Serious question about Michael Cooper's Hall of Fame induction

[L.Kizzle]

When Michael Cooper was initially inducted into the Hall of Fame, I immediately shot it down.

I'm taking a closer look at it, and the selection is not that bad. He doesn't have the All-Star spots that 99.9% of Hall of Famers have, that eas my biggest concern.

Now, looking back at it. He's a 8x All-Defense selected player. Everyone with more than 8 selections (1st or 2nd teams) are in the Hall of Fame. Who are the players with more than 8? Jordan, Bobby Jones, Dennis Johnson, Olajuwon, Kidd, Payton and CP3 (9x) - Scott Pippin (10x) - Kareem (11x) - KG and Kobe (11x) and Duncan (15x.) All but two are top 75 NBA Players.

He also made the majority of his selections as a bench player. He is listed as having starting only 94 of 873 games. The season he was the DPOY, he only avg 27 minutes per game and started 2 games.

So, with his selection I can't see a bunch of other guys with no All-Star games. Bruce Bowen is the name that could benefit from Coops induction. 8x All-Defense and 5x All-Defense 1st Team. Same ad Cooper.

What do yall think now?

[1987_Lakers]

Inductions like this is why the basketball hall of fame is considered a joke compared to the football or baseball HOF.

[SouBeachTalents]

Critical role player on a dynasty, not even close to being a HOFer.

[L.Kizzle]

Inductions like this is why the basketball hall of fame is considered a joke compared to the football or baseball HOF.
Do defense players not get enough credit?
Literally everyone who has more than 8 All-Defense teams are in the Hall. Majority of the great scorers are in, why not a great defensive player?

[L.Kizzle]

Critical role player on a dynasty, not even close to being a HOFer.

Kind of like Dennis Rodman right?

[L.Kizzle]

I wonder if the standards could get any lower.

If that becomes the case, then it wouldn't be surprising to see someone like arvydas sabonis (who non-casuals know never made an all-star team btw) eventually get inducted into it someday.
He's been for almost 15 years.
Also, I'm sure no one even read the OP.

Is Michael Cooper not one of the greatest defenders in NBA History? If so, than shouldn't be inducted.

Hell, I'm still not sure I agree with his induction but I can see why he made it and my thoughts sre totally different then a few months ago when he got the call.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kind of like Dennis Rodman right?
Rodman was a multi time all-star & All-NBA, 2x DPOY, led the league in rebounding 7 years in a row, he’s significantly more accomplished than Cooper.

[iamgine]

Regardless of accomplishment, Cooper simply was not even a star level player. He was a bench player his whole career. Of course if the voters want him in because he's something special, and he WAS indeed a unique and special player, then that's fine. It's hall of fame after all, not hall of best player ever.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I have no problem with it. Makes Jrue Holiday and maybe even Derrick White eventually look like a stronger HoF candidate. But I'm not particularly concerned that the Hall only have guys that were top 10 in their prime or whatever other standard.

[John8204]

I have no problem with it. Makes Jrue Holiday and maybe even Derrick White eventually look like a stronger HoF candidate. But I'm not particularly concerned that the Hall only have guys that were top 10 in their prime or whatever other standard.

Holiday should get in being a two-time Olympic gold medalist. As for Michael Cooper...I'm fine with low tier outliers getting in to me the fact that the Hall is defined by the floor and not the ceiling is a good thing.

I don't know what an MLB hall of famer is the criteria is so random and the disqualifications are so stupid that it demeans the Hall. The NFL Hall of fame it feels like the waiting game guys will get in at some point. But with NBA we know who the best of the best are and then we move on to whats the worst you can be and still get selected.

Michael Cooper was a guy that was pitched to be in the Hall by Magic and Bird...he also has 7 rins thanks to his WNBA tenure

[pandiani17]

Rodman was a multi time all-star & All-NBA, 2x DPOY, led the league in rebounding 7 years in a row, he’s significantly more accomplished than Cooper.

This. It is not a good comparison.

[SouBeachTalents]

I have no problem with it. Makes Jrue Holiday and maybe even Derrick White eventually look like a stronger HoF candidate. But I'm not particularly concerned that the Hall only have guys that were top 10 in their prime or whatever other standard.
Jrue was a multi time all-star who was peaking at 19/7 over several seasons. Again, just a bad comparison with Cooper.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Jrue was a multi time all-star who was peaking at 19/7 over several seasons. Again, just a bad comparison with Cooper.

It's not exactly the same but there are plenty of people that would say a two time allstar doesn't belong. I'm figuring that Cooper making it makes Holiday look more likely. Is that inaccurate?

[L.Kizzle]

Rodman was a multi time all-star & All-NBA, 2x DPOY, led the league in rebounding 7 years in a row, he’s significantly more accomplished than Cooper.

Never said be wasn't any of that, however he's a role player. A superstar role player. Are you starting your franchise with him. You said he's an All-Star like he has 9 of them. He has 2 more than Michael Cooper.

[L.Kizzle]

Regardless of accomplishment, Cooper simply was not even a star level player. He was a bench player his whole career. Of course if the voters want him in because he's something special, and he WAS indeed a unique and special player, then that's fine. It's hall of fame after all, not hall of best player ever.

I mentioned all that in the OP. He wasn't a star.
He was a bench player, however he's an 8x All-Defense and won the award as a bench player. That has to count for something or maybe it doesn't.

[L.Kizzle]

Someone mentioned Rodman, Rodman played on Defensive teams. The Bad Boys and the Bulls were known for their defense.
Coop was on the run and gun Showtime Lakers.

[Nowoco]

Cooper wouldnt have had half of those All-defensive awards had he not been on the Showtime Lakers. If Coop's resume was HoF worthy, then why has it taken 30 years to put him in it?

It's a nonsense selection and has only happened because there are players who've got in since with less credentials than Coop so its a case of "shit, we have to put him in there now if xxx is in".

The same reason people are saying right here "if Coop is in, then xxx has a chance now too". It's the domino effect of the Hall of Very Good.

[L.Kizzle]

Cooper wouldnt have had half of those All-defensive awards had he not been on the Showtime Lakers. If Coop's resume was HoF worthy, then why has it taken 30 years to put him in it?

It's a nonsense selection and has only happened because there are players who've got in since with less credentials than Coop so its a case of "shit, we have to put him in there now if xxx is in".

The same reason people are saying right here "if Coop is in, then xxx has a chance now too". It's the domino effect of the Hall of Very Good.

Who's gotten in recently with less credentials than Coop?
I mentioned in the OP, everyone with more All-Defense team selections than Coop is in the Hall.

[John8204]

Who's gotten in recently with less credentials than Coop?
I mentioned in the OP, everyone with more All-Defense team selections than Coop is in the Hall.

In the last decade?

Radivoj Korać
Inman Jackson
Sonny Boswell
Toni Kukoč
Vlade Divac
Chuck Cooper
Dino Rađa
Zack Clayton
Nikos Galis
John Isaacs

[L.Kizzle]

In the last decade?

Radivoj Korać
Inman Jackson
Sonny Boswell
Toni Kukoč
Vlade Divac
Chuck Cooper
Dino Rađa
Zack Clayton
Nikos Galis
John Isaacs
I thought you were going to mention players with storied NBA career.
All of those guys got in for their international career besides the guys who played for the Globetrotters and the New York Rens.

[iamgine]

I mentioned all that in the OP. He wasn't a star.
He was a bench player, however he's an 8x All-Defense and won the award as a bench player. That has to count for something or maybe it doesn't.
What are you asking tho.

[L.Kizzle]

What are you asking tho.

I'm saying my thoughts have changed on him being a Hall of Famer. I'm not all the way sold, but I can see why he was inducted.

[iamgine]

I'm saying my thoughts have changed on him being a Hall of Famer. I'm not all the way sold, but I can see why he was inducted.

Before, you couldn't see why he was inducted?

[L.Kizzle]

Before, you couldn't see why he was inducted?
Like everyone else is doing now, I didn't look at the complete picture.

Everyone with more All-Defensive selections is in, that should help in some way.

[SouBeachTalents]

Like everyone else is doing now, I didn't look at the complete picture.

Everyone with more All-Defensive selections is in, that should help in some way.
That's a very weak rationale for someone making the HOF. The "worst" players that made more All-Defensive Teams than him were 5x all-stars like Bobby Jones & Dennis Johnson.

Bruce Bowen made 8 All-Defensive Teams, should he make the HOF too?

[L.Kizzle]

That's a very weak rationale for someone making the HOF. The "worst" players that made more All-Defensive Teams than him were 5x all-stars like Bobby Jones & Dennis Johnson.

Bruce Bowen made 8 All-Defensive Teams, should he make the HOF too?
Is he one of the greatest defenders ever?

[L.Kizzle]

That's a very weak rationale for someone making the HOF. The "worst" players that made more All-Defensive Teams than him were 5x all-stars like Bobby Jones & Dennis Johnson.

Bruce Bowen made 8 All-Defensive Teams, should he make the HOF too?
Is he one of the greatest defenders ever?

[Xiao Yao You]

That's a very weak rationale for someone making the HOF. The "worst" players that made more All-Defensive Teams than him were 5x all-stars like Bobby Jones & Dennis Johnson.

Bruce Bowen made 8 All-Defensive Teams, should he make the HOF too?

Bowen no way!:facepalm

[goozeman]

If anything he is still underrated even after getting in the Hall. He wasn't actually a "bench player." He was a rotation guy who usually guarded the other teams first option. That is, he played with the starters in various lineups. Bird is on record as to saying he's one of the best perimeter defenders ever, and the guy he feared the most. Imagine a 6'7" Kawhi level 3&D guy in the 80's as your stopper subbing in to guard your best player when the Lakers are running you to death up and down the court. This was done by design to wear down the other teams best player. Cooper made you work for everything. Cooper was obviously a starter level player and scarified a lot of offensive stats for the team, but he still had big 20+ scoring nights and playoff series where he would shoot 60 percent from 3p on high volume for that era. He was of the most underrated shooters from deep all-time, especially in the playoffs. Go look at some of his crazy playoff numbers like the 87 Finals against Boston in which he has a .696 TS% while going 14 of 23 from 3P. You just have to go back and watch the games to appreciate the fact that he was a defensive anchor on a team that won five championships and instant offensive igniter off the bench. In a lot of those games with Kareem, Magic, and Bird all on the same court, you would watch the game and at the end of the day your primary impression would be that Cooper was everywhere and dominated the game. Stats don't even begin to tell the whole story. The people who watched him play know how good he was and that's why he got put in the hall of fame.

[Nowoco]

The people who watched him play know how good he was and that's why he got put in the hall of fame.

So why did it take 30 years for those people to put him in?

[iamgine]

Like everyone else is doing now, I didn't look at the complete picture.

Everyone with more All-Defensive selections is in, that should help in some way.

That's the complete picture?

[Xiao Yao You]

If anything he is still underrated even after getting in the Hall. He wasn't actually a "bench player." He was a rotation guy who usually guarded the other teams first option. That is, he played with the starters in various lineups. Bird is on record as to saying he's one of the best perimeter defenders ever, and the guy he feared the most. Imagine a 6'7" Kawhi level 3&D guy in the 80's as your stopper subbing in to guard your best player when the Lakers are running you to death up and down the court. This was done by design to wear down the other teams best player. Cooper made you work for everything. Cooper was obviously a starter level player and scarified a lot of offensive stats for the team, but he still had big 20+ scoring nights and playoff series where he would shoot 60 percent from 3p on high volume for that era. He was of the most underrated shooters from deep all-time, especially in the playoffs. Go look at some of his crazy playoff numbers like the 87 Finals against Boston in which he has a .696 TS% while going 14 of 23 from 3P. You just have to go back and watch the games to appreciate the fact that he was a defensive anchor on a team that won five championships and instant offensive igniter off the bench. In a lot of those games with Kareem, Magic, and Bird all on the same court, you would watch the game and at the end of the day your primary impression would be that Cooper was everywhere and dominated the game. Stats don't even begin to tell the whole story. The people who watched him play know how good he was and that's why he got put in the hall of fame.

He wasnt a 3 and d. He was the back up pg as well

[L.Kizzle]

So why did it take 30 years for those people to put him in?

Took Artis Gilmore like 30 years to get in as well.

[Chick Stern]

Rodman was a multi time all-star & All-NBA, 2x DPOY, led the league in rebounding 7 years in a row*, he’s significantly more accomplished than Cooper.
* during the weakest NBA era

[John8204]

Chuck Cooper took like 70 years to get in(I'd argue he shouldn't be in if Mark Jackson, Robert Horry and AC Green aren't in).

But like I've said before I like putting bottom tier guys in...defining the floor of the Hall is more interesting than verifying the ceiling to me.

[L.Kizzle]

Chuck Cooper took like 70 years to get in(I'd argue he shouldn't be in if Mark Jackson, Robert Horry and AC Green aren't in).

But like I've said before I like putting bottom tier guys in...defining the floor of the Hall is more interesting than verifying the ceiling to me.
I'm sure Chuck Cooper is in as a contributor like Earl Lloyd and Nat Clifton.