Cooper Flagg Discussion Thread

[Manny98]

This is a thread to discuss all things related to the future face of the NBA once LeBron retires

[Manny98]

Just signed a shoe deal with New Balance :applause:


https://youtu.be/vwOPb5DAPyw?si=JO4A-yklBdjDTqIS

[ralph_i_el]

His jump shot looks robotic to me. The ball comes off with good arc, but I'm not sure about the touch. His defense/court sense/athleticism all look amazing though. I kind of feel like he may fall in the Aaron Gordon lane, where he's so impactful that he earns a huge deal, but is not able to be a #1 option offensively. We'll see.

[Manny98]

His jump shot looks robotic to me. The ball comes off with good arc, but I'm not sure about the touch. His defense/court sense/athleticism all look amazing though. I kind of feel like he may fall in the Aaron Gordon lane, where he's so impactful that he earns a huge deal, but is not able to be a #1 option offensively. We'll see.

He's 17 and already a all NBA level defender and has shown a level of defensive versatility we haven't seen since Andrei Kirerlenko

His overall basketball iq and feel for the game is WAY ahead of anyone in his age group, his jump shot needs work but I'm confident he can develop that within the next few years, he's already a decent free throw shooter

[90sgoat]

Just signed a shoe deal with New Balance :applause:


https://youtu.be/vwOPb5DAPyw?si=JO4A-yklBdjDTqIS

"The intelligent choice"

:lol :facepalm

:biggums:

[90sgoat]

No matter what it would be very good for american basketball with a white american superstar. The US has not had a lot of success producing white talent, which we all know shouldn't be like that consider how many great white players there used to be. If the US is to have any hope of winning future Olympics it must use all its talent.

[Wardell Curry]

No matter what it would be very good for american basketball with a white american superstar. The US has not had a lot of success producing white talent, which we all know shouldn't be like that consider how many great white players there used to be. If the US is to have any hope of winning future Olympics it must use all its talent.

There might be some small percentage of basketball fans that care about a white dude being the best but not really.

Look at the jersey sales. There's nothing else to say. Anyone who argues otherwise is spitting into a headwind.

People just want to see and root for the best and that's it.

[90sgoat]

There might be some small percentage of basketball fans that care about a white dude being the best but not really.

Look at the jersey sales. There's nothing else to say. Anyone who argues otherwise is spitting into a headwind.

People just want to see and root for the best and that's it.

People like drama and a good white american star will create so much salty drama.

[DJMcDonald]

He's 17 and already a all NBA level defender and has shown a level of defensive versatility we haven't seen since Andrei Kirerlenko



:facepalm

[1987_Lakers]

:facepalm

:oldlol:

[Lebron23]

He'll be a better Gordon Hayward

[ralph_i_el]

He's 17 and already a all NBA level defender and has shown a level of defensive versatility we haven't seen since Andrei Kirerlenko

His overall basketball iq and feel for the game is WAY ahead of anyone in his age group, his jump shot needs work but I'm confident he can develop that within the next few years, he's already a decent free throw shooter

Of course he will be an elite defender. That's not going to be enough with his hype. Shawn Marion had multiple 20ppg seasons. A slightly taller Shawn Marion with a marginally better jumper is a hall of fame player....but people will dwell on the superstar skills that he might not have. :confusedshrug: time will tell. I'm excited to see how it plays out.

[ralph_i_el]

He'll be a better Gordon Hayward

Hayward early in his career got a ton of reps as a PnR ball-handler for Utah. It was sloppy initially, but it contributed highly to his development as a scorer and playmaker off the dribble. IDK if Flagg will get those reps. Who knows.

[Manny98]

:facepalm
You have never seen him play so stfu you Korean shit,

[tontoz]

In b4 3ball starts hating on him.

[Xiao Yao You]

Hayward early in his career got a ton of reps as a PnR ball-handler for Utah. It was sloppy initially, but it contributed highly to his development as a scorer and playmaker off the dribble. IDK if Flagg will get those reps. Who knows.
Will he have an elite screener and roller alongside him like hayward did.

[Manny98]

Cooper is WAY better defensively than Hayward and is way better of a playmaker and off ball scorer already

Cooper is a generational talent who's floor is Andrei Kirerlenko with slightly better offense and has GOAT ceiling


He's the most talented prospect since LeBron in my opinion and the most talented white prospect ever

[tpols]

Cooper is WAY better defensively than Hayward and is way better of a playmaker and off ball scorer already

Cooper is a generational talent who's floor is Andrei Kirerlenko with slightly better offense and has GOAT ceiling


He's the most talented prospect since LeBron in my opinion and the most talented white prospect ever


You're jumping the gun a little bit buddy calling a 17 year old the GOAT. Catching Jokic alone is going to be borderline impossible.

[1987_Lakers]

Not saying he is gonna bust, but this reminds me of a poster who was a huge OJ Mayo fan when he was in high school, had his username named after him and everything.

Mayo was the most hyped up high school player since LeBron, we know how that turned out.

[Manny98]

You're jumping the gun a little bit buddy calling a 17 year old the GOAT. Catching Jokic alone is going to be borderline impossible.
No his ceiling is GOAT if he lives up to his full potential

[Manny98]

Not saying he is gonna bust, but this reminds me of a poster who was a huge OJ Mayo fan when he was in high school, had his username named after him and everything.

Mayo was the most hyped up high school player since LeBron, we know how that turned out.

OJ Mayo was an overhyped prospect who had no substance to back it up

Cooper has already dominated against NBA pros in the US select scrimmages


https://youtu.be/ASoYfJMmBF8?si=gD95ykUa0zPAvPHw

[tpols]

Not saying he is gonna bust, but this reminds me of a poster who was a huge OJ Mayo fan when he was in high school, had his username named after him and everything.

Mayo was the most hyped up high school player since LeBron, we know how that turned out.

There are a lot of guys like that. Ben Simmons and Andrew Wiggins were supposed to be slam dunk superstar picks.

[1987_Lakers]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVmggl6UYAEIfxi.jpg:large

[tontoz]

i will wait until i see him in college before making any projections. Looks like he has good size/athleticism/handles but not a lot of rotation on his jumper.

[Manny98]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVmggl6UYAEIfxi.jpg:large

Like I said overhyped by the media

Flagg is different he actually has shown levels of talent we have not seen in a prospect for the past 25 years

[Axe]

Better pray he doesn't become injury-prone once he starts playing in the league these coming few years.

[DJMcDonald]

You have never seen him play so stfu you Korean shit,

You found out who AK47 was last week:roll:

[Manny98]

You found out who AK47 was last week:roll:

:oldlol:

[WhiteKyrie]

"The intelligent choice"

:lol :facepalm

:biggums:

It’s NB’s slogan


No matter what it would be very good for american basketball with a white american superstar. The US has not had a lot of success producing white talent, which we all know shouldn't be like that consider how many great white players there used to be. If the US is to have any hope of winning future Olympics it must use all its talent.

The American basketball developmental system is racist and fetishizes certain attributes in players that doesn’t lend itself to white American players really getting the same level of opportunity to develop like overseas products like Jokic and Luka etc. white American players have way more obstacles to overcome

[ralph_i_el]

Like I said overhyped by the media

Flagg is different he actually has shown levels of talent we have not seen in a prospect for the past 25 years

I look at him, and then look at AJ Dybantsa. Dybantsa looks like an 1st option scorer, Flagg sometimes does not. That's all:confusedshrug:

[90sgoat]

Like I said overhyped by the media

Flagg is different he actually has shown levels of talent we have not seen in a prospect for the past 25 years

Harold Miner

Isiah Rider

Jerry Stackhose

I think they stopped after that and overlooked the real next MJ, Kobe and the next real other superstar, Allen Iverson.

Don't look for the next Lebron, look for the next themselves.

[Manny98]

Good breakdown video of his game for those who are not familiar


https://youtu.be/SKMtlv3DjfE?si=mrsFMmePEjZhlaig

He's an all nba level defender at the age of 17 and has good upside offensively

[90sgoat]

I think Cooper Flagg is going to be the white Kevin Garnett.

It's not a 1 to 1 in play style, but the combination of insane athleticism and length, open floor ability and versatility is very similar.

Coop is going to be the same kind of player, the ultimate help defender, the ultimate second option of offense, exactly like Garnett.

AD is another good comparison, but Coop seems to be more of a big SF than a PF/C like AD.

Clifford Robinson type.

[Neal Romer]

I think Cooper Flagg is going to be the white Kevin Garnett.

It's not a 1 to 1 in play style, but the combination of insane athleticism and length, open floor ability and versatility is very similar.

Coop is going to be the same kind of player, the ultimate help defender, the ultimate second option of offense, exactly like Garnett.

AD is another good comparison, but Coop seems to be more of a big SF than a PF/C like AD.

Clifford Robinson type.


If hes actually as long as KG then I could see this comparison making sense. My guess would be hes not but I could be wrong.

I wish the NBA posted definitive measurements people could actually take seriously. But alas...

[Im Still Ballin]

New video from No Ceilings breaking down Cooper Flagg's game:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aY7jYXqF_I


I think Cooper Flagg is going to be the white Kevin Garnett.

It's not a 1 to 1 in play style, but the combination of insane athleticism and length, open floor ability and versatility is very similar.

Coop is going to be the same kind of player, the ultimate help defender, the ultimate second option of offense, exactly like Garnett.

AD is another good comparison, but Coop seems to be more of a big SF than a PF/C like AD.

Clifford Robinson type.

I agree with the general archetype sentiment.

Some interesting comparisons:

- Wing-sized young Anthony Davis
- Marion/KG mix
- Wing-sized KG
- AK47 with on-ball upside (shooting, ball handling, etc)
- Marion with on-ball upside (shooting, ball handling, etc)
- Tatum on offense; AK47 on defense
- Tatum/AK47 mix
- High IQ Josh Smith with on-ball upside (shooting, ball handling, etc)
- Longer, more athletic Shane Battier with on-ball upside (shooting, ball handling, etc)


If hes actually as long as KG then I could see this comparison making sense. My guess would be hes not but I could be wrong.

I wish the NBA posted definitive measurements people could actually take seriously. But alas...

They made it mandatory for draftees to take part in the NBA Combine. It's why we got measurements from everyone this year. Who knows what Cooper's numbers will look like? My safe estimates:

- 6'7" to 6'8" barefoot height
- 6'8.25" to 6'9.25" height in shoes
- 7'0" to 7'3" wingspan
- 8'11" to 9'2" standing reach
- 210 to 215 pounds
- 30" to 35" standing vertical leap
- 35" to 40" max vertical leap
- 11'10" to 12'6" max reach

Back in 2014, Jokic measured in at 6'11" in shoes, a 7'3" wingspan, and a 9'3" standing reach. Nikola's bodily proportions (relative limb length, hand size, and clavicle width) look similar to Cooper's. Easier to see when Jokic was at a lower body weight.

I wouldn't be surprised if he measures in at a 2" smaller version of that: 6'9" in shoes, 7'1" wingspan, 9'1" standing reach.

[90sgoat]

I don't need to watch a lot to see that Coop is extremely long and athletic.

He's also taller than you think, my guess is 6'9'' barefoot and 6'10'' in shoes.

Weight: 230lbs.

This guy is a lot more athletic than people think. He has a similar build to Dirk Nowitsky except more athletic.

[Manny98]

I think Cooper Flagg is going to be the white Kevin Garnett.

It's not a 1 to 1 in play style, but the combination of insane athleticism and length, open floor ability and versatility is very similar.

Coop is going to be the same kind of player, the ultimate help defender, the ultimate second option of offense, exactly like Garnett.

AD is another good comparison, but Coop seems to be more of a big SF than a PF/C like AD.

Clifford Robinson type.
I like the "White Kevin Garnett" comparison

I can see him putting up around 24/10/6 in his prime winning multiple dpoy awards

[Im Still Ballin]

I don't need to watch a lot to see that Coop is extremely long and athletic.

He's also taller than you think, my guess is 6'9'' barefoot and 6'10'' in shoes.

Weight: 230lbs.

This guy is a lot more athletic than people think. He has a similar build to Dirk Nowitsky except more athletic.

I think 6'9" barefoot is probably pushing it per his photos with 6'8" barefoot Jayson Tatum and 6'7.25" LeBron James:

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/2160629898/photo/las-vegas-nv-chip-engelland-jayson-tatum-of-the-usab-mens-team-cooper-flagg-of-the-usab-mens.jpg?s=612x612&w=gi&k=20&c=8MArazMFhaNktmFAo19nYrdPO83JIVCMLbSKUmX9CyI=

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/2160615534/photo/las-vegas-nv-cooper-flagg-of-the-usab-mens-selects-team-greets-lebron-james-of-the-usab-mens.jpg?s=612x612&w=gi&k=20&c=6a8NiZMKeRNmHB6zRaAJ7DtpJXhm2xPZvCYP2OH45X0=

[Neal Romer]

I think 6'9" barefoot is probably pushing it per his photos with 6'8" barefoot Jayson Tatum and 6'7.25" LeBron James:

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/2160629898/photo/las-vegas-nv-chip-engelland-jayson-tatum-of-the-usab-mens-team-cooper-flagg-of-the-usab-mens.jpg?s=612x612&w=gi&k=20&c=8MArazMFhaNktmFAo19nYrdPO83JIVCMLbSKUmX9CyI=

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/2160615534/photo/las-vegas-nv-cooper-flagg-of-the-usab-mens-selects-team-greets-lebron-james-of-the-usab-mens.jpg?s=612x612&w=gi&k=20&c=6a8NiZMKeRNmHB6zRaAJ7DtpJXhm2xPZvCYP2OH45X0=

https://www.sportsknot.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/jpeg-optimizer_81863047.0.jpg


I know pics are never precise but Flagg's shoulders look about a half inch to an inch higher than Bron's. KG's are like 3 inches higher at least. Plus the arm itself is probably longer.

I agree KG is probably the best comparison for who Flagg played like in high school. But hes not gonna have that length advantage at the NBA level unless hes still growing. So I dont see him being a major paint protector as a pro.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Hard to see anyone else getting multiple DPoY awards in what is going to be the Wembanyama era. Flagg seems like he will be very good, possibly even great, but Wembanyama distorts the game with his length and agility. If his coaches can get him to stop shooting threes or he becomes good at shooting threes I don't see how Flagg is ever a better player than him but Flagg could be a perennial top 10 or top 5 guy, which should still be a great career.

[Im Still Ballin]

Here's a slowed-down GIF of Cooper standing close to 6'8.75" barefoot Bam Adebayo:

https://i.ibb.co/x6nLGzL/94impn.gif

And at the free-throw line:

https://i.ibb.co/ZMLHqrP/94iptw.gif

https://i.ibb.co/sCcgRtF/94iqx9.gif

[Neal Romer]

Here's a slowed-down GIF of Cooper standing close to 6'8.75" barefoot Bam Adebayo:

https://i.ibb.co/x6nLGzL/94impn.gif


Yep. The shoulder height difference is pretty clear.

Size-wise Flagg is more of a big wing than a 'big.' Obviously it's still possible to look like one and play like the other. But I just see Flagg as more of a Franz Wagner at the NBA level. Which isnt a knock, Wagner's a very good player. I just dont see what aspect Flagg is going to DOMINATE in, based on his size/game at present. But he hasnt even played in college yet so theres still plenty left to learn about how he'll project.

[Im Still Ballin]

Found a really good shot:

https://i.ibb.co/brW9d57/94it8m.gif

[warriorfan]

Yep. The shoulder height difference is pretty clear.

Size-wise Flagg is more of a big wing than a 'big.' Obviously it's still possible to look like one and play like the other. But I just see Flagg as more of a Franz Wagner at the NBA level. Which isnt a knock, Wagner's a very good player. I just dont see what aspect Flagg is going to DOMINATE in, based on his size/game at present. But he hasnt even played in college yet so theres still plenty left to learn about how he'll project.

This was my initial off the bat take as well. Thats why I was talking about him not bulking too much and try to be a pippen like player.

If he has the athleticism to pull it off it will be better for him to be a large wing rather than an undersized big man.

Can slide between both forward spots and be able to switch on big men when needed

Im thinking that is where he wants to be.

[Manny98]

Hard to see anyone else getting multiple DPoY awards in what is going to be the Wembanyama era. Flagg seems like he will be very good, possibly even great, but Wembanyama distorts the game with his length and agility. If his coaches can get him to stop shooting threes or he becomes good at shooting threes I don't see how Flagg is ever a better player than him but Flagg could be a perennial top 10 or top 5 guy, which should still be a great career.

Can wemby defend 1-5 at an elite level and switch onto any position?

Wemby is a fantastic rim protector and will win multiple DPOY but Flagg has demonstrated defensive versatility and impact that we've never seen from a 17 year old

[Im Still Ballin]

Yep. The shoulder height difference is pretty clear.

Size-wise Flagg is more of a big wing than a 'big.' Obviously it's still possible to look like one and play like the other. But I just see Flagg as more of a Franz Wagner at the NBA level. Which isnt a knock, Wagner's a very good player. I just dont see what aspect Flagg is going to DOMINATE in, based on his size/game at present. But he hasnt even played in college yet so theres still plenty left to learn about how he'll project.


This was my initial off the bat take as well. Thats why I was talking about him not bulking too much and try to be a pippen like player.

If he has the athleticism to pull it off it will be better for him to be a large wing rather than an undersized big man.

Can slide between both forward spots and be able to switch on big men when needed

Im thinking that is where he wants to be.

Big wing is definitely what it looks like. Will have to wait to get those wingspan and standing reach measurements though. His arms are really long on film.

But his robustness might be the most underrated element of his physical makeup. He looks really sturdy for a guy who's only 17 and a half. Broad shoulders, wide torso, thick and long limbs. Looks to have a really solid base.

We'll have to see how he physically develops but he may have the build and strength to play some occasional minutes as a small-ball center like Draymond. He grappled well with LeBron at times during the scrimmage. Knocked Jrue off balance several times.

[1987_Lakers]

Can wemby defend 1-5 at an elite level and switch onto any position

Wemby is a fantastic rim protector and will win multiple DPOY but Flagg has demonstrated defensive versatility and impact that we've never seen from a 17 year old

Wemby will always have more impact on the defensive end just because of his size and his elite rim protection.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Can wemby defend 1-5 at an elite level and switch onto any position

Wemby is a fantastic rim protector and will win multiple DPOY but Flagg has demonstrated defensive versatility and impact that we've never seen from a 17 year old
Wembanyama probably can't defend a pg as well as Jrue Holiday but he can basically defend anyone. He can give quicker players space and still block their shot. No one has ever had his combo of length and agility.

[Im Still Ballin]

Wemby will always have more impact on the defensive end just because of his size and his elite rim protection.

He should in theory but nothing is certain. Draymond's only 6'5.75" barefoot and he's one of the most impactful defenders ever. Victor's off to a good start. We'll see what happens.

[warriorfan]

Big wing is definitely what it looks like. Will have to wait to get those wingspan and standing reach measurements though. His arms are really long on film.

But his robustness might be the most underrated element of his physical makeup. He looks really sturdy for a guy who's only 17 and a half. Broad shoulders, wide torso, thick and long limbs. Looks to have a really solid base.

We'll have to see how he physically develops but he may have the build and strength to play some occasional minutes as a small-ball center like Draymond. He grappled well with LeBron at times during the scrimmage. Knocked Jrue off balance several times.

That is true, lots of guys at 17 are stick men build still. He’s going to be able to put on more weight lt and it will help him. Although he shouldn’t put too much on and sacrifice lateral quickness.

If he can be a big 3, play some 4, and some small ball 5 on occasions, that would be perfect for him in my opinion.

[Manny98]

Wemby will always have more impact on the defensive end just because of his size and his elite rim protection.
Not really Rudy Gobert destroys Draymond in size and Rim Protection but in the playoffs Green is more impactful defensively

Versatile guys like Draymond,Flagg,Gianni's translate better in the playoffs than rim protectors

[Im Still Ballin]

Not the best angle but I think Cooper's shoulder is a little higher than LeBron's. I think he's a little taller.

https://i.ibb.co/98NymT6/94iz4v.gif

[Real Men Wear Green]

Not really Rudy Gobert destroys Draymond in size and Rim Protection but in the playoffs Green is more impactful defensively

Versatile guys like Draymond,Flagg,Gianni's translate better in the playoffs than rim protectors
What you don't seem to realize is that Wembanyama is versatile. No one wants to be guarded by him regardless of their position. He can't be shot over and you might think you have him beat off the dribble but as soon as you release the ball he's sending it to the backboard or the front row.

[1987_Lakers]

We saw Wemby as a 20 year old in his first year in the league become the best defensive player in the league right away, and now we have people saying a 17 year old who doesn't even have the size of Wemby claiming he might surpass him defensively. :lol

[Manny98]

What you don't seem to realize is that Wembanyama is versatile. No one wants to be guarded by him regardless of their position. He can't be shot over and you might think you have him beat off the dribble but as soon as you release the ball he's sending it to the backboard or the front row.

Go tell that to Sengun :oldlol:


https://youtu.be/8ZfAgwnrzwc?si=mfExYbgs0tujsQAq

[Real Men Wear Green]

Go tell that to Sengun :oldlol:He wasn't the primary defender for most of those plays. Who in basketball history hasn't had a player on the opposing team have a big night?

[warriorfan]

Of course RMWG has to bring up Wemby for some reason and proceed to derail the thread while endlessly arguing about him.

What an incredible moderator. :oldlol:

[Manny98]

He wasn't the primary defender for most of those plays. Who in basketball history hasn't had a player on the opposing team have a big night?

Yes he was Sengun was abusing him in the post all night, he's a great defender but him being 7'4 180 pounds presents some flaws where he struggles against certain post scoring bigs who can bully his skinny frame

[Im Still Ballin]

Cole Aldrich is another guy, like Jokic, who has similar bodily proportions to Cooper regarding relative limb length, clavicle width, and potentially hand size. All three are wide-bodied and have a lower brachial index/longer humerus (upper arm) relative to the radius (lower arm).

Cole Aldrich:

- 6'9" barefoot height
- 7'4.75" wingspan
- 9'2.5" standing reach (adjusted for standardized 1.25" shoes)

1" to 2" smaller version of those measurements would be a great result.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Of course RMWG has to bring up Wemby for some reason and proceed to derail the thread while endlessly arguing about him.

What an incredible moderator. :oldlol:Would you like to see me improve this board?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Yes he was Sengun was abusing him in the post all night, he's a great defender but him being 7'4 180 pounds presents some flaws where he struggles against certain post scoring bigs who can bully his skinny frame
Watch the video you posted. Wembanyama is trying to help on a few plays but is not the primary defender well over half of those possessions.

[Neal Romer]

He should in theory but nothing is certain. Draymond's only 6'5.75" barefoot and he's one of the most impactful defenders ever. Victor's off to a good start. We'll see what happens.

Yeah Draymond has a very good build for defense. Low base with super long arms. Cant get bullied off a spot but can still contest effectively.

I agree Flagg has impressive thiccness for a kid that's 6'8 at 17 years old. But it's not a Draymond center of gravity. And he doesnt have Bam's reach, let alone guys like Yama and Porzingis and Chet. So he's kind of in between.

As others have said, he probably aligns more as a chasedown/help protector, a la Pippen or Kirilenko, rather than a paint-stationed defensive 5. I dont see him being used on defense the way Anthony Davis is.

Often times people assume a high school prospect has tons of room to grow, literally and figuratively. Which is sometimes true. But sometimes they just peak earlier and stay there. Flagg is physically about what Jason Tatum is currently. Which is why Flagg's a more dominant high school player, cuz hes already built like an NBA player.

But that doesnt mean he's necessarily gonna keep progressing until hes the second coming of Wilt. He might just remain at a Jason Tatum level. A quality wing defender in the NBA, but not a Dikembe Mutombo rejection machine.

Cant know until he gets there. But to me he looks like his floor is proportionally a lot higher than his ceiling.

[Manny98]

Watch the video you posted. Wembanyama is trying to help on a few plays but is not the primary defender well over half of those possessions.

I watched Sengun manhandle Wemby like he was a little boy on multiple possessions :oldlol:

[warriorfan]

Would you like to see me improve this board?

Go shove a teriyaki stick up your asshole, fat boy.

[Im Still Ballin]

Shawn James:

- 6'7.75" barefoot height
- 7'5" wingspan
- 9'3" standing reach
- 217 pounds

About as impressive measurements as it gets for a guy Cooper's height range.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Go shove a teriyaki stick up your asshole, fat boy.
This request was a bit odd but I honored the first.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I watched Sengun manhandle Wemby like he was a little boy on multiple possessions :oldlol:He scored some buckets but most of it wasn't with Wemby as the main guy. And basically none of it was him muscling Wemby out of the way.

[90sgoat]

Take a look at 6'10'' Clifford Robinson, playing SF but also PF and event C.

I think Coop is much better on defense, but that kind of long athletic, but yet sturdy, big wing is a good comparison imo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUVw7E2LSWw

[Im Still Ballin]

Cooper with Sean Stewart, who like Flagg at Duke, is listed at 6'9" and was listed at 6'8" at times in high school. They look more or less the same height when you account for the hair and distance from the camera. Cooper's shoulders are higher but that's also because Sean has a longer neck.

Cooper's stance continues to be wider compared to others. He has that wide body; he reminds me a little of LeBron in that regard.

https://www.zagsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Cooper.jpg

[Carbine]

In all my time as a fan I've never seen so much discussion about someone's shoulder height and defense for a kid who hasn't played a single game of college basketball to my knowledge.

Anyone thinking this guy is the white KG is like people saying Chet is KD with better defense. Shit needs to calm down, this guy could be a defensive zero for all anyone knows. You know how many guys in NBA history have had his build and athletic ability and were not anything worth noting on defense? A hell of a lot.

This isn't some unicorn 7'5 guy with agility like Wemby where the potential is obvious because it's a unique build of a player. Flagg blends in with basically any big SF/PF in NBA terms.

[Carbine]

In all my time as a fan I've never seen so much discussion about someone's shoulder height and defense for a kid who hasn't played a single game of college basketball to my knowledge.

Anyone thinking this guy is the white KG is like people saying Chet is KD with better defense. Shit needs to calm down, this guy could be a defensive zero for all anyone knows. You know how many guys in NBA history have had his build and athletic ability and were not anything worth noting on defense? A hell of a lot.

This isn't some unicorn 7'5 guy with agility like Wemby where the potential is obvious because it's a unique build of a player. Flagg blends in with basically any big SF/PF in NBA terms.

[Im Still Ballin]

I tried to read your post but that run-on sentence killed it for me. Learn to use periods to improve your syntax. It'll help you get whatever point you're attempting to make across.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.png

[Real Cavs Fan]

I tried to read your post but that run-on sentence killed it for me. Learn to use periods to improve your syntax. It'll help you get whatever point you're attempting to make across.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.png

:lol

[90sgoat]

Lebron is 6'8.5'' ish and Coop looks a bit taller. Also he looks same height as Bam.

I'd probably start him at PF.

[ralph_i_el]

In all my time as a fan I've never seen so much discussion about someone's shoulder height and defense for a kid who hasn't played a single game of college basketball to my knowledge.

Anyone thinking this guy is the white KG is like people saying Chet is KD with better defense. Shit needs to calm down, this guy could be a defensive zero for all anyone knows. You know how many guys in NBA history have had his build and athletic ability and were not anything worth noting on defense? A hell of a lot.

This isn't some unicorn 7'5 guy with agility like Wemby where the potential is obvious because it's a unique build of a player. Flagg blends in with basically any big SF/PF in NBA terms.

Nah, if you watch him the defense is something else. I don't think there's a possibility that he isn't a big impact player on that end (barring career-impacting injuries).

[Manny98]

Free Warriorfan!

[DJMcDonald]

Free Warriorfan!

This. /Thread.

[Axe]

This request was a bit odd but I honored the first.
:milton

[Manny98]

https://youtu.be/CVgVTqC_3Bw?si=17rzngkvh3RC-Emq

[Manny98]

https://youtu.be/iPQHgjVvVD8?si=VXLr2f8Ls27Y8-x9

[Im Still Ballin]

Duke played an exhibition game against a D2 team. Here's the box score: https://goduke.com/sidearmstats/mbball/individual;team=home

Cooper played well: 22/2/6 with 4 blocks, 8-16 FG shooting 2-5 from three, 4-7 on FTs, in 24 minutes. There is not much to take away from this as Lincoln is ass. Still, it's nice to see him out there for Duke.

I was impressed by his length when dunking. It looks like he barely has to jump to dunk the ball. Check out the GIFs below. I'm a believer in his size and athleticism for the PF position.

https://i.ibb.co/YBVxLb6/97auwq.gif
https://i.ibb.co/8N7qPxR/97audf.gif
https://i.ibb.co/4Wg5Cn2/97av7n.gif
https://i.ibb.co/tQKWB1N/97avc6.gif


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdKxLaDL_JA

[Im Still Ballin]

https://i.ibb.co/4f1Tjpy/n-ZK7j-Rq-d.webp

[Im Still Ballin]

Better highlights; includes blocks:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYqcSnHgDdw

[90sgoat]

F*cking hell.

I'm calling it, we're looking at a general talent in Cooper Flagg. He's going to be a superstar from day 1.

A more mobile Franz Wagner on offense and a Kirilenko type on defense.

This kid is going to be an absolute star. America finally got their white superstar.

[Neal Romer]

Better highlights; includes blocks:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYqcSnHgDdw


In terms of his build, his maturity, his fame, the guy he reminds me of most coming out if high school is actually Lebron.

But I dont think hes as much of a natural point forward as Lebron. Hes more of a true forward. One guy he kinda reminds me of so far... Shawn Kemp. Aggressive, explosive, powerful. Whether he can maintain that style in the NBA is to be determined, but among his current peers, he looks unstoppable near the rim.

[90sgoat]

In terms of his build, his maturity, his fame, the guy he reminds me of most coming out if high school is actually Lebron.

But I dont think hes as much of a natural point forward as Lebron. Hes more of a true forward. One guy he kinda reminds me of so far... Shawn Kemp. Aggressive, explosive, powerful. Whether he can maintain that style in the NBA is to be determined, but among his current peers, he looks unstoppable near the rim.

Shawn Kemp is interesting, but I think he's more of a true wing, with the athleticism and wingspan of a power forward. It's a very unique combination. He has the height and coordination of a wing, but his shoulders and wingspan are absolutely massive. It allows him to move his feet like a wing, but jump and defend like a big man. He's pretty much the ultimate small ball player.

[Manny98]

Better highlights; includes blocks:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYqcSnHgDdw

Put on a show as expected

[3ba11]

Knecht is far superior

[Im Still Ballin]

Long way to go fellas. Cooper is a high-floor prospect so he should be a productive rotation player at worst. His bust potential is lower than most. His upside is an interesting discussion. IMO, Flagg's offense is being underrated because his defense is such a focal point.

[eliteballer]

Copying my threads on RGM again?

[90sgoat]

People don't get that Cooper Flagg has the perfect package for the modern NBA.

Unlike Wemby who is limited in that height also has drawbacks, Cooper is simply long, with a wingspan of a much taller player, but the torso and legs of a normal wing. This means Cooper can move like a wing, but defend like a big. He also has massive shoulders which will help with rebounding.

Cooper has the same qualities that made KG, AD stars. He'll be the ultimate switcher on defense, the ultimate help defender. He'll run the floor like Giannis and KG, dominate smaller opponents like AD.

[Manny98]

Mark the 5th of November on your Calenders when the future GOAT makes his official college debut :pimp:

[Meticode]

Kind of crazy that NBADraft.net gave Flagg a higher potential score now than they did Wemby two years ago. 102 vs 101. The biggest dock on Wemby was his strength. Which is understandable.

[Manny98]

Kind of crazy that NBADraft.net gave Flagg a higher potential score now than they did Wemby two years ago. 102 vs 101. The biggest dock on Wemby was his strength. Which is understandable.

Wow I didn't know that, so Flagg has the highest score of any prospect ever?

I know Zion got 100 score

[ShawkFactory]

Knecht is far superior

Missed this one :lol

[Meticode]

Wow I didn't know that, so Flagg has the highest score of any prospect ever?

I know Zion got 100 score

I don't know. I randomly looked up Flagg last night because I don't know much about him. I don't follow prospects much. Then I got curious and wondered what they scored Wemby and was surprised Wemby was 1 point lower.

Edit: I looked up other players they scored. And kind of laughed...

Blake Griffin, 2009, 105
John Wall, 2010, 103

:oldlol:

[Im Still Ballin]

Cooper's wingspan referred to as 7'1" in this recent Sports Illustrated article:

https://www.si.com/nba/draft/newsfeed/2025-nba-draft-breaking-down-cooper-flagg-skills


Flagg is a 6-foot-9 forward who has a 7-foot-1 wingspan and weighs 205 pounds. He has great positional size and physical tools which will allow him to comfortably play up and down the lineup. Not only does he have those great physical tools, but he also is an elite athlete and is arguably a top-five athlete in this year’s draft. When it comes to measurables and athletic testing, Flagg absolutely dominates there and it will show at the NBA Draft Combine.

That number seems more believable than the 6'11.75" from the J Kyle Mann video.

[Im Still Ballin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsN3ih9_yH4

[ralph_i_el]

I don't know. I randomly looked up Flagg last night because I don't know much about him. I don't follow prospects much. Then I got curious and wondered what they scored Wemby and was surprised Wemby was 1 point lower.

Edit: I looked up other players they scored. And kind of laughed...

Blake Griffin, 2009, 105
John Wall, 2010, 103

:oldlol:

What's funny about that? Both those dudes were all-nba and derailed by injuries. Both had borderline MVP candidate peaks.

[Neal Romer]

What's funny about that? Both those dudes were all-nba and derailed by injuries. Both had borderline MVP candidate peaks.

Griffin and Wall were built for the regular season. No game planning and faster pace.

Wall wasnt really a savvy enough floor general for the playoffs and Griffin's short wingspan gave him problems when the game slowed down. They might have been "All NBA" but like Tatum they werent among the actual best players.

Im not saying they were scrubs or anything, just that I dont think injuries limited their accomplishments, mainly just their longevity.

[999Guy]

Griffin and Wall were built for the regular season. No game planning and faster pace.

Wall wasnt really a savvy enough floor general for the playoffs and Griffin's short wingspan gave him problems when the game slowed down. They might have been "All NBA" but like Tatum they werent among the actual best players.

Im not saying they were scrubs or anything, just that I dont think injuries limited their accomplishments, mainly just their longevity.

I’ll say this, 2017 John Wall was better in the playoffs than Tatum ever was.

Griffin is a weird one. And also better than Tatum but never as good as his numbers. Not even in 2015. But solid defender.

Griffin was anchoring the 2021 Nets D and containing Giannis with no help D. He was gonna Draymond his way to a championship. Griffin was no dummy, he wasn’t a gimmick guy and and he was no loser. He proved that.

And he really did break down physically and rapidly at that.

I don’t think either one reached their ceiling. Wall had knee issues even in his best years.

[Im Still Ballin]

First slam dunk for Duke:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KuoQDAtugQ

[Im Still Ballin]

I like the passing and back-to-the-basket stuff. Cooper has a strong frame with a sturdy base, has great balance, absorbs contact very well, plays physically, and covers a lot of ground pivoting with his long strides. His strength and post potential are two areas in which he differs from Kirilenko.

Luka, Randle, and Brunson are three current examples of primary shot creators who use a back-down game to get into the teeth of the defense and collapse it. Flagg may not have a crazy burst off the dribble, but he seems to have the right ingredients for the back-down game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IGpkiqKuWA&pp=ygUMY29vcGVyIGZsYWdn

[Manny98]

Flagg looked better than I expected last night, he's well and truly a generational talent, :bowdown:

[Real Men Wear Green]

Flagg looked better than I expected last night, he's well and truly a generational talent, :bowdown:

I'm sure Utah will appreciate him.

[Manny98]

I'm sure Utah will appreciate him.

Yeah he's not going to Utah :oldlol:

[BurningHammer]

Can't wait for Cooper to wear a Raptors uniform and play for us.

[Manny98]

Can't wait for Cooper to wear a Raptors uniform and play for us.
Not ideal but if he gets drafted to Toronto I will have to start rooting for them

[ShawkFactory]

Watched most of the second half. His shooting/finishing left a little to be desired, but a part of that could have been being so amped up for the first game. However, his feet/hands/awareness on defense are absolutely incredible for someone so young. As are his instincts overall on offense.

[Manny98]

Watched most of the second half. His shooting/finishing left a little to be desired, but a part of that could have been being so amped up for the first game. However, his feet/hands/awareness on defense are absolutely incredible for someone so young. As are his instincts overall on offense.

The mechanics are there I definitely think he can be a nice 37% from 3 point and it was quite clear he was a step above everybody else on the floor

[Real Men Wear Green]

Yeah he's not going to Utah :oldlol:
Why wouldn't he? Their record is terrible and it will remain terrible. Ainge put their assets on fire sale for years to accumulate talent and it's going to work. The only thing that could work against him is some bad luck in the lottery. You know who's not going to get him? Any team that is honestly trying to win. I actually respect Brooklyn for fighting for respectability but that .500 glory will mean they don't draft Flagg. Already gave Ainge a lead in those ping pong balls. Looks like he's going to take away your young franchise player again.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Can't wait for Cooper to wear a Raptors uniform and play for us.
Possible. They're in the mix with Utah.

[Manny98]

Why wouldn't he? Their record is terrible and it will remain terrible. Ainge put their assets on fire sale for years to accumulate talent and it's going to work. The only thing that could work against him is some bad luck in the lottery. You know who's not going to get him? Any team that is honestly trying to win. I actually respect Brooklyn for fighting for respectability but that .500 glory will mean they don't draft Flagg. Already gave Ainge a lead in those ping pong balls. Looks like he's going to take away your young franchise player again.
Silver wouldn't let the next generational talent rot in ****ing Utah of all places I don't see it :oldlol:

[Real Men Wear Green]

Silver wouldn't let the next generational talent rot in ****ing Utah of all places I don't see it :oldlol:
They "let" LeBron James go to Cleveland.

[Carbine]

Lebron was a hometown hero.

Is Flagg from Utah?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Lebron was a hometown hero.

Is Flagg from Utah?
If the concern is having superstar in big city you don't concern yourself with having the guy from Akron go to Cleveland.

[Im Still Ballin]

I really liked this mid-post face-up move:

https://i.ibb.co/JqcxN4g/997px0.gif

He has good bully-ball potential with what he's working with. This reminded me of the type of moves AD makes now that he's quite strong, 260+ pounds, and plays physically. The young Davis lacked the strength.

[Im Still Ballin]

Cooper has a long stride. Similar in absolute/relative leg length to Ingram I'd say. They've got similar bodies aside from Cooper being way thicker/wider/more robust. Took two dribbles from half-court before dunking. He really covers a lot of ground per dribble in the open court.

https://i.ibb.co/RQY5xkJ/997vcf.gif

[DJMcDonald]

Not ideal but if he gets drafted to Toronto I will have to start rooting for them

Not surprising, would be like the 5th time you swapped which team you support

[tontoz]

Duke plays UK next Tuesday on ESPN. That will be the first time I have watched Cooper in a game.

I am also interested in Duke's center Maluach.

[Manny98]

Not surprising, would be like the 5th time you swapped which team you support
Find a post of me being a fan of a team outside the Nets

Oh wait you can't because you're chatting shit

[Im Still Ballin]

He's putting on a good performance ATM.

[ShawkFactory]

The AK47 comps look very very real. He could be him right now. The room to grow offensively, particularly with the post and passing game is exciting but at worst you have one of the more overall impactful guys around, if not spectacular.

Interested to see what he does against Kentucky.

[Im Still Ballin]

Jonathan Givony
@DraftExpress
Cooper Flagg filled up the boxscore in Duke's blowout win over Army. 13 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 blocks, 2 steals and 2/4 3P in 25 minutes for the projected No. 1 pick.

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1855053869685846147


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzjfyt_QZWE&ab_channel=ACCDigitalNetwork

[Jasper]

6ers or the Bucks

[Im Still Ballin]

Duke vs. Kentucky tonight. Wonder if Flagg will cramp up again?

[tontoz]

Some nice moves off the dribble early on.

[Im Still Ballin]

Coop with the choke.

[Neal Romer]

Coop with the choke.


Karma for all the flexing and mugging he does after every damn play.

I dont mind when guys do that on occasion after a legitimately big moment. But for gods sake it's every damn made basket now that guys are scowling and ice grillin at the camera and beating their chest.

It's like dude, your basket just made the score 27-22. We're in the first quarter. Maybe keep a little bit more of an even keel at this stage of the game, hm?

[Im Still Ballin]

Karma for all the flexing and mugging he does after every damn play.

I dont mind when guys do that on occasion after a legitimately big moment. But for gods sake it's every damn made basket now that guys are scowling and ice grillin at the camera and beating their chest.

It's like dude, your basket just made the score 27-22. We're in the first quarter. Maybe keep a little bit more of an even keel at this stage of the game, hm?

Agreed. Act like you've been there before!

[Im Still Ballin]

He otherwise looked good. Quicker off the dribble than I thought he was. Was getting toward the rim in the half-court well. Most impressive to me was his strength, balance, and ability to absorb contact. Went through guys on offense and stonewalled guys in the post and lowering the shoulder driving to the hoop on defense.

He has legitimate upside defending the post against bigger players. That's one aspect where he differs somewhat from Kirilenko. He could be Draymond/Rodman-like in that regard. That gives him another layer of defensive versatility. Small ball 5. Switching onto centers and bigger PFs.

[Im Still Ballin]

- Post defense on 6'11", 235-pound center Andrew Carr [8:58 to 9:10]
- Absorbs a heavy lowered shoulder on a dribble-drive [8:13 to 8:20]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7aFRDqt5MY&ab_channel=Cashiggy

[ShawkFactory]

He otherwise looked good. Quicker off the dribble than I thought he was. Was getting toward the rim in the half-court well. Most impressive to me was his strength, balance, and ability to absorb contact. Went through guys on offense and stonewalled guys in the post and lowering the shoulder driving to the hoop on defense.

He has legitimate upside defending the post against bigger players. That's one aspect where he differs somewhat from Kirilenko. He could be Draymond/Rodman-like in that regard. That gives him another layer of defensive versatility. Small ball 5. Switching onto centers and bigger PFs.

Looked extremely clutch before those last 2 drives too. I guess that does show a slight weakness: his handle. Needs to shore that up before he looks to be the go-to ISO guy at the end of games. Particularly on the spin move. His footwork is really good but doesn't have the handle to match. Seemed to lose it a couple times spinning.

But yea his strength in the post was very surprising. That combined with his instantaneous switching and awareness leads me to believe that he's going to be an absolutely elite defensive player. Hell..he already is.

[Manny98]

God i really hope my Nets start losing games

I'm salivating at the thought of Flagg in a Nets jersey

[tontoz]

God i really hope my Nets start losing games



:roll:

Make up your mind, bro.

It isn't just Flagg. Granted he seems to be the clear number 1 but it looks like there are several guys in this draft which would have gone number 1 easily in the last draft.

[Im Still Ballin]

Cooper's college averages look relatively similar to his senior year at Montverde four games in:

- 16.3 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 4.0 apg, 2.0 spg, 1.8 bpg, 2.5 topg
- 44.2% FG, 22.2% 3PT, 55.9% 2PT, 48.1% eFG, 78.9% FT, 53.3% TS
- +12.9 BPM (+4.8 OBPM; +8.1 DBPM)

He's leading the team in all five of the major counting stats. It's just his three-point shooting letting him down so far. Adjust it to 39% 3PT and his scoring goes up to 18.6 ppg and 61.5% TS.

I've been impressed with the defensive rebounding. Flagg is giving me Shawn Marion/Gerald Wallace vibes as a strong rebounder relative to his position. Marion was getting 8-11 rebounds in his prime regardless of whether he was the SF or PF. It's that quick two-footed leaping and strong length/reach; those qualities also make for strong finishing in the paint.

[ralph_i_el]

I've been impressed with the defensive rebounding. Flagg is giving me Shawn Marion/Gerald Wallace vibes as a strong rebounder relative to his position. Marion was getting 8-11 rebounds in his prime regardless of whether he was the SF or PF. It's that quick two-footed leaping and strong length/reach; those qualities also make for strong finishing in the paint.

Absolutely this. I could see him hitting 20ppg in his prime, ala Ron Artest, but he's not polished enough with his handle/off-dribble game to be a lead scorer. Both of the guys you mention have a couple of NBA 1st team type years when you look at impact stats like adjusted On/Off. The problem is that type of player has to play hard and athletic to make their impact...how long can they do that? Gerald Wallace was making a huge impact, but hurting himself and others. Injuries started getting to Marion in his prime too.

[Im Still Ballin]

Absolutely this. I could see him hitting 20ppg in his prime, ala Ron Artest, but he's not polished enough with his handle/off-dribble game to be a lead scorer. Both of the guys you mention have a couple of NBA 1st team type years when you look at impact stats like adjusted On/Off. The problem is that type of player has to play hard and athletic to make their impact...how long can they do that? Gerald Wallace was making a huge impact, but hurting himself and others. Injuries started getting to Marion in his prime too.

Facts. The upside hinges on the ball handling and shooting.

[tontoz]

I think his handle is fine, especially for his age. Problem is that in college the lane is congested so he doesn't have a lot of space to operate.

[Manny98]

Big game matchup tonight vs Arizona

[Im Still Ballin]

Game starts soon.

[Im Still Ballin]

He got it done this time.

:applause:

[Manny98]

Put on a clinic against a top team in Arizona

Dominated on both sides of the ball, looking like a Caucasian Kevin Garnett out there :bowdown:

[Manny98]

My Nets just lost again :rockon:

I see us being a bottom 3 team alongside Washington and Utah which gives us a 14% chance of the number 1 pick

https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExeTI3ZThvbDE3OG90YTgzdWFnbTVrZnV hdGZsbjhxcnF1aG85NjVvcCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/3ohhwkKBzcVk4PV5ao/giphy.gif

[3ba11]

Let's take Brandon Ingram and make him worse in every way = Cooper Flagg

[ShawkFactory]

Let's take Brandon Ingram and make him worse in every way = Cooper Flagg

Lol what? Other than being the same height, they have almost no similarities as players.

[ShawkFactory]

Put on a clinic against a top team in Arizona

Dominated on both sides of the ball, looking like a Caucasian Kevin Garnett out there :bowdown:

He plays more like a smaller AD to me than KG.

The defensive, and overall, instincts for a 17 year old is pretty special.

[tontoz]

Good 2nd half after a slow start. Struggled to finish after contact which is typical at 17. Good activity on defense.

As usual 3ball is clueless :lol

[3ba11]

Lol what? Other than being the same height,

they have almost no similarities as players.





It only seems that way because Ingram does everything a lot better.

Ingram's handle is far superior.. He's quicker... he's more athletic and better shooter... Better playmaker too... Simply a better talent and I remember him tracking very high when he was at Kentucky - he was considered a prodigal talent and almost a 2nd coming of AD...

Otoh, Flagg is mostly hype - he can't beat defenders via blow-by and needs too many counters.. Unless his jumper is infact Larry Bird, feel free to bookmark this post... I wish you guys would've bookmarked all my posts about ingram, Cade, Wemby and others.. Sure I was wrong about curry, but that's why I consider him to be so great.. Btw, you guys were all wrong about Ingram, but you don't remember this.. Btw, Flagg has baby hands, while Bird had big-man hands, so I doubt their jumpers are similar..
.

[3ba11]

Good 2nd half after a slow start. Struggled to finish after contact which is typical at 17. Good activity on defense.

As usual 3ball is clueless :lol


you guys were all wrong about Ingram in 2019 - I was the only one that thought he was an all-star talent when he was playing alongside Lebron, while you guys thought he wasn't enough help and thought Kuzma was better.

[ShawkFactory]

It only seems that way because Ingram does everything a lot better.

Ingram's handle is far superior.. He's quicker... he's more athletic and better shooter... Better playmaker too... Simply a better talent and I remember him tracking very high when he was at Kentucky - he was considered a prodigal talent and almost a 2nd coming of AD...

Otoh, Flagg is mostly hype - he can't beat defenders via blow-by and needs too many counters.. Unless his jumper is infact Larry Bird, feel free to bookmark this post... I wish you guys would've bookmarked all my posts about ingram, Cade, Wemby and others.. Sure I was wrong about curry, but that's why I consider him to be so great.. Btw, you guys were all wrong about Ingram, but you don't remember this.

Good memory :lol

[3ba11]

Good memory :lol


When you focus on typos, you miss the substance..

Ingram was considered a 2nd-coming of AD and does everything MUCH better than Flagg - you'll see - it will be just another thing you're wrong about - you guys never make great predictions like I did with Wemby, Ant, Ingram, Cade, and more

you don't think it's interesting that you're claiming Flagg doesn't play like Ingram when Ingram is someone you guys were dead wrong about and didn't understand his game at all? (and don't understand anyone's game, like Lebron's for example)... carry on

[ShawkFactory]

When you focus on typos, you miss the substance..

Ingram was considered a 2nd-coming of AD and does everything MUCH better than Flagg - you'll see - it will be just another thing you're wrong about - you guys never make great predictions like I did with Wemby, Ant, Ingram, Cade, and more

You don’t even remember where he went to school. How we supposed to believe that you remember anything about him as a player coming out :lol

[3ba11]

You don’t even remember where he went to school. How we supposed to believe that you remember anything about him as a player coming out :lol


I know his game, while you don't and were wrong about him

But congrats on knowing where he went to school

[ShawkFactory]

I know his game, while you don't and were wrong about him

But congrats on knowing where he went to school

College basketball is one of my favorite sports and I make it a point in particular to watch most games of top prospects, i.e Brandon Ingram.

In college, I remember him being a tall, lanky great-shooting wing with a smooth handle and solid passing skills. He was a huge question mark defensively though and didn't have much of a motor overall. Still hasn't figured those parts out.

He played nothing like Cooper Flagg...and certainly not like AD.

[3ba11]

College basketball is one of my favorite sports and I make it a point in particular to watch most games of top prospects, i.e Brandon Ingram.

In college, I remember him being a tall, lanky great-shooting wing with a smooth handle and solid passing skills. He was a huge question mark defensively though and didn't have much of a motor overall. Still hasn't figured those parts out.

He played nothing like Cooper Flagg...and certainly not like AD.


You were wrong about Ingram in 2019 and didn't think he would be good, yet now you're lying saying you thought he was good and understand his game?

People in 2024 have such low character and social media did it - no one can concede and the worst thing is that people like you don't do your research and make me teach you everything.

Ingram and Flagg have the same objective, game and moves once they catch the ball, except Ingram is just more talented and skilled in literally every way - he's a better shooter, dribbler, playmaker, athlete, dunker - literally everything.. The stuff that Cooper finishes with a layup, Ingram is tomahawking with 2 hands and making it look easy - Flagg ain't got it like that.. I don't think he will be as good as Gordon Hayward and he projects to be a little better than Chandler Parsons...

[ShawkFactory]

So you’d expect Brandon Ingram the be the number one pick in this draft?

He played more like Ace Bailey than Flagg.

[3ba11]

So you’d expect Brandon Ingram the be the number one pick in this draft?

He played more like Ace Bailey than Flagg.


Ingram was just scraping his athletic potential and had so much more upside than Flagg - he wouldn't need to be #1 to be a better player in the short or long-run than Flagg or other guys in this draft...

Flagg is slow and his numbers reflect a complete and mature bag, while Ingram was a more talented athlete and his numbers reflected a budding bag...

Flagg can't blow by guys, which is an issue since his jumper doesn't smack of Bird or Dirk.. Flagg is working harder out there than Ingram and I already see instances where he's forced to lay it up (but it was a dunk in HS) - Ingram was still dunking everything in college that he dunked in HS (and pretty much in the league too)...

[ShawkFactory]

Yes, Flagg does work harder. On both ends. Ingram still doesn’t work hard. He literally hasn’t changed or improved as a player in like 7 years.

I can’t decide what’s funnier about this conversation though.

1. That we wouldn’t be having it if Ingram didn’t play 40 something games with Lebron 6 years ago or..

2. That Cade Cunningham is outperforming him in pretty much every number and metric there is :lol

[3ba11]

Yes, Flagg does work harder. On both ends. Ingram still doesn’t work hard. He literally hasn’t changed or improved as a player in like 7 years.

I can’t decide what’s funnier about this conversation though.

1. That we wouldn’t be having it if Ingram didn’t play 40 something games with Lebron 6 years ago or..

2. That Cade Cunningham is outperforming him in pretty much every number and metric there is :lol


We're talking about Ingram because he compares to Cooper Flagg, except he's a more athletic, better ball-handling, better jumpshooting, and better bag... better skills and athleticism.

And a 16-game sample compared to their entire careers thus far (Ingram vs Cade)?.... nice try

[3ba11]

Btw Shawk, when you start alluding to the defensive end of the floor, that normally means that I'm winning the offensive side of the argument... It's like a when someone says "I'm good at defense", it means "I can't score"

[ShawkFactory]

Btw Shawk, when you start alluding to the defensive end of the floor, that normally means that I'm winning the offensive side of the argument... It's like a when someone says "I'm good at defense", it means "I can't score"

No it doesn’t. It means I’m trying to have a discussion about the entire package of a player.

Cooper will end up scoring more than Ingram did as a freshman, given his motor, transition and tempo pushing, and overall aggressiveness.

And he’s perhaps the best defensive freshman I’ve seen since Anthony Davis. AD wasn’t a prodigy because of his offensive game.

[ShawkFactory]

We're talking about Ingram because he compares to Cooper Flagg, except he's a more athletic, better ball-handling, better jumpshooting, and better bag... better skills and athleticism.

And a 16-game sample compared to their entire careers thus far (Ingram vs Cade)?.... nice try

Sure thing buddy :lol

[tontoz]

Ingram is a soft jump shooter that is reluctant to attack the rim. Flagg is a legit defensive big who is constantly looking to drive 1st and shoot jumpers 2nd. Not remotely comparable.

Flagg will never play the 3 in his entire career. He will play center at times in small lineups.

[3ba11]

Sure thing buddy :lol


that's what you said in 2019.. I was right then and I'm right now as usual, and you're in denial and deflect mode as usual.. carry on

[3ba11]

Ingram is a soft jump shooter that is reluctant to attack the rim. Flagg is a legit defensive big who is constantly looking to drive 1st and shoot jumpers 2nd. Not remotely comparable.

Flagg will never play the 3 in his entire career. He will play center at times in small lineups.


Sounds like you're trying to compensate for his lack of quickness by saying he's a big... The problem is that all his buckets are guard or wing-like with him dribbling facing the basket, or jumpers (and not turnarounds)... At no point have I seen him operate and help himself like a big.. You guys don't know what you're talking about

Defensively, he might be good and so was Jud Buechler and Ed Najera

[tontoz]

Sounds like you're trying to compensate for his lack of quickness by saying he's a big... The problem is that all his buckets are guard or wing-like with him dribbling facing the basket, or jumpers (and not turnarounds)... At no point have I seen him operate and help himself like a big.. You guys don't know what you're talking about

Defensively, he might be good and so was Jud Buechler and Ed Najera

Flagg is leading the team in rebounds at 8.8 per game. Next closest is their center at 6.2. he also leads the team in blocks. Given the fact that he is only 17 I think that is a good indicator that his future is at the 4/5.

[ShawkFactory]

that's what you said in 2019.. I was right then and I'm right now as usual, and you're in denial and deflect mode as usual.. carry on

I don’t think I said anything about Ingram in 2019. But you’re right about what..? That he would become an above average scorer and low impact guy overall? Cool..

That he’d make one all star team and then become an obsolete guy on a bad team? Sick prediction bro.

[Im Still Ballin]

Ingram and Flagg are similar in terms of height, arm span, leg length, and vertical reach. Cooper is way more sturdily built; his frame/bone structure is just thicker and he plays way more physically than Brandon ever has or ever will.

Flagg doesn't need to blow by guys. He's got all the ingredients for a potent bully-ball/backdown game, like Brunson, Luka, LeBron, Randle, Siakam, etc. It's a viable primary shot creation method. Gets into the teeth of the paint to collapse the defense and create open opportunities for teammates.

[ralph_i_el]

Flagg is more like Jalen Brown in college than Brandon Ingram imo. Perimeter skills a bit underpolished, playing as a face-up 4.

Flagg is going to get bigger/slower defenders on him than Ingram, because he's a strength mismatch on more guys. Against Arizona they tried a smaller guy on him, and he bullied them. Then a bigger guy, and he out quicked them. It's a bit like a young LeBron's mismatch....quicker than anyone his strength/size and stronger than anyone as quick as him.

[Manny98]

Flagg and Ingram, what a weird comparison they're nothing alike :oldlol:

[Manny98]

Big test for Coop tonight against an Auburn team who I believe are the best team in the country

[tontoz]

Big test for Coop tonight against an Auburn team who I believe are the best team in the country

Yeah recording that one. I have some concerns about Cooper on offense. His shot hasn't been good but i am more concerned with his handles. He's had a lot of ball handling turnovers, some of which seemed really unforced.

Defensively he has been as good as advertised.

[Manny98]

Dukes defense is insane, Flagg is tasked with leading the offense and being the defensive anchor

So far I don't see him as a number one offensive option type of guy

[Im Still Ballin]

Cooper is a really good rebounder for his size. Shawn Marion vibes.

[Neal Romer]

Dukes defense is insane, Flagg is tasked with leading the offense and being the defensive anchor

So far I don't see him as a number one offensive option type of guy


Thats what Ive been saying. He grew into his man-body earlier than all his peers so hes able to dominate at the younger levels. But hes not a 'skill set savant' like a 17 y/o Lebron or Luka. Once he goes up against more physically mature competition he loses his dominant edge.

But he is only 17. He'll get more polished. He can become something along the lines of an Aaron Gordon, Franz Wagner type at the very least. Best case scenario is probably Giannis, who was skinnier and less skilled than Flag at the same age. If Flagg lives in the gym and takes advantage of all the bulldozing and traveling the NBA lets stars get away with, I guess theres no reason he couldnt eventually do what Giannis does, IF theyre comparable in terms of standing reach, which is what really measures a guy's practical basketball length and what makes G so dominant. His length lets him get the ball so close to the basket on so many of his drives that he cant miss or get blocked.

It's a shame basketball measurements are so needlessly flimsy and unreliable, they make these comparisons very difficult.

[Im Still Ballin]

Came up big tonight. 17 y/o freshman going at it with the 5th-year senior NPOY favorite. Just needs to keep working on that shot.

[ShawkFactory]

Came up big tonight. 17 y/o freshman going at it with the 5th-year senior NPOY favorite. Just needs to keep working on that shot.

Very impressive :applause:

Broome has treated everyone like children this year and Cooper was the grown-ass man on the court last night. His shot is still wonky, and was particularly off in the first half, but he was the best player.

He's nuts defensively and bullied and team in the paint that is used to bullying people.

[tontoz]

Cooper's TS last night was 47% which is his season average. That is a bit discouraging for a guy that can get a lot of easy baskets bullying smaller players. At least he didnt turn it over.

[90sgoat]

Coop will be an all-star within the first 3 seasons. Book it!

[Im Still Ballin]

Coop covers a ridiculous amount of ground per dribble. Look at the clip at 1:15 below:

https://twitter.com/Frankie_Vision/status/1864533690375680039

https://i.ibb.co/gTVQbJt/9cspas.gif

[Im Still Ballin]

Coop has a lot of potential for a Siakam-esque post-up game. He's got all the qualities to do it:

- Strong, wide-bodied frame with a sturdy base
- Great reach and span
- Long strides and good footwork
- Absorbs contact well + seeks contact
- Elite two-footed jumper
- Good shooting touch 15ft and in
- Hard-to-block high release on jump shot

I'd like to see him work from the mid-post more when they go to him for an iso instead of trying to take guys off the dribble from the three-point line. Especially in the clutch. The main benefit would be turnover reduction.

His perimeter/SF/off-the-dribble game needs work but he looks like he's suited to a PF style of offense. Playing from the elbow/mid-post where everything is one dribble to the rim. Think KG, Bosh, Amar'e, Webber, BooZer, etc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKH7DNGAcbI

[StrongLurk]

I don't see him ever becoming an elite first option in the NBA, and that's fine.

He could be a solid 3rd guy on a playoff team with legit two way impact. Maybe make a couple of all star games.

[StrongLurk]

Let's take Brandon Ingram and make him worse in every way = Cooper Flagg

:roll:

[90sgoat]

Coop covers a ridiculous amount of ground per dribble. Look at the clip at 1:15 below:

https://twitter.com/Frankie_Vision/status/1864533690375680039

https://i.ibb.co/gTVQbJt/9cspas.gif

He's extremely coordinated for his size and strength.

[bizil]

I'm thinking a mix of Tatum and AK 47 is kind of apt. If he keeps growing and is more 6'10 to 6'11ish, then you could get into a mix of guys like Nance, Chambers, Cliff Robinson, and Detlef. I don't think you can really pinpoint one player.

When it comes to the KG comp, KG is for all intetns and purposes the FIRST positionless 7 foot two way player in the league. Flagg has postionless qualities too of course. BUT guys like KG and Giannis are in their own league for what they do around that 7 foot mark. IN terms of positonless two way 7 foot players. BUT Flagg could grow to be closer to their height. So that could be more apt as time goes on. But as of now, I'm diggin the Tatum-AK 47 comp.

[Im Still Ballin]

I'm thinking a mix of Tatum and AK 47 is kind of apt. If he keeps growing and is more 6'10 to 6'11ish, then you could get into a mix of guys like Nance, Chambers, Cliff Robinson, and Detlef. I don't think you can really pinpoint one player.

When it comes to the KG comp, KG is for all intetns and purposes the FIRST positionless 7 foot two way player in the league. Flagg has postionless qualities too of course. BUT guys like KG and Giannis are in their own league for what they do around that 7 foot mark. IN terms of positonless two way 7 foot players. BUT Flagg could grow to be closer to their height. So that could be more apt as time goes on. But as of now, I'm diggin the Tatum-AK 47 comp.

I like it. The OG Thorpesaurus said this about the Flagg-Tatum similarities:


I get a little of another one and done Dukie. Jason Tatum. The size is closer to PF, but not quite filled out. But the off the bounce shooting and in transition finishing has a little Tatum in it. He's better than Tatum was at that age on D, and on the glass, but Tatum rounded into a pretty high level rebounder. Flagg's a better shot blocker, and seems like a slightly better athlete in general. But he definitely reminds me of him in a bunch of ways.

Tatum/AK-47 lines up with that pretty well.

[Im Still Ballin]

Highlights from tonight's win:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHjiJ015B08

https://x.com/brhoops/status/1865928299635265781

- 20 points, 12 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 steals, 1 block
- 8-17 FG, 1-3 3PT, 3-3 FT

[90sgoat]

I don't feel the Tatum comparisons at all, Coop is just bigger, wider and longer and looks to drive more than Tatum, takes longer strides and is more aggressive.

I get more of a KD feel except the shooting, but in the way he attacks the basket with long strides.

[tontoz]

Aside from shooting he looks really good. Problem is that shooting is a pretty big issue in today's NBA. I counted only two made shots outside 3 feet.

This draft class is pretty strong. If the draft was today I probably take Harper before Flagg.

[highwhey]

which nba team will get him? wiz? or will the spurs get the lucky bounce again :rolleyes:

[bizil]

I don't feel the Tatum comparisons at all, Coop is just bigger, wider and longer and looks to drive more than Tatum, takes longer strides and is more aggressive.

I get more of a KD feel except the shooting, but in the way he attacks the basket with long strides.

BUT KD's the best shooting SF of ALL TIME! So shooting is a HUGE PART of KD's arsenal. He's a 50-40-90 guy. Plus KD is in that 6'11 to 7 foot range. That's why I said a Tatum-AK 47 combination. Tatum has put on weight and gotten stronger since's he's been in the league. And he plays mainly at the PF spot. And Tatum plays MORE PHYSICAL than KD does. AND has more positional versatility as a defender. And when you throw AK-47 stuff into the mix, that gives the freak athletic aggressive nature part. With Flagg,you can't compare him to just one player. He's a mix of some guys.

[ShawkFactory]

Aside from shooting he looks really good. Problem is that shooting is a pretty big issue in today's NBA. I counted only two made shots outside 3 feet.

This draft class is pretty strong. If the draft was today I probably take Harper before Flagg.

I’d probably still take Cooper first because of the 2 way impact he absolutely will have.

Harper reminds of a lefty SGA at times though. Not overly athletic but so smooth and crafty. Converts on every level.

Ace Bailey has been a little disappointing. His shot-making ability is absurd but that’s kind of it at the moment. No play-making or defense. He just kind of does his own thing.

[90sgoat]

BUT KD's the best shooting SF of ALL TIME! So shooting is a HUGE PART of KD's arsenal. He's a 50-40-90 guy. Plus KD is in that 6'11 to 7 foot range. That's why I said a Tatum-AK 47 combination. Tatum has put on weight and gotten stronger since's he's been in the league. And he plays mainly at the PF spot. And Tatum plays MORE PHYSICAL than KD does. AND has more positional versatility as a defender. And when you throw AK-47 stuff into the mix, that gives the freak athletic aggressive nature part. With Flagg,you can't compare him to just one player. He's a mix of some guys.

I never watched AK-47 play so that won't work for me lol.

I would say maybe Clifford Robinson? Played and guarded 3 through 5 and had that long build but moved like a big guard.

[tontoz]

I’d probably still take Cooper first because of the 2 way impact he absolutely will have.

Harper reminds of a lefty SGA at times though. Not overly athletic but so smooth and crafty. Converts on every level.

Ace Bailey has been a little disappointing. His shot-making ability is absurd but that’s kind of it at the moment. No play-making or defense. He just kind of does his own thing.

You must not have watched Bailey much if you think he doesn't play defense. From what I have seen he is a good defender. He has a good motor, is very vocal and uses his speed and length effectively.

I don't see the big two way impact with Flagg. He gets a lot of easy buckets because of his size and athleticism right now but he won't get as many at the next level. When he has to rely on skill the results haven't been great. His jumper has been bad so far, from midrange and from 3.

He isn't going to be a big rim protector in the NBA. He's only averaging 2 blocks per 40 minutes in college. That's less than half what Clingan had last season.

[90sgoat]

Who is the best euro for the upcoming draft?

[tontoz]

Who is the best euro for the upcoming draft?

Probably Demin, a freshman for BYU.

[bizil]

I never watched AK-47 play so that won't work for me lol.

I would say maybe Clifford Robinson? Played and guarded 3 through 5 and had that long build but moved like a big guard.

LOL!! Yep Ciff Robinson was one I mentioned earlier too. I think a hybrid of Cliff-Chambers-Nance-Detlef could be applied to Flagg as a comp. Defensive versatility of Cliff, freak athletic top notch scoring like Chambers, elite shot blocking freak athletic forward like Nance, could function as a point forward from the SF or PF while getting 8-10 RPG like Detlef. Flagg is so unique can't compare him to one player.

[warriorfan]

Coop covers a ridiculous amount of ground per dribble. Look at the clip at 1:15 below:

https://twitter.com/Frankie_Vision/status/1864533690375680039

https://i.ibb.co/gTVQbJt/9cspas.gif

That navigational efficiency with the change of speed and soft touch to finish. Damn. Impressive.

[ShawkFactory]

You must not have watched Bailey much if you think he doesn't play defense. From what I have seen he is a good defender. He has a good motor, is very vocal and uses his speed and length effectively.

I don't see the big two way impact with Flagg. He gets a lot of easy buckets because of his size and athleticism right now but he won't get as many at the next level. When he has to rely on skill the results haven't been great. His jumper has been bad so far, from midrange and from 3.

He isn't going to be a big rim protector in the NBA. He's only averaging 2 blocks per 40 minutes in college. That's less than half what Clingan had last season.

I've watched almost every Rutgers game this year. He gets away with his length and athleticism so on this level his defense is..fine. I don't know if that will convert all that well but I could be wrong and I hope I am because he's fun to watch.

As for Cooper, yes he will have a significant two-way impact. The size and athleticism you speak of is true because he's really strong and lengthy. He'll get even more easy buckets with the extra spacing and his transition game will be excellent. He also just has a nose for the ball and where to go with it. Not really something you can describe with a stat sheet but anything 50/50 is his, even if it's the likely player of the year in college basketball. These things will play in the NBA.

[Im Still Ballin]

Cooper's shooting has been really poor to start this season. He's like 35% on long twos and 25% on threes or thereabouts. 70% or so on FTs. But he's still doing 70% roughly at the rim. He was 54/144 on threes and 111/139 on FTs across 58 games in JR and SR seasons with Montverde in high school.

80% FT over a decent sample in high school. That gives me some confidence in his shooting potential.

[Im Still Ballin]

That being said I'm trying to focus on the big picture rather than getting caught up in small details. Shooting is important but Cooper just does so much well. A legit athletic two-way point forward is something I'm interested in.

Wagner (unfortunately just got injured) has shown MVP-esque lift this season while taking on a huge offensive responsibility. Maybe Flagg becomes a broadly similar type of player at the next level?

[Im Still Ballin]

That navigational efficiency with the change of speed and soft touch to finish. Damn. Impressive.

As funny as the whole navigational efficiency thing was, there's definitely truth to it. How well a player is able to translate their athleticism/raw movement onto the basketball court via basketball skills is important. Some guys can run a blistering 40 but put a ball in their hands and they're slower and stiffer than others.

Cooper has some issues with certain aspects of his handle but he's able to combine it with strong footwork to cover a lot of ground with a live dribble. Part of what makes him an open-court terror.

[tontoz]

Cooper is averaging 1.4 blocks per game. Anthony Davis averaged 4.6 blocks per game in college. Pretty big gap there.

[BarberSchool]

I was hoping by now, that his offensive game would have more polish, and that he would have kept growing, since light haired white dudes tend to not be done growing by 16-17.

But it is what it is. At 6’8.5-6’9”, he isn’t gonna be some defensive rim protector at the NBA Level. And his skills offensively aren’t SG/SF enough to warrant being a #1 pick.

Marketable, good looking kid, but I think anyone who thinks he can just magically be some generational player are delusional. He’ll average unimpressive numbers and be a decent player, but I can’t see how he could be a superstar like they want him to be, since it’s clear he’s done growing, and lacks guard level skills.

[90sgoat]

LOL!! Yep Ciff Robinson was one I mentioned earlier too. I think a hybrid of Cliff-Chambers-Nance-Detlef could be applied to Flagg as a comp. Defensive versatility of Cliff, freak athletic top notch scoring like Chambers, elite shot blocking freak athletic forward like Nance, could function as a point forward from the SF or PF while getting 8-10 RPG like Detlef. Flagg is so unique can't compare him to one player.

Cliff-Detlef-Nance probably gets most of it right to be honest.

[Im Still Ballin]

I wouldn't get too caught up in blocks per game at the expense of overall defensive impact. Miss the forest for the trees sort of thing. Duke is the #1 defense and Cooper's advanced analytics (Evan Miya, KenPom, Bart Torvik) are really good.

2025 Duke's defensive numbers
BartTorvik: 89.8 adjusted DRtg [-15.8 rDRtg] (1st)
KenPom: 89.4 adjusted DRtg (1st)
EvanMiya: 14.2 D-Rate (3rd)

2012 Kentucky's numbers
BartTorvik: 90.4 adjusted DRtg [-12.2 rDRtg] (9th)
KenPom: 89.6 adjusted DRtg (7th)
EvanMiya: 11.7 D-Rate (8th)

Cooper Flagg's numbers
BartTorvik: 5.8 D-PRPG (1st); 5.8 DBPM (15th)
EvanMiya: 3.8 DBPR (3rd); 1.36 Box DBPR (1st)

Anthony Davis' numbers
BartTorvik: 5.6 D-PRPG (1st); 7.6 DBPM (1st)
EvanMiya: 3.35 DBPR (15th); 3.68 Box DBPR (1st)

[Im Still Ballin]

Duke's shooting splits:

https://i.ibb.co/3srMC8L/XIEEWXY-d.webp

Cooper's jump shooting is yikes! But those rim numbers are really good given his outside game sucks right now. 70% at the rim with decent volume and lots of self creation.

[Neal Romer]

ISB lemme ask you this: I know theres some numbers floating around about his height and his wingspan and his max vertical and whatnot and who knows how reliable those numbers are.

If you had to eyeball it, what would you guess his... max horizontal is?

OBVIOUSLY he's not Lebron. Nobody is. But you reckon hes got somethin pretty respectable going on?

[90sgoat]

Those numbers are fine, remember that Lebron had horrid shooting splits until Miami, he show low 30s on everything but layups and dunks.

[tontoz]

Those numbers are fine, remember that Lebron had horrid shooting splits until Miami, he show low 30s on everything but layups and dunks.


First if all Flagg doesn't have the handles or athleticism of Lebron. Secondly Cooper is shooting 22% from the college 3 pt line. That is awful.

[Neal Romer]

First if all Flagg doesn't have the handles or athleticism of Lebron. Secondly Cooper is shooting 22% from the college 3 pt line. That is awful.

In fairness it's quite a small sample size.

Theres still NBA players this season whove taken way more shots than Flagg and are still shooting very anomalous percentages. Some guys still over 50% for the year, other guys like KCP under 30%. None of thats going to last til the end of the season.

Shooting can be very streaky when youre talking about weeks or even months worth of sample sizes. It's very possible Flagg is a 35% shooter right now in terms of ability, and hes just in a small sample rut. No way to know at this point really.

In fact I would say it's almost impossible he's a truly 22% shooter from three. A guy with his talent, in this era, just couldnt be THAT bad at it. Theres plenty of guys with less coordination and worse mechanics who shoot better than that.

So I wouldnt call it a cause for concern at this point.

[tontoz]

In fairness it's quite a small sample size.

Theres still NBA players this season whove taken way more shots than Flagg and are still shooting very anomalous percentages. Some guys still over 50% for the year, other guys like KCP under 30%. None of thats going to last til the end of the season.

Shooting can be very streaky when youre talking about weeks or even months worth of sample sizes. It's very possible Flagg is a 35% shooter right now in terms of ability, and hes just in a small sample rut. No way to know at this point really.

In fact I would say it's almost impossible he's a truly 22% shooter from three. A guy with his talent, in this era, just couldnt be THAT bad at it. Theres plenty of guys with less coordination and worse mechanics who shoot better than that.

So I wouldnt call it a cause for concern at this point.



If he was projected 10th in the mocks then it would be easier to ignore. At number 1 his inability to shoot anywhere outside of 3 feet is a glaring problem. And his sample of total shots outside 3 feet is almost 100 shots.

Among all the top 10 college prospects I believe Edgecomb is the only one struggling with his shot as much as Flagg.

[90sgoat]

It's also that you shouldn't go to college to learn how to shoot corner 3s. We've seen time and time again that almost every NBA player can learn to shoot 3s on the job.

What they can't learn in the league is who to learn good fundamentals and intangibles, because the NBA is a win now league where teammates are also competitors.

Coop should focus on the fundamentals and team play and developing his strengths. He can learn to shoot 3s over a summer break.

[tontoz]

It's also that you shouldn't go to college to learn how to shoot corner 3s. We've seen time and time again that almost every NBA player can learn to shoot 3s on the job.

What they can't learn in the league is who to learn good fundamentals and intangibles, because the NBA is a win now league where teammates are also competitors.

Coop should focus on the fundamentals and team play and developing his strengths. He can learn to shoot 3s over a summer break.


It isn't just shooting 3s. He cant shoot from anywhere outside 3 feet.

If he was shooting 45% from midrange then i would have some optimisim that he could extend that to 3s.

[Im Still Ballin]

Here's the shooting data from Cooper's senior year at Montverde:


The biggest question that most people will have about Flagg’s offense is his shot. The biggest “issue” is that it just kind of looks funky. There are surely some mechanical tweaks that Flagg can/should make, there always are, but he’s gotten incrementally better as a shooter every year. While his mechanics may not be aesthetically pleasing, they are consistent, and the numbers have been solid.

Last year at Montverde, Flagg took 56.9% of his jumpers (74 attempts) from three. On these attempts, he shot 39.2%, ranked in the 78th percentile in PPP, shot 37.7% off the catch, and shot 42.9% off the dribble. Flagg also shot 39.3% on all two-point attempts, 43.2% from inside 17 feet, and 31.6% on long two-point attempts. Nearly all of these numbers are up from last year, combined with his 79.6% free throw percentage and quality floater (45% and 72nd percentile in PPP), suggesting that at worst, Flagg should be an average shooter.

Some data about his off-ball offensive game. Strong Shawn Marion vibes; can get 15-20 ppg without any plays called for him.


With Montverde, Flagg was mostly used as an incredibly efficient play finisher and connector as he ranked in the 81st percentile in transition scoring, 73rd percentile spotting up, 91st percentile on offensive rebounds, and 83rd percentile on cuts. Those were his four most common play types that accounted for 65.9% of his possessions.

And some numbers regarding his playmaking.


We got a glimpse of it in that clip, but one of the most underrated aspects of Flagg’s game is his passing. With Montverde, Flagg ranked in the 94th percentile in PPP with assists included, averaged just over four assists per game, had a turnover rate of just 11.1%, and had an assist-to-turnover ratio of 2.53. When it comes to decision-making, connective passing, and floor awareness, there aren’t many players in this class who are as impressive as Flagg, especially at his position.

[tontoz]

Those numbers look odd. 31.6% on long 2s but 39% on 3s? Typically guys shoot a higher percentage on long 2s than 3s, sometimes 10%+ better.

[Im Still Ballin]

I don't have access to the Synergy Sports Tracking data so I can't comment on that. The shooting is a concern but it's too early to make it out to be a critical issue. Moreover, Dylan Harper is just balling out and I can absolutely see him take poll position in the draft projections. Shades of Harden/SGA?

[tontoz]

I don't have access to the Synergy Sports Tracking data so I can't comment on that. The shooting is a concern but it's too early to make it out to be a critical issue. Moreover, Dylan Harper is just balling out and I can absolutely see him take poll position in the draft projections. Shades of Harden/SGA?


Yeah I've watched Harper a few times and I would say he is the clear best player right now, especially now that he is warming up from 3.

I also like Tre Johnson from Texas. He put on a show in the 2nd half last game vs UConn.

[Proctor]

ISB lemme ask you this: I know theres some numbers floating around about his height and his wingspan and his max vertical and whatnot and who knows how reliable those numbers are.

If you had to eyeball it, what would you guess his... max horizontal is?

OBVIOUSLY he's not Lebron. Nobody is. But you reckon hes got somethin pretty respectable going on?

Anyone figure this shit out?

[tontoz]

Anyone figure this shit out?

Looks like he wants to know Cooper's dick size. :lol

[Im Still Ballin]

All-around good game. His efficiency was better than the statistics suggest. He had a few Moses Malone, multiple-missed tip-ins in the first half which led to him being 2/11 FG at one point.

- 24 points, 9 rebounds (5 off), 4 assists, 3 steals, 1 block
- 7/20 FG, 2/5 3PT, 8/8 FT

https://x.com/brhoops/status/1869207624820138488


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOWXU6knGOA&pp=ygUMY29vcGVyIGZsYWdn

[Im Still Ballin]

Didn't realize Duke played today. I thought the game was tomorrow. One of his best games yet.

- 24 points, 3 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 steals, 1 block, 1 turnover
- 9/14 FG, 2/4 3PT, 4/4 FT


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uj7RwFrPGI

[90sgoat]

Flagg is going to be really good, I'm sure of it.

He'll be playing SF/PF and now I realize who he reminds me off: Franz Wagner.

He is a very similar body type and physicality, but quicker and way more athletic, but he plays the same game, triple threat creation, drive kick, low post moves but also range.

And he has the defense of PG/Kirilenko.

You could also say he plays an old man Lebron game, very similar, you can tell he's been watching Lebron a lot.

He's going to be a star if he gets time to develop and keeps growing and filling out.

Like I said, put him in a situation to be the secondary ball handler and he'll do great.

[Im Still Ballin]

Another great game for Cooper.

- 24 points, 11 rebounds (3 offensive), 3 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks, 3 turnovers
- 7/12 FG, 2/2 3PT, 8/8 FT


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uph1Shwie5A&pp=ygUMY29vcGVyIGZsYWdn

[Im Still Ballin]

He's now at 54.7% TS and 30% 3PT for the season. For freshman comparison: Paolo 55.7% TS and 33.8% 3PT and Tatum 56.6% TS and 34.2% 3PT. We're dealing with incredibly small samples here so the numbers change quick.

[Im Still Ballin]

Another great game for Cooper. Had a monster steal-and-transition-dunk sequence.

- 19 points, 10 rebounds (1 offensive), 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 3 turnovers
- 7/11 FG, 1/2 3PT, 4/6 FT


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z7NLyBYS7w&pp=ygUMY29vcGVyIGZsYWdn


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3VXv-c6tPE&pp=ygUMY29vcGVyIGZsYWdn

[tontoz]

Flagg dropped 42 today:

11-14 from the field
4-6 from 3
16-17 from the foul line

:bowdown:

[ralph_i_el]

Flagg dropped 42 today:

11-14 from the field
4-6 from 3
16-17 from the foul line

:bowdown:

Scored every which way too. On and off the ball, from all over the court. Insane performance.

[ShawkFactory]

Number one pick completely locked up now I think.

[tontoz]

Number one pick completely locked up now I think.

Over his last 6 games he's 12-22 from 3 so yeah I think that locks it up. Shooting foul shots well too.

[90sgoat]

What a clip with his dunks there!

I'm very high on Coop, I think he'll be a star and I think people underestimate his athletic ability. He is strong and takes very long strides and can jump.

I still think his best comparison is Frank Wagner, less shooting, more defense. He also has some Giannis in his game, the defense and the long strides, simple but effective.

[Im Still Ballin]

Beast.

[Im Still Ballin]

Could Cooper win NPOY? Johni Broome just went down with an injury. He might miss a lot of games. There have only been 3 freshmen ever to win NPOY: Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis, and Zion Williamson.

[ShawkFactory]

Could Cooper win NPOY? Johni Broome just went down with an injury. He might miss a lot of games. There have only been 3 freshmen ever to win NPOY: Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis, and Zion Williamson.

I’ve watched most of the best teams at least once and I think it’s pretty clear at this point that Flagg is the best player in college basketball. If he continues to improve and find this groove it’ll only be more obvious. Even if Broome didn’t go down.

[90sgoat]

Could Cooper win NPOY? Johni Broome just went down with an injury. He might miss a lot of games. There have only been 3 freshmen ever to win NPOY: Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis, and Zion Williamson.

I don't know but he is beginning to look like a man among boys, in college mind you, not high school.

In some way, I wish he'd stay one more year in college. He clearly needs to learn more, particularly shooting.

He'll still be ROY probably, but his shooting form looks like it might need some touch, not a lot of arch. Shoots decently quick and high though.

[Im Still Ballin]

I’ve watched most of the best teams at least once and I think it’s pretty clear at this point that Flagg is the best player in college basketball. If he continues to improve and find this groove it’ll only be more obvious. Even if Broome didn’t go down.

I heard KenPom had Flagg #1 for NPOY even prior to Broome's injury.


I don't know but he is beginning to look like a man among boys, in college mind you, not high school.

In some way, I wish he'd stay one more year in college. He clearly needs to learn more, particularly shooting.

He'll still be ROY probably, but his shooting form looks like it might need some touch, not a lot of arch. Shoots decently quick and high though.

Cooper's too good for college basketball to return for a sophomore season. Hell, he's NBA-level right now.

[Im Still Ballin]

Cooper's Synergy Sports Tracking play-type stats:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GhFmb_cWcAAYO-n?format=png&name=900x900

[Im Still Ballin]

Another great game tonight for Cooper in his return to the North East. Lots of people from Maine came to watch him play. He's strengthening that NPOY case with Broome out injured.

- 28 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks, 2 turnovers
- 9/14 FG, 1/3 3PT, 9/11 FT

https://x.com/Frankie_Vision/status/1880820446574366990


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CbjPYtDxN4

[Im Still Ballin]

Cooper's bully-ball potential is legit. He's really functionally strong, has superb balance, and absorbs contact exceptionally well. He's one of those guys whose strength exceeds his weight. He's probably only around cruiserweight (205-210 pounds) right now but engages physically like a heavyweight. Draymond/Rodman-like.

Makes sense when you look at his sturdy/thick, wide-bodied frame. He'll get up to 235-240 and be a bully at the wing position in the NBA.

[Im Still Ballin]

Updated stats:

- 19.2 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 4.1 apg, 1.6 spg, 1.2 bpg, 2.6 topg
- 48.8% FG, 34.8% 3PT, 54.0% 2PT, 53.5% eFG, 80.9% FT, 59.2% TS
- 15.8 BPM

Inching closer to Anthony Davis' 17.24 BPM. Worth mentioning that AD was 19.27 years old when drafted; Cooper will be 18.5, so what he's doing for his age is remarkable. He'll be like one week older than LeBron when he was drafted.

[90sgoat]

Seems like the claims of his inability to shoot were premature.

[Lakers Legend#32]

This generation's JJ Reddick.

[ShawkFactory]

This generation's JJ Reddick.

Lol what? One of the more outlandish things I’ve ever seen said in ISH. Which obviously is saying something

[90sgoat]

Cooper will be 18.5, so what he's doing for his age is remarkable. He'll be like one week older than LeBron when he was drafted.

I think it's a shame there isn't a better system to keep someone like Coop in college. One more year and he'd have polished his skillset even more. Instead he will likely struggle a bit with the physicality of the NBA and learn slower.

[Im Still Ballin]

I think it's a shame there isn't a better system to keep someone like Coop in college. One more year and he'd have polished his skillset even more. Instead he will likely struggle a bit with the physicality of the NBA and learn slower.

Why? Flagg is already extremely polished and well-rounded. Literally the last guy I'd hold back from the pros. His biggest issue (shooting) is something that isn't going to benefit from staying in college. Cooper's playing like NPOY senior Shane Battier except he's a super-young freshman. Not as good of a shooter but a better playmaker.

Staying in college is most beneficial for players who are wet between the ears. This means decision-making, BBall IQ, and awareness. That's more in line with guys like Jaylen Green and Anthony Edwards. They'd have benefitted from the variety of lineups and defenses faced at the collegiate level.

[90sgoat]

Why? Flagg is already extremely polished and well-rounded. Literally the last guy I'd hold back from the pros. His biggest issue (shooting) is something that isn't going to benefit from staying in college. Cooper's playing like NPOY senior Shane Battier except he's a super-young freshman. Not as good of a shooter but a better playmaker.

Staying in college is most beneficial for players who are wet between the ears. This means decision-making, BBall IQ, and awareness. That's more in line with guys like Jaylen Green and Anthony Edwards. They'd have benefitted from the variety of lineups and defenses faced at the collegiate level.

Duncan stayed, MJ had two years, Bird had two years etc.

[Im Still Ballin]

Poor circular logic. It's just a stupid idea. Cooper is way too developed already to waste an extra year in college. Staying in college is for the guys who have clear skill deficiencies and poor awareness, feel for the game, IQ, and decision-making.

There is nothing in Flagg's game that suggests he needs more time playing college ball.

[tontoz]

Yeah there isn't any argument for Flagg to stay in school. :facepalm

[warriorfan]

Duncan stayed, MJ had two years, Bird had two years etc.

times have changed