ISH all-time draft thread

[SouBeachTalents]

Rules for the draft

1. Only players from 1980 and beyond will be eligible. If you picked a player who peaked in the 70's, you have to use the 80's version of them
2. Jordan & LeBron are not eligible for this draft
3. We're drafting 8 players per team
4. Considering our different time zones, I think 8 hours between picks is fair

This is the order the randomizer provided

Manny98
DJMcDonald
iamgine
SouBeachTalents
AlternativeAcc
dankok8
j3lademaster
1987_Lakers

While I think 6:00 PM EST is more than fair, I'll give Manny a little leeway since this board is from the late 90's and doesn't have PM's, so I can't notify the other posters the draft has started.

[Manny98]

With the 1st pick I'm taking Nikola Jokic

[dankok8]

I never get a top 3 pick in these drafts :lol

[DJMcDonald]

I will take Shaq.

[iamgine]

Stephanie Curry

[1987_Lakers]

We all know soubeach is taking Hakeem.

[j3lademaster]

We all know soubeach is taking Hakeem.Predict Alt, Dan and my picks next.

[SouBeachTalents]

We all know soubeach is taking Hakeem.
This guy gets it.

[ILLsmak]

Predict Alt, Dan and my picks next.

Wemby, Bird, Duncan?

-Smak

[AlternativeAcc.]

Give me Bird

[dankok8]

Manny98 - Jokic
DJMcDonald - Shaq
imagine - Curry
SouBeachTalents - Hakeem
AlternativeAcc - Bird

I will take 1980 Lewis Ferdinand Alcindor.

[j3lademaster]

Magic.

[1987_Lakers]

KD and Kawhi.

I think j3kadenaster is on the clock again

[j3lademaster]

Duncan

[dankok8]

Kobe

[AlternativeAcc.]

Giannis

Almost took him with my 1st pick

[SouBeachTalents]

Damn, that was fast.

I’ll go with Wade.

[iamgine]

KG

[DJMcDonald]

Dirk

[Manny98]

^ **** literally the two players I wanted picked back to back :oldlol:

I'll go with Pippen & Ray Allen

DJ McDonald you're next again

[DJMcDonald]

I'll grab Steve Nash

[iamgine]

Drob

[AlternativeAcc.]

Drob

Nice

[90sgoat]

Too late to join?

[SouBeachTalents]

AD

[AlternativeAcc.]

Klay Thompson

[dankok8]

CP3

[j3lademaster]

Reggie Miller

[1987_Lakers]

Reggie Miller

Miller is already taken

[SouBeachTalents]

Miller is already taken
No he isn’t bro :lol

[1987_Lakers]

No he isn’t bro :lol

oh shit, for some reason I thought Manny took him. Guess he went with Ray Allen. :lol

[1987_Lakers]

Embiid & Stockton


Embiid
Durant
Kawhi
Stockton

[j3lademaster]

Who’s an elite safety in the perimeter and the paint who can run the floor and finish above the rim and at the very least isn’t a terrible shooter?

[j3lademaster]

Gimme Wemby

[1987_Lakers]

Who’s an elite safety in the perimeter and the paint who can run the floor and finish above the rim and at the very least isn’t a terrible shooter?

Brian Scalabrine

[1987_Lakers]

Gimme Wemby

I had a feeling he would be taken pretty soon.

[j3lademaster]

I had a feeling he would be taken pretty soon.I was kinda worried about cp3 falling to you. I didn’t really want to bite the bullet, but was seriously considering him despite having Magic already. Kawhi, KD and cp3 core would have been pretty over. Also, yeah it felt wrong taking Wemby when Moses was still on the board, but homeboy can’t shoot at all.

[1987_Lakers]

I was kinda worried about cp3 falling to you. I didn’t really want to bite the bullet, but was seriously considering him despite having Magic already. Kawhi, KD and cp3 core would have been pretty over. Also, yeah it felt wrong taking Wemby when Moses was still on the board, but homeboy can’t shoot at all.

I went Kawhi & Durant as my first picks because I knew how much people value these guys in these type of drafts. Also knew the C spot had lots of talent and most posters select their PG kinda late in these drafts. Being able to snag an MVP player in Embiid & all-time assists|steals leader in Stockton as my 3rd & 4th picks isn't too shabby. :lol

I'm honestly not a big fan of Moses either.

[dankok8]

Ahh it's me again.

Kevin McHale

Kareem
McHale
-
Kobe
CP3

[RRR3]

Ahh it's me again.

Kevin McHale

Kareem
McHale
-
Kobe
CP3
Dat spacing :roll:

Barf

[dankok8]

Both Kareem and McHale can play from the high post dummy. I'll draft another SF that can shoot too.

[1987_Lakers]

Dat spacing :roll:

Barf

When I first glanced at that lineup, I thought to myself "That's some pretty nice high end talent", then I had a second look and was like "Oh damn, the spacing needs some work". :lol

[j3lademaster]

Both Kareem and McHale can play from the high post dummy. I'll draft another SF that can shoot too.
Yeah, but if you take McHale off the block he brings no more value than a Laettner, which still isn’t awful I guess. McHale was a super underrated defender though, I can see him being a switch everything guy in the modern league but not sure how much that’d move voters.

[dankok8]

Yeah, but if you take McHale off the block he brings no more value than a Laettner, which still isn’t awful I guess. McHale was a super underrated defender though, I can see him being a switch everything guy in the modern league but not sure how much that’d move voters.

Yep. McHale is one of the most versatile defenders ever as well as a great paint protector. Besides Kareem and McHale taking turns at 60% efficiency near the rim is hardly a bad thing. CP3/Kobe + whatever SF I draft will provide the outside shooting and plenty of it at that.

[RRR3]

Yep. McHale is one of the most versatile defenders ever as well as a great paint protector. Besides Kareem and McHale taking turns at 60% efficiency near the rim is hardly a bad thing. CP3/Kobe + whatever SF I draft will provide the outside shooting and plenty of it at that.
Kobe wasn't a good 3PT shooter and CP3 is fairly low volume/prefers midrange.

[ELITEpower23]

Kobe

Auto ban to take Kobe this early. Sickening, really. Squandered opportunity.

[ELITEpower23]

Ahh it's me again.

Kevin McHale

Kareem
McHale
-
Kobe
CP3

You have the worst team by far. You do realize you're trying to assembly a team that WINS games, yes?

[tpols]

Auto ban to take Kobe this early. Sickening, really. Squandered opportunity.

People picking guys like Klay or Rookie wemby over peak MVP Charles Barkley is probably the most egregious thing I see here. Absolute insanity.

[dankok8]

Kobe wasn't a good 3PT shooter and CP3 is fairly low volume/prefers midrange.

Wasn't a good shooter or took tough shots? On this team, he will have a low usage and ball will go into the post first and then come out when Kareem or McHale get doubled. Kobe is gonna shoot very well on open threes. And CP3 shoots 37% on 4 attempts a game for his career. Over 40% on open threes per tracking data.

[tpols]

Wasn't a good shooter or took tough shots? On this team, he will have a low usage and ball will go into the post first and then come out when Kareem or McHale get doubled. Kobe is gonna shoot very well on open threes. And CP3 shoots 37% on 4 attempts a game for his career. Over 40% on open threes per tracking data.

Chris Paul and Kobe are two of the best shooting superstar guards of all time. And Kareem had range on his skyhook out to 18 feet. A nice 3nD SF and you might have the best team out here so far.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I'll take Kyrie.

This gives me another elite 3pt shooter, but also an elite shot creator which compliments Klay. Bird and Giannis bring enough playmaking to the table, so Irving's responsibilities are to space the floor and knock down 3s, midrange, and create when needed. Perfect guy for that.

[SouBeachTalents]

Tatum

[j3lademaster]

People picking guys like Klay or Rookie wemby over peak MVP Charles Barkley is probably the most egregious thing I see here. Absolute insanity.

I wouldn’t take Klay over Barkley to build a franchise around, but as my 3rd or 4th option? Klay all day. You can replicate Barkley, Kobe etc all at some level; but a catch and shoot scorer who happens to be a top 3-5 deep range shooter ever who can microwave to the tune of 20-30 point quarters and can play defense is way too unique.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I wouldn’t take Klay over Barkley to build a franchise around, but as my 3rd or 4th option? Klay all day. You can replicate Barkley, Kobe etc all at some level; but a catch and shoot scorer who happens to be a top 3-5 deep range shooter ever who can microwave to the tune of 20-30 point quarters and can play defense is way too unique.

Tpols is a moron lol. But yeah, klay is such a perfect off-ball compliment to other stars I'm honestly surprised he fell to me. Giannis is basically a taller, more athletic, better passing version of Barkley on offense with elite DPOY level defense to match. People are passing on Barkley because he couldn't defend.

[tpols]

I wouldn’t take Klay over Barkley to build a franchise around, but as my 3rd or 4th option? Klay all day. You can replicate Barkley, Kobe etc all at some level; but a catch and shoot scorer who happens to be a top 3-5 deep range shooter ever who can microwave to the tune of 20-30 point quarters and can play defense is way too unique.

In today's league there are so many guys who can hit the 3 and play defense that it's not an anomaly anymore. Jrue Holiday shot better from 3 this year than Steph Curry. And was better in the 2024 Finals than peak Klay.

That wasn't a late pick... it was an early one. 1993 peak MVP Charles Barkley was almost MJ level who was apparently banned from this contest. To have him get blanked for such inferior talent is a joke.

You guys just don't know ball.

[iamgine]

Luka

[DJMcDonald]

I will take TRACY MCGRADY

[SouBeachTalents]

I wouldn’t take Klay over Barkley to build a franchise around, but as my 3rd or 4th option? Klay all day. You can replicate Barkley, Kobe etc all at some level; but a catch and shoot scorer who happens to be a top 3-5 deep range shooter ever who can microwave to the tune of 20-30 point quarters and can play defense is way too unique.


Tpols is a moron lol. But yeah, klay is such a perfect off-ball compliment to other stars I'm honestly surprised he fell to me. Giannis is basically a taller, more athletic, better passing version of Barkley on offense with elite DPOY level defense to match. People are passing on Barkley because he couldn't defend.


In today's league there are so many guys who can hit the 3 and play defense that it's not an anomaly anymore. Jrue Holiday shot better from 3 this year than Steph Curry. And was better in the 2024 Finals than peak Klay.

That wasn't a late pick... it was an early one. 1993 peak MVP Charles Barkley was almost MJ level who was apparently banned from this contest. To have him get blanked for such inferior talent is a joke.

You guys just don't know ball.
Barkley's value takes a hit in all-time drafts imo. As an individual talent, you could argue him over a good amount of the players taken so far. But pairing him with 2-3 other ATG players, his game is simply not as complimentary as the other players who've been selected. Guys like Dirk & KG would mesh with virtually any lineup, I don't see another team that Barkley would make better so far.

What did you expect AltAcct to do with his roster, are you really pairing Barkley next to Giannis & Bird :lol Klay provides more value for his team, he doesn't need to possess the ball, he's on the Mt Rushmore of 3 point shooters, he plays good defense. Tell me which team you think Barkley would make better so far, which player would you swap him out with that improves the lineup.

[tpols]

I don't know if you're under the impression Charles Barkley was a bad shooter but he wasn't. He had an automatic midrange jumper and was one of the most efficient jump shooters ever and more efficient than Klay easily.

Another player you guys need to scoop up real quick is MVP 1998 Karl Malone. But I guess he sucks too. :oldlol: :facepalm

And Pat Ewing. These 3 were better than a handful of previous selections by a long shot.

Filling out the team with Jrue Holiday and Derrick White role players is easy to do late in the draft.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Barkley's value takes a hit in all-time drafts imo. As an individual talent, you could argue him over a good amount of the players taken so far. But pairing him with 2-3 other ATG players, his game is simply not as complimentary as the other players who've been selected. Guys like Dirk & KG would mesh with virtually any lineup, I don't see another team that Barkley would make better so far.

What did you expect AltAcct to do with his roster, are you really pairing Barkley next to Giannis & Bird :lol Klay provides more value for his team, he doesn't need to possess the ball, he's on the Mt Rushmore of 3 point shooters, he plays good defense. Tell me which team you think Barkley would make better so far, which player would you swap him out with that improves the lineup.

You shouldn't have engaged him lol. He's literally retarded and is now trying to ruin the thread. Peak autism.

[RRR3]

tpols is so dimwitted, bro simply doesn't understand basketball :roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Manny on the clock

[1987_Lakers]

I actually see Barkley as a great piece if you already have enough shooting & defense. Maybe a bench piece, Instant offense.

[Manny98]

Yes I'm picking Barkley as I think him and Jokic compliment each other very well offensively and instead of running a traditional point guard im going to run Manu Ginobli as my point guard

PG - Manu
SG - Allen
SF - Pippen
PF - Barkley
C - Jokic

[1987_Lakers]

Yes I'm picking Barkley as I think him and Jokic compliment each other very well offensively and instead of running a traditional point guard im going to run Manu Ginobli as my point guard

PG - Manu
SG - Allen
SF - Pippen
PF - Barkley
C - Jokic

https://media.tenor.com/A0REOBRcXzcAAAAM/black-boy-reaction.gif

[dankok8]

Manny has a double pick no?

But yea Barkley is a great player. I see the issue of fit and him being a defensive liability but it depends on the roster as well.

[1987_Lakers]

Manny has a double pick no?

He picked Manu as well.

[DJMcDonald]

I will take VINCE CARTER.
My starting 5 is:

Nash
Vince
Tmac
Dirk
Shaq

[AlternativeAcc.]

https://media.tenor.com/A0REOBRcXzcAAAAM/black-boy-reaction.gif

Manny saying **** interior defense and spacing for Jokic. :lol interesting strategy

[Manny98]

Manny saying **** interior defense and spacing for Jokic. :lol interesting strategy
I have enough spacing on my team and I'm aware my interior defense is lacking but I still have 3 picks remaining to solve that

[Carbine]

Barkley clearly proved on the Olympic team that it doesn't matter how many stars you put around him he will do his thing. It probably amplifies his game if anything because he's not ball dominant in the half court and he's an ATG fast break player in his peak.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Barkley clearly proved on the Olympic team that it doesn't matter how many stars you put around him he will do his thing. It probably amplifies his game if anything because he's not ball dominant in the half court and he's an ATG fast break player in his peak.

It proves he could feast on horrible competition in games with zero pressure for sure.

Most teams in here have multiple all-time great defenders in the paint. Plus the defensive side is where the concerns are, because again you have all-time greats on the interior to deal with. Plenty of great scorers to go around.

[Carbine]

Barkley is the best offensive power forward ever IMO. His defensive shortcomings are completely overblown in this setting - it's not a requirement to have an All NBA defender at PF to beat another great team.
.
Dwight is still available right? Pat Ewing? Pairing them mitigates a lot of defensive concerns. I'm not even a fan of the guy he's a bitch but Embiid + Barkley combo is as deadly as you're going to get on offense and Embiid in his peak was a monster on defense.
.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Barkley is the best offensive power forward ever IMO. His defensive shortcomings are completely overblown in this setting - it's not a requirement to have an All NBA defender at PF to beat another great team.
.
Dwight is still available right? Pat Ewing? Pairing them mitigates a lot of defensive concerns. I'm not even a fan of the guy he's a bitch but Embiid + Barkley combo is as deadly as you're going to get on offense and Embiid in his peak was a monster on defense.
.

Post defense matters quite a bit in this context.. it is literally the best players of all time at every position so any interior defensive weakness is magnified. Barkley also doesn't provide spacing on offense, so I can understand not wanting to pair him with a traditional big like most teams on here have.

Having the greatest scorer at every position isn't really the goal. Its about optimizing fit.

Also Giannis averaged 35/13/5 on 66% in the finals en route to a dominant fmvp run. I would say he peaked higher than chuck offensively.

[Manny98]

Manny saying **** interior defense and spacing for Jokic. :lol interesting strategy
Your perimeter defense is awful and you have probably the least talented team so far

[AlternativeAcc.]

Your perimeter defense is awful and you have probably the least talented team so far

Considering your team is awful and assembled in the worst manner possible I'm glad you think this. It means I have one of the best teams.

Klay is a plus defender, Bird was excellent, and Giannis can switch on to anyone. Your bball IQ is very low

[1987_Lakers]

This is very entertaining. Loving the roast party.

Just my 2 cents, but prime Klay is for sure a plus defender. As for Bird, it depends on where you play him, if you play him at SF, his man to man defense can be pretty mediocre. Overall, he's a very good help/team defender who's better at defending PFs.

[Manny98]

Considering your team is awful and assembled in the worst manner possible I'm glad you think this. It means I have one of the best teams.

Klay is a plus defender, Bird was excellent, and Giannis can switch on to anyone. Your bball IQ is very low

Klay is the most overrated defender ever, he's always been a negative on that end, Jokic and Barkley are going to feast against your interior

[Manny98]

This is very entertaining. Loving the roast party.

Just my 2 cents, but prime Klay is for sure a plus defender. As for Bird, it depends on where you play him, if you play him at SF, his man to man defense can be pretty mediocre. Overall, he's a very good help/team defender who's better at defending PFs.
Bird,Kyrie and Klay defending your perimeter

Yikes :oldlol:

[AlternativeAcc.]

This is very entertaining. Loving the roast party.

Just my 2 cents, but prime Klay is for sure a plus defender. As for Bird, it depends on where you play him, if you play him at SF, his man to man defense can be pretty mediocre. Overall, he's a very good help/team defender who's better at man to man vs PFs.

Pretty amusing a guy with manu/Allen as his backcourt is talking about perimeter defense. I also out-talent him at every position except his 1st overall pick :oldlol: dude has one good defender on his roster and only one 3 point shooter. Couldn't surround Jokic with a worse cast if you tried

But yes Bird wasn't elite 1v1, but excelled as a help defender. But 1v1 he can definitely hold his own.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Klay is the most overrated defender ever, he's always been a negative on that end, Jokic and Barkley are going to feast against your interior

I'm sorry you suck at these things man, it's just a silly draft. It's okay.

[Manny98]

Manu > Kyrie
Ray > Klay
Barkley and Giannis is a wash
Jokic > Bird

[AlternativeAcc.]

Manu > Kyrie
Ray > Klay
Barkley and Giannis is a wash
Jokic > Bird
Kyrie > Manu quite easily, but I like Manu. Kyrie is the 2nd greatest shooting PG ever. 40+% on high volume from 3, best midrange shooting pg ever and best finishing PG. Best tough shot making pg. Offensively he's the most talented pg ever

Klay is better shooter and defender than ray. Ray better off the dribble but my team doesn't need that

Giannis easily better than Barkley.

And Bird/Jokic is close but wouldn't want Jokers defense unless paired with an elite rim protector. You paired him with the worst defensive option possible in ****ing Barkley :roll:

[DJMcDonald]

Manu > Kyrie
Ray > Klay
Barkley and Giannis is a wash
Jokic > Bird
Hahaha what?

[Manny98]

Kyrie > Manu quite easily, but I like Manu. Kyrie is the 2nd greatest shooting PG ever. 40+% on high volume from 3, best midrange shooting pg ever and best finishing PG. Best tough shot making pg. Offensively he's the most talented pg ever

Klay is better shooter and defender than ray. Ray better off the dribble but my team doesn't need that

Giannis easily better than Barkley.

And Bird/Jokic is close but wouldn't want Jokers defense unless paired with an elite rim protector. You paired him with the worst defensive option possible in ****ing Barkley :roll:
Kyrie is my favorite player of all time but prime wise Manu was way more impactful as a player and better at virtually everything

Milwaukee Ray Allen was literally a top 10 player in the league and was carrying teams deep into the playoffs, Klay is the third/4th beat player on the Warriors in their championship runs stop it

[AlternativeAcc.]

Kyrie is my favorite player of all time but prime wise Manu was way more impactful as a player and better at virtually everything

Milwaukee Ray Allen was literally a top 10 player in the league and was carrying teams deep into the playoffs, Klay is the third/4th beat player on the Warriors in their championship runs stop it

Manu is better at passing and that's literally it. But yes, virtually everything. Nice argument.

I'll concede on Ray being the better player in a vacuum, but I'd rather have Klay as my 3rd/4th option. Dude dropped 60 points in 3 quarters with 11 dribbles. He's the best catch and shoot player ever and actually provides elite D unlike Allen. Klay is literally a 1 of 1 and a perfect compliment to more ball dominant players. Fit and optimization is something low IQs have problems grasping, which is why you surrounded Jokic with terrible fits at almost every position. My team not only out-talents yours, but it also significantly out-fits yours, which is arguably more important.

[Manny98]

Manu is better at passing and that's literally it. But yes, virtually everything. Nice argument.

I'll concede on Ray being the better player in a vacuum, but I'd rather have Klay as my 3rd/4th option. Dude dropped 60 points in 3 quarters with 11 dribbles. He's the best catch and shoot player ever and actually provides elite D unlike Allen. Klay is literally a 1 of 1 and a perfect compliment to more ball dominant players. Fit and optimization is something low IQs have problems grasping, which is why you surrounded Jokic with terrible fits at almost every position. My team not only out-talents yours, but it also significantly out-fits yours, which is arguably more important.

Passing, Defense , IQ, finishing, more efficient, way more impactful

Your team doesn't out talent anything I have a far superior backcourt and Jokic would easily be the best player on the floor if our teams were to go head to head

Don't worry about my fit because my team isn't finished yet

[iamgine]

Paulina George

[SouBeachTalents]

Mark Price

[AlternativeAcc.]

Ewing

[tpols]

I have enough spacing on my team and I'm aware my interior defense is lacking but I still have 3 picks remaining to solve that


Out of all the guys that have won DPOY and / or been great defenders like 95% of them are still available ~ Dwight, Rodman, Kidd, Mutumbo, Zo, Bogut, Gary Payton, Noah, Dray, Wallace bros, AK47, Matrix, Tyson Chandler, Ron Artest, Bill Lambier, Karl Malone, Sidney Moncrief, etc.

So I think you'll be straight if you just grab some combination of those guys. You already have Pippen too whose one of the best defenders ever.

[Manny98]

Out of all the guys that have won DPOY and / or been great defenders like 95% of them are still available ~ Dwight, Rodman, Kidd, Mutumbo, Gary Payton, Noah, Dray, Wallace bros, AK47, Matrix, Tyson Chandler, Ron Artest, Bill Lambier, Karl Malone, Sidney Moncrief, etc.

So I think you'll be straight if you just grab some combination of those guys. You already have Pippen too whose one of the best defenders ever.
Yep not giving anything away but the players I want will round out my team so well I'm well aware of my lack of rim protection which will be addressed as long as somebody doesn't pick the guys I want

[dankok8]

Pierce

[j3lademaster]

Jason Kidd

[1987_Lakers]

Draymond and Booker

Draymond adds all-time defense, could guard multiple positions, brings playmaking & leadership. Could start Draymond and bring KD off the bench depending on the match-up, similar to what Team USA did to Durant in the Olympics.

What Booker did in the Olympics got me sold on how he would fit with other stars. He took a lesser role and excelled at it. Played great defense & excelled as a catch and shoot guy at times and was able to contribute in other areas. I really thought he was the most consistent player along with LeBron throughout the Olympics. Kerr fell in love with the guy.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ5XILoYaVzO_LH6QYfSjHsSOs4GRMyf FnMcA&s

Embiid
KD | Draymond
Kawhi
Booker
Stockton

[j3lademaster]

I’m taking Sheed

[dankok8]

Booker is not a good defender but that's the thing. It's good to pick superstars on your team rather than role players because more talented guys can and almost always improve on defense when they are given a lesser offensive load.

[dankok8]

Zo Mourning

[1987_Lakers]

I’m taking Sheed

He was my back up plan if someone took Draymond. :lol


Booker is not a good defender but that's the thing. It's good to pick superstars on your team rather than role players because more talented guys can and almost always improve on defense when they are given a lesser offensive load.

Booker played great defense at the Olympics. Without having a big role on offense he was able to focus more on the things that role players usually do. Not all stars can make that transition though, Edwards at the Olympics although solid, was kinda of a ball stopper at times and killed the offensive flow. But some stars can indeed make that transition. I know T-Mac was a really good defender before he got a greater role on offense. It's very taxing for a star (especially a wing) to go 100% on offense & defense all the time.

[dankok8]

He was my back up plan if someone took Draymond. :lol

Booker played great defense at the Olympics. Without having a big role on offense he was able to focus more on the things that role players usually do. Not all stars can make that transition though, Edwards at the Olympics although solid, was kinda of a ball stopper at times and killed the flow. But some stars can indeed make that transition. I know T-Mac was a really good defender before he got a greater role on offense. It's very taxing for a star (especially a wing) to go 100% on offense & defense all the time.

Yea same with Kawhi. He peaked on D before his offensive load went up. From 2017 onwards, his D is very overrated. But the luxury is that most of our teams have plenty of scoring so you can pick the most complementary versions of these players. For instance I'll take 2008 Paul Pierce over his peak version. Takes a few less shots but more efficient, great from 3pt land and played good D.

[j3lademaster]

Booker’s defense is average, not terrible, but if you have to have a defensive liability it might as well be from your guard rather than big. I’d probably bring him off the bench as instant offense, he’s a combo guard who can play the 1 and 2; start Draymond and dare the other team to try to cover KD with whatever 6’4 midget they have at the 2.

[j3lademaster]

Pretty ****ing crazy that in an all time draft you can’t put together a curry, KD, Klay and Draymond core.

[1987_Lakers]

Pretty ****ing crazy that in an all time draft you can’t put together a curry, KD, Klay and Draymond core.

After I drafted Kawhi & KD as my first picks I was hoping I would get a PF like Draymond or Sheed (because I knew I would need a PF who could defend the post) and both were somehow available in these rounds. It's very hard to find your modern day power forward in these drafts because the position is rather new.

I feel like those type of PFs in these drafts can be more valuable than your traditional PF like McHale, Barkley, & Malone because the league has changed so much in terms of spacing. On another note I feel like Bird would be the perfect PF in today's league.

[dankok8]

I was gonna draft Sheed but he's actually not that great of a 3pt shooter. 35-36% from 3pt range on what were mostly open threes for him doesn't really move the needle for a great offense.

[1987_Lakers]

I was gonna draft Sheed but he's actually not that great of a 3pt shooter. 35-36% from 3pt range on what were mostly open threes for him doesn't really move the needle for a great offense.

36% is pretty respectable, it's about league average. It's more about opening up the offense and keeping defenders honest. Having multiple shooters makes life so much easier for your bigs and wings who like to attack. Sheed is great post defender as well, he's a guy who would fit on any team on these drafts because he doesn't need a big role on offense to excel.

[j3lademaster]

I was gonna draft Sheed but he's actually not that great of a 3pt shooter. 35-36% from 3pt range on what were mostly open threes for him doesn't really move the needle for a great offense.All those times teams would double Ben Wallace on the block and leave Sheed right? Foh

[dankok8]

All those times teams would double Ben Wallace on the block and leave Sheed right? Foh

Opposing PF/C didn't defend Sheed at the 3pt line. He was mostly open.

[j3lademaster]

Opposing PF/C didn't defend Sheed at the 3pt line. He was mostly open.

Yes they did, Big Ben was one of the biggest offensively liabilities ever; very few teams played 4 on 5 like those Pistons did. You're not going to leave Sheed in that situation.

[tpols]

Yes they did, Big Ben was one of the biggest offensively liabilities ever; very few teams played 4 on 5 like those Pistons did. You're not going to leave Sheed in that situation.

If you look at Sheeds splits and highlights he was mostly a post game turn around midrange jumpshot shooter. Teams weren't crowding him from 3. That wasnt even his game back then.


https://youtu.be/-gvZFwDoeyU?si=Ah3d9NMPfab6K06o

Ball don't lie. And neither does the tape.

If you want a clutch stretch 4 who can play defense and bang timely 3s know who yall are discounting?

Robert Horry.

[j3lademaster]

If you look at Sheeds splits and highlights he was mostly a post game turn around midrange jumpshot shooter. Teams weren't crowding him from 3. That wasnt even his game back then.


https://youtu.be/-gvZFwDoeyU?si=Ah3d9NMPfab6K06o

Ball don't lie. And neither does the tape.

If you want a clutch stretch 4 who can play defense and bang timely 3s know who yall are discounting?

Robert Horry.

I wasn't looking for a 3 and D stretch 4, I wanted someone who can create on the block, run the floor, is a good defender with length ~7foot, good feet defensively, money from mid range and is respectable from 3. Would I prefer he was an elite 40%'er from there? of course I would, but Horry doesn't check enough boxes. Maybe as like a last pick to round out my team.

[1987_Lakers]

If you want a clutch stretch 4 who can play defense and bang timely 3s know who yall are discounting?

Robert Horry.

:roll:

[j3lademaster]

If you look at Sheeds splits and highlights he was mostly a post game turn around midrange jumpshot shooter. Teams weren't crowding him from 3.There are a handful of players in nba history who warrants that kind of attention from 3, and Robert Horry wasn't even one of them :lol

Acting like that's the standard is wild.

[tpols]

I wasn't looking for a 3 and D stretch 4, I wanted someone who can create on the block, run the floor, is a good defender with length ~7foot, good feet defensively, money from mid range and is respectable from 3. Would I prefer he was an elite 40%'er from there? of course I would, but Horry doesn't check enough boxes. Maybe as like a last pick to round out my team.

You've already got that in Tim Duncan and Wemby in the post and around the paint. Why would you need to crowd that out more?

Horry is the perfect role player in all of NBA history especially as it pertains to the modern game. He was athletic, tall and big, had great shooting skills, and most importantly when your stars are getting doubled in crunch time he has the cajones to never be scared and drill clutch shots.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Malone. Him and Ewing are both guys who can fit with Giannis offensively due to their midrange shooting bringing centers out of the paint. Plus just another big athletic freak and great defender. Would split his minutes with Ewing pretty evenly.

[1987_Lakers]

Malone. Him and Ewing are both guys who can fit with Giannis offensively due to their midrange shooting bringing centers out of the paint. Plus just another big athletic freak and great defender. Would split his minutes with Ewing pretty evenly.

I’m guessing this is Karl and not Moses?

[AlternativeAcc.]

I’m guessing this is Karl and not Moses?
Lol, yes.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Let's be real though; imagine almost certainly has the best team and will get the most votes.

Can't believe we let this dude surround curry with PG, KG, and D-Rob.. :lol

[j3lademaster]

Let's be real though; imagine almost certainly has the best team and will get the most votes.

Can't believe we let this dude surround curry with PG, KG, and D-Rob.. :lolI thought Manny was taking Admiral for sure as one of his double picks.

[gbaLL]

https://cdn.nba.com/manage/2021/08/magic-johnson-iso-archive.jpg

[AlternativeAcc.]

I thought Manny was taking Admiral for sure as one of his double picks.

Manny dropped the ball on every pick after Jokic lol.

But anyways, I do think my team has an argument for best. Giannis brings an element that no team really has in terms of a guy who can attack the paint from anywhere on the floor and finish with all-time great efficiency while being a great passer. He has seasons more efficient than Shaq in terms of post scoring so him being surrounded by all-time great shooters is pretty nasty. 3pt shooting, midrange, transition, and post scoring my team doesn't have a weakness.

Although I do forsee imagine winning this thing

[DJMcDonald]

https://cdn.nba.com/manage/2021/08/magic-johnson-iso-archive.jpg

Welcome back my n*gg*

[Manny98]

Malone. Him and Ewing are both guys who can fit with Giannis offensively due to their midrange shooting bringing centers out of the paint. Plus just another big athletic freak and great defender. Would split his minutes with Ewing pretty evenly.

Awful Spacing :roll:

[RRR3]

Malone. Him and Ewing are both guys who can fit with Giannis offensively due to their midrange shooting bringing centers out of the paint. Plus just another big athletic freak and great defender. Would split his minutes with Ewing pretty evenly.
Yikes low IQ af, deee-readful spacing.

[1987_Lakers]

I think I've done a good job especially considering I had the last pick. I've also noticed a bunch of current players being drafted. :lol

My team only has one 90's player, the rest are current.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Yikes low IQ af, deee-readful spacing.

Kyrie
Klay
Bird
Giannis
Ewing/Malone (both had silky jumpshots forcing bigs out of the paint)

This is great spacing while still mainting a healthy interior defensive presence at all times.

Calling this bad spacing is like saying you have friends and a good life. Just an insanely wrong statement.

[RRR3]

Kyrie
Klay
Bird
Giannis
Ewing/Malone (both had silky jumpshots forcing bigs out of the paint)

This is great spacing while still mainting a healthy interior defensive presence at all times.

Calling this bad spacing is like saying you have friends and a good life. Just an insanely wrong statement.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Whatever you say, Simon.

[SouBeachTalents]

Jimmy Butler

[AlternativeAcc.]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Whatever you say, Simon.

I mean, everybody knows this lol. Ewing had one of the smoothest jumpers ever for a big man. Malone too. Both guys also had high IQs and set screens and could cut/play off ball effectively.

The problem with morons like you is that you don't understand there are degrees of spacing. Big men with great jump shots still provide spacing. Not everyone needs to be a literal sniper from 3 to provide spacing.

Malone shot > 50% on midrange shots >16ft for multiple years on high volume. Better percentages than MJ and comparable with KD and Dirk. Go look at the stats.

Zero chance Ewing and Malone don't develop 3s in today's game.

[Manny98]

I mean, everybody knows this lol. Ewing had one of the smoothest jumpers ever for a big man. Malone too. Both guys also had high IQs and set screens and could cut/play off ball effectively.

The problem with morons like you is that you don't understand there are degrees of spacing. Big men with great jump shots still provide spacing. Not everyone needs to be a literal sniper from 3 to provide spacing.

Malone shot > 50% on midrange shots >16ft for multiple years on high volume. Better percentages than MJ and comparable with KD and Dirk. Go look at the stats.

Zero chance Ewing and Malone don't develop 3s in today's game.

With someone who can't shoot to save his life like Giannis on your team you ideally needed somebody who can stretch out to the 3 point line

[dankok8]

With someone who can't shoot to save his life like Giannis on your team you ideally needed somebody who can stretch out to the 3 point line

Yea because he doesn't have anybody who can shoot! :pimp:

[warriorfan]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Whatever you say, Simon.

Is this dude making shitty teams again? :lol

I remember one draft awhile back he picked Yao Ming and Elgin Baylor and a few more really wack picks

Legit had the worst team :roll:

[AlternativeAcc.]

With someone who can't shoot to save his life like Giannis on your team you ideally needed somebody who can stretch out to the 3 point line

Giannis has comparable efficiency to Shaq at the rim and has never been surrounded by 3 of the greatest shooters in history. Kyrie, Klay. Bird provide insane spacing. Malone and Ewing were money from midrange and provide ample interior spacing. They would absolutely develop 3s in today's game, but even as they were spacing is not an issue.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Is this dude making shitty teams again? :lol

I remember one draft awhile back he picked Yao Ming and Elgin Baylor and a few more really wack picks

Legit had the worst team :roll:

When was this draft? Don't recall ever picking Yao ming in any of these drafts.

Can you post the thread?

[warriorfan]

When was this draft? Don't recall ever picking Yao ming in any of these drafts.

Can you post the thread?

we both know that trying to bring up any threads here is a moot point because it all gets deleted , try to look back anything from the time period where you re-made a new account. Its gone. Not that it’s a tragedy or anything. Ish not saving your wack picks and awful takes is probably a good thing.

[AlternativeAcc.]

we both know that trying to bring up any threads here is a moot point because it all gets deleted , try to look back anything from the time period where you re-made a new account. Its gone. Not that it’s a tragedy or anything. Ish not saving your wack picks and awful takes is probably a good thing.

Seek help.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Malone shot > 50% on midrange shots >16ft for multiple years on high volume. Better percentages than MJ and comparable with KD and Dirk. Go look at the stats.


Just to touch on this... Malone shot 53% on long 2s during his peak 97/98 seasons on high volume.

Jordan during that same time shot 49%, Dirks peak in 2011 he was at 52% which was the highest of his career, and Garnett shot around 45%. Paul in his peak years was also around 45-46%. Kawhi at 44%, Kobe low 40s/high 30s....

So saying Malone doesn't space the floor, especially in the context where hed be surrounded by 3 of the greatest shooters ever, is actually one of the dumbest things ever uttered. Leave it to manny and rr3. :oldlol:

[Im Still Ballin]

Tpols is a moron lol. But yeah, klay is such a perfect off-ball compliment to other stars I'm honestly surprised he fell to me. Giannis is basically a taller, more athletic, better passing version of Barkley on offense with elite DPOY level defense to match. People are passing on Barkley because he couldn't defend.

I get the general, surface-level comparison to Giannis. But the nuances about how they go about dominating the paint is different. Chuck is way more capable in the post, has a reliable mid-range jump shot, and is a little better at free-throw shooting. Not to mention a superior offensive rebounder.

He's just a more dynamic scorer in the half-court setting. Able to do more things whatever the circumstance. In the clutch, against mismatches from switches, cross-matches in transition, small-ball lineups, broken plays, etc. Situational value.

Chuck probably shoots 65-70% on two-point shots whereas Giannis is at 60-65%. And more of that is able to come in the half-court setting through the post and mid-range and from putbacks. I mean, Chuck shot 25% above league average on two-point shots in Philly. 61.4% FG vs. 49% FG.

If you multiply the 2024 league average 2pt% (54.5) by 1.25 that's like shooting 68.1% today. And he was doing that against huge lineups that packed the paint.

As for the defense, it's an issue but not as critical as you're making it out to be. The right scheme and personnel can minimize his shortcomings while maximizing what he does do well on defense: rebound.

In today's league, you could play him with a Brook Lopez and a Jaren Jackson. Or a Porzingis/healthy Rob Williams and Al Horford. Big, rim-protecting defenders that can shoot. And floor-spacing versatile defenders that can defend the perimeter and switch. They've got more options on defense than Jokic does because he can only play the center position. Yet Denver made it work.

A RealGM poster tracked Charles Barkley's stats in 100 games between 1988-1996. His scoring at the rim was tremendous (81% on 8.15 rim FGAs per game) and his mid-range was good (41.6% on 5.31 mid-range FGAs per game).

A play-type breakdown is also included for 84 of the games. You can see what types of plays he's primarily scoring from. There's also an isolation play breakdown that gets even more specific.

In these games, he averaged 4.4 post-up possessions per game, 7.8 isolation possessions per game, 2.5 offensive rebound putback possessions per game, 1.0 cut possession per game, 1.3 finish possessions per game, and 1.3 transition possessions per game.


100 Game Sample

At Rim: 660/815 FG (81.0%)
In Paint (Overall): 730/1051 FG (69.4%)
Mid-Range: 221/531 FG (41.6%)
3 Point: 73/243 FG (30.0%)

https://i.ibb.co/6Dc6FGN/PwkuFoX.png
https://i.ibb.co/NKHwg5h/9F5ZfRa.png


Synergy Play-type Breakdown 1988-1996 (84 games):

Explanation:


I have added an extra category called Finish, which is basically all the plays when a guard would drive the lane and create a shot for him to just go up and finish. There are several sub-categories out of Isolation, and the Spot Up category is referring to jump shots only. PPP stands for Points Per Play. As excellent as he was in the low post and on the offensive glass, he was indefensible when cutting to the hoop off the ball. Also as bad a shooter as he was in a catch and shoot or spot up play, he was a tremendous 3 point shooter in isolation when he had a chance to set his feet and line up his set shot. He always took a few shots every game since he felt if he made the first shot or two, then it would open up his inside game.

https://i.ibb.co/jknS5GX/V0TZP3e.png

Isolation-specific breakdown:

https://i.ibb.co/2jCVpvK/ahox1mg.png

Games included:


Dec 22, 1992 - Warriors vs. Suns
Feb 7, 1993 - Magic vs. Suns *4 FGA
Mar 3, 1993 - Sixers vs. Suns
Mar 23, 1993 - Knicks vs. Suns
Mar 28, 1993 - Suns vs. Sixers (2nd Half Only) *12 FGA
Mar 30, 1993 - Suns vs. Bulls
Apr 2, 1993 - Suns vs. Celtics
Apr 6, 1993 - Lakers vs. Suns
1993 Playoffs Suns vs. Spurs (Full Series)
1993 Playoffs Suns vs. Sonics (Full Series)
1993 Finals Suns vs. Bulls (Full Series)

Nov 30, 1987 - Sixers vs. Jazz
Nov 8, 1988 - Pistons vs. Sixers
Nov 16, 1988 - Bulls vs. Sixers
Dec 28, 1988 - Sixers vs. Lakers
Mar 16, 1989 - Sixers vs. Knicks
Nov 14, 1989 - Sixers vs. Celtics
Mar 11, 1990 - Sixers vs. Celtics
Apr 7, 1990 - Sixers vs. Hawks
Apr 19, 1990 - Sixers vs. Pistons
1990 Playoffs Game 5 Sixers vs. Cavs
1990 Playoffs Sixers vs. Bulls (Full Series)
Nov 2, 1990 - Sixers vs. Bulls *2 FGA
Nov 30, 1990 - Sixers vs. Pistons
Dec 28, 1990 - Sixers vs. Suns
Jan 9, 1991 - Bulls vs. Sixers
1991 Playoffs Sixers vs. Bulls (Full Series)
Nov 1, 1991 - Sixers vs. Bulls
Nov 22, 1991 - Hawks vs. Sixers (Incomplete) *8 FGA
Mar 8, 1992 - Bulls vs. Sixers
Apr 4, 1992 - Sixers vs. Hawks

Dec 4, 1987 - Sonics vs. Sixers *2 FGA
Mar 23, 1988 - Bulls vs. Sixers
Nov 28, 1988 - Lakers vs. Sixers
1989 Playoffs Gm. 2 Sixers vs. Knicks
1989 Playoffs Gm. 3 Knicks vs. Sixers
Nov 17, 1989 - Spurs vs. Sixers *2 FGA
Dec 7, 1990 - Nuggets vs. Sixers
Mar 17, 1991 - Sixers vs. Celtics
1994 Playoffs Warriors vs. Suns (Full Series) *5 FGA
1994 Playoffs Suns vs. Rockets (Full Series) * 6 FGA
Mar 13, 1994 - Suns vs. Magic
Jan 17, 1995 - Nuggets vs. Suns *4 FGA
Jan 22, 1995 - Magic vs. Suns *2 FGA
Feb 7, 1995 - Suns vs. Mavericks
Mar 16, 1995 - Suns vs. Hornets
Mar 21, 1995 - Suns vs. Magic *1 FGA
1995 Playoffs Gm. 3 Suns vs. Blazers
Jan 28, 1996 - Suns vs. Bulls
Feb 6, 1996 - Bulls vs. Suns
1996 Playoffs Gm. 2 Suns vs. Spurs
Nov 2, 1996 - Rockets vs. Suns

[16 games below not included in play-type breakdown]

Nov. 28, 1987 - Sixers vs. Kings
Dec. 22, 1987 - Sixers vs. Celtics
Nov. 18, 1988 - Sixers vs. Knicks
Jan. 26, 1990 - Sixers vs. Bulls
Feb. 7, 1990 - Sixers vs. Warriors
Feb. 23, 1990 - Sixers vs. Lakers
Jan. 4, 1991 - Sixers vs. Jazz
Mar. 12, 1991 - Sixers vs. Hawks
Jan. 14, 1992 - Sixers vs. Bulls
1995 Playoffs Suns vs. Rockets (Full Series)

[Im Still Ballin]

Here are Giannis Antetokoumpo's shot charts for last year (73 games):

https://i.ibb.co/SJ4x66n/FGA-for-Giannis-Antetokounmpo-during-the-2023-24-Regular-Season.png

https://i.ibb.co/PwzZ2Xf/FGA-for-Giannis-Antetokounmpo-during-the-2023-24-Regular-Season-1.png

[Im Still Ballin]

There are actually several advantages in the modern NBA today for hiding a weak defender that wasn't there in the past.

For starters, players are more versatile on offense and defense, particularly big men. This makes more types of lineups viable. Secondly, there's no illegal defense, so you can more readily implement zone defense principles and help defense strategies like peel-switching and pre-switching.

It can actually be kind of hard to attack someone if they keep preemptively switching off-ball to the guy in the corner. Any team that spends an entire shot clock looking for that guy is going to score poorly. At a certain point you have to look for a good shot with the time you have in the possession.

Covering for Chuck would be easier than Jokic because he can be put on an SF, PF, or C. Nikola's kind of locked into the center spot. They tried playing him with Plumlee and Nurkic in the past and it wasn't pretty. But despite that lineup inflexibility, Denver made it work; they were the 8th-best defense last season and had an elite clutch and playoff defense in 2023 when they won the championship.

And I'm sure Denver could have a top 3-5 defense if they had better defenders around Jokic. Someone like Jaren Jackson Jr alone would probably do it. Add a Caruso as well and they'd be a lock.

I think Dallas had the best or 2nd-best defense in the league after they acquired PJ Washington and Daniel Gafford. When healthy, that defense was elite and it showed in the playoffs. I think Chuck's an easier guy to defensively cover than Luka.

Thanks to Harvey Pollack (Philly's former long-time statistician) we also have play-by-play data going back to the late '70s for the 76ers.

https://i.ibb.co/LhSDV67/fmqox74-d.webp

Chuck's net defensive rating (how many points the opponent scored per 100 possessions when he's on the court vs. off it) was -1.1 from 1984-85 to 1989-1990. Meaning, his team was 1.1 points better on defense when he was on the court. Across the entirety of his prime, he probably averages out close to a neutral net defensive rating.


Based on the plus/minus data, Sixers Barkley looks solid on defense until the last two years (1991/1992)

1985: -0.9
1986: -2.3
1987: -4.8
1988: +1.4
1989: -0.4
1990: +0.6

6 Year Average: -1.1 Net DRtg

[AlternativeAcc.]

Giannis two-way play and size just makes it an easy choice between the two. If Giannis isn't surrounded by shooters you can make an argument for rather having Barkley on offense but Giannis' Shaq like interior dominance, passing, and DPOY defense/rim protection is just way more valuable overall. It's not even close in this context. Barkleys mediocre midrange is useless for most teams.

You can talk about his shortcomings on offense but he put up a 35/13/5 on 66% TS performance in the finals. Now imagine him attacking the rim with Kyrie. Klay. and Bird spacing the perimeter and Malone forcing big men out of the paint.

[Manny98]

Just to touch on this... Malone shot 53% on long 2s during his peak 97/98 seasons on high volume.

Jordan during that same time shot 49%, Dirks peak in 2011 he was at 52% which was the highest of his career, and Garnett shot around 45%. Paul in his peak years was also around 45-46%. Kawhi at 44%, Kobe low 40s/high 30s....

So saying Malone doesn't space the floor, especially in the context where hed be surrounded by 3 of the greatest shooters ever, is actually one of the dumbest things ever uttered. Leave it to manny and rr3. :oldlol:
Both Giannis and Malone's playstyles clash, Giannis likes.driving to the basket and kicking out to 3 point shooters whilst Malone's entire game is playing the pick and roll with a point guard, on the court it's not an ideal fit unless you want to reduce Malone to a spot up shooter I guess

[AlternativeAcc.]

Both Giannis and Malone's playstyles clash, Giannis likes.driving to the basket and kicking out to 3 point shooters whilst Malone's entire game is playing the pick and roll with a point guard, on the court it's not an ideal fit unless you want to reduce Malone to a spot up shooter I guess

And Jokic likes passing to 3 point shooters too and you managed to have 1 on the roster who hits them at an elite clip. I guess you forget where I have 3 of the greatest shooters ever for Giannis to kick to. You're just reaching and saying nonsense.

Malone being a spot up midrange shooter and transition freak is fine, actually, and doesn't clash with anything. Teams today actually run the pick n roll far more than the Jazz did in the 90s. Malone was a very versatile offensive player who could easily adapt as a 3rd option scorer.

[iamgine]

Jrue

[tpols]

Is this dude making shitty teams again? :lol

I remember one draft awhile back he picked Yao Ming and Elgin Baylor and a few more really wack picks

Legit had the worst team :roll:

He took Klay and Kyrie super early over guys like peak Pheonix Suns MVP Charles Barkley which speaks for itself.

I get that he sort of handicapped his teams build by having to base it all around Giannis who requires GOAT spacing for his game to be even remotely viable but he could've taken snipers like Petrovic, Peja, or Mark Price way later and scooped MVP talent with his early picks.

And then he wants to start Ewing next to Giannis when Pats whole offense was posting up on the block every possession. Yea he took midrange jumpers and hook shots but his offense started in the post every time. How does that work with giannis head down charge the paint style? There's a reason the Bucks have Brook Lopez @ center. A guy who never posts pretty much and just spots from 3 to give Giannis his driving lane.

And then homeboy has the nerve to criticize other people's teams. :oldlol:

[AlternativeAcc.]

He took Klay and Kyrie super early over guys like peak Pheonix Suns MVP Charles Barkley which speaks for itself.

I get that he sort of handicapped his teams build by having to base it all around Giannis who requires GOAT spacing for his game to be even remotely viable but he could've taken snipers like Petrovic, Peja, or Mark Price way later and scooped MVP talent with his early picks.

And then he wants to start Ewing next to Giannis when Pats whole offense was posting up on the block every possession. Yea he took midrange jumpers and hook shots but his offense started in the post every time. How does that work with giannis head down charge the paint style? There's a reason the Bucks have Brook Lopez @ center. A guy who never posts pretty much and just spots from 3 to give Giannis his driving lane.

And then homeboy has the nerve to criticize other people's teams. :oldlol:
I love how you're genuinely too stupid to realize you are contradicting yourself by saying I should've prioritized MVP talent over fit while also saying the MVP talent I took at center doesn't fit. So which is it you ****ing moron? :lol

Yeah I could've taken guys who don't defend for my bench even though the point of the draft is to build the best starting lineup. Excellent insight.

Brook Lopez isn't actually respected by teams as a lethal shooter and is routinely guarded by forwards. He doesn't actually do anything to open up lanes for giannis. Ewing actually commands attention from centers and has the range to be respected enough to bring them out of the paint. Combine that with three of the greatest shooters ever on outside and you have insane team synergy.

Dude i honestly think there's at least a 50 point IQ gap between the two of us, and it's not in your favor. I destroy you every time you try to spar with me and you always dissappear after I point out how ****ing stupid your half-baked, pseudo-insightful, middle school level opinions are. You keep coming for more because you have more pride than intelligence. It's fascinating stuff. :lol

[tpols]

Brook Lopez isn't actually respected by teams as a lethal shooter and is routinely guarded by forwards. He doesn't actually do anything to open up lanes for giannis. Ewing actually commands attention from centers and has the range to be respected


:roll:

This is probably the most factually incorrect statement ever uttered on this website. Brook Lopez absolutely is respected from 3... he's one of the best 7 foot center 3pt shooters... literally of all time.

And Pat Ewing was a post player. He took jumpers out of the midrange and the post and was generally not efficient on them. His ability and range as a shooter aren't even close to Brook Lopez.

You are totally exposing yourself and that's why people are shitting on your team.

[AlternativeAcc.]

:roll:

This is probably the most factually incorrect statement ever uttered on this website. Brook Lopez absolutely is respected from 3... he's one of the best 7 foot center 3pt shooters... literally of all time.

And Pat Ewing was a post player. He took jumpers out of the midrange and the post and was generally not efficient on them. His ability and range as a shooter aren't even close to Brook Lopez.

You are totally exposing yourself and that's why people are shitting on your team.

He shot 32% from 3 the year they won the finals and was guarded half-ass by forwards. Giannis was literally forced to go 1vs4 against the Sun's defense and still averaged 35 on 66%TS. with a 50pt closeout game.

Pat being a post player means he actually demands attention from centers. You can't just stick forwards on him like you can with Brook.I already explained this but again this is where the IQ thing comes in to play. You have a 70 IQ but the arrogance of a PHD student lol.

Hey man, at least you were right about the Mavs beating the Celtics and the Trump shooting being staged. Just high level stuff spewing from that skinny dome of yours. :bowdown:

[AlternativeAcc.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHPLeWsAQw4



Brook Lopez literally left wide open on every possession while being "guarded" by forwards and guards - shot 23 % from 3 for the series



And now all of a sudden Tpols cares about fit when he was harping on about MVP talent earlier. Low IQ is a nasty thing folks. :roll:

[Manny98]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHPLeWsAQw4



Brook Lopez literally left wide open on every possession while being "guarded" by forwards and guards - shot 23 % from 3 for the series



And now all of a sudden Tpols cares about fit when he was harping on about MVP talent earlier. Low IQ is a nasty thing folks. :roll:

Lopez wasn't left wide open what are you on about, his presence on the court allowed Giannis to get to the basket a lot easier

Ewing is not providing close the amount of spacing that Lopez provided

[tpols]

Lopez wasn't left wide open what are you on about, his presence on the court allowed Giannis to get to the basket a lot easier

Ewing is not providing close the amount of spacing that Lopez provided

Exactly. I can't believe he's even arguing that.

[tpols]

He shot 32% from 3 the year they won the finals and was guarded half-ass by forwards. Giannis was literally forced to go 1vs4 against the Sun's defense and still averaged 35 on 66%TS. with a 50pt closeout game.

Pat being a post player means he actually demands attention from centers. You can't just stick forwards on him like you can with Brook.I already explained this but again this is where the IQ thing comes in to play. You have a 70 IQ but the arrogance of a PHD student lol.

Hey man, at least you were right about the Mavs beating the Celtics and the Trump shooting being staged. Just high level stuff spewing from that skinny dome of yours. :bowdown:


Listen, I'm trying to give you some constructive criticism and healthy advice and you come at me with an attitude? Watch your tone boy.

I'm re-evaluating the draft and given your draft position you could've legit had a team of:

PG - Gary Payton
SG - Reggie Miller
SF - Larry Bird
PF - Charles Barkley
C - Pat Ewing

And then Karl Malone, Dwight, and Webber off the bench...

Literally a 90s ****ing super team and probably would've been one of the best here. But you took guys like kyrie and klay instead super early, who I like... I'm probably one of the biggest kyrie fans on this site and have always rooted for Golden State in the Curry dynasty era... but to take them that early over MVP talent? Totally absurd.

Kyrie legit might not have even gotten drafted in this... there's only 8×8=64 picks. You could've got him in the last round so your picks were just severely bad.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Exactly. I can't believe he's even arguing that.

Yeah, I'm arguing a guy who shot 32% from 3 for the run and given 10 feet of space by guards on every possession isn't actually respected as a lethal shooter and didn't provide elite spacing.

Watch that clip and see Giannis driving in the paint with 4 or 5 guys surrounding him. Now imagine him with Irving, Klay, and Bird on the perimeter instead and you may start to grasp what an intelligent team looks like instead of your insanely shitty team with 1 good 3pt shooter and subpar interior D. Literally one good 3 point shooter on the roster... that's your genius team. ****ing hell. :roll: and youre going off about spacing and fit. 65 IQ. Youre dropping by the post.


Anything else peanut head Timmy?

[AlternativeAcc.]

Literally a 90s ****ing super team and probably would've been one of the best here. But you took guys like kyrie and klay instead super early, who I like... I'm probably one of the biggest kyrie fans on this site and have always rooted for Golden State in the Curry dynasty era... but to take them that early over MVP talent? Totally absurd.

I destroyed your horrendous Brook Lopez take so now you're back on the MVP talent thing.

:roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Listen, I'm trying to give you some constructive criticism and healthy advice and you come at me with an attitude? Watch your tone boy.

I'm re-evaluating the draft and given your draft position you could've legit had a team of:

PG - Gary Payton
SG - Reggie Miller
SF - Larry Bird
PF - Charles Barkley
C - Pat Ewing

And then Karl Malone, Dwight, and Webber off the bench...

Literally a 90s ****ing super team and probably would've been one of the best here. But you took guys like kyrie and klay instead super early, who I like... I'm probably one of the biggest kyrie fans on this site and have always rooted for Golden State in the Curry dynasty era... but to take them that early over MVP talent? Totally absurd.

Kyrie legit might not have even gotten drafted in this... there's only 8×8=64 picks. You could've got him in the last round so your picks were just severely bad.

We done with the 90!

[DJMcDonald]

I didn't realize it was my turn.

I'll take ANDREI KIRILENKO


https://youtu.be/L82qRUzevp0?si=-pJumdtEYJgbjq1w

[j3lademaster]

I didn't realize it was my turn.

I'll take ANDREI KIRILENKO


https://youtu.be/L82qRUzevp0?si=-pJumdtEYJgbjq1w

:applause: Perfect defensive fit next to Dirk and an underrated playmaker.

About time you got someone who can defend the PnR lol

[j3lademaster]

Listen, I'm trying to give you some constructive criticism and healthy advice and you come at me with an attitude? Watch your tone boy.

I'm re-evaluating the draft and given your draft position you could've legit had a team of:

PG - Gary Payton
SG - Reggie Miller
SF - Larry Bird
PF - Charles Barkley
C - Pat Ewing

And then Karl Malone, Dwight, and Webber off the bench...

Literally a 90s ****ing super team and probably would've been one of the best here. But you took guys like kyrie and klay instead super early, who I like... I'm probably one of the biggest kyrie fans on this site and have always rooted for Golden State in the Curry dynasty era... but to take them that early over MVP talent? Totally absurd.

Kyrie legit might not have even gotten drafted in this... there's only 8×8=64 picks. You could've got him in the last round so your picks were just severely bad.Join the next draft, Thurston Pollard.

[Manny98]

Going to fix my two core issues which is spacing and rim protection with these picks

Picking Chauncey with my 6th pick a perfect point guard who can do everything well and was a all NBA defender

Then with my seventh pick I'm going with the Unicorn Porzingis to play next to Jokic he can help space the floor for Barkley and Jokic on offense and provides much needed rim protection and defense


https://youtu.be/czFpMfUnhD4?si=KYLZql8d-x2_MwrD

Going to move Barkley to the bench for fit reasons so I have someone who can give elite offense off the bench when Jokic sits

PG - Billups
SG - Allen
SF - Pippen
PF - Porzingis
C - Jokic

6th man - Barkley
7th man - Manu

[1987_Lakers]

Going to fix my two core issues which is spacing and rim protection with these picks

Picking Chauncey with my 6th pick a perfect point guard who can do everything well and was a all NBA defender

Then with my seventh pick I'm going with the Unicorn Porzingis to play next to Jokic he can help space the floor for Barkley and Jokic on offense and provides much needed rim protection and defense


https://youtu.be/czFpMfUnhD4?si=KYLZql8d-x2_MwrD

Going to move Barkley to the bench for fit reasons so I have someone who can give elite offense off the bench when Jokic sits

PG - Billups
SG - Allen
SF - Pippen
PF - Porzingis
C - Jokic

6th man - Barkley
7th man - Manu

I actually like the move of playing Barkley & Manu off the bench.

[DJMcDonald]

With my next pick I'll be taking THE MATRIX.


https://youtu.be/ipb3nGEP1tA?si=GLShGvDcSnzVeSWj

Nash
Vince
Mac
Dirk
Shaq

AK
Matrix

A certain theme for my team. Got something cooked up for my last pick too.

[dankok8]

I love Billups in 2006. Such an efficient monster and those Pistons teams played at a snail's pace. One of the most underrated PG seasons of all time.

[DJMcDonald]

I love Billups in 2006. Such an efficient monster and those Pistons teams played at a snail's pace. One of the most underrated PG seasons of all time.

I was saving him for my last pick, didn't expect him to get nabbed with all the great PGs left, but he's a great pickup that compliments any team

[ILLsmak]

Join the next draft, Thurston Pollard.

the thing is, there's no objective way to tell whose is better. Do we have some advanced cpu we are plugging the line ups into? I doubt people are even gonna post advanced strategies for offense and defense, which would make a huge difference. They are just gonna be like well these names together = win. Wack.

Not shitting on this idea, cuz I enjoy looking at people's teams, but in the end, how do we know who is better? Who is gonna do a deep dive and who will get the final say? Some dudes who are constantly arguing Kobe v Bron with alts?

-Smak

[Wally450]

the thing is, there's no objective way to tell whose is better. Do we have some advanced cpu we are plugging the line ups into? I doubt people are even gonna post advanced strategies for offense and defense, which would make a huge difference. They are just gonna be like well these names together = win. Wack.

Not shitting on this idea, cuz I enjoy looking at people's teams, but in the end, how do we know who is better? Who is gonna do a deep dive and who will get the final say? Some dudes who are constantly arguing Kobe v Bron with alts?

-Smak

Pretty much. Its just going to be people arguing for pages. I just like to draft a team for the fun of it. I don't care to spend time convincing people mine is the best.

[highwhey]

Seek help.

:oldlol:

[Im Still Ballin]

You guys should determine the winner with three votes:

1) ISH
2) RealGM
3) Someone using 2K to make all the teams and simulate them together in a playoff series or regular season. No injuries.

[ILLsmak]

You guys should determine the winner with three votes:

1) ISH
2) RealGM
3) Someone using 2K to make all the teams and simulate them together in a playoff series or regular season. No injuries.

no barkley on 2k.

-Smak

[1987_Lakers]

You guys should determine the winner with three votes:

1) ISH
2) RealGM
3) Someone using 2K to make all the teams and simulate them together in a playoff series or regular season. No injuries.

:oldlol:

On second thought, that might actually not be a bad idea considering this draft didn't have MJ & Bron which takes away the troll votes, but at the same time some users here straight up hate some posters who are participating this draft which could taint the poll. I know some posters here dislike Alt, dankok, Manny & myself.

There was like a month stretch where I would make a thread and someone would rate it 1 star. I don't know who it was, but who the hell does that? :lol

[RRR3]

:oldlol:

On second thought, that might actually not be a bad idea considering this draft didn't have MJ & Bron which takes away the troll votes, but at the same time some users here straight up hate some posters who are participating this draft. I know some posters here dislike Alt, dankok, Manny & myself.

There was like a month stretch where I would make a thread and someone would rate it 1 star. I don't know who it was, but who the hell does that? :lol
warriorfan

[1987_Lakers]

warriorfan

At first I thought it was full court, but he got perma banned and it still happened. My guess would be warriorfan or proctor. :oldlol:

[j3lademaster]

You guys should determine the winner with three votes:

1) ISH
2) RealGM
3) Someone using 2K to make all the teams and simulate them together in a playoff series or regular season. No injuries.
If I were drafting for 2k sim Luka would be an easy first pick. He averages 35/13/12 on 55/45/75 every sim.

[j3lademaster]

At first I thought it was full court, but he got perma banned and it still happened. My guess would be warriorfan or proctor. :oldlol:
It was me. Revenge for your take on refried beans.

[ILLsmak]

:oldlol:

On second thought, that might actually not be a bad idea considering this draft didn't have MJ & Bron which takes away the troll votes, but at the same time some users here straight up hate some posters who are participating this draft which could taint the poll. I know some posters here dislike Alt, dankok, Manny & myself.

There was like a month stretch where I would make a thread and someone would rate it 1 star. I don't know who it was, but who the hell does that? :lol

People used to neg me and put -smak lol

Dudes are salty. All I want people to do is talk to me. If we got some problem, we can discuss it. I'm cool. Being a closet hater online is sooo weak.

I mean, I don't wanna derail this thread, tho, but it is an issue... the whole how do you know thing, but like dude said, it's fun to talk and think about anyway. It's just crazy people are shitting on people's teams like they have a way to prove something.

Edit: re: 2k, if you can get the rosters right, simcast live is pretty good for real-seeming results. It seems to not have the '3 sec sim' results that raw simming has and it doesn't have the weird problems of cpu v cpu, either. (Like the cpu stone walling itself and shooting a 27 footer with 1 on the shot clock.)

-Smak

[j3lademaster]

Imo just put it on r/nba and just count out the top 5 most upvoted votes.

[iamgine]

Paulina Pierce

[1987_Lakers]

Paulina Pierce

Dankok already took Pierce I believe

[AlternativeAcc.]

With my next pick I'll be taking THE MATRIX.


https://youtu.be/ipb3nGEP1tA?si=GLShGvDcSnzVeSWj

Nash
Vince
Mac
Dirk
Shaq

AK
Matrix

A certain theme for my team. Got something cooked up for my last pick too.

Your team would be fun as hell to watch

[1987_Lakers]

Do we just skip iamgine if he doesn't correct his pick within an hour? His 8 hours are almost up.

[iamgine]

My bad. Dwight Howard

[L.Kizzle]

Can someone update the teams on the first page?

[DJMcDonald]

Can someone update the teams on the first page?

Can't edit posts after a certain time, has to be a mod

[L.Kizzle]

Can't edit posts after a certain time, has to be a mod
You're right. Forgot about that silly rule.

[SouBeachTalents]

Joe Dumars

[AlternativeAcc.]

Derrick White. Celtics best player.

[dankok8]

Just realized he's still available..

Give me Doctor J

Dude can come in as a scorer off the bench, run the offense and he's a major disruptor on defense. One of the best non-big shotblockers ever. Definitely better than many starters on other squads.

[j3lademaster]

SGA

[RRR3]

Just realized he's still available..

Give me Doctor J

Dude can come in as a scorer off the bench, run the offense and he's a major disruptor on defense. One of the best non-big shotblockers ever. Definitely better than many starters on other squads.
You now have 4 players who are absolute ZEROS from 3 in your rotation, that is a pretty big math problem. You're going to have lineups with THREE non-shooters on the floor between Kareem, McHale, Dr. J and Mourning, the spacing will be a disaster.

[1987_Lakers]

Mutombo & OG Anunoby

Final roster

C - Embiid | Mutombo
F - Draymond
F - Kawhi | KD
G - Booker | OG Anunoby
G - Stockton

Think I did well considering I had the last pick. Have a few elite scorers. A couple of playmakers. Roster is stacked with shooters and defenders.

[j3lademaster]

is middleton still on the board? Khris Middleton

[Manny98]

You guys should determine the winner with three votes:

1) ISH
2) RealGM
3) Someone using 2K to make all the teams and simulate them together in a playoff series or regular season. No injuries.

Real GM to decide it is a great idea

[Im Still Ballin]

You now have 4 players who are absolute ZEROS from 3 in your rotation, that is a pretty big math problem. You're going to have lineups with THREE non-shooters on the floor between Kareem, McHale, Dr. J and Mourning, the spacing will be a disaster.

Basketball is more complicated than how many three-point shooters you have on the floor. I don't know how many times I need to repeat this to you over the years.

[ILLsmak]

You're right. Forgot about that silly rule.

when did they put that in?

-Smak

[tpols]

Basketball is more complicated than how many three-point shooters you have on the floor. I don't know how many times I need to repeat this to you over the years.

Especially with super teams. I feel like the main reason today's teams score more is because the role players can bang 3s instead of long 2s with leads to higher offensive output and gives additional spacing to star talent. But when it comes to these super teams, all of that kind of flies out the window.

The 2008 Redeem team didn't have a great 3pt shooting starting lineup. Yet they totally outscored the 2024 team in the championship matches who did. And ironically, they had a Kobe Chris Paul backcourt that apparently "can't shoot". :lol (total joke)

Stars spamming 3s is honestly kind of stupid unless they're steph curry or Durant or something, and even then you're opening yourself up to a ton of variance. Hot and cold... we see it with Tatum types and a lot of other players even Curry himself. Having a team full of superstar 2pt bucket getters is always going to be a sure thing.

[1987_Lakers]

Basketball is more than "how many three points shooters you have", but having them in today's era keeps defenders honest. In today's league if you run any line-up that lack shooters defenses will exploit that, they will just key in on the star players without facing much consequences. And with all due respect to ISB, he ran a Shaq-Russell lineup in one of our previous drafts. I pointed out to him that having Russell play the 4 takes away some of his rim protection and it makes life harder for Shaq on offense since teams could zero in on Shaq since Russell wouldn't provide you any spacing. After the draft, when we ran the poll on realgm multiple users pointed out the same thing when evaluating his team.

[RRR3]

Basketball is more than "how many three points shooters you have", but having them in today's era keeps defenders honest. In today's league if you run any line-up that lack shooters defenses will exploit that, they will just key in on the star players without facing much consequences. And with all due respect to ISB, he ran a Shaq-Russell lineup in one of our previous drafts. I pointed out to him that having Russell play the 4 takes away some of his rim protection and it makes life harder for Shaq on offense since teams could zero in on Shaq since Russell wouldn't provide you any spacing. After the draft, when we ran the poll on realgm multiple users pointed out the same thing when evaluating his team.
DISMAL drafting by ISB, yikes. And he has the nerve to lecture me :oldlol: Bro would get blown off the floor by some of the teams drafted here with that kind of spacing

[tpols]

Basketball is more than "how many three points shooters you have", but having them in today's era keeps defenders honest. In today's league if you run any line-up that lack shooters defenses will exploit that, they will just key in on the star players without facing much consequences. And with all due respect to ISB, he ran a Shaq-Russell lineup in one of our previous drafts. I pointed out to him that having Russell play the 4 takes away some of his rim protection and it makes life harder for Shaq on offense since teams could zero in on Shaq since Russell wouldn't provide you any spacing. After the draft, when we ran the poll on realgm multiple users pointed out the same thing when evaluating his team.

Yea I mean Bill Russell and Shaq is an awkward combination. 2 centers who can't shoot even from midrange.

Danks team has Chris Paul, Kobe, and Paul Pierce on the perimeter. CP3 is a sniper level shooter and Kobe / Pierce are both very good shooters... literally it's the biggest part of their games. Mchale and Kareem didn't need to dunk it every time either they had shooting touch away from the rim. So the criticism here is totally over blown.

Taking Dr. J in like the last round as a bench scorer isn't a bad thing. Guy was part of a GOAT 1983 Sixer team that swept the playoffs and is universally considered a top 20 GOAT and pioneer of basketball. To clown that pick is absurd.

[RRR3]

CP3 isn't a sniper from 3, and has to be pushed to not be low volume there. Kobe was not a good 3PT shooter by modern standards by any means no matter how much you delude yourself. Pierce was a good 3PT shooter, yes. Also there isn't a single team who plays with two bigs who can't shoot 3s now at the same time. Not a single one. It doesn't work. You can get away with a non shooting 5 but not a non shooting 5 and 4.

[tpols]

There isn't a single team today that has Kareem or Kevin McHales level of post and midrange scorer either. Except Jokic and to a lesser extent Embiid.

Not everything comes down to 3s when we're dealing with superstar talent. You're shitting on McHale @ the 4 when he produced a higher offensive output from 2pt range than most stretch 4s do. He had monster efficiency and game inside the arc.

And again Chris Paul is literally one of the best shooting point guards ever. His jumper and spacing were terrific. Kobe even by a haters opinion is a top 15 GOAT and he was mostly a jump shooter whose shot was widely respected and chased after with double teams on the perimeter. To say Kobe couldn't shoot and space the floor is just a total nonsense opinion. And then Pierce obviously could as well. Kareem and Mchale have some of the best big man shooting touch ever too.

That team is not lacking for shooting skill at all.

[j3lademaster]

Basketball is more complicated than how many three-point shooters you have on the floor. I don't know how many times I need to repeat this to you over the years.No one said anyone here should have stacked their teams with Korvers or Kaponos, you just can’t have a deficiency there. Just like defense, you can’t just draft one or two good defenders and expect that to make up for everything.

Well, then again tpols suggested I should have taken Horry over Rasheed Wallace. I felt like my Kidd pick deserved a lot more criticism than my Sheed pick.

[dankok8]

Especially with super teams. I feel like the main reason today's teams score more is because the role players can bang 3s instead of long 2s with leads to higher offensive output and gives additional spacing to star talent. But when it comes to these super teams, all of that kind of flies out the window.

The 2008 Redeem team didn't have a great 3pt shooting starting lineup. Yet they totally outscored the 2024 team in the championship matches who did. And ironically, they had a Kobe Chris Paul backcourt that apparently "can't shoot". :lol (total joke)

Stars spamming 3s is honestly kind of stupid unless they're steph curry or Durant or something, and even then you're opening yourself up to a ton of variance. Hot and cold... we see it with Tatum types and a lot of other players even Curry himself. Having a team full of superstar 2pt bucket getters is always going to be a sure thing.

Not to mention Dr J/McHale/Kareem can all shoot up to 15 feet really well. They just aren't 3pt shooters.

As my last pick, I am going for a monster 3pt shooter though. Give me Glen Rice. Dude shot 44% from 3pt range (!) on 5 attempts a game from 1996-1998 and then was a key player on the 2000 championship Lakers.

[1987_Lakers]

Can people post their rosters while making their final selections?

[Im Still Ballin]

It's just poor logic. Basketball analysis needs to match the reality of the game's complexity. Fans like to simplify things because it makes it easier to understand.

RRR3 is 100% someone who thought replacing Ben Simmons with a star that can shoot would make Philly better but it didn't. Not by any measurable degree. And all these years later the most dangerous the 76ers have ever looked was in the 2019 Playoffs with a lineup of Simmons-Reddick-Butler-Harris-Embiid.

That 2018-19 post-trade starting lineup was ridiculously good. +22.4 per 100 possessions in the regular season and +26.7 per 100 possessions in the playoffs per Cleaning the Glass. And they had one good three-point shooter. Horrible shooting/spacing; that lineup shouldn't have worked according to RRR3 but it did.

If only they had a good bench...

[RRR3]

There isn't a single team today that has Kareem or Kevin McHales level of post and midrange scorer either. Except Jokic and to a lesser extent Embiid.

Not everything comes down to 3s when we're dealing with superstar talent. You're shitting on McHale @ the 4 when he produced a higher offensive output from 2pt range than most stretch 4s do. He had monster efficiency and game inside the arc.

And again Chris Paul is literally one of the best shooting point guards ever. His jumper and spacing were terrific. Kobe even by a haters opinion is a top 15 GOAT and he was mostly a jump shooter whose shot was widely respected and chased after with double teams on the perimeter. To say Kobe couldn't shoot and space the floor is just a total nonsense opinion. And then Pierce obviously could as well. Kareem and Mchale have some of the best big man shooting touch ever too.

That team is not lacking for shooting skill at all.
From midrange, ttrolls, midrange. Yes they were some of the GOAT midrange shooters, but good luck beating 3s with 2s.

[RRR3]

It's just poor logic. Basketball analysis needs to match the reality of the game's complexity.

RRR3 is 100% someone who thought replacing Ben Simmons with a star that can shoot would make Philly better but it didn't. Not by any measurable degree. And all these years later the most dangerous the 76ers have ever looked was in the 2019 Playoffs with a lineup of Simmons-Reddick-Butler-Harris-Embiid.

That 2018-19 post-trade starting lineup was ridiculously good. +22.4 per 100 possessions in the regular season and +26.7 per 100 possessions in the playoffs per Cleaning the Glass. And they had one good three-point shooter. Horrible shooting/spacing; that lineup shouldn't have worked according to RRR3 but it did.
And they lost as soon as they faced a team they couldn't overwhelm with raw talent. They beat the Brooklyn Nets and lost to Kawhi and shooters despite the fact Kawhi could barely move. None of these bad shooting teams drafted are that far ahead of the other teams talent wise.

[RRR3]

Not to mention Dr J/McHale/Kareem can all shoot up to 15 feet really well. They just aren't 3pt shooters.

As my last pick, I am going for a monster 3pt shooter though. Give me Glen Rice. Dude shot 44% from 3pt range (!) on 5 attempts a game from 1996-1998 and then was a key player on the 2000 championship Lakers.
Teams will concede midrange shots even to guys who are good from there though, that's the difference. I'd much rather have one of those elite paint guys shooting midrange shots at 45 TS% then being at the rim or a guy who is capable from 3. You have to shoot 50% from midrange to be equal in value to a guy shooting 33% on 3s.

[1987_Lakers]

Dankok's final roster

C - Kareem | Zo
F - McHale
F - Pierce | Dr. J
G - Kobe | Rice
G - CP3

[Im Still Ballin]

And they lost as soon as they faced a team they couldn't overwhelm with raw talent. They beat the Brooklyn Nets and lost to Kawhi and shooters despite the fact Kawhi could barely move. None of these bad shooting teams drafted are that far ahead of the other teams talent wise.

You are incapable of arguing in good faith. Why do I even bother with you...

https://24.media.tumblr.com/486e18ae6eecfff97fdc19dbc33ab4ca/tumblr_mhqc9iSDIg1qed7g8o2_400.gif

[RRR3]

You are incapable of arguing in good faith. Why do I even bother with you...

https://24.media.tumblr.com/486e18ae6eecfff97fdc19dbc33ab4ca/tumblr_mhqc9iSDIg1qed7g8o2_400.gif
That was in good faith, but ok

[Im Still Ballin]

Steaming.

In all these years on ISH I would've expected you to mature a little.

[1987_Lakers]

Jmaster’s final roster

C- Duncan - Wemby
F -Rasheed
F- Middleton
G - R. Miller - SGA
G - Magic - Kidd

[j3lademaster]

Dankok's final roster

C - Kareem | Zo
F - McHale
F - Pierce | Dr. J
G - Kobe | Rice
G - CP3


Jmaster’s final roster

C- Duncan - Wemby
F -Rasheed
F- Middleton
G - R. Miller - SGA
G - Magic - KiddThanks for doing that.

[Charlie Sheen]

Jmaster’s final roster

C- Duncan - Wemby
F -Rasheed
F- Middleton
G - R. Miller - SGA
G - Magic - Kidd

Middleton sticks out as a fatigued lets get this overwith pick :lol

Would have liked to see another prime time finisher like Worthy or Amare even if it meant playing big in the front court. I think you get more out of Magic and Kidd that way than any gains Middleton's 3pt shot brings.

[dankok8]

Teams will concede midrange shots even to guys who are good from there though, that's the difference. I'd much rather have one of those elite paint guys shooting midrange shots at 45 TS% then being at the rim or a guy who is capable from 3. You have to shoot 50% from midrange to be equal in value to a guy shooting 33% on 3s.

Dude... I have CP3, Kobe, Pierce in my starting lineup all of whom shoot threes well. Ain't nobody leaving them open on the perimeter. And either McHale or Kareem can be 10-12 feet from the basket while the other posts up. No defense is leaving either of them open either. If you're giving Kareem wide open 12 foot sky hooks/jumpers that won't end well for you.

Of course a bigger problem is how is the other team gonna score on me. Four elite defenders plus Pierce and I'm choosing the 2008 version so he was quite good on D as well. My defense is pretty scary probably the best of all the rosters. Don't forget defense is 50% of the game.

[RRR3]

Dude... I have CP3, Kobe, Pierce in my starting lineup all of whom shoot threes well. Ain't nobody leaving them open on the perimeter. And either McHale or Kareem can be 10-12 feet from the basket while the other posts up. No defense is leaving either of them open either. If you're giving Kareem wide open 12 foot sky hooks/jumpers that won't end well for you.

Of course a bigger problem is how is the other team gonna score on me. Four elite defenders plus Pierce and I'm choosing the 2008 version so he was quite good on D as well. My defense is pretty scary probably the best of all the rosters. Don't forget defense is 50% of the game.
When did Kobe shoot 3s well? He shot above league average from 3 as a starter ONCE, and that was mostly in a league where 3PT shooting wasn't prioritized like it is now either. -7% from 3 compared to league average for his career.

[tpols]

Middleton sticks out as a fatigued lets get this overwith pick :lol

Would have liked to see another prime time finisher like Worthy or Amare even if it meant playing big in the front court. I think you get more out of Magic and Kidd that way than any gains Middleton's 3pt shot brings.


Seriously.

When it comes to these superstar teams so many people are overrating the spacing thing like you can't put up huge point totals with guys who are masters at 2pt scoring like the 80s didn't exist where teams averaged record amounts of points.

James Worthy, Chris Webber, Clyde Drexler etc. I believe all didn't get drafted. Some of these guys produced on waaaay higher efficiency than the 3pt spacer types taken.

Moses Malone is a top 15-20 GOAT and didn't even get drafted? Dr. J almost didn't either. The 1983 sixers are in contention for best team ever and those were their top guns. Sidney Moncrief didn't either. These were well rounded superstars.

It's crazy.

[j3lademaster]

Middleton sticks out as a fatigued lets get this overwith pick :lol

Would have liked to see another prime time finisher like Worthy or Amare even if it meant playing big in the front court. I think you get more out of Magic and Kidd that way than any gains Middleton's 3pt shot brings.
lol I think that’s fair criticism. I might have tunnel visioned a bit with that pick.

[RRR3]

Seriously.

When it comes to these superstar teams so many people are overrating the spacing thing like you can't put up huge point totals with guys who are masters at 2pt scoring like the 80s didn't exist where teams averaged record amounts of points.

James Worthy, Chris Webber, Clyde Drexler etc. I believe all didn't get drafted. Some of these guys produced on waaaay higher efficiency than the 3pt spacer types taken.

Moses Malone is a top 15-20 GOAT and didn't even get drafted? Dr. J almost didn't either. Sidney Moncrief didn't either. These were well rounded superstars.

It's crazy.
They were playing against teams who played the same style of ball. Any 80s team would get absolutely obliterated by a modern team. They shot like 5 3s a game and made maybe 1, teams today are making like 14 3s a game. Right off the bat that's almost a 40 point advantage for the modern team.

[tpols]

They were playing against teams who played the same style of ball. Any 80s team would get absolutely obliterated by a modern team. They shot like 5 3s a game and made maybe 1, teams today are making like 14 3s a game. Right off the bat that's almost a 40 point advantage for the modern team.

Again if that happened it would only be because the current teams role players got hot from 3. This is a superstar draft. Not a comparison of an average NBA team from 1985 vs today.

Nobody had any problem taking Bird or Magic or Kareem from the early 80s in the 1st round of this draft two of whom didn't shoot 3s at all but Moses and Dr. J are off the table?

That makes no sense. The 1983 Sixers were one of the most dominant title teams ever and were led by those two players.

[DJMcDonald]

Guys, there are no correct answers here, it's a matter of taste. Some people like to draft era specifc teams, like me, and others like to draft bad teams. It's all good.

[dankok8]

When did Kobe shoot 3s well? He shot above league average from 3 as a starter ONCE, and that was mostly in a league where 3PT shooting wasn't prioritized like it is now either. -7% from 3 compared to league average for his career.

Kobe shot 36% from 3pt on 5 attempts a game in 2008 and took a lot of bailout shots. Trust me, no one leaves Kobe open at the 3pt line. My starting PG/SG/SF are shooting ~15 threes a game at ~40%. And surely much higher than that on open shots when the defense collapses to deal with the Kareem/McHale double monster down low. Besides Rice will get a bunch of Pierce's minutes and he takes 6 threes a game and makes them at a 47% clip!

Just to be clear, these are the years for the players I'm choosing.

PG: 2015 Chris Paul
SF: 2008 Kobe Bryant
SF: 2008 Paul Pierce
PF: 1987 Kevin McHale
C: 1980 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Bench:

1980 Julius Erving
1997 Glen Rice
2000 Alonzo Mourning

[RRR3]

Again if that happened it would only be because the current teams role players got hot from 3. This is a superstar draft. Not a comparison of an average NBA team from 1985 vs today.

Nobody had any problem taking Bird or Magic or Kareem from the early 80s in the 1st round of this draft two of whom didn't shoot 3s at all but Moses and Dr. J are off the table?

That makes no sense. The 1983 Sixers were one of the most dominant title teams ever and were led by those two players.
I would draft Moses or Dr. J if I had 4 other shooters to surround them with, but there are likely better options for non-3PT shooters then them available, which is why they didn't get picked. You can play one guy who's useless from 3, but it's basically impossible to play with 2 guys who literally don't take 3s now.

And no a current team would not need to get hot to beat an 80s team, it's just simple volume. They could shoot 35% on 3s and blow the door off the other team shooting 48% on all twos.

[RRR3]

Kobe shot 36% from 3pt on 5 attempts a game in 2008 and took a lot of bailout shots. Trust me, no one leaves Kobe open at the 3pt line. My starting PG/SG/SF are shooting ~15 threes a game at ~40%. And surely much higher than that on open shots when the defense collapses to deal with the Kareem/McHale double monster down low. Besides Rice will get a bunch of Pierce's minutes and he takes 6 threes a game and makes them at a 47% clip!

Just to be clear, these are the years for the players I'm choosing.

PG: 2015 Chris Paul
SF: 2008 Kobe Bryant
SF: 2008 Paul Pierce
PF: 1987 Kevin McHale
C: 1980 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Bench:

1980 Julius Erving
1997 Glen Rice
2000 Alonzo Mourning
Kobe taking bad shots is not a positive, and he was shooting poorly from 3 even when he played with peak Shaq. Rice is a good pick but you'd have to play him a lot with the rest of that roster and probably not play Erving much at all.

[RRR3]

Guys, there are no correct answers here, it's a matter of taste. Some people like to draft era specifc teams, like me, and others like to draft bad teams. It's all good.
:lol

[dankok8]

Kobe taking bad shots is not a positive, and he was shooting poorly from 3 even when he played with peak Shaq. Rice is a good pick but you'd have to play him a lot with the rest of that roster and probably not play Erving much at all.

Taking bad shots is not a positive but Kobe won't need to carry a big offensive load or take tough shots on this team. He'll shoot when he's open or exploit mismatches and take bad defenders to school. And of course he'll be able to focus a lot on defense.

[j3lademaster]

Seriously.

When it comes to these superstar teams so many people are overrating the spacing thing like you can't put up huge point totals with guys who are masters at 2pt scoring like the 80s didn't exist where teams averaged record amounts of points.

James Worthy, Chris Webber, Clyde Drexler etc. I believe all didn't get drafted. Some of these guys produced on waaaay higher efficiency than the 3pt spacer types taken.

Moses Malone is a top 15-20 GOAT and didn't even get drafted? Dr. J almost didn't either. The 1983 sixers are in contention for best team ever and those were their top guns. Sidney Moncrief didn't either. These were well rounded superstars.

It's crazy.I think we too often give players of the past too much credit while shitting on players today. Khris Middleton shot over 48% from 10-16 and over 45% from 16-3pt FOR HIS CAREER and was clutch in closing out key games in the finals against the Suns… again using the middie… off the dribble too. And he’s a capable secondary/ third playmaker who can give you 4 assists. This is all ON TOP of being a 3 and D player when need be. That being said, a wing who is elite in transition with Magic and Kidd is good criticism.

In contrast, we just assume someone like McHale can play at the top of the key. It’s too bad distance shooting %’s didn’t exist, but doing a quick dive most breakdowns of McHale’s game online doesn’t suggest he has range outside of 12-15.

If we break down his 56 point game


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrm6Ab-iAcU&themeRefresh=1

He had 2 12-15 foot fadeaways and the rest were baby hooks and layups. I’m guilty of it too, earlier in this same thread I suggested he’s probably Laettner level in terms of spacing and I was dead wrong. We assume he’s money from midrange because he’s an all timer known for his skill… and to some degree we still have the “white guy can shoot” mentality when judging players.

Even if you look up Bird highlights to see the spacing McHale provides and it’s nonexistent.

That being said, McHale made it work with Parish, so I don’t see much issue of him playing alongside 1980 KAJ.

But Tpols, no one is out here drafting Kapono and Watanabe. Spacing is crucial, there’s a reason Curry is often considered the goat in terms of offensive impact and for a lot of these teams it isn’t so much living and dying from 3, but being at least respectable from there. You don’t need 5 30 point scorers, no one’s scoring 200 ppg here.

[RRR3]

Taking bad shots is not a positive but Kobe won't need to carry a big offensive load or take tough shots on this team. He'll shoot when he's open or exploit mismatches and take bad defenders to school. And of course he'll be able to focus a lot on defense.
He didn't need to take tough shots when he played with Shaq either. But he did. You're pretending he wouldn't take idiotic shots on your team, but we all know he would. That's just how he played. I once saw him pass up an open 3 and pump fake until he drew the defender close at which point he took a contested 3.

[gbaLL]

yo RA$TA

https://lalweb.blob.core.windows.net/public/lakers/product-marketing/web/history/kobe/kobe-alumni/kobe71213164.jpg

[j3lademaster]

He didn't need to take tough shots when he played with Shaq either. But he did. You're pretending he wouldn't take idiotic shots on your team, but we all know he would. That's just how he played. I once saw him pass up an open 3 and pump fake until he drew the defender close at which point he took a contested 3.
He also took tough shots and shot 47% on the redeem team while Lebron and Wade shot 60 and 67% respectively. Melo took bad shots too and barely shot 40% that run. For some players it’s just in their dna to take those looks. Kobe isn’t going to stop because he’s on a super team, we’ve seen it quite a few times.

[RRR3]

He also took tough shots and shot 47% on the redeem team while Lebron and Wade shot 60 and 67% respectively. Melo took bad shots too and barely shot 40% that run. For some players it’s just in their dna to take those looks. Kobe isn’t going to stop because he’s on a super team, we’ve seen it quite a few times.
Yes, exactly. Plus it's pretty easy to bait Kobe into spamming midrange shots, and while he was undoubtedly deadly from there, teams will take that over 3s because the math is just not going to work. I'm not saying they'd leave Kobe open from midrange because they wouldn't but they'd try to get him to start jacking from there (and he would). Contested midrange shots, even from a guy as good at them as Kobe, isn't going to hold up that well against a modern offense. Or did no one watch the Suns this past playoffs? And they had far more 3PT shooting...

[gbaLL]

me

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/qf1E_40az9o/maxresdefault.jpg

[dankok8]

Kobe just took the vast majority of his team's shots at the end of possessions. Ben Taylor tracked this. So some of Kobe's inefficiency was taking tough shots but a lot of it was "2 seconds left on the clock. I'm not letting Fish take this. I'm taking it." Which is actually good for the team because while it hurts Kobe's efficiency it helps his team's efficiency because role players suck at making pressure shots.

That's why the Lakers for all of the 2000's except the 2005-2007 period had really good offenses. If Kobe was hurting his team, the Lakers wouldn't have been so good offensively. LOL at comparing him to Melo. You guys are jokers.

[RRR3]

Bailout shots from the primary option are hardly exclusive to Kobe. Who said he was hurting his team? His positives outweighed that negative, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a flaw.

[j3lademaster]

Kobe just took the vast majority of his team's shots at the end of possessions. Ben Taylor tracked this. So some of Kobe's inefficiency was taking tough shots but a lot of it was "2 seconds left on the clock. I'm not letting Fish take this. I'm taking it." Which is actually good for the team because while it hurts Kobe's efficiency it helps his team's efficiency because role players suck at making pressure shots.

That's why the Lakers for all of the 2000's except the 2005-2007 period had really good offenses. If Kobe was hurting his team, the Lakers wouldn't have been so good offensively. LOL at comparing him to Melo. You guys are jokers.

Your takeaway is a Kobe to Melo comparisons? That’s incredibly obtuse. I was just giving examples of players who are prone to taking bad shots regardless of their teams.

[John8204]

So it looks to me the top ten undrafted players

So if someone wanted to field a team of undrafted players it would be

C - M.Malone (Gasol)
F - Webber (English)
F - Dantley (Hill)
G - Gervin (Drexler)
G - Isiah (Harden)

[RRR3]

So it looks to me the top ten undrafted players

So if someone wanted to field a team of undrafted players it would be

C - M.Malone (Gasol)
F - Webber (English)
F - Dantley (Hill)
G - Gervin (Drexler)
G - Isiah (Harden)
I could quite literally beat that team with Derrick White as my best player. Harden is your ONLY shooter. That team could easily not make a single 3 if Harden isn't on.

[gbaLL]

Len Bia$ o.d.'d

https://s.abcnews.com/images/Politics/len-bias-basketball-memorial-02-gty-llr-211118_1637292539039_hpMain_16x9_1600.jpg

[DJMcDonald]

To get the thread back on track, remaining picks are:

AlternativeAcc
SouBeachTalents
imagine
DJMcDonald
Manny98

[gbaLL]

Tom Penny probLY od'd

https://www.skateboardstickers.com/cdn/shop/articles/tom-penny-pro-skateboarder-history-and-about-image.jpg?v=1693952312

[Charlie Sheen]

Yes, exactly. Plus it's pretty easy to bait Kobe into spamming midrange shots, and while he was undoubtedly deadly from there, teams will take that over 3s because the math is just not going to work. I'm not saying they'd leave Kobe open from midrange because they wouldn't but they'd try to get him to start jacking from there (and he would). Contested midrange shots, even from a guy as good at them as Kobe, isn't going to hold up that well against a modern offense. Or did no one watch the Suns this past playoffs? And they had far more 3PT shooting...

One of the biggest strengths KAJ, McHale and CP3 bring to the table is consistency. If the strategy is to avoid those wild swings in variance and put pressure on the other team by converting at a higher rate night after night. Wade fits that profile better than Bean. This is the issue more than lack of shooters.

[dankok8]

Bailout shots from the primary option are hardly exclusive to Kobe. Who said he was hurting his team? His positives outweighed that negative, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a flaw.

Ok but it wasn't a major flaw. And most of the guys with higher rTS than Kobe were more conservative with their shots late in the shot clock.

[RRR3]

One of the biggest strengths KAJ, McHale and CP3 bring to the table is consistency. If the strategy is to avoid those wild swings in variance and put pressure on the other team by converting at a higher rate night after night. Wade fits that profile better than Bean. This is the issue more than lack of shooters.
Wade makes the shooting even worse, as much as I love him. Kareem is getting swarmed in the post on that team.

[gbaLL]

WU

https://i.ibb.co/BN9cwwL/brandonturner-osiris-marley-drugs.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/02/Washington_Wizards_logo.svg

[Charlie Sheen]

Seriously.

When it comes to these superstar teams so many people are overrating the spacing thing like you can't put up huge point totals with guys who are masters at 2pt scoring like the 80s didn't exist where teams averaged record amounts of points.

James Worthy, Chris Webber, Clyde Drexler etc. I believe all didn't get drafted. Some of these guys produced on waaaay higher efficiency than the 3pt spacer types taken.

Moses Malone is a top 15-20 GOAT and didn't even get drafted? Dr. J almost didn't either. The 1983 sixers are in contention for best team ever and those were their top guns. Sidney Moncrief didn't either. These were well rounded superstars.

It's crazy.

I did not hate the Middleton pick. He is a great complementary player. Definitely liked it more than Moncrief. No disrepect to Sid but these exercises invite a lot more participation when it is not bogged down by picking players most here never saw play.

[Charlie Sheen]

Wade makes the shooting even worse, as much as I love him. Kareem is getting swarmed in the post on that team.

Forget spacing and 3pt shooting. What does it matter for this team? Their strength on offense is they will have lesser swings of variance in fg% from game to game. Would this team make it through 3 rounds of a playoff format against teams filled out with shooters taking a higher 3pa%? Very unlikely. But playing to their strength gives them a much better shot at winning 1 or even 2 rounds.

[gbaLL]

LOOK

https://i.ibb.co/XbcnyMR/jw-article.png

[AlternativeAcc.]

Eddie Jones. At his peak he was about 38% from 3 on good volume and comfortably led the league in steals. Elite defender and transition beast. Great size/length


Final roster

G: Kyrie - Derrick White
G: Klay - Eddie Jones
F: Bird
F: Giannis - Malone
C: Ewing


Giannis won a ring with abysmal spacing and the worst 3pt% for a finals winning team since the 04 Pistons, so surrounding him with elite 3 point shooters and bigs with range would be disgusting.

Really good combination of shooting from all levels, rim-running, post-play, and transition. Defensively there's plenty of size and rim protection. Also have the flexibility to run a small ball lineup with Giannis at center depending on the matchup.

[RRR3]

Eddie Jones. At his peak he was about 38% from 3 on good volume and comfortably led the league in steals. Elite defender and transition beast. Great size/length


Final roster

G: Kyrie - Derrick White
G: Klay - Eddie Jones
F: Bird
F: Giannis - Malone
C: Ewing


Giannis won a ring with abysmal spacing and the worst 3pt% for a finals winning team since the 04 Pistons, so surrounding him with elite 3 point shooters and bigs with range would be disgusting.

Really good combination of shooting from all levels, rim-running, post-play, and transition. Defensively there's plenty of size and rim protection. Also have the flexibility to run a small ball lineup with Giannis at center depending on the matchup.
The Bucks shot nearly 39% from 3 on high volume the year they won a ring what are you talking about? Everyone in their rotation besides Giannis was at least competent from 3

[SouBeachTalents]

I'll take Bosh with the last pick

Starting 5

Price
Wade
Tatum
AD
Hakeem

Bench

Dumars
Butler
Bosh

[AlternativeAcc.]

The Bucks shot nearly 39% from 3 on high volume the year they won a ring what are you talking about? Everyone in their rotation besides Giannis was at least competent from 3

They shot 32% for the entire playoff run.

[RRR3]

They shot 32% for the entire playoff run.
So? That's a much smaller sample size and you realize the spacing is still in effect because those shooters still get guarded even if they're bricking? No one is rotating out to Karl Malone or Ewing at the 3pt line