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View Full Version : Bigger/stronger/faster or crafty/skilled/deliberate?



Kblaze8855
11-20-2024, 12:43 PM
Obviously, the ideal is both. But if you have To choose your teams next franchise player, who is the current unknown to you what do you think is the safer bet?

They can both work obviously. The people who have a perceived deficit in some skills(true or otherwise) and get a lot of “If he didn’t have that body….” have historically been very successful. So have a lot of the “Goddamn he’s good…too bad he cant keep up with quick players” types who traditionally aren’t considered good defenders or at least have physical traits that let them be taken advantage of. There are obviously exceptions going both ways. Some of the super athletes in fact are incredibly skilled despite the perception that athletic ability is why they are in the league. Some of the non athletes have been good defenders and more athletic than given credit for. But we are speaking generally.

Feel free to add or remove whoever you want from these lists because I’m not here to argue with you about if somebody qualifies. But just broadly speaking, we are talking about players like


Giannis
Wilt
Shaq
Lebron
Russell(stupid or not…people didn’t think he was especially skilled and still don’t)
Dwight
Westbrook



and

Jokic
Steph
Nash
Reggie
Stockton
Chris Paul
Luka
Bird
Kyrie
Pistol Pete

We can extend both lists by quite a lot, but you know what I’m talking about. And again it is not my position that the people on the first list aren’t skilled, nor is it my position that the people on the second list are all bad athletes who don’t play defense. I’m just talking general public perception of people who prosper mostly off athletic ability vs people who are considered more skill forward to make up for a lack of ability to do that. Feel free to add or remove whoever you think should or should not be on any list. Whatever you have to do to keep you from coming in here and taking issue with where I put any of them. Feel free to talk about it just know I don’t feel adamant enough to debate you over it.


i’m just asking who you feel either based on history or today is the safer bit to win with?

They are literally dozens of championships going both ways. Shaq has rings. Russell, who you can find quotes from the time saying he was awful at basketball skills wise Just like idiots do today with every great athlete. LeBron has rings no matter what you think of his traditional skill set. Giannis and Jokic may both retire with just one but neither needed a super team to get it. Steph has rings. Bird.

You can do it both ways and that is well established. You can fail both ways and that is well established. From the dregs of the league to the all-time elites, there are great athletes and great skill guys and immensely skilled losers and jumping jacks who couldn’t get it done.

This can be Shaq vs Bird, Westbrook vs Pistol Pete, Jose Calderon vs Tony Allen.

You know your next franchise player is one of the greatest athletes of all time or one of the most Skilled and you have absolutely no more information other than the knowledge that the total package is considered a can’t miss prospect. This isn’t some raw athlete who can’t play and it isn’t some gym built super skilled nobody who can’t play in the confines of a team.

You’re not gonna get somebody who has both. It’s not gonna be Hakeem. It’s not going to be Jordan. It’s going to be somebody who(by public perception at least) leans heavily in the direction you choose.


Which way do you think is the safest bet?

highwhey
11-20-2024, 12:46 PM
https://bid.juliensauctions.com/images/lot/4036/403610_xl.jpg?ts=1730287047

Neal Romer
11-20-2024, 12:56 PM
Well if I have to take one OR the other as a franchise centerpiece, then I take the skill guy and let him shoot efficiently and create for others.

But the obvious caveat as you stated is that it's ideal to find someone with both. I understand why guys like Lebron and Shaq are on your list with Westbrook and Dwight in terms of examples of freak athletic specimens, but Lebron and Shaq also have the smarts and skills, which is why theyre top 5 players of all time. I think it's misleading to use them as examples of 'great athlete, not skilled." Thats more like DeAndre Jordan and some of the others you listed.

Kblaze8855
11-20-2024, 01:02 PM
Well if I have to take one OR the other as a franchise centerpiece, then I take the skill guy and let him shoot efficiently and create for others.

But the obvious caveat as you stated is that it's ideal to find someone with both. I understand why guys like Lebron and Shaq are on your list with Westbrook and Dwight in terms of examples of freak athletic specimens, but Lebron and Shaq also have the smarts and skills, which is why theyre top 5 players of all time. I think it's misleading to use them as examples of 'great athlete, not skilled." Thats more like DeAndre Jordan and some of the others you listed.


I see a good rule of thumb category wise is if you have ever heard the sentence “He’s lucky he’s so athletic” or “When his athleticism fades….” he’s a category 1.


Once the discussion is had about if you would be good in a different body, you’re the kind of player I’m talking about. It doesn’t have to be fair or even accurate. But those questions are only asked about a certain type of player.

interestingly enough, a lot of the great players that gets said about end up playing long ass careers but still. It’s a decent guide.

Charlie Sheen
11-20-2024, 02:09 PM
I will build with the Giannis category because their deficiencies are usually overstated by a greater amount.

ralph_i_el
11-20-2024, 05:38 PM
I tend to root for crafty/skilled/deliberate over the bigger/stronger/faster. Can't really explain why. It just seems like those types of players epitomize what makes the game beautiful to me.

Full Court
11-20-2024, 07:35 PM
Well, we all saw how Lebron vs. Dirk turned out, so definitely skilled/crafty/deliberate.

iamgine
11-20-2024, 10:31 PM
You know your next franchise player is one of the greatest athletes of all time or one of the most Skilled and you have absolutely no more information other than the knowledge that the total package is considered a can’t miss prospect. This isn’t some raw athlete who can’t play and it isn’t some gym built super skilled nobody who can’t play in the confines of a team.

You’re not gonna get somebody who has both. It’s not gonna be Hakeem. It’s not going to be Jordan. It’s going to be somebody who(by public perception at least) leans heavily in the direction you choose.


Which way do you think is the safest bet?

Definitely the greatest athlete type.

The super skilled is likely an average-bad defender. Also, skills are flooded with guards. You are most likely getting a Kyrie/CP/Isiah and not a Jokic/Bird. With the greatest athlete, your odds of getting Giannis, Bron, Shaq type are much better.