I can’t believe I’m saying this, but it’s entirely possible I watch the World Series

[Kblaze8855]

And when I say “Watch” I mean, it might be on my TV in the background while I’m stirring roux to make gumbo and when I say “World series” I mean game 1 or a game 7 if they don’t conflict with a good nba or nfl game.

But that is a considerable departure from the norm when I’m not entirely sure I have ever seen a baseball game start to finish outside the two attended when Jordan was in the minor leagues. And Jordan wasn’t even in both of them for the record. It was a doubleheader with a charity game of E list celebrities that was played before the Jordan game.

I didn’t even watch the few baseball games I actually played as a kid even though I was told I was a natural defensively.

The closest I’ve come to a full baseball game was during the home run chase in the 90s and maybe an all star game or two from the pre cable and pre tv in every room days when whatever was on in the house is just what you watched. I think I saw the end of the Redsox comeback against the Yankees in 04 or whenever as well. And pieces here and there.

But a whole game?

And yes, it is entirely due to the star power and the teams involved.

Who is that matchup in the NBA right now?

Is Lakers Celtics with LeBron taking on Boston the peak potential matchup from a fan interest perspective?

We got warriors Boston recently and that didn’t have the hype it could have.

Would Knicks Lakers be the peak?

Would that bring the non fans in?

What is your ideal NBA finals purely from a spectacle/the world is watching point of view?

Would Knicks/Lakers take over the country for a game 7 in MSG?

[Xiao Yao You]

**** LA!

[Wally450]

Its going to be a great series. I've rooted against LA all season, but can't watch the Yankees win another WS, so I'll be rooting for the Dodgers.

[ShawkFactory]

Obviously Lebron being in the finals against Boston would be on that level, but since I don't expect that then I don't think there's really a similar type of matchup in the NBA this year.

The star power that both of these teams have, its kind of like if the Warriors/Cavs in 2017 or something. And Boston/LA in the 80s

[Hey Yo]

ZERO interest... won't watch one second unless highlights come on the channel I'm watching.

Yankees payroll 303mil

Aaron Judge: $40 million
Gerrit Cole: $36 million
Giancarlo Stanton: $32 million
Juan Soto: $31 million

Those 4 dudes combined (139mil) make more than 13 other teams entire payrolls.

Dodgers 250mil... 3rd highest in the league.

[ShawkFactory]

ZERO interest... won't watch one second unless highlights come on the channel I'm watching.

Yankees payroll 303mil

Aaron Judge: $40 million
Gerrit Cole: $36 million
Giancarlo Stanton: $32 million
Juan Soto: $31 million

Those 4 dudes combined (139mil) make more than 13 other teams entire payrolls.

Dodgers 250mil... 3rd highest in the league.

The payroll discrepancies really haven't mattered much in the playoffs over the last several years. Of course it'll lead to more wins in the regular season and playoff appearances. But despite having 2 of the top 3 payrolls for decades now, these two teams haven't met in the World Series since 1981.

A lot of things have to go right at the right time regardless of how talented on paper a team is. It makes for great intrigue.

[tontoz]

Playoff baseball can be pretty intense. I used to follow it somewhat when i lived in Atlanta. It was basically mandatory for residents to follow the Braves back then when they had Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz.

The urgency in the postseason makes it far more interesting than the just another game regular season.

[Carbine]

You're about to see the most overrated baseball player of all time. His name is Ohtani.

[Hey Yo]

The payroll discrepancies really haven't mattered much in the playoffs over the last several years. Of course it'll lead to more wins in the regular season and playoff appearances. But despite having 2 of the top 3 payrolls for decades now, these two teams haven't met in the World Series since 1981.

A lot of things have to go right at the right time
regardless of how talented on paper a team is. It makes for great intrigue.
That's the thing... pretty much a guaranteed playoff spot, leads to a chance of winning a championship. It just sucks for fans of teams who know they have no chance whatsoever even before the first pitch of the season.

[Kblaze8855]

ZERO interest... won't watch one second unless highlights come on the channel I'm watching.

Yankees payroll 303mil

Aaron Judge: $40 million
Gerrit Cole: $36 million
Giancarlo Stanton: $32 million
Juan Soto: $31 million

Those 4 dudes combined (139mil) make more than 13 other teams entire payrolls.

Dodgers 250mil... 3rd highest in the league.

So two teams full of great players going against each other is….what? Less interesting than bad teams playing?

[Kblaze8855]

That's the thing... pretty much a guaranteed playoff spot, leads to a chance of winning a championship. It just sucks for fans of teams who know they have no chance whatsoever even before the first pitch of the season.

You think Hornet fans have felt they might win it all this year in the last 30 years?

[Hey Yo]

Just not my cup of tea when it comes to MLB

[Kblaze8855]

You're about to see the most overrated baseball player of all time. His name is Ohtani.

Is there something else he should be doing? Until now he’s pitched and hit. What else do yoy want?

Defense?

[Hey Yo]

You think Hornet fans have felt they might win it all this year in the last 30 years?

No.... not at all and I feel bad for their fans + all other fans who have to pick up an alternative team in order to get excited about the sport.

[Kblaze8855]

Just not my cup of tea when it comes to MLB

So your cup of tea is….worse teams playing worse because their owners don’t spend so much?

Whats the ideal?

Two shit teams scrape by?

[Hey Yo]

So your cup of tea is….worse teams playing worse because their owners don’t spend so much?

Whats the ideal?

Two shit teams scrape by?

When you have no rooting interest/don't give a shit about either team (when it comes to MLB) it's hard fir me too watch. I'd rather watch 2 wild card teams play than NY or LA. If the Mets or Cleveland would have moved on to face one or the other, then I'd have a rooting interest.

[Kblaze8855]

When you have no rooting interest/don't give a shit about either team (when it comes to MLB) it's hard fir me too watch. I'd rather watch 2 wild card teams play than NY or LA. If the Mets or Cleveland would have moved on to face one or the other, then I'd have a rooting interest.

So two worse teams you aren’t a fan of would make for a better series?

Seriously I’m asking.

It’s just hard to understand. You think games would be better if the players were worse? Or do you not care how good the games could be because there is too much talent on both ends?

It’s like not wanting to see the showtime lakers and Celtics play each other because the Sterling clippers don’t spend enough to make it.

[Charlie Sheen]

So your cup of tea is….worse teams playing worse because their owners don’t spend so much?

Whats the ideal?

Two shit teams scrape by?

League has too many Donald Sterlings trying to maximize yearly profit. Those owners have to go.

I do not just mean small markets either... Red Sox had a team that should have been in contention for at least the next 5 years and threw it all away because they did not want to pay Mookie.

[highwhey]

shit, i wanted to attend one game in LA but work has me tied down. the world series is actually very entertaining, some of the playoff games from last round were pretty fun to watch as well.

[Patrick Chewing]

shit, i wanted to attend one game in LA but work has me tied down. the world series is actually very entertaining, some of the playoff games from last round were pretty fun to watch as well.

It's the fact that you're 400 pounds and not work that's tying you down huh huh huh

[tpols]

Baseball is better to watch in person than basketball imo. The atmosphere and field setup makes long distance viewing much more satisfying. You're never stuck watching action on the opposite end of the court.

[Hey Yo]

So two worse teams you aren’t a fan of would make for a better series?

Seriously I’m asking.

It’s just hard to understand. You think games would be better if the players were worse? Or do you not care how good the games could be because there is too much talent on both ends?

It’s like not wanting to see the showtime lakers and Celtics play each other because the Sterling clippers don’t spend enough to make it.
It would make the series somewhat more watchable for me but even better if one team was one I could root for. When 2 teams play and you don't want to see either win the championship, sorry I'll pass.

If I was a gambler, then that would be a different story.

[Kblaze8855]

I have enjoyed watching way too many great teams play other great teams to decide baseball is where I want to see worse teams play. If the Lakers and Celtics play one team had magic on the biggest contract in sports history at the time along with Kareem, who repeatedly set new records for highest pay, and they were paying Larry Bird, who would depending on the year be making more money than either of them. And then they will both have 3 All-Stars on top of it.

And no point was I wishing Otis birdsong and the Kansas City Kings had knocked the Lakers out so I could watch a shitty series of them against Bernard kings brother on the nets after they sneak by Boston.

And in truth, all sports history would be a lot worse and less memorable if that happened more often.

It’s fine to like what you like, but I suspect if you could peer into alternate universes, eliminating the juggernaut teams would generally result in a worse product, even for the people who hate to see them win.

The upstart rockets making the finals in 86 to deny us the Lakers Celtics final with Bird at his absolute best or the Magic making it in 09? It’s fine.

They earned it.

But we would hear daily references to a LeBron/Kobe finals to this day.

Star power might be a guilty pleasure for some, but in the end, we usually look back on star power matchups as era defining and glorious.

[ShawkFactory]

You're about to see the most overrated baseball player of all time. His name is Ohtani.

I think anyone who's paid attention to the baseball thread and my Ohtani thoughts knew this one was coming..but what??

Overrated in the sense that people call him the GOAT when in reality he's simply just ONE of the best and most unique players ever? If those are the margins for you then sure, he's overrated. If any part if you is saying that he isn't an unreal baseball player then you've completely lost me.

[HylianNightmare]

Complete opposite of last season

[eliteballer]

I'm right there with you on my thoughts and exposure to baseball (boring) but the pitch clock has sped up the game a bit, and the playoffs can actually be (somewhat watchable).

Plus, it doesn't get bigger than NY vs. LA with two super teams.

[Meticode]

So two teams full of great players going against each other is….what? Less interesting than bad teams playing?

When them meeting is largely dependent upon their payrolls with no caps? Yes. Less interesting. It just says they're in that position because they're paid for. What's way more interesting is a high payroll team meets a mid or lower payroll team in the playoffs. At least to me. I probably won't watch it all. I'm sure it'll have good ratings. Two huge markets and a lot of fans either don't care about payroll at all, or very little and they just keep watching.

[999Guy]

It just isn’t a good sport.

[Wally450]

Baseball is better to watch in person than basketball imo. The atmosphere and field setup makes long distance viewing much more satisfying. You're never stuck watching action on the opposite end of the court.

I disagree with this. I've said to friends countless times that there isn't a bad seat at the Garden. I've sat everywhere from last row balcony to courtside and most places in between, and its a great viewing experience. On the other hand, sitting out in the outfield at Fenway Park watching a game is torturous. You're over 400-500 feet away from the mound/homeplate, where in an arena, even if you're up in the balcony, you're less than half the distance away, even if the play is down the other end of the court.

Could just be a preference thing, but if I'm going to a baseball game, I'm making sure I'm sitting down the 1st or 3rd base line.

[Kblaze8855]

When them meeting is largely dependent upon their payrolls with no caps? Yes. Less interesting. It just says they're in that position because they're paid for. What's way more interesting is a high payroll team meets a mid or lower payroll team in the playoffs. At least to me.



If you wanna watch worse players play that’s your decision of course. I just don’t know how it’s more interesting. Pretty much all of the most legendary and notorious teams in history have had incredibly expensive players because greatness cost money unless you manage to **** one of them over on the contract.

You less interested when your team won the 2016 finals with the highest payroll(108 million to some teams paying 61)? Or does the existence of a cap teams make a mockery of mean the basketball is still interesting?

The Celtics cost 500 million dollars a season now with luxury taxes. Orlando will make the playoffs costing 150. There was only one team in baseball with as great a discrepancy(by percentage) in Real life cost between them and the Yankees as the magic and the Celtics. And that’s Oakland, who is destroying its team on purpose to move.

That mean a lakers or suns vs Boston finals can’t be interesting?

Too many legends and big names for the basketball to be respectable because their ownership groups will spend obscene money to keep a lot of talent together?

Larry Bird made over $7 million one season while the San Antonio Spurs made 11.5. The Celtics payroll that season was 25 million when the cap was only 14 Because they were allowed to keep all their own legends and stars when the cap was implemented.

Being able to exceed the salary cap to sign your own players(the well named Larry Bird rule) makes the NBA “cap” not even really exist.

The Warriors paid $300 million for a team that got to play $117 million team in the playoffs.

The rating suggested that people were interested in that run. I suspect you watched it too.

What’s the difference? The NBA, pretending there was a real life cap?

If baseball just says there is a cap but allows you to trade for somebody then pay them whatever the **** you want like the NBA does that make the World Series better when the same players would be in it?

[tomtucker]

ZERO interest... won't watch one second unless highlights come on the channel I'm watching.

Yankees payroll 303mil

Aaron Judge: $40 million
Gerrit Cole: $36 million
Giancarlo Stanton: $32 million
Juan Soto: $31 million

Those 4 dudes combined (139mil) make more than 13 other teams entire payrolls.

Dodgers 250mil... 3rd highest in the league.

Dodgers just gave 700 million dollars to a guy that does not speak English after 8 years in the US.


**** the Dodger$

[highwhey]

Dodgers just gave 700 million dollars to a guy that does not speak English after 8 years in the US.


**** the Dodger$

racist meltdown

[SouBeachTalents]

Well, y'all missed a hell of an opener, and what I expect will be a great series.

[Meticode]

If you wanna watch worse players play that’s your decision of course.

In baseball it's not about players as much as it is in the NBA. It's about the team as a whole. It's no different to me than when the NBA was having super teams make it deep in the playoffs or win the championships (ie: Warriors, Heat). The only time it was interesting is when they'd fail. The NBA didn't get interesting to me again until the last few years when there wasn't a clear super team because teams were finding loop wholes on how to get three to four hall of famers in their primes together. There's no entertainment value for me personally because there's nothing vested when it ends up that way.

[ShawkFactory]

Dodgers just gave 700 million dollars to a guy that does not speak English after 8 years in the US.


**** the Dodger$

:lol

[HylianNightmare]

Well, y'all missed a hell of an opener, and what I expect will be a great series.

Seriously. What kids dream of

[Kblaze8855]

In baseball it's not about players as much as it is in the NBA. It's about the team as a whole. It's no different to me than when the NBA was having super teams make it deep in the playoffs or win the championships (ie: Warriors, Heat). The only time it was interesting is when they'd fail. The NBA didn't get interesting to me again until the last few years when there wasn't a clear super team because teams were finding loop wholes on how to get three to four hall of famers in their primes together. There's no entertainment value for me personally because there's nothing vested when it ends up that way.


So as a Cavs fan 2016 with the second highest payroll in history and 3 superstars….not interested in that finals?

You think the NBA would’ve Been better off to break up the showtime Lakers and Celtics so instead of the Golden era four or five stars on each team in the finals we could be looking back fondly on some Bucks/Nuggets finals?

The entire history of most sports is written by teams that are loaded with talent while cheap teams and worse run ones can’t compete. Sure, Russell Celtics usually have the best team. They have the highest paid player who actually had a contract that he would get one dollar more than anybody else signed. They had like six highly paid Hall of Famer after that. But that depends on other teams being stupid and cheap to allow it.

They only had Russell because the Hawks were stupid enough to not see the value of defense so they traded a score for him. And this was right after the Hawks were stupid enough to not pay Cousy his requested $10,000 a year so he went to be an insurance salesman before the Celtics stepped up and took him off their hands for less than his ask but more than the Hawks would pay.

They built the dynasty on being smarter and more willing to spend money. Oh, and as it happens, Red was the coach of the Hawks before they cheaped out and traded some of his favorite players and he quit to go run the Celtics.

It isn’t the Celtics fault the Hawks were dumb and cheap and it isn’t the Yankees fault small market billionaires didn’t invest in their teams over the years to build the infrastructure to have revenue to justify spending.

The Dodgers like the lakers play in the same place as a shitty little brother team who apparently aren’t helped by the market size.

They have been incredibly high, paid terrible teams all through sports forever. People are just harsher in no salary cap leagues. But the NBA even with its salary cap has basically the same thing. They have been times a team had $126 million salary in a league with a $49 million salary cap. And they didn’t even make the playoffs. The cap is basically the same thing is not having one. When you can just trade for whoever you want and sign them after that if you’re willing to pay the money, it doesn’t matter what the cap is.

As long as you can develop trade for and keep your own stars, you might as well be in a league. The NFL has a real cap, but even they let you **** with it a little with the signing bonuses.

The NFL does try though. But they built the gigantic local fan bases in eras where they could do whatever they want and keep every good player where they were for life while adding more.

after they switched from a niche thing supported by college football fans who wanted to keep watching their favorite players after they graduated into being a full-fledged sport of their own? They basically stayed no cap until the dynasties and super teams of the Golden era established them as a juggernaut. Teams and places like Green Bay and Pittsburgh became Household names with giant coast to coast fan basis, almost entirely due to the fact they were able to keep all their players 60 and 50 years ago and win all the time.

The popularity and legendary squads of pretty much all major American sports were based on teams being able to load up and go against other teams that are loaded up.

And most of the great ones only got where they were by being smarter than the stupid ones that let them do it.

multiple teams failed and folded. I had to move out of some of the markets we think are the reason teams like the Yankees and Dodgers have the money they have now.

It generally comes down to a willingness to spend and being competent. Over generations, you become something the poor and incompetent don’t.

Then you have teams like the clippers with fans mad at the Lakers when they play right up the street for decades. Fans of teams like the Nets, who became little brothers of the Knicks because their owners literally sold Dr. J to the 76ers To help cover cost of entering the NBA from the ABA.

The Braves cost more than the Yankees in the 70s when they were bought. This shit takes decades and signing the right deals and the right players to build the pipelines for all this revenue.

The Dodgers signed a guy they get to pay for 30 years.

At some point, the basic issue is long-term financial mismanagement and being generally stupid. It takes a minute. After that you’re established and might have a pipeline to justify the spending but at the start? You kinda have to do it yourself. Gotta go in your pocket and risk the money.

The teams that did it decades ago and ran themselves well got the wild local tv deals and merch sales that often even other giant market teams(sometimes the same market) didn’t.

Teams wanna nibble on the edges for 50 years and hate the teams that went all in again and again to become brand names.

Now teams that were worth twice what the Yankees were back in the day and are in baseball, crazy giant metropolis are sitting there with awful lineups, wondering where they’re going to get the money to turn it around while fans bitch about payrolls.

It takes decades or a “Yolo” owner to get you there and stay there.

And it almost always results in teams that define an era.

Some teams just are cheap and long term incompetent.

I don’t even personally advocate for some of these billionaires to just risk it all and spend 200+ million to see if they can be great. I wouldn’t. But you look back on the history it pretty much always takes somebody just being smarter than everyone else or being willing to spend like a madman for a while to build teams to the point they can sustain themselves.

If you aren’t willing to take the risk that’s on you.

[Kblaze8855]

Well, y'all missed a hell of an opener, and what I expect will be a great series.

I watched it from something like the fifth inning(when I remembered it) to the end. I just put the suns and Lakers on in the sunroom by the living room and kind of paced around. I had some people over none of which are baseball fans and we actually enjoyed it.

Obvious classic ending. I’m sure some fans would have preferred some scrub go up there and get struck out after his teams only star got walked. That would make for better tv.

Not having a whole teams of stars to make you pay for loading the bases.

Walk off grand slams by 8 time all stars in the World Series just ruins the game for the type who wants Homer Simpson up there for the purity of losing with scum and boring everyone to death in the process.

[Kblaze8855]

oh, and I literally learned that Mookie Betts wasn’t white and that Freddie Freeman was during the game. I think my mental image of Mookie may have been Johnny Damon for some reason and I thought Freeman was the light skinned black(Latino?) guy on the Braves.

*looks into it*


Ok no. I thought Freeman was Jason Hayward. I knew it was someone who used to be on the Braves and that was my mental image till he stepped up there.

Pretty much everyone in baseball is faceless to me.

[ShawkFactory]

Freeman and Heyward were both top prospects who came up around the same time so that checks out.

[Neal Romer]

oh, and I literally learned that Mookie Betts wasn’t white and that Freddie Freeman was during the game. I think my mental image of Mookie may have been Johnny Damon for some reason and I thought Freeman was the light skinned black(Latino?) guy on the Braves.

*looks into it*


Ok no. I thought Freeman was Jason Hayward. I knew it was someone who used to be on the Braves and that was my mental image till he stepped up there.

Pretty much everyone in baseball is faceless to me.

I used to have this issue when thinking about the Bad Boy Pistons who were before my time. I knew Thomas and Dumars and Rodman were black, and Lambieer was white. Whenever I heard the names John Sally, Rick Mahorn, Mark Aguirre... I didnt have a facial association in my head for them and kinda just figured those guys were white based on their names.

[Neal Romer]

Also Larry Nance.


When I was younger I figured he was like, Jim Nantz's cousin.

[Hey Yo]

I watched it from something like the fifth inning(when I remembered it) to the end. I just put the suns and Lakers on in the sunroom by the living room and kind of paced around. I had some people over none of which are baseball fans and we actually enjoyed it.

Obvious classic ending. I’m sure some fans would have preferred some scrub go up there and get struck out after his teams only star got walked. That would make for better tv.

Not having a whole teams of stars to make you pay for loading the bases.

Walk off grand slams by 8 time all stars in the World Series just ruins the game for the type who wants Homer Simpson up there for the purity of losing with scum and boring everyone to death in the process.

Never woulda thunk just a simple post from me (who you've never really interacted with in 10yrs) would trigger you into an extended frenzy.

Funny how you interest went from "it'll be background noise as I stir my gumbo.... to, not so subtle... "I had a small watch party for the the world series game... wish it was two shit teams playing"

[Chick Stern]

I generally don’t care for baseball, with a couple of exceptions. Going to the occasional game is OK for something different to do.

-playoffs, primarily if it’s a local team. Didn’t watch any WS last year, I’m watching it this year.
-Dodgers/Giants games I will watch, because they hate each other. I channel surfed into a game years ago and it was a big shit show and very entertaining.

[Kblaze8855]

Never woulda thunk just a simple post from me (who you've never really interacted with in 10yrs) would trigger you into an extended frenzy.

Funny how you interest went from "it'll be background noise as I stir my gumbo.... to, not so subtle... "I had a small watch party for the the world series game... wish it was two shit teams playing"


Wasn’t a watch party. I forgot it was on till the 5th inning. And If you think I need to be upset for an extended response you can’t have paid much attention in that ten years.

Two teams being too good to want to see them play each other is just an exceptionally weird thing to be against but a small number of people seem to feel that way.

[tpols]

Never woulda thunk just a simple post from me (who you've never really interacted with in 10yrs) would trigger you into an extended frenzy.

Funny how you interest went from "it'll be background noise as I stir my gumbo.... to, not so subtle... "I had a small watch party for the the world series game... wish it was two shit teams playing"

:roll:

He was up in his emotions there for some reason. OG out here rambling writing novels.

[Kblaze8855]

One of my first Couple posts on here long ago was like 4000 words about spud Webb.

The length of my responses is pretty much directly attached to how much pacing I’m doing at the moment. Get me when I’m walking around In the morning before anyone else is up? Or my treadmill warm-up at the gym? You guarantee two things. A ridiculous number of typos from speech to text and at least 1000 words.

Unrelated, but Lately I’ve been helping/cheating Doing the English Assignments for my girlfriend who decided to go back to school. I’ve got a 93 even with decades of rust on me, but I notice when having to write some set number of words for some essay or whatever some of my posts have to be deep in the thousands.

I’ll have to write 500 words for something and I bang that bitch out off the top of my head letting word dictate.

I go in thinking it’s going to be a lot of material then I realize it’s like a third of what I have to say about how Bill Laimbeer might be used in the modern league.

[Hey Yo]

I watched it from something like the fifth inning(when I remembered it) to the end. I just put the suns and Lakers on in the sunroom by the living room and kind of paced around. I had some people over none of which are baseball fans and we actually enjoyed it.

Obvious classic ending. I’m sure some fans would have preferred some scrub go up there and get struck out after his teams only star got walked. That would make for better tv.

Not having a whole teams of stars to make you pay for loading the bases.

Walk off grand slams by 8 time all stars in the World Series just ruins the game for the type who wants Homer Simpson up there for the purity of losing with scum and boring everyone to death in the process.

Has game 2 been played yet?

[Wally450]

Would've been a better series if Aaron Judge showed up. My god, what a stinker from him.

[Carbine]

Ohtani was far far worse than Judge.

Ohtani hitting .105 with a .385 OPS has to be the worst world series from a "superstar" of my lifetime. Judge at least was up near .900 OPS

[ShawkFactory]

Ohtani was far far worse than Judge.

Ohtani hitting .105 with a .385 OPS has to be the worst world series from a "superstar" of my lifetime. Judge at least was up near .900 OPS

Did you put superstar in quotes because that’s what you’d ordinarily do when using that term, or because you’re trying to imply that Shohei isn’t really one? :lol

[Hey Yo]

Would've been a better series if Aaron Judge showed up. My god, what a stinker from him.

What, it's over already? So after game 1 there was nothing of note to talk about this alleged great match-up I was told that was the best scenario for fans and those with minimal interest?

Sounds like I missed one for the ages. I'm soooo kicking myself right now.