29 teams in 2024 shoot more threes than the 2016 Warriors' 31.6 3PA....

[Phoenix]

I just came across a video this morning that made this claim so fact-checked and yep, the 73-9 Warriors led by two of the top 3-4 greatest shooters in the history of the league, who spearheaded the modern small-ball 3 point blitz offense, would only outrank the Raptors(30.5 3PA) if you put them in 2024.

Don't really expect this thread to get much traction, just found it an interesting factoid as to how much Pandora's box opened with the 3point revolution. As you were....

[Kblaze8855]

RMWG close this thread please. This is why I don't make threads here and we already see where this one is headed.


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2411240204310324.gif

[Phoenix]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2411240204310324.gif

:cheers:

[Kblaze8855]

That out of the way….

I heard something like that recently. I was reminded of when the team you’re talking about was going strong and somebody pointed out that Dwights magic who broke the record set by the Nashs suns was also shooting less threes than anybody in the league at that point. I really hope this had gone as far as it’s going to go, but I suspect it has not. I think a team last year or the year before was the first to shoot more than 50% threes over some period of time. But that almost sounds quaint right now.

[Phoenix]

Speaking on Nash's Suns, the same video theorized that had they been even more aggressive with the 3pointer , they're quite possible going all the way one of those years( and who know what happens in 2007 without Horry checking Nash into the stands). Steve was the only sharp-shooter per se, so maybe that meant letting him loose more as a scorer.

Right now it's just Boston shooting more than half their shots as 3s, with Charlotte on the cusp. I just think it's interesting how much the attempts have skyrocketed because really, no team now has remotely close to the combined shooting talent of Steph and Klay( and KD when he was there).

[Kblaze8855]

Only all time elite sure but difference today is that they don’t have only “real” shooters shoot. The approach has changed from taking shots you make to taking shots that keep the defense honest. The spacing is more important than the short term results of a single shot missing. They had plenty of shooters who would be encouraged to run wild today. I heard Nash talking about how he should have taken so many more but they didn’t get it then. He said he’d be way more aggressive if he could go back.

[Phoenix]

What are your thoughts on pushing the line back beyond 25 feet ( maybe even 26-27ft), maybe even removing the corner 3 altogether? I'm not sure how you get the horse back into the barn at this point other than making it a harder shot. Or will the players just make a point of extending their range to where it doesn't matter? Steph, Dame, and a handful of others( even Logo Lebron on a good day) can stroke it that far back as is.

[Neal Romer]

It sort of amazes me it took 40 years for teams to realize the potential of a shot that's 50% more valuable but less than 50% harder to make.

[Kblaze8855]

What are your thoughts on pushing the line back beyond 25 feet ( maybe even 26-27ft), maybe even removing the corner 3 altogether? I'm not sure how you get the horse back into the barn at this point other than making it a harder shot. Or will the players just make a point of extending their range to where it doesn't matter? Steph, Dame, and a handful of others( even Logo Lebron on a good day) can stroke it that far back as is.

crazy as it is, the players would adjust almost overnight. And then all you have is even greater spacing. This is why teams started practicing with a four-point line years ago. They want player standing 25 to 28 feet back to make the defense come out there and guard them to make it impossible to recover and help. You can have the corner three eliminated by having the line go at an angle to out of bounds, which might help. But the distance would stretch the floor even more out front.

Youre never going to get teams to disregard the math. No corners at least would help. I wonder how offenses would be shaped that way. We should at least get a lot more cutting.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The NBA really should do something about the three-point era. The problem for you non-Celtic fans is all the ass-kickings, and that's a direct result of having two teams face each other that shoot threes at different levels. Hate to see turned ankle so the rule against getting under the shooter likely has to stay but maybe take a look at bringing back hand-checking? Think about ways to make perimeter defense possible again. There are way too many shot attempts where whether the shot is made or missed had nothing to do with the defense being played. I've learned to hate step back threes, which brings me to the next rule change I would endorse almost out of spite: behind the three point line the limit is one step permitted negotiations a shot or else it's a travel.

[Phoenix]

I say revert the rules back to the early 2000s. If the players are more 'skilled' as we're told nowadays then they should be able to adjust to not having near unrestricted movement. And/or, introduce FIBA rules into the league so there's some synergy with Int'l play ( will also make it less of a shock when Team US goes to the Olympics, as they're playing the same brand as everyone else).

[ArbitraryWater]

Thats just amazing/crazy

[L.Kizzle]

8+ years is a long time.
Listen to an album from 1981 and listen to one from 1989. Night and day.
On the other hand, Hip-Hop in 2016 sounds the same today.

[Kblaze8855]

The problem for you non-Celtic fans is all the ass-kickings



The problem for me is games being repetitive and boring. It’s been quite a while since a game was played where I genuinely cared who won.

[Neal Romer]

8+ years is a long time.
Listen to an album from 1981 and listen to one from 1989. Night and day.
On the other hand, Hip-Hop in 2016 sounds the same today.

That's the Sigmoidal Curve in action.

https://ittybiz.com/wp-content/uploads/s-curve-business.jpg

Pace of change happens most dramatically in the middle phase of a transition. The early and end stages are much more plateau'd.

If you listen to recordings from the 20s to the 40s they sound pretty much the same. By the 50s things start to evolve quickly and it lasts pretty much until file sharing took off in the early 2000s, and then it changes slowly again.

Pretty interesting.

[Phoenix]

8+ years is a long time.
Listen to an album from 1981 and listen to one from 1989. Night and day.
On the other hand, Hip-Hop in 2016 sounds the same today.

Yes, but if you want to go 8 years back from 2016, in 2008 the Warriors ironically(pre Splash Bros) led the league with 26.6 attempts. 8 years later, with markedly better shooters on the team we're talking about here, they took exactly 5 more attempts. You can even go back to 2000, another 8 year window, the Kings were taking 20 attempts at the top of the league. The increases seemed more organic going back from 2016, then from 2016 to now where the Celtics are taking over 50 threes and there isn't a single team under 30 attempts. If the league naturally expanded the 3point philosophy at the same rate from 2016, at most the highest shooting team should be taking 36-40 attempts.

As an aside, going back to 1996 the top 3point taking team were the Mavs at 24.9 attempts, they actually were up on the 2000 Kings interestingly enough. The Nash Suns shot 24 attempts in 2007 at 40%, they definitely are probably kicking themselves now for not taking close to 30 back then.

[Neal Romer]

Yes, but if you want to go 8 years back from 2016, in 2008 the Warriors ironically(pre Splash Bros) led the league with 26.6 attempts. 8 years later, with markedly better shooters on the team we're talking about here, they took exactly 5 more attempts. You can even go back to 2000, another 8 year window, the Kings were taking 20 attempts at the top of the league. The increases seemed more organic going back from 2016, then from 2016 to now where the Celtics are taking over 50 threes and there isn't a single team under 30 attempts. If the league naturally expanded the 3point philosophy at the same rate from 2016, at most the highest shooting team should be taking 36-40 attempts.

As an aside, going back to 1996 the top 3point taking team were the Mavs at 24.9 attempts, they actually were up on the 2000 Kings interestingly enough.

Once again, the S-Curve.

It takes a while for change to catch on but once it passes a critical mass and catches on wholesale, the numbers jump quickly.

[Phoenix]

Once again, the S-Curve.

It takes a while for change to catch on but once it passes a critical mass and catches on wholesale, the numbers jump quickly.

It's funny how long it took for the math to math with the league though( which I think you said earlier). Like nobody pulled out a calculator before 2014.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The problem for me is games being repetitive and boring. It’s been quite a while since a game was played where I genuinely cared who won.

One thought I disregarded was awarding 3 points for dunking over a defender. A bad idea for discouraging defense of course. Give us Wilt's paint back, give the bigs an edge that encourages a different style of basketball.

[Phoenix]

One thought I disregarded was awarding 3 points for dunking over a defender. A bad idea for discouraging defense of course. Give us Wilt's paint back, give the bigs an edge that encourages a different style of basketball.

I had a slightly wackier notion but not one subject to well...subjectivity like dunking on someone (that's akin to awarding style points). Make points in the paint and/or in the restricted area 3 points. Make defending the paint a thing again and the reward for penetrating the interior greater. In essence inverting scoring to make paint scoring more valuable than spamming forty 25 footers a night.

Again probably wacky, but I'm out of ideas.

[Duffy Pratt]

Probably the only time I’ve ever been interested in an idea by Nick Wright, but here it is: Limit the number of three pointers made to 8, or 10, per team per game. After a team hits the limit, long distance shots count for two only.

I like this, but might modify it. Keep the limit at 6 per game made, but award another for every foul committed by the other team in the penalty.

[Meticode]

Me after the first quarter and watching both teams shoot 20 threes between each other...

https://media4.giphy.com/media/QxRc8rXFB7jmHqvcNq/200w.gif

[Real Men Wear Green]

The ratings problems likely have much to do with a perceived lack of competion. (https://frontofficesports.com/cavs-vs-celtics-draws-big-tv-numbers-in-nba-cup-showdown/) Because people think the Cavs are a threat to Boston that match can still get viewers. And it also doesn't help that we have so much load management of stars on nationally televised games. Silver should talk to these owners behind closed doors and make them understand that if they don't put their stars out there when the national spotlight is on eventually everyone will suffer.

[Neal Romer]

Me after the first quarter and watching both teams shoot 20 threes between each other...

https://media4.giphy.com/media/QxRc8rXFB7jmHqvcNq/200w.gif


Theres still a good amount of teams that run varied actions and movements and play sharp basketball to get an open shot. It may still result in a three attempt but the ways in which they create the shot are interesting.

It's really the Celtics in particular whose style is a turn off because they really dont run anything. It's just one guy or the other drives and shoots or drives and kicks. It's not a criticism, they do it because it won them a championship. It works. But THAT style is what's really repetitive. And not that fun to watch. But not every team, I think still not most teams play that way. Teams shoot a lot of threes but they also have a lot of exciting plays as well. Celtics it's kind of just a very efficient Groundhog Day.

[Phoenix]

Theres still a good amount of teams that run varied actions and movements and play sharp basketball to get an open shot. It may still result in a three attempt but the ways in which they create the shot are interesting.

It's really the Celtics in particular whose style is a turn off because they really dont run anything. It's just one guy or the other drives and shoots or drives and kicks. It's not a criticism, they do it because it won them a championship. It works. But THAT style is what's really repetitive. And not that fun to watch. But not every team, I think still not most teams play that way. Teams shoot a lot of threes but they also have a lot of exciting plays as well. Celtics it's kind of just a very efficient Groundhog Day.

At an individual level that's why Steph is exciting to watch in spite of half his shots being 3s. Off the dribble,off screens, catch and shoots, all areas of the floor. If he was taking the same type of shots he wouldn't be nearly as interesting.

In general though I think the average fan would rather a return to more varied basketball in terms balancing 3s, mid range, post play, less foul baiting/flopping, tighter rules on travel/ball handling, and the return of. physical defense. Not getting clotheslined Rick Mahorn style, but something akin to early 2000s. Hell even post 2004 was more physical by comparison to today, and that was when the league opened up the perimeter for your flashy guards and wings to showcase their talents free of handchecking. Bring that back with some modifications.

[RRR3]

At an individual level that's why Steph is exciting to watch in spite of half his shots being 3s. Off the dribble,off screens, catch and shoots, all areas of the floor. If he was taking the same type of shots he wouldn't be nearly as interesting.

In general though I think the average fan would rather a return to more varied basketball in terms balancing 3s, mid range, post play, less foul baiting/flopping, tighter rules on travel/ball handling, and the return of. physical defense. Not getting clotheslined Rick Mahorn style, but something akin to early 2000s. Hell even post 2004 was more physical by comparison to today, and that was when the league opened up the perimeter for your flashy guards and wings to showcase their talents free of handchecking. Bring that back with some modifications.
The early 2000s was an absolute brickfest, total deadball era. League average TS% was in the low 50s (current old man Westbrook would be decently efficient in that league). No thanks.

[Phoenix]

The early 2000s was an absolute brickfest, total deadball era. League average TS% was in the low 50s (current old man Westbrook would be decently efficient in that league). No thanks.

Well the players are better shooters/ball-handlers now, so shouldn't be the same level of 'brickfest'. It doesn't have to be 1:1 with those rules, but we clearly see what the complete pendulum swing towards offense has done. There needs to be a better balance and offense needs to feel earned. As I said, even in 2004 when they removed handchecking it opened up the perimeter but didn't make a complete mockery of defense.

[ArbitraryWater]

Probably the only time I’ve ever been interested in an idea by Nick Wright, but here it is: Limit the number of three pointers made to 8, or 10, per team per game. After a team hits the limit, long distance shots count for two only.

I like this, but might modify it. Keep the limit at 6 per game made, but award another for every foul committed by the other team in the penalty.

6? lmao.

Should be like 20. The 3P should still be able to count as a strength.

[3ba11]

6? lmao.

Should be like 20. The 3P should still be able to count as a strength.


The reality is that basketball was good until Silver went too far in 2017 with the "no impede" rules and other rules that he instituted at that time - this skyrocketed threes and PPG...

Up until these changes, the game was pretty-much fine - it was maybe a tad too many threes by 2016 but nothing like today... Accordingly, the way to fix the game is to roll back the "no impede" rules and the other recent rule changes, which makes penetration more difficult, thereby reducing drive-and-kick (the primary method to generate 3-point looks)