ISH all-time draft thread

[AlternativeAcc.]

So? That's a much smaller sample size and you realize the spacing is still in effect because those shooters still get guarded even if they're bricking?

Except they weren't being guarded, go watch the tape. Giannis in the finals had atrocious spacing. Ayton camped in the paint all game. Had no reason to leave it.


You also didn't know Malone shot better on long 2s than MJ and peak Dirk. Got real quiet on that one. :lol

[iamgine]

Peja

C DRob
F KG
F PG13
G Curry
G Luka

G Jrue
C D. Howard
F Peja

[AlternativeAcc.]

Staring lineup would be this:

Kyrie / Derrick White
Klay / Eddie Jones
Bird
Giannis
Malone / Ewing

I do think Malone provides more optimal spacing than Ewing on offense. Better passer too. Has the size to guard big men 1on1 alongside Giannis as a weak-side rim protector where he thrives.

[ILLsmak]

Staring lineup would be this:

Kyrie / Derrick White
Klay / Eddie Jones
Bird
Giannis
Malone / Ewing

I do think Malone provides more optimal spacing than Ewing on offense. Better passer too. Has the size to guard big men 1on1 alongside Giannis as a weak-side rim protector where he thrives.

Mm malone is only good vs people he can push and slap ball from. Any big with touch will just shoot over him. Malone at c isn’t wrong but considering these are all time cs, he’d have a hard time. Imo of course.

-Smak

[DJMcDonald]

Now at this spot I WOULD pick TJ McConnell, its an absolute travesty hes dopped this far, but just to keep the 2000s theme of my team, I will select the Glove, who's basically a worse version of TJ.


https://youtu.be/P9ZFE0913xM?si=1ft34JZk06M7avSM

[DJMcDonald]

My final team:

Steve Nash
Vince Carter
Tracy McGrady
Dirk Nowitski
Shaquille O'Neal

Gary Payton
Andrei Kirilenko
Shawn Marion

[AlternativeAcc.]

Mm malone is only good vs people he can push and slap ball from. Any big with touch will just shoot over him. Malone at c isn’t wrong but considering these are all time cs, he’d have a hard time. Imo of course.

-Smak

Idk, he shut down peak Duncan and Yao at age 40. Gave D-Rob fits as well

Strong as hell, great hands, great rebounder. I think Giannis compliments him well on that end.

[1987_Lakers]

Idk, he shut down peak Duncan and Yao at age 40. Gave D-Rob fits as well

Strong as hell, great hands, great rebounder. I think Giannis compliments him well on that end.

We got the Giannis stopper


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HBX5HNM6cI

And the Edwards stopper if Manny wants to take him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmf54dcksmE&t

[1987_Lakers]

Found this tweet from 2023 season

Players FG% when guarded by OG Anunoby this season:

Shai Gilgeous A. — 37.5%
Kevin Durant — 33.3%
Kawhi Leonard — 33.3%
Domantas Sabonis — 33.3%
James Harden — 30.0%
Bam Adebayo — 25.0%
Joel Embiid — 16.7%
Bradley Beal — 16.7%
Anthony Edwards — 0.0%


:oldlol:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Lol, OG is a beast. I took him in our last draft.

But Malone would wreak havoc on Embiid. If Horford could give him fits, Malone definitely could.

[j3lademaster]

Something more recent

https://streamable.com/d3rnof

Giannis is easily the least skilled superstar ever. If he can't find success simply putting his head down and barreling into the defense just hoping for the best, he has no plan B.

edit: this isn't me saying he isn't a top caliber player worth a 2nd round pick, I just hate watching him.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Something more recent

https://streamable.com/d3rnof

Giannis is easily the least skilled superstar ever. If he can't find success simply putting his head down and barreling into the defense just hoping for the best, he has no plan B.

edit: this isn't me saying he isn't a top caliber player worth a 2nd round pick, I just hate watching him.

Bill Russell is the least skilled ever. Giannis is pretty unique because he's a big man but plays like a guard or wing. His ball handling, passing, and driving are far superior to big men of the past, he just lacks the traditional skill set.

[1987_Lakers]

Something more recent

https://streamable.com/d3rnof

Giannis is easily the least skilled superstar ever. If he can't find success simply putting his head down and barreling into the defense just hoping for the best, he has no plan B.

edit: this isn't me saying he isn't a top caliber player worth a 2nd round pick, I just hate watching him.

I've seen some old footage of Wilt and I gotta say some of his post moves looked pretty clumsy, but the NBA was in its early stages around that time, the skill in general for most players were not there yet. I've seen some footage of Dr. J and although he was a great athlete, his ball-handling seemed pretty bad.

[ILLsmak]

Idk, he shut down peak Duncan and Yao at age 40. Gave D-Rob fits as well

Strong as hell, great hands, great rebounder. I think Giannis compliments him well on that end.

He gave Drob a seizure haha. Drob doesn't know how to hold the ball up.

Look at who you are up against:

Jokic
Shaq
Hakeem
Kareem
Embiid (lol but he'd prol still work v Karl cuz he can shoot over)
Drob (depends on team, but in general, I think he'd do ok vs Malone for a whole game / series.)

I think your idea is to have Malone lean on people while Giannis comes over to help and contest, but I dunno how solid that is in practice when the front line consists of two all time greats. The only thing you can say is maybe Malone could flagrant some people and get them scared, but I dunno which one of those guys would get scared... maybe Embiid and Drob.

Edit: @ horford, dude is underrated as a defender and he has great shot blocking instincts. It's a little different. Malone isn't gonna jump at all. He's gonna hope he can strip you, but that's not something that will continually work.

-Smak

[Manny98]

With my last pick I'm picking Alex Caruso, a perfect complimentary role player who's arguably the best perimeter defender of this generation who also shot 40% from 3 point

Final team

PG: Billups
SG: Ray
SF: Pippen
PF: Porzingis
C: Jokic

Bench

Barkley
Manu
Caruso

[AlternativeAcc.]

Drob (depends on team, but in general, I think he'd do ok vs Malone for a whole game / series.)





-Smak

Malone destroyed Robinson in the playoffs on both ends.

But yeah, I mean, most of the guys mentioned are unstoppable anyways 1 on 1 regardless. But you're sleeping on Malones strength and IQ in the post. He would definitely bully Embiid.

[1987_Lakers]

I can make a realgm poll tomorrow morning if you guys want. Would do it now, but feeling tired.

[Im Still Ballin]

Bill Russell is the least skilled ever. Giannis is pretty unique because he's a big man but plays like a guard or wing. His ball handling, passing, and driving are far superior to big men of the past, he just lacks the traditional skill set.

Bill Russell was a strong ball-handler, passer, and roll-and-cut finisher. He unfortunately played in an era that suppressed those offensive strengths. He was forced to take a lot of jump shots and post-up isolation plays which weren't his strengths. It helps to explain his scoring efficiency.

He's a 75% FG guy at the rim according to a 500-possession tracking sample from RealGM poster Dipper 13. There just weren't many good opportunities to get there for a guy with Bill's archetype because of the clogged paint and restrictive rules regarding dribbling, carrying, traveling, and offensive fouls (offensive players weren't allowed to anywhere near as physical as they are now).

Offensively, Bill in the modern game is an elite rim-runner who can handle the ball and pass like Joakim/Dray and slash like Ben Simmons/Giannis. He would lead the break and get 4-8 ppg from that alone. Add that to 13-15 ppg from rolling, cutting, face-up slashing, sealing, and put-backs. Add 6-8 assists and you've got a legitimate DHO/short-roll passing hub.


Imagine this guy today attacking the spaced-out paint today. When he's allowed to handle the ball like it's a football and take an extra step. That's a 6'11" in shoes guy with a standing reach and arm length to match Shaq, Wilt, etc.

https://i.ibb.co/GQ8VhSL/8e66ab.gif
https://i.ibb.co/Fgqmy0H/8e67kz.gif
https://i.ibb.co/Jr7gNLJ/8e67r0.gif
https://i.ibb.co/0hFrfF9/8e6mq0.gif

The obvious modern comparisons regarding that combination of size, athleticism, and ball handling that spring to mind are Kevin Garnett, David Robinson, and Giannis.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVR7rU6CkmI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=iczA2u7-Wbs

[SouBeachTalents]

Guys I'm honestly pretty surprised weren't taken

Harden
Dame
Jaylen
Ant

[warriorfan]

Bill Russell was a strong ball-handler, passer, and roll-and-cut finisher. He unfortunately played in an era that suppressed those offensive strengths. He was forced to take a lot of jump shots and post-up isolation plays which weren't his strengths It helps to explain his scoring efficiency.

He's a 75% FG guy at the rim according to a 500-possession tracking sample from RealGM poster Dipper 13. There just weren't many good opportunities to get there for a guy with Bill's archetype because of the clogged paint and restrictive rules regarding dribbling, carrying, traveling, and offensive fouls (offensive players weren't allowed to anywhere near as physical as they are now).

Offensively, Bill in the modern game is an elite rim-runner who can handle the ball and pass like Joakim/Dray and slash like Ben Simmons/Giannis. He would lead the break and get 4-8 ppg from that alone. Add that to 13-15 ppg from rolling, cutting, face-up slashing, sealing, and put-backs. Add 6-8 assists and you've got a legitimate DHO/short-roll passing hub.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVR7rU6CkmI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=iczA2u7-Wbs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWelUNrJUMM
This is one is good. It’s slightly clunky but I think he polishes it up for sure if he was bright up today. And of course the athleticism is outlier tier.




Guys I'm honestly pretty surprised weren't taken

Harden
Dame
Jaylen
Ant

I don’t even know the teams really but if it’s all time draft….idk dame and harden are nice of course but they both have their weaknesses. And depending on who’s voting you might not get alot of love for those two, especially harden.

[Im Still Ballin]

Giannis and Bill have more in common than many would think. What do you think Antetokoumpo looks like in the '50s and '60s where he can't handle the ball like a football, take three steps, move laterally at all during those three steps, and shoulder charge guys?

https://i.ibb.co/9VtKFqZ/90tdia.gif

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWelUNrJUMM
This is one is good. It’s slightly clunky but I think he polishes it up for sure if he was bright up today. And of course the athleticism is outlier tier.

Prime Javale McGee could do this.

We done with the 60's!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t47--3XpTAo

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTkN2q6sUUk

[warriorfan]

Prime Javale McGee could do this.

We done with the 60's!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t47--3XpTAo
Javale is one of the most athletic players to ever pick up a basketball

comparing him to bill russell is just shooting whatever argument you are trying to make in the foot

do you even think before you post? you are a weird dude

[1987_Lakers]

Javale is one of the most athletic players to ever pick up a basketball

comparing him to bill russell is just shooting whatever argument you are trying to make in the foot

do you even think before you post? you are a weird dude

You are a weird dude for taking my post seriously.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Prime Javale McGee could do this.

We done with the 60's!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t47--3XpTAo

:roll:

I like Russell but for the guy to be such an athletic freak and still only manage like 14ppg on mediocre efficiency tells you he just wasn't skilled as a scorer. He should've been averaging 30 like wilt but severely lacked the coordination/fluidity with the basketball and touch. Just the type of stuff you can't teach.

[1987_Lakers]

Javale is one of the most athletic players to ever pick up a basketball

So along with KD, Klay, & Draymond. Curry had the benefit of playing with one of the most athletic players to ever pick up a basketball in Javale in 2017???

STACKED!!!

[warriorfan]

You are a weird dude for taking my post seriously.

When you post some pretty low iq shit all the time you can’t be shocked when someone doesn’t pick up on your “sarcasm”.


If you were an actual good poster who brought it legit all the time, yes it would click.


But tbh this was closer to your normal level of posting. I honestly couldn’t even tell you were trolling.



You flew too close to the sun, you partook in too much trolling, now you are nothing but a troll.

You made your bed. Now you gotta lie in it.

[Im Still Ballin]

Javale and Deandre are actually great size comparisons for Bill. But that's where it ends. Russell is on another level athletically; more like Hakeem/D-Robinson/Giannis/Kemp/Dwight/Amare. And skillset most comparable to Giannis regarding ball handling and passing.

[warriorfan]

So along with KD, Klay, & Draymond. Curry had the benefit of playing with one of the most athletic players to ever pick up a basketball in Javale in 2017???

STACKED!!!

Athleticism does not equal how good you are at basketball

I know this is your coping mechanism because you talked about how you were obese as a child, and now you are still under six feet tall.

You were doomed with very subpar athletic genetics, but that isn’t what held you back from playing. Theres other factors such as intelligence and work ethic (you didn’t have any of these either because if you did you wouldn’t of let yourself get obese in the first place)


To sum it up even if you had athletic genes you have low iq and work ethic so you still would have not even been able to make JV.

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.usatoday.com/gcdn/-mm-/8f99ea32d7cc75c75486775d08c552b4bb5bff5d/c=122-0-3757-2726/local/-/media/2017/11/21/USATODAY/usatsports/steph-curry-javale-mcgee.jpg

How much help does Curry need??

[1987_Lakers]

Athleticism does not equal how good you are at basketball

I know this is your coping mechanism because you talked about how you were obese as a child, and now you are still under six feet tall.

You were doomed with very subpar athletic genetics, but that isn’t what held you back from playing. Theres other factors such as intelligence and work ethic (you didn’t have any of these either because if you did you wouldn’t of let yourself get obese in the first place)


To sum it up even if you had athletic genes you have low iq and work ethic so you still would have not even been able to make JV.

Meltdown :oldlol:

Go ahead and rate the next thread I create one star like you have been doing for the past two months. Weirdo.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Meltdown :oldlol:

Go ahead and rate the next thread I create one star like you have been doing for the past two months. Weirdo.

:roll:

Are you sure it wasn't ballsout?

[warriorfan]

Meltdown :oldlol:

Go ahead and rate the next thread I create one star like you have been doing for the past two months. Weirdo.

Can you make some more insightful threads with more youtube videos like your “Is the moon a spaceship?”
(http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?507104-Have-any-of-you-guys-heard-the-theory-that-the-Moon-is-a-Spaceship)

Or maybe more requesting rape porn?
(http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?477431-The-Rape-Scene-in-High-Plains-Drifter)

I’ll be sure to upvote right away


:lol :roll:

[1987_Lakers]

:roll:

Are you sure it wasn't ballsout?

:roll:

[1987_Lakers]

https://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/003/659/207/hi-res-714d00162e9c84d848fd12d1b09d5090_crop_north.jpg?14 87042597&w=3072&h=2048

[Manny98]

Guys be honest how are you going to be able to handle these two on the same team

https://i.postimg.cc/DzMkHHwp/USATSI-9886189-e1517007687312.jpg

To go with that you got to deal with Allen and Billups lighting up from 3, Pippen & Caruso shutting down on the perimeter and Barkley and Manu killing your bench

The only team that kinda has me nervous is iamgine but I'm confident my guys can shut down Curry and I'm not sure his team has another go to guy with Curry neutralised

[1987_Lakers]

Guys be honest how are you going to be able to handle these two on the same team

https://i.postimg.cc/DzMkHHwp/USATSI-9886189-e1517007687312.jpg

To go with that you got to deal with Allen and Billups lighting up from 3, Pippen & Caruso shutting down on the perimeter and Barkley and Manu killing your bench

The only team that kinda has me nervous is iamgine but I'm confident my guys can shut down Curry and I'm not sure his team has another go to guy with Curry neutralised

imagine has a scary team, although I do think he fumbled his final pick. He has 3 guys, Luka, Curry, & Peja who are liabilities on defense.

[Manny98]

imagine has a scary team, although I do think he fumbled his final pick. He has 3 guys, Luka, Curry, & Peja who are liabilities on defense.

Shit I forgot he has Luka as well :facepalm

But he has KG,PG and Jrue Holiday to cover for their defensive weaknesses his team is damm near flawless

[1987_Lakers]

Shit I forgot he has Luka as well :facepalm

But he has KG,PG and Jrue Holiday to cover for their defensive weaknesses his team is damm near flawless

Not to mention D-Rob who is a top 5 defensive player ever in terms of impact. :lol

[AlternativeAcc.]

imagine has a scary team, although I do think he fumbled his final pick. He has 3 guys, Luka, Curry, & Peja who are liabilities on defense.

He will definitely get the most votes

The paul george pick put him over the top. He fell way too far.

[warriorfan]

Gine picks good teams.

One of the last ones it came down to me and him at the end. I blew it off the bat though, I had second to last pick and he had last pick, I tried to get cute and pick up shaq before curry and gine scooped him up while ignoring all my subsequent trade requests :lol

I was a bit busy for the draft but I’ll try to vote on things at least in the next few

[1987_Lakers]

Gine picks good teams.

One of the last ones it came down to me and him at the end. I blew it off the bat though, I had second to last pick and he had last pick, I tried to get cute and pick up shaq before curry and gine scooped him up while ignoring all my subsequent trade requests :lol

I was a bit busy for the draft but I’ll try to vote on things at least in the next few

https://media.tenor.com/Drt5XVPMyroAAAAM/we-don%27t-care.gif

[DJMcDonald]

Of all the greats of the game bro took Alex Caruso:roll:

[Manny98]

Of all the greats of the game bro took Alex Caruso:roll:

Do you realize there is only one basketball, I don't need another all time great I need a guy who can play without the ball and is willing to do all the grit hustle plays that don't show up on the stat sheet

Yes I could have picked a Clyde Drexler or a James Harden but what would be the point when I already have a sufficient amount of playmakers and stars on my team

Btw my team would blow yours out the building in the first quarter with that god awful starting lineup defense that would make D'antoni proud :roll:

[warriorfan]

While it is a bit of an extreme example, lil manny has a point.

I like his team too. Good balance of o and d and ball handling. He went all out on spacing to maximize Pippen which works. Good draft gameplan and good execution. I need to check out the other teams but I like where he’s coming from.

[DJMcDonald]

Btw my team would blow yours out the building in the first quarter with that god awful starting lineup defense that would make D'antoni proud :roll:

My starting lineup is the following:

Nash
Tmac
AK
Dirk
Shaq

Nash running the pick & roll/pop with Shaq/Dirk is outgunning any team, sorry little guy. Also Orlando Tmac was a 30PPG playmaker. Who exactly on your team can come anywhere close to matching my offensive firepower?

[Manny98]

My starting lineup is the following:

Nash
Tmac
AK
Dirk
Shaq

Nash running the pick & roll/pop with Shaq/Dirk is outgunning any team, sorry little guy. Also Orlando Tmac was a 30PPG playmaker. Who exactly on your team can come anywhere close to matching my offensive firepower?
I have the best offensive player of all time and the best shooter of all time, between Dirk,Nash,Shaq and McGrady you have absolutely zero defense in 4 out of 5 in your starting lineup

Jokic would completely dismantle your shit defense every single possession :lol

[DJMcDonald]

I have the best offensive player of all time and the best shooter of all time, between Dirk,Nash,Shaq and McGrady you have absolutely zero defense in 4 out of 5 in your starting lineup

Jokic would completely dismantle your shit defense every single possession :lol

Shaq and Dirk provide no defense? You have no idea what you're talking about. Nice Caruso pick :yaohappy:

[Manny98]

Shaq and Dirk provide no defense? You have no idea what you're talking about. Nice Caruso pick :yaohappy:
Shaq and Dirk aren't providing shit on the defensive end :roll:

You need athletic mobile guys that can switch in today's game

Imagine fielding Steve Nash, Shaq and Dirk at the same time and thinking you're going to get defensive stops against the teams we have on display here :roll:

[DJMcDonald]

Nash is the worst defender ever, Shaq would be a liability defending the pick and roll because he's not mobile enough if we're talking about 400 pounds Lakers Shaq, Dirk has never been known for his defense and McGrady is a shit defender as well

Everything you just said is wrong. Something tells me you've never seen Dirk or Tmac play. Who do you think Dirk was guarding when he was beating KG and Duncan in the playoffs:lol

And LA Shaq is a lot more mobile than Jokic is. That's the guy you want to guard MDE Shaq and you want to talk about my defensive liabilities? :lol

[Manny98]

This guy really trying to claim Dirk was some elite defender :oldlol:

I have zero defensive liabilities, Jokic has always been a plus defender, Denver were significantly worse defensively when he was off the floor

[DJMcDonald]

https://youtu.be/l2Znpf7nl_0?si=ONdvzOkCICdwee9R

This is a shit defender according to Manny:facepalm

[DJMcDonald]

This guy really trying to claim Dirk was some elite defender :oldlol:

I have zero defensive liabilities, Jokic has always been a plus defender, Denver were significantly worse defensively when he was off the floor

Watch a game for once you won't look so stupid

[Manny98]

McGrady is an elite defender now :roll:

[DJMcDonald]

I forgot I was speaking to a retard:roll:

[tpols]

Shaq and Dirk aren't providing shit on the defensive end :roll:

You need athletic mobile guys that can switch in today's game

Imagine fielding Steve Nash, Shaq and Dirk at the same time and thinking you're going to get defensive stops against the teams we have on display here :roll:


It honestly depends which version of Shaq he chooses. Younger, leaner mid 90s Orlando Shaq could move. He was a monster athlete. Shaq was a paint bully... when he tried he could lock down the most important part of the court.

Steve Nash was a poor defender but Luka is arguably even worse. Nash at least tried, Luka is literally just fat and lazy. So while iamigine does have a better defense because of his front court, his guards can be picked on. AK47 and young tmac before the back injuries could play serious defense as well.

The problem though is on the other side of the court. That Shaq Dirk inside out dynamic is far superior offensively to playoff Drob and KG. Shit... we saw Dirk light Garnetts squad up in the playoffs back in the early 2000s. And then he has Nash throwing oops and dimes to TMAC and Raptor Vince Carter and Shaq?

It would literally be a dunkathon. That team wouldn't rely on hot or cold 3pt spam. They would be dunking the ball over and over and over. With Dirk and Nash occasionally sniping.

[j3lademaster]

McGrady is an elite defender now :roll:He picked his spots, but he was a good defender when he wanted to be. Should be no surprise due to how gifted he is.

[j3lademaster]

It honestly depends which version of Shaq he chooses. Younger, leaner mid 90s Orlando Shaq could move. He was a monster athlete. Shaq was a paint bully... when he tried he could lock down the most important part of the court.

Steve Nash was a poor defender but Luka is arguably even worse. Nash at least tried, Luka is literally just fat and lazy. So while iamigine does have a better defense because of his front court, his guards can be picked on. AK47 and young tmac before the back injuries could play serious defense as well.

The problem though is on the other side of the court. That Shaq Dirk inside out dynamic is far superior offensively to playoff Drob and KG. Shit... we saw Dirk light Garnetts squad up in the playoffs back in the early 2000s. And then he has Nash throwing oops and dimes to TMAC and Raptor Vince Carter and Shaq?

It would literally be a dunkathon. That team wouldn't rely on hot or cold 3pt spam. They would be dunking the ball over and over and over. With Dirk and Nash occasionally sniping.Shaq was definitely the laziest defender of the bunch. He had no business being consistently beat by the primitive pnr’s 20-30 years ago especially with how much of an athletic beast he was. He was just incredibly lazy hedging and closing out on shooters, which goes from bad back then to a complete death sentence today. But if you ever come into the paint Shaq has that shit locked down. Offensively, hack a Shaq is more effective in a higher ppp environment since Shaq’s ppp shooting free throws are going to be fixed and you’re probably not running another elite rebounder next to him.

[tpols]

Shaq was definitely the laziest defender of the bunch. He had no business being consistently beat by the primitive pnr’s 20-30 years ago especially with how much of an athletic beast he was. He was just incredibly lazy hedging and closing out on shooters, which goes from bad back then to a complete death sentence today. But if you ever come into the paint Shaq has that shit locked down. Offensively, hack a Shaq is more effective in a higher ppp environment since Shaq’s ppp shooting free throws are going to be fixed and you’re probably not running another elite rebounder next to him.


Yea a lot of that is true about Shaq, but I just don't see how anybody is guarding him on the other end. He straight up required a double in his prime pretty much every time, and it usually came from the opposing teams power forward. So what does a defense do when Dirk is the PF? They cant possibly double with Dirks man. And hack a Shaq with an 8 man roster is going to foul out your big men real quick. With that type of dynamic Shaq is going to be slam dunking in single coverage all day or Dirk is going to be taking wide open 3s. I don't really see a great defensive counter to this.

[1987_Lakers]

Thread is up

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2401477

[j3lademaster]

Yea a lot of that is true about Shaq, but I just don't see how anybody is guarding him on the other end. He straight up required a double in his prime pretty much every time, and it usually came from the opposing teams power forward. So what does a defense do when Dirk is the PF? They cant possibly double with Dirks man. And hack a Shaq with an 8 man roster is going to foul out your big men real quick. With that type of dynamic Shaq is going to be slam dunking in single coverage all day or Dirk is going to be taking wide open 3s. I don't really see a great defensive counter to this.
No one’s stopping early 2000’s mde Shaq, but the closest to ever containing him on a regular basis was Yao. He’d overpower Yao and get to the basket, but Yao would still bother him with his length especially when he doesn’t even have to leave the floor and made Shaq uncomfortable on the other end having to close out on his automatic shooting. Duncan was probably the best Shaq defender but did have help from oldman admiral in the earlier years.

Playoffs:

Shaq | 22.4 PTS 12.8 REB 2.2 AST 0.7 STL 2.8 BLK on 54.2% TS (Career 24.3 PTS on 56.5% TS)

Duncan | 25.6 PTS 13.0 REB 3.8 AST 0.9 STL 2.4 BLK on 54.7% TS (Career 20.6 PTS on 54.8% TS)

Regular Season Record: Shaq 18-14 Duncan

Playoffs Record: Shaq 15-15 Duncan

The stats are more even when you consider 5 games are old Suns Shaqtus, but the other 25 games were between rookie TD and 2004.

I’m hoping with Duncan and Wemby being able to replicate Yao’s length at the rim we can slow down Shaq ENOUGH to win.

[dankok8]

I've been watching a lot of Orlando Shaq and tracking his games lately. He's actually kind of much worse on defense than I thought. He commits bad fouls including when he's in foul trouble and isn't as lazy in rotating as he just makes poor rotations. He frequently gets on islands on the perimeter when he should be in the paint. When he's vertical in the paint waiting for someone to come at him, he's very good at protecting the rim and he's a good post defender (like say vs. Hakeem in the 95 Finals he was playing good defense) but generally it's hard for me to see Orlando Shaq as even much of a positive on D. The 2000 or 2001 version is much better on defense. Fouls less, crashes the defensive glass more, stays in the paint and makes smarter rotations. Like a tier ahead easily.

[Wally450]

Bill Russell was a strong ball-handler, passer, and roll-and-cut finisher. He unfortunately played in an era that suppressed those offensive strengths. He was forced to take a lot of jump shots and post-up isolation plays which weren't his strengths. It helps to explain his scoring efficiency.

He's a 75% FG guy at the rim according to a 500-possession tracking sample from RealGM poster Dipper 13. There just weren't many good opportunities to get there for a guy with Bill's archetype because of the clogged paint and restrictive rules regarding dribbling, carrying, traveling, and offensive fouls (offensive players weren't allowed to anywhere near as physical as they are now).

Offensively, Bill in the modern game is an elite rim-runner who can handle the ball and pass like Joakim/Dray and slash like Ben Simmons/Giannis. He would lead the break and get 4-8 ppg from that alone. Add that to 13-15 ppg from rolling, cutting, face-up slashing, sealing, and put-backs. Add 6-8 assists and you've got a legitimate DHO/short-roll passing hub.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVR7rU6CkmI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=iczA2u7-Wbs

Great post! :applause:

[Carbine]

I've been watching a lot of Orlando Shaq and tracking his games lately. He's actually kind of much worse on defense than I thought. He commits bad fouls including when he's in foul trouble and isn't as lazy in rotating as he just makes poor rotations. He frequently gets on islands on the perimeter when he should be in the paint. When he's vertical in the paint waiting for someone to come at him, he's very good at protecting the rim and he's a good post defender (like say vs. Hakeem in the 95 Finals he was playing good defense) but generally it's hard for me to see Orlando Shaq as even much of a positive on D. The 2000 or 2001 version is much better on defense. Fouls less, crashes the defensive glass more, stays in the paint and makes smarter rotations. Like a tier ahead easily.

It's very clear to anyone willing to educate themselves. Orlando Shaq was missing a lot of intangibles, the small details in his game. He got by on his true 1 of 1 physical talent and strength.

2000 was the first time he acquired everything. He was much better at the little things, his dedication to defense was on point and just his overall mentality. I believe this was the ONLY year he put everything together in all facets of the game consistently.

[dankok8]

It's very clear to anyone willing to educate themselves. Orlando Shaq was missing a lot of intangibles, the small details in his game. He got by on his true 1 of 1 physical talent and strength.

2000 was the first time he acquired everything. He was much better at the little things, his dedication to defense was on point and just his overall mentality. I believe this was the ONLY year he put everything together in all facets of the game consistently.

I agree but I think his 2001 playoffs is just as good as 2000 but he mailed it in during the regular season.

[DJMcDonald]

Thread is up

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2401477

As expected, manny's team is laughed out of the room

[Manny98]

As expected, manny's team is laughed out of the room

Yeah because I value so much the opinions of a bunch of dweebs who have never touched a basketball

[ILLsmak]

Malone destroyed Robinson in the playoffs on both ends.

But yeah, I mean, most of the guys mentioned are unstoppable anyways 1 on 1 regardless. But you're sleeping on Malones strength and IQ in the post. He would definitely bully Embiid.

I dunno. I know what he brings. It would be a trade off for sure. I was watching some Malone stuff last night for fun after thinking about this. Dude is definitely solid on offense, but I dunno if I'd take Malone at C over someone like Amare (low key surprised nobody picked him, also.) Amare was not a good defender, but he could play C. I just really dunno if Malone could play C even though he did guard Cs sometimes. His ability to hurt people is underrated, but yeah he's strong and he will punish your hands/wrists with slaps, but against someone who can block him off with his body like a center should, it would be BBQ always. You'd think that he might get a few stops (Malone was also smart at pulling the chair,) but facing him over time, they would adapt.

Also remember whenever Malone guarded some other player, he was still at PF. He had a big body like Shaq (v Duncan) or Ostertag or Eaton.

I think it would be an interesting look to use, but I don't think I'd be like... like say you put it up on realgm that you were gonna start Malone at C, I think it would be like ehhh. Who knows, I haven't looked yet, maybe they did put it that way.

I remember when jeff would ban people for posting real gm haha, rip ish!

Edit: just looked. Rip team 8 also. **** these bummies and their votes. Plus, you don't decide which is better, you put them vs each other in a playoff. Aiyee.

-Smak

[SouBeachTalents]

I think we all expected iamgine to win, but damn, that poll got like no votes :lol Definitely not enough of a sample size to determine how the rest of the teams stack up.

[DJMcDonald]

Yeah because I value so much the opinions of a bunch of dweebs who have never touched a basketball

You are the dweeb for picking Caruso:lol

[tpols]

Based on the comments so far imagine, DJ, and Dank are the clear top contenders here.

Some of the comments are hilarious...:lol it is true... how people have a bias towards today's players taking them over literal past legends. Alex Caruso over Clyde Drexler. Sidney Moncrief and Moses undrafted.

RRR3 shitting on the Kobe Chris Paul Kareem team and even realGM picking them when they're known Kobe haters.

I'm pretty sure that forum also has Garnett as like the GOAT so I'm not surprised they love iamgines team. He wasn't GOAT in the playoffs though.

[Manny98]

The poll doesn't mean shit, this is the same place that thinks Kevin Garnett is the GOAT nobody takes those idiots seriously and barely anyone voted

Reddit would have been a better choice imo

Honestly never met anyone in real life that uses real GM, bunch of caveman idiots who have never played a competitive sport

[DJMcDonald]

The poll doesn't mean shit, this is the same place that thinks Kevin Garnett is the GOAT nobody takes those idiots seriously and barely anyone voted

Reddit would have been a better choice imo

Honestly never met anyone in real life that uses real GM, bunch of caveman idiots who have never played a competitive sport

Who do you think is a better defender? Ray Allen or Tracy McGrady?

Just saw your team laid out and realized how atrocious it is.

[1987_Lakers]

I actually like Manny’s team. I thought he got off to a weird start after he selected Jokic, but he finished the draft strong drafting some nice defensive/shooting pieces.

[John8204]

Do you realize there is only one basketball, I don't need another all time great I need a guy who can play without the ball and is willing to do all the grit hustle plays that don't show up on the stat sheet

Yes I could have picked a Clyde Drexler or a James Harden but what would be the point when I already have a sufficient amount of playmakers and stars on my team

Btw my team would blow yours out the building in the first quarter with that god awful starting lineup defense that would make D'antoni proud :roll:

Yeah but you had other options...Grant Hill, Chris Webber, Bobby Jones, Sidney Moncrief, Rajan Rondo, Michael Cooper, and Tony Allen

[Manny98]

I actually like Manny’s team. I thought he got off to a weird start after he selected Jokic, but he finished the draft strong drafting some nice defensive/shooting pieces.

Somebody gets it :cheers:

[Manny98]

Yeah but you had other options...Grant Hill, Chris Webber, Bobby Jones, Sidney Moncrief, Rajan Rondo, Michael Cooper, and Tony Allen

None of those guys fit the role I need

I guess next time I will have to dumb my thought process down and just go for the best players available

[DJMcDonald]

I actually like Manny’s team. I thought he got off to a weird start after he selected Jokic, but he finished the draft strong drafting some nice defensive/shooting pieces.

Very interesting. Of all the teams drafted, who has the worst?

[j3lademaster]

Who do you think is a better defender? Ray Allen or Tracy McGrady?

Just saw your team laid out and realized how atrocious it is.
When they’re at their best, tmac for sure. Allen gave a more consistent effort though

[j3lademaster]

The poll doesn't mean shit, this is the same place that thinks Kevin Garnett is the GOAT nobody takes those idiots seriously and barely anyone voted

Reddit would have been a better choice imo

Honestly never met anyone in real life that uses real GM, bunch of caveman idiots who have never played a competitive sport

I do think we should put it on reddit for a larger sample size though I think iamgine still wins. It was honestly over when we let drob fall to him. And we need to reevaluate Curry’s top 10 and top 5 worthiness. A lot of ppl have fixed top 10 lists because they’re afraid they’ll get laughed at for silly basketball opinions that affect their real life 0%

[AlternativeAcc.]

Baffling how many people don't understand the idea of complementary skill sets.

There's a reason why Derrick White got more minutes in the Olympics than Tatum and Haliburton, and a guy like OG Anunoby had insane impact as a role player.

The comments about "yeah but what about these other high usage guys and non-shooters!" are from a misguided place of not understanding basketball.

[DJMcDonald]

When they’re at their best, tmac for sure. Allen gave a more consistent effort though

:roll:

[ArbitraryWater]

I have the best offensive player of all time and the best shooter of all time, between Dirk,Nash,Shaq and McGrady you have absolutely zero defense in 4 out of 5 in your starting lineup

Jokic would completely dismantle your shit defense every single possession :lol


Eh, "i have better defenders" is kind of a difficult take in these H2H match-ups.


Whos stopping Dirk Nash Shaq? Theyre still outscoring you, regardless of their defense being a bit lower than yours.

[ArbitraryWater]

IMO:

Team 1 and 7 are the best.

Team 3 and 6 are the worst.

Rest inbetween.


I voted Team 7.

[Manny98]

Eh, "i have better defenders" is kind of a difficult take in these H2H match-ups.


Whos stopping Dirk Nash Shaq? Theyre still outscoring you, regardless of their defense being a bit lower than yours.
A bit lower :oldlol:

He has the worst defence out of everyone

[Manny98]

Baffling how many people don't understand the idea of complementary skill sets.

There's a reason why Derrick White got more minutes in the Olympics than Tatum and Haliburton, and a guy like OG Anunoby had insane impact as a role player.

The comments about "yeah but what about these other high usage guys and non-shooters!" are from a misguided place of not understanding basketball.
Agreed people just see the big names and thinks that means they have the better team

Sad really I thought Real GM were more intelligent than that

[warriorfan]

I havnt been trolling when saying this place has higher iq than realGM now.

Kinda crazy how that all worked out.

[ArbitraryWater]

A bit lower :oldlol:

He has the worst defence out of everyone

And its worth nothing, hes still gonna cook his match-up more than you do him.

[ArbitraryWater]

Rules for the draft

1. Only players from 1980 and beyond will be eligible. If you picked a player who peaked in the 70's, you have to use the 80's version of them
2. Jordan & LeBron are not eligible for this draft
3. We're drafting 8 players per team
4. Considering our different time zones, I think 8 hours between picks is fair

This is the order the randomizer provided

Manny98
DJMcDonald
iamgine
SouBeachTalents
AlternativeAcc
dankok8
j3lademaster
1987_Lakers

While I think 6:00 PM EST is more than fair, I'll give Manny a little leeway since this board is from the late 90's and doesn't have PM's, so I can't notify the other posters the draft has started.


I dont get it, according to this order and the teams, Mannys team is team 1.

[j3lademaster]

:roll:

You don't think Ray Allen played harder than Tmac on the defensive end? Tmac often times would do just enough to get by, and he was so talented that he was a plus defender doing so. We all saw what he can do when he applies himself, he was able to shut down Dirk in a series where Nowitzski only broke 20 ppg on 35% shooting because he was feasting on Ryan Bowen.

[DJMcDonald]

I dont get it, according to this order and the teams, Mannys team is team 1.

Yea idk why he randomized the numbers on realgm.

[DJMcDonald]

You don't think Ray Allen played harder than Tmac on the defensive end? Tmac often times would do just enough to get by, and he was so talented that he was a plus defender doing so. We all saw what he can do when he applies himself, he was able to shut down Dirk in a series where Nowitzski only broke 20 ppg on 35% shooting because he was feasting on Ryan Bowen.

I remember in Milwaukee and Seattle he would refuse to fight over screens and constantly ball watch, for the athlete he was, he was a remarkably bad defender. Saying he put effort on that end is more asinine then selecting Caruso in an all time draft. In marquee match ups TMac would guard superstars whereas Allen couldn't give a damn

[DJMcDonald]

Curry gets a lot of flack for being a bad defender, but he's a better one than Allen ever was.

[gbaLL]

eagle

loc
we$t$ide
cripwalk
pcp
fly away

[Wally450]

Looking at the Real GM thread, I like Team 1 the most, but I also really like the team with Kobe, Pierce and KAJ.

[dankok8]

Other than my own team which is Team 5, I'd go with Team 7 which is imagine. But honestly I think I would beat him in a 7-game series. Luka at PG would give CP3 some trouble so I might play the Doctor more minutes and stick him on Luka. But honestly both Luka and Curry would struggle mightily on D having to defend CP3, Kobe, or Dr J however he would match them up.

[Manny98]

Curry gets a lot of flack for being a bad defender, but he's a better one than Allen ever was.

No he ****ing wasn't :facepalm

[SouBeachTalents]

McGrady was actually a very good defender in Toronto, so he had the capability, he just had to dial it back in Orlando carrying a garbage squad. As someone posted earlier, he did a really good job on Dirk in their matchup in '05.

Allen was never a notable defender in his prime years, but he actually did play solid defense in Boston, helping keep Kobe in check during their Finals matchups.

[DJMcDonald]

No he ****ing wasn't :facepalm

0 out of 29 votes:yaohappy:

[RRR3]

0 out of 29 votes:yaohappy:
:roll: :roll: :roll:


MAHNEEEEEEEEEEE

[Im Still Ballin]

Great post! :applause:

He was an athletic beast. Here's old arthritic Bill in his last game beating everyone down the court, including Wilt.

https://i.ibb.co/d2gK9d8/90y7jl.gif

[Im Still Ballin]

That's the fourth quarter of game 7 of the NBA Finals BTW. Played all 48 minutes.

[Carbine]

I like team 3 the most I think. The one with KD off the bench.

It has the most roster versatility.

I do like Jokic team as well because I think he's just that good to the point where he elevates everyone to be their best versions. I think that team just fits together and the "brand" of ball would be great to watch, ala Spurs of early to mid 2010s

[1987_Lakers]

I like team 3 the most I think. The one with KD off the bench.

It has the most roster versatility.

Thanks.

It's easy to build a team with straight offense in these drafts, but my objective was to have a team with a little bit of everything, most importantly defense & shooting. I feel like Kawhi-OG-Draymond could guard any position from 2-4 and do it at a high level. Booker showed in the Olympics he can be a high caliber 3 & D role player playing with stars. & Mutombo is probably a top 5 defensive player ever in terms of impact. In reality, a team only needs 2-3 superstar scorers in these drafts.

[Phoenix]

McGrady was actually a very good defender in Toronto, so he had the capability, he just had to dial it back in Orlando carrying a garbage squad. As someone posted earlier, he did a really good job on Dirk in their matchup in '05.

.

TMac came into the league a defensive player more or less.

[tpols]

Other than my own team which is Team 5, I'd go with Team 7 which is imagine. But honestly I think I would beat him in a 7-game series. Luka at PG would give CP3 some trouble so I might play the Doctor more minutes and stick him on Luka. But honestly both Luka and Curry would struggle mightily on D having to defend CP3, Kobe, or Dr J however he would match them up.

Iamgines team is getting overrated imo. David Robinson shrunk in the playoffs at the highest level of competition comparatively and Shaq / Dirk were better playoff performers than Garnett. Paul George was also gifted the meme nickname "playoff P" for a reason... dudes game fell off a lot for many years in the playoffs. You can't say that about any of the players on DJs team except maybe Tmac... but even he still produced individually, it's just that he was on shit teams.

And then there's also the fact that Luka is the most ball dominant player ever which isn't going to be conducive to great ball movement or chemistry on a super team. Nashs squads OTOH were not only the best team offenses in the NBA for many years in a row, they had the #1 assist rank as well, something Luka has never done.

[1987_Lakers]

Other than my own team which is Team 5, I'd go with Team 7 which is imagine. But honestly I think I would beat him in a 7-game series. Luka at PG would give CP3 some trouble so I might play the Doctor more minutes and stick him on Luka. But honestly both Luka and Curry would struggle mightily on D having to defend CP3, Kobe, or Dr J however he would match them up.

Nah, you would get stomped. You have high end talent, but the fit would be weird in today's league. A team with CP3, Kobe, McHale, & Kareem would cause some chemistry issues because all of these guys need to dribble for long periods of time to create some offense. And Kobe's ego will not let him take a lesser role on offense. Kareem & McHale would be a weird fit in today's league, although it would crush in the 80's & 90's. Dr. J brings nice scoring off the bench, but he doesn't provide shooting, Glen Rice is an elite shooter, but a shitty defender.

I like Imagine's team because although Luka is very ball dominant, Curry doesn't need the ball in his hands compared to other stars. Same with KG. D-Rob was a super nice guy, he would accept a lesser role on offense while still giving you ATG defense. Only weakness on his team is his starting backcourt would be feasted on when defending, but D-Rob & KG would erase alot of those defensive breakdowns.

[dankok8]

Nah, you would get stomped. You have high end talent, but the fit would be weird in today's league. A team with CP3, Kobe, McHale, & Kareem would cause some chemistry issues because all of these guys need to dribble for long periods of time to create some offense. And Kobe's ego will not let him take a lesser role on offense. Kareem & McHale would be a weird fit in today's league, although it would crush in the 80's & 90's. Dr. J brings nice scoring off the bench, but he doesn't provide shooting, Glen Rice is an elite shooter, but a shitty defender.

I like Imagine's team because although Luka is very ball dominant, Curry doesn't need the ball in his hands compared to other stars. Same with KG. D-Rob was a super nice guy, he would accept a lesser role on offense while still giving you ATG defense. Only weakness on his team is his starting backcourt would be feasted on when defending, but D-Rob & KG would erase alot of those defensive breakdowns.

Ya his team is great but he would have more trouble defending me than vice versa. Like I said the only issue is CP3 guarding Luka on my end. He would need Luka/Curry to guard CP3/Kobe/Dr J. That would not go well even with KG and Rob down low. By the way I remember in one old draft, I also had a KG/Rob frontcourt so I love his team from that standpoint too lol.

Fit depends on coaching and tactics. CP3 would run the offense and the ball would go inside to Kareem and McHale and then out. Kobe would take open shots or attack mismatches (hello Curry). CP3 and 2008 Pierce shot 40% from 3pt range (higher on open threes) and would let them splash if the ball came out.

[1987_Lakers]

Ya his team is great but he would have more trouble defending me than vice versa. Like I said the only issue is CP3 guarding Luka on my end. He would need Luka/Curry to guard CP3/Kobe/Dr J. That would not go well even with KG and Rob down low. By the way I remember in one old draft, I also had a KG/Rob frontcourt so I love his team from that standpoint too lol.

Fit depends on coaching and tactics. CP3 would run the offense and the ball would go inside to Kareem and McHale and then out. Kobe would take open shots or attack mismatches (hello Curry). CP3 and 2008 Pierce shot 40% from 3pt range (higher on open threes) and would let them splash if the ball came out.

From top to bottom, you have a better defensive team. I just feel the fit is better on his end. Good luck getting the ball back from McHale once he receives a pass in the post. :lol

If you replaced Kobe with someone like Klay, I would like your team alot better. He would give you better shooting, isn't a high usage player, & provides good defense. There is no need for a Kobe with a team like this.

[dankok8]

From top to bottom, you have a better defensive team. I just feel the fit is better on his end. Good luck getting the ball back from McHale once he receives a pass in the post. :lol

If you replaced Kobe with someone like Klay, I would like your team alot better. He would give you better shooting, isn't a high usage player, & provides good defense. There is no need for a Kobe with a team like this.

Kobe with low usage can play as good if not better D than Klay. Klay is only a better spot up 3pt shooter. Kobe literally does everything else on offense better.

[RRR3]

Kobe with low usage can play as good if not better D than Klay. Klay is only a better spot up 3pt shooter. Kobe literally does everything else on offense better.
Doesn't exist. Kobe forced Steve Nash of all people to be a spot up shooter, it wasn't that long ago, we remember.

[tpols]

Kobe with low usage can play as good if not better D than Klay. Klay is only a better spot up 3pt shooter. Kobe literally does everything else on offense better.

Kobe on the Redeem team made it a point to take the toughest cover on defense every single game. And had no problem sacrificing offensive energy to do it. Even though he closed out the championship game on offense anyway to bring USA back the Gold Medal.

There's a reason realGM voted that team as a top candidate along with imagine and DJ.

[RRR3]

Kobe on the Redeem team made it a point to take the toughest cover on defense every single game. And had no problem sacrificing offensive energy to do it. There's a reason realGM voted that team as a top candidate along with imagine and DJ.
He also made it a point to chuck up bricks instead of passing it to his more efficient teammates.

[dankok8]

He also made it a point to chuck up bricks instead of passing it to his more efficient teammates.

If Kobe was such a bad player how did he lead so many great offenses post-Shaq?

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe on the Redeem team made it a point to take the toughest cover on defense every single game. And had no problem sacrificing offensive energy to do it. Even though he closed out the championship game on offense anyway to bring USA back the Gold Medal.

There's a reason realGM voted that team as a top candidate along with imagine and DJ.

That’s a misconception. Kobe had the most shot attempts on that team while taking a “lesser role”. :lol

At the end of the day he couldn’t help himself. I believe Kobe is at his best with another superstar who isn’t ball-dominant. I think his value drops on a team filled with stars.

[AlternativeAcc.]

That’s a misconception. Kobe had the most shot attempts on that team while taking a “lesser role”. :lol

At the end of the day he couldn’t help himself. I believe Kobe is at his best with another superstar who isn’t ball-dominant. I think his value drops on a team filled with stars.

Agree with this. Kobe in any situation is gonna demand a lot of touches with average playmaking and below average IQ. Not good for team synergy or efficiency. Defensively he'd be very solid though.

[SouBeachTalents]

That’s a misconception. Kobe had the most shot attempts on that team while taking a “lesser role”. :lol

At the end of the day he couldn’t help himself. I believe Kobe is at his best with another superstar who isn’t ball-dominant. I think his value drops on a team filled with stars.
Yep, took THIRTY FOUR more shots than Wade only to score 8 less points :lol

[j3lademaster]

Yep, took THIRTY FOUR more shots than Wade only to score 8 less points :lol

For what it’s worth, I felt like your team was way underrated mainly due to AD and Wade getting underrated. Wade being able to shoot 67% while leading the redeem team in scoring and at the same time being their best perimeter defender shows he can conform to a multiple superstar setting(if Heatles wasn’t proof enough but he was old for most of that era). Wade can punch way above his weight class in terms of players he can guard, and between him, AD, and Hakeem you have 3 guys who can each switch everything defensively while being 30 ppg capable on their own teams. They aren’t shooting anyone off the court, but all 3 shoot well enough to keep the defense honest.

[SouBeachTalents]

For what it’s worth, I felt like your team was way underrated mainly due to AD and Wade getting underrated. Wade being able to shoot 67% while leading the redeem team in scoring and at the same time being their best perimeter defender shows he can conform to a multiple superstar setting(if Heatles wasn’t proof enough but he was old for most of that era). Wade can punch way above his weight class in terms of players he can guard, and between him, AD, and Hakeem you have 3 guys who can each switch everything defensively while being 30 ppg capable on their own teams. They aren’t shooting anyone off the court, but all 3 shoot well enough to keep the defense honest.
Honestly, I feel like my team was very well constructed. Wade/AD/Hakeem as my core 3, all elite two way players, Tatum providing additional scoring, defense & spacing, Price providing shooting and playmaking, Butler off the bench, and two other HOF's who fit in nicely in Dumars & Bosh. Only one vote to show for it though :lol

I do think a reddit thread would've been good as well.

[RRR3]

If Kobe was such a bad player how did he lead so many great offenses post-Shaq?
Who said he was bad? Not very useful playing with other ball dominant perimeter players though.

[Im Still Ballin]

If Kobe was such a bad player how did he lead so many great offenses post-Shaq?

Woke.

Kobe's style of play (off-ball, late shot-clock tough shot-making) was often conducive to a lower team turnover percentage and higher team offensive rebounding percentage. So, even when eFG% and FTr were lower, LA could still produce efficient offense.

LA 05-13: +2.61 rORtg
LA 97-04: +4.2 rORtg

Two-year peak:

- 08+09: +5.0 rORtg
- 98+99: +6.15 rORtg (lock-out shortened season)
- 01+02: +5.15 rORtg

A not-so-steep drop-off considering the lack of offensive talent in comparison.

[RRR3]

Woke.

Kobe's style of play (off-ball, late shot-clock tough shot-making) was often conducive to a lower team turnover percentage and higher team offensive rebounding percentage. So, even when eFG% and FTr were lower, LA could still produce efficient offense.

LA 05-13: +2.61 rORtg
LA 97-04: +4.2 rORtg

Two-year peak:

- 08+09: +5.0 rORtg
- 98+99: +6.15 rORtg (lock-out shortened season)
- 01+02: +5.15 rORtg

A not-so-steep drop-off considering the lack of offensive talent in comparison.
Weird giving him credit for the Shaq years when you yourself pointed out their record was bad when Shaq didn't play and Kobe did but still elite when Shaq played and Kobe didn't. But I know you're just moving from opinion to opinion to stir up shit as you always do.

[Im Still Ballin]

Weird giving him credit for the Shaq years when you yourself pointed out their record was bad when Shaq didn't play and Kobe did but still elite when Shaq played and Kobe didn't. But I know you're just moving from opinion to opinion to stir up shit as you always do.

You're not really making sense here. I'm giving credit to Kobe for the years without Shaq.

[RRR3]

You're not really making sense here. I'm giving credit to Kobe for the years without Shaq.
You included years with Shaq. Your favorite stat RAPM is extremely low on Kobe btw...He grades out as a Kyrie level player

[Im Still Ballin]

You included years with Shaq.
As a comparison...

[RRR3]

As a comparison...
That wasn't made clear.

[warriorfan]

rrr3 is a low iq psychopath

:roll:

[RRR3]

Not my Godbe. NOT MY GODBEEEE!!!!!! :cry:
:lol

[warriorfan]

you are f.ucking weird bro

[RRR3]

You made an alt for the sole purpose of harassing me and another poster, but yeah I'm the weird one.

[Im Still Ballin]

Basketball is more than "how many three points shooters you have", but having them in today's era keeps defenders honest. In today's league if you run any line-up that lack shooters defenses will exploit that, they will just key in on the star players without facing much consequences. And with all due respect to ISB, he ran a Shaq-Russell lineup in one of our previous drafts. I pointed out to him that having Russell play the 4 takes away some of his rim protection and it makes life harder for Shaq on offense since teams could zero in on Shaq since Russell wouldn't provide you any spacing. After the draft, when we ran the poll on realgm multiple users pointed out the same thing when evaluating his team.

Just responding to this now. Took me a while to find the thread with the entire teams listed from that all-time draft. I think it's important to look at the entire roster of a team, not just two players. I'm sure everyone would agree.

I believe the stipulation was for today's rules. Here's the team I drafted:


Shaquille O'Neal - Patrick Ewing
Bill Russell - Karl Malone
Scottie Pippen - Shane Battier
Reggie Miller - Michael Cooper
Steve Nash - Mark Price

I built a team that's heavy on strengths, fully aware that many would question the surface-level fit of O'Neal and Russell. It's also why I overloaded my guard rotation with superb shooters and playmakers. I took inspiration from GSW's two non-shooters with an all-time shooting back-court approach.

I think the Russell-O'Neal tandem works. What made Russell unique for his time was his mobile help defense, which he described as his horizontal game.


Here’s what former teammate Bill Sharman said about him in the 1967 documentary “Year to Remember:”


“Russell, who is a little quicker than [Wilt Chamberlain or Nate Thurmond], will go to the corners, block a shot or get back underneath and get the big rebound or again pick up the cutter.”

He could cover just about any opponent in front of him; here he is switching on to Oscar and then West, completely disrupting both:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB1CQsJFzeY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4emk4l18ePg

He absolutely could and would thrive defensively playing the PF position similar to Garnett, Giannis, Draymond, and Davis. The role requires exceptional mobility to quickly roam, provide help defense, and recover. It also demands versatility to switch and defend guards and forwards out on the perimeter.

Bill has all the tools required: A+ positional size, freakish athleticism and mobility, defensive awareness/instinct/IQ, and a GOAT-level high-revving motor.

[Im Still Ballin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhEVmb6yVns


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SQAOaBkl1Y

Seeing as how we selected players at their peaks in the all-time draft, I get 1999-00 Shaq. This was the only season he was really engaged and intelligent on defense. 1999-00 LA had the #1 defense and a very strong -5.9 rDRtg; Shaq finished third in DPOY and made the All-Defense 2nd Team.

I'm very confident Russell and O'Neal would be a dominant defensive tandem.

In the modern era, I'd liken the stylistic combination to Giannis Antetokoumpo and Brook Lopez: a mobile, hyper-athletic PF and a shot-blocking drop-coverage center. Milwaukee had a generationally strong defense in 2019-20, posting a -7.7 rDRtg.

The offense is where I'll lose most people but I believe it would work. And I think this for three reasons:

1) Bill's offensive strengths (ball handling, passing, roll-and-cut finishing, face-up slashing, offensive rebounding) translate very well to today's league.
2) My guard rotation is overloaded with elite shooters and playmakers.
3) I don't believe in rigid rules/false narratives regarding shooting and spacing.

I see Russell functioning as a bigger Draymond in my team. He'd operate as the primary screener for Nash and Price, working in the short-roll/fake hand-off secondary delay actions while Shaq moves off-ball in the dunker's spot and the low-post.

O'Neal was a fantastic post-up player but he was an even better finisher around the basket. He'd feast with all the lobs, dump-offs, and cuts.

I also like Russell and O'Neal passing out of the high post and doing pinch-post actions with Nash and Price while the other sets screens off-ball for Reggie. Russell's high-low passes to O'Neal from the high post would be brutally effective. Shaq was great at passing out of the low post, and Russell would preoccupy the help defense on the weak side by screening for shooters and cutting off those actions.

I don't think Russell and O'Neal would get in the way of each other nearly as much as people would think. And if anything, Russell's uninterest in scoring works well with O'Neal, who loves to. Bill's not taking shots away from Shaq. That's a plus.

This idea that you absolutely need a specific amount of shooters on the floor is false. There have been many high-performing lineups in recent years with multiple non-shooters. I thought the Warriors made this clear to everyone but apparently not. Here are some examples:

(NBA.com and Basketball Reference lineup numbers vary slightly. This is due to a different possession formula I believe)

https://i.ibb.co/brWMWvG/imagelineups1.png

Even in Shaq's last season, he was part of the best starting lineup during the regular season. It featured two non-shooters (O'Neal + Rondo):

https://i.ibb.co/s2FnSDk/BDj2n-OZ-d.webp

I still back my selections looking at my team from this all-time draft. My starting lineup just has too many strengths and the fit concerns are overblown. My bench gives me lineup, matchup, and scheme flexibility.

[Im Still Ballin]

Also forgot to include GSW's 2022-23 starting lineup. Featuring two non-shooters (Green, Looney), it was statistically far and away the best starting five in the NBA.


2023: S. Curry - K. Thompson - D. Green - A. Wiggins - K. Looney

- 27 games played, 331 minutes played
- 128.0 ORtg; 106.1 DRtg; +21.9 Net Rating (1st [min. 80 minutes played])

https://i.ibb.co/Dpthxmy/X6-Rg-Cns-d.webp

[ArbitraryWater]

IMO:

Team 1 and 7 are the best.

Team 3 and 6 are the worst.

Rest inbetween.


I voted Team 7.


Can anyone give me a quick rundown on who the teams belong to or at least these 4.