Imagine Lebron averaging 10 more ppg then teammates and not getting FMVP

[3ba11]

The media would never do it and they simply punked Curry because he's a small guy that they don't fear, while Lebron is a big imposing figure that they fear.. This is how weak the media is.

They're nerds that got their lunch money took everyday in high school - then they went out and got journalism degrees so they could tell everyone what to think about sports... And you guys let them - most of the threads on this board are narratives that people heard on TV.. No one would think Lebron is #2 all-time unless the media told them so because Lebron won less than Duncan or Kobe and never had dynasty like Curry.. The media's BS was required to make people ignore the winning and still put Lebron ahead of those guys.

Ultimately, FMVP is a completely bullshit award and I will not be using it in arguments going forward.. Ditto All-NBA's.. All-star appearance is okay because it's voted on by fans and coaches...

Btw, EVERYONE locked down Lebron in those playoffs and he shot like crap in EVERY series because this was the only playoff run that he had high volume (due to no scoring help) - the Jordan-like burden/volume of 30 shots per game required more jumpers, hence the lower efficiency... Igoudala had nothing to do with Lebron shooting poorly.

[1987_Lakers]

Imagine OP being normal.

[3ba11]

Imagine OP being normal.


Imagine being such a weak person that "being normal" was critical.. wanting to be like everyone else.. you're a spineless jellyfish bro and I don't feel sorry for you.. imagine being an unintelligent and weak person that falls for media tropes, lol smh

[RRR3]

Imagine being such a weak person that "being normal" was critical.. wanting to be like everyone else.. you're a spineless jellyfish bro and I don't feel sorry for you.. imagine being an unintelligent and weak person that falls for media tropes, lol smh
Typing through the tears.

[3ba11]

Typing through the tears.


Ahh yes, the "normal person's" pathetic comforting tactic.

But there's no comfort for the reality I stated

[1987_Lakers]

Imagine being such a weak person that "being normal" was critical.. wanting to be like everyone else.. you're a spineless jellyfish bro and I don't feel sorry for you.. imagine being an unintelligent and weak person that falls for media tropes, lol smh

Seems like I struck a nerve.

[SouBeachTalents]

There’s being “normal”, then there’s posting about the same subject literally 50,000 times for over a decade. You keep trying to convince yourself you’re unique and special, and not just a mentally ill recluse who will still be doing this shit into the 2030’s :lol

[ShawkFactory]

Well…no it wouldn’t happen because Lebron does more things well than Curry. If he’s 10 ppg above his teammate he’s also quarterbacked both the offense and the defense, made a ton of momentum turning hustle plays, etc.

[RRR3]

There’s being “normal”, then there’s posting about the same subject literally 50,000 times for over a decade. You keep trying to convince yourself you’re unique and special, and not just a mentally ill recluse who will still be doing this shit into the 2030’s :lol
2030's? Depending on how old bro is, he could be doing this for a LONG time. He will legit be doing this in a nursing home if they let him.

[3ba11]

Well…no it wouldn’t happen because Lebron does more things well than Curry. If he’s 10 ppg above his teammate he’s also quarterbacked both the offense and the defense, made a ton of momentum turning hustle plays, etc.



APG

Westbrook........... 8.1
Rondo................. 7.9
D-Lo................... 5.8
Kyrie'.................. 5.7
Draymond........... 5.6
Wade.................. 5.4
MJ...................... 5.3
Pippen................ 5.2
Eric Snow............ 5.0
Mo Williams......... 4.9
Kobe................... 4.7
Chalmers............. 3.7
D Fish'................. 3.0


Draymond, Pippen, and Derek Fisher rank low among the playmaking help that Lebron had, so the entire narrative that Lebron does everything is complete BS.

In addition to Lebron's superior playmaking help, Love averaged 11.2 rebounds in 2017, so Lebron had TONS of rebounding help in his career - he was 3rd through 5th on his own team in rebounds from 2004-2010 (except 09') and then he got Bosh, Love, Haslem, Tristan, Mosgov, AD and tons of other great rebounders - far more than Curry ever had, or MJ and Kobe.

In addition to more scoring, rebounding and passing help, Lebron also had more rim protection with Zydrunas getting 2.5 blocks or AD, McGee, Mosgov, Shaq, Ben Wallace and others providing FAR more rim protection than MJ ever had.

So again, the entire notion that "lebron does everything" is false because he needs the most of everything - the most scoring, playmaking, rebounding help and rim protection compared to MJ, Curry or Kobe (with Pau).... Lebron also wasn't all-defense in his 30's, so he wasn't required to be a good defender for half his chips - AD led the defense, or even Tristan in Cleveland.

The high PNR skillset is the neediest skillset in history - people simply misperceive dribbling the ball as "quarterbacking" (like you just said) when that's a different sport altogether.. In basketball, carrying the ball around is the neediest way to play - it serves the individual statistically at the expense of the team's potential brand of ball and output.

[DJMcDonald]

Imagine being such a weak person that "being normal" was critical.. wanting to be like everyone else.. you're a spineless jellyfish bro and I don't feel sorry for you.. imagine being an unintelligent and weak person that falls for media tropes, lol smh

:roll:

[3ba11]

Imagine OP being normal.


translation: just be "normal" and go for the fraud like we do

lol no thanks.. being a dumbass isn't appealing

[Axe]

Ultimately, FMVP is a completely bullshit award
So this completely confirms that scottie pippen was the best player of the 90s then, not somebody else. Thanks a lot for sharing.

[Phoenix]

Quick check-in... yep OP getting rekted in his own thread again. Another day on ISH :sleeping

[3ba11]

So this completely confirms that scottie pippen was the best player of the 90s then, not somebody else. Thanks a lot for sharing.


Jordan averaged more assists than Pippen for their Finals career, playoff career and regular season career, while nearly doubling his scoring average - literally double.. And then he got equal or more DPOY votes for 7 of 9 seasons alongside Pippen.

So no.. There's never been a bigger statistical gap between 1st and 2nd option than Pippen...

And there's never been a low-producer and simple dunker like Pippen carried to so many titles... Pippen is the most overrated player ever, and Lebron is a distant 2nd.

[Axe]

Ultimately, FMVP is a completely bullshit award
Yeah right, still doesn't change the fact that you actually said this earlier.

[3ba11]

Yeah right, still doesn't change the fact that you actually said this earlier.


FMVP is a BS award but MJ doesn't need it to make the goat case.

Since the 3-point line was instituted, the GOAT has twice as many chips as the clear-cut best player as anyone else (it can easily be argued that Duncan and Lebron only have 3 chips as the clear-cut best player)...

In addition to winning twice as much as the best player, Jordan can crap on Russell's ring count by saying that he won the most rings in the more current/tougher era of the 80's and 90's.. i.e. who who cares about prior eras when he won the most in the tougher era... Lebron can't make this argument because he didn't win the most of players in the 00's or 10's - Curry won just as much and Duncan/Curry won more.

Jordan also had the only dynasty that wasn't a super-team (won the most with the least)... Then there's the stats/production rate, such as PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP, PPG, plus/minus, raptor, etc - Jordan leads all the stats.. Then there's the bird's eye view - Jordan was scoring champ and a top DPOY contender from 88-98' - that's goat longevity of goat caliber play.

[ShawkFactory]

APG

Westbrook........... 8.1
Rondo................. 7.9
D-Lo................... 5.8
Kyrie'.................. 5.7
Draymond........... 5.6
Wade.................. 5.4
MJ...................... 5.3
Pippen................ 5.2
Eric Snow............ 5.0
Mo Williams......... 4.9
Kobe................... 4.7
Chalmers............. 3.7
D Fish'................. 3.0


Draymond, Pippen, and Derek Fisher rank low among the playmaking help that Lebron had, so the entire narrative that Lebron does everything is complete BS.

In addition to Lebron's superior playmaking help, Love averaged 11.2 rebounds in 2017, so Lebron had TONS of rebounding help in his career - he was 3rd through 5th on his own team in rebounds from 2004-2010 (except 09') and then he got Bosh, Love, Haslem, Tristan, Mosgov, AD and tons of other great rebounders - far more than Curry ever had, or MJ and Kobe.

In addition to more scoring, rebounding and passing help, Lebron also had more rim protection with Zydrunas getting 2.5 blocks or AD, McGee, Mosgov, Shaq, Ben Wallace and others providing FAR more rim protection than MJ ever had.

So again, the entire notion that "lebron does everything" is false because he needs the most of everything - the most scoring, playmaking, rebounding help and rim protection compared to MJ, Curry or Kobe (with Pau).... Lebron also wasn't all-defense in his 30's, so he wasn't required to be a good defender for half his chips - AD led the defense, or even Tristan in Cleveland.

The high PNR skillset is the neediest skillset in history - people simply misperceive dribbling the ball as "quarterbacking" (like you just said) when that's a different sport altogether.. In basketball, carrying the ball around is the neediest way to play - it serves the individual statistically at the expense of the team's potential brand of ball and output.

Not gonna lie...I didn't read any of this. But I assume it's something you've said before that's been addressed and doesn't address my point at all.

[SouBeachTalents]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHn91yWXsAA0OjH?format=jpg&name=large

https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/442460442_425870883628560_7801421529049891098_n.jp g?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=iRC73z3Ajk4Q7kNvgFB0pud&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&_nc_gid=AG5mh2yYlhLpFxnS382t2rQ&oh=00_AYDZttNUlNZ1Bazyt_THyqplKopwbDHblXKqf6Dsj-2QKQ&oe=671B5274

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqlVpUyXYAE2puO.jpg

[3ba11]

https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/442460442_425870883628560_7801421529049891098_n.jp g?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=iRC73z3Ajk4Q7kNvgFB0pud&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&_nc_gid=AG5mh2yYlhLpFxnS382t2rQ&oh=00_AYDZttNUlNZ1Bazyt_THyqplKopwbDHblXKqf6Dsj-2QKQ&oe=671B5274





Pippen was never a "franchise player" that was required to build anything, and instead he was handed the keys to the most well-oiled machine ever in 94'.. It wasn't remotely surprising that once opponents woke up in the playoffs, Pippen was exposed and the "real" Bulls without MJ were borderline .500 in 95' before MJ returned.. It's intuitive that any team with Pippen as the best scorer will fall out of contention QUICKLY due to lack of talent, even a 3-peat dynasty as we saw in 95'.

Pippen averaged 19 on 42% for his Finals career and 17.6 on 41% for the 96-98' Playoffs, so imagine if AD achieved these numbers - there's no amount of defense that would save him from getting destroyed by media and removed from top 75, while getting traded in that offseason.. Pippen's true shooting was below league-average for every year of his playoff career except 89' or 01-03' (no burden in these years), and 91'.








https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/442460442_425870883628560_7801421529049891098_n.jp g?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=iRC73z3Ajk4Q7kNvgFB0pud&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&_nc_gid=AG5mh2yYlhLpFxnS382t2rQ&oh=00_AYDZttNUlNZ1Bazyt_THyqplKopwbDHblXKqf6Dsj-2QKQ&oe=671B5274





The Heat were injured in 2015 but nearly made the 16' ECF just like the 94' Bulls, while the 2011 Cavs lost their entire starting 5, not just Lebron - they lost Shaq, Varejao, Mo, Zydrunas and Delonte, which was 52 ppg.. Meanwhile, Love was injured in 2019.

So you're FOS - this stuff has been debunked many times - team-hoppers like Lebron GUT teams - a GM's nightmare.







https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHn91yWXsAA0OjH?format=jpg&name=large





MJ would've won and had the same numbers with any all-star teammate, so you're punishing him for being the only player in NBA history that was good enough to be unbeatable with the first all-star he received and never need another one...

Meanwhile, everyone else in history needed tons of all-star teammates and you're REWARDING them for needing more help and knocking MJ for turning it all around with just 1 all-star.. And jordan had to BUILD that all-star too, while everyone else was gifted all-star teammates.







https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqlVpUyXYAE2puO.jpg





History shows that Pippen only outscored opposing guards that were underperforming against MJ, while getting outscored by opposing SF's in the majority of series in his career.

Pippen outscored underperforming guards like Magic, Porter, KJ, Hornacek and Payton, but got outscored by his own SF matchups like Nance, Dantley, Aguirre, Johnny Newman, X-Man, Dominique, Larry Johnson, Schrempf, Juwan Howard, Glen Rice twice, and more..

Pippen was actually outscored by ALL forwards including PF's like Malone, Barkley, Kemp, Webber, etc- literally everyone - he was destroyed by opposing forwards for his entire career and only outscored opposing guards that were underperforming against MJ in one-off fashion (otherwise killing it in the playoffs except vs MJ).. This is the historical record.

[RRR3]

3ball legit cries when LeBron wins. Actual tears.

[RRR3]

You said that Lebron "does everything" except he needed the most playmaking help, rebounding help, scoring help and rim protection than Jordan, Curry and Kobe (with Pau).

We know this is true because all of Lebron had playmaking teammates like Westbrook, Rondo, D-Lo, Kyrie, and Wade that averaged more assists than Draymond, Pippen and Derek Fisher, while other guys like Mo, Snow and Chalmers averaged more than Fisher and basically the same as Draymond or Pippen.. Lebron's rosters also had more scoring help, rim protection and rebounding help.. This is the historical record.
How long did you cry for when LeBron won in 2020? We talking hours? Days?

[3ba11]

Pippen was never a "franchise player" that was required to build anything, and instead he was handed the keys to the most well-oiled machine ever in 94'.. It wasn't remotely surprising that once opponents woke up in the playoffs, Pippen was exposed and the "real" Bulls without MJ were borderline .500 in 95' before MJ returned.. It's intuitive that any team with Pippen as the best scorer will fall out of contention QUICKLY due to lack of talent, even a 3-peat dynasty as we saw in 95'.

Pippen averaged 19 on 42% for his Finals career and 17.6 on 41% for the 96-98' Playoffs, so imagine if AD achieved these numbers - there's no amount of defense that would save him from getting destroyed by media and removed from top 75, while getting traded in that offseason.. Pippen's true shooting was below league-average for every year of his playoff career except 89' or 01-03' (no burden in these years), and 91'.








The Heat were injured in 2015 but nearly made the 16' ECF just like the 94' Bulls, while the 2011 Cavs lost their entire starting 5, not just Lebron - they lost Shaq, Varejao, Mo, Zydrunas and Delonte, which was 52 ppg.. Meanwhile, Love was injured in 2019.

So you're FOS - this stuff has been debunked many times - team-hoppers like Lebron GUT teams - a GM's nightmare.







MJ would've won and had the same numbers with any all-star teammate, so you're punishing him for being the only player in NBA history that was good enough to be unbeatable with the first all-star he received and never need another one...

Meanwhile, everyone else in history needed tons of all-star teammates and you're REWARDING them for needing more help and knocking MJ for turning it all around with just 1 all-star.. And jordan had to BUILD that all-star too, while everyone else was gifted all-star teammates.







History shows that Pippen only outscored opposing guards that were underperforming against MJ, while getting outscored by opposing SF's in the majority of series in his career.

Pippen outscored underperforming guards like Magic, Porter, KJ, Hornacek and Payton, but got outscored by his own SF matchups like Nance, Dantley, Aguirre, Johnny Newman, X-Man, Dominique, Larry Johnson, Schrempf, Juwan Howard, Glen Rice twice, and more..

Pippen was actually outscored by ALL forwards including PF's like Malone, Barkley, Kemp, Webber, etc- literally everyone - he was destroyed by opposing forwards for his entire career and only outscored opposing guards that were underperforming against MJ in one-off fashion (otherwise killing it in the playoffs except vs MJ).. This is the historical record


.


Response to SouBeach's BS:


https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.com%2F7lwm ZMucgFQAAAAM%2Frelaxing-power-rangers.gif

[3ba11]

Not gonna lie...I didn't read any of this. But I assume it's something you've said before that's been addressed and doesn't address my point at all.


You said that Lebron "does everything" except he needed the most playmaking help, rebounding help, scoring help and rim protection compared to Jordan, Curry and Kobe (with Pau).

We know this is true because Lebron had many playmaking teammates that averaged more assists than MJ, Curry or Kobe's playmaking teammates (shown above).

In addition to having more passing help, Lebron's rosters also had more rim protection, rebounding help, and FAR more scoring help - Lebron never carried the most important category of scoring like Curry, MJ or Kobe... So "bron-ball" is the neediest skillset that needs teammates to do everything..

[3ba11]

How long did you cry for when LeBron won in 2020? We talking hours? Days?


I laughed that Lebron could only win a 2nd option chip and was lottery in the West until AD made him champion

The best basketball we've ever seen is winning while a teammate is the playoff scoring champ - says the media.. Again, I laughed

[RRR3]

I cried for days, tears were splattering down my fat face as I ate tubs of ice cream to cope
:roll:

[sdot_thadon]

There’s being “normal”, then there’s posting about the same subject literally 50,000 times for over a decade. You keep trying to convince yourself you’re unique and special, and not just a mentally ill recluse who will still be doing this shit into the 2030’s :lol

50,000 is a pretty conservative number, I'd wager he's cleared half a million posts in that time lol.

[ShawkFactory]

You said that Lebron "does everything" except he needed the most playmaking help, rebounding help, scoring help and rim protection compared to Jordan, Curry and Kobe (with Pau).

We know this is true because Lebron had many playmaking teammates that averaged more assists than MJ, Curry or Kobe's playmaking teammates (shown above).

In addition to having more passing help, Lebron's rosters also had more rim protection, rebounding help, and FAR more scoring help - Lebron never carried the most important category of scoring like Curry, MJ or Kobe... So "bron-ball" is the neediest skillset that needs teammates to do everything..

COrrect. And if you watch, which I assume you have, you can see that he does.

Case in point, the Olympics this year. No..he's not bombing 3s like Curry was but he was the absolute leader of the team, setting dudes up, getting every loose ball, and guarding Jokic on defense. He does/did pretty much everything that a player can do.

For the record, I know this is falling on deaf ears and you're going to come back with something stupid. I'm saying it for myself and others reading who agree. Not you.

[Axe]

:cry:
https://c.tenor.com/6MEgO1p0EQMAAAAC/tenor.gif

[3ba11]

COrrect. And if you watch, which I assume you have, you can see that he does.

Case in point, the Olympics this year. No..he's not bombing 3s like Curry was but he was the absolute leader of the team, setting dudes up, getting every loose ball, and guarding Jokic on defense. He does/did pretty much everything that a player can do.

For the record, I know this is falling on deaf ears and you're going to come back with something stupid. I'm saying it for myself and others reading who agree. Not you.


The bron-ball skillset is the reason the US barely won instead of blowouts to match our talent advantage

Specifically, "bron-ball" had 5 turnovers in 24 minutes per game, which is 6-7 turnovers in NBA minutes - it's nearly impossible for a team to overcome this but Curry allowed the impossible to happen..

You just don't understand basketball because star players don't need anyone to set them up.... And being turned into spot-up shooters reduces them and the teams capacity for production.... The team maximizes production if Lebron can play off of star teammates but instead he could only dominate the ball and kill the offensive potential...

The US had the talent to have a much more potent offense than any Warriors or Spurs team but instead they couldn't go off on anyone because Bron-ball kills ball movement and chemistry.. The team would've won much easier without Bron-ball slowing them down..

If Lebron does so much, why does he need the most help, such as the most scoring, rebounding, passing help and rim protection??.. It's because the PNR skillset is the most needy skillset - it needs a bunch of hoppy alley-oop guys to rebound, defend and block shots, while also needing the most spacing and closers and many playmakers.. So teammates are doing everything.

[1987_Lakers]

The bron-ball skillset is the reason the US barely won instead of blowouts to match our talent advantage

Specifically, "bron-ball" had 5 turnovers in 24 minutes per game, which is 6-7 turnovers in NBA minutes - it's nearly impossible for a team to overcome this but Curry allowed the impossible to happen..

You just don't understand basketball because star players don't need anyone to set them up.... And being turned into spot-up shooters reduces them and the teams capacity for production.... The team maximizes production if Lebron can play off of star teammates but instead he could only dominate the ball and kill the offensive potential...

The US had the talent to have a much more potent offense than any Warriors or Spurs team but instead they couldn't go off on anyone because Bron-ball kills ball movement and chemistry.. The team would've won much easier without Bron-ball slowing them down..

If Lebron does so much, why does he need the most help, such as the most scoring, rebounding, passing help and rim protection??.. It's because the PNR skillset is the most needy skillset - it needs a bunch of hoppy alley-oop guys to rebound, defend and block shots, while also needing the most spacing and closers and many playmakers.. So teammates are doing everything.

The '92 Dream Team would have been more dominant if it wasn't for MJ's chucking.

[3ba11]

The '92 Dream Team would have been more dominant if it wasn't for MJ's chucking.


The ball-dominant skillset needs "closers", while MJ, Curry and Kobe WERE their team's closers

Ball-dominators also need the most spacing

Ball-dominators also need hoppy alley-oop guys that block shots, defend and rebound.

Ball-dominators need bevies of elite playmakers like Brunson, Kyrie, Wade, D-Lo and Rondo

Otoh, jumpshooters like Curry, MJ or Kobe don't need closers or nearly as much spacing, rim protection, playmakers or rebounding help.

The US had the talent to have a much more potent offense than any Warriors or Spurs team but instead they couldn't go off on anyone because Bron-ball kills ball movement, chemistry, and turnover machine.. The team would've won much easier without Bron-ball slowing them down..

[1987_Lakers]

MJ had the lowest FG% along with Laettner among teammates in the '92 Olympics despite playing dogshit competition.

LeBron at 39 was named Olympic MVP

[3ba11]

MJ had the lowest FG% along with Laettner among teammates in the '92 Olympics despite playing dogshit competition.

LeBron at 39 was named Olympic MVP


Everyone knows that the media robbed Curry again - no one thought Lebron was really the MVP except gay Lebron fans

And MJ shot well and only 1 turnover per game and 4.0 steals, while allowing the ball to move so the margin of victory matched the talent advantage

[1987_Lakers]

And MJ shot well

He shot 1-11 vs Puerto Rico.

[Axe]

Kyle rittenhouse.

[DJMcDonald]

Kyle rittenhouse.

:lol

[BarberSchool]

Typing through the tears.
N!gga your posts read like a perfect tutorial on how to read PROJECTION by a deeply depressed passive-aggressive terminally online loser.

A loser who display all the same terrible attributes as the media figures this thread is rightfully dissing. But who is so neurotic and dysgenic that he couldn’t even dream of aspiring to become the media we are lambasting.

You are never in the superlative position in your attempts to treat n!ggas on this board. You get no respect. No dap. Do not pass go. Do not collect any Monopoly money. Look in mirror, try to develop self-awareness, and try to do better. You have the cognitive ability to be better, now improve the other grossly underpowered factors around that cognition.

[BarberSchool]

Kyle rittenhouse.

Dog can you imagine Ritrenhouse lil pudgy face in a rock-n-jock bball game event ? GUNSLINGIN 3’s for nothing but bricks? Comedic gold.

[StrongLurk]

Pippen went 6/6 in the finals.

[3ba11]

N!gga your posts read like a perfect tutorial on how to read PROJECTION by a deeply depressed passive-aggressive terminally online loser.

A loser who display all the same terrible attributes as the media figures this thread is rightfully dissing. But who is so neurotic and dysgenic that he couldn’t even dream of aspiring to become the media we are lambasting.

You are never in the superlative position in your attempts to treat n!ggas on this board. You get no respect. No dap. Do not pass go. Do not collect any Monopoly money. Look in mirror, try to develop self-awareness, and try to do better. You have the cognitive ability to be better, now improve the other grossly underpowered factors around that cognition.


https://media.tenor.com/B3TBCaUBnmwAAAAM/contemplating-video-taping.gif

[Axe]

Dog can you imagine Ritrenhouse lil pudgy face in a rock-n-jock bball game event ? GUNSLINGIN 3’s for nothing but bricks? Comedic gold.
:roll: