What if games were simply broadcasted w/out commentary or review (no sports media)

[3ba11]

What would you guys do?.. How would fans know who the best players are? The only reason that people have Lebron #2 is because the media literally told them to - the evidence of the media whipping people into shape is the timeline of how the #2 ranking directly coincides with the media's creation of a goat debate... Before that, no one ranked Lebron at #2 and he wasn't even above Kobe, Kareem or Magic.. Lebron being #2 only became a thing after the goat debate was started in 2017 - the originator of the debate was such a fraud that he incorrectly predicted his fake goat would win the 17' Finals (here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjQR259CrwQ&t=01m05s)), and then began the fake debate on ESPN (here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0-ChZ5oEng))...

(notice the drum-roll by Chris Carter, so everyone is "in" on Nick Wright's "bombshell" that Lebron is already the goat.. so it's a confirmed fake, manufactured debate that fooled many in the public).

However, even without debating the actual basketball and accolades, Lebron lacks so many goat qualities, such as winning mentality, competitiveness, perseverance, and coachability.. There's also the basketball flaws, such as FT's, turnovers, and also the lack of elite "bag", expert jumpshooting skill or ability to play off teammates, and of course winning or even competitive record on the championship level (22-33).... Also, candidates for the greatest ever must be candidates for best scorer ever, which Lebron is not.

[NBAGOAT]

hello darkness my old friend

[Hey Yo]

hello darkness my old friend

Great song by S&G... I'm a fan of Disturbed, but their version sucks.

[SouBeachTalents]

Great song by S&G... I'm a fan of Disturbed, but their version sucks.
The Eminem version's music video is pretty twisted.

[Full Court]

I enjoy GOOD commentary.

Doris Burke and a few others, however, are insufferable.

[sdot_thadon]

Great song by S&G... I'm a fan of Disturbed, but their version sucks.

Never heard it before today, thanks guys.

[Wardell Curry]

Fun fact of the day: Michael Jordan ranks #40 All Time in game win/loss percentage.

Most notable players ahead of him that are also all timers:

Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Shaquille O'Neal, Bill Russell, Dennis Rodman, Scottie Pippen, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Julius Erving

There are some other big names too but these are the ones that people would be most familiar with.

Interestingly, both Rodman and Pippen won more than Jordan himself did. Those 1996, 97 & 98 Bulls were stacked as ****. Holy shit.

[SouBeachTalents]

Interestingly, both Rodman and Pippen won more than Jordan himself did. Those 1996, 97 & 98 Bulls were stacked as ****. Holy shit.
Bro, you haven't even mentioned they had another HOFer off the bench in Kukoc, a guy who was averaging 20 ppg just 2 seasons earlier in Harper, the all time 3 point % leader in Kerr, oh and the GOAT coach to boot. His teams were stacked as FVCK. No wonder they won 55 games while he was off being a scrub in baseball.

[Full Court]

Bro, you haven't even mentioned they had another HOFer off the bench in Kukoc, a guy who was averaging 20 ppg just 2 seasons earlier in Harper, the all time 3 point % leader in Kerr, oh and the GOAT coach to boot. His teams were stacked as FVCK. No wonder they won 55 games while he was off being a scrub in baseball.

Yes, the '96-'98 Bulls were stacked. You could even call them a super team. The thing is, Jordan never lost with a stacked team. If he had led a super team to the lottery like other superstars have, then he probably wouldn't be consensus GOAT.

[Axe]

Fun fact of the day: Michael Jordan ranks #40 All Time in game win/loss percentage.

Most notable players ahead of him that are also all timers:

Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Shaquille O'Neal, Bill Russell, Dennis Rodman, Scottie Pippen, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Julius Erving

There are some other big names too but these are the ones that people would be most familiar with.

Interestingly, both Rodman and Pippen won more than Jordan himself did. Those 1996, 97 & 98 Bulls were stacked as ****. Holy shit.
No pip, no chip.

[Full Court]

No AD, no playoffs.


:lebroncry:

[Axe]

Madonna. (https://i.ibb.co/FD9Zb2n/IMG-20240307-093330.jpg)

[RRR3]

Madonna. (https://i.ibb.co/FD9Zb2n/IMG-20240307-093330.jpg)
:lol

[Full Court]

Delonte West.

[ralph_i_el]

Without the media reminding people of his ringlessness early in his career, and his 2011 choke, random fans tuning in would easily see how he stands out compared to the competition. I think you're way off base here.

[Airupthere]

Yes, the '96-'98 Bulls were stacked. You could even call them a super team. The thing is, Jordan never lost with a stacked team. If he had led a super team to the lottery like other superstars have, then he probably wouldn't be consensus GOAT.

Oh shit

[Axe]

Without the media reminding people of his ringlessness early in his career, and his 2011 choke, random fans tuning in would easily see how he stands out compared to the competition. I think you're way off base here.
:applause: (https://i.ibb.co/z8gzbKD/IMG-20221208-093036.jpg)

[bison]

3ball is right. I don’t think any nba player has benefited more from the ‘hot take’ culture of modern sports talk than LeBron James. These shows hook their viewers with engagement bait, usually by expressing outrageous takes or ‘controversial’ opinions, and nothing trolls more people than ranking LeBron above Jordan. It’s all for show, they don’t actually believe what they say.

[pandiani17]

Answering the original question, lots of players that do not stand out would go overlooked. For example, Rajon Rondo or Derek Fisher. Casual fans would wonder what they were doing in the court.

[ILLsmak]

3ball is right. I don’t think any nba player has benefited more from the ‘hot take’ culture of modern sports talk than LeBron James. These shows hook their viewers with engagement bait, usually by expressing outrageous takes or ‘controversial’ opinions, and nothing trolls more people than ranking LeBron above Jordan. It’s all for show, they don’t actually believe what they say.

To be fair to Bron, he also got shit on way more than anyone else. I dunno anybody who has heads who have made a career out of shitting on them.

I do think the GOAT talk is troll, and even Bron knows it. Like he said when he was talking about what his son could call him "Or GOAT, you know..." He is just such a bitch you think he might be serious haha. I honestly don't think he thinks he's better than MJ, but he definitely has the resume to at least get attention.

But yeah, he got both sides. He's def the most polarizing. Think about how polarizing Kobe was, but I don't recall anyone coming up off of shitting on Kobe. Am I tripping?

-Smak

[WhiteKyrie]

I’d honestly wish there was an option just to have in game and in arena atmosphere sounds over broadcasters. Way more immersive. Get more mics by the floor. I want to hear the shit talk too. Unless there is some super likable or entertaining announcers kind of like Stacey King etc

[ShawkFactory]

Without the media reminding people of his ringlessness early in his career, and his 2011 choke, random fans tuning in would easily see how he stands out compared to the competition. I think you're way off base here.

Lol yea I was going to say something similar. Very rarely is he not just blatantly the most outstanding player on the court.

[3ba11]

L

Very rarely is he not just blatantly the most outstanding player on the court.







https://media.tenor.com/AdMlxs87UgYAAAAM/michael-jordan-get-some-help.gif





2007 1st Round

Jamison............... 32 on 48%
Lebron'................ 28 on 43%


2007 Finals

Parker................ 25 on 47%... 3 TO's... 16.2 gmsc
Lebron............... 22 on 36%... 6 TO's... 10.6 gmsc


2008 2nd Round

Garnett............... 20 on 55%.. 1 TO's.. 17.6 gmsc
Lebron................ 26 on 35%.. 6 TO's.. 17.5 gmsc


2011 2nd Round

Wade............... 30 on 50%
Lebron............. 28 on 50%


2011 ECF

Bosh'............... 23 on 60%
Lebron............. 26 on 45%


2011 Finals

Dirk................ 26 on 42%
Lebron............ 18 on 48%


2012 Finals


Durant............ 31 on 55%
Lebron............ 29 on 47%


2014 ECF

George'........... 24 on 45% (faced 1 on 5 coverage)
Lebron............ 23 on 56% (had equal-scoring partner in Wade)


2016 1st Round

Kyrie.............. 28 on 47%
Lebron'........... 23 on 48%


2017 Finals

Durant.......... 35 on 56%
Lebron.......... 34 on 56%


2018 Finals

Durant.......... 29 on 53%... FMVP
Lebron.......... 34 on 53%


2020 1st Round

AD............... 30 on 57%
Lebron'......... 27 on 60%


2020 2nd Round

AD............... 25 on 60%
Lebron'......... 26 on 51%


2020 WCF

AD............... 30 on 55%
Lebron'......... 25 on 50%


2010 (last 3 games)

Rondo............... 22 on 52%
Lebron.............. 21 on 34% (quit)



:kobe::whatever:

[HylianNightmare]

I'd be happier

[ShawkFactory]

https://media.tenor.com/AdMlxs87UgYAAAAM/michael-jordan-get-some-help.gif





2007 1st Round

Jamison............... 32 on 48%
Lebron'................ 28 on 43%


2007 Finals

Parker................ 25 on 47%... 3 TO's... 16.2 gmsc
Lebron............... 22 on 36%... 6 TO's... 10.6 gmsc


2008 2nd Round

Garnett............... 20 on 55%.. 1 TO's.. 17.6 gmsc
Lebron................ 26 on 35%.. 6 TO's.. 17.5 gmsc


2011 2nd Round

Wade............... 30 on 50%
Lebron............. 28 on 50%


2011 ECF

Bosh'............... 23 on 60%
Lebron............. 26 on 45%


2011 Finals

Dirk................ 26 on 42%
Lebron............ 18 on 48%


2012 Finals


Durant............ 31 on 55%
Lebron............ 29 on 47%


2014 ECF

George'........... 24 on 45% (faced 1 on 5 coverage)
Lebron............ 23 on 56% (had equal-scoring partner in Wade)


2016 1st Round

Kyrie.............. 28 on 47%
Lebron'........... 23 on 48%


2017 Finals

Durant.......... 35 on 56%
Lebron.......... 34 on 56%


2018 Finals

Durant.......... 29 on 53%... FMVP
Lebron.......... 34 on 53%


2020 1st Round

AD............... 30 on 57%
Lebron'......... 27 on 60%


2020 2nd Round

AD............... 25 on 60%
Lebron'......... 26 on 51%


2020 WCF

AD............... 30 on 55%
Lebron'......... 25 on 50%


2010 (last 3 games)

Rondo............... 22 on 52%
Lebron.............. 21 on 34% (quit)



:kobe::whatever:

I don't think you realize how much you're helping my point.

[Full Court]

I don't think you realize how much you're helping my point.

I don't think you realize how much you're helping the OP's point.

Because while the commentators are busy slurping Lebron, AD is routinely outplaying him and has been far more impactful since 2020.

Yet people are led to believe that Lebron is the most "oustanding player on the court."

[ShawkFactory]

I don't think you realize how much you're helping the OP's point.

Because while the commentators are busy slurping Lebron, AD is routinely outplaying him and has been far more impactful since 2020.

Yet people are led to believe that Lebron is the most "oustanding player on the court."

I don't even listen to commentary most of the time. Have the game on my computer while also watching something else with my wife. I use my eyes to determine these things.

[Full Court]

I don't even listen to commentary most of the time. Have the game on my computer while also watching something else with my wife. I use my eyes to determine these things.

I can't speak for you, but a lot of people are indeed influenced by the commentating - particularly the ones who don't get the nuances of the game.

Really, the ESPN ones are the main ones I'm talking about. There are some good commentators out there that actually add to the game.

[StrongLurk]

https://media.tenor.com/AdMlxs87UgYAAAAM/michael-jordan-get-some-help.gif





2007 1st Round

Jamison............... 32 on 48%
Lebron'................ 28 on 43%


2007 Finals

Parker................ 25 on 47%... 3 TO's... 16.2 gmsc
Lebron............... 22 on 36%... 6 TO's... 10.6 gmsc


2008 2nd Round

Garnett............... 20 on 55%.. 1 TO's.. 17.6 gmsc
Lebron................ 26 on 35%.. 6 TO's.. 17.5 gmsc


2011 2nd Round

Wade............... 30 on 50%
Lebron............. 28 on 50%


2011 ECF

Bosh'............... 23 on 60%
Lebron............. 26 on 45%


2011 Finals

Dirk................ 26 on 42%
Lebron............ 18 on 48%


2012 Finals


Durant............ 31 on 55%
Lebron............ 29 on 47%


2014 ECF

George'........... 24 on 45% (faced 1 on 5 coverage)
Lebron............ 23 on 56% (had equal-scoring partner in Wade)


2016 1st Round

Kyrie.............. 28 on 47%
Lebron'........... 23 on 48%


2017 Finals

Durant.......... 35 on 56%
Lebron.......... 34 on 56%


2018 Finals

Durant.......... 29 on 53%... FMVP
Lebron.......... 34 on 53%


2020 1st Round

AD............... 30 on 57%
Lebron'......... 27 on 60%


2020 2nd Round

AD............... 25 on 60%
Lebron'......... 26 on 51%


2020 WCF

AD............... 30 on 55%
Lebron'......... 25 on 50%


2010 (last 3 games)

Rondo............... 22 on 52%
Lebron.............. 21 on 34% (quit)



:kobe::whatever:

Lebron has never been outplayed in a playoff series.

[3ba11]

Lebron has never been outplayed in a playoff series.


Dirk, Wade, Durant, Kyrie, Parker, Garnett and AD did

[Round Mound]

3-ball your ranking for Lebron on the goat list is what? Top 30?

[Full Court]

3-ball your ranking for Lebron on the goat list is what? Top 30?

To be honest, anyone who ranks Lebron out of the top 30 is a hater.

[3ba11]

3-ball your ranking for Lebron on the goat list is what? Top 30?


How can someone that loses 17 of 21 years be goat or anywhere near?

How can a goat lose THAT frequently?

My rankings are based on the skillsets that required the least help to win - so we know that the best expert jumpshooters (MJ, Kobe, Curry, Bird) generate great ball movement and chemistry, so they require less help... The best bigs are next (Russell, Wilt, Kareem , Duncan, Shaq), followed by the best ball-dominators (Magic, Lebron, Oscar).

[SouBeachTalents]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?498686-Let-s-cut-the-BS-about-Curry

[3ba11]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?498686-Let-s-cut-the-BS-about-Curry


And yet just 3 weeks later - this:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499177-My-top-10-(supercedes-all-previous-rankings-for-reference-purposes-going-forward)


of course Kawhi and Giannis in there were ridiculous but the rest remained basically the same and I'm pretty sure that I was the first person in the world aside from Warriorsfan to have Curry top 5.. no one had him top 5 in 2021.. only3ball and probably warriorsfan.. we're always thinking ahead of our time.. it would behoove you to read our words carefully, slowly, and methodically.

My current top 10 is based on the skillsets that needed the least help to win, so the best expert jumpshooters (MJ, Kobe, Curry, Bird) and then the best bigs (Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan, Shaq), and then the best ball-dominators (Magic, Lebron, Oscar).

This is the only top 10 in the world with clear-cut criteria (the best of each skillset, based on the skillsets that needed the least help to win)