Lebron has 4 gold medals and 6 silver medals.

[StrongLurk]

This is the right framing on "finals recordings". It's always cringe when Lebron haters act like his finals record is somehow a negative on his resume :lol. Lebron in reality has 4 gold medals, 6 silver medals. It is NOT better to miss than finals than to lose in the finals.

By the way, "gold medals" need to have a FMVP with it. So let's look at the results below.

MJ: 6 gold medals
Lebron: 4 gold medals, 6 silver medals
Shaq: 3 gold medals, 2 silver medals
Duncan: 3 gold medals, 1 silver medal
Magic: 3 gold medals, 4 silver medals
Kareem: 2 gold medals, 4 silver medals
Kobe: 2 gold medals, 2 silver medals
Bird: 2 gold medals, 2 silver medals
Durant: 2 gold medals, 1 silver medal
Curry: 1 gold medal, 2 silver medals

[StrongLurk]

Yet still, 6 gold medals looks better than 4 golds & 6 silver.


.

Maybe, maybe not. I generally agree with you.

How about this.

What is better out of the below options.

Option 1: 6 Gold Medals
Option 2: 6 Gold Medals, 2 Silver Medals.

[Airupthere]

I like the idea that losing in the finals as favorites can be masked as a "silver" win.

[Nowoco]

Stupid comparison.

If you finish 2nd in the Olympics, you get a silver medal.

If you lose the NBA finals, you get nothing.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExaThkMmVlbThlbTNjYmZnMms0YnlyN2p 1dW50c3V1bGtqMXBhb2lmdCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/sRMPFaVQLGSw8/giphy.webp

[Hey Yo]

Better to play for Gold than watching on TV.

[8Ball]

LeBron has 3 golds, 1 bronze in the olympics.

Jordan has 2.


LeBron also better olympic performer and olympic MVP at age 39.


LeBron is a vastly better performer in he olympics vs tougher competition than Jordan was.




Jordan worship is 100% nostalgia at this point.

[Full Court]

Imagine having the best second option in the history of the sport.....

And being a perennial play in guy with him.

And imagine stanning a guy who has the most choke jobs in the history of the sport.

:lebroncry:

[SouBeachTalents]

Imagine having the best second option in the history of the sport.....

And being a perennial play in guy with him.

And imagine stanning a guy who has the most choke jobs in the history of the sport.

:lebroncry:
I don't think OP's a Wilt stan.

[Axe]

I don't think OP's a Wilt stan.
:oldlol:

[StrongLurk]

Stupid comparison.

If you finish 2nd in the Olympics, you get a silver medal.

If you lose the NBA finals, you get nothing.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExaThkMmVlbThlbTNjYmZnMms0YnlyN2p 1dW50c3V1bGtqMXBhb2lmdCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/sRMPFaVQLGSw8/giphy.webp

It's to represent a second place finish and how finishing second is not a "negative" lol. Guess you are too dumb to understand.

[StrongLurk]

I like the idea that losing in the finals as favorites can be masked as a "silver" win.

2nd place is 2nd place :confusedshrug:

Obviously WINNING is the ideal outcome, but getting second place is better than missing the finals completely.

[Full Court]

:oldlol:

What up, stinkpot?

:lebronamazed:

[Full Court]

I don't think OP's a Wilt stan.

It was primarily directed toward that insecure Canadian 8ball.

Also, they didn't have the play in tourney back when Wilt played. FYI.

[Full Court]

2nd place is 2nd place :confusedshrug:

Obviously WINNING is the ideal outcome, but getting second place is better than missing the finals completely.

I've never seen anyone ever try to dispute that. It's a straw man argument created by Bronies. :confusedshrug:

However, one finals WIN is worth more than an infinite number of second places.

[Axe]

It's to represent a second place finish and how finishing second is not a "negative" lol. Guess you are too dumb to understand.
I remember John8204 telling in another thread about preferring a team making the finals multiple times and not winning over a team appearing to win the title and not appear again. To each his own, i guess. (https://i.ibb.co/JmpGnKz/IMG-20230528-095117.jpg)

[StrongLurk]

I've never seen anyone ever try to dispute that. It's a straw man argument created by Bronies. :confusedshrug:

However, one finals WIN is worth more than an infinite number of second places.

It's not a strawman, it's probably a top-3 "go to" point for Lebron haters. They try their hardest to make it seem like going 4-6 in the finals is some colossal failure in Lebron's career :lol

[Im Still Ballin]

How do we account for a weak conference? Was Cleveland truly the second-best team in 2007? Of course not!

[StrongLurk]

How do we account for a weak conference? Was Cleveland truly the second-best team in 2007? Of course not!

Do you want to go that route every single year? Feel free to try that exercise every year since 1970 and post your results on ISH.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Stupid comparison.

If you finish 2nd in the Olympics, you get a silver medal.

If you lose the NBA finals, you get nothing.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExaThkMmVlbThlbTNjYmZnMms0YnlyN2p 1dW50c3V1bGtqMXBhb2lmdCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/sRMPFaVQLGSw8/giphy.webp

That's weird, I guess they take back the conference championship trophy and celebration if you lose the finals?

Good insight

[Full Court]

It's not a strawman, it's probably a top-3 "go to" point for Lebron haters. They try their hardest to make it seem like going 4-6 in the finals is some colossal failure in Lebron's career :lol

Show me one person that's ever claimed that it's better not to make it to the finals than to lose the finals. Just one person.









Hint: you can't.





And by the way, when you say "not six...not seven....." then yes, it's a colossal failure. And when you have the biggest finals choke in the history of the sport, you can't be the GOAT. Sorry, but that's just the truth - hurt as it may.

[iamgine]

Iguodala: 1 gold medal, 3 silver medals

[StrongLurk]

Iguodala: 1 gold medal, 3 silver medals

:rockon:

[StrongLurk]

Show me one person that's ever claimed that it's better not to make it to the finals than to lose the finals. Just one person.









Hint: you can't.





And by the way, when you say "not six...not seven....." then yes, it's a colossal failure. And when you have the biggest finals choke in the history of the sport, you can't be the GOAT. Sorry, but that's just the truth - hurt as it may.

It's been said millions of times on social media and even ISH itself. I'm sure you yourself have tried to paint Lebron going 4-6 in the finals as this awful, resume killing thing. I would say "quit acting dumb" but you just are dumb so...

[sdot_thadon]

It's not a strawman, it's probably a top-3 "go to" point for Lebron haters. They try their hardest to make it seem like going 4-6 in the finals is some colossal failure in Lebron's career :lol

You're talking about guys who still build their arguments with stone tools in 2024 though. It's only really an issue when someone is being disingenuous and try to equate rings to level of play, assuming you can't have possibly have had an all time great year without winning the finals. Or played at a higher level than someone who managed to win another season. Maybe next they will discover fire.....

[Full Court]

It's been said millions of times on social media and even ISH itself. I'm sure you yourself have tried to paint Lebron going 4-6 in the finals as this awful, resume killing thing. I would say "quit acting dumb" but you just are dumb so...

Yes, he massively underachieved. When you lose the finals as a favorite with home court advantage due to the star choking, that adds context. You can try to sugar coat it all you want, but the dude underachieved.

Bronies have no counter to that except to create a straw man and try to twist that into someone saying it's better to not make the finals. That's just silly, and you know it.

Now, again, show me someone who's claimed that it's better to not make the finals.




Hint: you can't.

[StrongLurk]

Yes, he massively underachieved. When you lose the finals as a favorite with home court advantage due to the star choking, that adds context. You can try to sugar coat it all you want, but the dude underachieved.

Bronies have no counter to that except to create a straw man and try to twist that into someone saying it's better to not make the finals. That's just silly, and you know it.

Now, again, show me someone who's claimed that it's better to not make the finals.




Hint: you can't.

How has Lebron massively underachieved? He has 4 FMVPs, second most all time.

He literally lost one finals as the favorite, which was 2011. And he deserves tons of criticism for that because he played poorly in that 2011 series.

It's hilarious that you are saying "no one misrepresents Lebron's finals performances" and yet you are literally doing that in your own posts :oldlol:

[Full Court]

How has Lebron massively underachieved? He has 4 FMVPs, second most all time.

He literally lost one finals as the favorite, which was 2011. And he deserves tons of criticism for that because he played poorly in that 2011 series.

It's hilarious that you are saying "no one misrepresents Lebron's finals performances" and yet you are literally doing that in your own posts :oldlol:

You put quotation marks around something I literally didn't say. :roll:

See, all you can do is try to twist the arguments of Lebron critics. Fact is, he didn't meet expectations. He himself claimed he'd win eight titles.

But that aside - the argument his critics put forward is that you Bronies give him way to MUCH credit for making it TO the finals when he had an incredibly easy road there in the Weak East for many of his finals....only to then lose on the big stage. That is a sound argument. NOBODY has EVER said or implied it would have been better for him to have gotten eliminated in the first round in the Weak East (like he did in the West by Phoenix and Denver :lebronamazed:). But surely you know that's not what was meant and are just trying to twist things in your favor. Or are you guys really that dumb.......?

[StrongLurk]

You put quotation marks around something I literally didn't say. :roll:

See, all you can do is try to twist the arguments of Lebron critics. Fact is, he didn't meet expectations. He himself claimed he'd win eight titles.

But that aside - the argument his critics put forward is that you Bronies give him way to MUCH credit for making it TO the finals when he had an incredibly easy road there in the Weak East for many of his finals....only to then lose on the big stage. That is a sound argument. NOBODY has EVER said or implied it would have been better for him to have gotten eliminated in the first round in the Weak East (like he did in the West by Phoenix and Denver :lebronamazed:). But surely you know that's not what was meant and are just trying to twist things in your favor. Or are you guys really that dumb.......?

Bro TONS of Lebron haters think Lebron going 4-6 in the finals is the WORST thing about him. Having a "losing record" in the finals and claim its some kind of huge failure.

Even you said he massively underachieved by "only" winning 4 rings/4 FMVPs.

Either way, the guy has 4 1st place finishes and 6 second place finishes. I agree he should've at least won 2011 however. Either way it's still insanely impressive.

[Full Court]

Bro TONS of Lebron haters think Lebron going 4-6 in the finals is the WORST thing about him. Having a "losing record" in the finals and claim its some kind of huge failure.

Even you said he massively underachieved by "only" winning 4 rings/4 FMVPs.

Either way, the guy has 4 1st place finishes and 6 second place finishes. I agree he should've at least won 2011 however. Either way it's still insanely impressive.

The worst thing about Lebron is his choking, not his finals record....

And yes, I agree that his finals record is enough to get him in the top ten of all time.

But what we've demonstrated here is that you can't show a single instance of someone claiming it's better to not make the finals. Which makes the entire premise of this thread invalid.

You're welcome.

[Gudo]

Bro TONS of Lebron haters think Lebron going 4-6 in the finals is the WORST thing about him. Having a "losing record" in the finals and claim its some kind of huge failure.

Even you said he massively underachieved by "only" winning 4 rings/4 FMVPs.

Either way, the guy has 4 1st place finishes and 6 second place finishes. I agree he should've at least won 2011 however. Either way it's still insanely impressive.

When you put yourself in the GOAT debate, there is an inherent high expectation that comes with it. Lebron has played in a number of loaded teams (a lot of which he handpicked), and the benefit of a weak conference. But the ability to play consistently when the stakes are highest (finals), is a huge mark of a great player.

[StrongLurk]

The worst thing about Lebron is his choking, not his finals record....

And yes, I agree that his finals record is enough to get him in the top ten of all time.

But what we've demonstrated here is that you can't show a single instance of someone claiming it's better to not make the finals. Which makes the entire premise of this thread invalid.

You're welcome.

Ah I forgot you are just a troll. Weren't you the guy who initially had Kobe, Shaq, and Lebron outside of the top ten?

[tpols]

When you put yourself in the GOAT debate, there is an inherent high expectation that comes with it. Lebron has played in a number of loaded teams (a lot of which he handpicked), and the benefit of a weak conference. But the ability to play consistently when the stakes are highest (finals), is a huge mark of a great player.

Exactly.

It's like Team USA winning silver or bronze. Nobody would be happy with that.

GOATs have different expectations and MJ was the Gold standard by far without team hopping every couple years in his prime with tons of star talent... and then still losing more than he won while doing that.

[StrongLurk]

When you put yourself in the GOAT debate, there is an inherent high expectation that comes with it. Lebron has played in a number of loaded teams (a lot of which he handpicked), and the benefit of a weak conference. But the ability to play consistently when the stakes are highest (finals), is a huge mark of a great player.

I agree the standards are high. 10 finals, 4 rings, 4 FMVP, 4 MVPs, 20 all-nba teams. Only MJ has a better resume in the 3 point era.

[StrongLurk]

Exactly.

It's like Team USA winning silver or bronze. Nobody would be happy with that.

GOATs have different expectations and MJ was the Gold standard by far without team hopping every couple years in his prime with tons of star talent... and then still losing more than he won while doing that.

Everyone loses more than they won. Remember all those times MJ lost BEFORE the finals?

I love how the Lebron haters are just proving my point while trying to say I am wrong. Tpols right here claiming "lebron lost more than he won". This is the illogical "Framing" of Lebron's resume, particularly the 4-6 finals record. The haters TRY to make it seem like going 4-6 in the finals is a "bad" thing. Making the finals itself as the best player on your team is a huge accomplishment no matter how you slice it.

Somehow Lebron having the second most "golds" in the 3-point era is still "losing" in their minds.

[Full Court]

Everyone loses more than they won. Remember all those times MJ lost BEFORE the finals?

I love how the Lebron haters are just proving my point while trying to say I am wrong. Tpols right here claiming "lebron lost more than he won". This is the illogical "Framing" of Lebron's resume, particularly the 4-6 finals record. The haters TRY to make it seem like going 4-6 in the finals is a "bad" thing. Making the finals itself as the best player on your team is a huge accomplishment no matter how you slice it.

Somehow Lebron having the second most "golds" in the 3-point era is still "losing" in their minds.

People on both sides of the issue tend to make overly-simplistic one-liners. "1-9 hehehe" or "4/10 hehehe."

That doesn't change the fact that when you look at the overall context, Lebron has underachieved. And that too is relative, because he's still one of the all time greats. But when you compare him to the other all time greats, nobody else has as many egregious choke jobs as he does. For example, in 2008 he had an epic choke job against the Celtics in the conference finals - something that doesn't get talked about much due to being overshadowed by his greatest-choke-job-of-all-time in 2011. That 2008 playoffs loss was DEFINITELY worse than if he had made it to the finals and lost there.

It's about expectations. When you're expected to win, and you blow it, it's a black mark. Like it or not. If you go to a super team (not to mention make a documentary trying to sugar coat it), claim you're going to win eight titles, then go on to have the worst choke job of all time and ultimately only end up winning two, most people are going to consider that underachievement.

We've already established that you do not consider it underachievement, but your supporting argument lacks any context. It boils down to "silver medals are still pretty good." Ok....sure.

[StrongLurk]

People on both sides of the issue tend to make overly-simplistic one-liners. "1-9 hehehe" or "4/10 hehehe."

That doesn't change the fact that when you look at the overall context, Lebron has underachieved. And that too is relative, because he's still one of the all time greats. But when you compare him to the other all time greats, nobody else has as many egregious choke jobs as he does. For example, in 2008 he had an epic choke job against the Celtics in the conference finals - something that doesn't get talked about much due to being overshadowed by his greatest-choke-job-of-all-time in 2011. That 2008 playoffs loss was DEFINITELY worse than if he had made it to the finals and lost there.

It's about expectations. When you're expected to win, and you blow it, it's a black mark. Like it or not. If you go to a super team (not to mention make a documentary trying to sugar coat it), claim you're going to win eight titles, then go on to have the worst choke job of all time and ultimately only end up winning two, most people are going to consider that underachievement.

We've already established that you do not consider it underachievement, but your supporting argument lacks any context. It boils down to "silver medals are still pretty good." Ok....sure.

Your entire "Lebron chokes" schtick was completely disproven a while back. We saw that troll thread buddy So yeah, your comments on Lebron choking and underachieve are completely false.

You are bad at trolling.

You can't troll facts -> Lebron has the second most GOLDs besides MJ, and also has 6 2nd place finishes too. Only MJ's resume is better as evidenced by my OP.

Again go ahead and claim finals losses are bad and don't count...we can look at just the gold numbers if you want.

[Full Court]

Your entire "Lebron chokes" schtick was completely disproven a while back. We saw that troll thread buddy So yeah, your comments on Lebron choking and underachieve are completely false.

You are bad at trolling.

You can't troll facts -> Lebron has the second most GOLDs besides MJ, and also has 6 2nd place finishes too. Only MJ's resume is better as evidenced by my OP.

Again go ahead and claim finals losses are bad and don't count...we can look at just the gold numbers if you want.

You call it "trolling," but none of you have been able to counter my list of choke jobs with anything other than attempts to redefine what a choke is. Here's the data (updated with his two choke jobs against Denver this past season):



2007 game 1 against Detroit. 10 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Game 2 against Detroit. 19 points on 37% shooting. LOSS.

Game 1 against the Spurs. 14 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.

2008 game 1 against Boston. 12 points and 10 turnovers on 11% shooting. 0/6 from three. LOSS.

Game 2 against Boston. 21 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against Boston. 21 points on 31% shooting.

Game 4 against Boston. 21 points on 35% shooting.

2009 game 3 against Orlando. He scored 41 points, but on absolutely horrendous efficiency. 39% shooting and 1/8 from three. LOSS. Someone should have made him stop shooting.

2010 game 5 against Boston. 15 points on 21% shooting!!! LOSS. The series was tied 2-2 until that game. That Lebron choke put the Cavs down 3-2, and they went on to lose the series.

2011 game 1 against Philadelphia. 21 points on 29% shooting.

Game 5 against Philadelphia. 16 points on 39% shooting.

Game 3 against Boston. 15 points on 38% shooting. LOSS.

Game 1 against Chicago. 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Finals against Dallas. Most epic choke job of all time. Game 3, 17 points.

Game 4, 8 points on 27% shooting. LOSS.

Game 5, 17 points. LOSS.

Game 6, 21 points and 6 turnovers. LOSS.

2013 game 2 against San Antonio. 17 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against San Antonio, 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Game 5 against San Antonio, 25 points on 36% shooting. LOSS.

2014 game 5 against Indiana. 7 points on 20% shooting. Whooaaaaaaaa! LOSS.

2015 game 1 against Chicago. 19 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.

Game 6 against Chicago. 15 points on 30% shooting.

Game 4 against Golden State. 20 points on 32% shooting.

2016 game 3 against Detroit. 20 points on 33% shooting.

Game 2 against Golden State. 19 points on 42% shooting. LOSS.

2017 game 3 against Boston. 11 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.

2018 game 1 against Indiana. 24 points on 41% shooting. 0% from three. LOSS.

Game 1 against Boston. 15 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.

2020 game 2 against Portland. 10 points on 36% shooting.

Game 1 against Houston. 20 points. LOSS.

Game 4 against Houston. 16 points on 41% shooting.

Game 1 against Denver. 15 points.

2021 game 1 against Phoenix. 18 points on 46% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against Phoenix. 21 points and 7 turnovers on 47% shooting.

Game 6 against Phoenix. 29 points on 11/26 shooting. ELIMINATION.

2023 game 5 against Memphis. 15 points on 29% shooting. 1-9 from three. LOSS.

Game 1 against Golden State. 22 points on 38% shooting. 1-8 from three.

Game 2 against Denver. 22 points. 0-6 from three. LOSS.

Game 4 against Denver. Wasted multiple possessions in 4th quarter, missed key shots, and blew the game-tying shot in the last possession. SWEPT.

2024 game 1 against Denver. 0 points in the fourth quarter of a close game. Actually, he had two points, but that was from an uncontested layup in the final minute of the game after Denver had already closed the game out. LOSS

Game 2 against Denver. The game is tied and the Lakers have the final possession. Instead of running the clock down, Lebron clanks a low-IQ three point shot, leaving Denver with plenty of time for a final possession. Murray, who is way more clutch than Lebron, makes the buzzer beater. LOSS.



If his career goes on for too many more years, I'll run out of character space for his choke jobs. :lol

[StrongLurk]

You call it "trolling," but none of you have been able to counter my list of choke jobs with anything other than attempts to redefine what a choke is. Here's the data (updated with his two choke jobs against Denver this past season):



2007 game 1 against Detroit. 10 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Game 2 against Detroit. 19 points on 37% shooting. LOSS.

Game 1 against the Spurs. 14 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.

2008 game 1 against Boston. 12 points and 10 turnovers on 11% shooting. 0/6 from three. LOSS.

Game 2 against Boston. 21 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against Boston. 21 points on 31% shooting.

Game 4 against Boston. 21 points on 35% shooting.

2009 game 3 against Orlando. He scored 41 points, but on absolutely horrendous efficiency. 39% shooting and 1/8 from three. LOSS. Someone should have made him stop shooting.

2010 game 5 against Boston. 15 points on 21% shooting!!! LOSS. The series was tied 2-2 until that game. That Lebron choke put the Cavs down 3-2, and they went on to lose the series.

2011 game 1 against Philadelphia. 21 points on 29% shooting.

Game 5 against Philadelphia. 16 points on 39% shooting.

Game 3 against Boston. 15 points on 38% shooting. LOSS.

Game 1 against Chicago. 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Finals against Dallas. Most epic choke job of all time. Game 3, 17 points.

Game 4, 8 points on 27% shooting. LOSS.

Game 5, 17 points. LOSS.

Game 6, 21 points and 6 turnovers. LOSS.

2013 game 2 against San Antonio. 17 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against San Antonio, 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Game 5 against San Antonio, 25 points on 36% shooting. LOSS.

2014 game 5 against Indiana. 7 points on 20% shooting. Whooaaaaaaaa! LOSS.

2015 game 1 against Chicago. 19 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.

Game 6 against Chicago. 15 points on 30% shooting.

Game 4 against Golden State. 20 points on 32% shooting.

2016 game 3 against Detroit. 20 points on 33% shooting.

Game 2 against Golden State. 19 points on 42% shooting. LOSS.

2017 game 3 against Boston. 11 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.

2018 game 1 against Indiana. 24 points on 41% shooting. 0% from three. LOSS.

Game 1 against Boston. 15 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.

2020 game 2 against Portland. 10 points on 36% shooting.

Game 1 against Houston. 20 points. LOSS.

Game 4 against Houston. 16 points on 41% shooting.

Game 1 against Denver. 15 points.

2021 game 1 against Phoenix. 18 points on 46% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against Phoenix. 21 points and 7 turnovers on 47% shooting.

Game 6 against Phoenix. 29 points on 11/26 shooting. ELIMINATION.

2023 game 5 against Memphis. 15 points on 29% shooting. 1-9 from three. LOSS.

Game 1 against Golden State. 22 points on 38% shooting. 1-8 from three.

Game 2 against Denver. 22 points. 0-6 from three. LOSS.

Game 4 against Denver. Wasted multiple possessions in 4th quarter, missed key shots, and blew the game-tying shot in the last possession. SWEPT.

2024 game 1 against Denver. 0 points in the fourth quarter of a close game. Actually, he had two points, but that was from an uncontested layup in the final minute of the game after Denver had already closed the game out. LOSS

Game 2 against Denver. The game is tied and the Lakers have the final possession. Instead of running the clock down, Lebron clanks a low-IQ three point shot, leaving Denver with plenty of time for a final possession. Murray, who is way more clutch than Lebron, makes the buzzer beater. LOSS.



If his career goes on for too many more years, I'll run out of character space for his choke jobs. :lol

Again this was already debunked. His RATIO of elite games/series is far higher than any other player outside of MJ. So you can pick out his bad games all you want, it doesn't change the fact that he has way more good ones. For every bad game he has, he has 10 good ones.

So yeah you are an idiot. You'll have to come up with something else because everything you've posted in this thread is wrong :lol

[StrongLurk]

Anyways back to the OP. Here is a quick summary of finals results below. Clearly MJ and Lebron are above the rest.

MJ: 6 gold medals
Lebron: 4 gold medals, 6 silver medals
Shaq: 3 gold medals, 2 silver medals
Duncan: 3 gold medals, 1 silver medal
Magic: 3 gold medals, 4 silver medals
Kareem: 2 gold medals, 4 silver medals
Kobe: 2 gold medals, 2 silver medals
Bird: 2 gold medals, 2 silver medals
Durant: 2 gold medals, 1 silver medal
Curry: 1 gold medal, 2 silver medals

[tpols]

Your "medal" rankings are also down right embarrassing as well.

Like... Curry has 1 Gold Medal? Because he didn't win FMVP over Iggy who averaged like 10ppg on the year while Steph was the league MVP?

Duncan's 2007 ring doesn't count as a Gold Medal because Tony Parker won FMVP?

Bird and Magics titles don't count as Gold Medal because Maxwell and Worthy had great Finals series?

Despite being his best championship playoff run ever Kobes 2001 15-1 superstar playoff run doesn't count in this criteria?

:oldlol:

OP, you are a certified clown.

[Full Court]

Ah I forgot you are just a troll. Weren't you the guy who initially had Kobe, Shaq, and Lebron outside of the top ten?

Lol. Another straw man. I have Kobe outside of the top ten. The other two are in. Nice try.

Here's a question for you: is it better to WIN the finals than to make it to the finals and not win?

[Full Court]

Again this was already debunked. His RATIO of elite games/series is far higher than any other player outside of MJ. So you can pick out his bad games all you want, it doesn't change the fact that he has way more good ones. For every bad game he has, he has 10 good ones.

So yeah you are an idiot. You'll have to come up with something else because everything you've posted in this thread is wrong :lol

"debunked"......:roll: Not hardly. Bronie fluffers denying it is hardly "debunking."

You make arbitray claims, that you're repeating from someone else, that the RATIO is better than other players, but you or anyone else have yet to prove it with data. I claimed that Lebron has the most choke jobs of any all time "great." Then I proved it. Then you guys come back and whine about "Bu-bu-but RATIOS!!!!" and the only one who even TRIED to counter that was 1987_Lakers, who then posted about five choke jobs from Larry Bird. Yep, a mere handful.

You guys lose this argument over and over and over. That's ok though. I'll keep setting you guys straight. ;)

[Full Court]

Your "medal" rankings are also down right embarrassing as well.

Like... Curry has 1 Gold Medal? Because he didn't win FMVP over Iggy who averaged like 10ppg on the year while Steph was the league MVP?

Duncan's 2007 ring doesn't count as a Gold Medal because Tony Parker won FMVP?

Bird and Magics titles don't count as Gold Medal because Maxwell and Worthy had great Finals series?

Despite being his best championship playoff run ever Kobes 2001 15-1 superstar playoff run doesn't count in this criteria?

:oldlol:

OP, you are a certified clown.

Lebron wouldn't even have gotten a gold medal this Olympics if Curry didn't carry him across the finish line. By the way, anyone know where Lebron was in the fourth quarters of the medal games???

[StrongLurk]

"debunked"......:roll: Not hardly. Bronie fluffers denying it is hardly "debunking."

You make arbitray claims, that you're repeating from someone else, that the RATIO is better than other players, but you or anyone else have yet to prove it with data. I claimed that Lebron has the most choke jobs of any all time "great." Then I proved it. Then you guys come back and whine about "Bu-bu-but RATIOS!!!!" and the only one who even TRIED to counter that was 1987_Lakers, who then posted about five choke jobs from Larry Bird. Yep, a mere handful.

You guys lose this argument over and over and over. That's ok though. I'll keep setting you guys straight. ;)

No one denied that Lebron has plenty of bad playoff games, but its literally because he has the MOST playoff games ever played.

Him having 35 bad playoff games out of 287 total games is not a big deal. You could probably find 35 bad playoff games by Kobe who only played 220 total playoff games.

You are just an idiot who doesn't seem to understand. You trying to claim Bird is a better playoff performer than Lebron just shows how dumb you are.

[StrongLurk]

Your "medal" rankings are also down right embarrassing as well.

Like... Curry has 1 Gold Medal? Because he didn't win FMVP over Iggy who averaged like 10ppg on the year while Steph was the league MVP?

Duncan's 2007 ring doesn't count as a Gold Medal because Tony Parker won FMVP?

Bird and Magics titles don't count as Gold Medal because Maxwell and Worthy had great Finals series?

Despite being his best championship playoff run ever Kobes 2001 15-1 superstar playoff run doesn't count in this criteria?

:oldlol:

OP, you are a certified clown.

When judging finals on an all-time scale, the FMVP is the key point.

Otherwise we can say something like this -> Scottie Pippen is 6-0 in the finals. He's the goat.

We need to differentiate the best player from those who weren't.

[Full Court]

No one denied that Lebron has plenty of bad playoff games, but its literally because he has the MOST playoff games ever played.

Him having 35 bad playoff games out of 287 total games is not a big deal. You could probably find 35 bad playoff games by Kobe who only played 220 total playoff games.

You are just an idiot who doesn't seem to understand.

Ohhhhhhhhhh yes it is lol. And it's more than 35. I posted them, so feel free to count.

And I have Lebron ranked ahead of Kobe, so if that's who you're using as your benchmark for comparison, it's telling.

[StrongLurk]

Ohhhhhhhhhh yes it is lol. And it's more than 35. I posted them, so feel free to count.

And I have Lebron ranked ahead of Kobe, so if that's who you're using as your benchmark for comparison, it's telling.

I included Bird too. Again you are dumb if you think Bird is a better playoff performer than Lebron.

I wouldn't even respond to your trolling if it wasn't so easy to disprove everything you say.

Here is what you are saying.

Lebron - 35 bad games out of 287 total games is worse than Larry Bird having 30 bad games out of 164 playoff games.

You are an idiot.

[Full Court]

I included Bird too. Again you are dumb if you think Bird is a better playoff performer than Lebron.

I wouldn't even respond to your trolling if it wasn't so easy to disprove everything you say.

Here is what you are saying.

Lebron - 35 bad games out of 287 total games is worse than Larry Bird having 30 bad games out of 164 playoff games.

You are an idiot.

Ok, then show me Larry Bird's 30 choke jobs.

[tpols]

Your "medal" rankings are also down right embarrassing as well.

Like... Curry has 1 Gold Medal? Because he didn't win FMVP over Iggy who averaged like 10ppg on the year while Steph was the league MVP?

Duncan's 2007 ring doesn't count as a Gold Medal because Tony Parker won FMVP?

Bird and Magics titles don't count as Gold Medal because Maxwell and Worthy had great Finals series?

Despite being his best championship playoff run ever Kobes 2001 15-1 superstar playoff run doesn't count in this criteria?

:oldlol:

OP, you are a certified clown.



When judging finals on an all-time scale, the FMVP is the key point.

Otherwise we can say something like this -> Scottie Pippen is 6-0 in the finals. He's the goat.

We need to differentiate the best player from those who weren't.

No it's absolutely not.

Magic, Bird, Duncan and Curry were all clearly better than Worthy, Maxwell, Parker, and Iggy on the year they won those rings respectively. And 2001 Kobe was easily > 2010 Kobe despite you counting the former as not counting, and the latter as worth Gold.

It's a retarded logic you're employing. Based on your logic Chauncey Billups has as many "Gold Medals" as Curry. :lol

Your criteria is just totally absurd and nonsensical on every level.

[StrongLurk]

Ok, then show me Larry Bird's 30 choke jobs.

You consider bad games to be choke jobs. Well, Larry has a ton of bad playoff games :lol.

[StrongLurk]

No it's absolutely not.

Magic, Bird, Duncan and Curry were all clearly better than Worthy, Maxwell, Parker, and Iggy on the year they won those rings respectively. And 2001 Kobe was easily > 2010 Kobe despite you counting the former as not counting, and the latter as worth Gold.

It's a retarded logic you're employing. Based on your logic Chauncey Billups has as many "Gold Medals" as Curry. :lol

Your criteria is just totally absurd and nonsensical on every level.

Got it, so you must think Pip and Jordan are equal since they are both 6-0 in the finals.

[Full Court]

Ok, then show me Larry Bird's 30 choke jobs.


You consider bad games to be choke jobs. Well, Larry has a ton of bad playoff games :lol.

Looks like OP is tapping out. :roll:

To paraphrase a former president: "It's not that Bronie fluffers don't know anything, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."

[Gudo]

Looks like OP is tapping out. :roll:

To paraphrase a former president: "It's not that Bronie fluffers don't know anything, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."

This is a team sport. The onus is on the player, as part of his quest for GOAT, to BE in a dynasty and hold it together. Not jump shit every time then repeat the recruitment process. One can lose even with a dynastic team (Bird, Magic, Curry, KD), but that is why MJ's precedence is ridiculous because once he had his team come together, he did not allow themselves to lose. I mean, two 3peats? The bar has been set this way. If this didn't happen, then Magic's could have been the bar.

[Hey Yo]

When you put yourself in the GOAT debate, there is an inherent high expectation that comes with it. Lebron has played in a number of loaded teams (a lot of which he handpicked), and the benefit of a weak conference. But the ability to play consistently when the stakes are highest (finals), is a huge mark of a great player.
Which lot of players did James handpick and just magically put on his team?

[StrongLurk]

Looks like OP is tapping out. :roll:

To paraphrase a former president: "It's not that Bronie fluffers don't know anything, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."

Playoff games below 15 game score for Lebron and Larry.

Lebron: 37 games out of 287 games

Larry: 40 games out of 164 games

Larry has MORE bad games despite playing 123 less playoff games :lol. It's just too easy because you are a moron.

[Full Court]

Playoff games below 15 game score for Lebron and Larry.

Lebron: 37 games out of 287 games

Larry: 40 games out of 164 games

Larry has MORE bad games despite playing 123 less playoff games :lol. It's just too easy because you are a moron.

:roll::roll:

Playoff games below 15 game score? Really??

Try again, silly boy. The more you try to weasel your way out of this dumb thread, the worse you make yourself look.

I'll ask one last time. Show us Larry Bird's choke jobs. You know, like I did for Lebron, AKA "LeShrivel."

[StrongLurk]

:roll::roll:

Playoff games below 15 game score? Really??

Try again, silly boy. The more you try to weasel your way out of this dumb thread, the worse you make yourself look.

I'll ask one last time. Show us Larry Bird's choke jobs. You know, like I did for Lebron, AKA "LeShrivel."

Your list of Lebron chokes are literally just you posting stats from bad games. So from what YOU ARE DOING, we can consider games with less than 15 game score by superstars in the playoffs to be bad games. So I just easily proved you wrong. Larry has a way higher frequency of bad games (chokes) in the playoffs (and more chokes overall).

There is literally no reason for me to list them out 1 by 1 for Larry. 40 bad games is 40 bad games. YOU GOT NOTHING BUDDY. Literally everything you claimed is proven false in this thread.

[sdot_thadon]

Playoff games below 15 game score for Lebron and Larry.

Lebron: 37 games out of 287 games

Larry: 40 games out of 164 games

Larry has MORE bad games despite playing 123 less playoff games :lol. It's just too easy because you are a moron.

Yikes. And doesn't Bird have a finals where he had 15 on 40% from the field?

[Full Court]

Your list of Lebron chokes are literally just you posting stats from bad games. So from what YOU ARE DOING, we can consider games with less than 15 game score by superstars in the playoffs to be bad games. So I just easily proved you wrong. Larry has a way higher frequency of bad games (chokes) in the playoffs (and more chokes overall).

There is literally no reason for me to list them out 1 by 1 for Larry. 40 bad games is 40 bad games. YOU GOT NOTHING BUDDY. Literally everything you claimed is proven false in this thread.

I put up the data. You failed to. "Literally no reason for me to..."

Meaning you have nothing and you know it.

Full Court - 126

Bronies - 0

By the way, this thread can be considered a choke job. :lol

[StrongLurk]

I put up the data. You failed to. "Literally no reason for me to..."

Meaning you have nothing and you know it.

Full Court - 126

Bronies - 0

By the way, this thread can be considered a choke job. :lol

This is the data you moron...

Playoff games below 15 game score for Lebron and Larry.

Lebron: 37 games out of 287 games

Larry: 40 games out of 164 games

Larry has MORE bad games despite playing 123 less playoff games.

Can you read? Seriously, you are acting like a 12 year old.

If you WANT to read them one by one for some reason, here is a link. Just sort by game score little guy... https://www.basketball-reference.com...elog-playoffs/

[Full Court]

This is the data you moron...

Playoff games below 15 game score for Lebron and Larry.

Lebron: 37 games out of 287 games

Larry: 40 games out of 164 games

Larry has MORE bad games despite playing 123 less playoff games.

Can you read? Seriously, you are acting like a 12 year old.

If you WANT to read them one by one for some reason, here is a link. Just sort by game score little guy... https://www.basketball-reference.com...elog-playoffs/

Nice faulty link, genius. :roll:

That aside, I'm just astounded that you would use a single stat, GAME SCORE nonetheless, with no interpretive context, to try to make your case. It makes me wonder if you're actually a Lebron hater who's trying to make Bronie fluffers look bad, or if you're actually that dumb.

So that's what you came up with after all that time? "Bu-bu-bu-but Larry had more games with a game score less than 15!!!! :cry: So Lebron CAN'T be a choker!!!!"

:roll:

You can't make this stuff up.

[StrongLurk]

Nice faulty link, genius. :roll:

That aside, I'm just astounded that you would use a single stat, GAME SCORE nonetheless, with no interpretive context, to try to make your case. It makes me wonder if you're actually a Lebron hater who's trying to make Bronie fluffers look bad, or if you're actually that dumb.

So that's what you came up with after all that time? "Bu-bu-bu-but Larry had more games with a game score less than 15!!!! :cry: So Lebron CAN'T be a choker!!!!"

:roll:

You can't make this stuff up.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/birdla01/gamelog-playoffs/

I defeated your argument so easily. Sort by gamescore and go through the list yourself and see all the chokes/bad games for Bird. You thought Bird was a better playoff performer, but he has twice the rate of chokes as Lebron :roll:

I mean you literally have nothing buddy. You tried to act like Lebron is a playoff choker when he is literally the second best playoff performer of all time behind MJ.

Feel free to enlighten me though. What "criteria" do you want to use to determine chokes? Happy to compare Lebron to anybody using that "criteria" since we know I easily debunked your initial criteria for "chokes".

[Full Court]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/birdla01/gamelog-playoffs/

I defeated your argument so easily. Sort by gamescore and go through the list yourself and see all the chokes/bad games for Bird. You thought Bird was a better playoff performer, but he has twice the rate of chokes as Lebron :roll:

I mean you literally have nothing buddy. You tried to act like Lebron is a playoff choker when he is literally the second best playoff performer of all time behind MJ.

Feel free to enlighten me though. What "criteria" do you want to use to determine chokes? Happy to compare Lebron to anybody using that "criteria" since we know I easily debunked your initial criteria for "chokes".

Anyone who bases an argument on a single stat with no context has no clue what they're talking about. When you only look at game score, you're counting games where Bird played less than 20 minutes. I'm sure you didn't realize that, because you don't know how to actually use advanced stats.

:biggums:

You get a C- for effort....






but you still lose.

[StrongLurk]

Anyone who bases an argument on a single stat with no context has no clue what they're talking about. When you only look at game score, you're counting games where Bird played less than 20 minutes. I'm sure you didn't realize that, because you don't know how to actually use advanced stats.

:biggums:

You get a C- for effort....






but you still lose.

Gamescore is literally a boxscore summary stat. If a player has a bad game, they are going to have a bad gamescore. Is that too complicated for you? How about you go look up the gamescores of all those Lebron games you posted. There is a high chance they are less than 15 you moron.

Oh by the way, only 2 of the 40 games where Larry posted sub-15 gamescore were 20 minutes or less. The rest of them were between 30-46 minutes per game.

God, it's just too easy to disprove everything you say or every shitty troll post you make.

[Full Court]

Gamescore is literally a boxscore summary stat. If a player has a bad game, they are going to have a bad gamescore. Is that too complicated for you? How about you go look up the gamescores of all those Lebron games you posted. There is a high chance they are less than 15 you moron.

Oh by the way, only 2 of the 40 games where Larry posted sub-15 gamescore were 20 minutes or less. The rest of them were between 30-46 minutes per game.

God, it's just too easy to disprove everything you say or every shitty troll post you make.

"We can tell what a choke is.....by the GAME SCORE!!!!"

:roll:

And this, folks, is why we make fun of Bronie fluffers. They're just not intelligent people.

[StrongLurk]

"We can tell what a choke is.....by the GAME SCORE!!!!"

:roll:

And this, folks, is why we make fun of Bronie fluffers. They're just not intelligent people.

Newsflash, you were the one claiming Lebron had a bunch of chokes and then 37 out of the 42 "games" you listed were literally just random boxscore numbers, often not even the whole boxscore. Only 5 of them did you try to add any context, and even with those you are cherry picking :roll:

I'm literally using YOUR logic for what a "choke" is, which I then easily disproved all of your statements using the logic YOU gave.

I know you are just trolling but you are legit bad at that too.

By the way, I am still waiting on your "criteria" for what a choke is. You still haven't given me anything except for mostly just random box score stats from Lebron games. I will keep waiting on it.

[Full Court]

Newsflash, you were the one claiming Lebron had a bunch of chokes and then 37 out of the 42 "games" you listed were literally just random boxscore numbers, often not even the whole boxscore. Only 5 of them did you try to add any context, and even with those you are cherry picking :roll:

I'm literally using YOUR logic for what a "choke" is, which I then easily disproved all of your statements using the logic YOU gave.

I know you are just trolling but you are legit bad at that too.

By the way, I am still waiting on your "criteria" for what a choke is. You still haven't given me anything except for mostly just random box score stats from Lebron games. I will keep waiting on it.

Lebron has, in fact, the most choke jobs in the history of the sport. And I proved it. All you can come back with is a single advanced stat.

Here's an illustration how dumb it is using a single, context-less stat: Russell Westbrook has more triple doubles than Lebron James. Therefore Westbrook is the better player and should be ranked higher.

See how that works?

:roll:

[StrongLurk]

Lebron has, in fact, the most choke jobs in the history of the sport. And I proved it. All you can come back with is a single advanced stat.

Here's an illustration how dumb it is using a single, context-less stat: Russell Westbrook has more triple doubles than Lebron James. Therefore Westbrook is the better player and should be ranked higher.

See how that works?

:roll:

Still waiting on your "criteria" for a playoff choke. What are these specific "chokes" Lebron has? We need a definition from you.

It's ironic that you made a big fuss about me providing one (less than 15 gamescore), yet you have yet to provide one. Remember, your long list of games for Lebron is mostly just random box score numbers with no additional context or info (37 out of 42 games were random stats).
'
I know you are dumb, but humor me here. I am enjoying this.

[8Ball]

Thread Cliffs:

LeBron at 39 years old vastly outperforms Jordan did in the olympics when Jordan was in his prime.

1992 international competition was literal dog shit, Jordan stacked his team up to the fullest and Jordan still played like crap.

LeBron gets the Olympics MVP at age 39 while Jordan at 39 was struggling to get a starting job on the crappy wizards team.




More evidence was presented this summer and the verdict is LeBron >>>>> Jordan.

[SouBeachTalents]

Why is it so hard for people to use context with legitimately anything :lol

Criticizing LeBron's Finals record when he was both balling out and being the underdog in most of them, including to a ridiculous degree in 3-4 of them, was always moronic. As is bringing up 10 Finals appearances without mentioning how weak the conference was for a lot of the years he made it out East.

I also completely disagree with OP's criteria, there are way too many examples of inferior players, even role players, winning FMVP over top 10 caliber players. How you play in the Finals is obviously important, but summing up a 100 game season entirely on the basis of a 4-7 game sample size is ridiculous. Kareem/Bird/Magic/Duncan/Curry all had championship years where they were the clear cut best player on their squads, them losing out on FMVP either due to a fluke sample size or flat out bad judgement by the media is a terrible way to evaluate players.

People continue to put WAY too much stock on team accomplishments to evaluate individual players, when it's how you perform in the playoffs that should always be the most important criteria. I've said it before, but LeBron not winning in '09, '17, or '18 doesn't invalidate how well he played, nor does it mean Duncan in '07 or Curry in '15 played better than he did because their teams won the title.

[Full Court]

Still waiting on your "criteria" for a playoff choke. What are these specific "chokes" Lebron has? We need a definition from you.

It's ironic that you made a big fuss about me providing one (less than 15 gamescore), yet you have yet to provide one. Remember, your long list of games for Lebron is mostly just random box score numbers with no additional context or info (37 out of 42 games were random stats).
'
I know you are dumb, but humor me here. I am enjoying this.

Lol. I took the time to put an explanation for each game. Go back and read my post. Or would you like me to post it again because it's too hard to find?

And I'm STILL waiting for you to show me just one person who claimed not making the finals is better than making the finals. You claimed there were "millions" of people who said it.

This thread isn't looking great for you.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmmauk.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F02%2FAnderson-Silva.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=81aad1c2988c6cb5d81d6eeb8a318d25a37d147b0ab830 ab63351c541c326ad1&ipo=images

[StrongLurk]

Lol. I took the time to put an explanation for each game. Go back and read my post. Or would you like me to post it again because it's too hard to find?

And I'm STILL waiting for you to show me just one person who claimed not making the finals is better than making the finals. You claimed there were "millions" of people who said it.

This thread isn't looking great for you.


Where is your explanation for each game? I see 5 "attempts" at context our of 42 attempts. Looks like your the one choking here :roll:

2007 game 1 against Detroit. 10 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Game 2 against Detroit. 19 points on 37% shooting. LOSS.

Game 1 against the Spurs. 14 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.

2008 game 1 against Boston. 12 points and 10 turnovers on 11% shooting. 0/6 from three. LOSS.

Game 2 against Boston. 21 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against Boston. 21 points on 31% shooting.

Game 4 against Boston. 21 points on 35% shooting.

2009 game 3 against Orlando. He scored 41 points, but on absolutely horrendous efficiency. 39% shooting and 1/8 from three. LOSS. Someone should have made him stop shooting.

2010 game 5 against Boston. 15 points on 21% shooting!!! LOSS. The series was tied 2-2 until that game. That Lebron choke put the Cavs down 3-2, and they went on to lose the series.

2011 game 1 against Philadelphia. 21 points on 29% shooting.

Game 5 against Philadelphia. 16 points on 39% shooting.

Game 3 against Boston. 15 points on 38% shooting. LOSS.

Game 1 against Chicago. 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Finals against Dallas. Most epic choke job of all time. Game 3, 17 points.

Game 4, 8 points on 27% shooting. LOSS.

Game 5, 17 points. LOSS.

Game 6, 21 points and 6 turnovers. LOSS.

2013 game 2 against San Antonio. 17 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against San Antonio, 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Game 5 against San Antonio, 25 points on 36% shooting. LOSS.

2014 game 5 against Indiana. 7 points on 20% shooting. Whooaaaaaaaa! LOSS.

2015 game 1 against Chicago. 19 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.

Game 6 against Chicago. 15 points on 30% shooting.

Game 4 against Golden State. 20 points on 32% shooting.

2016 game 3 against Detroit. 20 points on 33% shooting.

Game 2 against Golden State. 19 points on 42% shooting. LOSS.

2017 game 3 against Boston. 11 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.

2018 game 1 against Indiana. 24 points on 41% shooting. 0% from three. LOSS.

Game 1 against Boston. 15 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.

2020 game 2 against Portland. 10 points on 36% shooting.

Game 1 against Houston. 20 points. LOSS.

Game 4 against Houston. 16 points on 41% shooting.

Game 1 against Denver. 15 points.

2021 game 1 against Phoenix. 18 points on 46% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against Phoenix. 21 points and 7 turnovers on 47% shooting.

Game 6 against Phoenix. 29 points on 11/26 shooting. ELIMINATION.

2023 game 5 against Memphis. 15 points on 29% shooting. 1-9 from three. LOSS.

Game 1 against Golden State. 22 points on 38% shooting. 1-8 from three.

Game 2 against Denver. 22 points. 0-6 from three. LOSS.

Game 4 against Denver. Wasted multiple possessions in 4th quarter, missed key shots, and blew the game-tying shot in the last possession. SWEPT.

2024 game 1 against Denver. 0 points in the fourth quarter of a close game. Actually, he had two points, but that was from an uncontested layup in the final minute of the game after Denver had already closed the game out. LOSS

Game 2 against Denver. The game is tied and the Lakers have the final possession. Instead of running the clock down, Lebron clanks a low-IQ three point shot, leaving Denver with plenty of time for a final possession. Murray, who is way more clutch than Lebron, makes the buzzer beater. LOSS.

[StrongLurk]

Why is it so hard for people to use context with legitimately anything :lol

Criticizing LeBron's Finals record when he was both balling out and being the underdog in most of them, including to a ridiculous degree in 3-4 of them, was always moronic. As is bringing up 10 Finals appearances without mentioning how weak the conference was for a lot of the years he made it out East.

I also completely disagree with OP's criteria, there are way too many examples of inferior players, even role players, winning FMVP over top 10 caliber players. How you play in the Finals is obviously important, but summing up a 100 game season entirely on the basis of a 4-7 game sample size is ridiculous. Kareem/Bird/Magic/Duncan/Curry all had championship years where they were the clear cut best player on their squads, them losing out on FMVP either due to a fluke sample size or flat out bad judgement by the media is a terrible way to evaluate players.

People continue to put WAY too much stock on team accomplishments to evaluate individual players, when it's how you perform in the playoffs that should always be the most important criteria. I've said it before, but LeBron not winning in '09, '17, or '18 doesn't invalidate how well he played, nor does it mean Duncan in '07 or Curry in '15 played better than he did because their teams won the title.

The whole point is just to show that claiming finals losses are "bad" is a ridiculous claim. Even if you are trying to compare to Jordan, it's still a bad argument because Jordan had plenty of years where he never even made the finals.

You agree with my core claim, even if my gold medal qualification (FMVP) might have a few detractors.

[Axe]

What if jordan is the one who had a losing record in the finals? It's likely that he would be treated much the very same way. :confusedshrug:

[Full Court]

Where is your explanation for each game? I see 5 "attempts" at context our of 42 attempts. Looks like your the one choking here :roll:

2007 game 1 against Detroit. 10 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Game 2 against Detroit. 19 points on 37% shooting. LOSS.

Game 1 against the Spurs. 14 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.

2008 game 1 against Boston. 12 points and 10 turnovers on 11% shooting. 0/6 from three. LOSS.

Game 2 against Boston. 21 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against Boston. 21 points on 31% shooting.

Game 4 against Boston. 21 points on 35% shooting.

2009 game 3 against Orlando. He scored 41 points, but on absolutely horrendous efficiency. 39% shooting and 1/8 from three. LOSS. Someone should have made him stop shooting.

2010 game 5 against Boston. 15 points on 21% shooting!!! LOSS. The series was tied 2-2 until that game. That Lebron choke put the Cavs down 3-2, and they went on to lose the series.

2011 game 1 against Philadelphia. 21 points on 29% shooting.

Game 5 against Philadelphia. 16 points on 39% shooting.

Game 3 against Boston. 15 points on 38% shooting. LOSS.

Game 1 against Chicago. 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Finals against Dallas. Most epic choke job of all time. Game 3, 17 points.

Game 4, 8 points on 27% shooting. LOSS.

Game 5, 17 points. LOSS.

Game 6, 21 points and 6 turnovers. LOSS.

2013 game 2 against San Antonio. 17 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against San Antonio, 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Game 5 against San Antonio, 25 points on 36% shooting. LOSS.

2014 game 5 against Indiana. 7 points on 20% shooting. Whooaaaaaaaa! LOSS.

2015 game 1 against Chicago. 19 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.

Game 6 against Chicago. 15 points on 30% shooting.

Game 4 against Golden State. 20 points on 32% shooting.

2016 game 3 against Detroit. 20 points on 33% shooting.

Game 2 against Golden State. 19 points on 42% shooting. LOSS.

2017 game 3 against Boston. 11 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.

2018 game 1 against Indiana. 24 points on 41% shooting. 0% from three. LOSS.

Game 1 against Boston. 15 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.

2020 game 2 against Portland. 10 points on 36% shooting.

Game 1 against Houston. 20 points. LOSS.

Game 4 against Houston. 16 points on 41% shooting.

Game 1 against Denver. 15 points.

2021 game 1 against Phoenix. 18 points on 46% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against Phoenix. 21 points and 7 turnovers on 47% shooting.

Game 6 against Phoenix. 29 points on 11/26 shooting. ELIMINATION.

2023 game 5 against Memphis. 15 points on 29% shooting. 1-9 from three. LOSS.

Game 1 against Golden State. 22 points on 38% shooting. 1-8 from three.

Game 2 against Denver. 22 points. 0-6 from three. LOSS.

Game 4 against Denver. Wasted multiple possessions in 4th quarter, missed key shots, and blew the game-tying shot in the last possession. SWEPT.

2024 game 1 against Denver. 0 points in the fourth quarter of a close game. Actually, he had two points, but that was from an uncontested layup in the final minute of the game after Denver had already closed the game out. LOSS

Game 2 against Denver. The game is tied and the Lakers have the final possession. Instead of running the clock down, Lebron clanks a low-IQ three point shot, leaving Denver with plenty of time for a final possession. Murray, who is way more clutch than Lebron, makes the buzzer beater. LOSS.

8 points on 27% shooting isn't an "explanation" to this guy.^

:lol Can't make this stuff up.

[StrongLurk]

8 points on 27% shooting isn't an "explanation" to this guy.^

:lol Can't make this stuff up.

No wonder you were banned. I sent you a list of Bird's bad games, with full boxscores (more than what you provided) and you claimed there was no "context", yet your weak attempts in your Lebron list have less context :roll:

Just go home bro, your done. I proved Larry has more chokes than Lebron while playing over 100 less playoff games.

[8Ball]

No wonder you were banned. I sent you a list of Bird's bad games, with full boxscores (more than what you provided) and you claimed there was no "context", yet your weak attempts in your Lebron list have less context :roll:

Just go home bro, your done. I proved Larry has more chokes than Lebron while playing over 100 less playoff games.

lol

[Full Court]

No wonder you were banned. I sent you a list of Bird's bad games, with full boxscores (more than what you provided) and you claimed there was no "context", yet your weak attempts in your Lebron list have less context :roll:

Just go home bro, your done. I proved Larry has more chokes than Lebron while playing over 100 less playoff games.

Lebron had plenty of bad games that I didn't list as chokes. That's why I took the time to explain each one to you.

But apparently you can't see the difference.

"GamescorE!!!!!!!!"

:roll:

:biggums:

[8Ball]

So LeBron is a superior playoff performer vs Larry Bird.... And Larry still wiped the floor with Jordan in the playoffs and used Jordan as a toilet rag.




Jordan did not win 1 playoff game vs Larry Bird. Not 1. Can the so called "goat" win just 1 playoff game vs Larry Bird?

[Full Court]

So LeBron is a superior playoff performer vs Larry Bird.... And Larry still wiped the floor with Jordan in the playoffs and used Jordan as a toilet rag.




Jordan did not win 1 playoff game vs Larry Bird. Not 1.

After 25 years....


Jordan is still the consensus GOAT.

:lebronamazed:

Read it and weep. :lol

Hey, rememeber that time you thought that telling everyone that you rented a 1,300 square foot apartment was going to impress them? :roll:

[Axe]

LeBron has 3 golds, 1 bronze in the olympics.

Jordan has 2.


LeBron also better olympic performer and olympic MVP at age 39.


LeBron is a vastly better performer in he olympics vs tougher competition than Jordan was.




Jordan worship is 100% nostalgia at this point.
Two what? But two, as in...

https://c.tenor.com/1G4CwthuhgIAAAAC/tenor.gif

[Full Court]

No wonder you were banned. I sent you a list of Bird's bad games, with full boxscores (more than what you provided) and you claimed there was no "context", yet your weak attempts in your Lebron list have less context :roll:

Just go home bro, your done. I proved Larry has more chokes than Lebron while playing over 100 less playoff games.

Here's another fun fact for you: Seeing how the illustrious GAME SCORE is the end-all-be-all stat, did you know that Lebron is not even in the top ten for highest playoff game score? And barely cracks the top 20, behind the likes of non-chokers such as Jamal Murray? Did you know that?



Must suck to be a Bronie....

[StrongLurk]

Here's another fun fact for you: Seeing how the illustrious GAME SCORE is the end-all-be-all stat, did you know that Lebron is not even in the top ten for highest playoff game score? And barely cracks the top 20, behind the likes of non-chokers such as Jamal Murray? Did you know that?



Must suck to be a Bronie....

Lebron is routinely considered to be in the top 2-3 all time. I don't think the Lebron stans are struggling :lol

Also, Glad to see you have seen the light and recognized gamescore. Did you know Lebron has a top 3 playoff gamescore average of all time? That is insane considering he also has the most playoff games every played. He has 5 of the top 50 gamescore playoff games of all time, and the highest game score ever recorded in a finals game. Only MJ has a higher average based on all retired players.

Meanwhile, poor Larry Bird mustered up one single game in the top 100 for game score, which is only the 92nd highest game score in the playoffs :cry:

[Airupthere]

To all the teams that won silver in the NBA, they all must have felt really good about placing second every time. The NBA should start celebrating finals losses.

[StrongLurk]

To all the teams that won silver in the NBA, they all must have felt really good about placing second every time. The NBA should start celebrating finals losses.

No problem, we can ignore silvers and look at the players who won championships as the best player and best player specifically in the finals.

Here are the top 2 in the 3-point era.

MJ - 6
Lebron - 4

:confusedshrug:

[Full Court]

Lebron is routinely considered to be in the top 2-3 all time. I don't think the Lebron stans are struggling :lol

Also, Glad to see you have seen the light and recognized gamescore. Did you know Lebron has a top 3 playoff gamescore average of all time? That is insane considering he also has the most playoff games every played. He has 5 of the top 50 gamescore playoff games of all time, and the highest game score ever recorded in a finals game. Only MJ has a higher average based on all retired players.

Meanwhile, poor Larry Bird mustered up one single game in the top 100 for game score, which is only the 92nd highest game score in the playoffs :cry:

Lol at this guy being stuck on game score.

Let me educate you some more.

Did you know that Larry Bird is considered one of the clutchest players of all time?

Meanwhile, did you know that Lebron has the most choke jobs of all time, including the most epic choke job in the history of the sport?

Yes, Lebron has lots of great playoff performances, but they don't erase his choke jobs no matter how much you wish they do.


"Bu-bu-bu-bu-bu-but GAME SCORE!!!!!! :cry:"

[Hey Yo]

To all the teams that won silver in the NBA, they all must have felt really good about placing second every time. The NBA should start celebrating finals losses.

To play for championship or not to play for a championship.... what's your answer?

[Full Court]

To play for championship or not to play for a championship.... what's your answer?

Dumb question. Here's another one:

To play for a championship or to win a championship...What's your answer?

[8Ball]

Lebron is routinely considered to be in the top 2-3 all time. I don't think the Lebron stans are struggling :lol

Also, Glad to see you have seen the light and recognized gamescore. Did you know Lebron has a top 3 playoff gamescore average of all time? That is insane considering he also has the most playoff games every played. He has 5 of the top 50 gamescore playoff games of all time, and the highest game score ever recorded in a finals game. Only MJ has a higher average based on all retired players.

Meanwhile, poor Larry Bird mustered up one single game in the top 100 for game score, which is only the 92nd highest game score in the playoffs :cry:

Since we are going by game score.

LeBron's game 6 vs Warriors in 2016 is the highest game score recorded in NBA finals game.

[8Ball]

Two what? But two, as in...




Jordan only has 2 olympic gold medals.


Jordan's first olympic attendance was 1980, he finally retired for good in 2002. So Olympic wise, only 2 gold medals in 22 years.


LeBron 3 golds, 1 bronze in 20 years. LeBron is the vastly superior Olympic player than Jordan.

[Full Court]

Lebron did it.

Finally. Been waiting 25 years for someone to surpass Jordan and it happened in my lifetime.

And yet.....Jordan is STILL consensus GOAT. I mean, it's not even close. That has to hurt!

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2393113


https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.tenor.com%2Fimages%2F4d123 d1f816aae8a29f65aa66fa01b14%2Ftenor.gif%3Fitemid%3 D17171624&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=a321a10848931379a4a84b60800371213700f5528c1194 27c0363ac7a5ebd1f8&ipo=images

Don't worry, maybe Wembanyama will finally do it.

[StrongLurk]

Lol at this guy being stuck on game score.

Let me educate you some more.

Did you know that Larry Bird is considered one of the clutchest players of all time?

Meanwhile, did you know that Lebron has the most choke jobs of all time, including the most epic choke job in the history of the sport?

Yes, Lebron has lots of great playoff performances, but they don't erase his choke jobs no matter how much you wish they do.


"Bu-bu-bu-bu-bu-but GAME SCORE!!!!!! :cry:"

We already disproved your claim that Lebron has the most chokes of all time. By the way Lebron has the most game winners and clutch shots of all time in the playoffs. Lebron also has the highest career 4th quarter ppg average in NBA history.

Sorry buddy, Lebron is factually one of the most clutch playoff performers of all time. Your low-IQ trolling doesn't change reality.

Feel free to show me the data the proves Larry is one of the clutchest players of all time. Keep coming back to me. You are an easy punching bag.

[Full Court]

We already disproved your claim that Lebron has the most chokes of all time. By the way Lebron has the most game winners and clutch shots of all time in the playoffs. Lebron also has the highest career 4th quarter ppg average in NBA history.

Sorry buddy, Lebron is factually one of the most clutch playoff performers of all time. Your low-IQ trolling doesn't change reality.

Feel free to show me the data the proves Larry is one of the clutchest players of all time. Keep coming back to me. You are an easy punching bag.

Nope. He doesn't. That's misinformation by people who twist the meaning of "clutch."

I've had a standing challenge to Bronie fluffers to show me someone who has more chokes than Lebron. Nobody's done it. I guess the name "LeShrivel" didn't just come out of nowhere.

So sorry. :confusedshrug:

[StrongLurk]

Nope. He doesn't. That's misinformation by people who twist the meaning of "clutch."

I've had a standing challenge to Bronie fluffers to show me someone who has more chokes than Lebron. Nobody's done it. I guess the name "LeShrivel" didn't just come out of nowhere.

So sorry. :confusedshrug:

I already showed you Bird had more despite playing over 120 LESS games. Other players like Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, and the majority of the players who have played the most playoff games have more chokes than Lebron :lol. Only MJ has a better ratio of good playoff games to chokes.

Also you are really struggling by claiming "game winning shots" aren't clutch :lol

You have yet to give everyone your criteria/definition of chokes and clutch. You've shown no other data either to compare to your dumbass Lebron list.

Idk man, at this point I am getting bored. Sure I keep proving you wrong and even giving you an opportunity to make your claims better, but you literally aren't doing anything. It's lame and I am bored AF now with you. Like I said in the beginning, your entire premise is dumb since you are only trying to compare "volume" instead of "ratio" (i.e how many games played).

[Full Court]

I already showed you Bird had more despite playing over 120 LESS games. Other players like Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, and the majority of the players who have played the most playoff games have more chokes than Lebron :lol. Only MJ has a better ratio of good playoff games to chokes.

Also you are really struggling by claiming "game winning shots" aren't clutch :lol

You have yet to give everyone your criteria/definition of chokes and clutch. You've shown no other data either to compare to your dumbass Lebron list.

Idk man, at this point I am getting bored. Sure I keep proving you wrong and even giving you an opportunity to make your claims better, but you literally aren't doing anything. It's lame and I am bored AF now with you. Like I said in the beginning, your entire premise is dumb since you are only trying to compare "volume" instead of "ratio" (i.e how many games played).

Lol. No, you showed me that you have no clue how to see beyind the raw number of a stat. And you clearly have no clue what choking is.

Here, let me educate you some more. You'll thank me later.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3lAuohZvnE




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JphetiuFDak

[StrongLurk]

Lol. No, you showed me that you have no clue how to see beyind the raw number of a stat. And you clearly have no clue what choking is.

Here, let me educate you some more. You'll thank me later.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3lAuohZvnE




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JphetiuFDak

I can tell you struggled to graduation high school...if you even managed to do that.

[Full Court]

I can tell you struggled to graduation high school...if you even managed to do that.

Oh the irony.....:roll:

I see that you refuse to educate yourself.

Very closed minded. :confusedshrug:

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RFoVbZKSgI

If it was LeBron, "What a choker"

[Full Court]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RFoVbZKSgI

If it was LeBron, "What a choker"

Well, I have in fact demonstrated that Lebron has the most choke jobs of all time.

Excpet of course for Tom Brady.


:roll:

[StrongLurk]

Well, I have in fact demonstrated that Lebron has the most choke jobs of all time.

Excpet of course for Tom Brady.


:roll:

You haven't demonstrated anything because you still haven't defined what a choke is or given any specific criteria that we can use to compare players.

Meanwhile everyone else has given specific items and info to show Lebron is indeed clutch. We are waiting on that criteria of yours.

Also that fact that you are comparing Lebron to Tom Brady is well...interesting. Hey if you want to say he and Lebron are the GOATs then go ahead.

Also got my thread to 100 comments and go to bodybag Full Court about a dozen times. Feels good.

[Axe]

After 25 years....


Jordan is still the consensus GOAT.

:lebronamazed:

Read it and weep. :lol

Hey, rememeber that time you thought that telling everyone that you rented a 1,300 square foot apartment was going to impress them? :roll:

Well, I have in fact demonstrated that Lebron has the most choke jobs of all time.

Excpet of course for Tom Brady.


:roll:
:facepalm

[Full Court]

You haven't demonstrated anything because you still haven't defined what a choke is or given any specific criteria that we can use to compare players.

Meanwhile everyone else has given specific items and info to show Lebron is indeed clutch. We are waiting on that criteria of yours.

Also that fact that you are comparing Lebron to Tom Brady is well...interesting. Hey if you want to say he and Lebron are the GOATs then go ahead.

Also got my thread to 100 comments and go to bodybag Full Court about a dozen times. Feels good.

7 pages into this thread and you still haven't been able to show a single person that's ever said not making the finals was better than making it.

Which was the whole premise of your thread.

And you got DESTROYED.

Here's a serious question. Who has more choke jobs, you or Lebron?

[StrongLurk]

7 pages into this thread and you still haven't been able to show a single person that's ever said not making the finals was better than making it.

Which was the whole premise of your thread.

And you got DESTROYED.

Here's a serious question. Who has more choke jobs, you or Lebron?

There are many people who think a 4-0 finals record is more impressive then a 4-6 finals record. You know this but just want to keep posting for some reason.

Many people think MJ is goat for the simple reason that he went 6-0 in the finals. While impressive, if you asked these people if it would be better for MJ to have a 6-2 finals record, they would often say no.

[Full Court]

There are many people who think a 4-0 finals record is more impressive then a 4-6 finals record. You know this but just want to keep posting for some reason.

Many people think MJ is goat for the simple reason that he went 6-0 in the finals. While impressive, if you asked these people if it would be better for MJ to have a 6-2 finals record, they would often say no.

So your argument is assuming what some imaginary people WOULD say, but have not actually said.

Ok.

[StrongLurk]

So your argument is assuming what some imaginary people WOULD say, but have not actually said.

Ok.

Not imaginary, very real people all the time. You must live under a rock :roll:

Keep coming back to me though. Love to see my thread explode.

[Airupthere]

There are many people who think a 4-0 finals record is more impressive then a 4-6 finals record. You know this but just want to keep posting for some reason.

Many people think MJ is goat for the simple reason that he went 6-0 in the finals. While impressive, if you asked these people if it would be better for MJ to have a 6-2 finals record, they would often say no.

The problem with being satisfied in just reaching the finals with lebron is this. He went to superteam in MIA that was so dominant and unprecedented that even bron boldly predicted not 7, not 8 championships. They knew they broke something. Only to go 2/4. You can blame Wade or Bosh all you want but if you are claiming a stake at being GOAT, part of that responsibility is driving the team to win when you are already poised to win. Lebron did not exhibit that. Not making the finals while clearly not having the personnel or team make up is understandable. Losing in the finals, when you already have the tools and then some more, is what's not acceptable and should not be celebrated as a "silver".

[Full Court]

Not imaginary, very real people all the time. You must live under a rock :roll:

Keep coming back to me though. Love to see my thread explode.

Still waiting for you to show me a single one.

If you could, you would have. You're just making yourself look stupid and desperate lol.

[StrongLurk]

The problem with being satisfied in just reaching the finals with lebron is this. He went to superteam in MIA that was so dominant and unprecedented that even bron boldly predicted not 7, not 8 championships. They knew they broke something. Only to go 2/4. You can blame Wade or Bosh all you want but if you are claiming a stake at being GOAT, part of that responsibility is driving the team to win when you are already poised to win. Lebron did not exhibit that. Not making the finals while clearly not having the personnel or team make up is understandable. Losing in the finals, when you already have the tools and then some more, is what's not acceptable and should not be celebrated as a "silver".

The only loss on Lebron is 2011 and he gets hammered for that to this day. Even I think it's the biggest blackmark in his career. Also it's not about being satisfied with a silver, it's just acknowledging that it's a notable achievement. Winning your conference has always been an achievement.

[Full Court]

The only loss on Lebron is 2011 and he gets hammered for that to this day. Even I think it's the biggest blackmark in his career. Also it's not about being satisfied with a silver, it's just acknowledging that it's a notable achievement. Winning your conference has always been an achievement.

Please reference the list of choke jobs I posted earlier in this thread.

[Jasper]

bron was over heard the other day if Bronny and he do not play at least 5 minutes per game... he will ask for a trade

[Full Court]

bron was over heard the other day if Bronny and he do not play at least 5 minutes per game... he will ask for a trade

Source?

I'm skeptical.