Curry with a 5th ring?

[StrongLurk]

I would put him in the top ten at that point (assuming he gets FMVP too).

I still firmly believe he is in the top 12-15 range all time currently.

[highwhey]

top 12-15 is fair.

if you take into account the nickelodean awards, he's closer to 12.

[Neal Romer]

Yeah bro. It's all about that ring count.

[StrongLurk]

Yeah bro. It's all about that ring count.

Well, rings with FMVPs are the most important "value" in the GOAT debate. So yeah, Curry winning a ring/FMVP would boost his ranking.

It's not about fairness, it's just reality, GOAT debates require winning on some level, fair or not fair.

[Full Court]

I would put him in the top ten at that point (assuming he gets FMVP too).

I still firmly believe he is in the top 12-15 range all time currently.

Yes.

The question is, who would you boot out of the top ten if you add Curry?

[John8204]

I would put him in the top ten at that point (assuming he gets FMVP too).

I still firmly believe he is in the top 12-15 range all time currently.

I agree...he's still not at 25K points...it's really an issue of when you can rank him ahead of Oscar Robertson who carried a terrible for years and put up monster stat lines.

If he doesn't end his career top ten in points I can't justify putting him top ten all-time. If he gets a fifth ring I would rank him ahead of Hakeem, Moses and maybe Duncan

[L.Kizzle]

I agree...he's still not at 25K points...it's really an issue of when you can rank him ahead of Oscar Robertson who carried a terrible for years and put up monster stat lines.

If he doesn't end his career top ten in points I can't justify putting him top ten all-time. If he gets a fifth ring I would rank him ahead of Hakeem, Moses and maybe Duncan

If he plays about 3 more seasons at this level, he'll reach the top 10 in points. He might reach the top 20 by years end.

[John8204]

If he plays about 3 more seasons at this level, he'll reach the top 10 in points. He might reach the top 20 by years end.

So he has to maintain his productivity as a shooter when he gets near 40...he's also behind Durant and Harden. The Warriors also would have to keep him under contract because his contract expires at 39.

Point being...the fifth ring helps but I believe we've reached his basic level.

[dankok8]

He's consensus top 12 for me and my last list had him at #10 exactly. With a 5th ring I think he probably moves up another couple of spots on average. Realistically though he's in that 5-12 range for me either way. Absolute legend but not quite a GOAT candidate.

[999Guy]

He'd barely break into my hypothetical top 20 if he played prime level through this year and playoffs.

Rings mean nothing.

[StrongLurk]

Yes.

The question is, who would you boot out of the top ten if you add Curry?

Really hard to say. Probably Bird or Wilt for me.

I think the most fair thing to do is start having separate top ten lists for pre-3-point line and post-3-point line (Kareem being the only exception). There are just too many GOAT players through NBA history now.

Top ten list of 3-point era players would be this for me in no order.

MJ, Lebron, Kareem (only exception), Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Hakeem. Well that's 9 players, the 10th spot is up for grabs between Moses Malone, Curry, KD, and Jokic.

[ArbitraryWater]

Im not a ring counter but of course a ring comes with putting together a formidable run as leader most probably, so youd see it in that sense and youd have to respect that and accordingly adjust the player if he does so.

Results matter. Getting something done matters.

I would have never thought this before 2022 but hed probably have a good top 10 shout.

Although its hard to break anyone between Bron/MJ/Kareem/Hakeem/Shaq/Wilt/Russell/Bird/Magic/Duncan, but I think the last 2 spots are breakable if Curry does this.

[Phoenix]

If we just want to do the Rings/FMVP thing, a 5th ring and two FMVPs for me puts him in the Magic( 5/3), Bird( 3/2), Duncan(5/3), and Shaq( 4/3) range, just outside the MJ/Kareem/Lebron/Russell range of players who have a GOAT case depending on the criteria. He has Shaq beat in MVPs, one less than Bird and Magic and equal to Duncan. And an all-time 3point record that's not likely to be beaten in our lifetimes.

Then you got Kobe and Hakeem who obviously warrant inclusion in the conversation. And we always seem to forget Wilt nowadays.

Anywhere from 6-10 is a reasonable rank. Problem is there's like 15 players worthy of being in the top 10, so you start nitpicking to vouch for whoever you want to include. I continue to push for tiers above rankings. Who is #6 vs who is #9 vs who is #4 vs who is #12 is an increasingly pointless discussion.

[Phoenix]

He'd barely break into my hypothetical top 20 if he played prime level through this year and playoffs.

Rings mean nothing.

What's your criteria when removing rings? I've been watching since the late 80s and he's clearly one of the most impactful players on the floor if we want to just throw accolades out.

[Phoenix]

It occurs to me.... Jokic has a decade in the league, looking to tie up MVP #4 ( I think he's going to at least catch MJ there), ring/FMVP ( much harder to predict if he wins another one), and the numbers are eye-popping. At what point are we going to discuss him as top ten-12 all-time, just based off what he's done and with his playstyle could conceivably do this shit another 8 years even if his scoring winds down and allows for other teammates to lead in that category like 2nd half of his career Duncan?

[John8204]

It occurs to me.... Jokic has a decade in the league, looking to tie up MVP #4 ( I think he's going to at least catch MJ there), ring/FMVP ( much harder to predict if he wins another one), and the numbers are eye-popping. At what point are we going to discuss him as top ten-12 all-time, just based off what he's done and with his playstyle could conceivably do this shit another 8 years even if his scoring winds down and allows for other teammates to lead in that category like 2nd half of his career Duncan?

We really couldn't/shouldn't talk about Jokic's legacy until he's 33/34 because with bigs the dropoff is insane

[Phoenix]

We really couldn't/shouldn't talk about Jokic's legacy until he's 33/34 because with bigs the dropoff is insane

Why? People were calling Jordan the GOAT( prematurely) in 1990 before he won a damn thing. Jokic's credentials are already HOF worthy and if he stopped playing today, he's already got a legacy. And at 33, barring injury he's likely to be exactly as he is now. His game isn't athletic-based so his game will age like fine wine. He's already relatively slow as fukk ( though his co-ordination is underrated), he's not going to lose something he never had 3 years from now.

[John8204]

Why? People were calling Jordan the GOAT( prematurely) in 1990 before he won a damn thing. Jokic's credentials are already HOF worthy and if he stopped playing today, he's already got a legacy. And at 33, barring injury he's likely to be exactly as he is now. His game isn't athletic-based so his game will age like fine wine. He's already relatively slow as fukk ( though his co-ordination is underrated), he's not going to lose something he never had 3 years from now.

Jokic ain't Jordan..and also in 1990 Pete Maravich, Tiny Archibald, and Elvin Hayes were in the top twenty. Jordan was the tip of the 80's spear he was ahead of Hakeem, Barkley, Dave Robinson, Stockton, Malone, Reggie, Ewing and it was a rising tide.

Jokic might be ahead of Durant, Giannis, and Chris Paul or he's below Harden, Donic, and Kwahi. We Know he's behind Lebron and Curry (right) but we don't really know what declining Jokic is going to be. A decline of a big could be 3 seasons(shaq, dwight, griffin, ewing, ming).

[Phoenix]

Jokic ain't Jordan..

Never said he was, but after 10 years he already has a first ballot HOF career. Or you can just look at what your eyes tell you if you have the ability to judge his ability on its own merit.

and also in 1990 Pete Maravich, Tiny Archibald, and Elvin Hayes were in the top twenty.

No they weren't.


Jokic might be ahead of Durant, Giannis, and Chris Paul or he's below Harden, Donic, and Kwahi.

Laughable.


We Know he's behind Lebron and Curry (right) but we don't really know what declining Jokic is going to be.

Based on?


....

[90sgoat]

top 12-15 is fair.

if you take into account the nickelodean awards, he's closer to 12.

Agree.

He's clearly in that category of greats that just need to win some more rings and then they'll be in the top 10.

[Phoenix]

Agree.

He's clearly in that category of greats that just need to win some more rings and then they'll be in the top 10.

Why? People tend to rate guys like Oscar, West and Moses in that range with 1 ring. Why would Curry, with 4, need to win more rings?

[90sgoat]

Why? People tend to rate guys like Oscar, West and Moses in that range with 1 ring. Why would Curry, with 4, need to win more rings?

I meant Jokic.

[Phoenix]

I meant Jokic.

Ok, well the poster you quoted was referring to Curry so I fairly assumed you were as well. So you think Joker is around top 12 as of now....?

[90sgoat]

Ok, well the poster you quoted was referring to Curry so I fairly assumed you were as well. So you think Joker is around top 12 as of now....?

Yes, another ring would put him solidly around 7-10.

[3ba11]

When you guys say that Curry is in the top 12-15 range, you're just regurgitating the media narrative.

Everyone's top 10 rankings are based on a small cabal of journalism majors called the media

If the media never told you guys that Magic or Russell were top 10, you wouldn't know.

That's why I came up with my own top 10 criteria, so my top 10 isn't a replica of a few dozen journalism majors with group think.. carry on

[SouBeachTalents]

When you guys say that Curry is in the top 12-15 range, you're just regurgitating the media narrative.

Everyone's top 10 rankings are based on a small cabal of journalism majors called the media

If the media never told you guys that Magic or Russell were top 10, you wouldn't know.

That's why I came up with my own top 10 criteria, so my top 10 isn't a replica of a few dozen journalism majors with group think.. carry on
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493318-Curry-is-the-most-overrated-player-in-history

[Phoenix]

When you guys say that Curry is in the top 12-15 range, you're just regurgitating the media narrative.

Everyone's top 10 rankings are based on a small cabal of journalism majors called the media

If the media never told you guys that Magic or Russell were top 10, you wouldn't know.

That's why I came up with my own top 10 criteria, so my top 10 isn't a replica of a few dozen journalism majors with group think.. carry on

Your initial narrative was Curry was the most overrated player ever. Said during the off-season. Then 2 months later you switched it to he's top 10. Don't make me bring out the gifs.... of course you'll say you changed your mind or whatever because you like to squirm out of every bullshit statement you make, but your initial comment was ban-worthy stupidity.

Also, there is growing sentiment that he is top 10 amongst media pundits. So your attempt to act like you're the enlightened one falls flat on its face as usual.

[StrongLurk]

I think the most fair thing to do is start having separate top ten lists for pre-3-point line and post-3-point line (Kareem being the only exception). There are just too many GOAT players through NBA history now.

Top ten list of 3-point era players would be this for me in no order.

MJ, Lebron, Kareem (only exception), Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Hakeem. Well that's 9 players, the 10th spot is up for grabs between Moses Malone, Curry, KD, and Jokic.

[Phoenix]

^ Even fairer would be to have Tier lists. The guys who have some kind of GOAT case are in Tier 1. Then you have the 'just outside the GOAT debate' guys and then down the line. It's all subjective ultimately, but the best thing to do is measure dominance relative to your peers, not across the history of the league. Too many things have happened in 77 years of NBA basketball to compare Bill Russell's achievements against MJs or against Lebron's. Nobody is going to win 11 rings again. Nobody is going 6 for 6 again. Nobody is going to score 40, 000 points again. Circumstances play too much of a role in what a player achieves both individually and team-wise.