Wilbury or no?

[Kblaze8855]

I don’t think I’ve said anything for a while. I’ve not been sitting around with nothing to do thinking of nonsense to pass the time as much as usual lately. Been busy with a lot of things that wouldn’t interest you to hear about. But now I’m sitting in this parking lot while my youngest niece and unofficially adoptive,
daughter is having a meeting with her college advisor so….here we are. I’ll explain my question in video form to make it easy.



https://youtu.be/QxxY62qhxK0?si=9yijExZDnbTNQEqU


Concept clear? Is not necessarily all about ability. There’s a certain something which I can’t bring myself to seriously describe as “Je ne sais quoi” but will do so anyway, because I’m sure you know what I mean. It’s abstract. But it’s definitely there. It isn’t just a mount Rushmore. It isn’t necessarily about being top _____ all time or of your era.

Dwight Howard…elite player in his day. Not a Wilbury. Karl Malone. One of the best of his time and at his position ever. Not a Wilbury. Tim Duncan? All time elite. But a tossup. Larry Bird? Same tier as Duncan…but obviously a Wilbury. Magic is a Wilbury. Moses Malone was widely considered better than both at one time. But not a Wilbury. So we aren’t just talking greatness.

Lets say a(much like real life) panel of largely dead inarguable legends of the game in general(players…coaches…whoever) who have that certain something are discussing it. Answering immediately if someone fits the description and should be considered for inclusion.

Lets say this Basketball Traveling Wilburys is at the moment made up of….

Jordan, Kobe, Bill Russell, and um….Pat Riley.

Names are being thrown out to possibly join their supergroup.


Who do you imagine gets the nod?



Lets say the first list of names is…



Lebron
Pop
Duncan
KD
Chick Hearn
Jokic
Steph
Wade
Dirk
Shaq
Phil Jackson
Doctor J
KG

Who do you imagine gets the nod for possible future lineups?


i’m not sure if anyone else in the current league is on track for consideration. Anthony Edwards has some of the abstract. Luka has the ability. But Harden had the ability and he is definitely not on the list. Tatum is no Wilbury. Giannis is missing something. Westbrook isn’t there. Chris Paul isn’t. Time has to tell. Pistol Pete might make the cut before Chris Paul and he definitely wasn’t better at basketball. Isiah Thomas might make it if Jordan weren’t voting. But he isn’t better at basketball than KD who…I think might not.

The abstract part is what makes it tough.

The four I mentioned are discussing putting together a second group of four. Do you think they could get four out of the players I mentioned? If you through some mockery of justice had the final call….could you confidently stand behind 4 additions?

[tpols]

If it basically means charisma Shaq is a definite Wilbury.


https://youtu.be/q6fALt84dt4?si=nFUaKH4IQktz-3CW

Charles Barkley as well.

[Kblaze8855]

It can’t be as Simple as greatness plus charisma because we would have guys like Gary Payton in the group.

I don’t know that the names in question would accept Barkley either. I feel like it might be something they strongly gatekeep. I don’t think there’s a single criteria.

[tpols]

I read an article on the definition and maybe Walt Frazier the Knicks announcer would fit the bill. Or Dr. J.

[Neal Romer]

So basically substance/greatness defined by the respect of elite peers, not just media greatness via record sales, image and hype. Whose name up on the marquee with the rest of the group doesnt feel like it cheapens their status.

Lebron obviously. I think last years mvp top 3 Jokic, SGA, Luka. Edwards is getting there. KD would probably have opinions divided, not because of his game but his toughness. I think Booker has a lot of the qualities but maybe just misses in terms of level of impact. Jimmy Butthead likewise.

I think thats about it right now. Giannis' mentality is respected but not his skills. Embiid vice versa. I'm not sure what all time greats think of Curry tbh. Extremely skilled and accomplished, do old heads see him as a guy theyd respect on the court or a fancyboy product of a new era? I honestly dont know.

[Neal Romer]

Also Pippen is definitely a Wilbury. The real OG's know whats up and hold Pip in elite regard.

[Kblaze8855]

I read an article on the definition and maybe Walt Frazier the Knicks announcer would fit the bill. Or Dr. J.

Doc definitely makes it for people I would say 45 and up. But few people under that age really realize what he meant to fans of a certain age. I barely even caught the doctor J hype and I actually do remember him playing and being really good. He just wasn’t as good as his reputation by the time I was of an age to understand what was happening. I existed when he was himself, but it was probably like you and Penny or someone like that.

He was a legend bigger than basketball at one time. He was more beloved than maybe anyone in the game by the mid 80s and I didn’t quite get it at the time….even while emulating him all my childhood since I also had big hands and loved to show off that I could half ass palm it.

Doc probably doesn’t make it to anyone under 40.

[Kblaze8855]

So basically substance/greatness defined by the respect of elite peers, not just media greatness via record sales, image and hype. Whose name up on the marquee with the rest of the group doesnt feel like it cheapens their status.



Since I made this I’ve found many discussions on other subjects. People are stingy with it. A golf one I found had a lot of people not including Tiger or Jack Nicklaus which shocked me.

People lean heavily on the cool aspect. And I get it I suppose. A guy like Durant just…feeeeeeels off. Goat level pure baller. But he doesn’t quite feel like it.

[Neal Romer]

Doc definitely makes it for people I would say 45 and up. But few people under that age really realize what he meant to fans of a certain age. I barely even caught the doctor J hype and I actually do remember him playing and being really good. He just wasn’t as good as his reputation by the time I was of an age to understand what was happening. I existed when he was himself, but it was probably like you and Penny or someone like that.

He was a legend bigger than basketball at one time. He was more beloved than maybe anyone in the game by the mid 80s and I didn’t quite get it at the time….even while emulating him all my childhood since I also had big hands and loved to show off that I could half ass palm it.

Doc probably doesn’t make it tv anyone under 40.


His musical analog to me is Bootsy Collins.

Not necessarily a top 10 catalog song for song, but his style, creativity, panache influenced so many later icons from the Chili Peppers to NWA.

[Kblaze8855]

When he retired people were comparing him to Muhammad Ali, Jackie Robinson, and Joe Dimaggo(another guy younger fans wouldn’t realize was idolized). It wasn’t so much a basketball thing as like a general society wide appreciation of a classy legend.

And then 5 years later it was like he never existed.

[Overdrive]

While I get what is meant in the clip in reality the Wilburys didn't have that "swag".
If you look at them: It's the recluse, introverted Beatle who turned to eastern ideology.
A master of his craft while not giving a shit about his image in Dylan.
A hasbeen who's career got resurrected by being in the Wilburys in Orbison.
A band leader and songwriter that wrote music for middle aged fly over state women. Don't get me wrong I like Petty, but I find most music enjoyable. He was great, but boring.
And a legend that worked as much in the background for other artists as he did for himself in Lynne.

If I did NBA comparisons based on that it would be:
Harrison - Kareem
Dylan - Jokic
Orbison - Ray Allen
Petty - ZBo
Lynne - West

Based on that what does it take to be a Wilbury? In the clip it sounds like something epic, but in the end it's more like the #2 band of that one Simpsons episode. Except for Jokic and that also applies for the Wilburys. As much as I like every single artist in them they all fall short in terms of stardom, influence and charisma except for Dylan. That clip makes it seem like the Wilburys were Dylan, Hendrix, Jagger, McCartney and Angus Young.

[Kblaze8855]

You could also put them down as the greatest singer ever(not that I agree but you’d be surprised how many say that of Orbison), the greatest lyricist ever, one of the best men in the shadows ever in Lynne, and a guy who was in a group with two of the biggest legends ever who had quite a few people prefer his work to theirs. That said I don’t totally disagree with you. The descriptions make it seem like Elton John, Freddie Mercury, and Jagger should be involved. But a group can only have so many. The two people I’m surprised were never involved are McCartney and Eric Clapton. They did get Gary Moore in there, which is enough for me, but I know he isn’t a name that stands out.

But really this is why it isn’t a question of simply being the best. It’s not a mount Rushmore of music. Buy these guys kind of made the soundtrack to a couple eras and a lot of songs non-fans of theirs have been hearing their entire life without realizing who made it.

Lynne especially. Elo may have more “Ohhhhh….I do know that” songs than anyone. Songs you’ve been hearing in movies and shows your whole life without knowing the titles. Orbison is also like that. People who think they don’t know who that is hear Pretty Woman or Only the lonely and realize they have heard him in the background 50000 times.