Lebron is -111 for the 2024-2025 season so far.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/2025-plus-minus-lebron

https://ibb.co/4g522cf
https://i.ibb.co/gFBddG7/Screenshot-2024-12-03-at-16-17-17-2025-Plus-Minus-Lebron-Stat-Muse.png
https://ibb.co/4g522cf
(https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/2025-plus-minus-lebron)

[Shaquille O'Neal]

https://i.ibb.co/gRWsDP0/Screenshot-2024-12-03-at-16-20-23-NBA-Finals-Plus-Minus-Lebron-Stat-Muse.png

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Stat muse is fun.

https://i.ibb.co/Cv8NvYK/Screenshot-2024-12-03-at-16-21-38-NBA-Finals-Plus-Minus-Michael-Jordan-Stat-Muse.png

[Shaquille O'Neal]

https://i.ibb.co/Lt002Bh/Screenshot-2024-12-03-at-16-23-07-NBA-Finals-Plus-Minus-Kobe-Bryant-Stat-Muse.png

[Shaquille O'Neal]

https://i.ibb.co/9pdJ3vw/Screenshot-2024-12-03-at-16-24-28-NBA-Finals-Plus-Minus-Steph-Curry-Stat-Muse.png

[Shaquille O'Neal]

https://i.ibb.co/C1vPknJ/Screenshot-2024-12-03-at-16-25-53-NBA-Finals-Plus-Minus-Tim-Duncan-Stat-Muse.png

[Shaquille O'Neal]

https://i.ibb.co/68WHSx2/Screenshot-2024-12-03-at-16-27-01-NBA-Finals-Plus-Minus-Shaquille-O-neal-Stat-Muse.png

[hold this L]

Unfortunately, Steph and Lebron are looking washed this season.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I don't disagree, but the stats certainly do. On the opposite side of the fake King.

https://i.ibb.co/YQvy2ZF/Screenshot-2024-12-03-at-16-59-39-2025-Plus-Minus-Steph-Curry-Stat-Muse.png

[hold this L]

I don't disagree, but the stats certainly do. On the opposite side of the fake King.

https://i.ibb.co/YQvy2ZF/Screenshot-2024-12-03-at-16-59-39-2025-Plus-Minus-Steph-Curry-Stat-Muse.png
Positive things always happen when Steph is on the court, but his offensive output has fallen off a cliff this season. Steph's fear factor is an aspect that IMO no NBA has ever emulated to that level, and that's mostly gone this entire season. Very passive play, he looks very old this season.

[Full Court]

He's also got the worst on/off of his team. It's something like -16, and that was before the blowout yesterday against the Wolves.

Now one of you Bronie fluffers go ahead and try to tell us he's not a net negative. I dare you.

[StrongLurk]

He hasn't been this bad in a long time, maybe since his very early Cavs days. Even out of his prime the last few years, he's been a top 10 player in the league. He even just won Olympic MVP, but maybe he hasn't quite recovered from all of it. Stamina is the first thing to go.

Lebron still has the second best plus-minus for a career since it's been tracked so...

[tontoz]

Positive things always happen when Steph is on the court, but his offensive output has fallen off a cliff this season. Steph's fear factor is an aspect that IMO no NBA has ever emulated to that level, and that's mostly gone this entire season. Very passive play, he looks very old this season.


Stephs production hasn't fallen off that much he is just playing fewer minutes. Per 36 he's averaging 27.1 pts with a 64% TS.

[hold this L]

Stephs production hasn't fallen off that much he is just playing fewer minutes. Per 36 he's averaging 27.1 pts with a 64% TS.

I like stats, but I'm going on eye test. He's not addingt the level of fear he adds on teams, the intangible aspect that changes the shape of games that maybe doesn't show on the stats sheet. He's been super passive in critical moments the team needed him to be aggressive. It doesn't hurt that Kerr loves running everything through role players accomplishing his wet fantasies from when he was a player himself.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

He even just won Olympic MVP, but

The one that Steph earned you mean? The one that it was revealed the voting starting before the final and penultimate game? Oh, right. Steph's 2024 Olympic MVP. He was outscored in the final 2 games by a large margin AND the entire Olympic run by Steph. Or at least that was the "argument" for the CUP MVP last year...right? "Lebron scored more in the overall tourney" despite AD dropping a monster 40/20 final game to LeFraud's 15.
When the money is pushed to the center of the table, Lebron takes a back seat to someone else. Always has, always will. This is why he's out of my top 12, and below Kobe all-time.

[StrongLurk]

The one that Steph earned you mean? The one that it was revealed the voting starting before the final and penultimate game? Oh, right. Steph's 2024 Olympic MVP. He was outscored in the final 2 games by a large margin AND the entire Olympic run by Steph. Or at least that was the "argument" for the CUP MVP last year...right? "Lebron scored more in the overall tourney" despite AD dropping a monster 40/20 final game to LeFraud's 15.
When the money is pushed to the center of the table, Lebron takes a back seat to someone else. Always has, always will. This is why he's out of my top 12, and below Kobe all-time.

All of those are tournament MVPS which factor all games...so yeah Lebron deserved both and won both.

Go cry more about the rules.

[ArbitraryWater]

You should check out what he is for his career bro

[tpols]

https://i.ibb.co/C1vPknJ/Screenshot-2024-12-03-at-16-25-53-NBA-Finals-Plus-Minus-Tim-Duncan-Stat-Muse.png

So in terms of impact at the highest levels it goes:

Duncan
Curry

*huge gap*

MJ
Kobe
Shaq

*huge gap*

Lebron

For that metric. I know the Big 3 Heat had a negative +/-differential in the Finals.

[SouBeachTalents]

So in terms of impact at the highest levels it goes:

Duncan
Curry

*huge gap*

MJ
Kobe
Shaq

*huge gap*

Lebron

For that metric. I know the Big 3 Heat had a negative +/-differential in the Finals.
Remember when you were arguing literally a couple of days ago that LeBron was as good as he's ever been :lol

[tpols]

Remember when you were arguing literally a couple of days ago that LeBron was as good as he's ever been :lol

I said what Jokic did to him the past 3 years he had produced just like in his prime. And he did. Just because Lebron looks bad the past month doesn't disqualify all the prior time.

The guy is clearly burnt out from playing full seasons and then a full Olympic tour where he played some of the heaviest time.

[Walk on Water]

All of those are tournament MVPS which factor all games...so yeah Lebron deserved both and won both.

Go cry more about the rules.


Curry was the greatest when it actually mattered. You know that. Lebron sucks now btw. Lol, he sucks he sucks he sucks. :applause:

Lebron sucks dude.