DeMar DeRozan currently has 24078 career points. That's more than Barkley and Wade

[RRR3]

And he's still scoring a lot (22.5 PPG so far this year). At age 35, he could fall off a clip at any moment, but the end of the year he could pass Reggie Miller and wind up 25th in NBA history. Depending on how good his longevity continues to be, he actually has a chance to reach the top 10...which is pretty crazy for a player as (relatively) lowly regarded as DeRozan. I'm not that high on DeRozan as a player but as he continues to climb on this list, I do wonder what kind of conversations are going to be had.

[L.Kizzle]

And he's still scoring a lot (22.5 PPG so far this year). At age 35, he could fall off a clip at any moment, but the end of the year he could pass Reggie Miller and wind up 25th in NBA history. Depending on how good his longevity continues to be, he actually has a chance to reach the top 10...which is pretty crazy for a player as (relatively) lowly regarded as DeRozan. I'm not that high on DeRozan as a player but as he continues to climb on this list, I do wonder what kind of conversations are going to be had.

He's better than Reggie Miller, but people are not ready for that conversation. He's a future Hall of Famer and has avg 20+ points for 12 straight seasons.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I certainly won't argue against Derozan making the Hall but if I was to pick someone to be the next "greatest player not to make the Hall of Fame" it would be him. The"fame" part of that hurts his argument; I wonder how many non-basketball fans know who he is. The bad performances he had alongside Lowry as a Raptor also hurt and I don't think at the age of 35 he has enough chances to balance that out with great playoff runs left. I expect the narrative to be his problem even though numbers may say he should be in.

[L.Kizzle]

I certainly won't argue against Derozan making the Hall but if I was to pick someone to be the next "greatest player not to make the Hall of Fame" it would be him. The"fame" part of that hurts his argument; I wonder how many non-basketball fans know who he is. The bad performances he had alongside Lowry as a Raptor also hurt and I don't think at the age of 35 he has enough chances to balance that out with great playoff runs left. I expect the narrative to be his problem even though numbers may say he should be in.
Unless he decides to retire today (would be #30 on all time scoring list) he's gonna end up right outside the top 10. Hell if he plays two more seasons hovering around 20 ppg, he will be inside the top 15. He's a lock.

[tpols]

He's better than Reggie Miller, but people are not ready for that conversation. He's a future Hall of Famer and has avg 20+ points for 12 straight seasons.


Reggies playoff productions and performancès blow derozans out of the water. Demar is basically a regular season player. I wanted him to win and do well but man he used crap the bed with Toronto in the post season.

[Carbine]

He's not better than Reggie relative to his era. It's not a debate.

[Hey Yo]

Reggies playoff productions and performancès blow derozans out of the water. Demar is basically a regular season player. I wanted him to win and do well but man he used crap the bed with Toronto in the post season.
You have to consider Reggie's competition... meh

[SouBeachTalents]

DeRozan is the Harden/Embiid of all-stars, his level of play drops off in the postseason virtually every season, and you could argue his are even more substantial than those two. Since 2014, his first all-star season, his efficiency goes from 56TS% in the regular season to 50%TS in the playoffs, and 16 years in the league, he has like one legitimately good playoff series to his name. Lowry certainly stunk it up in the playoffs too, but DeRozan was the true Trash Bro.

[RRR3]

DeRozan is the Harden/Embiid of all-stars, his level of play drops off in the postseason virtually every season, and you could argue his are even more substantial than those two. Since 2014, his first all-star season, his efficiency goes from 56TS% in the regular season to 50%TS in the playoffs, and 16 years in the league, he has like one legitimately good playoff series to his name. Lowry certainly stunk it up in the playoffs too, but DeRozan was the true Trash Bro.
Lowry’s playoff career has plenty of highs tho, DeRozan’s is just all lows. But I think we place too much emphasis on this for non tier 1 guys, even Karl Malone was a pretty atrocious playoff performer (relative to his regular season standards) and he’s considered top 20. DeRozan is going to be in the HOF easily, playoff embarrassments or not.

[Phoenix]

He's had a solid, consistent career. He was never a top 10 or even top 15 player, but top 20ish off the top of my head during his Raptors heyday. He's also, generally speaking, played 70 or more games most years so yeah, its not surprising he's got those numbers. Wade's injuries, since his name was brought up, and deference to Lebron after 2012 lowered the trajectory of what his scoring totals could have been otherwise. Same for Barkley who missed a lot of time after 94 and settled into a third option type after 97.

Demar's kind of a Mitch Richmond type, just had a solid, consistent career where he was at best a 2nd tier star but a HOFer nevertheless.

[L.Kizzle]

He's had a solid, consistent career. He was never a top 10 or even top 15 player, but top 20ish off the top of my head during his Raptors heyday. He's also, generally speaking, played 70 or more games most years so yeah, its not surprising he's got those numbers. Wade's injuries, since his name was brought up, and deference to Lebron after 2012 lowered the trajectory of what his scoring totals could have been otherwise. Same for Barkley who missed a lot of time after 94 and settled into a third option type after 97.

Demar's kind of a Mitch Richmond type, just had a solid, consistent career where he was at best a 2nd tier star but a HOFer nevertheless.
DeMar was all NBA 2nd team a few times. So, he was closer to top 10 than to top 20. And this isn't a DeAndre Jordan All-NBA selection either.

[RRR3]

DeMar was all NBA 2nd team a few times. So, he was closer to top 10 than to top 20. And this isn't a DeAndre Jordan All-NBA selection either.
Nah. He was never better than Lowry, he just got credit cuz he scored more. He’s never been anywhere near top 10.

[ralph_i_el]

You have to consider Reggie's competition... meh

Yeah, no good shooting guards in the era:oldlol:

[dankok8]

Demar will make the HOF and is a likable guy but he's nowhere near Reggie to be honest. There's just a huge gap in playoff performance.

[Phoenix]

DeMar was all NBA 2nd team a few times. So, he was closer to top 10 than to top 20. And this isn't a DeAndre Jordan All-NBA selection either.

That doesn't necessarily mean he was top 10. That just means within the context of that season(s) the voters thought he was warranted a spot amongst the top 4 guards, but that doesn't mean there may not have been players on the third team at the forward or center spot who may be better. Case in point, in 18 when he made 2nd team, Steph only played 51 games and Jimmy Butler 59. Both are better than Deron but the missed games likely played a big role in why Deron got 2nd team. For his second 2nd team selection in 2022, Lebron James was third team. Was he better than Lebron? Nope. Better than Chris Paul? I don't think so. Trae Young averaging 28/10 on 60% TS? Tough call. Fringe top 15 maybe one or two seasons, never seriously close to top 10, and mostly more top 20ish.

[RRR3]

That doesn't necessarily mean he was top 10. That just means within the context of that season(s) the voters thought he was warranted a spot amongst the top 4 guards, but that doesn't mean there may not have been players on the third team at the forward or center spot who may be better. Case in point, in 18 when he made 2nd team, Steph only played 51 games and Jimmy Butler 59. Both are better than Deron but the missed games likely played a big role in why Deron got 2nd team. For his second 2nd team selection in 2022, Lebron James was third team. Was he better than Lebron? Nope. Better than Chris Paul? I don't think so. Trae Young averaging 28/10 on 60% TS? Tough call. Fringe top 15 maybe one or two seasons, never seriously close to top 10, and mostly more top 20ish.
Deron?

[John8204]

He's better than Reggie Miller, but people are not ready for that conversation. He's a future Hall of Famer and has avg 20+ points for 12 straight seasons.

Reggie made the conference/NBA finals six times in a small market team that maybe did it once before/after. 25K is a huge benchmark, and Demar is going to hit 30 which puts him in the hall but he'll never be considered a top 10 SG or mentioned 30 years from now like Reggie is. Reggie has a legacy...Demar is going to be a HOFer and so might Bradley Beal but those are going to be lowtier HOF guys.

[John8204]

You have to consider Reggie's competition... meh

Miami, Orlando, Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, and New Jersey weren't good....well that's news to me

[SouBeachTalents]

Deron?
You know what he meant.

[L.Kizzle]

Nah. He was never better than Lowry, he just got credit cuz he scored more. He’s never been anywhere near top 10.
I did say he was closer to 10 than 20. I don't think he was ever top 10, but his All-NBA selections are not DeAndre Jordan types.

[Phoenix]

Deron?

:oldlol: Demar, my bad

[L.Kizzle]

Reggie made the conference/NBA finals six times in a small market team that maybe did it once before/after. 25K is a huge benchmark, and Demar is going to hit 30 which puts him in the hall but he'll never be considered a top 10 SG or mentioned 30 years from now like Reggie is. Reggie has a legacy...Demar is going to be a HOFer and so might Bradley Beal but those are going to be lowtier HOF guys.

Bradley Beal won't sniff the Hall of Fame. That's like saying Steve Francis is a Hall of Famer.

[RRR3]

Bradley Beal won't sniff the Hall of Fame. That's like saying Steve Francis is a Hall of Famer.
If he can keep his career PPG above 20 before he retires, he'll certainly be fairly likely to go in. Michael Cooper is a HOfer. Pretty much everyone who played for as long as Beal has who averages 20+ was a lock. Except John Drew, World. B Free and Marques Johnson, but Johnson should be in anyways.

[L.Kizzle]

If he can keep his career PPG above 20 before he retires, he'll certainly be fairly likely to go in. Michael Cooper is a HOfer. Pretty much everyone who played for as long as Beal has who averages 20+ was a lock. Except John Drew, World. B Free and Marques Johnson, but Johnson should be in anyways.

A few people mentioned DeMar was more so a top 20ish player. Well, Beal was never better than DeMar and has less accolades at everything. He was never better than his backcourt mate John Wall and no one looks at him as a HOFer.

[John8204]

Bradley Beal won't sniff the Hall of Fame. That's like saying Steve Francis is a Hall of Famer.

He's 31 at 16K Francis retired at 10K...World B Free is the only 30PPG player not in the HOF and he finished his career with 17K.

It's going to be really hard to blame Beal for not winning with Durant, Wall, and Westbrook based on y'know all the other guys that couldn't win with Wall, Durant, and Westbrook.

[90sgoat]

Very unimpressive career, sort of like Mitch Ritchmond.

Too good to be a role player, nowhere near good enough to be a top dog.

[L.Kizzle]

Very unimpressive career, sort of like Mitch Ritchmond.

Too good to be a role player, nowhere near good enough to be a top dog.
He took his team to the conference finals what, twice as the top dog. Pretty good to me.

[90sgoat]

He took his team to the conference finals what, twice as the top dog. Pretty good to me.

True, but in a very weak conference.

I guess he is a Rip Hamilton player, poor mans Reggie Miller, because he couldn't hit 3s.

[ArbitraryWater]

leBron used to beat this guy UP.

[Kblaze8855]

On the same floor you wouldn’t notice any significant difference between Reggie and Demar people just don’t choose to look at it that way. Somewhere in the hierarchy of players there comes a point when it stops being how good you are and the question is how great you are with greatness being a far more abstract concept. Reggie is way greater than Demar but dropped into 1996 I suspect Demar is considered better at basketball. But at the same time Reggie in the freedom of movement era would be an extension level event kinda threat.

Id take Reggie for today. Tossup back then. Demar is definitely the same level of a number of guys considered a peer or better than Reggie. The truth of that just gets more and more ignored as it fades from memory.

[Carbine]

On the same floor you wouldn’t notice any significant difference between Reggie and Demar people just don’t choose to look at it that way. Somewhere in the hierarchy of players there comes a point when it stops being how good you are and the question is how great you are with greatness being a far more abstract concept. Reggie is way greater than Demar but dropped into 1996 I suspect Demar is considered better at basketball. But at the same time Reggie in the freedom of movement era would be an extension level event kinda threat.

Id take Reggie for today. Tossup back then. Demar is definitely the same level of a number of guys considered a peer or better than Reggie. The truth of that just gets more and more ignored as it fades from memory.

Your downplaying of Reggie is well documented so this take is no surprise to anyone. Reggie is greater and also better at basketball when it comes to winning basketball. His legacy is largely based on where the big dogs play aka the playoffs whereas Demars reputation is the complete opposite. Their "games" are a reflection of this point.

[L.Kizzle]

Your downplaying of Reggie is well documented so this take is no surprise to anyone. Reggie is greater and also better at basketball when it comes to winning basketball. His legacy is largely based on where the big dogs play aka the playoffs whereas Demars reputation is the complete opposite. Their "games" are a reflection of this point.
Reg had 2 good playoff series vs the Knicks and now all of a sudden he's Jerry West? He's not even a Sam Jones level playoff performer.

[Kblaze8855]

Your downplaying of Reggie is well documented so this take is no surprise to anyone. Reggie is greater and also better at basketball when it comes to winning basketball. His legacy is largely based on where the big dogs play aka the playoffs whereas Demars reputation is the complete opposite. Their "games" are a reflection of this point.


of course its no surprise. I think what I thought watching it live and what the other people watching it live thought. You think what you have been conditioned to think based on TV specials about games you didn’t see. I’m never gonna have the opinion you do because mine is based on knowing what I’m talking about And yours is based on reputation and watching a few games on YouTube.

You’re one of those pseudo serious fans who says a lot of things about winning and playoffs and focuses so hard on it you end up staying in the shallow end and ignoring how winning actually happens.

It’s kinda like when you were trying to explain Fisher being better for winning a championship than a couple All-Star point guards. It’s really the most cliché of conversations about winners versus talent That is made by people trying to sound smart.

It’s incredibly easy and impressive to the simple minded to do a whole “Yea but in the bright lights of the playoffs….” Monologue. But in truth, somebody like Fisher is only more useful than a low end All-Star point because his relative lack of talent doesn’t justify taking touches from the kind of legend you need to contend in the first place. Its usefulness born Of a talent deficiency. Like guys who shoot 65% because they are bad shot makers. They shoot a higher percentage because they aren’t good enough to be given tougher shots.

A lot of things just require thinking one step past the typical “I’m a smart fan.” answer.

But people don’t do it.

Not generally.

and I’m fine with that. I don’t need you to agree with me because I know for a fact, I know more than you do about this subject. I’ve grown out of the need to convince the ignorant about everything. I don’t know how my mom managed to be a teacher for 40 years. It’s such a chore when the people don’t care about the subject matter the way you do.

I’d rather go work on my rewatch of the Americans. I watched the first several seasons when it was airing, but I can never figure out where I stopped so I’m just starting from scratch. Let me go do that. I’ll read whatever you have to say in the morning.

You have a nice night.

[Phoenix]

of course its no surprise. I think what I thought watching it live and what the other people watching it live thought. You think what you have been conditioned to think based on TV specials about games you didn’t see. I’m never gonna have the opinion you do because mine is based on knowing what I’m talking about And yours is based on reputation and watching a few games on YouTube.

You’re one of those pseudo serious fans who says a lot of things about winning and playoffs and focuses so hard on it you end up staying in the shallow end and ignoring how winning actually happens.

It’s kinda like when you were trying to explain Fisher being better for winning a championship than a couple All-Star point guards. It’s really the most cliché of conversations about winners versus talent That is made by people trying to sound smart.

It’s incredibly easy and impressive to the simple minded to do a whole “Yea but in the bright lights of the playoffs….” Monologue. But in truth, somebody like Fisher is only more useful than a low end All-Star point because his relative lack of talent doesn’t justify taking touches from the kind of legend you need to contend in the first place. Its usefulness born Of a talent deficiency. Like guys who shoot 65% because they are bad shot makers. They shoot a higher percentage because they aren’t good enough to be given tougher shots.

A lot of things just require thinking one step past the typical “I’m a smart fan.” answer.

But people don’t do it.

Not generally.

and I’m fine with that. I don’t need you to agree with me because I know for a fact, I know more than you do about this subject. I’ve grown out of the need to convince the ignorant about everything. I don’t know how my mom managed to be a teacher for 40 years. It’s such a chore when the people don’t care about the subject matter the way you do.

I’d rather go work on my rewatch of the Americans. I watched the first several seasons when it was airing, but I can never figure out where I stopped so I’m just starting from scratch. Let me go do that. I’ll read whatever you have to say in the morning.

You have a nice night.

https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExYnBhcWkwZWR6ZzRxa3M5ZTJib3lrZDl wYXFqZmthaDd5azdteWpnaSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/twxoPjMpsijwPFBVqs/giphy.gif

[L.Kizzle]

DeMar DeRozan or Joe Johnson. Who you taking?

[tpols]

DeMar DeRozan or Joe Johnson. Who you taking?


Joe Johnson was better.

The thing about derozan is he relies on favorable calls in the regular season that he doesn't get in the playoffs. He's kind of like... Harden. The refs generally swallow the whistle more in the playoffs unless you're a celebrity player.

Joe Johnson could meticulously break you down and ice you without foul baiting. It's wierd how some guys can be such skilled zoned in scorers like he was. Not even beating guys with athleticism... just playing chess in slow motion on them.

[ralph_i_el]

I think DeRozan is a testament to how playstyle impacts longevity. Guys that can score a bunch on 0-1-2 dribbles, and don't take a lot of hard falls going to the rim, are going to have longer primes.

[HoopsNY]

Reggies playoff productions and performancès blow derozans out of the water. Demar is basically a regular season player. I wanted him to win and do well but man he used crap the bed with Toronto in the post season.

Agree with this. DeRozan puts up 50% TS% in the playoffs. Prime Reggie was something like 60% with great performances over a decade. DeRozan also benefits significantly by this mickey mouse era of rule changes, lack of defense, playing style, and just do whatever the hell you want kinda play.

[Street Hunger]

He seems like an underappreciated player but I have to remind myself exactly how far he's gone in the playoffs because I literally don't remember.

I always like his mid-range game because so many players have abandoned it

He's fun to watch play

[L.Kizzle]

DeMar just passed Patrick Ewing a few games ago and he'll reach 25,000 points before the month of March is over.

By the end of Next season, he'll pass Olajuwon who's right under 27,000. We're talking about a possible 30,000 point scorer here. Active players in front of him under 30,000. Steph Curry 25,000+,
Westbrook 26,000+, Harden 27,000+

[iamgine]

To me regular season Derozan, even in his absolute prime, was always a top 20-30 player. Never a top 15 player.

Meanwhile regular season Reggie Miller, was a top 10-15 player. Not to mention Reggie becomes a cold blooded killer in the playoff.

There's no comparison.

[L.Kizzle]

To me regular season Derozan, even in his absolute prime, was always a top 20-30 player. Never a top 15 player.

Meanwhile regular season Reggie Miller, was a top 10-15 player. Not to mention Reggie becomes a cold blooded killer in the playoff.

There's no comparison.
Reggie was no where near a top 10 player in the regular season. Glen Rice was better than Reggie in the regular season.

[iamgine]

Reggie was no where near a top 10 player in the regular season. Glen Rice was better than Reggie in the regular season.

10-15

[L.Kizzle]

10-15
Reggie first All-Star game was in 1990. Players better include:
Jordan
Magic
Bird
Isiah T
Barkley
Malone
Stockton
Mullin
Kevin Johnson
Mark Price
Hakeem
Clyde
Dunars
Wilkins
Ewing
Robinson

That's just 16
Didn't even include Dumars, McHale, Pippen, Rodman, Chambers and a few others.

[iamgine]

Reggie first All-Star game was in 1990. Players better include:
Jordan
Magic
Bird
Isiah T
Barkley
Malone
Stockton
Mullin
Kevin Johnson
Mark Price
Hakeem
Clyde
Dunars
Wilkins
Ewing
Robinson

That's just 16
Didn't even include Dumars, McHale, Pippen, Rodman, Chambers and a few others.

Who says anything about 1990?

[L.Kizzle]

Who says anything about 1990?

You said Reggie was a top 10-15 player in the regular season, thats one season where he wasn't. 9 more to go.

[L.Kizzle]

10-15
1995 - 15 players
Shaq; Penny; Pippen; Hill; Ewing; Zo; Hakeem; Barkley: Kemp: Sprewell; Stockton; Malone; Payton; Robinson; Drexler; Richmond

Didn't include Larry Johnson, Vin Baker and some others.

[iamgine]

It's ok if you disagree. Not like I will change mind.

[Reggie43]

Those are players of the same level but I bet a ton of you guys would take the one that plays better in the playoffs compared to the guy that legendarily underachieves even with the offense friendly rules.

Most fans always think the more skilled, talented and athletic player is automatically better but being smarter, tougher and more effective could beat those advantages and help your team win more games.

Derozan made the conference finals once, in a playoff run where he took 20 shots to score 21ppg while shooting 39% from the field scoring almost 3points less compared to the regular season.

Miller made the conference finals six times, 5 as his teams best player and making the finals once in a playoff run where he took 17 shots to score 24ppg while shooting 45% from the field scoring almost 6 points more compared to the regular season.

[Jasper]

derozan scores points when game is over in the 3rd qtr