Cooper Flagg Discussion Thread

[ShawkFactory]

Duncan stayed, MJ had two years, Bird had two years etc.

It's been said, but Flagg doesn't need any seasoning in a "how the game is played" sense. He has an extremely high BBIQ and there is nothing the college game is going to teach him at this point.

[Im Still Ballin]

Guys like Ace Bailey and VJ Edgecombe are more so guys who'd benefit from staying in college. But even then, there's no guarantee they'd benefit because it ultimately comes down to the individual and their personality. It may just result in reinforcing bad habits because of the larger, primary role. Hero ball/ISO type of stuff.

[ShawkFactory]

Cooper with 24/6/5 in a 63 point defensive slugfest. Beast

[Manny98]

Flagg going to be the biggest White American star since Larry Bird

[90sgoat]

Flagg going to be the biggest White American star since Larry Bird

Yep, I completely agree.

We also know what he will look like because we have Franz Wagner who plays almost exactly the same game, except is less mobile and less athletic and much worse on defense.

Coop is around 6-8 to 6-9 so he moves like a wing, but has length like a big man.

Probably will average something like 20-8-5 in his rookie season, then quickly hit 25-10-7-2-2 or something like that.

[Im Still Ballin]

Cooper with 24/6/5 in a 63 point defensive slugfest. Beast

One of his most impressive games.

:applause:

[Im Still Ballin]

He did it again. This ***** done flew the Coop and raised the Flagg!

:applause:

- 28 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 1 turnover
- 8/17 FG, 1/4 3PT, 11/13 FT

[GOBB]

Guys like Ace Bailey and VJ Edgecombe are more so guys who'd benefit from staying in college. But even then, there's no guarantee they'd benefit because it ultimately comes down to the individual and their personality. It may just result in reinforcing bad habits because of the larger, primary role. Hero ball/ISO type of stuff.

Ace Bailey does not need to stay in college for another year. He’s a better scorer than Flagg. What does another year in college do? Nothing.

[Im Still Ballin]

Ace Bailey does not need to stay in college for another year. He’s a better scorer than Flagg. What does another year in college do? Nothing.

Never said he should.

He wouldn't benefit from staying because he's a low IQ player (0.9 apg, 2.2 topg, 5.9 AST%, 10.7 TO% vs. 29.7 USG%) and I don't think he has the personality to change those bad habits. He doesn't have a good feel for the five-on-five game; he doesn't strike me as a guy who'll ever "get it." So what's the point?

And Flagg is the better scorer right now:

Flagg: 19.9 ppg (37.7 per 100), 59.3% TS
Bailey: 19.8 ppg (33.6 per 100), 54.6% TS

Scores more and on comfortably higher efficiency. The only aspect Ace is better at is perimeter shooting. Cooper's superior rim pressure and foul-drawing/free-throw shooting are too great of an advantage. And when you add the other aspects of offense it's a landslide in favor of Cooper.

[Im Still Ballin]

Since his 18th birthday:

- 9 games played; 33.0 minutes per game
- 23.9 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.2 spg, 1.0 bpg, 3.2 tov
- 63.5% 2pt, 42.9% 3pt, 84.9% ft, 69.5% true shooting

Recent form is heavily in Flagg's favor. He's putting up monster stats in a lot of high-leverage games. The last two have been really impressive.

[GOBB]

Never said he should.

He wouldn't benefit from staying because he's a low IQ player (0.9 apg, 2.2 topg, 5.9 AST%, 10.7 TO% vs. 29.7 USG%) and I don't think he has the personality to change those bad habits. He doesn't have a good feel for the five-on-five game; he doesn't strike me as a guy who'll ever "get it." So what's the point?

And Flagg is the better scorer right now:

Flagg: 19.9 ppg (37.7 per 100), 59.3% TS
Bailey: 19.8 ppg (33.6 per 100), 54.6% TS

Scores more and on comfortably higher efficiency. The only aspect Ace is better at is perimeter shooting. Cooper's superior rim pressure and foul-drawing/free-throw shooting are too great of an advantage. And when you add the other aspects of offense it's a landslide in favor of Cooper.

Damn the glaze is real

[ShawkFactory]

Damn the glaze is real

Is it? I've watched both play many times thus far and Flagg is quite easily the better basketball player. Like it's really not close.

[Neal Romer]

Is it? I've watched both play many times thus far and Flagg is quite easily the better basketball player. Like it's really not close.

GOBB's black half resents all the white players.

Surprised ESPN hasnt offered him a job.

[tontoz]

Nobody going lottery is going to stay in college first of all.

Secondly Flagg and Ace are somewhat opposit as players on offense. Flagg is certainly better but Ace is still a very good prospect, just a hard one to project. Flagg excels at the things Ace struggles with, scoring inside and playmaking. But Ace can do things on the perimeter that few players can do.

Ace has already improved on some of his bad habits relative to earlier in the season. It isnt that easy to get assists on that team. I have seen him make a lot of good passes that would have resulted in assists if not for the lack of talent he's playing with.

[GOBB]

Is it? I've watched both play many times thus far and Flagg is quite easily the better basketball player. Like it's really not close.

I never said he wasn’t the better basketball player. I said he was a better scorer and didn’t need another year in college as the other guy implied. By saying he has low IQ.

[ShawkFactory]

I never said he wasn’t the better basketball player. I said he was a better scorer and didn’t need another year in college as the other guy implied. By saying he has low IQ.

Fair enough. But even that is debatable.

He's a better pure shot maker, but he doesn't have the strength or touch to finish that well inside and he doesn't get to the line nearly like he should. Those are two big parts to scoring IMO.

[GOBB]

Fair enough. But even that is debatable.

He's a better pure shot maker, but he doesn't have the strength or touch to finish that well inside and he doesn't get to the line nearly like he should. Those are two big parts to scoring IMO.

I agree with that.

[90sgoat]

Ace has already improved on some of his bad habits relative to earlier in the season. It isnt that easy to get assists on that team. I have seen him make a lot of good passes that would have resulted in assists if not for the lack of talent he's playing with.

0.9 assists in college projects as a bust, don't really need to know more.

Going to be a black hole, scorer of the bench kind of guy at best.

[tontoz]

0.9 assists in college projects as a bust, don't really need to know more.

Going to be a black hole, scorer of the bench kind of guy at best.

In other words you haven't watched any of his games. Very few of his assist worthy passes actually get converted.

FYI Durant averaged 1.3 assists in college.

[90sgoat]

In other words you haven't watched any of his games. Very few of his assist worthy passes actually get converted.

FYI Durant averaged 1.3 assists in college.

I think I've seen a mixtape, he's some kind of tall wing who can drive and shoot, but doesn't look like he'll be elite in either.

[tontoz]

I think I've seen a mixtape, he's some kind of tall wing who can drive and shoot, but doesn't look like he'll be elite in either.


Exactly. You have no clue.

[tontoz]

Ace just dropped 37 with an 82% TS without Harper.



https://youtu.be/2kQ8wOKO1Ss?si=f_2tdQh288oie29r

[90sgoat]

RJ Barrett

[tontoz]

RJ Barrett


Ace shoots 3s 10% better than RJ did in college.

[ShawkFactory]

RJ Barrett

No. RJ took his fair share of 3s in college but he was best as a slasher/finisher.

[90sgoat]

Still looks a lot like RJ Barrett.

I watched that clip and it's obvious he is a black hole, iso specialist.

If you want to be kind, you can compare to Melo.

Actually that is a good comparison except he is skinnier, but all these zoomers are lanky and weak.

[tontoz]

Still looks a lot like RJ Barrett.

I watched that clip and it's obvious he is a black hole, iso specialist.

If you want to be kind, you can compare to Melo.

Actually that is a good comparison except he is skinnier, but all these zoomers are lanky and weak.


Try actually watching a game. Then you won't sound so ridiculous.

[90sgoat]

Try actually watching a game. Then you won't sound so ridiculous.

You don't see the Melo, iso, stop play, jab step, shoot?

[tontoz]

You don't see the Melo, iso, stop play, jab step, shoot?


No. Melo was known for his strength and a quick first step. Ace is known for neither. Melo used to bully guys all the time.

Ace is known for for shooting all kinds of jumpers, including movement 3s off the catch ala Klay. Melo not so much.

Ace is also a good shot blocker and lob threat. Moves well off the ball.

[GOBB]

You don't see the Melo, iso, stop play, jab step, shoot?

Be honest. How many games have you watched of Ace Bailey? You talk like someone who is going off solely on stats and the highlight you saw? You are looking for any thing that supports what conclusion you drew up in your head from the stats you read online. It’s ok to say I haven’t watched this kid play a full game. And proceed to ask questions what you don’t know or are curious about to people who have. What’s hard about that? Lose the pride. You don’t know everything about everyone. No one does.

[tontoz]

Just got done watching the game. The first half was the show. After 5:30 of play Rutgers had only 4 pts and Ace hadn't taken a shot. Then he just went off.

He scored 24 in the half and didn't even play the last 2 minutes so he scored 24 in about 12 minutes of game time.

He hit a couple of nice jump hooks. Haven't seen that much from him this season, if at all.

Nice to see him hitting his foul shots. He had the yips at the line earlier in the season. He's made 23 of his last 25 at the line.

[Jasper]

Be honest. How many games have you watched of Ace Bailey? You talk like someone who is going off solely on stats and the highlight you saw? You are looking for any thing that supports what conclusion you drew up in your head from the stats you read online. It’s ok to say I haven’t watched this kid play a full game. And proceed to ask questions what you don’t know or are curious about to people who have. What’s hard about that? Lose the pride. You don’t know everything about everyone. No one does.

10 4

[90sgoat]

Be honest. How many games have you watched of Ace Bailey? You talk like someone who is going off solely on stats and the highlight you saw? You are looking for any thing that supports what conclusion you drew up in your head from the stats you read online. It’s ok to say I haven’t watched this kid play a full game. And proceed to ask questions what you don’t know or are curious about to people who have. What’s hard about that? Lose the pride. You don’t know everything about everyone. No one does.

Bruh, I don't try to be right at all, I'm trying to make wild conclusions from very little because it's fun if I get it right.

[ralph_i_el]

Ace is playing like the demon version of Dirk right now. These are big man shooter faceup buckets. The shot release point is almost unblockable, the release is pure, and the footwork into jumpers is elite.

People want to throw out Durant comps, but he had more guard in his game.

[GOBB]

I remember when unc vs Duke were fun rivalries to watch. And then we get this…

[ShawkFactory]

I remember when unc vs Duke were fun rivalries to watch. And then we get this…

It still is usually great. Duke is just a wagon and UNC is having a down year. It happens.

[Im Still Ballin]

Ace is playing like the demon version of Dirk right now. These are big man shooter faceup buckets. The shot release point is almost unblockable, the release is pure, and the footwork into jumpers is elite.

People want to throw out Durant comps, but he had more guard in his game.

Michael Porter Jr with defensive upside maybe? The penetration/rim pressure game is what separates AJ Dybantsa and Ace Bailey.

[GOBB]

It still is usually great. Duke is just a wagon and UNC is having a down year. It happens.

Just expected it to be more competitive.

[tontoz]

I haven't watched Duke in awhile. Once Flagg started hitting his jumper it was obvious he was a lock at 1. I am more interested in the other guys.

I think the rest of the top 6, not sure about the order, is:

Harper
Ace
Kasparas
Tre Johnson
Edgecomb

[ShawkFactory]

I haven't watched Duke in awhile. Once Flagg started hitting his jumper it was obvious he was a lock at 1. I am more interested in the other guys.

I think the rest of the top 6, not sure about the order, is:

Harper
Ace
Kasparas
Tre Johnson
Edgecomb

I’d take Edgecomb over Johnson as a prospect for sure. Johnson is probably a little better right now but I don’t know that he’ll ever be more than just a decent to good bucket-getter. Edgecomb has far more upside to me.

[tontoz]

I’d take Edgecomb over Johnson as a prospect for sure. Johnson is probably a little better right now but I don’t know that he’ll ever be more than just a decent to good bucket-getter. Edgecomb has far more upside to me.

I'm not sure about that. Tre is taller and much more skilled. He is very good at movement 3s off the catch but doesn't get that many opportunities on this team. He is mostly creating his own looks.

Put a smaller guy on him and he will post them up and score routinely.

Apparently the coaches have to monitor his practice habits to prevent him from working too hard and wearing himself out.

I haven't seen much shot creation from VJ. Hard to tell if he can't do it or is just too conservative. Definitely a freak athlete.

[Im Still Ballin]

Haven't updated this thread in a while. Huge game tonight:

- 28 points, 8 rebounds, 7 assists, 2 steals, 3 blocks, 1 turnover
- 10/16 FG, 3/6 3PT, 5/6 FT

May have won NPOY with this performance tonight. There's one game left and he leads Basketball Reference's BPM, Bart Torvik's BPM, KenPom and EvanMiya's NPOY rankings.

[GOBB]

If Sixers can get lucky and get a top 3 pick or win the lottery? Still don’t think whomever they take helps next season. Anyone think Flagg would make a different on a healthy (tried to type that without laughing) Sixers team? What is he going to play like a Thaddeus Young type role?

[BarberSchool]

I haven't watched Duke in awhile. Once Flagg started hitting his jumper it was obvious he was a lock at 1. I am more interested in the other guys.

I think the rest of the top 6, not sure about the order, is:

Harper
Ace
Kasparas
Tre Johnson
EdgecombI still don’t think he’ll be the Garnett type defensive presence they imagined.

He’s 6’9”, not 7’0”
Def has his J more polished, but I’m still not wowed with any specific offensive movement.

His overall ability to cover ground on both ends is impressive. Great athlete, with much better natural strength than his lanky looks indicate. But I don’t see instant superstar. I see solid player, but not a perennial all-star, unless he develops some signature offensive game.

He does have one specific move that can become a sort of “signature highlight”, but it’s not something you can use countless times a game to produce: shot fake to pivot, pivot into an open lane and lob it off the glass to yourself for a two hand monster dunk.

[tontoz]

Flagg is leading the NCAA in some advanced stats as a freshman. He is definitely an elite prospect. Not on the same tier as Wemby/LeBron/Shaq but still elite.

Garnett was a soft jump shooter that didn't put much pressure on the rim. Flagg gets to the rim a lot.

I see Flagg more as a modern Ak47 but stronger and a better shooter.

[Im Still Ballin]

A bigger, better shooting Jimmy Butler is a comp I've heard over on RealGM. I like it. Bigger to the tune of 2" in height, 5-7" in wingspan, and 5-7" in standing reach. And much longer strides/relatively higher center of gravity.

[90sgoat]

The other forum are complete retards, they had to change their tune quickly no Flagg though. The other forum is the basketball version of Reddit, while ISH is the basketball version of X.

[ralph_i_el]

I still don’t think he’ll be the Garnett type defensive presence they imagined.

He’s 6’9”, not 7’0”
Def has his J more polished, but I’m still not wowed with any specific offensive movement.

His overall ability to cover ground on both ends is impressive. Great athlete, with much better natural strength than his lanky looks indicate. But I don’t see instant superstar. I see solid player, but not a perennial all-star, unless he develops some signature offensive game.

He does have one specific move that can become a sort of “signature highlight”, but it’s not something you can use countless times a game to produce: shot fake to pivot, pivot into an open lane and lob it off the glass to yourself for a two hand monster dunk.

Earlier in this thread, I had a similar opinion on his offense, but that's changed for me. He's been so good facing up and using the triple threat, and pulling up in a number of different ways for jumpers. I've seen significant improvement to the touch on his J.

[GOBB]

Flagg has a chance to really be great at scoring. Hope he finds the right folks to work out with. Like Tatum did. Would suck if he was just really good.

[fourkicks44]

Big games coming up in regards to lottery odds.

Nets vs Hornets tonight
Wizards vs Raps playing twice

Jazz come to Philadelphia tomorrow night with
The Sixers on a back to back

Pels on back to back with Rockets and Memphis

Toronto are putting in their best effort to get into the play in. Brooklyn need to rest Cam Thomas because he keeps trying to win games.

[tontoz]

Big games coming up in regards to lottery odds.

Nets vs Hornets tonight
Wizards vs Raps playing twice

Jazz come to Philadelphia tomorrow night with
The Sixers on a back to back

Pels on back to back with Rockets and Memphis

Toronto are putting in their best effort to get into the play in. Brooklyn need to rest Cam Thomas because he keeps trying to win games.

Yesterday the Hornets lost by one point to the Cavs :mad:

[GOBB]

Big games coming up in regards to lottery odds.

Nets vs Hornets tonight
Wizards vs Raps playing twice

Jazz come to Philadelphia tomorrow night with
The Sixers on a back to back

Pels on back to back with Rockets and Memphis

Toronto are putting in their best effort to get into the play in. Brooklyn need to rest Cam Thomas because he keeps trying to win games.

With 21 wins they are 6th right now. Hope we lose the rest of the games this season.

Cooper plays in 30mins

[fourkicks44]

Flagg injured and in a wheelchair.

Raps beat the Sixers last night and fall to the 5th worst record in the league meaning they are likely to keep their pick

[Lakers Legend#32]

March Madness becomes March Sadness.

[999Guy]

This guy is way more advanced offensively than I assumed based on how people talked about him after the summer. He's clearly good NBA starter level offensively already. It's crazy to think most of his hype was based on defense.

[tontoz]

This guy is way more advanced offensively than I assumed based on how people talked about him after the summer. He's clearly good NBA starter level offensively already. It's crazy to think most of his hype was based on defense.


He got off to a slow start with his jumper. He also was pretty turnover prone early on. Once his jumper started falling it became obvious he would be the top pick.

[Im Still Ballin]

Just won the Oscar Robinson NPOY. He's the fourth (KD, AD, Zion) freshman to win the award. He's the youngest of them and did it in a much tougher college playing environment with NIL, the portal transfer, and super seniors due to COVID.

Still have the AP and Naismith NPOY awards to go.

[GOBB]

Just won the Oscar Robinson NPOY. He's the fourth (KD, AD, Zion) freshman to win the award. He's the youngest of them and did it in a much tougher college playing environment with NIL, the portal transfer, and super seniors due to COVID.

Still have the AP and Naismith NPOY awards to go.

Tougher college environment? That’s a stretch.

[Carbine]

I don't see superstar. He's not good enough with the ball in his hands and he's never going to be an off ball 3 pt assassin like Curry.

I also think his defense as it relates to the NBA level is way overrated. He's not a generational perimeter/interior defender combo at all.

#2 guy on a title team most likely. Still great to have.

[Neal Romer]

I don't see superstar. He's not good enough with the ball in his hands and he's never going to be an off ball 3 pt assassin like Curry.

I also think his defense as it relates to the NBA level is way overrated. He's not a generational perimeter/interior defender combo at all.

#2 guy on a title team most likely. Still great to have.


Thats what I see at this point too. Altho Id qualify it by saying hes still years away from his prime. So he could still be due for significant improvement on where he is now. His natural combination of tools/instincts will be pretty good by NBA standards, but they dont feel historic. As Ive said all along, I see a Franz Wagner type, borderline allstar who can be a net plus on a good team. But not a perennial MVP candidate most likely.

[GimmeThat]

seems like the very typical jock in high school who was a complete meat head

[ShawkFactory]

I think his mentality is something being overlooked quite a bit here. He's an absolute warrior and competitor of the highest level already, and the improvements he's made to his game just this year alone suggest to me that he's not done growing on offense in the slightest. He's stronger and more of a dog than Franz, albeit not as smooth. At least not yet.

I see kind of a Pippen level player. Never a true MVP guy but perhaps a top 5-10 guy in the league in his best years and potentially an enormous contributor on a team that wins titles.

[GOBB]

I think his mentality is something being overlooked quite a bit here. He's an absolute warrior and competitor of the highest level already, and the improvements he's made to his game just this year alone suggest to me that he's not done growing on offense in the slightest. He's stronger and more of a dog than Franz, albeit not as smooth. At least not yet.

I see kind of a Pippen level player. Never a true MVP guy but perhaps a top 5-10 guy in the league in his best years and potentially an enormous contributor on a team that wins titles.

Ultimate glue guy.

[GimmeThat]

Ultimate glue guy.


if mentality is a factor, he's more or less a mix of Andre Iguodala and Scottie Barnes.

[GOBB]

if mentality is a factor, he's more or less a mix of Andre Iguodala and Scottie Barnes.

I’ll take that on the Sixers

[Neal Romer]

Ultimate glue guy.


Yeah. I'd really like to see him go to a team thats already got a few pieces. Like Portland, or one of the East play-in teams that might end up in the lotto like Miami or Atlanta. Altho lottery probability doesnt favor that clearly.

I dont know that hes a guy you stick on the Wizards or the Jazz and say "ok, now lift this thing up." Actually I think itd be really cool to see him get paired with Zion, but I dunno how much longer New Orleans stays committed to Zion and vice versa.

[Neal Romer]

Tbh I wanna see Portland land him, and then see Maxey force a trade to Portland to join him. Those guys can match each other's energy, and theres some other solid pieces there.



Leave The Big Sob and Podcast P in Philly :crazysam:

[GimmeThat]

Adam Morrison was not as physical as Flagg, but a much more potent scorer in his last year in college

[999Guy]

I don't see superstar. He's not good enough with the ball in his hands and he's never going to be an off ball 3 pt assassin like Curry.

I also think his defense as it relates to the NBA level is way overrated. He's not a generational perimeter/interior defender combo at all.

#2 guy on a title team most likely. Still great to have.

Not how it works. He could bust asses on offense right now.

He’d get a decently efficient 20/5 on an NBA offense immediately.

A lot of getting better at basketball is just learning the tricks and and timing your body gives you an edge to do. There is no way he’s even learned half of his total ability to generate shots at 19.

That’s really where age shows up as valuable in the NBA. There are athletic 30 years who are as as fast or faster than 20 year olds. But it’s the learning curve of your own instincts and game. To be as good as he is at 19, means he will figure out how to utterly dominate by 23.

Look at how Wiggins improved at like 26 or some shit with Golden State. He learned how to rebound in one summer. Idiot could've learned that at 21. But didn’t have the drive to.

As long as Cooper is hard working, he will be a superstar at this rate.


Edit: The dude is actually still 18. God damn. Insane to write his ceiling off.

[tontoz]

Leave The Big Sob and Podcast P in Philly :crazysam:

:lol

[ShawkFactory]

Not how it works. He could bust asses on offense right now.

He’d get a decently efficient 20/5 on an NBA offense immediately.

A lot of getting better at basketball is just learning the tricks and and timing your body gives you an edge to do. There is no way he’s even learned half of his total ability to generate shots at 19.

That’s really where age shows up as valuable in the NBA. There are athletic 30 years who are as as fast or faster than 20 year olds. But it’s the learning curve of your own instincts and game. To be as good as he is at 19, means he will figure out how to utterly dominate by 23.

Look at how Wiggins improved at like 26 or some shit with Golden State. He learned how to rebound in one summer. Idiot could've learned that at 21. But didn’t have the drive to.

As long as Cooper is hard working, he will be a superstar at this rate.


Edit: The dude is actually still 18. God damn. Insane to write his ceiling off.

He actually turned 18 halfway through the season. People were judging him too heavily on his first couple performances against good teams as a 17-year-old :lol

[Druckenmiller]

I’d rather have Harper or Bailey — you know the two guys who couldn’t play .500 basketball despite being on the same team.

[Druckenmiller]

I’d rather have Harper or Bailey — you know the two guys who couldn’t play .500 basketball despite being on the same team.

[Im Still Ballin]

Great performance.

[Manny98]

Flagg is a generational talent being saying it for the past year or so

The drop off after number one is crazy,

Harper, Bailey and Edgecombe are looking decent and certainly have star potential but their ceilings aren't close to Flaggs

Nets have a 10% chance of getting number 1 and a 40% of landing in the top 4

[GimmeThat]

all Bama has to do is run the 3-2 zone, and occasional 2-1-2 and they'll be fine. Duke runs a 1-3-1, yet they let Flagg be the main scorer and playmaker meaning their PnR isn't nearly as fluent as they should be. You'd think they can count on the box-one to help save them, but their playmaking off the bench is quite horrendous.

and to keep things real, how much longer should Brandon Ingram be put on suicide alert for being more black and skilled

[ralph_i_el]

all Bama has to do is run the 3-2 zone, and occasional 2-1-2 and they'll be fine. Duke runs a 1-3-1, yet they let Flagg be the main scorer and playmaker meaning their PnR isn't nearly as fluent as they should be. You'd think they can count on the box-one to help save them, but their playmaking off the bench is quite horrendous.

and to keep things real, how much longer should Brandon Ingram be put on suicide alert for being more black and skilled

wtf does this even mean?

[Neal Romer]

wtf does this even mean?

It means somewhere behind a computer screen someone is in the midst of a psychotic break.

[Neal Romer]

In terms of Flagg, you can see how much he's grown in terms of his decision making and his feel for what to do when. I still dont think he's the most natural player with the ball in his hands. He reminds me of Tatum in that he can technically do anything on the court, but theres something a bit mechanical about it. Not that it's ineffective, it just isnt the smoothest.

[GimmeThat]

wtf does this even mean?

Nash's 2 MVP is probably under a heavy microscope unless I missed out on the memo NBA literally calling the regular season Harlem Globetrotting

[tontoz]

wtf does this even mean?

His account is a gimmick. He posts a lot of random, irrelevant nonsense for no apparent reason. He isn't as prolific now as he used to be. I put him on the filter a while ago because his posts are complete nonsense.

[GimmeThat]

In terms of Flagg, you can see how much he's grown in terms of his decision making and his feel for what to do when. I still dont think he's the most natural player with the ball in his hands. He reminds me of Tatum in that he can technically do anything on the court, but theres something a bit mechanical about it. Not that it's ineffective, it just isnt the smoothest.

you sure you don't want to just slurp all over his nuts and say "Well, everything will be fine, Flagg is a leader". At this point, why not

[GimmeThat]

His account is a gimmick. He posts a lot of random, irrelevant nonsense for no apparent reason. He isn't as prolific now as he used to be. I put him on the filter a while ago because his posts are complete nonsense.

since your afterlife account is complete nonsense, guess no amount of intelectual capacity is gonna make up for that, huh.

[ShawkFactory]

In terms of Flagg, you can see how much he's grown in terms of his decision making and his feel for what to do when. I still dont think he's the most natural player with the ball in his hands. He reminds me of Tatum in that he can technically do anything on the court, but theres something a bit mechanical about it. Not that it's ineffective, it just isnt the smoothest.

Tatum is actually a decent comp at the moment. Flagg’s peak I think would be kind of like a Tatum but meaner.

[Manny98]

Tatum is actually a decent comp at the moment. Flagg’s peak I think would be kind of like a Tatum but meaner.

Flagg has way more potential defensively

[90sgoat]

Cooper will play the same role as Franz Wagner, as a "sometimes-point forward" while running the break and attacking the basket.

He is much better than Wagner on the defensive end though, so his role might be more like say peak Jimmy Butler or young Kawhi.

[Im Still Ballin]

NBA Draft season is getting closer. The content creators and publishers have begun listing comparisons for the draftees. Here's what they've listed for Cooper:

The Ringer: Scottie Pippen, Jayson Tatum, Andrei Kirilenko, Shawn Marion, Nicholas Batum

NBADraft.net: Scottie Pippen

NBA Draft Room: Andrei Kirilenko+, Scottie Pippen, Jayson Tatum

Bleacher Report: Jalen Johnson, Kevin Garnett

George Karl (on Twitter): "Cooper Flagg’s comp is a more offensively skilled Scottie Pippen."

Rookie Me Central: Scottie Pippen, Andrei Kirilenko, Jayson Tatum

The Sporting News: Kawhi Leonard, Andrei Kirilenko, Scottie Pippen, Kevin Garnett

Yahoo Sports: Scottie Pippen, Tom Chambers, Andrei Kirilenko

Basketball Insiders: Jayson Tatum, Kawhi Leonard

[Im Still Ballin]

7 Scottie Pippen mentions. 5 Andrei Kirilenko mentions. 4 Jayson Tatum mentions. 2 Kawhi Leonard mentions. 2 Kevin Garnett mentions.

[Im Still Ballin]

My thoughts on those comps...

BTW: Coop's talent and ability are incredibly precocious. Way more than any of these guys. So, we're kind of comparing him and his potential to these guys at an older age. Don't really see the point in making age-matched comps here because Flagg is so far ahead of all of them.

...

Scottie Pippen: I like it. High IQ two-way forward who do everything well. Physically, I think Pip is a little more twitchy/explosive, but Coop is stronger and sturdier built. And like Coach Karl said, Flagg is more offensively skilled. In what way? IMO, shooting (in general), on-ball slashing, foul drawing, and post-up play.

Andrei Kirilenko: Works as a low-to-mid outcome if Coop's on-ball ability doesn't translate. Andrei+ (meaning on-ball upside) is solid as a high-end projection but is a bit more theoretical/abstract/hard to conceptualize. What's his defense look like with a primary offensive role?

At that point, you're better off with an actual elite two-way wing, like a modified Pippen, Tatum, or Kawhi.

Cooper has outgrown the Kirilenko, Marion, Battier, Bobby Jones base comps. Shown way too much offensive upside for his potential to be limited to those guys.

Jayson Tatum: Another great comp. Like the Pippen one. Two-way forwards who do everything well: score, pass, rebound, and defend.

Differences? Coop is more athletic in general and has more natural strength/a sturdier natural frame. Tatum has maxed out his size through weight lifting, but make no mistake: Flagg is the more naturally robust guy. His untrained baseline and maxed-out potential for size and strength surpass Jayson's.

Tatum is better/more dynamic as a ball handler and pull-up three-point shooter. Has craftier one-foot finishes at the rim/in the paint.

Outside of that? I don't think he does anything better. Flagg's superior athleticism and longer strides give him Giannis-lite potential in transition. Specifically, his two-footed jumping makes him a better aerial finisher, post-up threat, and rebounder on both ends. Superior natural physicality gives Coop more potential for foul drawing, I'd also say.

Kawhi Leonard: Another solid comp. Can group it in with Pippen and Tatum (elite two-way forwards.) This one is definitely the highest-end of the group. Easily the best regarding scoring, shooting, overall offense, and probably tied or very close to Pippen for defense.

How does the comparison look with Coop? Biggest physical differences: Flagg taller, much longer strides, way more of a vertical athlete. Gets off the ground quicker and higher. Covers ground faster due to those longer legs. It's like Duncan (short legs) vs. Garnett (long legs.)

Kawhi shorter, stockier, relatively shorter legs/lower center of gravity, can't jump like Flagg. Kawhi probably a little longer and his relative span gives him greater reach lower down. Makes for a lower, more secure dribble and more defensive disruption when opponents are dribbling the ball.

Skill-wise, the physical differences make Coop more of a vertical presence on both ends. Shot-blocking/paint & rim protection, aerial finishing (oops, rolls, cuts, transition, lobs, etc), and rebounding. More of a transition threat due to long strides and aerial game.

Kawhi's ball handling and shooting are super elite. Coop has shown potential here but Leonard is about as good as it gets for shot-making forwards. It's certainly possible Flagg could develop a similar iso/mid-range/three-point game. Unlikely, but you can't rule it out due to how good Coop is at his age.

Leonard is better at defending on-ball/at the point of attack and getting around screens. Both great defending the post. Coop better defending off-ball.

Passing/playmaking is definitely an area where Coop has the advantage. Kawhi has become a better passer but it happened after his 2015-16 to 2016-17 peak. Flagg has legit point forward potential. Comparable to Pippen, Drexler, Butler, and LeBron, IMO.

Kevin Garnett: I get the comp from a general standpoint: an elite two-way impact with more coming from passing and defense as opposed to scoring. But KG was a legit PF/C, standing 6'11.25" barefoot with an estimated 7'5" wingspan.

You're better off comparing Coop to Pippen. He's got that same defense and passing-leveraged two-way impact but in a truly comparable forward body. Flagg = PF/SF + some small-ball C. Sort of like Dray or Bo Outlaw once he fills out. KG = PF/C. More like AD, Giannis, JJJ, or Mobley.

Also, Garnett doesn't pressure the rim/get downhill quite like Coop.

[Im Still Ballin]

Duke's Cooper Flagg named AP men's basketball Player of the Year

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/44533434/duke-cooper-flagg-named-ap-men-basketball-player-year


The 6-foot-9, 205-pound forward from Newport, Maine, won a two-man race with Auburn star Johni Broome. Both players were unanimous first-team AP All-Americans with teams at the Final Four, and they were the only two to receive player-of-the-year votes, with Flagg getting 42 of the 61.

Flagg joins Duke's Zion Williamson (2019), Kentucky's Anthony Davis (2012) and Texas star Kevin Durant (2007) as freshman winners. Each went either No. 1 or No. 2 in the NBA draft a few months later. Flagg is the eighth Duke player to win the award, the most of any program.

[imdaman99]

That was a BS call on Flagg right there. Refs are trash

[ShawkFactory]

That was a BS call on Flagg right there. Refs are trash

Very bad call but Duke didn’t execute at the end. Simply being able to inbound against the press would have won them the game.

[eliteballer]

Stop copying my threads!!!!

[Neal Romer]

Not an ideal play call for a guy who's calling card hasnt exactly been iso execution in the clutch this season.

His size, athleticism, motor, they allow him to do a lot of things on the court and make an impact. But as a natural iso shot maker, hes not the guy you want in the clutch. That's not his game right now.

Continues to feel very Tatumesque to me. Not saying it's a bad thing. Just probably not a 'generational' thing at the NBA level.

[ShawkFactory]

Not an ideal play call for a guy who's calling card hasnt exactly been iso execution in the clutch this season.

His size, athleticism, motor, they allow him to do a lot of things on the court and make an impact. But as a natural iso shot maker, hes not the guy you want in the clutch. That's not his game right now.

Continues to feel very Tatumesque to me. Not saying it's a bad thing. Just probably not a 'generational' thing at the NBA level.

You’re not wrong. Watching this game he was very obviously by far the best player in the court and didn’t see the box until just now..he really carried them.

Is he going to be one of the best players of all time? Odds are, no. But he’s elite at everything but the ISO game already, as someone that should be a senior in high school. Who knows what the upside is but he has the highest floor of any prospect in many years.

I think it’s an absolute lock that he’ll be at least a very very good NBA player.

[Im Still Ballin]

Cooper-san, not like this...

[Im Still Ballin]

Not an ideal play call for a guy who's calling card hasnt exactly been iso execution in the clutch this season.

His size, athleticism, motor, they allow him to do a lot of things on the court and make an impact. But as a natural iso shot maker, hes not the guy you want in the clutch. That's not his game right now.

Continues to feel very Tatumesque to me. Not saying it's a bad thing. Just probably not a 'generational' thing at the NBA level.


You’re not wrong. Watching this game he was very obviously by far the best player in the court and didn’t see the box until just now..he really carried them.

Is he going to be one of the best players of all time? Odds are, no. But he’s elite at everything but the ISO game already, as someone that should be a senior in high school. Who knows what the upside is but he has the highest floor of any prospect in many years.

I think it’s an absolute lock that he’ll be at least a very very good NBA player.

You could've said the same thing about young LeBron. He's so young, and the sample size is very small right now. It's not something I'd be concerned about.

He's shown real mid-range touch, a competent post-up game, and an ever-improving handle. Gets to the rim; hard to stop out of a triple threat. It's all looking good.

[Neal Romer]

You could've said the same thing about young LeBron. He's so young, and the sample size is very small right now. It's not something I'd be concerned about.

He's shown real mid-range touch, a competent post-up game, and an ever-improving handle. Gets to the rim; hard to stop out of a triple threat. It's all looking good.


He didnt have a shot making bag but he had a much more natural handle which allowed him to get to the basket with less turnover risk in a big moment. Im not saying Flagg wont continue getting better in that regard but I dont think his on-ball game comes as natural as previous phenoms like Lebron, Luka, even Zion. Theres no doubt he's improved over time but again I would class him closer to Tatum, a guy who's worked his way to a sort of off-brand Mamba Mentality than having a natural talent for it from the beginning. But everywhere else Flagg is great. He should at the least be a stronger and more explosive version of Tatum, which is still gonna make a very good NBA player.

[Manny98]

The next time we will see Cooper Flagg he'll be in a Nets Jersey :applause:

[eliteballer]

I told you to stop copying my threads, stop talking to yourself, and get a job and a girlfriend!!

[Manny98]

I told you to stop copying my threads, stop talking to yourself, and get a job and a girlfriend!!
The **** are you on about??

go post some pics of LeBrons body since that's the main thing you're known for on here :oldlol:

[GOBB]

Cooper Flagg sweepsteaks tonight at 7pm

[GOBB]

I’d rather have Harper or Bailey — you know the two guys who couldn’t play .500 basketball despite being on the same team.

Anthony Edwards went 16-16 before being the #1 pick in the draft.

[bison]

Tonight we will learn that Cooper Flagg will be a Brooklyn net.

[Manny98]

Tonight we will learn that Cooper Flagg will be a Brooklyn net.

Todays the day, this is it my NBA finals

https://i.postimg.cc/zDFTng0Q/7b8e571d873f4276dd28738e17741d54-w200.gif

[GOBB]

Would suck for Flagg to go to Nets.

[j3lademaster]

Flagg playing in Charlotte with Lamelo would be fun.

[Akeem34TheDream]

He will be a Rocket

[tontoz]

This is really a lottery for Flagg and Harper. Harper would be a legit number 1 in many drafts.

[GOBB]

This is really a lottery for Flagg and Harper. Harper would be a legit number 1 in many drafts.

Many drafts? Run them off lol

[tontoz]

Many drafts? Run them off lol


Over the last 15 years the only number 1s I would definitely take over Harper (without the benefit of hindsight) are Wemby, AD, Zion and Kat. Iffy are Ant and Wall.

[j3lademaster]

This is really a lottery for Flagg and Harper. Harper would be a legit number 1 in many drafts.

Shifty, crafty 6’6 combo guard with above average athleticism. Looks like a Cade clone, I’m sure teams wouldn’t mind that.

[j3lademaster]

Over the last 15 years the only number 1s I would definitely take over Harper (without the benefit of hindsight) are Wemby, AD, Zion and Kat. Iffy are Ant and Wall.

Ben Simmons. He might have been the biggest prospect of the 10’s. Wiggins was huge until everyone saw how soft he was in college.

[GOBB]

Over the last 15 years the only number 1s I would definitely take over Harper (without the benefit of hindsight) are Wemby, AD, Zion and Kat. Iffy are Ant and Wall.


Oh what you would take. Thought you said he legit had a claim to being number 1 in many drafts. Because outside of lack years draft. I can’t see one the last 15 years.

[j3lademaster]

Oh what you would take. Thought you said he legit had a claim to being number 1 in many drafts. Because outside of lack years draft. I can’t see one the last 15 years.

That was what he meant, that he would go first in a lot of drafts.

[GOBB]

That was what he meant, that he would go first in a lot of drafts.

That’s not true. He wouldn’t go over anyone #1 outside of last years draft. Here you go…


https://www.nba.com/news/history-draft


In case you want to pick a year to argue. I’m here for it. Would he go over Cade Cunningham? Nah. Banchero? 3 level scorers at 6’10? Heck he wouldn’t go 2nd in that draft over Chet. Like I said I get that HE would personally take Harper over guys. But Harper does not grade that high in prior drafts.

Would he go #1 next year?

[tontoz]

Oh what you would take. Thought you said he legit had a claim to being number 1 in many drafts. Because outside of lack years draft. I can’t see one the last 15 years.

Do you have a reading impairment? The only drafts that I wouldn't have considered Dylan at one are the 4 I listed.

Cade? :facepalm Dylan's handles and finishing ability are a tier above Cade.

[Meticode]

Watch him end up in Utah and everyone will forget about him.

[GOBB]

Do you have a reading impairment? The only drafts that I wouldn't have considered Dylan at one are the 4 I listed.

Cade? :facepalm Dylan's handles and finishing ability are a tier above Cade.

I don’t care what you would have considered. Truth of the matter he would not have gone #1 in many drafts. Ben Simmons was billed as a generational talent. Harper wouldn’t have gone before him. So of course you would change it to what YOU would have done. Your initial posts made it seem like that would’ve been the case generally speaking. And it flat out wouldn’t have. So no he wouldn’t have gone #1 in many drafts as you once claimed.


He wouldn’t have gone over Cade in that draft.

Definatelly a top 3 pick tho in 2021

[GOBB]

Anyway, it would be hilarious if soxers get pick 6 or lose it completely.

[tontoz]

I don’t care what you would have considered. Truth of the matter he would not have gone #1 in many drafts. Ben Simmons was billed as a generational talent. Harper wouldn’t have gone before him. So of course you would change it to what YOU would have done. Your initial posts made it seem like that would’ve been the case generally speaking. And it flat out wouldn’t have. So no he wouldn’t have gone #1 in many drafts as you once claimed.


He wouldn’t have gone over Cade in that draft.

Definatelly a top 3 pick tho in 2021


Cade was a better than average ball handler and meh finisher in college. Dylan is elite at both which is why he shot 12% better on 2s. I definitely think he would go at 1 over Cade.

Harper looked like an NBA vet playing with college kids. After he merked Alabama teams realized the only way to keep him out of the paint was to double him.

Ive seen a lot of people saying that they would take Harper over Flagg during the season. Even now there are some wizards fans still saying that.

I would say that Harper would have gotten actually picked number one in at least a third of the drafts, probably more.

[GOBB]

Cade was a better than average ball handler and meh finisher in college. Dylan is elite at both which is why he shot 12% better on 2s. I definitely think he would go at 1 over Cade.

Harper looked like an NBA vet playing with college kids. After he merked Alabama teams realized the only way to keep him out of the paint was to double him.

Ive seen a lot of people saying that they would take Harper over Flagg during the season. Even now there are some wizards fans still saying that.

I would say that Harper would have gotten actually picked number one in at least a third of the drafts, probably more.

Seems like wizards have been mocked to land him. Wonder if that has played a role in some wizards fans thinking he is better than Flagg. I do like Harper tho. His defense is suspect in spite of his size. He may be a matador on defense at the next level. But I like everything else about his game. Some sixers fans don’t want another “guard”. But I pose this question. Outside of Maxey what guard do we have that 1. Is worth a top first rd pick 2. Better prospect than Harper Jr.

[Meticode]

We all knew Nico Harrison wouldn't be there repping Dallas.

[tontoz]

Jay's top 5 is the exact same as mine, in the exact same order. I've seen the same top 5 guys in a lot of mocks but most of them seems to have vj over Tre.

[tontoz]

#so wizards :facepalm

[Manny98]

I feel sick...

[Meticode]

#so wizards :facepalm

:(

At least you got rid of Kyle Kuzma.

[Meticode]

Here come the conspiracies...

NBA: "If you send Luka to the biggest global market in the league we'll find you the #1 pick."

Dallas: Deal.

[Wardell Curry]

Rigged.

[Axe]

The west almost always gets the hyped prospect nowadays. :oldlol:

[GOBB]

I feel sick...

:roll: That’s what you get. Hold that L.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Now I have to read this entire thread.

[Doomsday Dallas]

https://c.tenor.com/E20uu6HgaAQAAAAd/tenor.gif

[red1]

league rigged it for dallas because they felt bad for the fans



they definitely rig the lottery. always turns out too convenient

[warriorfan]

I feel sick...

I thought nets were gonna get it for some reason.

[j3lademaster]

SA getting Dylan Harper to pair with Wemby just gonna get swept under the rug?

[tontoz]

SA getting Dylan Harper to pair with Wemby just gonna get swept under the rug?


Yeah I had Harper at least a tier anove everyone else after Flagg. Ridiculous that the top two picks are going to the same state.

:banghead:

[GOBB]

Nets lost all those games to end up with the 8th pick. I can’t stop laughing at the pathetic Nets franchise and its fanbase more importantly. Go ahead and look for to 2026 draft lottery hahaha

[Doomsday Dallas]

https://c.tenor.com/EJbGrG_eBsYAAAAd/tenor.gif

[j3lademaster]

https://c.tenor.com/EJbGrG_eBsYAAAAd/tenor.gif

Hopefully you guys do a good job developing him for the Lakers.

[90sgoat]

SA getting Dylan Harper to pair with Wemby just gonna get swept under the rug?

Isn't Harper and Castle the same player?

What Wemby needs is a younger Chris Paul, not another shotjacker.

[j3lademaster]

Isn't Harper and Castle the same player?

What Wemby needs is a younger Chris Paul, not another shotjacker.

Not even close. Harper is incredibly polished: handles, stepback middie, turnaround j, and he can shoot the 3 and actually finish at the basket with non dunks. I think Castle is more athletic? But he can’t stretch the floor.

And CP3’s are extinct. Pg’s will be Lukas, Traes, Curry’s, Cades etc going forward. The last ‘true’ star pg was probably Rajon Rondo and of course Paul, like you mentioned.

[GOBB]

I feel sick...

Can’t back to laugh at this some more

[999Guy]

6'7 3/4", 7'0 wingspan, 221 pounds. 8'10 1/2" standing reach


He moved with true fluidity and explosive power at 221 pounds. He's gonna be a killer. His weight was the only question mark for me because of reports.

[stalkerforlife]

I hope this doesn't stunt his growth.

I wanted him to have his own team. Learn on the floor. Make mistakes. Miss shots. Like many other greats before him.

Obviously Reed Sheppard is not on his level, but look at his disastrous rookie season as a 3rd pick because the team was already good.

Coop should be bringing Utah back to prominence.

[GOBB]

I hope this doesn't stunt his growth.

I wanted him to have his own team. Learn on the floor. Make mistakes. Miss shots. Like many other greats before him.

Obviously Reed Sheppard is not on his level, but look at his disastrous rookie season as a 3rd pick because the team was already good.

Coop should be bringing Utah back to prominence.

Possibly the dumbest situation you could want him to be in. Go to a bad team. Be expected to carry them to wins. Wins doesn’t happen? Bashed. No grace for bad performances as he tries to develop his game. Bashed. 4 years approaching now has to deal with is he overrated? Is he worth the max? He needs help the franchise isn’t giving it but wait I thought Flagg was Himothy? Great white hype.


Yeah sit this one out. He’s in a perfect situation where now he can be that glue guy, that fill in the blanks and reap the benefits of Kyrie-Davis duo who will shoulder the load in the wins department. The pressure is lessened significantly. Dallas doesn’t win? Dallas chokes? Not Flagg fault it’s theirs. Give him the keys is the narrative. Meanwhile he can improve his weaknesses, strengthen his game so by time Davis/kyrie are no longer a thing? Hes at age 21-22 as the man.

Perfect situation. Tons of grace. F*ck Utah

[GOBB]

Reed goes late lottery in a stronger draft. He doesn’t even go 3 in this draft. Hes lumped in with Fears, Tre Johnson of the world. I don’t even see why he’s mentioned. Who expected Reed to be more than a future starter? Role player vibes. Specialist vibes. He had quite a few question marks coming out. One was can he adjust to the speed of the game? Sorry he’s not balling out in Houston. There’s a reason for that.

He ain’t no Cooper cheese

[Im Still Ballin]

Dallas is a great fit. It's the best balance of team competitiveness and role. He can be the primary playmaker from day one if he's good enough. He'll get a chance to put up numbers with Kyrie out if he's good enough. I'd compare his situation to Tatum and Scottie Barnes coming into the league. To a lesser extent, Kawhi, PG, and Butler a few years in.

I think 14-17 ppg, 6-8 rpg, 4-6 apg, 1-2 spg, 1-2 bpg is a safe estimate. Which are great numbers on a winning team. I also think 17-20 ppg is possible because he's already 221 pounds and should be closer to 230 after the offseason with Dallas' strength and conditioning team. Tatum is 230 right now, so Coop is naturally stronger/sturdier. He's more like an OG Anunoby or Aaron Gordon in that sense.

The biggest thing is that, with Irving out, all the top players are off-ball guys. Flagg will have the ball in his hands plenty. And his defense puts him on the court in the first place, which is what Sheppard's problem was.

[90sgoat]

Reed goes late lottery in a stronger draft. He doesn’t even go 3 in this draft. Hes lumped in with Fears, Tre Johnson of the world. I don’t even see why he’s mentioned. Who expected Reed to be more than a future starter? Role player vibes. Specialist vibes. He had quite a few question marks coming out. One was can he adjust to the speed of the game? Sorry he’s not balling out in Houston. There’s a reason for that.

He ain’t no Cooper cheese

Reed Shepperd did well in the games he started. He definitely has the potential to be 6th man of the year, which would be his best role for now.

[Im Still Ballin]

Cooper has very similar measurements to LBJ, Josh Smith, Aaron Gordon, Jayson Tatum, Jalen Johnson, and Paul George.

Flagg: 6'7.75" barefoot, 221 pounds, 7'0" wingspan, 8'10.5" standing reach (18.5 draft age)
LBJ: 6'7.25" barefoot, 245 pounds, 7'0.25" wingspan, 8'10.25" standing reach (18.5 draft age)
Smith: 6'7" barefoot, 221 pounds, 7'0" wingspan, 8'10.5" standing reach (18.53 draft age)
Tatum: 6'8.25" in shoes, 204 pounds, 6'11" wingspan, 8'10.5" standing reach (19.29 draft age)
PG: 6'7.75" barefoot, 214.4 pounds, 6'11.25" wingspan, 8'11" standing reach (20.12 draft age)
Jalen Johnson: 6'7.75" barefoot, 209.6 pounds, 7'0.25" wingspan, 8'10" standing reach (19.5 draft age)
Aaron Gordon: 6'7.5" barefoot, 220.1 pounds, 6'11.75" wingspan, 8'9" standing reach (18.75 draft age)

I'd say Smith is the closest physical comparison, also considering athleticism. Smith has more twitch (39.5" max vert vs. 35.5") but less agility/change of pace/change of direction/lateral movement (11.43 pro lane vs. 10.83). J Smoove was 225 as a rookie, and 240+ in his prime. I'd expect Coop to follow a similar weight progression.

With official measurements now, I'd grade Cooper an A- for size and A- for athleticism. His precocious weight, sturdiness/frame, and strength bump him up from a B+, in my opinion. An offseason with the Dallas strength and conditioning team will get him up to 225-230, and he'll be physically ready to compete from day one. For comparison, Tatum was 210 as a rookie.

[coin24]

I get the feeling he’ll be a bust..

I don’t see Dallas being a good fit for him, would have been better on a team without expectations first few seasons.. not wizards or hornets level dog shit though

[ralph_i_el]

Cooper has very similar measurements to LBJ, Josh Smith, Aaron Gordon, Jayson Tatum, Jalen Johnson, and Paul George.

Flagg: 6'7.75" barefoot, 221 pounds, 7'0" wingspan, 8'10.5" standing reach (18.5 draft age)
LBJ: 6'7.25" barefoot, 245 pounds, 7'0.25" wingspan, 8'10.25" standing reach (18.5 draft age)
Smith: 6'7" barefoot, 221 pounds, 7'0" wingspan, 8'10.5" standing reach (18.53 draft age)
Tatum: 6'8.25" in shoes, 204 pounds, 6'11" wingspan, 8'10.5" standing reach (19.29 draft age)
PG: 6'7.75" barefoot, 214.4 pounds, 6'11.25" wingspan, 8'11" standing reach (20.12 draft age)
Jalen Johnson: 6'7.75" barefoot, 209.6 pounds, 7'0.25" wingspan, 8'10" standing reach (19.5 draft age)
Aaron Gordon: 6'7.5" barefoot, 220.1 pounds, 6'11.75" wingspan, 8'9" standing reach (18.75 draft age)

I'd say Smith is the closest physical comparison, also considering athleticism. Smith has more twitch (39.5" max vert vs. 35.5") but less agility/change of pace/change of direction/lateral movement (11.43 pro lane vs. 10.83). J Smoove was 225 as a rookie, and 240+ in his prime. I'd expect Coop to follow a similar weight progression.

With official measurements now, I'd grade Cooper an A- for size and A- for athleticism. His precocious weight, sturdiness/frame, and strength bump him up from a B+, in my opinion. An offseason with the Dallas strength and conditioning team will get him up to 225-230, and he'll be physically ready to compete from day one. For comparison, Tatum was 210 as a rookie.

A more consistent/locked-in/prepared Josh Smith is my new projection for Flagg. Smith on his best nights.

[ShawkFactory]

I get the feeling he’ll be a bust..

I don’t see Dallas being a good fit for him, would have been better on a team without expectations first few seasons.. not wizards or hornets level dog shit though

I don't think he's the type to really have issues with expectations.

[Im Still Ballin]

A more consistent/locked-in/prepared Josh Smith is my new projection for Flagg. Smith on his best nights.

It's a great place to start from a physical perspective. What's so exciting about Cooper is his shooting and playmaking upside. He was the primary ball handler for the #1 offense in college basketball. A legitimate point-forward (4.4 apg; 2.1 topg) who shot 44.4% 3PT (3.7 3pa/g) and 87.7% FT (6.0 fta/g) over his last 27 games.

The more I think about it the more I'm slowly inching toward a LeBron James comparison. A less athletic, 20-odd pounds lighter LeBron with better defense and shooting. Which is more or less a way more skilled, higher IQ Josh Smith. One that can potentially shoot 37-40% 3PT, 40-45%+ from the mid-range, 85%+ FT, and be a legitimate point-forward.

[tontoz]

Rumor is that Philly is open to trading the 3rd pick. Wizards might be in on that.

[Neal Romer]

Rumor is that Philly is open to trading the 3rd pick. Wizards might be in on that.


It makes sense if theyre delusional enough to think they can win now with a team dependent on the Cowardly Lion, but it's gonna be hard to trade that pick for any veteran making a decent salary. Most of their money is tied up in three guys, who are they gonna trade along with #3 to make the money work?

The only other contracts theyve got are Oubre and Hood-Schifino making a combined 12 mils. They cant trade for Middleton's 30M deal. Nor could they trade for Poole's 30 mil or Marcus Smart's 20 mil even if they wanted either of those two, which Im sure they dont but it illustrates the point.

Dont see who they could take back for that #3 pick thats gonna make any kind of difference for them.

[tontoz]

It makes sense if theyre delusional enough to think they can win now with a team dependent on the Cowardly Lion, but it's gonna be hard to trade that pick for any veteran making a decent salary. Most of their money is tied up in three guys, who are they gonna trade along with #3 to make the money work?

The only other contracts theyve got are Oubre and Hood-Schifino making a combined 12 mils. They cant trade for Middleton's 30M deal. Nor could they trade for Poole's 30 mil or Marcus Smart's 20 mil even if they wanted either of those two, which Im sure they dont but it illustrates the point.

Dont see who they could take back for that #3 pick thats gonna make any kind of difference for them.


I think they might be looking to dump PG's contract. They made a mistake signing him in the first place.

[Neal Romer]

I think they might be looking to dump PG's contract. They made a mistake signing him in the first place.


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?520403-Wiz-now-have-Smart-Middleton-Brogdon-Poole-theyre-literally-the-NBA-graveyard

:lol

[tontoz]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?520403-Wiz-now-have-Smart-Middleton-Brogdon-Poole-theyre-literally-the-NBA-graveyard

:lol


:lol

We got the 18th pick in that Smart deal. At the time it was mid 20s but then they tanked and we were afraid they would keep the pick because it was top 14 protected. If Memphis didn't get through the play in they would have kept the pick.

[GOBB]

What is the obsession with posting heights barefoot? Generally speaking becuase it’s a thing across the net. They play with sneakers. Last I checked. So where does the barefoot height come into play outside of them in the comfort of their home, at a pool, beach etc

And how many inches do sneakers add? Then again that varies as it’s not one set size across the board. But I’m assuming at least an inch & a 1/2 added.


Rumor is that Philly is open to trading the 3rd pick. Wizards might be in on that.


Wizards have absolutely nothing to offer. Hell no. I’ll stop watching the sixers if they trade the 3rd to the sh*tty wizards

[tontoz]

What is the obsession with posting heights barefoot? Generally speaking becuase it’s a thing across the net. They play with sneakers. Last I checked. So where does the barefoot height come into play outside of them in the comfort of their home, at a pool, beach etc

And how many inches do sneakers add? Then again that varies as it’s not one set size across the board. But I’m assuming at least an inch & a 1/2 added.




Wizards have absolutely nothing to offer. Hell no. I’ll stop watching the sixers if they trade the 3rd to the sh*tty wizards

We have the 6th pick and cap space. We also have big, expiring contracts and a good off ball shooter in Kispert.

If the sixers want to dump PG we are logical trade partner.

[GOBB]

We have the 6th pick and cap space. We also have big, expiring contracts and a good off ball shooter in Kispert.

If the sixers want to dump PG we are logical trade partner.

Hahaha kispert? So basically you can eat Paul George contract for us in a deal. That’s it. No thanks do better.

[tontoz]

Hahaha kispert? So basically you can eat Paul George contract for us in a deal. That’s it. No thanks do better.

For trading down 3 spots what do you expect?

Of course I am just speculating about them wanting to dump PG13. Sam Vecenie is the one reporting that they are shopping the pick. The only way for us to get in on that would be to take on PG's awful contract.

[GOBB]

For trading down 3 spots what do you expect?

Of course I am just speculating about them wanting to dump PG13. Sam Vecenie is the one reporting that they are shopping the pick. The only way for us to get in on that would be to take on PG's awful contract.

I expect us not to entertain the Wizards calling at all. Even if they are willing to eat George contract. I know you’re speculating. Sixers most likely will be looking to add a proven player that can help them win next season using the 3rd pick as trade bait. And that too is dumb. But there’s really nothing the Wizards has that entices me to do a trade. You can get rid of George contract without sacrificing the 3rd overall pick.


Is the talent at 6 that significantly worse than the 3rd pick? Why don’t want the 3rd pick

[tontoz]

The way I see the draft is that Flagg and Harper are a tier above everyone else. Then I see Bailey/Tre/VJ as the next tier.

After that there are a lot of guys on roughly the same tier.

I have to question if Morey is interested in making a pick at all. He doesn't strike me as having a lot of patience for rookies.

[GOBB]

The way I see the draft is that Flagg and Harper are a tier above everyone else. Then I see Bailey/Tre/VJ as the next tier.

After that there are a lot of guys on roughly the same tier.

I have to question if Morey is interested in making a pick at all. He doesn't strike me as having a lot of patience for rookies.

Morey won’t make it out the city alive if he trades this pick.

Take Ace Bailey and keep it moving. Hopefully this franchise can develop him.

[tontoz]

Rumor is that the nets are looking to trade up to 6 to take Fears. I am fine with that as long as Ace/Tre/VJ are off the board.

[Manny98]

I really like Flaggs teammate Kon Knuepple at #8, he reminds me of Klay Thompson with handles and playmaking ability, easily the best shooter in this draft

[Manny98]

Rumor is that the nets are looking to trade up to 6 to take Fears. I am fine with that as long as Ace/Tre/VJ are off the board.

Not a fan of Fears I'd be annoyed if we traded up for him

[GOBB]

I really like Flaggs teammate Kon Knuepple at #8, he reminds me of Klay Thompson with handles and playmaking ability, easily the best shooter in this draft

Tre is the best shooter in the draft.

[tontoz]

Not a fan of Fears I'd be annoyed if we traded up for him

I don't like him either.

I desperately wanted us to finish with the worst record so we would be 5th at worst because i think there is a drop off at 6, so natually that is where we ended up. :cry:

[tontoz]

Tre is the best shooter in the draft.

I've been on the Tre bandwagon all year and thought we had a good chance to get him if we fall in the draft. Then we went on a late run and Utah went into shameless tank mode and passed us. SMFH

[GOBB]

I've been on the Tre bandwagon all year and thought we had a good chance to get him if we fall in the draft. Then we went on a late run and Utah went into shameless tank mode and passed us. SMFH

I don’t think he’s a lock to go to Utah. Still a chance

[Im Still Ballin]

Here's how Coop and similarly-sized NBA FWDs compare to all historically-measured SFs in a percentile-based composite score of barefoot height, standing reach, wingspan, and weight.

Flagg: 75.8% (18.5 draft age)
LBJ: 81.6% (18.5 draft age)
Smith: 72.3% (18.53 draft age)
Tatum: 57.7% (19.29 draft age)
PG: 70.0% (20.12 draft age)
Jalen Johnson: 69.1% (19.5 draft age)
Aaron Gordon: 68.9% (18.75 draft age)

Consider the draft age and the weight measurements. Tatum's measurements weren't done at the NBA Draft Combine, so his number may be understated a little.

[Im Still Ballin]

One of my favorite comparisons: a 1.75" taller, better-shooting Jimmy Butler with 4.5" more wingspan and 5.5" more standing reach.

[ralph_i_el]

One of my favorite comparisons: a 1.75" taller, better-shooting Jimmy Butler with 4.5" more wingspan and 5.5" more standing reach.

That's a good one. Jimmy with legit PF size.

[Im Still Ballin]

Tre is the best shooter in the draft.

Agreed. Tre shoots 39.7% on off-the-dribble threes; Kon shoots 14%.

[tontoz]

Agreed. Tre shoots 39.7% on off-the-dribble threes; Kon shoots 14%.

Tre is also money on movement 3s off the catch.

His problem is that he isn't that athletic which hurts him taking it to the rim and on D.

[90sgoat]

Here's how Coop and similarly-sized NBA FWDs compare to all historically-measured SFs in a percentile-based composite score of barefoot height, standing reach, wingspan, and weight.

Flagg: 75.8% (18.5 draft age)
LBJ: 81.6% (18.5 draft age)
Smith: 72.3% (18.53 draft age)
Tatum: 57.7% (19.29 draft age)
PG: 70.0% (20.12 draft age)
Jalen Johnson: 69.1% (19.5 draft age)
Aaron Gordon: 68.9% (18.75 draft age)

Consider the draft age and the weight measurements. Tatum's measurements weren't done at the NBA Draft Combine, so his number may be understated a little.

Every time I see Flagg, I get surprised at how big he is. I think a lot of people are going to be very surprised at how practical athletic he is going to be.

Flagg has very long strides and very long shoulders, he is way more AD than a regular SF/PF hybrid.

He reminds me of Durant on offense, when Durant is driving. He can go from 3 point line to the hoop with a simple 1-2 step and on defense he is going to be able to close out on 3 point shooters like how AD can.

[GOBB]

I’m back on Ace Bailey bandwagon. Draft him Philly

[Carbine]

If Ace Bailey has a true work ethic to refine his already impressive skills off ball and introduce an acceptable handle to attack and change direction, this dude could easily become the best go to scorer from this draft class.

I doubt he will ever be a playmaker type.

In all honesty, I believe he fits better with the Spurs for the next 3-5 years than Harper does.

[Im Still Ballin]

Cooper Flagg scouting report from Sam Vecenie:


STRENGTHS:

● Great size for the combo forward position. Stands 6 feet 7.75 with a 7-foot wingspan and an 8-foot-10.5 standing reach. Has a strong 221-pound frame that makes it easy to forget that he doesn’t turn 19 until December. Those are elite measurements that will allow him to play either forward spot without issue.

● Flagg has a ridiculous combination of athletic reactivity and motor. First and foremost, he plays incredibly hard all the time. Doesn’t stop moving. Doesn’t stop attacking. Relentless in how he chases the game on both ends. He’s a genuinely elite competitor on both ends of the court. Never gives an inch. Plays with an intensity and passion that shines through on the court. He’s a classic energy-giver to his teammates with his big plays. Constantly engaged on the bench. Has serious competitive character and toughness on the court. Has zero fear.

● Athletically, has some pop both off of one or two feet vertically, but his athleticism has more to it than that. Very fluid. Gets off of the ground quickly. Doesn’t have a 40-plus-inch vertical, but hits his highest point seemingly faster than other players do. Also absorbs contact at an elite level. Can give out bumps but also makes it really hard to go through him. More than willing to play a physical brand of basketball and initiate contact.

● Will go down as one of the most impactful and productive freshmen of the last 25 years. He wasn’t quite Williamson in terms of pure box-score productivity, but he did exceed Davis outside of Davis’ obscene block numbers at Kentucky. Again, he also did all of this at 17 and 18 years old, having just turned 18 in December.

● Elite transition player. Turns defense into serious offense as we’ll discuss later in this section. If you give him some space, he has a functional enough handle to get all the way to the rim and finish. Fluid with the ball at his size, but also fills transition lanes incredibly well and creates a vertical threat o the ball. Great stride length. Motor shows up here in how hard he sprints. Covers ground quickly. Hard to stay in front. Explosive finisher if he gets a runway and will throw down some highlight-reel dunks. But more importantly, he finishes well with both hands at the basket on touch plays. Again, good contact balance. If you bump him, he’s still going to maintain his touch out on the break.

● Offensive play as a shot creator was a revelation this season and ultimately is why he has ended up as one of the best prospects of the last two decades. Duke used him as a primary playmaker, and the results were spectacular. After some early-season struggles in dealing with help defenders, Flagg adjusted and became one of the most lethal scorers in the country.

● Flagg was tasked with creating advantages and collapsing defenses himself for the first time in his career, and the results were ridiculous. Was a consistent mismatch nightmare. Duke used him a variety of ways, from a pick-and-roll ballhandler to an isolation threat to running him off screens as the primary option to using him as a roller and cutter. He was about as varied an offensive weapon as I can remember seeing in college basketball and he thrived in every single aspect.

● Moves really well without the ball and was able to find his way into about six points per game just through finding dead spaces in the defense off rolls and cuts or by playing hard and hitting the offensive glass. Always seems to be in motion when he doesn’t have the ball. Constantly trying to find ways to pressure defenders. Serious threat diving to the rim — either in pick-and-roll or just crashing the glass — because of his athleticism and ability to high-point the ball. Grabbed about 1.5 offensive rebounds per game. Empty-side ball screens with him as the screener were lethal. Elite in that short-roll area about 10 to 15 feet from the rim because of his ability to extend, stride out and finish with an advantage. Can’t really help off him because of his motor and activity.

● The way he grew in ball screens was the most exciting aspect of his game. Was consistently capable of getting downhill and getting all the way to the rim. Took about four half-court shots per game at the basket, a high number for a teenager. Shot 55 percent on these looks, but also had 19 dunks, showcasing his ability to finish above the rim. Additionally, Flagg lived at the foul line. Averaged more than six free-throw attempts per game this year and made 84 percent of them. Showcased a craftier handle than we’ve seen from him at lower levels, as well as a more advanced understanding of how to change pace. When he saw a crease, he was decisive in getting downhill. Has long strides that allow him to get to his spots quicker than you expect. Does a great job of using his off arm to create separation and cover ground. Has counters now depending on how defenders play him. Can spin back and use his strength to create separation. Has a solid crossover. Uses his pivot foot exceptionally well.

● Flagg’s midrange game was also lethal this year, something he’d shown a lot of strides with in his final year in high school, too. Hit his pull-up jumpers at a 45.8 effective field-goal percentage at Montverde in his last year, a massive leap. Took that to a new level this year. Showcased suddenness and comfort at stringing together moves to get to the spot he wanted. Has the ability to adapt in mid-air even if he goes up wrong-footed and re-align himself. Hit 33.3 percent of his pull-up midrange jumpers this year, per Synergy, which isn’t great but is a good building block. Loves to jab-step on a drive before setting a defender up and pulling from 3.

● Has also shown ability to knock down 3s, an underrated part of his game. Made 38.5 percent from 3 this season on nearly four attempts per game. Also made 39 percent of his 3s at Monteverde, showing growth as a shot-maker, especially off the catch. We’ll talk about some of the jumper questions in the next section, but Flagg has displayed comfort as a shooter. Montverde ran him off actions and sets and had him fire on the move. Duke did on occasion as well, and he made 10 3s this year off screens at a 43.5 percent clip, per Synergy. His ability to comfortably get his feet assembled and into position before firing on-balance is impressive. Can elevate on the jumper when he has to or take a set shot if he’s at a standstill. Can be wrong-footed and still elevate higher into a jumper while re-aligning himself in mid-air. Made pull-up 3s at a solid rate this year, too, hitting 41.4 percent on limited volume, per Synergy.

● Mismatch post threat. If he sets a screen and a switch comes, Flagg will aggressively go down onto the block and call for the ball to take advantage of his size, strength and footwork. Good at sealing smaller players away from the rim. Quick spin moves and drop steps. Was among the most efficient post players in the country this season largely because he picked his spots incredibly well.

[Im Still Ballin]

...


● All of this leads to what might be Flagg’s best offensive skill, though: his passing ability. A very unselfish player. Makes quick decisions. Doesn’t overdribble before finding his teammates. If someone is open, he’s going to hit them. Excellent at getting downhill and making live-dribble passes to create shots for his teammates. Does an amazing job of creating angles with jumps. Awesome at keeping his eyes up even as he goes up for a shot, looking for an easier opportunity for a teammate. Finds the cross-corner kickouts after the tagger sits on the roller. Finds the baseline reads to the corner. Excellent at finding cutters and dump-offs into the dunker spot.

● Even showed some extremely high-level short-roll kickout reads as the screener in ball-screen situations. Can put velocity on the ball, or just throw a well-timed lob with touch. Can throw nearly any pass he has to from any angle. Will be an awesome passer and playmaker for his teammates in the NBA when the passing windows get even wider. Averaged 4.2 assists per game this year versus only 2.1 turnovers.

● In high school, he was one of the best defensive playmakers I’ve ever evaluated at his age. He was incredibly disruptive. He flew around and used that tremendous reaction time to blow up plays all over the court in help situations. Clearly has preternatural anticipation compared to other players when roaming that weak side of the play. This year at Duke, it wasn’t quite that good, but it was still terrific. Averaged 1.4 steals and 1.4 blocks per game. Consistently made himself available for his teammates in help situations if they got beat. Had moments of very positive anticipation. He’s just constantly around the ball, and his presence stops offensive teams from even getting into the exact actions they want to.

● Wasn’t as elite a shot-blocker in college as he was in high school. Has maintained terrific fundamentals where he jumps straight up without fouling, and combines it with great timing to both bait the offensive player into the drive and also to get all the way across to high-point the ball and swat it. Stays big on the weak side. A significant piece of this, though, is that aforementioned anticipation. Didn’t play as much of a cat-and-mouse game this year at Duke, but in high school it felt like he was daring opposing players to try him. Sees things happen before other players do on the court.

● The numbers were ridiculous pre-Duke. Blocked 2.9 shots per game in the U17 World Cup as a 15-year-old in 2022. Blocked 4.8 shots per game on the EYBL circuit in 2023, a truly obscene number. Blocked 2.2 shots per game at Montverde in 2023-24. Interested to see if he can get back to that level in the NBA. But even at Duke, he definitely looked a step ahead of his competition.

● Has genuinely elite hand-eye coordination on defense. His timing to go up and contest or block shots is ridiculous. Always seems to get home on digs into the paint on drives and get his hand on the ball. Very timely with his decisions to double. Great at timing his anticipation reads when gambling to go for a steal. Disrupts opposing players on the ball with timely reaches. All of this leads to Flagg being truly elite at turning defense into early, high-leverage offensive possessions.

● Was good on the ball at Duke, not great. We’ll talk more about the negatives in the next section, but he had some moments where he got out-leveraged by smaller, quicker players. Will fight and recover against them, but does have some things to work on. However, against forwards, had absolutely no issues and was very impactful at Duke. Also did well in switches on centers. All told, he was a terrific defender at Duke whom offenses absolutely had to account for on that end of the court. He led Duke to a top-five defense nationally. He was rightfully a finalist for national college basketball Defensive Player of the Year this season. However, he wasn’t quite the potential challenger to Victor Wembanyama’s stranglehold over the NBA Defensive Player of the Year awards that he looked like he was in high school, either.

AREAS FOR IMPROVEMENT:

● Flagg’s jumper mechanics are a bit funky but improved during the year. He brings the ball up into his shooting pocket basically from his right shoulder and doesn’t always seem to have the same mechanics through the release. In high school, the arm motion through the shot was a bit off. But he drastically improved this part of his game and has really ironed out the mechanics this year. Things look much smoother coming out of his hand. Has really gotten rid of a number of hitchy issues he had at lower levels. I absolutely buy Flagg as a shooter long-term, but there may be some slight inconsistency early.

● More than anything, the handle is a potential point to watch. It can get a bit loose in a way that high school and college defenders couldn’t take advantage of because of how physical he is. Needs to tighten the handle up and keep it a bit closer to his body, especially on his drives toward the rim where the paint becomes even more condensed by length and aggressive, digging defenders.

● He plays a bit high and hunched off the bounce, which can lead to less suddenness and more awkwardness than you’d typically like to see when he gets into a crowded area. Sometimes struggled to separate from his man and had to take contested shots at the rim.

● I’m grasping at straws here, but his on-ball defense against perimeter players was not always amazing. He plays a bit high in his stance and can get out-leveraged by those players. Did give up more paint touches in these situations than I expected this season. Has the length and recovery ability to jump and contest from behind. His footwork and fundamentals can get awkward at times. Can get clipped occasionally going around screens.

● If Flagg ends up not making All-Defense in the NBA, I would bet that the reason will be because opposing guards try to take advantage of him in switches. He deals with these situations reasonably well for a combo forward, and I would bet he gets even better on the ball defensively against guards over time given that he’s still just 18, but wouldn’t project him to be as good as Kawhi Leonard, Herb Jones or Amen Thompson on the ball, either.

SUMMARY:

Flagg is about as complete a prospect as I’ve evaluated in the years I’ve been doing this. I have him as the second-best prospect during my time as an evaluator since 2015, behind only Victor Wembanyama. While I think Williamson’s theoretical ceiling was higher than Flagg’s, Flagg’s overall game on both ends of the court and his blend of skill level and craft will likely translate better to high-leverage situations. Two other factors make me pick Flagg over Williamson. First, with Flagg, there is no roster-building limitation. Because he’s so complete and such an elite competitor in terms of mentality, he’s an amplifier of those around him. With Williamson, you always needed to build a specific type of roster around him, likely needing to find the all-important floor-spacing center, a difficult archetype to acquire. Second, Williamson had injury concerns going back to high school. Flagg has not. The level of safety you get with Flagg drastically exceeds that of Williamson, even on draft day in 2019.

I see Flagg as a future All-NBA player with his upside being that he could become a top-five player in the league. His overall impact on the game on both ends of the floor is remarkable. He’s the exact kind of player you want to build your organization around in terms of temperament and mentality if you want to try to win championships. He’s an immediate organizational centerpiece.

[Im Still Ballin]

A nice player comparison video. Shows the most similarities with Pippen out of the guys shown, in my opinion. Tatum and Kawhi don't play off two feet like Cooper & Scottie. Andrei doesn't have the on-ball offensive game and is significantly taller and longer, standing at 6'9" barefoot, with a 7'4" wingspan and a standing reach of 9'1" to 9'3".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg7jQhWaZvU&ab_channel=PandaHank41

[Im Still Ballin]

Comparison talk from Iztok Franko:


By now, you can see that Flagg is such an intriguing prospect and difficult to compare because of his two-way potential and skill set. That’s why names like Leonard and Garnett come up. But even Kawhi wasn’t nearly the passer or high-usage scorer Flagg is at such a young age. Because of that, I split my comparisons into two groups of players: one for offense and one for defense.

Defense

First, it’s really hard to find a college prospect who matches Flagg’s combination of block rate, steal rate, defensive rebound rate, and defensive win share rate.

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:s teep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a3559f c-4b63-483f-86e5-b0ec1fde27bc_2974x1506.png

I don’t necessarily think Flagg will reach the same level of defensive impact as Anthony Davis, Kevin Garnett, or other anchor big types — or even Jonathan Isaac, who is truly elite when healthy. That’s mostly because those players have clear advantages in size and length. Draymond Green is another interesting comparison, partly due to the playmaking element, but he’s also a one-of-a-kind, high-IQ defender who’s tough to replicate.

Maybe Flagg’s competitiveness will help him become one of the best defenders in the league, but that’s hard to project. He’s also not the same kind of on-ball menace that someone like Toumani Camara or peak Ben Simmons was. However, even if his defensive ceiling ends up closer to that of a secondary rim protector and roamer — someone like Tari Eason, a comparison I personally like — that would still make him a very good, All-Defense caliber defender.

Offense

If it’s hard to find comparisons that match Flagg’s rebounding, block, and steal rates, finding a forward with similar scoring, usage, and assist rates might be an even tougher job.

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:s teep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F600e6de b-df43-4a09-94e5-569ffa924721_3032x1778.png

If you filter college stats for players with Flagg’s combination of scoring (over 20 points per 36), assists (over 4 per 36), usage rate (above 25%), and more than 100 three-point attempts in a season, you won’t find wings. Instead, you’ll mostly see high-usage scoring primary playmaking options like Stephen Curry, Kemba Walker, Damian Lillard, and Ja Morant.

A few interesting secondary playmaking wings that showed up in my comparisons once I lowered the thresholds were the previously mentioned Draymond Green and Ben Simmons, along with Evan Turner and Kyle Anderson. We’ll see whether Flagg develops more as a scorer — like Kawhi Leonard, Jayson Tatum, or Paul George — or as a playmaker in the mold of Draymond Green or Ben Simmons. The potential and uncertainty is what makes watching his career path unfold so intriguing.

[GOBB]

Outside of size why is Andre Igoudala comparison never used? Skillset seems similar

[Im Still Ballin]

Outside of size why is Andre Igoudala comparison never used? Skillset seems similar

ESPN made the comparison the other day:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45464827/2025-nba-draft-player-prospect-comps-14-projected-lottery-picks-cooper-flagg


1. Cooper Flagg, SF/PF, Duke
Mock draft projection: No. 1 to Mavericks | Top 100: No. 1

High end: Jayson Tatum with more defense
Low end: Andre Iguodala with more offense

Flagg is the consensus No. 1 pick for good reason: Statistically and empirically speaking, he's on a trajectory to become one of the top wings in the NBA. The question that has been asked all season, including by NBA executives, has been about what type of heights Flagg will reach. His well-rounded offense and stellar defense give him incredible baseline versatility for an 18-year-old entering the league, something the Mavericks should be able to exploit to their advantage next season. Some around the league have likened him to a modern Scottie Pippen, while Flagg himself has said he patterns his game after Tatum, who is his favorite player.

If Flagg continues to make strides creating his own shot -- where he has flashed comfort level in the midrange but needs refinement -- the possibility of a Tatum-like scoring leap is on the table. He has improved that facet of his game over the past couple of years, becoming more comfortable from long range and leaving room for optimism that he'll grow comfortable improvising and operating off the bounce. If he doesn't evolve into a legitimate No. 1 option, he might settle best as a second star alongside a more scoring-oriented teammate.

While Flagg figures to offer more offensively than Iguodala, who never topped the 20-point-per-game mark in his career, that comparison illustrates the ways he might add value apart from putting the ball in the basket by himself. As is the case with most of these comparisons, the likely outcome is often somewhere in the middle. In his case, the range of possibilities is more exciting than anxiety-inducing for NBA evaluators.

https://i.redd.it/1lpjadgj686f1.jpeg

[GOBB]

Finally someone has. Lol

[Meticode]

I think he'll fall somewhere in the middle. I don't think he'll ever been a MVP candidate like many people predict. I think he'll make three to six all-star teams and end up being a good secondary scorer. Similar to a Paul George or a notch below him before his MVP-type second with OKC.

[90sgoat]

I can sort of see the comparison with Tatum based on playstyle, but I don't think he'll end up being that passive.

[GOBB]

What does everyone think about VJ Edgecombe, Tre Johnson and Kon Pumpernickle

[tontoz]

What does everyone think about VJ Edgecombe, Tre Johnson and Kon Pumpernickle


VJ is a very good defender. Not sure what to make of him on offense. I didn't see much shot creation from him. Every now and then he would have a nice move and i would think why doesn't he do that more often? I wonder if he was just a freshman deferring to upper classmen. Most of his 3s were catch and shoot. Didn't see step backs or any move to clear space before shooting. He was pretty passive in general but would randomly get aggressive and produce. Wasn't a great finisher inside which i thought was odd given how athletic he is. Measured 6'4 w/o shoes which helped his stock. I thought he was shorter.

Tre has every jumper in the bag. If you've seen it from other guys he has it and took it several times. Elite movement shooter off the catch who can also create off the dribble. Not an elite athlete which limits him taking it to the rim. Pretty good playmaker. He has the clutch gene.

Kon i see as a nice glue guy to have playing with other stars. I think his reputation as a shooter is greater than the reality because he can't shoot off the dribble, or didn't do it well at Duke. Smart player, decent playmaker but i think he is overrated.

[GOBB]

VJ is a very good defender. Not sure what to make of him on offense. I didn't see much shot creation from him. Every now and then he would have a nice move and i would think why doesn't he do that more often? I wonder if he was just a freshman deferring to upper classmen. Most of his 3s were catch and shoot. Didn't see step backs or any move to clear space before shooting. He was pretty passive in general but would randomly get aggressive and produce. Wasn't a great finisher inside which i thought was odd given how athletic he is. Measured 6'4 w/o shoes which helped his stock. I thought he was shorter.

Tre has every jumper in the bag. If you've seen it from other guys he has it and took it several times. Elite movement shooter off the catch who can also create off the dribble. Not an elite athlete which limits him taking it to the rim. Pretty good playmaker. He has the clutch gene.

Kon i see as a nice glue guy to have playing with other stars. I think his reputation as a shooter is greater than the reality because he can't shoot off the dribble, or didn't do it well at Duke. Smart player, decent playmaker but i think he is overrated.

I don’t know what to make of VJ. Few folks comparing him to Westbrook but I dont see it. Westbrook just seemed like he’s always been aggressive and explosive as hell with the ball. VJ? Not so much from highlights I’ve seen. I like Tre Johnson over them all. And if it came down to him and Ace at pick 3. And Sixers went Tre I’m not mad.

[tontoz]

VJ has explosiveness like Westbrook, but not the relentless attack mode on offense. Better in D though.

Tre will probably be the best early on. Apparently he worked so hard that the coaches had to monitor his practice time to make sure he didn't work too hard.

[GOBB]

VJ has explosiveness like Westbrook, but not the relentless attack mode on offense. Better in D though.

Tre will probably be the best early on. Apparently he worked so hard that the coaches had to monitor his practice time to make sure he didn't work too hard.


Yeah the relentless attack on offense is probably what I’m referring too when I compare them.


Sixers being reported on trading up 1 spot with Spurs. Smh oh boy

[Carbine]

VJ definitely DOES NOT have explosiveness like Westbrook.

Westbrook when he was young had MJ level, potentially higher explosive traits. First step, stopping on an absolute dime, quickness off the floor, coast to coast speed. Westbrook was truly one of the top ten goats in terms of explosive athletic traits when he was younger.

VJ is so far from that caliber of athlete it's not even a discussion. It's so far from the truth I have to question wtf you are looking at.

[tontoz]

VJ definitely DOES NOT have explosiveness like Westbrook.

Westbrook when he was young had MJ level, potentially higher explosive traits. First step, stopping on an absolute dime, quickness off the floor, coast to coast speed. Westbrook was truly one of the top ten goats in terms of explosive athletic traits when he was younger.

VJ is so far from that caliber of athlete it's not even a discussion. It's so far from the truth I have to question wtf you are looking at.



At the combine Westbrook had a 36.5" max vert, 2" less than VJ :bowdown:

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-strength-agility

[ShawkFactory]

VJ definitely DOES NOT have explosiveness like Westbrook.

Westbrook when he was young had MJ level, potentially higher explosive traits. First step, stopping on an absolute dime, quickness off the floor, coast to coast speed. Westbrook was truly one of the top ten goats in terms of explosive athletic traits when he was younger.

VJ is so far from that caliber of athlete it's not even a discussion. It's so far from the truth I have to question wtf you are looking at.

VJ is certainly in the ballpark. He's only 19.

At 21 I think we'll see one of the most athletic people in the NBA.

[Carbine]

At the combine Westbrook had a 36.5" max vert, 2" less than VJ :bowdown:

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-strength-agility

And Tyler Hansbourough was a better combine athlete than Amare Stoudemire. A lot, ALOT of guards in the history of the combine have put up better combine numbers than Westbrook. It doesn't mean much of anything.

Just watch them play. Use your eyes. VJ not anywhere close to Goat level athletic ability from a guards perspective.

[Carbine]

He's not in the ballpark of goat athletic guard. Absolutely not. What the **** are you guys watching?

[tontoz]

And Tyler Hansbourough was a better combine athlete than Amare Stoudemire. A lot, ALOT of guards in the history of the combine have put up better combine numbers than Westbrook. It doesn't mean much of anything.

Just watch them play. Use your eyes. VJ not anywhere close to Goat level athletic ability from a guards perspective.

When you are talking about "explosion", as me and GOBB were, vertical jump is a big part of that.

What set Westbrook apart was his motor and aggressiveness. That is a separate issue. VJ doesn't have that on offense. His motor is much better on D.

Iverson might be the most athletic guard ive seen.

[Im Still Ballin]

VJ's finishing at the rim is questionable, apparently. No touch, it seems.

[Carbine]

When you are talking about "explosion", as me and GOBB were, vertical jump is a big part of that.

What set Westbrook apart was his motor and aggressiveness. That is a separate issue. VJ doesn't have that on offense. His motor is much better on D.

Iverson might be the most athletic guard ive seen.

No, what separates Westbrook from being a role player was his ungodly explosiveness. He still has the same motor and aggressiveness (and low IQ) but he doesn't have that overpowering speed, quickness, stop and start ability like he did in his prime and we can see the results - he's essentially a role player now even though he's still a pretty good athlete.

[tontoz]

No, what separates Westbrook from being a role player was his ungodly explosiveness. He still has the same motor and aggressiveness (and low IQ) but he doesn't have that overpowering speed, quickness, stop and start ability like he did in his prime and we can see the results - he's essentially a role player now even though he's still a pretty good athlete.

That's just your perception. Speed, quickness and hops are measured at the combine. Motor isn't.

If Westbrook was exactly the same athletically when he was young but was more passive on offense then your perception of his athleticism would have been different.

[GOBB]

I stand corrected maybe VJ is Westbrook (same age)

https://youtu.be/xW6VP48fc-g?si=cOBuWOWbrbAk6LBk

Westbrook became way more explosive in the NBA. I can’t say for sure what season. Might check out rookie year 2 etc highlights. But at UCLA his athleticism is on par with what I’ve seen from VJ. Someone like Derrick rose had noticeable freak athletic ability in HS. Never saw Russell in HS. But at ucla it’s not the same. Russell really put in work because I always wondered why he went so high in the draft. I think his motor got him drafted. It’s something you have or don’t really. You can develop your game quicker I think if you have a really high motor. But Westbrook is also a dog. Those two things are huge imo.

[Im Still Ballin]

The combine does a pretty good job of capturing raw athleticism. One aspect it does miss, though, is jump quickness and two-foot vs. one-foot ability.

[tontoz]

Apparently Bailey's stock is falling. He is refusing workouts. Hopefully he falls to us.

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1934962714410938502?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1934962714410938502%7Ctwgr% 5E2b82ac667be5e153b55444913734d10d35413ad1%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.realgm.com%2Fboards%2 Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D2462628start%3D420

[Chick Stern]

No, what separates Westbrook from being a role player was his ungodly explosiveness. He still has the same motor and aggressiveness (and low IQ) but he doesn't have that overpowering speed, quickness, stop and start ability like he did in his prime and we can see the results - he's essentially a role player now even though he's still a pretty good athlete.

This. 100% Ja’s future.

[GOBB]

Apparently Bailey's stock is falling. He is refusing workouts. Hopefully he falls to us.

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1934962714410938502?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1934962714410938502%7Ctwgr% 5E2b82ac667be5e153b55444913734d10d35413ad1%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.realgm.com%2Fboards%2 Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D2462628start%3D420

What is with all the ace slander? I can’t think of a recent prospect that’s faced this much criticism.

[Meticode]

Apparently Bailey's stock is falling. He is refusing workouts. Hopefully he falls to us.

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1934962714410938502?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1934962714410938502%7Ctwgr% 5E2b82ac667be5e153b55444913734d10d35413ad1%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.realgm.com%2Fboards%2 Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D2462628start%3D420

Could be a combo of things. One, he doesn't want to go to the Hornets, Jazz, Wizards or Pelicans. Two, he's confident he'll be the #2 or #3 pick. Looks like he'll take his chances of getting drafted two or three, or falling out of the franchises he doesn't want to draft him.

[tontoz]

What is with all the ace slander? I can’t think of a recent prospect that’s faced this much criticism.

It was that way during the season too. He got off to a slow start, turning it over a lot/rarely getting assists/ taking bad shots. Some people went in on him and then wouldn't come off their takes when his play improved.

[GOBB]

Sixers refuted reports he’s not working out. He’s scheduled to come here end of week/

[Meticode]

Bailey cancelled his 76ers workout

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45541843/ace-bailey-cancels-76ers-visit-ahead-nba-draft

[GOBB]

And just like that Ace Bailey canceled workouts Friday. I had to look up his agent. And of course it’s someone inexperienced. Although that’s kind of messed up to say. But the main point is whoever is guiding Ace in this whole process is doing a terrible job. Be it parents, agents, both whomever. Yikes.

[Carbine]

Or maybe it's a smart move. The money lost going from #3 to #8 isn't that much if the situation is MUCH better to become "the guy"

Philly can't give him the shots needed to be anything more than a third/fourth option at best.

If he forces his way to Nets he can take #2 and eventually #1 option shot attempts during his rookie contract, enabling him to get a bag for his second contract all while being "the man" for that team.

[Carbine]

Or maybe it's a smart move. The money lost going from #3 to #8 isn't that much if the situation is MUCH better to become "the guy"

Philly can't give him the shots needed to be anything more than a third/fourth option at best.

If he forces his way to Nets he can take #2 and eventually #1 option shot attempts during his rookie contract, enabling him to get a bag for his second contract all while being "the man" for that team.

[GOBB]

Or maybe it's a smart move. The money lost going from #3 to #8 isn't that much if the situation is MUCH better to become "the guy"

Philly can't give him the shots needed to be anything more than a third/fourth option at best.

If he forces his way to Nets he can take #2 and eventually #1 option shot attempts during his rookie contract, enabling him to get a bag for his second contract all while being "the man" for that team.

Not smart at all really. Go to a bad franchise and expect winning results. Just doing numbers won’t matter. Jordan Poole went to a crappy franchise and look how his career is panning out since leaving a good situation with the Warriors. The only difference would be the relationship with Green and how much that factored in him not being there. But he expressed a strong desire to “be the man”.

It’s also not like the Sixers are deep. George plays forward but losing Yabu the Sixers are thin at forward. Sixers bench isn’t the strongest either. It’s made up of guys who have to prove/fight for minutes. I guess that’s what he is afraid of? Given he did run to Rutgers.

I don’t see a good situation being a 18yr old with ball handling issues (attacking rim, creating space) where not being able to develop vs putting up “numbers” is beneficial for him per say. But hey he wanna go to nets or Wizards good luck.

He’s being given some bad advice as well as preparation. Agent/parents whomever is dropping the ball. Why didn’t he hire Rich Paul

Spurs situation isn’t any better and Dylan Harper isn’t following suit.

[tontoz]

We need a good break after getting ****ed in the lottery. Ace at 6 would be a gift.

[GOBB]

We need a good break after getting ****ed in the lottery. Ace at 6 would be a gift.

Spending possible but who knows with all these reports. It’s getting kinda exhausting lol I’m just read for the draft to be over.

And all this Paul George trade talks make zero sense.

[Meticode]

Less than a week to go! Ace Bailey is probably the most interesting part of the draft right now. Flagg and Harper are a lock for number one and two. Bailey choosing to not workout for anyone is kind of perplexing. Not even working out for the Sixers who are slotted to pick him at number three? Maybe post-draft in an interview he'll let people know why him and/or his agent chose to do this?

[tontoz]

Wizards are actively trying to trade up to 2 for Harper as well. I would give up a lot to get him, 6 + 18 and any player they want.

[Meticode]

Wizards are actively trying to trade up to 2 for Harper as well. I would give up a lot to get him, 6 + 18 and any player they want.

Time to restart the rebuild for the Wizards?

[Im Still Ballin]

If only they still had Avdija to offer in the deal.

[tontoz]

If only they still had Avdija to offer in the deal.


That is a sore subject :facepalm

It has been decades since the Wizards drafted someone outside of the top 3 that didnt suck. We finally hit on a guy, resigned him to a cheap contract, then dump him.

:banghead:

[Meticode]

Michael Wilbon talks about the Ace Bailey situation. Bailey's camp gets called delusional, talks about how Josh Jackson out of Kansas in 2017. The Celtics flew all the out to the West coast because he was their main target on their radar and after the Celtics landed to watch him workout he cancelled the workout on them. The Celtics ended up drafting Tatum because of this.

Wilbon said, "It's stupid...him and his advisors...what that is is ego-mania. I hope he can separate himself from stupid advice he's being given if it's not just him making this choice."

https://youtu.be/rLcc2ROOfR8?t=265

[ShawkFactory]

Michael Wilbon talks about the Ace Bailey situation. Bailey's camp gets called delusional, talks about how Josh Jackson out of Kansas in 2017. The Celtics flew all the out to the West coast because he was their main target on their radar and after the Celtics landed to watch him workout he cancelled the workout on them. The Celtics ended up drafting Tatum because of this.

Wilbon said, "It's stupid...him and his advisors...what that is is ego-mania. I hope he can separate himself from stupid advice he's being given if it's not just him making this choice."

https://youtu.be/rLcc2ROOfR8?t=265

Yep and we see what happened with Jackson...nothing. Some people like to say that professionalism with athletes doesn't matter but it does. If you're not even going to handle the draft process like a pro then how is anyone supposed to believe that you're going to take anything else seriously enough to be as great as possible?

[Meticode]

Yep and we see what happened with Jackson...nothing. Some people like to say that professionalism with athletes doesn't matter but it does. If you're not even going to handle the draft process like a pro then how is anyone supposed to believe that you're going to take anything else seriously enough to be as great as possible?

Just need to look at the Sanders situation in the NFL. Meeting with the Giants went horribly showing immaturity. Now the season hasn't even started yet and he's been pulled over twice in Cleveland within a month for going like 40mph over. Already showing unprofessionalism and immaturity.

[GOBB]

Yep and we see what happened with Jackson...nothing. Some people like to say that professionalism with athletes doesn't matter but it does. If you're not even going to handle the draft process like a pro then how is anyone supposed to believe that you're going to take anything else seriously enough to be as great as possible?

He’s 18. While some responsibility should be on him. The people who are older, wiser, experienced should be the ones guiding him. They hold way more responsibility in that regard. Again he gets no passes however be mindful of the age and maturity. We all learn how to be a professional from observing but mostly being schooled by…a professional. Ijs.

Whoever is advising him be it agent, parents, others (any combination) are doing him a disservice.

[tontoz]

Yep and we see what happened with Jackson...nothing. Some people like to say that professionalism with athletes doesn't matter but it does. If you're not even going to handle the draft process like a pro then how is anyone supposed to believe that you're going to take anything else seriously enough to be as great as possible?

Jalen Johnson quit Duke in the middle of the season. Was that professional? Does Atlanta care?

I give no Fs about Bailey's agent pissing people off.

[ShawkFactory]

Jalen Johnson quit Duke in the middle of the season. Was that professional? Does Atlanta care?

I give no Fs about Bailey's agent pissing people off.

Obviously not now. But that's likely a big reason why he fell as far as he did.

[GOBB]

Jalen Johnson quit Duke in the middle of the season. Was that professional? Does Atlanta care?

I give no Fs about Bailey's agent pissing people off.

That’s because you’re a wizards fan starved for young talent with potential. His agent is being an idiot

[tontoz]

That’s because you’re a wizards fan starved for young talent with potential. His agent is being an idiot

Yeah but I wouldn't hold Ace accountable for that even if we didn't have a high pick. I judge him based on what I saw on the court. I would say I watched roughly 10 of his games. I base my opinion on that, not this agent nonsense.

I don't think Morey was that interested in him anyway because he is a bit of a project.

[GOBB]

I like Tre Johnson over VJ. You still won’t have a PG even if you took VJ. So I rather the explosive scorer (potential) that Tre has. As long as he is a willing defender the defense won’t be a big deal to me.

[tontoz]

I like Tre Johnson over VJ. You still won’t have a PG even if you took VJ. So I rather the explosive scorer (potential) that Tre has. As long as he is a willing defender the defense won’t be a big deal to me.

Tre was pretty lazy on D and on the boards. I would hope he puts out more effort in he pros but it's definitely a question mark.

His offense is legit though and he is an obsessive worker, to the point that the coaches had to kick him out of the gym so he had some energy left for games.

[GOBB]

Tre was pretty lazy on D and on the boards. I would hope he puts out more effort in he pros but it's definitely a question mark.

His offense is legit though and he is an obsessive worker, to the point that the coaches had to kick him out of the gym so he had some energy left for games.

If he can just be a willing defender I think you would be fine.

[tontoz]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/61c9c379-dc9e-4342-8972-a3c17258e5a1/8ee06929-5b15-48f4-88b0-bf028cb8f50a.jpg

[tontoz]

Vegas odds on top 6

1. Flagg -50,000 (lock)

2. Harper -5,000 (lock)

3.Edgecombe -250
Bailey +400

4. Kneuppel +180
Bailey +300

5. Johnson +180
Bailey +300

6.Bailey +275
Fears +300
Maluach +400

[GOBB]

Tre Johnson
Ace bailey
Edgecombe

Morey might take Ace and drop money on them odds lol If I gambled I would toss money on it.

[tontoz]

More good news from Vegas:

#3 pick: Edgecombe is now -350
#4 pick: Kneuppel is now -230

[GOBB]

More good news from Vegas:

#3 pick: Edgecombe is now -350
#4 pick: Kneuppel is now -230

How is that good news!!!!! Ugh Edgecombe better not be a 3 and D mofo. Ace going to go to Utah with Danny Ainge.

[tontoz]

How is that good news!!!!! Ugh Edgecombe better not be a 3 and D mofo. Ace going to go to Utah with Danny Ainge.


It is good news because the Hornets want VJ. I would guess he is their top pick. If they take Kon then that means at least one of Ace/Tre falls to us.

If Philly drafts Ace/Tre then the Hornets will take VJ and we are probably sol.

[GOBB]

It is good news because the Hornets want VJ. I would guess he is their top pick. If they take Kon then that means at least one of Ace/Tre falls to us.

If Philly drafts Ace/Tre then the Hornets will take VJ and we are probably sol.

I know why it’s good news (for you) lol I just don’t like it. Trying hard to find someone to sell me on VJ. Have yet to find a video.

[tontoz]

I know why it’s good news (for you) lol I just don’t like it. Trying hard to find someone to sell me on VJ. Have yet to find a video.

I saw him show some shot creation at random times but he looked like he was deferring for the most part. He is a legit impact player on D though.

This guy does a good job breaking down prospects.


https://youtu.be/Zsqq8VDQsao?si=qj0xbaQJx7rI-LmQ

[GOBB]

Thanks! I’ll check it out now. I just got done watching one of my fav podcasts

https://youtu.be/mQ91ycpaOFQ?si=mcAWMackoJQOlsfr

These young dudes are pretty damn cool.

[tontoz]

I cant remember being this nervous about the draft. A few years back i wasn't following the draft at all. When we drafted Rui/Deni/Bilal i knew nothing about them.

[GOBB]

I cant remember being this nervous about the draft. A few years back i wasn't following the draft at all. When we drafted Rui/Deni/Bilal i knew nothing about them.

Why nervous? Lol


Coach Cal on VJ

"I told Philly fans a year ago that JE was gonna be a gem and that Maxey was the steal of the draft as his former coach at Kentucky back when he fell to 21 , I'm telling you now that VJ is the best guard In this draft. If I was the coach at Kentucky last year I swear I could've landed him because of our "GUARD" reputation. He's everything you want on and off the court. I tried to steal him from Baylor but it wasn't meant to be. I keep seeing Philly as his mock destination and those fans should be estatic knowing Maxey & Him + McCain will be in that backcourt for years to come. Nurse is getting one hell of a player If that's what Philly decides to do. VJ is one of those guys that after you see him in person realize why he's so highly sought after. He's better than people know........

Later on he goes on to say J. Fears is gonna be a an all star with right situation when he was asked which NON TOP 5 prospect is likely to shine... He thinks VJ and Maxey could be Garland & Mitchell "like" in terms of success for an undersized backcourt

- Coach Cal today on 99.5 Radio.



I’m not going to argue, challenge nor question Coach Cal when it comes to NBA productive guards. His resumes speaks volumes. lol I’ll be eating some crow I see.

[tontoz]

Why nervous? Lol





I’m not going to argue, challenge nor question Coach Cal when it comes to NBA productive guards. His resumes speaks volumes. lol I’ll be eating some crow I see.



Did you see that your Governor was telling the team not to draft Ace? :lol


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/pennsylvania-gov-josh-shapiro-sends-pointed-message-of-concern-about-about-76ers-drafting-ace-bailey/#:~:text=While%20Philadelphia%20still%20may%20draf t,the%20workout%20with%20the%20team.


VJ isn't that undersized BTW. He measured 6'4 w/o shoes.

[GOBB]

Yeah he’s an idiot. Should stay out of sports topics like that

[Im Still Ballin]

If they're not feeling the other draftees, Philly should say F it and draft Ace like they did Barkley. Call his bluff; what's he going to do? If he's good enough he'll get his chance over the next 4 years to get that big 2nd contract.

[tontoz]

Ace is a bit of a project. It will take awhile for him to develop good habits. VJ and Tre are definitely more advanced and ready to contribute right now. Morey has to be thinking about his job security at this point.

Ace does some wild stuff at times. Early in the season I posted on a wizards board that I couldn't pick him top 5 because of all the negative plays. He started playing better right after that but he has a ways to go to be effective.