Lebron James since entering the NBA (03-04)

[StrongLurk]

1st in Rings
1st in FMVPs
1st in Points
1st in MVPs
1st in all-stars
1st in all-nba awards
1st in clutch points (regular season and playoffs)
1st in VORP
1st in Winshares
2nd in PER
1st in playoff points
1st in playoff assists
1st in playoff rebounds
1st in playoff series wins
1st in playoff game winners

Lebron is simply the GOAT of the modern era.

[Hey Yo]

:lebronamazed:

[Full Court]

1-9

[Airupthere]

1st in NBA silvers

[Airupthere]

Why do bran and his bransexuals have a need for constant validation?

[StrongLurk]

1st in NBA silvers

That's actually a really good accomplishment too. He just has too many to even keep track off.

[Full Court]

Why do bran and his bransexuals have a need for constant validation?

Insecurity because they know deep down that he's an underachiever even though they refuse to admit it.

[3ba11]

1st in turnovers
1st in missed FT's
1st in missed FG's
1st in Finals losses
1st in upset losses
1st in chokes
1st in meltdowns
1st in teaming up with opponents
1st in fake awards (play-in MVP, Olympic MVP, 20' Finals MVP and title)
1st in media shills
1st in flops
1st in cringeworthy childish actions (i.e. shoulder shrugs and crownings)
1st in losing frequency (17 of 21 seasons)
1st in worst championship game-winner efficiency (0-7)
1st in worst-caliber ever (35% and 6 TO per game - 07' Finals & 08 ECSF)

[hold this L]

Why do bran and his bransexuals have a need for constant validation?

Seriously. Of course he's going to be #1 in most of those categories. He's been in the NBA longer than everyone else and has GOAT tier longevity on top of being a relatively complete player.

[nayte]

Seriously. Of course he's going to be #1 in most of those categories. He's been in the NBA longer than everyone else and has GOAT tier longevity on top of being a relatively complete player.

It's effing weird.apart from 3ball everyone knows he has these records they are an insecure lot

[Full Court]

1st in turnovers
1st in missed FT's
1st in missed FG's
1st in Finals losses
1st in upset losses
1st in chokes
1st in meltdowns
1st in teaming up with opponents
1st in fake awards (play-in MVP, Olympic MVP, 20' Finals MVP and title)
1st in media shills
1st in flops
1st in cringeworthy childish actions (i.e. shoulder shrugs and crownings)
1st in losing frequency (17 of 21 seasons)
1st in worst championship game-winner efficiency (0-7)
1st in worst-caliber ever (35% and 6 TO per game - 07' Finals & 08 ECSF)


Which is what keeps him out of the top 5.

[StrongLurk]

Seriously. Of course he's going to be #1 in most of those categories. He's been in the NBA longer than everyone else and has GOAT tier longevity on top of being a relatively complete player.

So you agree with my OP that he is the GOAT of the modern era. Got it.

[Axe]

Some of his most notorious haters here are obsessed psychopaths. They keep on saying that he's worst or not as great as other players. Yet here they are, still stuck thinking about him over them all day. :oldlol:

[3ba11]

Some of his most notorious haters here are obsessed psychopaths. They keep on saying that he's worst or not as great as other players. Yet here they are, still stuck thinking about him over them all day. :oldlol:


Jordan has superior stats than Lebron in PPG, OREB, FT%, turnovers, SPG, BPG, possessions used (usage), efficiency on those possessions (ortg), PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP, plus/minus, clutch-time stats, game-winner efficiency.

Otoh, Lebron leads DREB (positional stat), TS (drive-heavy game, less jumpers/ball movement), and APG (ball-dominance/hogging the assists and low TEAM assists).

[StrongLurk]

Some of his most notorious haters here are obsessed psychopaths. They keep on saying that he's worst or not as great as other players. Yet here they are, still stuck thinking about him over them all day. :oldlol:

They ironically validate Lebron with every hating post. You just know they ae crying while typing.

[ILLsmak]

1st in turnovers
1st in missed FT's
1st in missed FG's
1st in Finals losses
1st in upset losses
1st in chokes
1st in meltdowns
1st in teaming up with opponents
1st in fake awards (play-in MVP, Olympic MVP, 20' Finals MVP and title)
1st in media shills
1st in flops
1st in cringeworthy childish actions (i.e. shoulder shrugs and crownings)
1st in losing frequency (17 of 21 seasons)
1st in worst championship game-winner efficiency (0-7)
1st in worst-caliber ever (35% and 6 TO per game - 07' Finals & 08 ECSF)

mirror selfies?

-Smak

[Full Court]

Some of his most notorious haters here are obsessed psychopaths. They keep on saying that he's worst or not as great as other players. Yet here they are, still stuck thinking about him over them all day. :oldlol:

^And this clown throws a bitch fit every time someone criticizes him. What a loser. :lol

[Axe]

PER
Nobody is beating joker on that. (https://i.ibb.co/JmpGnKz/IMG-20230528-095117.jpg)

[Full Court]

Jordan has superior stats than Lebron in PPG, OREB, FT%, turnovers, SPG, BPG, possessions used (usage), efficiency on those possessions (ortg), PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP, plus/minus, clutch-time stats, game-winner efficiency.

Otoh, Lebron leads DREB (positional stat), TS (drive-heavy game, less jumpers/ball movement), and APG (ball-dominance/hogging the assists and low TEAM assists).

This is an astute point. Not all assists are equal.

[kamil]

You forgot to add 6 finals losses to LeBron's* resume.

[StrongLurk]

You forgot to add 6 finals losses to LeBron's* resume.

It's been covered already. Six 2nd place finishes is actually an incredible accomplishment considering most players never even make the finals. You can try to somehow spin that into a negative, but then you'd have to do that for every player/season where they never even made the finals and you simply don't want to go down that road.

[Full Court]

It's been covered already. Six 2nd place finishes is actually an incredible accomplishment considering most players never even make the finals. You can try to somehow spin that into a negative, but then you'd have to do that for every player/season where they never even made the finals and you simply don't want to go down that road.

A 2nd place finish is not a great accomplishment when you're a heavy favorite and end up 2nd place because you had the BIGGEST CHOKE JOB IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT.

Truth hurts. :confusedshrug:

[Axe]

It's been covered already. Six 2nd place finishes is actually an incredible accomplishment considering most players never even make the finals. You can try to somehow spin that into a negative, but then you'd have to do that for every player/season where they never even made the finals and you simply don't want to go down that road.
Slay. (https://i.ibb.co/LJtPyW7/IMG-20221213-081813.jpg)

[Full Court]

Jordan has superior stats than Lebron in PPG, OREB, FT%, turnovers, SPG, BPG, possessions used (usage), efficiency on those possessions (ortg), PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP, plus/minus, clutch-time stats, game-winner efficiency.

Otoh, Lebron leads DREB (positional stat), TS (drive-heavy game, less jumpers/ball movement), and APG (ball-dominance/hogging the assists and low TEAM assists).

Don't forget that Lebron also leads in turnovers and chokes.

[Axe]

They ironically validate Lebron with every hating post. You just know they ae crying while typing.
All those childish whining and useless crusades against him wouldn't be here if he never entered the league or wasn't even born in the first place. (https://i.ibb.co/gDsySW3/IMG-20230603-203842.jpg)

[Full Court]

You forgot to add 6 finals losses to LeBron's* resume.

:roll:

[3ba11]

every season where they never even made the finals and you simply don't want to go down that road





Lebron has more losses before the Finals than MJ, Bird, Magic and many guys.

Lebron was lottery 4 times and also has 2 First Round losses, 3 Second Round losses, and 2 conference finals losses - that's 11 losses before the Finals, which is more than many guys..

One of the lottery seasons was in his prime (2019) and his 2 First Round losses occurred the only 2 times in his career that he had a low playoff seed (which is the excuse for MJ's first round losses).






Six 2nd place finishes





Nonsense... No one thinks the 2001 Sixers or 2007 Cavs were the 2nd best team in the league.. That's absurd.. Making the Finals is clearly conference-dependent and winning a notoriously-weak East is obviously not representative of being the 2nd-best team in the league..

In 2002, everyone knew that the Lakers won the title when they beat the Kings in the WCF, and the Finals against Kidd's Nets would be a foregone conclusion - it was a joke series that showed the imbalance between the conferences.. Similarly, everyone remembers Dallas nearly beating the 2014 Spurs and then the Heat losing by record amount and giving up on national TV.. It was obvious to anyone that watched that the Heat would be a 1st or 2nd Round team in the West.

Of course, in addition to the East winner not being considered the 2nd-best team, Lebron didn't start winning the East outside of a fluke until he put the top 3 players in the conference on 1 team - no one would give Jokic credit for winning the West if he teamed up with SGA and Curry.

[3ba11]

every season where they never even made the finals and you simply don't want to go down that road





Lebron has more losses before the Finals than MJ, Bird, Magic and many guys.

Lebron was lottery 4 times and also has 2 First Round losses, 3 Second Round losses, and 2 conference finals losses - that's 11 losses before the Finals, which is more than many guys..

One of the lottery seasons was in his prime (2019) and his 2 First Round losses occurred the only 2 times in his career that he had a low playoff seed (which is the excuse for MJ's first round losses).






Six 2nd place finishes





Nonsense... No one thinks the 2001 Sixers or 2007 Cavs were the 2nd best team in the league.. That's absurd.. Making the Finals is clearly conference-dependent and winning a notoriously-weak East is obviously not representative of being the 2nd-best team in the league..

In 2002, everyone knew that the Lakers won the title when they beat the Kings in the WCF, and the Finals against Kidd's Nets would be a foregone conclusion - it was a joke series that showed the imbalance between the conferences.. Similarly, everyone remembers Dallas nearly beating the 2014 Spurs and then the Heat losing by record amount and giving up on national TV.. It was obvious to anyone that watched that the Heat would be a 1st or 2nd Round team in the West.

Of course, in addition to the East winner not being considered the 2nd-best team, Lebron didn't start winning the East outside of a fluke until he put the top 3 players in the conference on 1 team - no one would give Jokic credit for winning the West if he teamed up with SGA and Curry.. You're like a Klutch Sports drugs addict - you got it bad.

[Axe]

Lebron has more losses before the Finals than MJ, Bird, Magic and many guys.

Lebron was lottery 4 times and also has 2 First Round losses, 3 Second Round losses, and 2 conference finals losses - that's 11 losses before the Finals, which is more than many guys..

One of the lottery seasons was in his prime (2019) and his 2 First Round losses occurred the only 2 times in his career that he had a low playoff seed (which is the excuse for MJ's first round losses).






Nonsense... No one thinks the 2001 Sixers or 2007 Cavs were the 2nd best team in the league.. That's absurd.. Making the Finals is clearly conference-dependent and winning a notoriously-weak East is obviously not representative of being the 2nd-best team in the league..

In 2002, everyone knew that the Lakers won the title when they beat the Kings in the WCF, and the Finals against Kidd's Nets would be a foregone conclusion - it was a joke series that showed the imbalance between the conferences.. Similarly, everyone remembers Dallas nearly beating the 2014 Spurs and then the Heat losing by record amount and giving up on national TV.. It was obvious to anyone that watched that the Heat would be a 1st or 2nd Round team in the West.

Of course, in addition to the East winner not being considered the 2nd-best team, Lebron didn't start winning the East outside of a fluke until he put the top 3 players in the conference on 1 team - no one would give Jokic credit for winning the West if he teamed up with SGA and Curry.
https://i.postimg.cc/0jmfxGWx/1-9skiddy.png (https://i.ibb.co/LvpqKCn/IMG-20221108-062653.jpg)

[Full Court]

^Autism has spoken.


:milton

[StrongLurk]

1st in Rings
1st in FMVPs
1st in Points
1st in MVPs
1st in all-stars
1st in all-nba awards
1st in clutch points (regular season and playoffs)
1st in VORP
1st in Winshares
2nd in PER
1st in playoff points
1st in playoff assists
1st in playoff rebounds
1st in playoff series wins
1st in playoff game winners

Lebron is simply the GOAT of the modern era.

Simply the GOAT of the modern era. No one reached the top of the mountain more than Lebron in the modern era. Not only does he have GOAT longevity, but is per game production in his prime (09-2020) isn't matched by anyone either.

[Axe]

Simply the GOAT of the modern era. No one reached the top of the mountain more than Lebron in the modern era. Not only does he have GOAT longevity, but is per game production in his prime (09-2020) isn't matched by anyone either.
Looks like he's also the last man standing from his batch. (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQXjsbxHgWKVzGIpCDFUbmq7cu8YziwX xzr6g&usqp=CAU)

[Full Court]

Simply the GOAT of the modern era. No one reached the top of the mountain more than Lebron in the modern era. Not only does he have GOAT longevity, but is per game production in his prime (09-2020) isn't matched by anyone either.

He's not even the GOAT of his OWN era much less the modern era.

Curry is.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.tenor.com%2Fm%2FH8akeoCjEZ sAAAAC%2Fincredulous-cormier.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=238b1e69c33cfd1222993a48db5832892f5971bd61b595 0b6d41846e08bf5d18&ipo=images

[Axe]

Supposedly not the 'GOAT' but still manages to whine and think about him 24/7, even after being half a year on timeout. :roll:

Inb4 the gay trolling. :rolleyes:

[StrongLurk]

Looks like he's also the last man standing from his batch. (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQXjsbxHgWKVzGIpCDFUbmq7cu8YziwX xzr6g&usqp=CAU)

Yeah it's wild. Not only does he have GOAT longevity, but is per game production in his prime (09-2020) isn't matched by anyone either. Also no one has more MVPs, FMVPs, and rings during his prime either. Modern era GOAT.

[eliteballer]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTeOxWJyjvKjwGFc1xo3_wSzrYml4EL_ RaQxV17beLHLyMKL8pkoXhbMYKMRQ_b8M9tzjg&usqp=CAU

[sdot_thadon]

Yeah it's wild. Not only does he have GOAT longevity, but is per game production in his prime (09-2020) isn't matched by anyone either. Also no one has more MVPs, FMVPs, and rings during his prime either. Modern era GOAT.

Hes more than earned his case at this point. Just unreal.

[Full Court]

Supposedly not the 'GOAT' but still manages to whine and think about him 24/7, even after being half a year on timeout. :roll:

Inb4 the gay trolling. :rolleyes:

What a crybaby. :roll:

You'd think he'd get tired of throwing bitch fits.:confusedshrug:

[Axe]

Yeah it's wild. Not only does he have GOAT longevity, but is per game production in his prime (09-2020) isn't matched by anyone either. Also no one has more MVPs, FMVPs, and rings during his prime either. Modern era GOAT.
I wonder who'll be the next to replicate such longevity someday. I don't think it's gonna be wemby since i feel like he's too skinny for it lol. (https://i.ibb.co/LzPkqxg/IMG-20220801-093714.jpg)

[Full Court]

Yeah it's wild. Not only does he have GOAT longevity, but is per game production in his prime (09-2020) isn't matched by anyone either. Also no one has more MVPs, FMVPs, and rings during his prime either. Modern era GOAT.

I wonder if his longevity record for turnovers and choke jobs will ever be broken?

[StrongLurk]

I wonder who'll be the next to replicate such longevity someday. I don't think it's gonna be wemby since i feel like he's too skinny for it lol. (https://i.ibb.co/LzPkqxg/IMG-20220801-093714.jpg)

Hard to say. Even though he has GOAT longevity, it's still secondary as an "accomplishment" in my opinion compared to his peak/prime play. 2009-2020 he has the past per game stats, best advanced stats, best accolades, most winning as the best player (4 FMVPs).

The whole package clearly puts him in his own tier as GOAT of the modern era.

[3ba11]

2009-2020 he has the past per game stats, best advanced stats, best accolades, most winning as the best player (4 FMVPs)





Lebron will go down in history as the player that taught everyone that stats "don't matter" and certainly aren't the biggest factor like we once thought them to be.

Stats are a secondary factor to winning and winning with less, while also proving that you learned how to win aka learned the chemistry required to win with whatever roster you were given, as opposed to never learning elite chemistry and being a talent-based winner instead (team-hopper, all-star team strategy).

Winning requires things like teammate development and elevation, chemistry/fits and a skillset that allows a high strategic capacity/coaching, as opposed to a skillset that puts every coach in handcuffs and has a coaching carousal

[StrongLurk]

Lebron will go down in history as the player that taught everyone that stats "don't matter" and certainly aren't the biggest factor like we once thought them to be.

Stats are a secondary factor to winning and winning with less, while also proving that you learned how to win aka learned the chemistry required to win with whatever roster you were given, as opposed to never learning elite chemistry and being a talent-based winner instead (team-hopper, all-star team strategy).

Winning requires things like teammate development and elevation, chemistry/fits and a skillset that allows a high strategic capacity/coaching, as opposed to a skillset that puts every coach in handcuffs and has a coaching carousal

Pippen went 6/6 in the finals.

[Axe]

Pippen went 6/6 in the finals.
Ether. (https://i.ibb.co/hX34jLs/IMG-20221001-103220.jpg)

[ImKobe]

Curry has 4 rings too, chico. MVPs is his only argument but Jokic will probably get to 4 soon enough. All he'll have is longevity numbers.

[StrongLurk]

Curry has 4 rings too, chico. MVPs is his only argument but Jokic will probably get to 4 soon enough. All he'll have is longevity numbers.

Not only does Lebron have GOAT longevity, but his per game production in his prime (09-2020) isn't matched by anyone either. Also no one has more MVPs, FMVPs, and rings during his prime either. Modern era GOAT.

Peak to peak, prime to prime, longevity to longevity, he literally has everyone in the modern era beat.

[3ba11]

Pippen went 6/6 in the finals.


How many 2nd options went 0/6 for FMVP?

Only the most-carried 2nd option ever - a guy that wasn't really a 2nd option anyway, except alongside the goat scorer to carry him.

Anyone that won more than 2 Finals needed a teammate to win FMVP or average 25 ppg, except Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg.. Ultimately, ring counts and "Finals records" are reserved for FIRST options

[StrongLurk]

How many 2nd options went 0/6 for FMVP?

Only the most-carried 2nd option ever - a guy that wasn't really a 2nd option anyway, except alongside the goat scorer to carry him.

Anyone that won more than 2 Finals needed a teammate to win FMVP or average 25 ppg, except Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg.. Ultimately, ring counts and "Finals records" are reserved for FIRST options

Ah, this is a perfect response and something I've said for a long time. Glad you finally admitted it and you just destroyed all of your Lebron hater arguments.

Ring counts really just matter for those who can win FMVP (aka 1st option). And Lebron has the 2nd most FMVPs of all time with 4 (aka, the 2nd best WINNER of all time).

When discussing GOATs, the FMVP is a REQUIREMENT. It's why MJ is one all time and Lebron is 2, and it's why you have become so butthurt about Lebron.

[3ba11]

Ah, this is a perfect response and something I've said for a long time. Glad you finally admitted it and you just destroyed all of your Lebron hater arguments.

Ring counts really just matter for those who can win FMVP (aka 1st option). And Lebron has the 2nd most FMVPs of all time with 4 (aka, the 2nd best WINNER of all time).

When discussing GOATs, the FMVP is a REQUIREMENT. It's why MJ is one all time and Lebron is 2, and it's why you have become so butthurt about Lebron.


FMVP means little actually.. I was just responding to your inquiry about it

The important factors are winning with the least help, such as going back-to-back with a 2nd option that was worse than Bosh or Love.. And the other important factor is winning the most chips as the best player, so many guys have 3 chips as the best player arguably, such as Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, Magic, Duncan and many other guys.. Accordingly, MJ arguably has twice as many chips as the best player as anyone else (3-pointer history).

Of course, any franchise player that wins the most chips in the current era can say "I won the most chips in the toughest era, therefore screw prior eras and prior ring counts - winning the most in the toughest era is all that matters"... However, Lebron cannot make this argument to say "screw prior eras" because he didn't win the most of the current era - Duncan or Kobe did, so they're closer to being goat candidates then he is, and they're ahead of him on the all-time rankings.

[StrongLurk]

FMVP means little actually.. I was just responding to your inquiry about it

The important factors are winning with the least help, such as going back-to-back with a 2nd option that was worse than Bosh or Love.. And the other important factor is winning the most chips as the best player, so many guys have 3 chips as the best player arguably, such as Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, Magic, Duncan and many other guys.. Accordingly, MJ arguably has twice as many chips as the best player as anyone else (3-pointer history).

Of course, any franchise player that wins the most chips in the current era can say "I won the most chips in the toughest era, therefore screw prior eras and prior ring counts - winning the most in the toughest era is all that matters"... However, Lebron cannot make this argument to say "screw prior eras" because he didn't win the most of the current era - Duncan or Kobe did, so they're closer to being goat candidates then he is, and they're ahead of him on the all-time rankings.

I didn't say anything about FMVP, I just mentioned rings (Pippen 6/6 in finals). YOU were the one who melted down and made your post about FMVPs :roll:

Also the rest of this new post is wrong. Nobody won more rings than Lebron since he came into the league. Nobody won more rings in Lebron's prime either (2009-2020). Nobody won as the best player (4 times) as much as Lebron did. Peak to peak, prime to prime, longevity to longevity, winning as the best player, etc. Lebron is the best at all of these categories since he came into the league. He's the GOAT of the MODERN era.

I mean, you literally self-owned yourself two posts ago and ruined literally all of your Lebron hater arguments. You then made this sorry ass weak response trying to backtrack your OWN previous post and you failed at that too :lol

[Full Court]

I didn't say anything about FMVP, I just mentioned rings (Pippen 6/6 in finals). YOU were the one who melted down and made your post about FMVPs :roll:

Also the rest of this new post is wrong. Nobody won more rings than Lebron since he came into the league. Nobody won more rings in Lebron's prime either (2009-2020). Nobody won as the best player (4 times) as much as Lebron did. Peak to peak, prime to prime, longevity to longevity, winning as the best player, etc. Lebron is the best at all of these categories since he came into the league. He's the GOAT of the MODERN era.

I mean, you literally self-owned yourself two posts ago and ruined literally all of your Lebron hater arguments. You then made this sorry ass weak response trying to backtrack your OWN previous post and you failed at that too :lol

Most choke jobs of all time.

Sorry, truth hurts.

:lebroncry:

[eliteballer]

Not only does Lebron have GOAT longevity, but his per game production in his prime (09-2020) isn't matched by anyone either. Also no one has more MVPs, FMVPs, and rings during his prime either. Modern era GOAT.

Peak to peak, prime to prime, longevity to longevity, he literally has everyone in the modern era beat.

Not without roids.

[3ba11]

I didn't say anything about FMVP, I just mentioned rings (Pippen 6/6 in finals). YOU were the one who melted down and made your post about FMVPs :roll:

Also the rest of this new post is wrong. Nobody won more rings than Lebron since he came into the league. Nobody won more rings in Lebron's prime either (2009-2020). Nobody won as the best player (4 times) as much as Lebron did. Peak to peak, prime to prime, longevity to longevity, winning as the best player, etc. Lebron is the best at all of these categories since he came into the league. He's the GOAT of the MODERN era.

I mean, you literally self-owned yourself two posts ago and ruined literally all of your Lebron hater arguments. You then made this sorry ass weak response trying to backtrack your OWN previous post and you failed at that too :lol


The criteria is winning more than anyone that you played against.. So guys like Magic, Bird, Kareem, etc won many rings before MJ came in the league - but it didn't matter because MJ won more than all of them, and that's what Lebron failed to do with guys that he played against like Kobe or duncan - they won more than him and had better teams.. Curry also had better teams and won with less (wiggins/poole).. bron-ball is simply the most losing and needy skillset when compared to fundamental bigs that own him (Duncan, Jokic) or expert jumpshooters that own him (Curry and Kobe made 09' Finals as expected)...

So again - getting back the original point - a player must win the most of his era to say "screw prior eras and ring counts because I won the most in the current/toughest era".. Lebron didn't win the most because other guys that he played against won more.

[StrongLurk]

The criteria is winning more than anyone that you played against.. So guys like Magic, Bird, Kareem, etc won many rings before MJ came in the league - but it didn't matter because MJ won more than all of them, and that's what Lebron failed to do with guys that he played against like Kobe or duncan - they won more than him and had better teams.. Curry also had better teams and won with less (wiggins/poole).. bron-ball is simply the most losing and needy skillset when compared to fundamental bigs that own him (Duncan, Jokic) or expert jumpshooters that own him (Curry and Kobe made 09' Finals as expected)...

So again - getting back the original point - a player must win the most of his era to say "screw prior eras and ring counts because I won the most in the current/toughest era".. Lebron didn't win the most because other guys that he played against won more.

You are literally showing 3 different criteria in 3 posts in a row. Based on this new crap you just spit out, my 6/6 Pippen post still stands since he won more than his competitors and is now Co-GOAT with MJ based on your dumb takes. Also last time anyone with a brain checked, MJ did NOT in fact win more rings than Kareem (both with 6).

Idk why I even respond to you because I know you don't even believe the dumb shit you type anyways.

TLDR: Nobody won more rings than Lebron since he came into the league. Nobody won more rings in Lebron's prime either (2009-2020). Nobody won as the best player (4 times) as much as Lebron did. Peak to peak, prime to prime, longevity to longevity, winning as the best player, etc. Lebron is the best at all of these categories since he came into the league. He's the GOAT of the MODERN era.

[Full Court]

You are literally showing 3 different criteria in 3 posts in a row. Based on this new crap you just spit out, my 6/6 Pippen post still stands since he won more than his competitors and is now Co-GOAT with MJ based on your dumb takes. Also last time anyone with a brain checked, MJ did NOT in fact win more rings than Kareem (both with 6).

Idk why I even respond to you because I know you don't even believe the dumb shit you type anyways.

TLDR: Nobody won more rings than Lebron since he came into the league. Nobody won more rings in Lebron's prime either (2009-2020). Nobody won as the best player (4 times) as much as Lebron did. Peak to peak, prime to prime, longevity to longevity, winning as the best player, etc. Lebron is the best at all of these categories since he came into the league. He's the GOAT of the MODERN era.

In their tiny brains, Bronie fluffers have a ton of trouble comprehending that you can (and should) take more than one criteria into consideration.

[3ba11]

Nobody won more rings than Lebron since he came into the league





By winning more than everyone they played against/more than anyone that played in their era, a player can make the argument that that their ring count in the current/tougher era supersedes the ring counts of prior/weaker eras.. Unfortunately, Lebron cannot make this argument because other guys that played in his era won more than him, namely Kobe and Duncan.

Otoh, MJ can say that Russell's rings don't matter due to weak era, since MJ won the more than anyone in the toughest/current era (everyone that he played against).. Lebron cannot make this argument because other guys that played in his era won more than him, namely Kobe, Duncan.. Meanwhile, Curry won just as much and had arguably the goat teams, while also winning with the least, aka Wiggins).






Peak to peak, prime to prime, longevity to longevity, winning as the best player, etc. Lebron is the best at all of these categories since he came into the league. He's the GOAT of the MODERN era.





1) Curry peak was higher based on dominance, accolade, winning, and changing the game, while Kobe's peak was arguably higher as well based on winning with less, such as a sidekick that was worse than Love or Bosh

2) Lebron only has 3 chips as the best player and most people know this (see the support for this below)

3) For Lebron to win as the 1st option and leading scorer of the team, he needed 2 star teammates that included a sidekick who made the Finals without him (Kyrie, Wade) - this is objectively more help than Kobe, since Kobe only needed 1 star teammate who didn't make the Finals without him (Pau), and wasn't even All-NBA without him or better than lebron's 3rd options.






winning as the best player





Everyone was there and watched AD lift a lottery team to champion in 1 season by leading both sides of the ball - he turned the defense from worst to 1st and led the league in scoring (for the playoffs and also the Lakers' regular season).

Everyone also saw AD carry the Lakers to the Finals by winning the "real" Finals over Jokic - everyone remembers this - it's virtually impossible that Lebron was the best player for that title run because a teammate led both sides of the ball and lifted the team from lottery to champion.

Remember when Kuzma pushed Lebron to play defense in the middle of the game - Lebron hasn't been all-defense in 10 years and never in his 30's.. So Lebron was a bad defender in 2020, which means that AD ran the entire defensive side of the ball, while being the team's leading scorer and carrying the team to the Finals over Jokic... AD turned 6 straight lottery seasons into champion (5 of those seasons were Kobe and one was Lebron in 2019).. So it's impossible that Lebron was the best Laker in 2020.

[StrongLurk]

By winning more than everyone they played against/more than anyone that played in their era, a player can make the argument that that their ring count in the current/tougher era supersedes the ring counts of prior/weaker eras.. Unfortunately, Lebron cannot make this argument because other guys that played in his era won more than him, namely Kobe and Duncan.

Otoh, MJ can say that Russell's rings don't matter due to weak era, since MJ won the more than anyone in the toughest/current era (everyone that he played against).. Lebron cannot make this argument because other guys that played in his era won more than him, namely Kobe, Duncan.. Meanwhile, Curry won just as much and had arguably the goat teams, while also winning with the least, aka Wiggins).


1) Curry peak was higher based on dominance, accolade, winning, and changing the game, while Kobe's peak was arguably higher as well based on winning with less, such as a sidekick that was worse than Love or Bosh

2) Lebron only has 3 chips as the best player and most people know this (see the support for this below)

3) For Lebron to win as the 1st option and leading scorer of the team, he needed 2 star teammates that included a sidekick who made the Finals without him (Kyrie, Wade) - this is objectively more help than Kobe, since Kobe only needed 1 star teammate who didn't make the Finals without him (Pau), and wasn't even All-NBA without him or better than lebron's 3rd options.






Everyone was there and watched AD lift a lottery team to champion in 1 season by leading both sides of the ball - he turned the defense from worst to 1st and led the league in scoring (for the playoffs and also the Lakers' regular season).

Everyone also saw AD carry the Lakers to the Finals by winning the "real" Finals over Jokic - everyone remembers this - it's virtually impossible that Lebron was the best player for that title run because a teammate led both sides of the ball and lifted the team from lottery to champion.

Remember when Kuzma pushed Lebron to play defense in the middle of the game - Lebron hasn't been all-defense in 10 years and never in his 30's.. So Lebron was a bad defender in 2020, which means that AD ran the entire defensive side of the ball, while being the team's leading scorer and carrying the team to the Finals over Jokic... AD turned 6 straight lottery seasons into champion (5 of those seasons were Kobe and one was Lebron in 2019).. So it's impossible that Lebron was the best Laker in 2020.

Your whole post is wrong and has been proven wrong dozens of times. You'll need to provide something else, and next time, try not to contradict yourself multiple times in a row (I know you can't though).

[3ba11]

Your whole post is wrong and has been proven wrong dozens of times. You'll need to provide something else, and next time, try not to contradict yourself multiple times in a row (I know you can't though).


you lost - other guys that played in Lebron's era won more than him and AD was the best Laker in 2020. it's definitive

[StrongLurk]

you lost - other guys that played in Lebron's era won more than him and AD was the best Laker in 2020. it's definitive

Nobody won more rings than Lebron since he came into the league. Nobody won more rings in Lebron's prime either (2009-2020). Nobody won as the best player (4 times FMVP) as much as Lebron did. Peak to peak, prime to prime, longevity to longevity, winning as the best player, etc. Lebron is the best at all of these categories since he came into the league. He's the GOAT of the MODERN era.

[3ba11]

Nobody won more rings than Lebron since he came into the league. Nobody won more rings in Lebron's prime either (2009-2020). Nobody won as the best player (4 times FMVP) as much as Lebron did. Peak to peak, prime to prime, longevity to longevity, winning as the best player, etc. Lebron is the best at all of these categories since he came into the league. He's the GOAT of the MODERN era.


No one cares about any of that cherry-picked stuff - Lebron didn't win more titles than everyone he played against - various stars that played during Lebron's career won more than him, like Kobe and Duncan... Since his contemporaries won more than him, he cannot say "screw Russell's 11 chips because I won the most in the toughest/current era", while jordan CAN make this claim, and is therefore GOAT.

[ShawkFactory]

No one cares about any of that cherry-picked stuff

:roll:

YOU are saying this?! Holy shit that genuinely made me laugh. Thanks man :applause:

[3ba11]

:roll:

YOU are saying this?! Holy shit that genuinely made me laugh. Thanks man :applause:


Jordan won more than everyone he faced, and Lebron didn't

Since Lebron's contemporaries won more than him, he cannot say "screw Russell's 11 chips because I won the most in the toughest/current era", while jordan CAN make this claim, and is therefore GOAT.

Btw, it's clear that Lebron only started winning in the weaker era (curry's era) after teaming up with all his opponents... and yet he still mostly lost because the high-scoring point guard skillset imposes spot-up roles and weak chemistry with every cast.

[StrongLurk]

Jordan won more than everyone he faced, and Lebron didn't

Since Lebron's contemporaries won more than him, he cannot say "screw Russell's 11 chips because I won the most in the toughest/current era", while jordan CAN make this claim, and is therefore GOAT.

Btw, it's clear that Lebron only started winning in the weaker era (curry's era) after teaming up with all his opponents... and yet he still mostly lost because the high-scoring point guard skillset imposes spot-up roles and weak chemistry with every cast.

Jordan didn't win more than Kareem as I pointed out already. So once again you are wrong and Jordan can't make the GOAT claim according to your own post. You have been wrong on all of the points you tried to make to downplay Lebron in this thread. The reason you are wrong is because Lebron's case for modern GOAT is just too strong.

MJ will just have to be the 90's Co-GOAT with Pippen since Pippen went 6/6 in the finals.

[3ba11]

Jordan didn't win more than Kareem as I pointed out already. So once again you are wrong and Jordan can't make the GOAT claim according to your own post. You have been wrong on all of the points you tried to make to downplay Lebron in this thread. The reason you are wrong is because Lebron's case for modern GOAT is just too strong.

MJ will just have to be the 90's Co-GOAT with Pippen since Pippen went 6/6 in the finals.


No one expected Lebron to give up after Year 7 and team-up with opponents thereafter, so stop saying he met every expectation because it's a massive lie.

Giving up on the team that drafted you and deciding to team up with opponents is the DEFINITION of failing expectation, just like being lottery with the East all-star center in 2005, or losing as a -700 favorite in 2009, or having the goat choke in 2011, or losing 7 times with favored rosters (preseason favorite or homecourt), or losing 3 times with multiple all-star teammates, or losing 4 straight 4th quarter leads to get swept, or being lottery in his prime in 2019, or falling from preseason favorite to underdog or loser for 6 straight years from 11-16' (except the Allen miracle) - these are all underachieving the expectation!!!

The issue is that Klutch Sports got angry one day on a conference call with the media and famously yelled "Lebron has met every expectation and you will say this on all your sports shows!!!"... And the rest is history - the spineless media got in line and the public was fooled... Have at it though - enjoy your fraud

And we know that underachieving the expectation is a skillset issue.. High-scoring point guard skillsets have a high volume of unassisted buckets that leave teammates standing around in spot-up roles, and this weak chemistry, fits and brand of ball underachieves favored rosters as a standard.

[Meticode]

Most will point out first in NBA Finals losses too.

[StrongLurk]

Most will point out first in NBA Finals losses too.

Most second place finishes is not a negative no matter how you try to spin it. Plenty of all time greats don't even make the finals.

[Meticode]

Most second place finishes is not a negative no matter how you try to spin it. Plenty of all time greats don't even make the finals.

I disagree.

It is somewhat a negative. Why do I say this? Because if LeBron went 5-5 or 6-4 in the Finals instead of 4-6 there wouldn't be much of an argument about him being the GOAT anymore. Or at the minimum, he would have a much stronger argument as the GOAT, but he's not the GOAT at 4-6 and will never be in most logical fan's eyes. Hardware is what keeps him out of that conversation. He'll always been #2 in most people's eyes because he didn't win enough when he had the opportunity to win.

[3ba11]

.
Examples of underachievement



Losing with multiple all-star teammates 3 times

Losing with preseason favorite 4 times

Losing with homecourt 3 times

Lottery with all-star teammate 1 time (05')

Lottery in prime 1 time (19')

Lottery record on the championship level (22-33)

Zero game-winners (0-7) over material sample in Finals

Giving up in Year 7 and teaming up with opponents thereafter

Everyone's bitch - record losses, upset losses, or sweep losses to many different opponents despite all-star teammates (Nuggets, Spurs, Warriors, Mavs, Magic )


And we know that underachieving the expectation is a skillset issue.. High-scoring point guard skillsets have a high volume of unassisted buckets that leave teammates standing around in spot-up roles, and this weak chemistry, fits and brand of ball underachieves favored rosters as a standard.

[3ba11]

Jordan didn't win more than Kareem as I pointed out already.





Kareem and Jordan won the most rings of the more current/tougher era, so they can crap on the ring counts of prior eras like Russell's - accordingly, only MJ and Kareem have the ring and winning arguments as part of their goat case.. And Jordan won 6 as the best player compared to 2 for Kareem, so we're really only talking about Jordan for GOAT.

[3ba11]

since Pippen went 6/6 in the finals.


Career Finals alongside Lebron or MJ



Lebron....... 28 on 48%
Kyrie.......... 28 on 47%
AD.............. 25 on 55%
Wade......... 24 on 47%

Pippen....... 19 on 42%
MJ...............34 on 48%


How did Lebron go 4-6 with so much more help than MJ?..

and preseason favorites for 7 of the Finals??.. Only Lebron's bad chemistry causes favored talent/preseason favorites to fall to underdog or loser for 6 straight years (except the Allen miracle).

[3ba11]

Most second place finishes is not a negative no matter how you try to spin it. Plenty of all time greats don't even make the finals.


It's a big enough sample by now to know that Lebron produces weak teams that compete at a lottery level in the championship (22-33) - this is worst-ever.

And losing in the Finals is definitely a negative because fails the goat standard to lose in the Finals, or with favored talent such as 1 or 2 seeds, preseason favorites, homecourt advantage or with all-star teammates ,(except the baseball yr)...

All.these things are negatives if we're judging Lebron by the goat standard, which he clearly falls far short of by virtue of perennially-underachieving favored rosters.

[StrongLurk]

Kareem and Jordan won the most rings of the more current/tougher era, so they can crap on the ring counts of prior eras like Russell's - accordingly, only MJ and Kareem have the ring and winning arguments as part of their goat case.. And Jordan won 6 as the best player compared to 2 for Kareem, so we're really only talking about Jordan for GOAT.

Ah so winning as the best player is now the goal post shifting you are doing. You always end up at this junction by the way, and this junction proves Lebron is second best all time with 4 finals MVPs.

You always get so upset in my threads, look at you spamming five posts in a row :oldlol:

[StrongLurk]

I disagree.

It is somewhat a negative. Why do I say this? Because if LeBron went 5-5 or 6-4 in the Finals instead of 4-6 there wouldn't be much of an argument about him being the GOAT anymore. Or at the minimum, he would have a much stronger argument as the GOAT, but he's not the GOAT at 4-6 and will never be in most logical fan's eyes. Hardware is what keeps him out of that conversation. He'll always been #2 in most people's eyes because he didn't win enough when he had the opportunity to win.

Okay so? Everyone agrees Lebron is second best all time. What's the problem now? My OP is only saying Lebron is the GOAT of the modern era, which is true.

[SouBeachTalents]

Okay so? Everyone agrees Lebron is second best all time. What's the problem now? My OP is only saying Lebron is the GOAT of the modern era, which is true.
That poster also conflated not winning 5-6 titles with a losing Finals record. If LeBron was 4-0 that wouldn't help his GOAT argument.

[3ba11]

You always get so upset in my threads, look at you spamming five posts in a row :oldlol:





You spouted 5 Klutch lies or misrepresentions, so I had to correct each one... :confusedshrug:...






Ah so winning as the best player is now the goal post shifting you are doing. You always end up at this junction by the way, and this junction proves Lebron is second best all time with 4 finals MVPs.





I conceded your point that Kareem won just as many rings as MJ, but pointed out that this didn't change the argument and simply added Kareem to it - Kareem and Jordan won the most rings of their era/player pool, so they can crap on the ring counts of weaker eras that came before them like Russell's - accordingly, only MJ and Kareem have the ring argument as part of their goat case... And it's only natural to point out that winning as the best player is all that matters - it would be weird to not point out that one guy is 6 for 6 in winning chips as the best player, and the other guy is 2 for 6.

[StrongLurk]

You spouted 5 Klutch lies or misrepresentions, so I had to correct each one... :confusedshrug:...






I conceded your point that Kareem won just as many rings as MJ, but pointed out that this didn't change the argument and simply added Kareem to it - Kareem and Jordan won the most rings of their era/player pool, so they can crap on the ring counts of weaker eras that came before them like Russell's - accordingly, only MJ and Kareem have the ring argument as part of their goat case... And it's only natural to point out that winning as the best player is all that matters - it would be weird to not point out that one guy is 6 for 6 in winning chips as the best player, and the other guy is 2 for 6.

I told zero lies, however you did tell a few lies which you just admitted in this post.

In fact, based on the logic of this recent post of yours, you now have Pippen over Kobe all time since Pip has 6 and Kobe only has 5, therefore disqualifying Kobe. Oh dang, I guess Robert Horry is now ahead of MJ since Rob got 7 rangz.

[And1AllDay]

top 2 and he ain't 2