Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane

[Im Still Ballin]

They really need to keep Russ in the starting lineup. I'm not sure what's going to happen when Aaron Gordon gets back.

[highwhey]

5 star thread

[Im Still Ballin]

Neither has played with an elite playmaker before. Sure, Russ played with LeBron but they got in the way of each other a lot.

I guess the details matter: LBJ and RW both thrive as playmakers on-ball with a live dribble in transition and as ball handlers in PnR actions. Jokic does those things but also all of the big man passing stuff from the post, elbow/hand-off action, and secondary actions/short roll.

Sure, LeBron can pass from the short roll, post, or hand-off action, but not like Nikola can. Makes Jokic a more natural fit when combined with his size, robust shooting, floater, and post-up game.

[Manny98]

Add Jokic to the list of stars playing the best basketball of their careers next to Westbrook

I really hope he gets a ring this year

[Full Court]

Only one star ever was not able to get to the playoff with Westbrook. Interesting.

[Kblaze8855]

Add Jokic to the list of stars playing the best basketball of their careers next to Westbrook

I really hope he gets a ring this year

In 3 years straight George had his best year, Harden averaged 34, and Beal averaged 31. Before that KD peaked at 32 and now Jokic is over 31.

Not what you’d expect by reputation. But other players have always loved him. Jokic asked for him.

Hes gotta have among the greatest discrepancies between peer and fan admiration in sports.

[tontoz]

PG was 3rd in the MVP race with Russ in spite of playing the last few weeks with shoulders that required surgery after the season.

[tpols]

There's no player archetype that Jokic wouldn't fit with.

[Im Still Ballin]

Denver's offense is currently 4th in the NBA at 118.4 ORtg and +5.3 rORtg. That's the best offense they've had in the Jokic era.

[Full Court]

Denver's offense is currently 4th in the NBA at 118.4 ORtg and +5.3 rORtg. That's the best offense they've had in the Jokic era.

Based on the eye test, their defense has dropped off noticeably from last year.

[ILLsmak]

In 3 years straight George had his best year, Harden averaged 34, and Beal averaged 31. Before that KD peaked at 32 and now Jokic is over 31.

Not what you’d expect by reputation. But other players have always loved him. Jokic asked for him.

Hes gotta have among the greatest discrepancies between peer and fan admiration in sports.

It’s likely inspiring to see wb going in all of the time. The issue with what you listed is none of those teams had a chance. When the game requires smart decision making opposed to raw energy, like deep in playoffs, I dunno how well wb shines. His stats might even look good, but he looked like ass to me. Maybe he’a more mature now. Bet not.

-Smak

[ILLsmak]

Denver's offense is currently 4th in the NBA at 118.4 ORtg and +5.3 rORtg. That's the best offense they've had in the Jokic era.

Lesse if they win 50 games.

-Smak

[Akeem34TheDream]

I've been told that Westbrook is one of the worst role players in NBA history. Maybe those people that said it had an agenda?

[Axe]

Denver's offense is currently 4th in the NBA at 118.4 ORtg and +5.3 rORtg. That's the best offense they've had in the Jokic era.
It seems picking him up has been good for them so far. The retard below you is a flaming homosexual btw.

[Kblaze8855]

It’s likely inspiring to see wb going in all of the time. The issue with what you listed is none of those teams had a chance. When the game requires smart decision making opposed to raw energy, like deep in playoffs, I dunno how well wb shines. His stats might even look good, but he looked like ass to me. Maybe he’a more mature now. Bet not.

-Smak

I don’t see George, KD, or Harden with rings on any team that didn’t win them without them and Jokic has one in ten years. Simple truth is most great players don’t win but not winning is only attributed to the style of a certain type.

You give John Stockton an mvp caliber always healthy and available running mate…an additional all star…a 6th man of the year…and a DPOY. They go out in the first round. There is no “They didn’t have a chance. Wonder if it’s the point guard?”. No matter how many awful playoff letdowns they have.

It just doesn’t feeeeeel like it could be because of that.

And it wasn’t.

But we aren’t really talking results. People who aren’t blamed have Westbrook like team results all the time to little criticism of how they play.

there’s really nothing to criticize in Kevin Durant’s game but he’s been in the league 17 years and only won anything Westbrook hasn’t when he was on a team that did it before and after him.

KD, Harden, and Kyrie got together and didn’t do shit either.

So much can happen in a season it just doesn’t always come down to how individually good your players are. Winning takes both the right team…then 10 things that could go wrong not going wrong…and then getting lucky enough nobody else has both the team and the luck to make it a fair fight.

Russ is nowhere on the list of guys who had the most talented teams and didn’t win.

Dudes like Nash and Paul have been skating by with epic lineups that did nothing for decades.

Guys like Russ just….feeeeeel more responsible for it. End result?

Hes had a pretty normal second or third tier legend career. And that’s what he is. I don’t think his biggest fans have him as some elite among elites.

Hes your run of the mill legend. Great. But no so great he’s supposed to be leading dynasties.

[ILLsmak]

I don’t see George, KD, or Harden with rings on any team that didn’t win them without them and Jokic has one in ten years. Simple truth is most great players don’t win but not winning is only attributed to the style of a certain type.

You give John Stockton an mvp caliber always healthy and available running mate…an additional all star…a 6th man of the year…and a DPOY. They go out in the first round. There is no “They didn’t have a chance. Wonder if it’s the point guard?”. No matter how many awful playoff letdowns they have.

It just doesn’t feeeeeel like it could be because of that.

And it wasn’t.

But we aren’t really talking results. People who aren’t blamed have Westbrook like team results all the time to little criticism of how they play.

there’s really nothing to criticize in Kevin Durant’s game but he’s been in the league 17 years and only won anything Westbrook hasn’t when he was on a team that did it before and after him.

KD, Harden, and Kyrie got together and didn’t do shit either.

So much can happen in a season it just doesn’t always come down to how individually good your players are. Winning takes both the right team…then 10 things that could go wrong not going wrong…and then getting lucky enough nobody else has both the team and the luck to make it a fair fight.

Russ is nowhere on the list of guys who had the most talented teams and didn’t win.

Dudes like Nash and Paul have been skating by with epic lineups that did nothing for decades.

Guys like Russ just….feeeeeel more responsible for it. End result?

Hes had a pretty normal second or third tier legend career. And that’s what he is. I don’t think his biggest fans have him as some elite among elites.

Hes your run of the mill legend. Great. But no so great he’s supposed to be leading dynasties.

Nobody else had KD on their squad.

This is my logic: I think OKC was (superstar caliber) WB's best team. Maybe he changed and he is better now. He was there with a player who was in most people's eyes better. He did seem to vibe with him on a lot of levels, but when I watched those games, I recall many times where WB would dribble it up and shoot without even looking for the pass. I'd say more than he is indeed a legend tier talent, but he is flawed in certain ways. He should not be the primary ball handler, and since KD couldn't bring it up back then, he had to be. KD even tried to bring it up when WB was making shit decisions, but he failed, too, because he's not a PG.

So, is WB a cancer.... kind of. Haha. I feel like he might be the most cancerous player in NBA history when considering how good he is. I don't think there has been a player who can do so much that was so hampered by his mental game. He is a legit MVP talent. If you wanna put him down some rungs from the other great players of his generation, ok, but even then you are conceding that something other than his skill put him there. As for every player loving him, I don't care what KD said, there is no way that dude loved him haha. KD is a weirdo, sure, but you could tell by how he acted that he was like YOOO a lot. You can enjoy going to war with someone like that, but you don't love them. GSW was all time stacked, true, but it showed how perfect KD is in his role. I fully believe if he had been able to put KD in those spots + do the Westbrook thing, with that team, they would have continued to be formidable.

I just know he could be better. You are usually saying some stuff about having it both ways. Well, I think this is a both ways situation. He isn't John Stockton, ok. But like... of his PG peers, he is right at the top in terms of ability. If he's 2nd or 3rd tier to them, it's because something ain't right about the way he is playing. It's not his skill set, tho he is not a great shooter. I don't know if it matters so much with how he plays. It matters, but not enough to knock him down, imo.

This generation has other cancerous players, too, I guess... but like Embiid... injured, kinda weird. Harden, just weird... is he better than those guys? To me, YES, but again NO because he is bound to **** up the game by making bad decisions. He is a more impactful player in his prime, all things considered.

Edit: so it's not some hypothetical thing. We've seen what he can do and we've seen him **** up the game. If he didn't **** up the game, he would be better. Because he ****s up the game, people dislike him. Most people who liked him didn't really get a chance to play with him in a situation where him ****ing up the game would matter, like deep in the playoffs. They might feel differently having 5 years of that. Jussayin.

-Smak

[tpols]

Nobody else had KD on their squad.

This is my logic: I think OKC was (superstar caliber) WB's best team. Maybe he changed and he is better now. He was there with a player who was in most people's eyes better. He did seem to vibe with him on a lot of levels, but when I watched those games, I recall many times where WB would dribble it up and shoot without even looking for the pass. I'd say more than he is indeed a legend tier talent, but he is flawed in certain ways. He should not be the primary ball handler, and since KD couldn't bring it up back then, he had to be. KD even tried to bring it up when WB was making shit decisions, but he failed, too, because he's not a PG.

So, is WB a cancer.... kind of. Haha. I feel like he might be the most cancerous player in NBA history when considering how good he is. I don't think there has been a player who can do so much that was so hampered by his mental game. He is a legit MVP talent. If you wanna put him down some rungs from the other great players of his generation, ok, but even then you are conceding that something other than his skill put him there. As for every player loving him, I don't care what KD said, there is no way that dude loved him haha. KD is a weirdo, sure, but you could tell by how he acted that he was like YOOO a lot. You can enjoy going to war with someone like that, but you don't love them. GSW was all time stacked, true, but it showed how perfect KD is in his role. I fully believe if he had been able to put KD in those spots + do the Westbrook thing, with that team, they would have continued to be formidable.

I just know he could be better. You are usually saying some stuff about having it both ways. Well, I think this is a both ways situation. He isn't John Stockton, ok. But like... of his PG peers, he is right at the top in terms of ability. If he's 2nd or 3rd tier to them, it's because something ain't right about the way he is playing. It's not his skill set, tho he is not a great shooter. I don't know if it matters so much with how he plays. It matters, but not enough to knock him down, imo.

This generation has other cancerous players, too, I guess... but like Embiid... injured, kinda weird. Harden, just weird... is he better than those guys? To me, YES, but again NO because he is bound to **** up the game by making bad decisions. He is a more impactful player in his prime, all things considered.

Edit: so it's not some hypothetical thing. We've seen what he can do and we've seen him **** up the game. If he didn't **** up the game, he would be better. Because he ****s up the game, people dislike him. Most people who liked him didn't really get a chance to play with him in a situation where him ****ing up the game would matter, like deep in the playoffs. They might feel differently having 5 years of that. Jussayin.

-Smak


Yea... it's obvious that every star is going to lose most years of their career when it comes to rings. Even MJ is only 6/15 which is a losing record for the championship.

Players who have superstar talent lose all the time, but I don't see how it's not logical to break down why they lost so mistakes can be attempted to be corrected.

If one player shoots 30% from the floor and is all time inefficient and his opposition shoots it lights out but ends up losing, I'm not gonna blame the guy who clearly outplayed his star counterpart just because he lost. That's actually exactly what happened in the 2001 ECFs. Ray Allen massively outplayed Allen Iverson but his team lost because their defense was weak and the Sixers defense was super elite.

So Iverson somehow put up way worse numbers vs a way weaker defense. Im... going to judge that. And don't see anything wrong with evaluating context and making an appropriate analysis.

When it comes to Westbrook he's a crash out king which is why he's been passed around the league over and over. Everybody dumps him for a reason.

[Full Court]

It seems picking him up has been good for them so far. The retard below you is a flaming homosexual btw.

^It's quite obvious why this low IQ poster was overwhelmingly voted dumbest poster in ISH history. :roll:

[Kblaze8855]

Players who have superstar talent lose all the time, but I don't see how it's not logical to break down why they lost so mistakes can be attempted to be corrected.



The problem is the people attempting to do it almost never know what they’re talking about. It’s just the most basic of analysis like well….this guy shot this percentage and therefore made the team lose. It only makes sense to people who don’t know basketball. It’s the most surface level of discussion. obviously a game that has almost 200 shots taken one player going eight for 20 as opposed to 10 for 20 doesn’t decide 200 offensive possessions.

it makes no more sense to assume a missed shot from a star could be converted to a made shot by someone else had he been less selfish than to assume if he had taken the 25 shots missed by the role players that even if he made only five of them, he increases the teams total points without increasing the teams total shot attempts. Making the team more efficient while reducing his own shooting percentage drastically.

There are such a drastic leap between a guy missed these two shots I have no reason to think shouldn’t have been taken and the 2 misses being the reason for the outcome when 18 other people took a combined 161 shots that game..

There’s nothing wrong with trying to figure out why team lost but individual shooting percentage when there might literally be 150 other shots taken, 600 passes, 78 ISO attempts, 46 coaching decisions, 2 injuries and 8 bad calls?

I’m not saying not to try. But I’m saying the harder you look the less individual it all is. But fans can’t see the big picture.

There’s a reason damn near every coach from college on up talks incessantly about defense An abstract matters. So much more is going on than people who obsess about shooting numbers ever talk about.

Like I said, it’s fine to talk about but when the team sits down to watch film they don’t determine the problem with a 137 to be 126 game was one guy missing 2 more shots than would make him “efficient” while literally 300 other things happened to get the final score where it is.

fans have just way over individualized games. And it’s largely the NBA’s fault the way they market things. It just really gives a shit impression to people who don’t have a lot of time to look that close.

[Axe]

Even MJ is only 6/15 which is a losing record for the championship.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTj1lShxUHlDGD2SwEotj4E4KDdFz7Pn dgqsrhsRRodf1bwHGLcLgKOCII&s=10 (https://i.ibb.co/RPktct9/IMG-20241018-113551.jpg)

[Im Still Ballin]

The problem is the people attempting to do it almost never know what they’re talking about. It’s just the most basic of analysis like well….this guy shot this percentage and therefore made the team lose. It only makes sense to people who don’t know basketball. It’s the most surface level of discussion. obviously a game that has almost 200 shots taken one player going eight for 20 as opposed to 10 for 20 doesn’t decide 200 offensive possessions.

it makes no more sense to assume a missed shot from a star could be converted to a made shot by someone else had he been less selfish than to assume if he had taken the 25 shots missed by the role players that even if he made only five of them, he increases the teams total points without increasing the teams total shot attempts. Making the team more efficient while reducing his own shooting percentage drastically.

There are such a drastic leap between a guy missed these two shots I have no reason to think shouldn’t have been taken and the 2 misses being the reason for the outcome when 18 other people took a combined 161 shots that game..

There’s nothing wrong with trying to figure out why team lost but individual shooting percentage when there might literally be 150 other shots taken, 600 passes, 78 ISO attempts, 46 coaching decisions, 2 injuries and 8 bad calls?

I’m not saying not to try. But I’m saying the harder you look the less individual it all is. But fans can’t see the big picture.

There’s a reason damn near every coach from college on up talks incessantly about defense An abstract matters. So much more is going on than people who obsess about shooting numbers ever talk about.

Like I said, it’s fine to talk about but when the team sits down to watch film they don’t determine the problem with a 137 to be 126 game was one guy missing 2 more shots than would make him “efficient” while literally 300 other things happened to get the final score where it is.

fans have just way over individualized games. And it’s largely the NBA’s fault the way they market things. It just really gives a shit impression to people who don’t have a lot of time to look that close.

Facts. Guys who look nice in the box score like shooters get the benefit of the doubt over defensive players. From the fans and media anyway.

[Stephonit]

John Stockton wasn't MVP caliber.

Jokic is playing with a former MVP. I guess that excludes him from MVP consideration?

[ILLsmak]

The problem is the people attempting to do it almost never know what they’re talking about. It’s just the most basic of analysis like well….this guy shot this percentage and therefore made the team lose. It only makes sense to people who don’t know basketball. It’s the most surface level of discussion. obviously a game that has almost 200 shots taken one player going eight for 20 as opposed to 10 for 20 doesn’t decide 200 offensive possessions.

it makes no more sense to assume a missed shot from a star could be converted to a made shot by someone else had he been less selfish than to assume if he had taken the 25 shots missed by the role players that even if he made only five of them, he increases the teams total points without increasing the teams total shot attempts. Making the team more efficient while reducing his own shooting percentage drastically.

There are such a drastic leap between a guy missed these two shots I have no reason to think shouldn’t have been taken and the 2 misses being the reason for the outcome when 18 other people took a combined 161 shots that game..

There’s nothing wrong with trying to figure out why team lost but individual shooting percentage when there might literally be 150 other shots taken, 600 passes, 78 ISO attempts, 46 coaching decisions, 2 injuries and 8 bad calls?

I’m not saying not to try. But I’m saying the harder you look the less individual it all is. But fans can’t see the big picture.

There’s a reason damn near every coach from college on up talks incessantly about defense An abstract matters. So much more is going on than people who obsess about shooting numbers ever talk about.

Like I said, it’s fine to talk about but when the team sits down to watch film they don’t determine the problem with a 137 to be 126 game was one guy missing 2 more shots than would make him “efficient” while literally 300 other things happened to get the final score where it is.

fans have just way over individualized games. And it’s largely the NBA’s fault the way they market things. It just really gives a shit impression to people who don’t have a lot of time to look that close.

Sup, yeah percentages and stats in general are misleading. Remember that clip you posted of rudy rolling and nobody passing it, that sort of thing affects teams and players. Now imagine that guy is KD and it’s in the playoffs.

WB is the ‘yea but he’s not a pg’ guy, except he isn’t a carry you scorer, either. If I built my ideal team with wb, I’d take a point forward, too. I’d say if WB gets reb or if they can outlet, go to him. I don’t care if he misses in that situation. If it’s stopped, run o thru another player. That’s why jokic and him play well.

You just can’t come down, in the playoffs, off an inbound and shoot as the pg repeatedly, unless you’re someone like steph. Shooting without letting anyone touch it is toxic. I think wb has a role, but he never got it. I do think he is cancer, but I’d play with him. I’d take him on my squad. He is an amazing talent. But someone needs to determine when he gets the ball because his decision making is sus when it matters.

Like imagine you are down 1 in a game for your life, you see someone inbound to wb for the last shot. Do you feel comfy? He has amazing strengths but deep flaws. People say about ai like if he were 6’4 or whatever, well if WB was a sf or sg, he’d still have some issues, but nobody should really complain.

-Smak

[tpols]

I don't think it was just shooting % that made people criticize Westbrook. It was the way he played as a low IQ floor general.

It's like possessions where there's no passes. 1 guy dribbles it up and shoots it with 0 passes made. Westbrook used to be the king of that. Quick trigger jacks in semi transition and wild sprawling forays towards the rim.

Even in his MVP year averaging double digit dimes his team was in the dead last ranks of assists. He was not a good floor general. It's just that his athleticism was so dominant he could try to force everything himself, but basketball is a team game.

So it wierd that nobodies gotten in his ear and told him to calm down. Imagine if Westbrook played patient... he could technically do it, he just hasn't much in his career.

Maybe the Nuggets elite ball movement system can change him. I don't think Westbrook has ever played on a top ranked assist team like Denver.

[Neal Romer]

I don't think it was just shooting % that made people criticize Westbrook. It was the way he played as a low IQ floor general.

It's like possessions where there's no passes. 1 guy dribbles it up and shoots it with 0 passes made. Westbrook used to be the king of that. Quick trigger jacks in semi transition and wild sprawling forays towards the rim.

Even in his MVP year averaging double digit dimes his team was in the dead last ranks of assists. He was not a good floor general. It's just that his athleticism was so dominant he could try to force everything himself, but basketball is a team game.

So it wierd that nobodies gotten in his ear and told him to calm down. Imagine if Westbrook played patient... he could technically do it, he just hasn't much in his career.

Maybe the Nuggets elite ball movement system can change him. I don't think Westbrook has ever played on a top ranked assist team like Denver.


Definitely this.

People who act like "all 30 point triple doubles are the same" are not remembering the real Westbrook experience. In big moments of close games, you could set your watch by a brick or a turnover when he had the ball. Or he would lose his cool and get a technical, then come back on the next possession trying too hard to stick it to whatever player or ref he was upset with, force the issue and play completely out of control and do something sloppy. He was still doing this against Luka in the playoffs even last year, having meltdowns and committing dumb retaliation fouls and then starting a scrum, just being a boneheaded. Hes been doing that his whole career.

He's not the guy whose hands you want to be in when the chips are down. In fact hes the LAST guy you want in control of a big moment. That doesnt show up in the box score but it definitely sets some "big stats" players apart from others.

[Kblaze8855]

So it wierd that nobodies gotten in his ear and told him to calm down. Imagine if Westbrook played patient... he could technically do it, he just hasn't much in his career.




take a moment to think about how he’s been in the league like 15 years and all of his coaches apparently supported it while he’s also among the most beloved players in the league. Think about why that might be.

coaches and players love the motivational aspect of the energy he brings. I remember when Victor Oladipo was on the verge of superstardom pre injury And he did an interview where he explained Westbrook’s insane work ethic and motor showed him the difference between a good player and a superstar. Showed him that you don’t have to take possessions off. You just have to be in such shape you can go all out all the time and it takes a different level of dedication. Players and coaches appreciate that sort of thing in a way that’s hard to recognize at a distance.

Sabonis was saying a lot of the same. No matter how early he would get to the gym Westbrook would already be there and he learned that just trying to keep up with him made him better. They will be there six in the morning four hours before practice running drills with the janitorial staff who were only other people there.

There’s a truly head scratching number of stories of people around Russ, talking about his professionalism and effort, made them better by association.

I’m not gonna bullshit you and say I’ve never noticed a rushed shot that I would assume was a bad decision. But there’s definitely more than meets the eye with this guy. I don’t think he’s selfish at all. I remember at the end of the bubble the hotel staff was talking about he was going around making sure everything was spotless and then left them thousands of dollars in tips For cleaning up after them.

He has left a trail of teammates, staff, coaches, and so on who just rave about him as a person and professional.

It’s not like any of those people don’t see shots selection. They just see a lot more than that on top of it.

Youd have to ask them why. Every time One of them answers it seems to be an over the top borderline love song talking about professionalism and work ethic so I don’t know what to tell you.

I have no doubt somebody in the past hates him. Somebody hates everybody. But I think he’s pretty deep in the plus column for whatever reason we can’t see on TV.

[Kblaze8855]

Definitely this.

People who act like "all 30 point triple doubles are the same" are not remembering the real Westbrook experience. In big moments of close games, you could set your watch by a brick or a turnover when he had the ball. Or he would lose his cool and get a technical, then come back on the next possession trying too hard to stick it to whatever player or ref he was upset with, force the issue and play completely out of control and do something sloppy. He was still doing this against Luka in the playoffs even last year, having meltdowns and committing dumb retaliation fouls and then starting a scrum, just being a boneheaded. Hes been doing that his whole career.

He's not the guy whose hands you want to be in when the chips are down. In fact hes the LAST guy you want in control of a big moment. That doesnt show up in the box score but it definitely sets some "big stats" players apart from others.

and yet you give Steve Nash Amare, Shawn Marion, and Joe Johnson or Dirk and three more All-Stars at the same time and they lose anyway.

The simplest truth is no matter what you’re gonna lose almost all the time and if you get lucky, you’ll squeak by one year while being no better than you were when you were losing with a team full of all stars.

if you give Westbrook an MVP +3 more All-Stars and they lost in the first round to another pretender all the focus will be on a couple weird turnovers and a shot We consider stupid. Same thing happens with one of the smartest players ever who doesn’t do those things and we just move on and nobody talks about it for 20 years.

in truth, it comes down to perception. Like how you and others were talking about Giannis Being easily beatable for years and then he goes and drops 50 to win the title and your response is basically “Still….” Because he wasn’t double teamed every moment With a waiting shot blocker behind them on a team with two defensive players of the year.

Fans not nearly as smart as they think they are just decide what does and doesn’t work and let the inevitability of usual failure prove them right.

I know it. I’ve been that guy before. I just feel like I’m slowly aging out of so many old Argumentative takes.

I’m slowly settling into the idea that nobody knows anything. Myself absolutely included.

[ILLsmak]

take a moment to think about how he’s been in the league like 15 years and all of his coaches apparently supported it while he’s also among the most beloved players in the league. Think about why that might be.



I honestly believe it's one of those no one has the heart to tell him things. Haha. That or nobody has the balls. In general it's more effective than it is not, but when it comes down to really mattering, it is a liability. It wouldn't be if he had someone else to dictate when he gets the ball. His effort and skill are very high level.

Edit:

I’m slowly settling into the idea that nobody knows anything. Myself absolutely included.

I did that for awhile, too, but then I remembered how fking smart I am.

-Smak

[Neal Romer]

take a moment to think about how he’s been in the league like 15 years and all of his coaches apparently supported it while he’s also among the most beloved players in the league. Think about why that might be.

coaches and players love the motivational aspect of the energy he brings. I remember when Victor Oladipo was on the verge of superstardom pre injury And he did an interview where he explained Westbrook’s insane work ethic and motor showed him the difference between a good player and a superstar. Showed him that you don’t have to take possessions off. You just have to be in such shape you can go all out all the time and it takes a different level of dedication. Players and coaches appreciate that sort of thing in a way that’s hard to recognize at a distance.

Sabonis was saying a lot of the same. No matter how early he would get to the gym Westbrook would already be there and he learned that just trying to keep up with him made him better. They will be there six in the morning four hours before practice running drills with the janitorial staff who were only other people there.

There’s a truly head scratching number of stories of people around Russ, talking about his professionalism and effort, made them better by association.

I’m not gonna bullshit you and say I’ve never noticed a rushed shot that I would assume was a bad decision. But there’s definitely more than meets the eye with this guy. I don’t think he’s selfish at all. I remember at the end of the bubble the hotel staff was talking about he was going around making sure everything was spotless and then left them thousands of dollars in tips For cleaning up after them.

He has left a trail of teammates, staff, coaches, and so on who just rave about him as a person and professional.

It’s not like any of those people don’t see shots selection. They just see a lot more than that on top of it.

Youd have to ask them why. Every time One of them answers it seems to be an over the top borderline love song talking about professionalism and work ethic so I don’t know what to tell you.

I have no doubt somebody in the past hates him. Somebody hates everybody. But I think he’s pretty deep in the plus column for whatever reason we can’t see on TV.


Most of these coaches/players didnt have the benefit of his whole career in hindsight to make an objective evaluation, nor are people IN sports known for making objective evaluations anyway.

It's a well known aspect of sports that players, coaches, and executives often look only at the upside of a potential acquisition's talents and ignore the red flags, and think theyre the ones who can get the most out of whatever player. Theres a hubris to believing "I can be the one to change him." And usually it doesnt work.

Plus, all those teams and coaches and players that wanted him... they eventually all let him go with very little resistance as well. Nobody's been saying "we cant let THIS guy get away!" since his first few years with the Thunder. Teams have been just passing him around figuring "we'll cross our fingers and hope there's some benefit left to this guy I guess."

Of course they still rave about him when they introduce him. Teams do that with every player they bring in. Teams rave about guys like Shake Milton who are just thrown into trades to make the numbers work. Whenever a team acquires anyone they always talk em up in the beginning. But talk is cheap. Actions speak louder and there hasnt been a whole lot of confidence SHOWN in Westbrook in quite a while.

[Neal Romer]

and yet you give Steve Nash Amare, Shawn Marion, and Joe Johnson or Dirk and three more All-Stars at the same time and they lose anyway.

The simplest truth is no matter what you’re gonna lose almost all the time and if you get lucky, you’ll squeak by one year while being no better than you were when you were losing with a team full of all stars.

if you give Westbrook an MVP +3 more All-Stars and they lost in the first round to another pretender all the focus will be on a couple weird turnovers and a shot We consider stupid. Same thing happens with one of the smartest players ever who doesn’t do those things and we just move on and nobody talks about it for 20 years.

in truth, it comes down to perception. Like how you and others were talking about Giannis Being easily beatable for years and then he goes and drops 50 to win the title and your response is basically “Still….” Because he wasn’t double teamed every moment With a waiting shot blocker behind them on a team with two defensive players of the year.

Fans not nearly as smart as they think they are just decide what does and doesn’t work and let the inevitability of usual failure prove them right.

I know it. I’ve been that guy before. I just feel like I’m slowly aging out of so many old Argumentative takes.

I’m slowly settling into the idea that nobody knows anything. Myself absolutely included.

When things happen consistently, thats how reputations are built.

Yes, of course someone who is typically a playoff riser can have a terrible series. That doesnt mean he sucks. And a guy who had underwhelmed previously in his playoff career like Giannis can have a brilliant finals. That also was not the norm to that point. So theres no reason to proclaim that as being the norm.

Westbrook's earned his reputation through many examples over many years. It's not because he screwed up in a big moment that one time. It's been a constant. And Im not talking simply about wins and losses. That does involve circumstance and some luck. Im talking about the individual player I saw play. His stats put him in the company of players I know for a fact hes nowhere near in caliber when it really matters.

[Neal Romer]

and yet you give Steve Nash Amare, Shawn Marion, and Joe Johnson or Dirk and three more All-Stars at the same time and they lose anyway.

The simplest truth is no matter what you’re gonna lose almost all the time and if you get lucky, you’ll squeak by one year while being no better than you were when you were losing with a team full of all stars.

if you give Westbrook an MVP +3 more All-Stars and they lost in the first round to another pretender all the focus will be on a couple weird turnovers and a shot We consider stupid. Same thing happens with one of the smartest players ever who doesn’t do those things and we just move on and nobody talks about it for 20 years.

in truth, it comes down to perception. Like how you and others were talking about Giannis Being easily beatable for years and then he goes and drops 50 to win the title and your response is basically “Still….” Because he wasn’t double teamed every moment With a waiting shot blocker behind them on a team with two defensive players of the year.

Fans not nearly as smart as they think they are just decide what does and doesn’t work and let the inevitability of usual failure prove them right.

I know it. I’ve been that guy before. I just feel like I’m slowly aging out of so many old Argumentative takes.

I’m slowly settling into the idea that nobody knows anything. Myself absolutely included.

When things happen consistently, thats how reputations are built.

Yes, of course someone who is typically a playoff riser can have a terrible series. That doesnt mean he sucks. And a guy who had underwhelmed previously in his playoff career like Giannis can have a brilliant finals. That also was not the norm to that point. So theres no reason to proclaim that as being the norm.

Westbrook earned his reputation through many examples over many years. It's not because he screwed up in a big moment that one time. It's been a constant. And Im not talking simply about wins and losses. That does involve circumstance and some luck. Im talking about the individual player I saw play. His stats put him in the company of players Im certain hes nowhere near in caliber when it really matters.

[SouBeachTalents]

I agree with Blaze that championships are, obv, extremely difficult to win, and I actually do think Westbrook gets too much of the blame for some of the OKC defeats when imo KD was just as culpable in 2014 & 2016, but Westbrook genuinely does have the absolute worst end of game IQ and decision making I've ever seen.

I know you can pull up highlights to make anybody look bad, but his track record of doing inexplicably dumb things in critical moments is pretty remarkable

0:43 here


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A63mcHyGYMs&ab_channel=Gamw

09:12 here. Seriously, I can't imagine anybody else taking a shot like that other than him :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNGkYsMYKhE&ab_channel=MrJamBall

He's had playoff games over the last couple of years mindlessly chucking his way into 3/19, 3/19 and 3/18 games, and ended last years playoffs going a combined 8/42 over the final 5 games, scoring just 25 points on 42 shots.

I'm not even trying to argue his teams win without these kinds of plays and performances from him, but you can't just pretend they don't come to the detriment of the team.

[FilmyCogTurner]

I think what a lot of people don't understand is that sometimes you need a guy to be ultra aggressive even if that means going 8-27.

Westbrook at the start of his career operated as co-captains with KD and at that time he was for sure elite. A lot of boneheaded plays sure, especially down the stretch but that force he played with coupled with insane athletic ability made him a superstar talent in the league. And that elbow jumper was cash back then, it was weird to see it leave him, had to been post KD when it stopped working.

[Kblaze8855]

Plus, all those teams and coaches and players that wanted him... they eventually all let him go with very little resistance as well. Nobody's been saying "we cant let THIS guy get away!" since his first few years with the Thunder. Teams have been just passing him around figuring "we'll cross our fingers and hope there's some benefit left to this guy I guess."




And the same can be said of his polar opposite in Chris Paul who has been on 7 teams and had the same playoff success.

Again….everything talked about happens across the board all through history with only a certain type having it stick. And the reason is simple.

Fans are ignorant of history, confirmation bias mixed with inevitable losing makes people feel validated, and they make everything out to be simple because they themselves are simple with a limited understanding of what they’re seeing.

Id explain better but I’m doing a lot today. I was in Philly for the first post in here, in Manhattan for my reply, and I’m in DC right now going to a movie.

I’ve been intending to answer Illsmak but I never get there.

I’ll read all this in the morning.

[Im Still Ballin]

Insane chemistry.

[999Guy]

They’re an actual duo now. Westbrook is officially a top gameplan talking point for teams now on a vet min deal.

And it’s crazy, when Jokic specifically requested Russ, I thought it was a mistake like Harden and LeBron made in the past. But he had a real vision here.

[Neal Romer]

They’re an actual duo now. Westbrook is officially a top gameplan talking point for teams now on a vet min deal.

And it’s crazy, when Jokic specifically requested Russ, I thought it was a mistake like Harden and LeBron made in the past. But he had a real vision here.


Yeah I was trying to think if they played significant minutes together in an allstar game back in the day or what, altho I dont think they ever overlapped as allstars. I dunno how Jokic knew this would be a good fit when all recent history suggested itd be a terrible fit. Dude's third eye is crazy.

[Im Still Ballin]

Jokic optimizes Westbrook as a playmaker and cutter. He's so versatile he can fit with pretty much anyone. Russ got in Harden and LeBron's way most of the time.

[Kblaze8855]

Yeah I was trying to think if they played significant minutes together in an allstar game back in the day or what, altho I dont think they ever overlapped as allstars. I dunno how Jokic knew this would be a good fit when all recent history suggested itd be a terrible fit. Dude's third eye is crazy.

Also possible….Jokic like most everyone else realized Russ is maybe the most beloved teammate in the nba. People think I’m exaggerating when I say that, but I don’t think I am. It crosses all barriers and play styles. People in the NBA ****ing love Russell Westbrook fans almost universally don’t understand why.

From Fox News guy Enes Kanter to Playoff P. Young guys like Reeves and retired guys too. Americans…Europeans… New Zealanders. He is unbelievably loved by teammates:
Austin Rivers on Russell Westbrook:

"Do I enjoy playing with Russ? Man, Russ is my favourite teammate I've probably ever had man, he's just an amazing guy. Literally, one of the most wrongly depicted person like, people portray him in a way that's just totally not him. He's literally like the best teammate I've ever had in my life. An amazing guy and an amazing player, and its been amazing playing with him.






Kanter said:
Russell Westbrook was the best player I’ve played with. He’s not just the best player… [he’s] the best teammate I’ve had off the court.

The 27-year-old center, who signed a contract this offseason with the Boston Celtics, expanded on what made Westbrook such a delight away from the court.

“That’s something I wanted to tell the whole world. He’s actually a really chill dude, a really good dude,” Kanter said of Westbrook. “He was the one definitely that helped me the most.”





[QUOTE]
"He’s one of the best
Yeah I was trying to think if they played significant minutes together in an allstar game back in the day or what, altho I dont think they ever overlapped as allstars. I dunno how Jokic knew this would be a good fit when all recent history suggested itd be a terrible fit. Dude's third eye is crazy.

Also possible….Jokic like most everyone else realized Russ is maybe the most beloved teammate in the nba. People think I’m exaggerating when I say that, but I don’t think I am. It crosses all barriers and play styles. People in the NBA ****ing love Russell Westbrook fans almost universally don’t understand why.

From Fox News guy Enes Kanter to Playoff P. Young guys like Reeves and retired guys too. Americans…Europeans… New Zealanders. He is unbelievably loved by teammates:
Austin Rivers on Russell Westbrook:

"Do I enjoy playing with Russ? Man, Russ is my favourite teammate I've probably ever had man, he's just an amazing guy. Literally, one of the most wrongly depicted person like, people portray him in a way that's just totally not him. He's literally like the best teammate I've ever had in my life. An amazing guy and an amazing player, and its been amazing playing with him.






Kanter said:
Russell Westbrook was the best player I’ve played with. He’s not just the best player… [he’s] the best teammate I’ve had off the court.

The 27-year-old center, who signed a contract this offseason with the Boston Celtics, expanded on what made Westbrook such a delight away from the court.

“That’s something I wanted to tell the whole world. He’s actually a really chill dude, a really good dude,” Kanter said of Westbrook. “He was the one definitely that helped me the most.”







"He’s one of the best teammates I’ve ever had," Reaves said. "As a person, you can’t get much better. I got COVID in December of my rookie year in Minnesota, and I was stuck there for like seven days. It was rough, but he reached out like three or four times, asked me if I needed anything, offered to send me stuff, whatever I needed. So as a person, you couldn’t get better. And same as a teammate. He was always empowering everybody to really be better and do better. Like you said, he gets a bad rap, and I don’t really understand why."






Bradley Beal, who played with Westbrook on the Washington Wizards, has raved about Westbrook "as a leader, as a player, as a father, as a man."
“He’s the best teammate, probably, I’ve ever had," Beal said (https://www.slamonline.com/news/nba/bradley-beal-considers-russell-westbrook-the-best-teammate-hes-ever-had/). "And just in terms of leadership, probably one of the best leaders I’ve been around. Because he holds himself accountable. He holds himself to a certain standard.”
Paul George, who plays with Westbrook on the Clippers and who previously teamed up with Russ on the Oklahoma City Thunder, explained what makes Westbrook such a great teammate and leader.


"One thing with Russ is that he had a special relationship with everybody on the team," George said on his podcast (https://youtu.be/4pHaeRIfHRI). "He would have a conversation with Steve-o (Steven Adams) about New Zealand stuff, rugby, and then he'll have a conversation with me about fishing, then he'll have a conversation with Jerami Grant on anime. He just had a connection with everybody on the team where [once] you get on the floor, it was chemistry. 'This dude really knows me, he really rocking with me. Hell yeah, I wanna play for him, I'm bought in.'


"I thought that was really special. I've never seen that. Usually the star players, they're not assholes, but they have a special relationship with three or four guys, and the rest is just like, 'Oh yeah, that's my teammate.' Russ was like... everybody was his boy. It was dope, it was the craziest thing I've witnessed... But talk about leadership, Russ was a leader, man."





The players all know each other. They talk. They know who is an asshole and who isn’t. The aspect that fans tend to ignore is that these people spend months together and they really really get to know each other. I think it’s really simple. Russell Westbrook is probably an incredible human being and an incredible teammate and missing an extra three of the 208 shots that get taken in a game doesn’t mean as much to other players as fans think it does.

It’s entirely possible Jokic just really likes the guy and wants to play with him. Is it not conceivable that he’s a great guy and an incredible teammate and word has gotten around and stars and role players alike have a tremendous respect that fans will never understand from watching TV?

Wanting to be around somebody for seven or eight months isn’t about efficiency. Maybe you just don’t wanna hate going to work.

this dude is out here as the MVP hanging out with rookies and g leaguers Getting everybody breakfast working on everyone’s game trying to make sure they last in the league and making personal house calls to check on people and meet their kids and hang out. He’s handing thousands of dollars to housekeepers and writing personalized handwritten notes to thank people.

This is an unusually thoughtful and nice person Even for every day life. For people used to dealing with arrogant ass athletes? He must be a tremendous breath of fresh air.


Maybe players just like the guy because he’s a likable guy?

[tpols]

They’re an actual duo now. Westbrook is officially a top gameplan talking point for teams now on a vet min deal.

And it’s crazy, when Jokic specifically requested Russ, I thought it was a mistake like Harden and LeBron made in the past. But he had a real vision here.

This is actually pretty awesome to see as a player hater myself. We all hope Westbrook can be the best he can be and he's doing it.

[Kblaze8855]

This is actually pretty awesome to see as a player hater myself. We all hope Westbrook can be the best he can be and he's doing it.

just think. You were probably right in the middle of writing a post to hate on him while he was in route to your boy Reeves house with some broccoli cheddar soup and a bottle of patron so he’d feel better while he was sick.

[tpols]

I never hated on him as a person. Except some of that fruity outfits he used to wear. But does seem like a good person which matters more. The NBA GOAT is one of the biggest assholes ever so being a nice guy doesn't necessarily translate or have anything to do with what happens on the court.

[White Hammer]

this dude is out here as the MVP hanging out with rookies and g leaguers Getting everybody breakfast working on everyone’s game trying to make sure they last in the league and making personal house calls to check on people and meet their kids and hang out. He’s handing thousands of dollars to housekeepers and writing personalized handwritten notes to thank people.

This is an unusually thoughtful and nice person Even for every day life. For people used to dealing with arrogant ass athletes? He must be a tremendous breath of fresh air.


Maybe players just like the guy because he’s a likable guy?

When the Nuggets/Spurs played recently they were doing one of those fan games during timeout. In this case it was a shooting competition between 2 little girls. So you look at the one basket and the girl has some lady rebounding for her, probably just a regular employee. Then you look across the court and you see the other girl has freaking RUSSELL WESTBROOK rebounding for her. And when the buzzer sounded Westbrook starts heading to the free throw line to give his girl a high-five, but she had already turned around and was running to halfcourt to get the prize from the announcer haha. The fact that he was the only player out there suggests this fan engagement was purely his decision so it was pretty cool to see.

[Kblaze8855]

I never hated on him as a person. Except some of that fruity outfits he used to wear. But does seem like a good person which matters more. The NBA GOAT is one of the biggest assholes ever so being a nice guy doesn't necessarily translate or have anything to do with what happens on the court.


thing is you can’t really go by a goat standard because you’re talking about five or six people out of thousands. The personality of your teammates is absolutely a chemistry issue. Is easily dismissed due to the inevitable failure that comes with sports. Every player of every variety is likely to fail, almost all the time under any circumstances. So we just attach the traits we don’t like to the failure and ignore the failure Of people without those traits, even though the bottom line is the same.

I think it counts for some of the separation between how players and fans see these things.

I think players just want a positive working environment and they factor that in more than fans ever will because fans don’t give a shit if players like coming to work or not. The fans all of them are rich, so they better get over it. But among a group of people who are all rich, they are really different priorities.

I can see wanting to play with somebody who seems genuinely interested in the well-being of all those around him more than someone you consider an asshole But might help your company in a professional capacity.

A lot of these people don’t care about their teams anymore than we care about our jobs. And that’s ultimately what it is even if we don’t choose to see it that way. It’s a job and people want to be around coworkers they like.

It may not be the biggest priority, but it’s somewhere in a prominent spot on the list.

[Neal Romer]

Also possible….Jokic like most everyone else realized Russ is maybe the most beloved teammate in the nba. People think I’m exaggerating when I say that, but I don’t think I am. It crosses all barriers and play styles. People in the NBA ****ing love Russell Westbrook fans almost universally don’t understand why.



So if his teammates love him and that's what counts, why hasnt he lasted more than a year or two on every team he's been with since the Thunder? Seems everywhere he goes theyre ready to move on from him fairly quickly after he arrives.

Jokic doesnt strike me as someone who makes a player request to management because he needs a friend. Or to have someone in the locker room to give him words of affirmation. He obviously saw some way Westbrook would make sense for the Nuggets on the court, which is impressive prescience considering everywhere else he's been lately has been a disaster.

[Im Still Ballin]

I think he chose to leave Washington because he had a chance to play in his hometown. Then, salary and a poor fit were the issue for the Lakers. He fit really well with the Clippers until Harden arrived and bumped him to the bench. I'm not sure what happened with LAC but either they didn't want him or he sought a greater opportunity in Denver.

Either way, he's on the perfect team, playing with the one player who can get the most out of him. Nobody optimizes Westbrook on AND off the ball like Jokic can. And that's why he's averaging 14 points, 7 rebounds, 8.5 assists, and 2 steals on 60% TS (105 TS+) over 15 games (12-3 W/L) as a starter with Jokic.

[Kblaze8855]

So if his teammates love him and that's what counts, why hasnt he lasted more than a year or two on every team he's been with since the Thunder? Seems everywhere he goes theyre ready to move on from him fairly quickly after he arrives.

Jokic doesnt strike me as someone who makes a player request to management because he needs a friend. Or to have someone in the locker room to give him words of affirmation. He obviously saw some way Westbrook would make sense for the Nuggets on the court, which is impressive prescience considering everywhere else he's been lately has been a disaster.


He’s been involved in nothing worth calling a disaster. The clippers going out early in the playoffs two years isn’t a disaster. It’s being the Clippers. The lakers winning 33 while Lebron and Davis miss almost 70 games combined isn’t a disaster. It’s the reasonable outcome when the team is top heavy and injured and a play in team either way. The rockets losing in the second round as a 4 seed isn’t a disaster. They lost in the second round as a third seed the year before. The wizards making the playoffs as an pretender isn’t a disaster. It’s being the Wizards. Denver definitely isn’t a disaster so far either. But if they lose to another team that isn’t even legit themselves he will get blamed even though they did exactly that last year.

This is exactly my issue. Rewriting standards to manufacture more negativity than the results justify.

As I said he hasn’t even been on as many teams as Chris Paul. But apparently his play style and personality is why. Hell they got traded for each other.

One apparently an outcast the other the point god.

Its all just made up as we go along.

[Neal Romer]

He’s been involved in nothing worth calling a disaster. The clippers going out early in the playoffs two years isn’t a disaster. It’s being the Clippers. The lakers winning 33 while Lebron and Davis miss almost 70 games combined isn’t a disaster. It’s the reasonable outcome when the team is top heavy and injured and a play in team either way. The rockets losing in the second round as a 4 seed isn’t a disaster. They lost in the second round as a third seed the year before. The wizards making the playoffs as an pretender isn’t a disaster. It’s being the Wizards. Denver definitely isn’t a disaster so far either. But if they lose to another team that isn’t even legit themselves he will get blamed even though they did exactly that last year.

This is exactly my issue. Rewriting standards to manufacture more negativity than the results justify.

As I said he hasn’t even been on as many teams as Chris Paul. But apparently his play style and personality is why. Hell they got traded for each other.

One apparently an outcast the other the point god.

Its all just made up as we go along.


You were just the guy in another thread saying dont equate the player with the results. Now thats what youre doing.

Im saying Westbrook's PLAY was a disaster when it counted. Nobody in Houston thought "this worked well" and thats why they traded him. Thats why the Lakers specifically ditched him without making any secret of the fact they considered the signing a mistake, and not ditching every other player involved in the result.

He was dropping 3-17 games in the playoffs for the Clippers last year and despite losing PG and not having Kawhi either to start this season, they offered him no role/contract for this year. If it wasnt for Jokic hes probably out of the league.

So, youre clearly sterilizing the recent history to protect Westbrook for whatever reason.

[Kblaze8855]

You’re the one talking about disasters. If a disaster had the same results as non disasters you probably need a different word.

What I was talking about in the topic you mentioned(I thought it was this one) is exactly the issue.

Youre talking about disasters when you don’t…really…know what you’re talking about. Just another limited info fan trying to attribute negative results where you think they go based on your limited understanding of what causes outcomes.

Dudes been in the nba for 17 years. Hes played more games than Mutombo and Ewing. He should have been gone already if the people who mattered saw things the way you do. He will eventually be out of the league after playing much much longer than plenty of dissimilar players the league let go of before they wanted it.

But no doubt whenever that day comes you’ll rewrite standards to take a victory lap as if it isn’t just…time for someone to retire from sports.

That guy doesn’t need protecting. Hes gonna retire a first ballot hall of famer who happens to also be among the most beloved teammates in memory.

You having a problem is of little consequence. Just fan noise. Nothing about his career suggests any lack of respect not reflected in the last stages of a bunch of legends you’re content to ignore.

[Im Still Ballin]

Here's what I said back in July 2024 when Westbrook officially signed with Denver. The thread here was deleted but I made the exact same post on RealGM. I'm calling this a W for me. The only thing I got wrong was Russ working well with the bench.


July 19th, 2024

I can see it working solidly. With the bench and even the starters. Jokic is a great screener and he doesn't need the space other bigs need when rolling to the basket due to his floater and high-release mid-range game. And great passing. Westbrook not drawing much defensive attention in the PnR is less of a concern.

Russ + Zubac was a good PnR tandem and Ivica has the best floater/paint-extended game outside of Jokic.

Russ gives Denver an actual playmaker outside of Jokic. And there should be great cutting opportunities for him with Nikola's playmaking from the paint-extended/free-throw line/nail area. Not to mention the Nuggets like to play up-tempo, getting out in transition and inbounding fast for early offense.

Even if it's just to help them in the regular season it's still potentially a win. Jamal will inevitably miss 20-30+ games.


July 19th, 2024

The Westbrook with Zubac and without Harden lineup minutes tended to do well. I remember before they got Harden LAC was killing it. The [Westbrook, George, Leonard, Covington, Zubac] lineup was +38.4 in 50:51 minutes of game time. A small sample admittedly, but not too shabby.

I can see the [Westbrook, Braun/Murray, Porter, Gordon, Jokic] lineups functioning in a similar fashion. And he should help the bench units too.


July 19th, 2024

Also building on Westbrook's fit with Jokic: 1) Russ is great at post-entry passes, even within the PnR; 2) The reckless way Russ attacks the rim creates more offensive rebounds, putbacks, and tip-ins.

The second point sounds ridiculous but it tends to hold true throughout his career. It's covered in the Thinking Basketball video below.

https://i.ibb.co/thH5nLm/8xjm6r.gif

https://youtu.be/8zhBVMAjAmA?feature=shared&t=248

I was bang on about the starting lineups featuring Westbrook. Here's how the numbers are looking so far:


Basketball Reference

C. Braun | A. Gordon | N. Jokić | M. Porter | R. Westbrook: 100:21 minutes played (4th most-used lineup), +26.1 net rating
A. Gordon | N. Jokić | J. Murray | M. Porter | R. Westbrook: 47:31 minutes played (7th most-used lineup), +21.0 net rating


NBA.com

C. Braun | A. Gordon | N. Jokić | M. Porter | R. Westbrook: 100 minutes played (4th most-used lineup), 126.7 ORtg, 100.9 DRtg, +25.8 net rating
A. Gordon | N. Jokić | J. Murray | M. Porter | R. Westbrook: 48 minutes played (7th most-used lineup), 129.8 ORtg, 112.9 DRtg, +16.9 net rating

[Im Still Ballin]

Denver is up to 15-3 now in games Westbrook has started with Jokic. Per game averages: 14 points, 6 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 steals, 3 turnovers, 52.7% FG, 59.1% TS.