What a ridiculous way to approach scoring. Just…not intelligent…..

[Kblaze8855]

….if you aren’t that gotdamn good at it.



https://youtu.be/yxULimaut2k?si=U2GSSR85Ac8SHKjx


After 10-15 years of coaches beating those shots out of stars? It’s refreshing…but I still want to clutch my pearls at the…theoretical….inefficiently of it.

With all the switches into brutal mismatches, damn near halfcourt screens with 3 shooters easy drives, slamming into someone and falling over offense I’ve gotten used to?

this conduct cannot be allowed. But him being so good at it caused such a proliferation of young Wings attempting it they took 25 years to beat it out of the game.

In retrospect, we should only have turned the blind eye for Kobe…. Paul Pierce….01-03 McGrady and maybe that 2 years Vince Carter was the second coming. Them aside? I’ll only hear an argument for the one month Jamal Mashburn looked to be getting healthy on the hornets and I will take Bucks Ray Allen into consideration. But we should’ve nipped in the bud after that.

Nobody drafted after 1999 should’ve been allowed to go down that path. Carmelo and Kevin Durant carried the torch admirably for a while, but all it did was give a bad style a little gasp of air. For the greater good? Carmelo and Kevin Durant should be stricken from the record.

Devin Booker might also need to go. I’ll have to do more research. DeMar DeRozan would be thrown overboard, but he’s no threat to the future because you’ve never even heard the sentence “I wanna be the next Demar”.

It’s only a danger if you take others with you. He’s free to walk the path because DeMar DeRozan will never have apostles. Jordan had 50 million of us ****ing the game up. I took so many goddamn fadeaway jumpers in the 90s on what was probably 26%……

We should all be punished.

[warriorfan]

next wave is people shooting way too deep of threes

[Real Men Wear Green]

Short jumpers are Jaylen Brown's bread and butter. Any time the offense is slumping he can get that shot off over anyone and hit it at a high rate.

[Kblaze8855]

next wave is people shooting way too deep of threes

We are already at a point not even role players get pulled for doing it and missing. I don’t know that it can get much more prevalent until they add a 4 pointer. Coaches look the other way when 7th men pull up from 30.

[Im Still Ballin]

MJ was so good at keeping turnovers low for himself and also his team, especially during the second threepeat.

7.8 TOV% from '96 to '98 on a gargantuan 33.4 USG% and 31.05 points per 75 possessions scoring rate. They've only got on/off lineup data for 1997 onwards but he's comfortably #1 for RA-OTOV% (his team's turnover percentage on offense when he's on the court versus off it, adjusted for the strength of his teammates and opposition).

It's like the inverse effect of a guy on offense who can't reliably score and the defense can cheat off of to overload the guys who do move the needle. The data shows that bigs like Rudy increase their team's turnover rate on offense. Nerfs a lot of the offensive value they do bring from finishing and second-chance points.

Possession efficiency is one of the benefits of MJ's mid-range isolation approach. Makes his shooting efficiency look even better. But you got to be a hell of a tough shot-maker to make it work. And a willing passer.

It's a shame Kobe was too focused on the scoring aspect because I think he was a better passer than MJ. But Mike obviously had the better grasp of shot selection, balancing scoring and passing, and knowing when to dish it off.

[Charlie Sheen]

We are already at a point not even role players get pulled for doing it and missing. I don’t know that it can get much more prevalent until they add a 4 pointer. Coaches look the other way when 7th men pull up from 30.

Z-bo was ahead of the curve on that possession vs the Hawks :lol

[dankok8]

MJ was so good at keeping turnovers low for himself and also his team, especially during the second threepeat.

7.8 TOV% from '96 to '98 on a gargantuan 33.4 USG% and 31.05 points per 75 possessions scoring rate. They've only got on/off lineup data for 1997 onwards but he's comfortably #1 for RA-OTOV% (his team's turnover percentage on offense when he's on the court versus off it, adjusted for the strength of his teammates and opposition).

It's like the inverse effect of a guy on offense who can't reliably score and the defense can cheat off of to overload the guys who do move the needle. The data shows that bigs like Rudy increase their team's turnover rate on offense. Nerfs a lot of the offensive value they do bring from finishing and second-chance points.

Possession efficiency is one of the benefits of MJ's mid-range isolation approach. Makes his shooting efficiency look even better. But you got to be a hell of a tough shot-maker to make it work. And a willing passer.

It's a shame Kobe was too focused on the scoring aspect because I think he was a better passer than MJ. But Mike obviously had the better grasp of shot selection, balancing scoring and passing, and knowing when to dish it off.

Good post!

I assume the numbers you cite are RS numbers. PS turnover numbers are crazy for MJ as well and not just the second threepeat. MJ had historically low turnover rates in 1991 and 1993 playoffs as well. It flies over most people's heads when talking about his offensive efficiency.

[Im Still Ballin]

Good post!

I assume the numbers you cite are RS numbers. PS turnover numbers are crazy for MJ as well and not just the second threepeat. MJ had historically low turnover rates in 1991 and 1993 playoffs as well. It flies over most people's heads when talking about his offensive efficiency.

Just checked the playoff numbers. GOAT!

:bowdown:

Kobe's turnover numbers relative to offensive load weren't as good but they were a decent MJ encore. Shai is definitely the true spiritual successor to this archetype:

2023-24 regular season: 31.8 points per 75, 63.6% TS (110 TS+), 8.4 TO%
2023-24 playoffs: 28.9 points per 75, 58.2% TS (102.8 playoff average TS+), 7.8 TO%

[dankok8]

Just checked the playoff numbers. GOAT!

:bowdown:

Kobe's turnover numbers relative to offensive load weren't as good but they were a decent MJ encore. Shai is definitely the true spiritual successor to this archetype:

2023-24 regular season: 31.8 points per 75, 63.6% TS (110 TS+), 8.4 TO%
2023-24 playoffs: 28.9 points per 75, 58.2% TS (102.8 playoff average TS+), 7.8 TO%

Wow Shai playoff scoring efficiency wasn't good this year. I thought he was at least +3 rTS or something. But still the low turnover rate makes him a well above average efficiency hub.

EDIT: Iverson is a good example of a player with a poor scoring efficiency but a historically low turnover rate so overall he's probably above average in terms of offensive efficiency.

[ILLsmak]

Wow Shai playoff scoring efficiency wasn't good this year. I thought he was at least +3 rTS or something. But still the low turnover rate makes him a well above average efficiency hub.

EDIT: Iverson is a good example of a player with a poor scoring efficiency but a historically low turnover rate so overall he's probably above average in terms of offensive efficiency.

Ivo is arguably better than mj and kobe on that. It cannot be overstated how important getting inside on the d is if you get the ball on the rim. Mj and kobe did well to get jumpers and ai shot some bad js, too, but I feel like ai shifted the d the most, and if he’s not turning it over, it’s efficient for the level of volume.

That’s something the new nba forgets sometimes, how continually assaulting rim is better than the ts% increase from 3s. Bron ball was predicated on that, but that’s why it’s hard to trust a team like Cs for instance. Gsw was definitely an anomaly. There may never be another shooting dynasty. Sounds wild, but think about what had to come together to make it work.

-Smak

[3ba11]

Jordan's upfakes ALONE make him a more skilled scorer than Lebron - when do you see Lebron use upfakes and headfakes?.. How about a jab-step from Lebron - complete garbage - he does it once in a while but it's absolute trash.

Jordan had the best upfake, jab-step, first-step, hop-step and drop-step (pound-for-pound)

[Gudo]

Jordan's upfakes ALONE make him a more skilled scorer than Lebron - when do you see Lebron use upfakes and headfakes?.. How about a jab-step from Lebron - complete garbage - he does it once in a while but it's absolute trash.

Jordan had the best upfake, jab-step, first-step, hop-step and drop-step (pound-for-pound)

Can you imagine if Lebron had to play by old rules where they would call him on traveling, offensive fouls for warding off and stiffarming, and flopping? He basically would be out of ideas.

[90sgoat]

Then again you had Kawhi who was extremely efficient at exactly that playstyle.

That said, MJ in this clip really has lost most his athleticism. Very pedestrian lift here, but still very successful.

[ralph_i_el]

Then again you had Kawhi who was extremely efficient at exactly that playstyle.

That said, MJ in this clip really has lost most his athleticism. Very pedestrian lift here, but still very successful.

He also had a crazy low turnover rate at his peak.