Nuggets defeat Undefeated OKC without Jamal Murray

[bdonovan]

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401704743

124-122

Westbrook is the points leader (along with Ja Williams of OKC) at 29 pts ; scoring an efficient 10-15 (3-4 from 3 pt range). Westbrook perhaps on revenge mode against OKC.

Christian Braun also with a surprising 24 points- 7-14 (4-8 from 3 pt range).

Chet just 5-14 for OKC.

[tontoz]

There was also a guy who put up 23/20/16. Can't remember his name though.

[highwhey]

damn, so jokic has teammates that can score well and contribute in meaningful ways? he has no excuse this year then, amirite?

[Neal Romer]

Westbrook forgot he was Westbrook for a night. Nice timing with Murray and Gordon out but doesnt negate whats hes been the last 4 years unfortunately.

If Braun can shoot the ball with reasonable consistency he actually becomes an upgrade over KCP due to being a better defender and finisher at the basket (KCP is no slouch in these areas but Braun is actually elite). Braun is basically a mini Aaron Gordon. Having two of those guys in one lineup being fed Jokic passes is pretty mean.

It still hurts losing KCP overall tho cuz last year you had him and Braun both, now you have only 1.

The bench guys stepped up last night but unless they KEEP it up (very unlikely) I just dont see them as a playoff threat with their current depth.

[tontoz]

I am watching the game now. I agree that Braun is a key player this season. He has the size and athleticism to defend Ant.

We had KCP for a year and I liked him but he was pretty lame off the dribble. Braun is definitely better off the dribble but his shot is a question mark.

Obviously the same is true with Watson but I am less optimistic about him.

[90sgoat]

Westbrook forgot he was Westbrook for a night. Nice timing with Murray and Gordon out but doesnt negate whats hes been the last 4 years unfortunately.

If Braun can shoot the ball with reasonable consistency he actually becomes an upgrade over KCP due to being a better defender and finisher at the basket (KCP is no slouch in these areas but Braun is actually elite). Braun is basically a mini Aaron Gordon. Having two of those guys in one lineup being fed Jokic passes is pretty mean.

It still hurts losing KCP overall tho cuz last year you had him and Braun both, now you have only 1.

The bench guys stepped up last night but unless they KEEP it up (very unlikely) I just dont see them as a playoff threat with their current depth.

Braun has some talent and a much bigger upside than just an energy guy. He is very athletic and not afraid of anyone. He could easily become a third option better than MPJ.

[White Hammer]

damn, so jokic has teammates that can score well

Nope. If Westbrook and the other guys shot at their normal rate last night then the game likely ends a 10+ point blowout. Just because everything clicked for one evening doesn't mean the nugs are suddenly stacked.

[tontoz]

Wild game. Nuggets were down 16 midway through the 3rd, then cut it to 3 in like 3 minutes.

[tontoz]

Wow what a great game. Felt like an elimination game in the playoffs.

JWill was a beast. They are going to be really tough when Hartenstein joins them.

Denver is more fun to watch without Murray. He slows them down and they have to hide him on defense. They were definitely looking to push the pace more than normal.

[highwhey]

Wow what a great game. Felt like an elimination game in the playoffs.

JWill was a beast. They are going to be really tough when Hartenstein joins them.

Denver is more fun to watch without Murray. He slows them down and they have to hide him on defense. They were definitely looking to push the pace more than normal.

too bad jokic cant win without murray going into superstar mode in the playoffs

[tontoz]

too bad jokic cant win without murray going into superstar mode in the playoffs


They almost made the wcf with Murray shooting like crap.

[highwhey]

They almost made the wcf with Murray shooting like crap.

operative word: with murray

losing to minny last year was a legacy hit for jokic, ol boy wasnt ready for a team with good defenders

[tontoz]

operative word: with murray

losing to minny last year was a legacy hit for jokic, ol boy wasnt ready for a team with good defenders


How many games did the Suns win against Minny?

:lol

[hold this L]

operative word: with murray

losing to minny last year was a legacy hit for jokic, ol boy wasnt ready for a team with good defenders
Don't post this at that other forum. Just read some dude saying Jokic might be the best player in NBA history :lol

[Neal Romer]

Don't post this at that other forum. Just read some dude saying Jokic might be the best player in NBA history :lol


Well outside the clear GOAT Lebron, Jokic is among a group of players it's reasonable to believe that about.

[tontoz]

Jokic averaged 29/11/8 against Minny in the playoffs with a TS of 60%. I doubt that will hurt his legacy.

Meanwhile Murray averaged 18/4/4 with a TS of 48% :facepalm

[highwhey]

How many games did the Suns win against Minny?

:lol

whataboutism does not apply here unfortunately, since the suns are not being held to high standards or GOAT conversations.


Don't post this at that other forum. Just read some dude saying Jokic might be the best player in NBA history :lol

ridiculous. he's not the best ever, not until he can beat teams and do so with a different teammate. that's what seperates him and bron/jordan, the latter can turn any halfway decent talent into what they need to win. jokic depends on murray to turn into kobe, there's a difference.


Well outside the clear GOAT Lebron, Jokic is among a group of players it's reasonable to believe that about.

because he won a title against a non-title caliber team? that may be one of the weakest finals ever. if he had beat minnesota last year, i'd concede...but he gave up against anthony edwards and role players.

[highwhey]

Jokic averaged 29/11/8 against Minny in the playoffs with a TS of 60%. I doubt that will hurt his legacy.

Meanwhile Murray averaged 18/4/4 with a TS of 48% :facepalm

that's great, no one is denying he is great. the delta between "great" and GOAT/GOAT of GOATS is quite significant however. like not losing to anthony edwards and role players.

[tontoz]

that's great, no one is denying he is great. the delta between "great" and GOAT/GOAT of GOATS is quite significant however. like not losing to anthony edwards and role players.


Not sure why you are making this argument to me. I never said he was the GOAT, or even close. Plus he is only 29 so there are several years left before we can really get a read on his all time raking, which i am generally not a fan of anyway.

As far as i am concerned the top 3 all time are MJ/Lebron/Kareem. I really don't care about the order. MJ is my favorite player all time but if someone says Lebron or Kareem is the GOAT i don't care and certainly would never argue about it.

I think Jokic is on track to be consensus top 10.

Let's not forget there are no other All-Stars on his team and they have a weak bench. The roster isn't exactly stacked.

[Neal Romer]

because he won a title against a non-title caliber team? that may be one of the weakest finals ever. if he had beat minnesota last year, i'd concede...but he gave up against anthony edwards and role players.

There are different ways to measure a player's greatness. Many people rely on team success, I happen to think that's an illogical and overvalued cop out.

By my personal ways of evaluating greatness, Jokic is one of the best to ever play. Hes within range where someone can put him #2 behind Lebron and not be "wrong." There are no players with unassailable resumés. MJ didnt win without Pippen. Hakeem failed numerous times. Russell and Wilt and West played for big markets in 12 team leagues with no parity measures.

Team achievements have nothing to do with how an individual plays basketball. Obviously you cant call Aaron McKey the GOAT and expect not to be considered wrong. But differing opinions of worthy players is reasonable.

[hold this L]

whataboutism does not apply here unfortunately, since the suns are not being held to high standards or GOAT conversations.



ridiculous. he's not the best ever, not until he can beat teams and do so with a different teammate. that's what seperates him and bron/jordan, the latter can turn any halfway decent talent into what they need to win. jokic depends on murray to turn into kobe, there's a difference.



because he won a title against a non-title caliber team? that may be one of the weakest finals ever. if he had beat minnesota last year, i'd concede...but he gave up against anthony edwards and role players.
He might have went through the worst SRS run in NBA playoff history in 2023 lol

Dude's going to be 30 by the time he's in the playoffs this year and he has beaten 1 50 win team in his career. While he's amazing, the glazing from Jokic from all the nerds that are obsessed with stats is crazy.

[Axe]

Joker is already better than jordan when it comes to career per. Casuals wouldn't like to hear it tho.

[tontoz]

Watson and Braun combined for 37 points last night on high efficiency. If those two start scoring consistently that is a game changer for them

[meat]

Joker is in the Matrix. He's so chill he sees things in slo mo

[Street Hunger]

is Jamal Murray slower this season?