ESPN’s list of best trios. I’m not sure 2, 3, or 4 would trade them for number one.

[Kblaze8855]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2411220251590339.jpeg

[Kblaze8855]

if the Celtics caught Denver and wanted Jokic alone for Tatum and Brown is that gonna be accepted? I kind of don’t think so. I don’t think they could get Luka and Kyrie either. White is better than some of the third options, but the Celtics are so good because you could put two other guys in that third spot as well.

I think the top guy in a Trio can do some real heavy lifting. Michael Finley is a way better third option than Derek Fisher, but that doesn’t mean Nash Dirk and Finley is a better trio than Shaq/Kobe/Fish does it?

Is it a better trio if you can’t trade your three and get the other three even when your three are younger?


Also not Sure how Randle isn’t on the list for Minnesota, but maybe I haven’t been paying enough attention

[SouBeachTalents]

I concede Reaves is going to be the weakest 3rd option amongst all these trios, but how many of these duos would you really take over LeBron & AD for this season? Considering they're the best duo in the league, and have actually managed to stay healthy since last year, they should be at least 5 spots higher.

[Kblaze8855]

I just saw they don’t have Ingram on the pelicans. Maybe there’s some kind of advanced stat they are ranking the three Best by.

[Neal Romer]

These are some extremely contrived big 3s.

A lot of these guys have never made an all star game.

Brandin Podzeimski averages 7.5 points in 24 minutes on putrid efficiency this season. He's part of a Big 3?

Stephon Castle is 19 years old and has played 12 NBA games. But hes part of a Big 3 long with Wemby and... Devin Vassell??


This list has to be the most pointless list ever made. A "Big 3" is a collection of three players who are significantly accomplished in their own right.

They need to just stop using the term Big 3 if they think it can be applied to every single team's three most supposedly important players.

[Charlie Sheen]

Zero chance Kevin Durant will not notice his second placement for the suns

[Neal Romer]

Is this list from before the season? Reed Sheppard is averaging 12 minutes per game.

Whoever made the list and whoever greenlit it to be published should both be handed pink slips.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Jokic is enough of a stud that you could say he's worth Tatum and Brown but the Celtics wouldn't do it because it makes them older and disrupts the championship formula.

The OKC trio doesn't make the team better and you have to manage Holmgren's health for the rest of his career. If they were all that great they would have made the Finals. Only big advantage over the guys they have is Holmgren's length and the possibilities that presents and they already have a talented big whose health they have to worry about.

The Maverick trio is laughable. The Celtics repeatedly destroyed them last year and will do so again this year. They are supposed to be better offensively but currently the Celtic trio averages more points and is worlds better defensively. And that's not even touching on the level of hate Irving gets whenever he comes to Boston. It's gotten to the point where even I concede the "**** you kyrie" chanting is going too far. That's one player the Celtics will be leaving alone from here on out.

[Kblaze8855]

The Celtics didn’t Win because of a trio. The Celtics won because they went six deep with players worth talking about and probably eight or nine deep with players worth playoff minutes. Kinda like the bad boy Pistons. They couldn’t compete with teams like the Lakers and Celtics because they had three guys to match the other teams best three. They had seven guys to beat your best 3-4.

I don’t think Dallas trade a Luka centered for the Celtics package. They might trade the Mavericks for the Celtics. But that is a very different question.

The Bulls wouldn’t have traded you Jordan for Isiah Dumars, and Mark Aguirre just because they beat him all the time.

You start with the god tier guy and see what you can put around him. Omar accurately you don’t give yours up for the core of a great team without the many extra pieces that makes it what it is.

The same Celtics Trio got beat by the seventh or eighth seed heat the season before and luckily that teams best player wasn’t playing in the rematch. They got better but the margin they improved isn’t the same as that trios improvement. The whole team improved.

You can’t really get all that to Dallas without trading like…6 for 3.

[Kblaze8855]

If they were all that great they would have made the Finals.



Considering that only two teams can make it how often would you say the two best trios are the two in the finals? I bet it doesn’t happen that often. That’s just the kind of shit I would spend way too long trying to think about. I’m gonna go get my Jimmy John’s off the porch and start “From” till football comes on. People won’t stop insisting I watch that show.

[tpols]

I concede Reaves is going to be the weakest 3rd option amongst all these trios, but how many of these duos would you really take over LeBron & AD for this season? Considering they're the best duo in the league, and have actually managed to stay healthy since last year, they should be at least 5 spots higher.


I don't think anybody would take the Boston trio over Lebron and AD alone. You don't even have to include Reaves. Bostons strength is their depth and top ran organization.

[L.Kizzle]

None of these are actually trios. 3 players together don't make it a trio lol. Steph-Klay-Dray was a real trio.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The Celtics didn’t Win because of a trio. The Celtics won because they went six deep with players worth talking about and probably eight or nine deep with players worth playoff minutes. Kinda like the bad boy Pistons. They couldn’t compete with teams like the Lakers and Celtics because they had three guys to match the other teams best three. They had seven guys to beat your best 3-4. You're acting like the Celtics best players had nothing to do with it. You give all these other guys all this credit ignoring things like Doncic being a terrible defender and Irving off and on on that end of the floor. Dallas for murdered in the finals as a direct result of Brown giving Doncic a hard time on both ends of the floor. The Celtics hunted Doncic for the whole series. That kind of negative doesn't matter?


I don’t think Dallas trade a Luka centered for the Celtics package. They might trade the Mavericks for the Celtics. But that is a very different question.] When's the last time someone complained about Tatum or Brown's conditioning? Do they have a hard time playing hard on both ends of the floor for the whole game? I'm sure Dallas loves Doncic but one of the keys to the Celtics great defense is the fact they can put Tatum on nearly anybody. He came into the league as a wing and in a lot of ways still is one but they have him guard bigs like Giannis and switch him into anyone in pick and rolls with no fear. When Porzingis went down he became one of the main defenders on Adebayo. Can you imagine a world where Doncic functioned as a vital part of a great defense in any capacity, let alone functioning as a versatile defender that almost always starts out defending a player outside of his natural position?


The: wouldn’t have traded you Jordan for Isiah Dumars, and Mark Aguirre just because they beat him all the time.We putting Doncic up there with Jordan now? MJ was a DPoY. Doncic is one of the laziest defenders in the league. We shouldn't be going here at all.


You start with the god tier guy and see what you can put around him. Omar accurately you don’t give yours up for the core of a great team without the many extra pieces that makes it what it is.

The same Celtics Trio got beat by the seventh or eighth seed heat the season before and luckily that teams best player wasn’t playing in the rematch. They got better but the margin they improved isn’t the same as that trios improvement. The whole team improved.They got beat...in the conference finals. Which they have made 5 times in Tatum's career. 6 for Brown, though I don't make as big a deal out of that because rookie Brown was a roleplayer. 2 of the there years with Derrick White reached the NBA Finals and since you remember Butler being hurt I'm sure you remember that Tatum turned his ankle early in the game 7 they lost to the Heart two years ago. People make a big deal about injuries to Celtic opponents but tend to overlook that the Celtics have had their share. Bottom line is these guys have done a lot of winning. Ainge and Stevens have put an excellent team around them but they have kept the core as is for a reason.


You can’t really get all that to Dallas without trading like…6 for 3. And things went so well with Kyrie leading the team. What a shame.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Considering that only two teams can make it how often would you say the two best trios are the two in the finals? I bet it doesn’t happen that often. That’s just the kind of shit I would spend way too long trying to think about. I’m gonna go get my Jimmy John’s off the porch and start “From” till football comes on. People won’t stop insisting I watch that show.
Two or of their threes years together Tatum Brown and White made the Finals though that first year no one would have called White part of some trio. And as mentioned they were close to going three of three.

[Kblaze8855]

I’m not acting like the Celtics best players don’t matter. I’m saying a team that won with depth and a whole lot of good players won with depth and a whole Lotta good players. I didn’t watch the Pistons beat the Lakers and think Ben Wallace or Chauncey Billups were better at basketball than Shaq or Kobe. I think we are both seen way too much basketball to genuinely believe that’s how it works.

A closer comparison might be Paul Pierce versus Kobe in 2008. Yes, I see who won. But I can’t pretend I don’t know why.

I don’t think you could get Jokic, Luka, Giannis, AD, or Shai for Tatum in a straight basketball swap. With mitigating circumstances like injury, issues, age and all that? Sure. Just talking how well they play basketball? I don’t know how sure I am that he’s better than 40-year-old LeBron. Better defender. Better at basketball? Eh.

You aren’t getting Wemby for Tatum For similar reasons, you wouldn’t get Tatum for LeBron.

there are a lot of teams who would have to call an emergency meeting to sit down and discuss Tatum for their best player. I wouldn’t trade Anthony Edwards for Tatum though I feel it’s close enough I wouldn’t trade Tatum for Edwards either. I’d just stick with what I had either way.

Tatum is in the Paul Pierce or maybe Steve Nash range where he is one of the top players in the league but if you call for the elite players of that error teams don’t wanna make that trade. Nash won two MVPs, but you couldn’t call the Lakers in 2007 and get Kobe for him if Kobe weren’t demanding a trade. Barkley was incredible. But you couldn’t call the bulls and ask for Jordan. And you couldn’t call the Rockets and get Hakeem.

There are the arrows elite players, and then there are those more normal superstars.

Tatum is a superstar but he’s not this eras Michael/Magic/Bird.

That was Lebron/Steph/KD last decade and it’s probably Jokic/Luka/Giannis the last few with Tatum, Embiid, Harden, and so on the guys on that next level far as how history will see it.

In truth, there is never as big a gap as history suggests there was.

But there’s a gap.

Hard to trade the second level guys for the top. The difference is there even when the top guys don’t have the whole team to have the winning behind them.

Luka is….kinda a monster. People overuse the Term but he is different. He is a next level legend. Not just somebody who goes to the Hall of Fame. That guy is “This doesn’t make any sense” good at basketball.

I’m not saying he is Jordan, but I’m saying he represents that top tier of his era that the level below can’t really get to.

There are always a few. He’s one of those people your grandkids won’t believe was doing what he does if it weren’t on film.

History suggests you don’t trade that if he’s not demanding it and he’s healthy.

history also suggest you don’t break up the champion for no reason so I’m not even saying as a Celtic fan you should want Tatum to be traded for one of these guys. Youve already won. Mission accomplished. I’m talking from the perspective of someone on the outside.


if I have to add Luka or Jokic….or Tatum and Brown to the Bulls?

I would definitely take Jokic. Wouldnt even stop to think.

Id….strongly consider Luka but I’d want a second guy to sweeten the deal. They happen to have one.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I'm not arguing about Jokic but you overrate Doncic severely. You continue to ignore how big and bad of a problem his defense is. A guy that is so far above his peers can't have a massive flaw that a team directly exploits to beat him in the Finals. This isnt nitpicking over a few missed shots. This is pointing out that Jaylen Brown road outplaying him in both ends to the Finals MVP award. Every time Doncic was on him they made sure to get Brown the ball and generally went at Doncic however they could
He was a fundamental part of the Celtic offense in the Finals. And he comes back after that in as poor condition as ever. How is this kind of flaw so completely irrelevant?

SGA hasn't created any real separation either but I will grant that he's a complete player.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm not arguing about Jokic but you overrate Doncic severely. You continue to ignore how big and bad of a problem his defense is. A guy that is so far above his peers can't have a massive flaw that a team directly exploits to beat him in the Finals. This isnt nitpicking over a few missed shots. This is pointing out that Jaylen Brown road outplaying him in both ends to the Finals MVP award. Every time Doncic was on him they made sure to get Brown the ball and generally went at Doncic however they could
He was a fundamental part of the Celtic offense in the Finals. And he comes back after that in as poor condition as ever. How is this kind of flaw so completely irrelevant?

SGA hasn't created any real separation either but I will grant that he's a complete player.


Stop dude, Doncic is a one man offense, Brown in his spot would never come cose to the NBA Finals.

Dont even try to say he would.


SGA shows youre too caught up on the whole "complete" part, as SGA is a worse player than Doncic, clearly.

[Kblaze8855]

I'm not arguing about Jokic but you overrate Doncic severely. You continue to ignore how big and bad of a problem his defense is. A guy that is so far above his peers can't have a massive flaw that a team directly exploits to beat him in the Finals. This isnt nitpicking over a few missed shots. This is pointing out that Jaylen Brown road outplaying him in both ends to the Finals MVP award. Every time Doncic was on him they made sure to get Brown the ball and generally went at Doncic however they could
He was a fundamental part of the Celtic offense in the Finals. And he comes back after that in as poor condition as ever. How is this kind of flaw so completely irrelevant?

SGA hasn't created any real separation either but I will grant that he's a complete player.


The Celtics aren’t better than Dallas because Luka doesn’t play good defense. They’re better than Dallas because They have their fourth or fifth best player be able to come out there and completely dominate a finals game.

Make Luka an average defender Boston still has a waaaaaaay better 1-8.

This is one of those things where people look at what happened and act like there is no other way it could go. The Celtics game plan could’ve been just about anything and they would’ve won that series. When the Lakers play the Nets in the finals and decide to exploit Shaq’s mismatch against every other human, it worked. That doesn’t mean if he only scored 25 and decided Kobe could do a little more.m it goes from a sweep to a Nets win.

The talent discrepancy makes all game plans valid.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Stop dude, Doncic is a one man offense, Brown in his spot would never come cose to the NBA Finals.

Dont even try to say he would.


SGA shows youre too caught up on the whole "complete" part, as SGA is a worse player than Doncic, clearly.

Doncic is also a 4 man defense, because he doesn't play it. Why reply if you're not going to address the point? Defense does actually matter. Playing it is part of the reason I conceded that SGA is a "complete" player.

[tpols]

Stop dude, Doncic is a one man offense, Brown in his spot would never come cose to the NBA Finals.

Dont even try to say he would.


SGA shows youre too caught up on the whole "complete" part, as SGA is a worse player than Doncic, clearly.


Now that's it's been brought up, an I'm thinking about it... can you imagine Tatum on Dallas in Lukas place?

I honestly don't think they even make the playoffs. There'd be a massive playmaking and passing gap. Defense is mostly a team scheme thing. And honestly, Tatum isn't some stud defender any way.

And on the other side of the equation, Luka on Boston would just be game over.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The Celtics aren’t better than Dallas because Luka doesn’t play good defense. They’re better than Dallas because They have their fourth or fifth best player be able to come out there and completely dominate a finals game.

Make Luka an average defender Boston still has a waaaaaaay better 1-8.

This is one of those things where people look at what happened and act like there is no other way it could go. The Celtics game plan could’ve been just about anything and they would’ve won that series. When the Lakers play the Nets in the finals and decide to exploit Shaq’s mismatch against every other human, it worked. That doesn’t mean if he only scored 25 and decided Kobe could do a little more.m it goes from a sweep to a Nets win.

The talent discrepancy makes all game plans valid.

But if Doncic was a solid defense with the conditioning to carry the offensive load that is the basis of his reputation while still doing a respectable job of defense wouldn't that make a difference? Think about the Finals. How many times did Doncic take over the fourth quarter vs being ineffective while Dallas got blown out? Doncic gets viewed as a great player for a number of reasons but one of the most important is h8s ability to take over in the fourth quarter. If a team can wear him out by targeting him so that he doesn't have the energy to take over, which the Celtics did, and get some of their best offense by attacking him, which the Celtics did, that has to matter. Until he gets into the kind of shape he needs to be in to defend while getting all these points and assists he's not seeing himself apart from the other superstars. Now he could if he took conditioning seriously but until he does he doesn't get that kind of credit.

[Meticode]

I saw this on X and literally laughed when I saw Golden State's trio.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Now that's it's been brought up, an I'm thinking about it... can you imagine Tatum on Dallas in Lukas place?

I honestly don't think they even make the playoffs. There'd be a massive playmaking and passing gap. Defense is mostly a team scheme thing. And honestly, Tatum isn't some stud defender any way.

And on the other side of the equation, Luka on Boston would just be game over.

You've brought this up before as if the Celtics didn't just win the championship and go 16-3 in the playoffs.

[tpols]

You've brought this up before as if the Celtics didn't just win the championship and go 16-3 in the playoffs.

They won the championship with Tatum shooting and playing like crap. There are like... at least 20 players who could've won in his place.

Somebody like Fox or Lamelo who are top 20 types would've won there. Just because your team won doesn't mean your best player was a juggernaut. Because he clearly wasn't.

[ShawkFactory]

They won the championship with Tatum shooting and playing like crap. There are like... at least 20 players who could've won in his place.

Somebody like Fox or Lamelo who are top 20 types would've won there. Just because your team won doesn't mean your best player was a juggernaut. Because he clearly wasn't.

Ah see you took it too far.

[tpols]

I saw Fox play peak Curry to pretty much a draw in the playoffs H2H. There is no too far.

Put Tatum on the Kings and see what happens.

Nada.

[Neal Romer]

Now that's it's been brought up, an I'm thinking about it... can you imagine Tatum on Dallas in Lukas place?

I honestly don't think they even make the playoffs. There'd be a massive playmaking and passing gap. Defense is mostly a team scheme thing. And honestly, Tatum isn't some stud defender any way.

And on the other side of the equation, Luka on Boston would just be game over.

Among guys who are also good offensive players, I would say Tatum is one of the best defensive wings.

That said, of course hes not as good as Doncic overall. Luka is a perennial MVP consideration, Tatum led on one of the most dominant teams ever and nobody seriously considered him for MVP.

Considering they play a similar role theres no question if you swap them Dallas will get worse, Celtics would likely stay equal at the least, maybe improve. You do change the nature of their pace and their offense and so on with Luka. Sometimes less is more. Just because hes a better player straight up doesnt *necessarily* mean the team improves with him to the same extent. But maybe they do. Maybe by a lot. Or maybe not. It's impossible to say without seeing it.

But it feels pretty safe to say Tatum would not have been able to fill Luka's role in Dallas with the same degree of success. Boston probably still wins with Luka but I dont know that he takes them to some further degree of dominance. They were already dominant as is, I dont think adding Doncic means they go 82-0 and 16-0 in the postseason.


They would have to add Lebron for that :crazysam:

[Real Men Wear Green]

They won the championship with Tatum shooting and playing like crap. There are like... at least 20 players who could've won in his place.

Somebody like Fox or Lamelo who are top 20 types would've won there. Just because your team won doesn't mean your best player was a juggernaut. Because he clearly wasn't.

I have never pointed at the Celtics last championship as the reason why Tatum is a great player. I bought it up because you continue to stupidly act like the Celtics would be so much better with Doncic. They are the Champs. 16-3 in the playoffs. 64 wins. And how would Doncic make anything better? The test of the team didn't and doesn't need the level of ball dominance Doncic requires to get more points and assists than Tatum. They do need a big versatile athletic wing to fit Tatum's role in the defense. Which is excavation what Doncic can't do. If the Celtics had Doncic they would have to change the team to cover up for his defense instead of relying on Tatum's. None of this is helping.

[ShawkFactory]

I’ve seen Dame outplay pretty much everyone at some point too. Doesn’t mean the Bucks will look better with him in place of Jrue Holiday.

Removing Tatum from the Celtics, a team who’s only remote weakness is size, and replacing him with a poor defensive, VERY high usage small PG (already have 2 PGs..) and expecting things to look the same or as effective is silliness.

[Axe]

They won the championship with Tatum shooting and playing like crap. There are like... at least 20 players who could've won in his place.

Somebody like Fox or Lamelo who are top 20 types would've won there. Just because your team won doesn't mean your best player was a juggernaut. Because he clearly wasn't.
Tatum's versatility is one of the reasons why the Cs won the finals last time. Just because luka is greater offensively doesn't mean you should overlook it. There are two different ends in basketball, after all.

[999Guy]

Stop dude, Doncic is a one man offense, Brown in his spot would never come cose to the NBA Finals.

Dont even try to say he would.


SGA shows youre too caught up on the whole "complete" part, as SGA is a worse player than Doncic, clearly.

No, he absolutely isn't. SGA's defensive gap on Luka is ridiculous. Way more than any offensive gap.

Which leads to the great point of SGA/Williams/Holmgren clearly being the best trio in the NBA.

It's a new age Harden/WB/Durant


Tatum's versatility is one of the reasons why the Cs won the finals last time. Just because luka is greater offensively doesn't mean you should overlook it. There are two different ends in basketball, after all.
However I would never go this far. None of the stats back up Tatum's versatility doing anything for the Celtics to the degree White, Holiday and Brown's defense did for them. All Tatum did was chuck the most shots. The defensive side went to the guards. The offensive side was a complete team effort of a tema that goes 12 deep with good shooting.

KP when right was better than Tatum in the playoffs.

[Real Men Wear Green]

However I would never go this far. None of the stats back up Tatum's versatility doing anything for the Celtics to the degree White, Holiday and Brown's defense did for them. All Tatum did was chuck the most shots. The defensive side went to the guards. The offensive side was a complete team effort of a tema that goes 12 deep with good shooting.

KP when right was better than Tatum in the playoffs.I realize the shot was off but Tatum led the Celtics in points, rebounds and assists in the playoffs (and is so far this season as well). No player in NBA history has scored more playoff points before the age of 27. That has a lot to do with playing in a lot of playoff games but has just as much to do with being a guy that has helped his team win a lot of playoff games. He's set records for points in both the play-in as well as Game 7. Regarding defense last playoffs you should take note of the fact that Tatum guarded bigs. All of the Celtics starters are strong defenders and when JB steps up to shut down Doncic on an important possession it certainly deserves praise. But don't ignore that a guy that came into the NBA as a 2/3 just had to defend Bam Adebayo and Evan Mobley. He doesn't shut these guys down but he plays them competently and when you consider the fact that he's a wing and him doing this while rebounding on par with a true power forward is vital to allowing the Celtics to start two combo guards and not having much shot blocking when Porzingis is out.