2024-25 Season NBA Rank Top 10

[Hey Yo]

Link provides details, reasoning and last years ranking

10.Ant
9.KD
8.Embiid
7.LeBron
6.Curry
5.Tatum
4.SGA
3.Giannis
2.Luka
1.Jokic


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/41796364/nba-rank-2024-rankings-top-10-players-league

[Mask the Embiid]

:roll::roll:



Hahahahahahahahahahahahhaahhahaa

[highwhey]

uuuummmmm where's Booker? do you want to be banned?

[Carbine]

The NBA is a very long season so while Lebron played better in a short format like the Olympics I couldn't put him above Ant who is at that age where he's hungry and his body is in peak form to handle the workload.

Tatum ain't top 5 either that's crazy.

[Full Court]

The NBA is a very long season so while Lebron played better in a short format like the Olympics I couldn't put him above Ant who is at that age where he's hungry and his body is in peak form to handle the workload.

Tatum ain't top 5 either that's crazy.

Agree, and that seems to be the general consensus. It also shows the Celtics depth. It had been a long time since a team won the title without a top 5 player.

[Carbine]

2014 and 2004 would be the only other teams without a top 5 player to win a title in the last 40 years probably

[Real Men Wear Green]

The general consensus is that a first team AllNBA player is not a top 5 player? Someone should have told the voters that what they think isn't what they think.

[Full Court]

The general consensus is that a first team AllNBA player is not a top 5 player? Someone should have told the voters that what they think isn't what they think.

One hundred (100) people select the All NBA teams. They do not speak for the consensus of millions of fans.

[Real Men Wear Green]

One hundred (100) people select the All NBA teams. They do not speak for the consensus of millions of fans.

And the GM Survey doesn't speak for the fans either. And when Tatum starts in the allstar game, that doesn't soak for the fans, they let players vote as well, right? No, none of these things matters. Only thing that matters is the opinions of some (but not all) anonymous posters on this message board. Power to the people... but not that much, Tatum is still first team AllNBA, the best 3 according to the GM Survey, an allstar starter and on the cover of Sports Illustrated 70th anniversary issue and NBA 2K25 video game.

[Full Court]

And the GM Survey doesn't speak for the fans either. And when Tatum starts in the allstar game, that doesn't soak for the fans, they let players vote as well, right? No, none of these things matters. Only thing that matters is the opinions of some (but not all) anonymous posters on this message board. Power to the people... but not that much, Tatum is still first team AllNBA, the best 3 according to the GM Survey, an allstar starter and on the cover of Sports Illustrated 70th anniversary issue and NBA 2K25 video game.

Nobody's saying he's not an elite player. Probably even top 10. But I don't know anyone who's trying to say he's better than Jokic, Luka, SGA, Giannis, KD. Top five is a MASSIVE stretch.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Nobody's saying he's not an elite player. Probably even top 10. But I don't know anyone who's trying to say he's better than Jokic, Luka, SGA, Giannis, KD. Top five is a MASSIVE stretch.

So he hasn't made first team AllNBA (over Durant) for three straight seasons? Oh wait, I forgot that honors like AllNBA and the GM Survey don't matter, apparently the only thing worth discussing is your opinion.

Lol at you not mentioning Lebron James. Your bias is getting in the way of your bias.

[Axe]

So he hasn't made first team AllNBA (over Durant) for three straight seasons? Oh wait, I forgot that honors like AllNBA and the GM Survey don't matter, apparently the only thing worth discussing is your opinion.

Lol at you not mentioning Lebron James. Your bias is getting in the way of your bias.
:oldlol:

[Airupthere]

Is the capability of playing back to back games factored in?

[ShawkFactory]

The general consensus is that a first team AllNBA player is not a top 5 player? Someone should have told the voters that what they think isn't what they think.

Dude Tatum is almost certainly not a top 5 player..

He's easily top 10 and the Celtics are the best team in the league. Is that okay?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Dude Tatum is almost certainly not a top 5 player..

He's easily top 10 and the Celtics are the best team in the league. Is that okay?
It's silly for you to say he's certainly not top 5 when he's been first team All-NBA 3 straight years.

[ShawkFactory]

It's silly for you to say he's certainly not top 5 when he's been first team All-NBA 3 straight years.

Do you think that the all-nba team is literally just the 5 best players in the league?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Do you think that the all-nba team is literally just the 5 best players in the league?
"The All-NBA voting criteria for the 2023–24 season include:









Positionless format
The NBA adopted a positionless format for the All-NBA teams, similar to how the NBA was originally structured from 1947–1955. The five players with the highest point totals make up the first team, regardless of position. "






Now anyone can have their own opinions and disagree with the selections but its an indisputable fact that Tatum was one of the top 5 vote-getters.

[ShawkFactory]

"The All-NBA voting criteria for the 2023–24 season include:









Positionless format
The NBA adopted a positionless format for the All-NBA teams, similar to how the NBA was originally structured from 1947–1955. The five players with the highest point totals make up the first team, regardless of position. "






Now anyone can have their own opinions and disagree with the selections but its an indisputable fact that Tatum was one of the top 5 vote-getters.

Nobody is disputing that.

But is he really better than Curry? Or Embiid? Or even Lebron?

It's an uphill battle actually arguing that.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Nobody is disputing that.

But is he really better than Curry? Or Embiid? Or even Lebron?

It's an uphill battle actually arguing that.
Not if you care about durability. Philly got knocked out in the first round because the games Embiid missed cost Playoff position and then his injury lingering limited his effectiveness. Bucks have been out in the first round 2 straight years because Giannis went out. James stayed healthy for the first time in 4 years but I wouldn't count on 70+ games at his normal level at 40 years old, there's a reason they're a play-in dynasty. Meanwhile aside from the year he caught covid Tatum has been highly reliable, what games he does miss are due to the modern approach to rest, not real injuries.

[Full Court]

So he hasn't made first team AllNBA (over Durant) for three straight seasons? Oh wait, I forgot that honors like AllNBA and the GM Survey don't matter, apparently the only thing worth discussing is your opinion.

Lol at you not mentioning Lebron James. Your bias is getting in the way of your bias.

Uh, that's what a forum is for - discussing opinions.

:biggums:

And Lebron James is clearly not top five either. I would put Tatum above him. You get bothered awfully easy by peoples' opinions.

[dankok8]

Embiid is too low. He's better than everyone outside of the top 3.

Otherwise pretty good list.

[Neal Romer]

Nobody is disputing that.

But is he really better than Curry? Or Embiid? Or even Lebron?

It's an uphill battle actually arguing that.




It's only because hes on the Celtics and they win. Writers/Voters are very cliche and use simple unnuanced conventions for these things. Nobody who actually watches is TAKING Tatum over Lebron, or Ant, or 10-15 other guys if they absolutely need to win a game or a playoff series.

RMWG just defends every Celtic from every critique anywhere because he has nothing else going for him and thats his source of pride. Dont expect to "reason" with him on anything regarding the Celtics. It's more important to him that Jason Tatum be revered than... well, than anything

[Real Men Wear Green]

Uh, that's what a forum is for - discussing opinions.

:biggums:

And Lebron James is clearly not top five either. I would put Tatum above him. You get bothered awfully easy by peoples' opinions.
The question being asked is whether or not Tatum is "consensus" top 5. That's why the importance of a single fan like yourself isn't nearly as important as Tatum being first team All-NBA 3 years straight, or the hundreds of thousands of fans that put him in the ASG as a starter.

For argument's sake, let's say he's in reality 6th or 7th best player. Is the difference between the 5th and 6th best player ever big enough to justify calling that player top 5 irrational? In order to go that far you have to take Tatum out of the top 15 like this idiot:

It's only because hes on the Celtics and they win. Writers/Voters are very cliche and use simple unnuanced conventions for these things. Nobody who actually watches is TAKING Tatum over Lebron, or Ant, or 10-15 other guys if they absolutely need to win a game or a playoff series.

[ShawkFactory]

The question being asked is whether or not Tatum is "consensus" top 5. That's why the importance of a single fan like yourself isn't nearly as important as Tatum being first team All-NBA 3 years straight, or the hundreds of thousands of fans that put him in the ASG as a starter.

For argument's sake, let's say he's in reality 6th or 7th best player. Is the difference between the 5th and 6th best player ever big enough to justify calling that player top 5 irrational? In order to go that far you have to take Tatum out of the top 15 like this idiot:

In theory, no. 7 is not far from 5. But it is lower. I know Tatum is consistently available and does a lot of things really well. But if your life was on the line I know you aren't taking Tatum as your guy over Curry, Lebron, or Ant if you need to win a basketball game. I know you wouldn't.

[Manny98]

As much as I despise him, Embiid definitely belongs in the top 5

[Real Men Wear Green]

In theory, no. 7 is not far from 5. But it is lower. I know Tatum is consistently available and does a lot of things really well. But if your life was on the line I know you aren't taking Tatum as your guy over Curry, Lebron, or Ant if you need to win a basketball game. I know you wouldn't.
If the "I'll kill you if he misses this shot" terrorist ever caught me then for one game I wouldn't argue Curry. Lebron James is 40, and before last season had played under 60 games three straight seasons. He's better than Tatum for pure offense but Tatum does more as a rebounder by a small margin and as a defender by a wide margin. James offensive edge doesn't make up for where he comes up short in durability and defense. Ant has high potential and could have a better season next year but as of now Tatum has slight edges in ppg and shooting percentages, gets around three more rebounds per game, only trails by 0.2 assists per and can defend every position while Ant sticks to n1 through 3. One of the keys to the Celtic defense is that they can put Tatum on bigs.

[fourkicks44]

Embiid is too low. He's better than everyone outside of the top 3.

Otherwise pretty good list.


The reason that was given for the ranking was his injury issues last season.

Ok seems like a legit reason. However then Giannis is ranked higher at number 3. Giannis missed the playoffs due to injury while Embiid played in the playoffs. :confusedshrug:

[ShawkFactory]

Embiid is too low. He's better than everyone outside of the top 3.

Otherwise pretty good list.

Top 4. For me SGA is better.

But agreed he should be 5th.

[Axe]

The question being asked is whether or not Tatum is "consensus" top 5. That's why the importance of a single fan like yourself isn't nearly as important as Tatum being first team All-NBA 3 years straight, or the hundreds of thousands of fans that put him in the ASG as a starter.

For argument's sake, let's say he's in reality 6th or 7th best player. Is the difference between the 5th and 6th best player ever big enough to justify calling that player top 5 irrational? In order to go that far you have to take Tatum out of the top 15 like this idiot:
:yaohappy:

[Phoenix]

I think the only no-brainers in the top 5 are Jokic, Giannis, Luka and Embiid in whatever order you prefer. The 5th pick could arguably be SGA, Steph, KD depending on the day and week.

[MMM]

Tatum is closer to 5 than 10. If he shot closer to his usual self in the playoffs he would probably earned a top 5 position. Right now i think only Jokic, Giannis, Luka and Embiid have earned their top 5 positions by having recent stretches where theyve looked like the best in the world.

I think SGA/Tatum/Ant are 5th, 6th and 7th by default because guys like LBJ, Curry and KD aren't likely to carry their teams through 82 games plus playoffs. In a smaller sample the older stars are still better.

I think Tatum was ahead of SGA 2 years ago and maybe even a year ago but SGA just finished 2nd in mvp votes so he probably passed him in over the last season. Ant is getting closer to Tatum too and if he can sustain his shooting #s then he could be mentioned in top 5 convos.

I think Tatum has a huge opportunity to be looked more favorably in the next year or 2 if they win again. Yea his team is stacked now but he has also been a key contributor to less stacked teams and has had consistent deep runs in the playoffs.

He has the most playoff points and wins since he entered the league. I dont think he's just a top 10 player but he's not a teir 1 star either

[tpols]

Link provides details, reasoning and last years ranking

10.Ant
9.KD
8.Embiid
7.LeBron
6.Curry
5.Tatum
4.SGA
3.Giannis
2.Luka
1.Jokic


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/41796364/nba-rank-2024-rankings-top-10-players-league

For me:

1) Jokic
2) Luka
3) SGA
4) Curry
5) Giannis
6) AD / Lebron
7) Lebron / AD
8) Durant
9) Embiid
10) Jimmy Butler

HM Tatum, Ant, Booker, Brunson, Fox could all compete for the last spot. Probably forgetting somebody.

[tpols]

I don't see what the argument is for say like Tatum being way higher ranked than AD. For their playoff careers, AD averages more points on better efficiency, he's a better rebounder, and a signifigantly more impactful defender being a 7foot rim protector which is the most influential defensive position. What does Tatum do better? Passing? That may be it but he's mid at that too.

The Olympic super team showed us what the true pecking order was. Curry, Lebron, and AD were the best players. Durant also lit it up when he came back. Tatum was an afterthought and embiid looked mediocre.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Tatum is more valuable than David because before last year Davis had 36, 40 and 56 game seasons. The Olympics was humbling but doesn't matter. He's not going to average 5 points... unless you want to say that James is still the best player on the planet? Because if the Olympics truly dictates the order of player value then James is #1.

[tpols]

Curry led the team in points and dominated in the medal games, Lebron was awesome too scoring and quarterbacking the team, and AD was their most impactful player on defense. Can you imagine Boston with Anthony Davis or Lebron? That shit wouldn't even be fair.

So I mean yea... Lebron is still definitely one of the best players in the world. He's got ridiculous high IQ and veteran quarterback skill in a superman body that hasn't lost much of a step, ie he's still more athletic than 95% of pro ballers. I remember Kobe at his age was moving like a slug... so slow. I honestly don't know how Lebron hasn't aged like past legends who were shells of themselves with his mileage.

[Real Men Wear Green]

No, if we're going by the Olympics, James isn't just one of the best, he was the leader, he won whatever that team mvp awards was. He ran the offense as point forward. Even though he and Davis haven't been out of the first round in three years, he's the best player in the world, because apparently the Olympics are more important than anything.

If the Celtics had Davis or James they could win the championship if they stayed healthy, which I guess is much more impressive than winning the Championship, which they did with Tatum leading the team in postseason points, rebounds and assists after coming 0.3 apg away from leading the team in regular season points, rebounds and assists. For a 64 win team, who O will concede could have won 60+ games with Davis or James, if they stay healthy. I'm sure their 60+ win season world have been much more impressive than the 64 win season th he Celtics had. Moving on.

[Carbine]

I think it's fair to say Tatum is close to a top 5 regular season player. It's close enough to not be worth arguing over.

But when the playoffs roll around he is like top 15ish.

Considering that most people factor playoff ability far more than regular season there's just no way Tatum belongs in the top 5 discussion.

If we are being honest, Tatum playoff resume based on HIS play (not the teams achievements) is well below his regular season standards.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Some playoff stats since 2018, Tatum's rookie year.

Most playoff points: (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/which-player-has-the-most-playoff-points-since-2018)

Jayson Tatum is first.

Most playoff assists (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=most+playoff+assists+since+2017-2018):

Tatum is fifth.

Most playoff rebounds: (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=most+playoff+rebounds+since+2017-2018)

Tatum is second.

Most playoff points before age 27, all time:
(https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-playoff-points-scored-by-a-player-before-age-27)
Tatum is first.

He does all this... leading (along with Jaylen Brown) the Celtics to 5 (I think) conference finals, 2 NBA finals and one championship... has tied the record for points in a Game 7, has the record for points in a play-in game... and you say his playoff resume isn't good enough.

[tpols]

The Olympics showed us the pecking order of a bunch of NBA players. Tatum wasn't even getting burn over Devin Booker much less top 5 superstars. If he was that good he would've been playing a lot.

[Real Men Wear Green]

His shot was off and that made him a bad complimentary player to James. Sucks but it happened. He's still first team AllNBA. All those inconvenient playoff records you're ignoring still happened.

[Phoenix]

The Olympics showed us the pecking order of a bunch of NBA players. Tatum wasn't even getting burn over Devin Booker much less top 5 superstars. If he was that good he would've been playing a lot.

Problem was Lebron and KD were the guys in front of him, there's just not much opportunity left after those two.

[tpols]

Problem was Lebron and KD were the guys in front of him, there's just not much opportunity left after those two.

Eh... I feel like Tatum could definitely start at the 2 on a super team. He's basically a tall shooting guard.

[Phoenix]

Eh... I feel like Tatum could definitely start at the 2 on a super team. He's basically a tall shooting guard.

On that front he was competing with ANT and Booker. For whatever reason he didn't distinguish himself in any sense to justify playing time over them or the Bron/KD combo.

[MMM]

I think it's fair to say Tatum is close to a top 5 regular season player. It's close enough to not be worth arguing over.

But when the playoffs roll around he is like top 15ish.

Considering that most people factor playoff ability far more than regular season there's just no way Tatum belongs in the top 5 discussion.

If we are being honest, Tatum playoff resume based on HIS play (not the teams achievements) is well below his regular season standards.

What 15 players are better than Tatum in the playoffs? If you want to say his team was stacked this year, ok, but what about the other years he was leading his team deep in the playoffs.

How many of these players have led their team to the finals like Tatum did in 22, or are 5-2 in game 7s (1 loss as a rookie to Bron the other 1 he got hurt in the first possession)

[Carbine]

Some playoff stats since 2018, Tatum's rookie year.

Most playoff points: (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/which-player-has-the-most-playoff-points-since-2018)

Jayson Tatum is first.

Most playoff assists (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=most+playoff+assists+since+2017-2018):

Tatum is fifth.

Most playoff rebounds: (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=most+playoff+rebounds+since+2017-2018)

Tatum is second.

Most playoff points before age 27, all time:
(https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-playoff-points-scored-by-a-player-before-age-27)
Tatum is first.

He does all this... leading (along with Jaylen Brown) the Celtics to 5 (I think) conference finals, 2 NBA finals and one championship... has tied the record for points in a Game 7, has the record for points in a play-in game... and you say his playoff resume isn't good enough.

Tatum has played significantly more games than the next best superstar.

113 for Tatum in that timespan
72 for Curry

Of course he's going to have counting stats over other players.

He has had a couple MONSTER games in the playoffs over his 7 year playoff career but overall he has not played close to his regular season self.

It's OK. I had to go through it with Manning. He had a lot of time to get it together, they are favorites to win the next 3 titles.

[Real Men Wear Green]

You do know the reason why he has played in more is that he helps the Celtics win, don't you? Maybe you don't realize this but for a player to have led a team to 5 conference finals as the top scorer with two finals and a championship would be considered great. To do it before the age of 27 is unheard of.

And bringing up manning is hilarious. Manning is one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time... and even then he didn't make his first Superbowl until he was 30.

Tatum was playing in the Finals at the age of 24. Attacking Tatum for his playoff history is extremely poorly thought out in your part. Tell me which players in the NBA today had accomplished more at the age of 26?

That challenge is especially hard considering the fact no one in NBA history had more playoffs points at the age of 26...

[Carbine]

I don't put any stock into how many conference finals he has played in. You either win or you lose, nobody recites how many conference title series somebody played in when judging a career.

It's about titles. Tatum has one where he didn't get either the ECF MVP or FMVP. It's not because Brown lit the world on fire either, those things were up for grabs if Tatum just played like his regular season self. That "championship run" from a so called best player last year was one of the weakest of the last 40 years.

I'm speaking about Tatums play, not the Celtics. You can play below your standards and still win. You can also play above and lose....

[Real Men Wear Green]

You seem determined to ignore everything positive Tatum has done. But since it's either you win or you lose, James hasn't done anything in 4 years. Neither has Davis. Doncic struggled in the Finals so he accomplished nothing. Ant only made the Conference Finals so he did nothing. Embiid? Nothing. Durant has been nothing since he left G State. Since you want to hold Tatum to this ridiculous standard.

[tpols]

Tatum is more valuable than David because before last year Davis had 36, 40 and 56 game seasons. The Olympics was humbling but doesn't matter. He's not going to average 5 points... unless you want to say that James is still the best player on the planet? Because if the Olympics truly dictates the order of player value then James is #1.


36/12/4/3 on supreme efficency to start the season.

Theres... absolutely no way Jayson Tatum is better than Anthony Davis. He's literally... easily better on both sides of the court. And it's not even that close. Injury is the only thing you can hope for.

But this is a perfect example of "the winning spotlight" theory that has been promoted around here.

Given how much you defend Boston players, AD on the Celtics would probably make you fall in love.

[ShawkFactory]

36/12/4/3 on supreme efficency to start the season.

Theres... absolutely no way Jayson Tatum is better than Anthony Davis. He's literally... easily better on both sides of the court. And it's not even that close. Injury is the only thing you can hope for.

But this is a perfect example of "the winning spotlight" theory that has been promoted around here.

Given how much you defend Boston players, AD on the Celtics would probably make you fall in love.

Tatum has had just as great of a start.

[tpols]

Tatum has had just as great of a start.

Didn't realize Tatum was operating on 157 ORTG. Which is insane. When he was in the negative in the Finals last year. Seems his game comes down to whether his 3s go in or not entirely. If not, he's mid. If yes, he goes full Kobe.

[ShawkFactory]

Didn't realize Tatum was operating on 157 ORTG. Which is insane. When he was in the negative in the Finals last year. Seems his game comes down to whether his 3s go in or not entirely. If not, he's mid. If yes, he goes full Kobe.

Idk if it’s the freshness of the season or him being pissed off about not getting playing time in the Olympics but he’s playing both angry and smart. Granted it’s early but this is the best I’ve ever seen him look.

[tontoz]

I think Tatum at 5 is right. The 4 ahead of him are a tier above him IMO. I think Tatum is at the top of the next tier.

People are making too much of his shooting slump late last season. He shot 37% from three for the season but went cold late in the year which carried over to the playoffs and Olympics.

Part time players like Embiid and AD have no case over him.

[tpols]

I think Tatum at 5 is right. The 4 ahead of him are a tier above him IMO. I think Tatum is at the top of the next tier.

People are making too much of his shooting slump late last season. He shot 37% from three for the season but went cold late in the year which carried over to the playoffs and Olympics.

Part time players like Embiid and AD have no case over him.

I'm not even an embiid fan, but he would be a Champion on the Celtics.

Boston should've won the title in 2022 about to go up 3-1 @ home and Tatum totally shit the bed. And even in 2024 where they didn't even face a legit contender until the Finals, he still shit the bed and the Celtics still won.

As talents, AD and Embiid are both better than Tatum. To say they have no case over him is beyond preposterous.

[tontoz]

I'm not even an embiid fan, but he would be a Champion on the Celtics.

Boston should've won the title in 2022 about to go up 3-1 @ home and Tatum totally shit the bed. And even in 2024 where they didn't even face a legit contender until the Finals, he still shit the bed and the Celtics still won.

As talents, AD and Embiid are both better than Tatum. To say they have no case over him is beyond preposterous.


Actually it's very easy. Embiid can't even make the conference finals in the weak east. He lost to the Hawks ffs and had a meltdown against the Raps. He's already skipping games :facepalm


Over the last 4 seasons Tatum has played 288 games, Davis 208. That is a huge difference and a big reason why the Lakers have either missed the playoffs or been in the play in.

When the Lakers made the wcf it was a running joke on TNT that AD would only show up every other game.

[tpols]

Embiid has been underwhelming in the playoffs at times for sure, but he hasn't really been playing on a Boston level team talent wise. Guy averaged 33/11/6 in the playoffs last year and lost in the 1st round to the better team. Do you want him to hang 50 a night? Does Tatum even remotely change that team result?

No he doesn't.

Overall, to say Embiid and AD aren't even close to Tatum is a level of delusion that needs to be investigated. This is some CTE level brain damage stuff that an individual would need to have to even begin to formulate such an opinion.

[tontoz]

Embiid has been underwhelming in the playoffs at times for sure, but he hasn't really been playing on a Boston level team talent wise. Guy averaged 33/11/6 in the playoffs last year and lost in the 1st round to the better team. Do you want him to hang 50 a night? Does Tatum even remotely change that team result?

No he doesn't.

Overall, to say Embiid and AD aren't even close to Tatum is a level of delusion that needs to be investigated. This is some CTE level brain damage stuff that an individual would need to have to even begin to formulate such an opinion.


Actually it's just common sense. Guys aren't that valuable on the bench, or if they spend their off-season not touching a basketball for months and come into camp out of shape

[tpols]

Actually it's just common sense. Guys aren't that valuable on the bench, or if they spend their off-season not touching a basketball for months and come into camp out of shape

If Embiid sits out the whole year after getting his bag? Sure. But as of now there's no situation where Tatum ever wins with the Sixers in his place, and vice versa Embiid could have easily won with some of these Boston teams. The Celtics are simply a superior franchise. And Embiid has the talent to far surpass what Tatum did when the Celtica actually won.

And AD on Boston would be a total joke. If they dominated the Finals last year with Tatum shitting the bed I can't even fathom what they'd do with AD production.

[tontoz]

If Embiid sits out the whole year after getting his bag? Sure. But as of now there's no situation where Tatum ever wins with the Sixers in his place, and vice versa Embiid could have easily won with some of these Boston teams. The Celtics are simply a superior franchise. And Embiid has the talent to far surpass what Tatum did when the Celtica actually won.

And AD on Boston would be a total joke. If they dominated the Finals last year with Tatum shitting the bed I can't even fathom what they'd do with AD production.



Right because AD was so dominant in the playoffs when the Lakers made the wcf....oh wait

Tatum's ability to guard the Mavs center is what totally disrupted their offense.

[tpols]

AD averaged 25/14 on tremendous shooting in the 2023 playoffs spanning 3 rounds. And 28/16 in the 1st round last year. All on great efficiency.

:roll:

And he played every game.

[tontoz]

AD averaged 25/14 on tremendous shooting in the 2023 playoffs spanning 3 rounds. And 28/16 in the 1st round last year. All on great efficiency.

:roll:

And he played every game.

Actually he didn't. He averaged 22.6 PPG in the 2023 playoffs with a TS of 60% which is pretty good but nothing special.

I guess you have to play loose with the facts when you stan a player like AD.

[tpols]

If you're hating on somebody for doing 25/15 on 60+TS across two years of playoffs series you already lost the debate when your guy produced and shot worse than that when it counted.

It's just silly to try and use Anthony Davis playoff numbers against him. I know your a mathematician which is why it's even more surprising you'd choose to go that route. It's some what... mind bottling.

[Carbine]

Embiid had one of the most stacked rosters of this generation and lost to the Kawhi Raptors. It's not a given he would have won with the Celtics last year, although with how easy their road was to winning it all it wouldn't surprise me either.

[tontoz]

AD averaged 25/14 on tremendous shooting in the 2023 playoffs spanning 3 rounds. And 28/16 in the 1st round last year. All on great efficiency.

:roll:

And he played every game.


So were you deliberately lying here, or were you just ignorant?

FYI Tatum just averaged 25 PPG in a title run with a TS of 55%. Is 5% really the difference between " shitting the bed" and "tremendous" shooting?

[tpols]

Embiid had one of the most stacked rosters of this generation and lost to the Kawhi Raptors. It's not a given he would have won with the Celtics last year, although with how easy their road was to winning it all it wouldn't surprise me either.

Cmon man. You can hate me all you want, but their path through the east was totally free and a joke. And the fact that they beat Dallas so easily with Tatum shooting like trash means they definitely would've won with Embiid. Guy averaged 30+/10+ in the playoffs last year. It would take an ultimate meltdown for them to have lost and even then they still could've won.

[Real Men Wear Green]

36/12/4/3 on supreme efficency to start the season.

Theres... absolutely no way Jayson Tatum is better than Anthony Davis. He's literally... easily better on both sides of the court. And it's not even that close. Injury is the only thing you can hope for.

But this is a perfect example of "the winning spotlight" theory that has been promoted around here.

Given how much you defend Boston players, AD on the Celtics would probably make you fall in love.

Tatum is averaging 31 points 8 assists and 7.5 rebounds on 60% shooting while having yet to play a minute on the fourth quarter seeing as you want to be stupid enough to run wild on statistics through 2 basketball games.

[RRR3]

If you're hating on somebody for doing 25/15 on 60+TS across two years of playoffs series you already lost the debate when your guy produced and shot worse than that when it counted.

It's just silly to try and use Anthony Davis playoff numbers against him. I know your a mathematician which is why it's even more surprising you'd choose to go that route. It's some what... mind bottling.
TTROLLS :roll: :roll: :roll:



God you are just pure unintentional comedy :roll:

[Neal Romer]

So were you deliberately lying here, or were you just ignorant?

FYI Tatum just averaged 25 PPG in a title run with a TS of 55%. Is 5% really the difference between " shitting the bed" and "tremendous" shooting?


He salvaged that a bit with some padding when games were finally put out of reach. He was definitely a minimal offensive factor for long stretches of many games when the score was close. I mean theres no agenda here, numerous people with all sorts of different rooting interests noticed and mentioned it.

Im not arguing about the AD comparison, just saying Tatum's playoff run was a good example of how numbers can be misleading. In this case theyre overstating his impact. Everyone knows what they saw.

[RRR3]

Cmon man. You can hate me all you want, but their path through the east was totally free and a joke. And the fact that they beat Dallas so easily with Tatum shooting like trash means they definitely would've won with Embiid. Guy averaged 30+/10+ in the playoffs last year. It would take an ultimate meltdown for them to have lost and even then they still could've won.
Being the best team often means your path is relatively easy, what a surprise. Stunning revelation from you as usual.

[tontoz]

He salvaged that a bit with some padding when games were finally put out of reach. He was definitely a minimal offensive factor for long stretches of many games when the score was close. I mean theres no agenda here, numerous people with all sorts of different rooting interests noticed and mentioned it.

Im not arguing about the AD comparison, just saying Tatum's playoff run was a good example of how numbers can be misleading. In this case theyre overstating his impact. Everyone knows what they saw.


Tatum shot 28% from 3 in the playoffs. That is what people were focusing on. They probably didn't notice that he shot 86% from the foul line on 7 attempts per game. Whether you noticed it or not the points still count.

For the postseason Tatum led the team in points, rebounds and assists, the latter two by a wide margin. Just the facts, which don't care about your feelings.

[Neal Romer]

TTROLLS :roll: :roll: :roll:



God you are just pure unintentional comedy :roll:




https://youtu.be/rSfebOXSBOE?si=7_jzKdO708FBQSR9

[Neal Romer]

Tatum shot 28% from 3 in the playoffs. That is what people were focusing on. They probably didn't notice that he shot 86% from the foul line on 7 attempts per game. Whether you noticed it or not the points still count.

For the postseason Tatum led the team in points, rebounds and assists, the latter two by a wide margin. Just the facts, which don't care about your feelings.

I dont have any feelings on this issue.

He rebounded and defended well, thats why I said his offensive impact.

It also helps to lead in assists when your teammates make shots off your passes and you miss off theirs.

Numbers dont tell the whole story. Thats why you have to go by what you see, IF you have a sense of what to evaluate. It's actually you thats filling in the incomplete pictures around the numbers with what you want or assume to be true. All youve done is cite numbers, so we cant even be certain you watched the games.

[Neal Romer]

Tatum shot 28% from 3 in the playoffs. That is what people were focusing on. They probably didn't notice that he shot 86% from the foul line on 7 attempts per game. Whether you noticed it or not the points still count.For the postseason Tatum led the team in points, rebounds and assists, the latter two by a wide margin. Just the facts, which don't care about your feelings.I dont have any feelings on this issue. He rebounded and defended well, thats why I said his offensive impact.It also helps to lead in assists when your teammates make shots off your passes and you miss off theirs.Numbers dont tell the whole story. Thats why you have to go by what you see, IF you have a sense of what to evaluate. It's actually you thats filling in the incomplete pictures around the numbers with what you want or assume to be true. All youve done is cite numbers, so we cant even be certain you watched the games.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Embiid is knowingly forfeiting his right to awards. He hasn't played a game yet (so much for impressing with two games, huh?) and has stated he will not play in any more back-to-backs. He would have to have an overwhelming playoff performance advantage to make up for all of that. He had never been past the second round. So that argument is over.

Davis has not gone as far as saying he won't play in back-to-backs but when is the last time he did? His injury history is lengthy, and we've already documented all the game he's missed since the Laker championship. The "how great would Boston be with AD" argument is stupid. He's not going to improve on a 64 win season or NBA championship. Especially not when he's going to miss more games.

[Neal Romer]

Tatum shot 28% from 3 in the playoffs. That is what people were focusing on. They probably didn't notice that he shot 86% from the foul line on 7 attempts per game. Whether you noticed it or not the points still count.For the postseason Tatum led the team in points, rebounds and assists, the latter two by a wide margin. Just the facts, which don't care about your feelings.I dont have any feelings on this issue. He rebounded and defended well, thats why I said his offensive impact.It also helps to lead in assists when your teammates make shots off your passes and you miss off theirs.Numbers dont tell the whole story. Thats why you have to go by what you see, IF you have a sense of what to evaluate. It's actually you thats filling in the incomplete pictures around the numbers with what you want or assume to be true. All youve done is cite numbers, so we cant even be certain you watched the games.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Accidental thread lock, sorry

[Real Men Wear Green]

I dont have any feelings on this issue. He rebounded and defended well, thats why I said his offensive impact.It also helps to lead in assists when your teammates make shots off your passes and you miss off theirs.Numbers dont tell the whole story. Thats why you have to go by what you see, IF you have a sense of what to evaluate. It's actually you thats filling in the incomplete pictures around the numbers with what you want or assume to be true. All youve done is cite numbers, so we cant even be certain you watched the games.

You do not get more assists by missing shots when teammates pass. That statement made no sense. Tatum was just off from three. One negative issue doesn't change the fact that he was and is an overwhelming positive. Leading the NBA champion in playoff points, rebounds and assists means a guy is a great player.

[tpols]

Accidental thread lock, sorry


I was about to respond to RRR3's post about me being an idiot and thought you locked the thread because my prior case was so solid, that it might have got you up in your feelings.

:lol

I guess I proved him right huh?

[Real Men Wear Green]

I was about to respond to RRR3's post about me being an idiot and thought you locked the thread because my prior case was so solid, that it might have got you up in your feelings.

:lol

I guess I proved him right huh?

Feel free to post whatever you were going to. If it's as dumb as your other crap it would make no difference. If you had a point to make one would think that you would just post it instead of this excuse.

[tpols]

Feel free to post whatever you were going to. If it's as dumb as your other crap it would make no difference. If you had a point to make one would think that you would just post it instead of this excuse.

Bro I threw you an alley oop with that question and you muffed the punt. Smh. it's all good though.

[Neal Romer]

You do not get more assists by missing shots when teammates pass. That statement made no sense. Tatum was just off from three. One negative issue doesn't change the fact that he was and is an overwhelming positive. Leading the NBA champion in playoff points, rebounds and assists means a guy is a great player.

Every statement lacks sense when you have bad reading comprehension.

It's easier to get more assists than your teammates if THEY CONVERT YOUR PASSES, WHILE YOURE NOT CONVERTING THEIRS.

Do you understand? Tatum making more shots would have increased his teammates assist numbers, thereby narrowing the gap between theirs and Tatum's respective assists.

[tontoz]

Every statement lacks sense when you have bad reading comprehension.

It's easier to get more assists than your teammates if THEY CONVERT YOUR PASSES, WHILE YOURE NOT CONVERTING THEIRS.

Do you understand? Tatum making more shots would have increased his teammates assist numbers, thereby narrowing the gap between theirs and Tatum's respective assists.


The problem is that even if read correctly your statement
is still dumb. Tatum shot 51% on 2s. How much better do you expect him to shoot on 2s?

If he made half a 3 per game more that would mean he would shoot 37% from 3. That wouldn't have any noticable effect on the assist numbers of his teammates.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Every statement lacks sense when you have bad reading comprehension.

It's easier to get more assists than your teammates if THEY CONVERT YOUR PASSES, WHILE YOURE NOT CONVERTING THEIRS.

Do you understand? Tatum making more shots would have increased his teammates assist numbers, thereby narrowing the gap between theirs and Tatum's respective assists.

Tatum averaged 2 more assists per game than Holiday. Does Holiday normally get a third of his assists by passing to Tatum? I would tell you to stop being stupid but you obviously can't.

[Neal Romer]

Tatum averaged 2 more assists per game than Holiday. Does Holiday normally get a third of his assists by passing to Tatum? I would tell you to stop being stupid but you obviously can't.

I knew you would say exactly this. This pedantic response about how "tatum would still lead if you tabulate the formula to convert his attempt metric" was the only cringey out you had to try and save face. My point wasnt about whether Tatum would remain the assist leader or not, it was about how numbers can be misleading it leave an incomplete picture.

You might as well have corrected my grammar and used that for a "gotcha." Your dork levels are needle-breaking.

Youre just an embarrassing human.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I knew you would say exactly this. This pedantic response about how "tatum would still lead if you tabulate the formula to convert his attempt metric" was the only cringey out you had to try and save face. My point wasnt about whether Tatum would remain the assist leader or not, it was about how numbers can be misleading it leave an incomplete picture.

You might as well have corrected my grammar and used that for a "gotcha." Your dork levels are needle-breaking.

Youre just an embarrassing human.
Your point is nonexistent. If you knew I was going to point out why your post is stupid then you should not have posted it to begin with.

[Neal Romer]

The problem is that even if read correctly your statement
is still dumb. Tatum shot 51% on 2s. How much better do you expect him to shoot on 2s?

If he made half a 3 per game more that would mean he would shoot 37% from 3. That wouldn't have any noticable effect on the assist numbers of his teammates.


Yeah, I know. This was your face-saving gotcha. Youre trying to salvage a lost argument instead of just adjusting to the truth and upping your level.

Thats your thing, so g'head and do your thang.

[Neal Romer]

Your point is nonexistent. If you knew I was going to point out why your post is stupid then you should not have posted it to begin with.


Yeah. Good point.

I wonder which of us most people here think is more intelligent.

We dont need to ask everyone. You and I know the truth. Youre trying to save your argument for that very reason. You feel stupid because you sound stupid, because you are stupid. And youre looking for a way to deny it, divert it, undo it. But there is no way out for you.

[tontoz]

Yeah, I know. This was your face-saving gotcha. Youre trying to salvage a lost argument instead of just adjusting to the truth and upping your level.

Thats your thing, so g'head and do your thang.


Face saving? No, you were just wrong. If you say 2+2=17, and I say no it actually equals 4, that is just a fact.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Yeah. Good point.

I wonder which of us most people here think is more intelligent.

We dont need to ask everyone. You and I know the truth. Youre trying to save your argument for that very reason. You feel stupid because you sound stupid, because you are stupid. And youre looking for a way to deny it, divert it, undo it. But there is no way out for you.

No amount of babble will change the fact that Tatum led the Celtics in playoff assists. You are arguing with a simple statement of fact. But feel free to ask everyone if they think you're smart. Just do it in the Off Court forum, thanks.

[Neal Romer]

Face saving? No, you were just wrong. If you say 2+2=17, and I say no it actually equals 4, that is just a fact.

Yeah, no, youre right. Tatum was an offensive stud in the playoffs. It's not whatever everyone remembers seeing but you have the box score.

I guess people didnt have the box score at the time. Either that or they disregarded it because they knew what they saw.

But you have a box score line 5 months later and thats the evidence youre using, so your version is correct. 2+2=4. It all adds up.

[Neal Romer]

No amount of babble will change the fact that Tatum led the Celtics in playoff assists. You are arguing with a simple statement of fact. But feel free to ask everyone if they think you're smart. Just do it in the Off Court forum, thanks.


Yes, Hall Monitor. As you wish.

[tontoz]

Yeah, no, youre right. Tatum was an offensive stud in the playoffs. It's not whatever everyone remembers seeing but you have the box score.

I guess people didnt have the box score at the time. Either that or they disregarded it because they knew what they saw.

But you have a box score line 5 months later and thats the evidence youre using, so your version is correct. 2+2=4. It all adds up.



Now I see why you try to discredit numbers. You don't understand them.

It is true that Tatum was in a slump with his jumper. However if he wasn't in a slump and shot normally that would result in less than one assist per game spread among his teammates.

Of course it goes without saying that some of these extra made shots would be unassisted, but considering who I am talking to I feel I should point it out.

[Neal Romer]

Now I see why you try to discredit numbers. You don't understand them.

It is true that Tatum was in a slump with his jumper. However if he wasn't in a slump and shot normally that would result in less than one assist per game spread among his teammates.

Of course it goes without saying that some of these extra made shots would be unassisted, but considering who I am talking to I feel I should point it out.


No I agree with you now. Tatum was a stud offensively throughout the playoffs.

Nobody saw it but you and the biggest dorkiest Celtics homer in existence. Only you two noticed, everyone else saw something different.

But youre looking at a box score 5 months later and that makes you right.

It's simple math!

[tontoz]

Tatum was a stud offensively throughout the playoffs.

Nobody saw it but you and the biggest dorkiest Celtics homer in existence. Only you two noticed, everyone else saw something different.

But youre looking at a box score 5 months later and that makes you right.


The straw man argument, the fall back option when you aren't capable of making a coherent argument.

Feel free to quote the post we said Tatum was a stud on offense. I won't hold my breath.

[Manny98]

Current Top 10 in my eyes

1. Jokic
2. Luka
3. Giannis
4. AD
5. Embiid
6. Shai
7. Tatum
8. LeBron
9. Curry
10. KD

[Neal Romer]

The straw man argument, the fall back option when you aren't capable of making a coherent argument.

Feel free to quote the post we said Tatum was a stud on offense. I won't hold my breath.

You posted Tatum's 25ppg with his TS% and I responded:


He salvaged that a bit with some padding when games were finally put out of reach. He was definitely a minimal offensive factor for long stretches of many games when the score was close.

You then proceeded to post more numbers and say "facts dont care about my feelings."

So... it seemed like you werent trying to have any context on the Tatum numbers. What I posted was true but it seems to have bothered you. And the implication of your response was he was every bit as good as the numbers suggest.

I dont know if you took my point about the context as an attack on your statement and got defensive or what. But you seemed to dig in when I pointed out something true and well documented about Tatum's performance. It seemed to put you in an emotional space for some reason.

[tontoz]

You posted Tatum's 25ppg with his TS% and I responded:



You then proceeded to post more numbers and say "facts dont care about my feelings."

So... it seemed like you werent trying to have any context on the Tatum numbers. What I posted was true but it seems to have bothered you. And the implication of your response was he was every bit as good as the numbers suggest.

I dont know if you took my point about the context as an attack on your statement and got defensive or what. But you seemed to dig in when I pointed out something true and well documented about Tatum's performance. It seemed to put you in an emotional space for some reason.


News flash, guys have been stat padding late in games long before Tatum was born. That is not something Tatum started.

My first post in the thread I said that Tatum had a shooting slump which started late in the regular season and lasted through the Olympics. I didn't try to pretend it didn't happen and I certainly never said he was a stud on offense. You just made that up to pretend you are making sense.

Trying to add context is one thing. An idiotic math fail example is something else entirely.

[tontoz]

For the record my biggest criticism of Tatum's game is that he takes too many long jumpers off the dribble. Even when he is shooting normally he isn't that good at making them.

[Full Court]

We're only a couple games into the season.....

But right now, AD is outplaying everyone in the league.

[Street Hunger]

Current Top 10 in my eyes

1. Jokic
2. Luka
3. Giannis
4. AD
5. Embiid
6. Shai
7. Tatum
8. LeBron
9. Curry
10. KD

Embiid doesn't deserve a mention yet