What exactly was the Wolves reasoning for trading KAT?

[RRR3]

They are not looking good without him. Randle is a nice player but he's certainly not as good as KAT and I think KAT fits much better with Gobert and Edwards. I know they threw in Divincenzo too but he's been absolutely dreadful.

[L.Kizzle]

8-9.
Looking like the usual T-Pupps.

Last season at the same time, were 13-4.

[RRR3]

8-9.
Looking like the usual T-Pupps.

Last season at the same time, were 13-4.
Yeah, why blow up a WCF team? Madness. Probably gonna have to move Randle or Gobert now.

[Im so nba'd out]

to avoid the second apron

[Overdrive]

They are not looking good without him. Randle is a nice player but he's certainly not as good as KAT and I think KAT fits much better with Gobert and Edwards. I know they threw in Divincenzo too but he's been absolutely dreadful.

Xiao has be the Wolves' GM.

[RRR3]

Xiao has be the Wolves' GM.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Real Men Wear Green]

to avoid the second apron

This likely was the reason. CBA makes it majorly expensive to keep a good team together. Most owners pretend to care so much about winning but really maintaining high profits is the most important thing.

[Meticode]

Money.

[tontoz]

to avoid the second apron

Yeah it was inevitable with his contract. Their ownership drama doesnt help.

[Xiao Yao You]

Flexibility and depth. Even getting 2 for 1 their depth is thin. They have more flexibility to make moves going forward.

[John8204]

They are not looking good without him. Randle is a nice player but he's certainly not as good as KAT and I think KAT fits much better with Gobert and Edwards. I know they threw in Divincenzo too but he's been absolutely dreadful.

They are trying to find a better fit for Edwards...it's also early in a conference that is stacked. Next year is going to be the deciding point for what the team did.

[RRR3]

They are trying to find a better fit for Edwards...it's also early in a conference that is stacked. Next year is going to be the deciding point for what the team did.
Trying to find a better fit doesn't make sense when they were 3 wins away from the finals. They had a winning formula and they went away with it.

[tontoz]

Minny currently has the 2nd highest payroll in the league. The luxury tax restrictions are serious now, practically a hard cap. I was saying last season that they would probably have to trade Towns who has over $200 million left on his contract.

[Manny98]

Minny currently has the 2nd highest payroll in the league. The luxury tax restrictions are serious now, practically a hard cap. I was saying last season that they would probably have to trade Towns who has over $200 million left on his contract.
They got one of the worst contracts in the league in Rudy Gobert taking up all their cap space

Paying 40 million a year for a guy who struggles to catch simple passes and is awful offensively outside of setting screens and gets targeted defensively in the playoffs

[tpols]

It really made no sense. I said it was a dumb trade at the start and people laughed saying KAT sucks and is soft.

Now he's averaging 26/13 on absolute sniper efficiency with the Knicks.

[tontoz]

They got one of the worst contracts in the league in Rudy Gobert taking up all their cap space

Paying 40 million a year for a guy who struggles to catch simple passes and is awful offensively outside of setting screens and gets targeted defensively in the playoffs


Gobert will make $35,000 next year. While that is a lot the real problem was how much they gave up to get him. Ainge bent them over.

[RRR3]

It's not like they had to trade KAT immediately for cap purposes though, they could have ran it back. They were 3 games away from the finals as I said, why not try and go for a ring when you're that close?

[tpols]

Minny currently has the 2nd highest payroll in the league. The luxury tax restrictions are serious now, practically a hard cap. I was saying last season that they would probably have to trade Towns who has over $200 million left on his contract.

Not looking good now bro...

Guy is averaging MVP numbers with New York right now.

[tontoz]

Not looking good now bro...

Guy is averaging MVP numbers with New York right now.

That really doesn't matter.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-offseason-what-is-the-cbas-second-apron-and-how-does-it-limit-high-spending-teams-215607328.html

[tpols]

That really doesn't matter.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-offseason-what-is-the-cbas-second-apron-and-how-does-it-limit-high-spending-teams-215607328.html

:roll:

Of course it does. They didn't have to trade him.

[tontoz]

:roll:

Of course it does. They didn't have to trade him.


:facepalm

[Real Men Wear Green]

:roll:

Of course it does. They didn't have to trade him.
T-Wolves are a business. Of course profit matters. They are (possibly) in the middle of being sold. Things like that don't happen if Glen Taylor doesn't care about money.

[tpols]

And winning leads to long term profit. Nobody is tuning in to watch the bad teams. Now the wolves are basically a lotto team again. Their ceiling right now is 1st round exit. Ants gonna eventually bounce just like Garnett did. Then it's back to the basement for Minnesota and their franchise value for any potential buyers will be signifigantly lower.

[Real Men Wear Green]

You are ignoring the obvious point. He went as far as agreeing to sell the team and even taking payments before pausing the sale when he claimed A-Rod missed a payment. That was in March of this year. He is a capitalist. He is trying to make money.

[tontoz]

I found an example of the financial cost of being over the 2nd apron. Of course this doesn't even take into account all of the trade/free agent restrictions.


If, instead, you're a team that is $30m over the luxury tax (so $12.5m over the 2nd apron), your tax bill this year $152m.

[Xiao Yao You]

They got one of the worst contracts in the league in Rudy Gobert taking up all their cap space

Paying 40 million a year for a guy who struggles to catch simple passes and is awful offensively outside of setting screens and gets targeted defensively in the playoffs

Poor manny! Gobert underpaid as always and will be a better value than hes been since his rookie deal woth his newest deal as bad as he is he continues to be a huge role on the best teams in the league as he has for a decade

[Xiao Yao You]

Gobert will make $35,000 next year. While that is a lot the real problem was how much they gave up to get him. Ainge bent them over.

Until they get their next franchise player the wolves have won the deal

[Manny98]

Poor manny! Gobert underpaid as always and will be a better value than hes been since his rookie deal woth his newest deal as bad as he is he continues to be a huge role on the best teams in the league as he has for a decade
I know trolls hate facts but the Timberwolves are currently 12th in the West and Rudy has yet to get a team get past the second round of the playoffs in his career

[Xiao Yao You]

I know trolls hate facts but the Timberwolves are currently 12th in the West and Rudy has yet to get a team get past the second round of the playoffs in his career

Didnt they get past the 2nd round last year when they beat the favorite and defending champ? Its early. Made a trade right before the season. Also a lottery pick finding his way. They ll be in the mix as gobert teams always are

[Proctor]

Wolves are awful! And good luck with that Gobert contract. Eat **** Edwards!

[RRR3]

Wolves are awful! And good luck with that Gobert contract. Eat **** Edwards!
Why do you hate Edwards so much? :lol

[Overdrive]

Didnt they get past the 2nd round last year when they beat the favorite and defending champ? Its early. Made a trade right before the season. Also a lottery pick finding his way. They ll be in the mix as gobert teams always are

In the mix for what? Winning one playoff series? Sure, if they make it there.

[ImKobe]

It really made no sense. I said it was a dumb trade at the start and people laughed saying KAT sucks and is soft.

Now he's averaging 26/13 on absolute sniper efficiency with the Knicks.

He is soft and he sucks when it matters most in the POs. Knicks right now at least aren't doing better than they were last year, their defense has had issues just like Minnesota and KAT is one of the worst defenders in the league. Wolves are basically where they were on offense last year despite trading KAT and despite Conley & Dinvincenzo struggling.

Knicks are built to be a better fit for KAT tho so I'm not surprised he's playing better there as far as his offense goes, but I'm still not going to trust him come Playoff time before he proves it. Look at his first 3 games against Dallas to open up that WCF and you see why he got moved. He's played below his RS numbers every year in the POs.

[RRR3]

He is soft and he sucks when it matters most in the POs. Knicks right now at least aren't doing better than they were last year, their defense has had issues just like Minnesota and KAT is one of the worst defenders in the league. Wolves are basically where they were on offense last year despite trading KAT and despite Conley & Dinvincenzo struggling.

Knicks are built to be a better fit for KAT tho so I'm not surprised he's playing better there as far as his offense goes, but I'm still not going to trust him come Playoff time before he proves it. Look at his first 3 games against Dallas to open up that WCF and you see why he got moved. He's played below his RS numbers every year in the POs.
Boy I have bad news for you about Randle's playoff performances.

[Xiao Yao You]

In the mix for what? Winning one playoff series? Sure, if they make it there.

Only thing that has kept him out is tanking and injuries to himself. Odds are great. Close to the finals last year. No reason to think they wont be in the mix. Still have their top 2 players

[ImKobe]

Boy I have bad news for you about Randle's playoff performances.

I know, but at least he only has 2 years on his contract. Wolves made the trade because they thought Dinvincenzo could be an impact player for them with his shooting ability, hasn't been the case thus far. All in all should have been a decent lateral move for Minnesota with it making their financial situation a bit easier to deal with.

[Kblaze8855]

In the mix for what? Winning one playoff series? Sure, if they make it there.


When winning 3 playoff series in 10 years is always being “In the mix” the standard isn’t very high.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Part of the problem is that the Wolves play a basic my turn/your turn offense. Divincenzo isn't as important as he was in New York because instead of having an active, aggressive role where he is running off screens, cutting and doing other things to get open and be useful the Wolves just hand the ball to Edwards or Randle and everyone else is supposed to space the floor. Randle is a bit of a black hole and Edwards is young. This means that Randle often isn't passing it until he has convinced himself that he can't score and Edwards being a young superstar may have a similar mentality but with a higher talent level to justify it and not reading the floor as well as he will in the future when he has some more experience. Their teammates are just living off of their scraps. They will be generally less effective and it's likely not the most engaging style for them to play in either.

Towns doesn't defend as well as you would like a big to defend but if you're going to play this kind of ISO-heavy offense he's better for it simply because he's a better scorer than Randle.

[Xiao Yao You]

When winning 3 playoff series in 10 years is always being “In the mix” the standard isn’t very high.

While carrying bad teams. Lottery team before gobert. Lottery team since gobert. While minny had one of the top two teams in their history. Tough time to be a troll

[Kblaze8855]

The Jazz won 43 games before he got there…didn’t win that many again till his 4th season…where they won a playoff series he played 5 of 7 games in including winning a game 7 he played 13 minutes of. 10 years 3 playoff series wins isn’t being “In the mix” by any standard. It’s just being an nba team. It’s the exact same playoff success as the 2013-2022 Washington Wizards. It’s being the Pacers. Hell I think it’s less than the pacers. They probably made the ecf twice not even counting last year. It’s just…a franchise existing. Straight middle of the road nothingness.

[tpols]

He is soft and he sucks when it matters most in the POs. Knicks right now at least aren't doing better than they were last year, their defense has had issues just like Minnesota and KAT is one of the worst defenders in the league. Wolves are basically where they were on offense last year despite trading KAT and despite Conley & Dinvincenzo struggling.

Knicks are built to be a better fit for KAT tho so I'm not surprised he's playing better there as far as his offense goes, but I'm still not going to trust him come Playoff time before he proves it. Look at his first 3 games against Dallas to open up that WCF and you see why he got moved. He's played below his RS numbers every year in the POs.

The Wolves made the WCFs last year and beat the defending champs with KAT averaging better production than prime peak Pau.

He was fine in the playoffs. Gobert was the one who shit the bed there. It's just funny KAT got treated as the scapegoat.

We all see how that's working out right now for Minnesota.

[Kblaze8855]

What is saying more productive than Pau even supposed to mean? He did better than like 18/10 or so? People nobody recognize average that and better now. Those numbers don’t translate with the higher pace and play style differences. Just mentioning some previous eras guy who did such and such numbers? Jalen Johnson does 20/10/5 right now. Doesnt make him Bullets Webber.

We are slowly gonna just have to stop referencing old players numbers like people stopped comparing peoples numbers to the 60s.

By todays standards I don’t think 18/10 automatically means you were doing a lot out there. When your teams does 115 a game it’s the equivalent of being Tim Thomas in 2004. It’s less than Donyell Marshall or Matt Harpring by percentage of teams points.

Im not saying it means you played poorly. I’m just saying…we should probably stop using 20 years ago production as a standard to measure against. Myself as well.

[tpols]

I used that reference to say a 20/10 championship second option isn't worth throwing away. Since I was speaking to a Laker fan whose familiar with Pau. Theyre both kind of soft, but KAT has actually peaked way higher than Pau.

The only problem was Ant ain't Kobe. If he was Minny would've been in the Finals and had a 30-40% chance at beating Boston.

Wasn't KATs fault though last year.

[Kblaze8855]

Peaked higher in the way Demarcus Cousins peaked higher than *insert most of the hall of fame*? Sure. Not so much in the making a basketball team work kinda way. That said I’m not sure what they would make Pau now. Something like Sabonis maybe.

[tpols]

Thats... an absolutely ridiculous reach. Cousins is a knucklehead of epic proportions and never produced anything for a winning playoff team. Your comparison here is beyond absurd.

[ShawkFactory]

Thats... an absolutely ridiculous reach. Cousins is a knucklehead of epic proportions and never produced anything for a winning playoff team. Your comparison here is beyond absurd.

Why is it that absurd? Before last year Towns had played in exactly 3 playoff series in 8 seasons..losing all 3.

I don’t think anyone is saying that they’re the same player, but the point remains. Pretty regular season numbers but often losing basketball doesn’t necessarily mean someone actually peaked higher than another because of said numbers.

[tpols]

Why is it that absurd? Before last year Towns had played in exactly 3 playoff series in 8 seasons..losing all 3.

I don’t think anyone is saying that they’re the same player, but the point remains. Pretty regular season numbers but often losing basketball doesn’t necessarily mean someone actually peaked higher than another because of said numbers.


It's an absurd comparison because Demarcus Cousins has literally never played at an All Star level in the playoffs a single time and he's a total bone head and chemistry killer in a way KAT isn't.

As far as my intial comparison goes in that discussion, KAT may be soft... just like Pau was sometimes...but they both can give you 20+/10+ with no locker room or on court cancerous behavior.

Comparing KAT to Cousins just makes... no sense. There's no achievable angle where it does.

[ShawkFactory]

It's an absurd comparison because Demarcus Cousins has literally never played at an All Star level in the playoffs a single time and he's a total bone head and chemistry killer in a way KAT isn't.

As far as my intial comparison goes in that discussion, KAT may be soft... just like Pau was sometimes...but they both can give you 20+/10+ with no locker room or on court cancerous behavior.

Comparing KAT to Cousins just makes... no sense. There's no achievable angle where it does.

KAT has absolutely made bone-headed decisions on-court in his career. He's the king of the stupid foul and momentum swinging negative plays. He's not a cancer per se, but he certainly has the reputation of fvcking up when it counts.

[tpols]

Can't really recall a time where KAT did something retarded or acted out. I'm sure he has at some point. Everybody has. But he's definitely not been known for it. Saying hes "the king of that" is wildly off base.

Guy is pretty intelligent and level headed. Went to High School like 25 minutes from where I live so I've known of him for a long while.

[tontoz]

Can't really recall a time where KAT did something retarded or acted out. I'm sure he has at some point. Everybody has. But he's definitely not been known for it. Saying hes "the king of that" is wildly off base.

Guy is pretty intelligent and level headed. Went to High School like 25 minutes from where I live so I've known of him for a long while.

He was definitely known for bone headed plays in the playoffs. He was more under control this past playoffs but in prior years he looked like he'd lost his mind at times. He would commit blatant offensive fouls and then start screaming as if he got shot when the fouls were called. I would be like:wtf:

[Xiao Yao You]

The Jazz won 43 games before he got there…didn’t win that many again till his 4th season…where they won a playoff series he played 5 of 7 games in including winning a game 7 he played 13 minutes of. 10 years 3 playoff series wins isn’t being “In the mix” by any standard. It’s just being an nba team. It’s the exact same playoff success as the 2013-2022 Washington Wizards. It’s being the Pacers. Hell I think it’s less than the pacers. They probably made the ecf twice not even counting last year. It’s just…a franchise existing. Straight middle of the road nothingness.

They were tanking when he emerged. Had lost 8 in a row. As bad as any team in the league. 6th best record after putting him in starting line up. Continued to try tanking despite that finish. His injury only thing that stopped them despite that. Finally put a team around him and he stays healthy and they make the playoffs and pull an upset. Their 2nd best player leaves and hes hurt again. Closer to top pick in draft than playoffs when he comes back to get them the 5th seed again and another upset. With him one of top yeams in league. Without him one of the worst. At least get the facts straight troll. I know its tough for ya

[Xiao Yao You]

The Wolves made the WCFs last year and beat the defending champs with KAT averaging better production than prime peak Pau.

He was fine in the playoffs. Gobert was the one who shit the bed there. It's just funny KAT got treated as the scapegoat.

We all see how that's working out right now for Minnesota.

Gobert was their best player against mavs after beating the defending champs and favorites. Another in the long line of playoff upsets for the always overachieving govert

[Xiao Yao You]

I used that reference to say a 20/10 championship second option isn't worth throwing away. Since I was speaking to a Laker fan whose familiar with Pau. Theyre both kind of soft, but KAT has actually peaked way higher than Pau.

The only problem was Ant ain't Kobe. If he was Minny would've been in the Finals and had a 30-40% chance at beating Boston.

Wasn't KATs fault though last year.

Kat isnt gasol. Either one :facepalm

[tpols]

Gobert was their best player against mavs after beating the defending champs and favorites. Another in the long line of playoff upsets for the always overachieving govert


:biggums:

Luka had your boy looking like he was slipping on a banana peel. Looney tunes style. I half expected a piano to fall out of the sky. :lol

You don't think KAT is a good player?

[ShawkFactory]

I still don’t take enough time to appreciate that there’s a Rudy Gobert Stan on this forum :lol

[Real Men Wear Green]

It occurs to me that I haven't been giving Edwards conference final run as much credit as it deserves. The second and third best players on his team were both bigs with a massive flaw (KAT doesn't defend, Gobert has no offensive skills). I'm not sure how much extra credit that deserves but it's significant.

[RRR3]

I still don’t take enough time to appreciate that there’s a Rudy Gobert Stan on this forum :lol
I think the funniest part of this is that he thinks kblaze is a troll.

[Xiao Yao You]

:biggums:

Luka had your boy looking like he was slipping on a banana peel. Looney tunes style. I half expected a piano to fall out of the sky. :lol

You don't think KAT is a good player?

I like kat. Hes certainly never had the impact of gobert.

[Xiao Yao You]

Cant quit me

[Xiao Yao You]

It occurs to me that I haven't been giving Edwards conference final run as much credit as it deserves. The second and third best players on his team were both bigs with a massive flaw (KAT doesn't defend, Gobert has no offensive skills). I'm not sure how much extra credit that deserves but it's significant.

Gobert has carried much worse teams so i wouldnt give ant too much credit for winning with a winner by his side

[Jasper]

They are not looking good without him. Randle is a nice player but he's certainly not as good as KAT and I think KAT fits much better with Gobert and Edwards. I know they threw in Divincenzo too but he's been absolutely dreadful.

I am glad they got rid of Kat ... I actually think he was a locker room bumm..

I remember in the playoffs .. he looked like he quit , and said in an interview he was glad to end the season , so he could vacation;

[Manny98]

Gobert has carried much worse teams so i wouldnt give ant too much credit for winning with a winner by his side

What has Gobert won?

[ILLsmak]

I like kat. Hes certainly never had the impact of gobert.

I love it.

-Smak

[Xiao Yao You]

It’s also worth noting that Reid, who has a $15 million player option for next season, has supporters in Minnesota’s front office who believe he could thrive with more minutes after winning the Sixth Man of the Year award last season. For context, Reid has averaged 19.8 points and 8.5 rebounds when he’s played 30-39 minutes in 24 career games. – via *********

another reason they got rid of kat. A troll favorite not to mention the great Garza!

[Xiao Yao You]

Jon Krawczysnski: Julius Randle: “Me personally, knowing this thing will turn around is because it’s not like we’re getting blown out. We got a whole new group trying to figure things out, figure each other out, and we’re in every game. We just gotta start coming out on the other side.” – via x.com

[999Guy]

Trading KAT should've been done in 2022. Before that even. It's who they got for him that's the problem.

KAT is a horrible defender who cannot play near his best as a PF next to a legit center offensively. He was terrible in the WCF and the 4th best big in the series.

They would've been better off getting a batch of guys like Mikal Bridges around the league as opposed to one Julius Randle.

BTW, Minnesota has fallen off entirely on defense this year. Not offense.

[Xiao Yao You]

Trading KAT should've been done in 2022. Before that even. It's who they got for him that's the problem.

KAT is a horrible defender who cannot play near his best as a PF next to a legit center offensively. He was terrible in the WCF and the 4th best big in the series.

They would've been better off getting a batch of guys like Mikal Bridges around the league as opposed to one Julius Randle.

BTW, Minnesota has fallen off entirely on defense this year. Not offense.

They got 2 players for towns

[Xiao Yao You]

Christopher Hine: Donte DiVincenzo on the defense: “We’re building that trust factor. I mean, Rudy’s been, excuse my language, ****ing amazing. He has been. Knowing that when he’s going, we got his back, and then we we’re rotating out of it, and we’re really good when we’re flying around.” – via Twitter ChristopherHine

tough bein a troll!

[Manny98]

11th seed!

[Xiao Yao You]

5 games out of top seed. Its very early. Never to early to be a troll though

[Xiao Yao You]

“You guys can talk about whatever you want to talk about. Fitting in, shots, turnovers, whatever you want to talk about,” DiVincenzo said. “We win games. Nobody talks. So, that’s our focus, staying together, going through these adversities together. Going out and start stacking wins.” – via New York Times
long year for the trolls

[Xiao Yao You]

Chris Hine: Anthony Edwards, with Julius Randle sitting next to him: “Naz and Julius is ****in’ playing defense. You know, I’ve never see [Julius] play defense before. That’s ****ing incredible, and he’s right here, put the camera on him. He be guarding his ass off.” (Randle was laughing) – via Bluesky