How do you reconcile the fact that you don’t really care about the regular season….

[Kblaze8855]

…while hating that players don’t care about the regular season either?

This was about to be a list of some pretty inarguable takes from a great number of you either down right laughing at someone’s suggesting a regular season accomplishment was important or saying you didn’t care about the outcome of a game or some regular season award….

But I decided to avoid the part that would put some on the defensive. I’m not here to accuse anyone of anything. I would just like to know where you stand on the matter.

Over the last few decades the idea that the regular season doesn’t matter has grown and grown. I remember an argument on here where someone told me until a player made the playoffs they didn’t even know how to judge them. Like they can’t possibly get a ranking because you have no idea how good they are at basketball.

It was sometime ago because I remember an example being Kevin Love. He had never played a playoff game so people were saying they couldn’t rank him. I remember it getting into people like Shareef Abdur-Rahim, who went like a decade without playing in the playoffs and me asking if you simply refuse to acknowledge you can evaluate who that player is. Dude played six games in the playoffs his entire career and it was off the bench for the Kings. My point was you have eyes. You can evaluate the kind of player he was.

Long story short…many didn’t agree. Topics like this were made:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?370985-What-is-the-point-of-the-regular-season/page2



Many many many people…probably you…have shit on the regular seasons importance.


I just have to ask if you feel that way why does it bother you that players Approach it like they agree with you? Do you want the players to go all out and care about these games so you can then disregard the outcome and say they have to do it in the playoffs anyway?

If you don’t credit people for being great in the regular season, why do you care if they care about being great in the regular season?

in the end, a great many people say you have to win the ring or have sustained playoff success for anything you did to matter. So what did these players who play hard in the regular season and lose in the playoffs even get out of the deal they get paid the same? the fans are choosing to disregard many of their accomplishments.

They know that if they win the title at the end, you’re not gonna care how many games they won in the regular season.

How is this load management slacking off barely hustling not giving a shit regular season we have not just the players agreeing with the way most fans evaluate them?

many of you made DeMar DeRozan a laughing stock. Same for Embiid.

When regular season greatness is something you mock…why do you also hate to see players not concern themselves with it? You don’t care. Ultimately you as a part of the general public decide what a players legacy is. If you don’t care about the regular season…..why do you care if they care?

[Neal Romer]

My job as a fan is to say what I think about players. I make zero dollars for doing it but thats the job description. If a guy is 10 years deep and always craps out in the post season, then my opinion is going to be his regular season accomplishments no longer carry weight. Thats my opinion and as a fan its my job to give it.

A players job is to play the games. He gets paid $50,000,000 for 7 months of playing basketball. They can give opinions in their free time but it isnt their job. Theyre paid to play basketball games, regardless of how I think it does or doesnt impact the perception of their legacy.

So if everyone does their job... then the thing works.

[Neal Romer]

It's like saying someones hates to cook, so when they go to a restaurant why should they expect the chefs in the kitchen to make any effort.

That just wouldnt make sense. You do what youre paid to do.

[Kblaze8855]

It's like saying someones hates to cook, so when they go to a restaurant why should they expect the chefs in the kitchen to make any effort.

That just wouldnt make sense. You do what youre paid to do.


except the way you judge a cook is how your food tastes. If you judged a chef’s performance by how he did in cooking competitions, he goes to once a year and not by his every day performance you analogy would be apt.

If someone can cook, they can cook all the time and the quality is how you decide if they can cook. Nobody thinks the only time it counts is the judges plate you turn in at a cookoff. Fans will tell you only the higher stake performances, even matter. Then get mad when you don’t care about what they tell you doesnt count.

You’re free to care about what you want to care about. Criticizing somebody for not caring about what you don’t care about just feels kind of weird.

[Kblaze8855]

My job as a fan is to say what I think about players. I make zero dollars for doing it but thats the job description. If a guy is 10 years deep and always craps out in the post season, then my opinion is going to be his regular season accomplishments no longer carry weight. Thats my opinion and as a fan its my job to give it.

A players job is to play the games. He gets paid $50,000,000 for 7 months of playing basketball. They can give opinions in their free time but it isnt their job. Theyre paid to play basketball games, regardless of how I think it does or doesnt impact the perception of their legacy.

So if everyone does their job... then the thing works.


players are in fact, not only Paid to play games. In fact, most of them have it expressly written into their contracts that they get paid no matter if they play the game or not. Kind of makes it hard to argue that’s what they’re paid for.

Plenty of teams are the ones setting up and encouraging these load management tactics that emphasize playoff readiness. The employers are Authorizing in many cases, the plan that allows them to be paid not to play. And that’s probably because the employers are themselves largely judged by how the playoffs go. And every GM and Owner knows in the end Nobody cares what you did in the regular season if you win the championship.

Fans don’t call for the GMs head when they win 46 games because of load management then win the title.

In both cases, the fans only care about the playoffs. So again I ask, what is the motivation for anyone else to Care?

[Neal Romer]

Also, I dont judge the players on a personal level if they rest and load manage and skip games if they can get away with it. Im sure Id do the same in their position. Load managing does not make anyone a bad guy. Thats not the criticism, from me anyway.

The criticism is it's an insult to fans that the league allows it to happen. Thats what most people would agree on I reckon. Fans pay for tickets, fans pay for tv packages, the players make huge money as a result and then dont show up to play. I mean thats a massive con, and Ive personally criticized everyone involved INCLUDING the fans who remain invested in the NBA and dont seem to care what kind of product they get back. The NBAPA pushes for players to have fewer work days, and the NBA insists on keeping ak 82 game schedule. Everyone plays a part in the current state of things.

So yeah I mean it's a cycle of terribleness thats kind of coming to a peak. Players arent playing more than ever, and fans are turning away (at least based on the small initial sample sizes).

Everyone is getting what they deserve.

[Neal Romer]

Its like a lot of businesses. You hit a peak and assume you can take it even farther. You get greedy. Starbucks did this when they became popular, figured we can push it even farther, so they opened a whole bunch more Starbucks and eventually had to close many of them. They pushed it too far.

The NBA pushed it too far with keeping 82 games in the era of empowered athletes and people with a billion other options on their phones and television.

This aint 1980. You dont need the revenue of a full 82 games just to turn a little profit. They could make enormous profits off a 64 game schedule played over the same time frame, allowing more rest between games. They wont give up the money. Thats their choice.

Eventually the money will give up them, but if theyve already signed TV deals I guess it wont be their problem.

[tontoz]

I watch a lot of regular season games and they absolutely matter. The team that wins the title has been a 1 seed roughly 50% of the time historically, including the last two seasons.

[Neal Romer]

I watch a lot of regular season games and they absolutely matter. The team that wins the title has been a 1 seed roughly 50% of the time historically, including the last two seasons.


I think hes talking about them not mattering in the context of fans' opinions on players legacies. Not in the sense that you cant get an idea of a team's prospects for that year.

[tontoz]

I think hes talking about them not mattering in the context of fans' opinions on players legacies. Not in the sense that you cant get an idea of a team's prospects for that year.


Thanks for the summary. OP is the king of TLDR and i cant actually read that whole wall of text while i am working.....or any other time really. :lol

[Stephonit]

Kblaze8855, why don't you care about the regular season?

[Nowoco]

The RS absolutely sucks and has done for a long time. It's only got and will get worse as well. It's not because of load management either.

For the first 10 or so games its kinda interesting because you see where teams are at, new acquisitions, draft picks etc. Then its a slow, tedious grind until the playoffs. After the all-star break its completely unwatchable. Guys taking it easy to avoid injury, coasting to the end. The NBA's problem is that it doesnt matter which seeds are 5th down. They're not going to win so who cares? The play-in is just a crap shoot to see who gets beat down in the first round. The point is, once we know who the good teams are, that's all that matters. The top seedings don't change much from November onwards. Good teams stay good, bad teams stay bad.

Then there's the chance of stars getting hurt and being out for the season, which seems to happen more and more. It will never happen but a 50 game season, with no back to backs would be so much better. It would make games mean more and hold fan interest better. Basically more similar to the NFL.

[Kblaze8855]

Kblaze8855, why don't you care about the regular season?

I care about it all as far as watching somebody and deciding how they play.

many times, though I have been confused by fans who will tell me they can’t even begin any valuation until someone has a long playoff career. Naturally, it’s usually a young star thing. Somebody will be coming up and there will be fans who don’t even acknowledge they can get their heads around evaluating the player until they have been in the playoffs for a bunch of times.

like you can’t just watch them play 200 games and know. You need to see what numbers he puts up Playing the same team five times . He isn’t as good as he plays versus the NBA. He is as good as he plays for five games versus one team, judged largely by statistics, which are always skewed by abnormal playoff minutes and rotations and then thrown off even further by series averages being so skewed by one good or bad game.

feels like such a weird way to judge how good somebody was in a season, but we do it pretty consistently.

[Full Court]

I'm pretty sure most basketball fans enjoy watching the regular season. I do. I mean, were fans because we like watching the game of basketball...

[Neal Romer]

I care about it all as far as watching somebody and deciding how they play.

many times, though I have been confused by fans who will tell me they can’t even begin any valuation until someone has a long playoff career. Naturally, it’s usually a young star thing. Somebody will be coming up and there will be fans who don’t even acknowledge they can get their heads around evaluating the player until they have been in the playoffs for a bunch of times.

like you can’t just watch them play 200 games and know. You need to see what numbers he puts up Playing the same team five times . He isn’t as good as he plays versus the NBA. He is as good as he plays for five games versus one team, judged largely by statistics, which are always skewed by abnormal playoff minutes and rotations and then thrown off even further by series averages being so skewed by one good or bad game.

feels like such a weird way to judge how good somebody was in a season, but we do it pretty consistently.

I mean what do you want, people to put a guy with two regular seasons under his belt and no playoff appearances into the All Time 75??

You can enjoy watching a guy play and develop but if the discussion is about comparing players by greatness and legacy, which is often what people online are doing, theres no proving ground in the regular season. Except for the In-Season Tournament Presented by Kia: The Official Car Sponsor of the NBA, which has seen only one MVP in the entire history of the award. If you wanna say that stage means something, well then ok, Im buyin. But nobodys got one of those besides Lebron.

So it is what it is.

[Stephonit]

I care about it all as far as watching somebody and deciding how they play.

many times, though I have been confused by fans who will tell me they can’t even begin any valuation until someone has a long playoff career. Naturally, it’s usually a young star thing. Somebody will be coming up and there will be fans who don’t even acknowledge they can get their heads around evaluating the player until they have been in the playoffs for a bunch of times.

like you can’t just watch them play 200 games and know. You need to see what numbers he puts up Playing the same team five times . He isn’t as good as he plays versus the NBA. He is as good as he plays for five games versus one team, judged largely by statistics, which are always skewed by abnormal playoff minutes and rotations and then thrown off even further by series averages being so skewed by one good or bad game.

feels like such a weird way to judge how good somebody was in a season, but we do it pretty consistently.

The premise of the question then is wrong. People do care about the regular season.

[Carbine]

I've been saying it for years and years before the 3 pt basketball became a big thing.

Playoff basketball is much different than regular season basketball, from a viewing perspective. Basketball is so much about defensive effort and locking in on that side of the ball (it's why the all star game is such bullshit, lacks effort on defense until the final couple minutes)

Regular season for the large large majority of the games lacks that top tier defensive effort on close outs, rotations, transition defense, etc.

It's also refereed somewhere between soft and a lot softer in the regular season vs the playoffs.

I've listed of regular season MVPs and first team all NBA's in player comparisons before but to me, the ONLY games that matter to me when judging a player are playoff games. That's it, I don't care all too much about a 45 pt game against the Pistons of which they were playing the third game in four days.

It's why I've never been as high on Harden as many were back in his peak. Some even called him the best offensive player ever..... That became so clear and obvious during the playoffs to be untrue that it just was never brought up again. Ever.

It's also why I'm so down on Embiid. He just never goes above and beyond what the expectations are for him. Always hurt or coming up short.

Playoff basketball is great.

Regular season basketball I don't care for besides an occasional game. The players should care a lot about it though, because of the pay raise for making all star, all.nba teams etc. and the competition to earn minutes, keep minutes if you're an up and coming player or unproven guy. For the established guys? Once you got the supermax and all the money.... The fire leaves ya. You gotta be a special kind of competitor to take the regular season with a similar passion as you do the playoffs.

[Norcaliblunt]

I think they should get rid of the playoffs and whoever has the best regular season record is champion.

To me it’s the opposite of what people usually think. The playoffs mean nothing and the regular season is everything. The only thing a seven game series between 2 highly competitive teams proves is who has a better coaching staff.

[ShawkFactory]

I think they should get rid of the playoffs and whoever has the best regular season record is champion.

To me it’s the opposite of what people usually think. The playoffs mean nothing and the regular season is everything. The only thing a seven game series between 2 highly competitive teams proves is who has a better coaching staff.

Shocker.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I think they should get rid of the playoffs and whoever has the best regular season record is champion.

To me it’s the opposite of what people usually think. The playoffs mean nothing and the regular season is everything. The only thing a seven game series between 2 highly competitive teams proves is who has a better coaching staff.

I don't want to see this idea enacted because playoff basketball is the best basketball but I will point out that this would make players, fans and everyone else care about the regular season again. I don't like the idea because although it would increase the intensity of the few times the Cavs or Cs play the Thunder I don't see it rising to the excitement of the Finals. It would be a better version of what college football used to be like. The NCAA created a playoff for a reason.

[Wally450]

I think they should get rid of the playoffs and whoever has the best regular season record is champion.



Totally random, but imagine the Premier League or other European leagues having knockout stages similar to the Champions League? Easy money printer.

[999Guy]

The regular season is the fun part. The playoffs are overrated as hell. I can't think of many actual playoff series I care to go back and watch.

Very few truly great moments come out of the playoffs. Very few truly great matchups. It's too random and arbitrary.

Matchups never seen in the playoffs:

Hakeem vs. Jordan

Robinson vs. Jordan

(prime) Duncan vs Garnett

Kobe vs. LeBron

Wade vs. Kobe

CP3 vs. Wade

CP3 vs. Nash

Kidd vs. Nash

CP3 vs. LeBron

Kawhi vs. LeBron

Harden vs. LeBron

(prime) Harden vs. Luka

**** the playoffs. The best don't even necessarily face the best. But somehow individual players are defined by it, even head to head.

[ShawkFactory]

The regular season is the fun part. The playoffs are overrated as hell. I can't think of many actual playoff series I care to go back and watch.

Very few truly great moments come out of the playoffs. Very few truly great matchups. It's too random and arbitrary.

Matchups never seen in the playoffs:

Hakeem vs. Jordan

Robinson vs. Jordan

(prime) Duncan vs Garnett

Kobe vs. LeBron

Wade vs. Kobe

CP3 vs. Wade

CP3 vs. Nash

Kidd vs. Nash

CP3 vs. LeBron

Kawhi vs. LeBron

Harden vs. LeBron

(prime) Harden vs. Luka

**** the playoffs. The best don't even necessarily face the best. But somehow individual players are defined by it, even head to head.

Kind of a narrow-minded way to look at it. With just the 90s examples alone, we got:

Jordan vs Barkley

Jordan vs Malone x2

Jordan vs Shaq

Malone vs Hakeem x3

Robinson vs Hakeem

Shaq vs Hakeem

Duncan vs Malone

Duncan vs Shaq

etc.

[Norcaliblunt]

Shocker.

I lol’d

[Norcaliblunt]

The purest most honest way to see which “team” is better is to do it like combat sports.

Give teams a training camp and you come out play ONE game to see who’s better.

None of this you lose and make adjustments crap.

[Norcaliblunt]

You gotta factor in the home court advantage bullshit too.

There’s too much arbitrary crap beyond basketball skill or talent that players have to overcome to be successful in the NBA.

I say **** the NBA, it’s regular season, and it’s playoffs.

I wanna see super teams duke it out after proper training camps, fully rested, in neutral locations, where the winner is decided by one game.

[ShawkFactory]

The purest most honest way to see which “team” is better is to do it like combat sports.

Give teams a training camp and you come out play ONE game to see who’s better.

None of this you lose and make adjustments crap.

A team being able to effectively make adjustments is a big part of what makes them great.

On top of that, in one game scenarios you of course have those outlier shooting games that can fvck anyone at any time. The better team can lose at any time in the NBA if the teams are even remotely evenly matched.

[Norcaliblunt]

A team being able to effectively make adjustments is a big part of what makes them great.

On top of that, in one game scenarios you of course have those outlier shooting games that can fvck anyone at any time. The better team can lose at any time in the NBA if the teams are even remotely evenly matched.

Like any other thing in the “real world” it’s all about showing up in the moment. How many other professions are there where you get to fail, adjust, try again, and that determines who the best is?

The best show up the first time. Bottom line.

[ShawkFactory]

Like any other thing in the “real world” it’s all about showing up in the moment. How many other professions are there where you get to fail, adjust, try again, and that determines who the best is?

The best show up the first time. Bottom line.

Most of them..?

The best salesmen aren't closing multi-million dollar deals right away, they miss miserably as they learn. New doctors fvck up diagnoses or procedures.

Of course there are amazingly talented outliers. But in almost any profession, the best are the ones who can appropriately assess their failures and make adjustments to come out better.

[Norcaliblunt]

Most of them..?

The best salesmen aren't closing multi-million dollar deals right away, they miss miserably as they learn. New doctors fvck up diagnoses or procedures.

Of course there are amazingly talented outliers. But in almost any profession, the best are the ones who can appropriately assess their failures and make adjustments to come out better.

So the world’s best surgeon has 7 tries? He can fail and adjust?

We are talking about real skills. Not fake ass sales. Lmao.

Your doctor example is hilarious too. So they can guess with your health 7 times to get a diagnosis. You’re going to a doctor like that?

[Norcaliblunt]

The problem is why stop at best of seven? Why not best of 9? Or 11?

On and on and on and on.

It’s all made up bs.

[ShawkFactory]

So the world’s best surgeon has 7 tries? He can fail and adjust?

We are talking about real skills. Not fake ass sales. Lmao.

Your doctor example is hilarious too. So they can guess with your health 7 times to get a diagnosis. You’re going to a doctor like that?

:lol

Sales is absolutely a skill and an enormous driving force in a capitalistic society. Nothing happens until something is sold.

But anyway..the doctor example was a about a young one. Some of the best in the world have made mistakes early in the careers and corrected from them.

In an NBA series, evenly teams are feeling each other out and making corrections based on what they've learned.

[Norcaliblunt]

:lol

Sales is absolutely a skill and an enormous driving force in a capitalistic society. Nothing happens until something is sold.

But anyway..the doctor example was a about a young one. Some of the best in the world have made mistakes early in the careers and corrected from them.

In an NBA series, evenly teams are feeling each other out and making corrections based on what they've learned.

Sales is a numbers game and a bullshit profession. Fail a million times to get one sale. Thats vulture shit. Might as well be a bum standing on the corner asking for change. Suckers sucking in suckers. Yes the best sales people are the ones who fail all the time. I agree.


So let me ask you why not 9 games?

If a 7 game series goes every other game why not 9 games?

[Norcaliblunt]

You can’t reconcile anything because the OP is weak.

Kblaze is the best example of a person who acts like he knows but he doesn’t know shit. Maybe some country shit. But this dude is as fake as anyone.

[SouBeachTalents]

You can’t reconcile anything because the OP is weak.

Kblaze is the best example of a person who acts like he knows but he doesn’t know shit. Maybe some country shit. But this dude is as fake as anyone.
You may want to look in the mirror for a better example of that.

[Norcaliblunt]

You may want to look in the mirror for a better example of that.

How many threads do I post? Name them.

How many does Kbkaze?

I comment on less than half of what you post. Lol.

You can not agree with what I say, ok, but y’all the ones on here daily defending lebron. Lol.

[ShawkFactory]

Sales is a numbers game and a bullshit profession. Fail a million times to get one sale. Thats vulture shit. Might as well be a bum standing on the corner asking for change. Suckers sucking in suckers. Yes the best sales people are the ones who fail all the time. I agree.


So let me ask you why not 9 games?

If a 7 game series goes every other game why not 9 games?

You're a really weird guy :lol

But anyway..yes, the best in the world at every profession fail. Particularly when up against counterparts who are also among the best. Some of the best business moguls ever have failed with things plenty of times. Even after you knew who they were. The most talented quantum physicists (not that I know shit about the granular details of this) have miscalculated and lost a particular discovery to someone equally as talented occasionally. They all just learn and go on to the next one. And that next one may come down to right place right time, and right action at that particular time.

Which bring it to an NBA series...sometimes the best can lose to someone equal or slightly lesser if the other happens to get it right that particular day. The best ones eventually figure it out.

9 games is literally just too much time to spend. At some point you have to draw a line logistically. 7 may even be too much but there's a lot of money involved so...