Duncan( 97-99) vs Wemby (23-25) two years in...who you got?

[Phoenix]

And lets see if we can discuss it without bringing up that Duncan won a title in 99 with a considerably better cast. So the question is... just as players on the floor, rolling out the ball who you taking as of NOW?

I did see an interesting stat( since we in this era of talking up random milestones). 100 games in, Wemby has more points than Lebron, more blocks than Hakeem, and more 3s than Steph. Notable as these are the all-time leaders in each category.

[highwhey]

Duncan 24/7

his offense was more refined, i don't care for a 7 footer taking 3s. give me a forward that can post you up, hit bank shots, has a face up game that doesn't involved getting stripped every other play. his back to the basket game was elite and extremely reliable...like more reliable than mikal bridges suiting up for a game, more reliable than lebron scoring double digits

there's an unverified tweet claiming duncan beat wemby in a juan on juan game 12-2 recently.

https://i.postimg.cc/ncJxcS7Q/image.png

[Real Men Wear Green]

Duncan was better but had the benefit of 4 years of NCAA. My only real gripe with Wemby is that I believe he'd be better off he cut out the threes but he's still an efficient scorer. Over time he's likely to either improve in shot selection or get better at shooting threes so I would go with Wembanyama. Great as Duncan was I believe Wembanyama will be an even more dominant defensive force. He's got the greatest potential as a defender of any player I've ever seen, a potential he will reach, and will average points in the high 20s in his prime.

[Phoenix]

Duncan 24/7

his offense was more refined, i don't care for a 7 footer taking 3s. give me a forward that can post you up, hit bank shots, has a face up game that doesn't involved getting stripped every other play. his back to the basket game was elite and extremely reliable...like more reliable than mikal bridges suiting up for a game, more reliable than lebron scoring double digits

there's an unverified tweet claiming duncan beat wemby in a juan on juan game 12-2 recently.

https://i.postimg.cc/ncJxcS7Q/image.png

I read that but I'm not sure if that was fake or not. 90% of the shit I see online now comes with heaping spoonfuls of salt. Shit like that would have been on someones camera and uploaded since everything is video'ed nowaways.

I just don't know if it's a disrespectful question to ask yet because obviously we know the totality of Duncan's career and for me he's like a top 8-ish GOAT but this is about their first two years as of now.

[highwhey]

I read that but I'm not sure if that was fake or not. 90% of the shit I see online now comes with heaping spoonfuls of salt. Shit like that would have been on someones camera and uploaded since everything is video'ed nowaways.

I just don't know if it's a disrespectful question to ask yet because obviously we know the totality of Duncan's career and for me he's like a top 8-ish GOAT but this is about their first two years as of now.

for sure, i would not take it as some truth but it's not beyond the realm of possibilities considering it's duncan and it's a 1on1 match not a full court 5x5 game.

[Phoenix]

Duncan was better but had the benefit of 4 years of NCAA. My only real gripe with Wemby is that I believe he'd be better off he cut out the threes but he's still an efficient scorer. Over time he's likely to either improve in shot selection or get better at shooting threes so I would go with Wembanyama. Great as Duncan was I believe Wembanyama will be an even more dominant defensive force. He's got the greatest potential as a defender of any player I've ever seen, a potential he will reach, and will average points in the high 20s in his prime.

That's my main beef as well but he's very much a product of his era when it comes to that. Defensively I agree, as great aa Duncan was defensively, Wemby is so long and athletic he can actually cover the basket and then close out on corner 3's. And he's never out of the play even if he bites on the first pumpfake:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFqTa4_I5oA&ab_channel=ChazNBA

He's like his own help defender lol. He barely needs to jump to block a shot so if he bites on the first one he can almost instantaneously recover.

[pandiani17]

Is this a serious question? Duncan was 1st team all-NBA his rookie season and won the championship in his second season. I don't think Wemby will match that, to be honest.

[Phoenix]

Is this a serious question? Duncan was 1st team all-NBA his rookie season and won the championship in his second season. I don't think Wemby will match that, to be honest.

Yes it's a serious question. Did you read where I said see if we can compare them as players without the championship, since the 99 Spurs are considerably better than the current ones? And as for first team all-nba, I'd argue it was easier for Duncan to achieve that in 98. Barkley was past his prime, Scottie missed half the year, so who else would be really challenging him for a forward spot on the 1st team that year asides from an aging Karl Malone and Grant Hill? To be first team in the frontcourt now you're competing with peak Jokic and Giannis, Embiid( when healthy), and prime AD. I would argue with Embiid being injured this year he may be first team and it would be criminal if he's not DPOY.

[Full Court]

Duncan....but Wemby's ceiling is higher. Wemby's potential is GOAT-tier.

[MrFonzworth]

You've got to be kidding me, right? Duncan won a championship in year 2. No way OP is serious.

[SouBeachTalents]

Duncan won a fvcking FMVP in his sophomore year, Wemby may not even win a playoff game. Absolutely ridiculous question.

[Phoenix]

You've got to be kidding me, right? Duncan won a championship in year 2. No way OP is serious.

Are you? The very first thing I said is lets see if we can compare them just as players( given that Duncan played on a way better Spurs team in 99).

You then completely ignore that and go right to the championship argument. Duncan isn't winning with the 2024 Spurs either.

[Hey Yo]

Wemby's already played like 6yrs against pro's and still isn't better than 2nd year Duncan.

[Phoenix]

Duncan won a fvcking FMVP in his sophomore year, Wemby may not even win a playoff game. Absolutely ridiculous question.

Now I expect more nuanced takes from you than this. Come on SBT....

[tpols]

Duncan was 1st team All NBA in 1998.

[Hey Yo]

You've got to be kidding me, right? Duncan won a championship in year 2. No way OP is serious.

First post about basketball in 3yrs ^^^^

[Phoenix]

Why oh why did I ever think, in a post where I'm specifically asking to compare these two *as players* after 2 seasons without using circumstantial accolades.....that the majority answers would be circumstantial accolades. Fukking hell....

[Phoenix]

Let me simplify it, for the 'herp derp Duncan won a title' low hanging fruit replies. Is Wemby, assuming health, at least trending to be potentially better than Duncan? Or are we gonna stick with Duncan won a title with David Robinson as the defacto fallback? Because Wemby could very easily be first team All-NBA this year( with Jokic and Giannis),stiffer competition at the forward spot than Duncan in 98, and end up DPOY.

[ShawkFactory]

Duncan was more polished, knew where is spots were, and was already a leader. I’d go with him if I’m starting a team and only get them in their first two years.

[Phoenix]

Duncan was more polished, knew where is spots were, and was already a leader. I’d go with him if I’m starting a team and only get them in their first two years.

Thank you for replying in the spirit the question was intended. How do you see them in terms of defensive impact( taking into account of course they had different responsibilities because of how the game is played nowadays).

I find it interesting that people here steer away from championships when the conversation is something like MJ vs Lebron...preferring to argue that as a 'team achievement'....but use that very crouch comparing Wemby vs Duncan.

[ShawkFactory]

Thank you for replying in the spirit the question was intended. How do you see them in terms of defensive impact( taking into account of course they had different responsibilities because of how the game is played nowadays).

I find it interesting that people here steer away from championships when the conversation is something like MJ vs Lebron...preferring to argue that as a 'team achievement'....but use that very crouch comparing Wemby vs Duncan.

It’s kind of a cop out to say, but I think defensively they both impact their era greater than the other would. Wembys length and athleticism of course play now with all the spacing but I think he’d get beat up more than Duncan in 1998. Particularly on the boards.

[Phoenix]

It’s kind of a cop out to say, but I think defensively they both impact their era greater than the other would. Wembys length and athleticism of course play now with all the spacing but I think he’d get beat up more than Duncan in 1998. Particularly on the boards.

Yeah he'd need to bulk up more in the 90s.

I actually didn't think it was a crazy question but apparently it is. Here I thought 98 was a 'weak' period for the league but apparently that only matters depending on which players are in the argument. To me Wemby's not that far off from being top 5 right now but I'd like to see him in the playoffs first.

[ILLsmak]

I agree with the Duncan by a mile take, tho. It really is that simple. Duncan was so smart as a youngin. Wemby isn't a basketball genius. Maybe it won't matter in the end, but it does in the beginning.

Not a huge Duncan fan, either, but this is not a hard question. One time that the 'troll responses' are right.

-Smak

[pandiani17]

Yeah he'd need to bulk up more in the 90s.

I actually didn't think it was a crazy question but apparently it is. Here I thought 98 was a 'weak' period for the league but apparently that only matters depending on which players are in the argument. To me Wemby's not that far off from being top 5 right now but I'd like to see him in the playoffs first.

It was not a weak period and the PF position was starting to get loaded with talent: Karl Malone (who won MVP in the 1999 regular season), Kevin Garnett already having a couple of All-Star appearances under his belt, Charles Barkley, Chris Webber, Shawn Kemp, Vin Baker,Rasheed Wallace, etc. And it got even more competitive in the early 2000s with Dirk Nowitzki, Elton Brand, Jermaine O'Neal, Pau Gasol, Amare Stoudemire, Zach Randolph, etc.

[pandiani17]

Yeah he'd need to bulk up more in the 90s.

I actually didn't think it was a crazy question but apparently it is. Here I thought 98 was a 'weak' period for the league but apparently that only matters depending on which players are in the argument. To me Wemby's not that far off from being top 5 right now but I'd like to see him in the playoffs first.

It was not a weak period and the PF position was starting to get loaded with talent: Karl Malone (who won MVP in the 1999 regular season), Kevin Garnett already having a couple of All-Star appearances under his belt, Charles Barkley, Chris Webber, Shawn Kemp, Vin Baker,Rasheed Wallace, etc. And it got even more competitive in the early 2000s with Dirk Nowitzki, Elton Brand, Jermaine O'Neal, Pau Gasol, Amare Stoudemire, Zach Randolph, etc.

[tpols]

Yeah he'd need to bulk up more in the 90s.

I actually didn't think it was a crazy question but apparently it is. Here I thought 98 was a 'weak' period for the league but apparently that only matters depending on which players are in the argument. To me Wemby's not that far off from being top 5 right now but I'd like to see him in the playoffs first.

I don't really think wemby can bulk up. He seems like he will always be skinny like Durant, but to an even larger degree since he's even taller and lankier.

With those giraffe legs he'd never be able to move leverage on anthony mason or Oakley or Rodman types. He would just have to shoot over everybody like he's doing now.

[Phoenix]

It was not a weak period and the PF position was starting to get loaded with talent: Karl Malone (who won MVP in the 1999 regular season), Kevin Garnett already having a couple of All-Star appearances under his belt, Charles Barkley, Chris Webber, Shawn Kemp, Vin Baker,Rasheed Wallace, etc. And it got even more competitive in the early 2000s with Dirk Nowitzki, Elton Brand, Jermaine O'Neal, Pau Gasol, Amare Stoudemire, Zach Randolph, etc.

Malone was 36 and past his heyday in 99. Garnett wasn't quite there yet, same for Webber. Kemp's best days were behind him. Vin Baker? good player at his best, but come on. He was never an All-NBA first teamer. Barkley was a year from retirement. But anyways, I always see on this board that the late 90's was a weak period after expansion. Guess it depends on the conversation when you have people saying the players today are more skilled/talented, so comparing accolades in a vacuum isn't really a 1:1.

The early 2000s being more competitive at the position has nothing to do with Duncan in 98 making the all-NBA first team.

[Phoenix]

I don't really think wemby can bulk up. He seems like he will always be skinny like Durant, but to an even larger degree since he's even taller and lankier.



Yeah probably not, it's just his body type( and would take away from what he is if he could).

[Carbine]

This is easily Duncan. He was the best player on a title team by '99 and was first team all NBA. He was a better player in his era than Wemby is in this era. No shame in that, Wemby being younger and all.

[highwhey]

You've got to be kidding me, right? Duncan won a championship in year 2. No way OP is serious.

:lol

[1987_Lakers]

I would probably take Duncan, but it's way closer than some people think, especially when you consider how well Wemby is playing this season.

[Phoenix]

I would probably take Duncan, but it's way closer than some people think, especially when you consider how well Wemby is playing this season.

Agreed. Just defensively I feel like people are underestimating how much of a game changer this dude is. He doesn't even have anyone on the team remotely as good as 99 David Robinson for the championship argument to even matter. That's why I was trying to steer the conversation to just comparing them as on-floor talents, but throwing out the chip argument takes way less effort.

[3ba11]

Wemby doesn't shoot, dribble or score as well as many other shooters or ball-handlers, so he doesn't have a skill advantage compared to his peers, while Duncan dominated the post better than his peers, so Duncan won right away.. Wemby will always be stuck trying to be guard, so he'll never have an advantage on his peers from a skill standpoint, or achieve the chemistry that Duncan did.

But he'll always be a great stat-padder, so you guys will hold on for a long time before you realize that putting an 8 footer so far from the rim is bad for chemistry.

[1987_Lakers]

Wemby doesn't shoot, dribble or score as well as many other shooters or ball-handlers, so he doesn't have a skill advantage compared to his peers, while Duncan dominated the post better than his peers, so Duncan won right away.. Wemby will always be stuck trying to be guard, so he'll never have an advantage on his peers from a skill standpoint, or achieve the chemistry that Duncan did.

But he'll always be a great stat-padder, so you guys will hold on for a long time before you realize that putting an 8 footer so far from the rim is bad for chemistry.

Remember when you called him a bust? lol

[3ba11]

Remember when you called him a bust? lol


If he doesn't win any titles, or if he has to team-up with opponents like Lebron - then he will be a bust

I think his game sucks tbh... An 8 footer shooting threes and trying to put the ball between his legs - he looks like an idiot.... but you guys just don't understand basketball, which is why it took you 10 years to get tired of threes (as I told you that you would)

[SouBeachTalents]

Remember when you called him a bust? lol
Oof, another horrible take from 3ball.

[Phoenix]

Remember when you called him a bust? lol

And Steph was the most overrated player ever, then two months later he was top 10. And this occurred during the summer of 2021, so he hadn't done anything on the court to even shift that opinion from the end of one season to the start of the next.

[Phoenix]

Wemby doesn't shoot, dribble or score as well as many other shooters or ball-handlers, so he doesn't have a skill advantage compared to his peers, while Duncan dominated the post better than his peers, so Duncan won right away.. Wemby will always be stuck trying to be guard, so he'll never have an advantage on his peers from a skill standpoint, or achieve the chemistry that Duncan did.

But he'll always be a great stat-padder, so you guys will hold on for a long time before you realize that putting an 8 footer so far from the rim is bad for chemistry.

So which category are you putting him in today that you'll flip flop on by next season? Ball-dominator? Bird-fed? Elite jumpshooter?

[3ba11]

And Steph was the most overrated player ever, then two months later he was top 10. And this occurred during the summer of 2021, so he hadn't done anything on the court to even shift that opinion from the end of one season to the start of the next.


Curry proved me wrong because I had a blind spot of the 3ball, but what does Wemby have to prove me wrong??

Nothing... It's simply suboptimal to have a guy that tall play guard and be 1st option - he'll NEVER WIN, unless he stacks the deck like Lebron...

You'll see... You just don't understand how basketball works and get your information from journalism majors, which makes your understanding even worse... Otoh, I had the insight on 3-pointers 10 years ago and people are finally catching up - people are finally realizing that today's game isn't really basketball and sucks

[3ba11]

So which category are you putting him in today that you'll flip flop on by next season? Ball-dominator? Bird-fed? Elite jumpshooter?


He's a 7'5" guy that tries to be a guard... This cannot win because literally ALL his peers shoot and dribble better than him - they do what he does BETTER, so he's just for entertainment and not someone that can win... otoh, Duncan entered the league as the best post player in the game (massive edge over peers), so he won immediately without that much help.

[Phoenix]

Curry proved me wrong because I had a blind spot of the 3ball, but what does Wemby have to prove me wrong??

Nothing... It's simply suboptimal to have a guy that tall play guard and be 1st option - he'll NEVER WIN, unless he stacks the deck like Lebron...

You'll see... You just don't understand how basketball works and get your information from journalism majors, which makes your understanding even worse... Otoh, I had the insight on 3-pointers 10 years ago and people are finally catching up and realizing today's game isn't really basketball and sucks




Your lack of understanding for how basketball works is what caused the original take, not that Curry proved you wrong. Not to mention that calling Curry a top 10 player while also calling the current era inferior is an inherent conflict unto itself.

For the record, I've said multiple times that I think he shoots too many 3's. I think a 7'4 version of how Chris Bosh played offensively in Toronto would be optimal for him, albeit with much greater physical tools and a higher ceiling.

[Phoenix]

He's a 7'5" guy that tries to be a guard... This cannot win because literally ALL his peers shoot and dribble better than him - they do what he does BETTER, so he's just for entertainment and not someone that can win... otoh, Duncan entered the league as the best post player in the game (massive edge over peers), so he won immediately without that much help.

I just need a category. And who would be his peers in this case?

[SouBeachTalents]

Your lack of understanding is what caused the original take, not that Curry proved you wrong.

For the record, I've said multiple times that I think he shoots too many 3's. I think a 7'4 version of how Chris Bosh played offensively in Toronto would be optimal for him, albeit with much greater physical tools and a higher ceiling.
Yep, him being proven wrong wasn't the issue, it was that he genuinely had no idea what he was talking about :lol He took an absolutely brutal beating in that thread, even from posters who support him like tpols

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493318-Curry-is-the-most-overrated-player-in-history&p=14582825&viewfull=1#post14582825

[Phoenix]

Yep, him being proven wrong wasn't the issue, it was that he genuinely had no idea what he was talking about :lol He took an absolutely brutal beating in that thread, even from posters who support him like tpols

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493318-Curry-is-the-most-overrated-player-in-history&p=14582825&viewfull=1#post14582825

Exactly. He's done everything to underplay that his original take was one of the worst opinions ever written on this board. That he 'came around' on it is neither here or there. And the funny thing is, he changed his mind during the off-season.

[3ba11]

Your lack of understanding is what caused the original take, not that Curry proved you wrong.

For the record, I've said multiple times that I think he shoots too many 3's. I think a 7'4 version of how Chris Bosh played offensively in Toronto would be optimal for him, albeit with much greater physical tools and a higher ceiling.


I don't watch basketball, so I missed the 3-point revolution, but once I was up to speed on threes, everything was back to normal - I predict everything right.

Otoh, you guys don't understand how basketball works... When someone says they got "hot" - you have no idea what they're talking about... You don't know what people mean when they say someone is a "dog"... You don't value or understand ball movement, and why it's the best brand of ball.. This is because you've never stood around twiddling your thumbs while some dumb ball-dominator takes forever to make their move.. (you never played).

Again, you don't understand basketball, so you don't understand how suboptimal Wemby's game is - he will need ridiculous help to even contend, let alone win... I guarantee that Popovich knows that he can't win with Wemby, but he's just going along with it because the NBA is just entertainment now anyway (WWE style)..

no one cares about winning anymore or thinks it reflects basketball ability... Things have completely devolved to this level, and it's due to Lebron's "decision", which opened the Overton Window of less competitiveness, such aa an easy-scoring format, load management, colluding with opponents, or the "rings don't matter" philosophy...

[tpols]

On the flip side though, does anybody think '98 or '99 Duncan would lead this Spurs team in this current western conference to a title?

Like I'm looking at the Spurs roster and after Wemby the leading scorers are Julian champagnie, Kelton Johnson, and Stephon Castle.

:biggums:

David Robinson was All NBA in the late 90s and had dominant top 5 superstar metrics in 1999. And they faced the Ewing-less 8 seed Knicks in the NBA Finals.

We have to apply some context here when talking about the team result in there respective cases.

[Phoenix]

I don't watch basketball, so I missed the 3-point revolution, but once I was up to speed on threes, everything was back to normal - I predict everything right.

Otoh, you guys don't understand how basketball works... When someone says they got "hot" - you have no idea what they're talking about... You don't know what people mean when they say someone is a "dog"... You don't value or understand ball movement, and why it's the best brand of ball.. This is because you've never stood around twiddling your thumbs while some dumb ball-dominator takes forever to make their move.. (you never played).

Again, you don't understand basketball, so you don't understand how suboptimal Wemby's game is - he will need ridiculous help to even contend, let alone win... I guarantee that Popovich knows that he can't win with Wemby, but he's just going along with it because the NBA is just entertainment now anyway (WWE style)..

no one cares about winning anymore or thinks it reflects basketball ability... Things have completely devolved to this level, and it's due to Lebron's "decision", which opened the Overton Window of less competitiveness, such aa an easy-scoring format or load management..

13,000 posts on a sport you admit you haven't watched in a decade makes you an uninformed idiot. None of your copy and paste shit changes that and even having the gall to utter such a dumb opinion about Curry in the first place. If I were you I wouldn't tell anyone you played at whatever level you claim to have played at.

[3ba11]

On the flip side though, does anybody think '98 or '99 Duncan would lead this Spurs team in this current western conference to a title?

Like I'm looking at the Spurs roster and after Wemby the leading scorers are Julian champagnie, Kelton Johnson, and Stephon Castle.

:biggums:

David Robinson was All NBA in the late 90s and had dominant top 5 superstar metrics in 1999. And they faced the Ewing-less 8 seed Knicks in the NBA Finals.

We have to apply some context here when talking about the team result in there respective cases.


All the best players in today's game are bigs like Embiid, Jokic or Giannis, so Duncan would be no different.. Duncan entered the league as the best post player in the game, and that would be no different today.

The reason that great bigs can run roughshod in today's game and populate the top 3 spots in the league is due to the spacing and open paint, which allows big more room to operate... full stop

[Phoenix]

On the flip side though, does anybody think '98 or '99 Duncan would lead this Spurs team in this current western conference to a title?

Like I'm looking at the Spurs roster and after Wemby the leading scorers are Julian champagnie, Kelton Johnson, and Stephon Castle.

:biggums:

David Robinson was All NBA in the late 90s and had dominant top 5 superstar metrics in 1999. And they faced the Ewing-less 8 seed Knicks in the NBA Finals.

We have to apply some context here when talking about the team result in there respective cases.

THANK YOU. That's literally why I said the 'championship argument' doesn't work in this comparison, but it's used as a gotcha.

[3ba11]

THANK YOU. That's literally why I said the 'championship argument' doesn't work in this comparison, but it's used as a gotcha.


Duncan entered the league as the best at the most important skill (post), while Wemby entered the league without being top 50 in any skill except blocks... That's why Duncan won right away and Wemby will be a perennial loser.. Wemby will never be the best at any skill in the NBA except blocks, so he will always trail his more skilled peers... I'm sure the NBA will manufacture his team like they did Lebron's, so he can win some chips... But he lacks the fundamentals to build great chemistry and team on his own.

[3ba11]

All the best players in today's game are bigs like Embiid, Jokic or Giannis, so Duncan would be no different.. Duncan entered the league as the best post player in the game, and that would be no different today.

The reason that great bigs can run roughshod in today's game and populate the top 3 spots in the league is due to the spacing and open paint, which allows big more room to operate... full stop


:pimp:

[tpols]

:pimp:

Bro you're going to end up eating your words on wemby just like you did on Curry when he was coming up. Then you'll have to lump him in with all the other off ball shooter superstar types as the ones that win.

Somebody with giraffe legs isn't meant to dominate the low post like Shaq. He has no leverage for that and it goes against the laws of physics. He's better off playing an off ball finesse game of catching lobs and shooting jumpers. Something you've generally praised over ball domination.

[Phoenix]

Duncan entered the league as the best at the most important skill (post), while Wemby entered the league without being top 50 in any skill except blocks... That's why Duncan won right away and Wemby will be a perennial loser.. Wemby will never be the best at any skill in the NBA except blocks, so he will always trail his more skilled peers... I'm sure the NBA will manufacture his team like they did Lebron's, so he can win some chips... But he lacks the fundamentals to build great chemistry and team on his own.

So why didn't MJ win right away? If the argument is because his team was shit, I invite you to look at the Spurs 2024 roster. The only other players right now who could get this group of G-leaguers + 40 year old Chris Paul to over .500 is probably Jokic and Giannis, two top 20 all-timers at the peaks of their careers. It doesn't matter if his individual skill breakdown is in the upper echelon right now or not because nobody his size is supposed to be doing the array of shit he's doing, period. The only thing I want to see is him work around the elbow more and cut the 3s in half.

[Carbine]

Trolls don't have logic. On paper, Wemby fits the mold of everything that 3ball generally praises and is none of the things he critiques Bron or other "ball dominantors" for

Yet here we are.

[3ba11]

finesse game and shooting jumpers. Something you've generally praised over ball domination.


^^^ He'll never be top 50 at those things though, so he won't win unless the NBA manufactures his teams just like another completely unfundamentally-sound player that couldn't develop great chemistry either (lebron)

And the reality is that you guys are hanging on the Curry example - that's all you have in a sea of correct predictions, such as predicting 10 years ago that the 3-point format would cause everyone to stop watching.. I was right about that and everything except Curry.

[Carbine]

So why didn't MJ win right away? If the argument is because his team was shit, I invite you to look at the Spurs 2024 roster. The only other players right now who could get this group of G-leaguers + 40 year old Chris Paul to over .500 is probably Jokic and Giannis, two top 20 all-timers at the peaks of their careers. It doesn't matter if his individual skill breakdown is in the upper echelon right now or not because nobody his size is supposed to be doing the array shit he's doing, period. The only thing I want to see is him work around the elbow more and cut the 3s in half.


Nobody expects Wemby to win now. His roster is complete garbage if we are talking championship caliber.

The difference is Wemby couldn't handle being the clear cut #1 on a title winning team right now. His offensive game would get exposed at the highest levels of playoff basketball, whereas Duncan was excellent as the go to guy - granted he still had flaws of reading defenses at times that he eventually corrected but his offensive skill set was good enough that teams couldnt expose him when it mattered.

Wemby does not have that kind of offensive ability yet. He would have a '07 Bron vs Spurs series vs any tightly knit defensive team with playoff basketball physicality (games are reffed different in the playoffs vs regular season)

[Phoenix]

Bro you're going to end up eating your words on wemby just like you did on Curry when he was coming up. Then you'll have to lump him in with all the other off ball shooter superstar types as the ones that win.



And when he does, he'll have the same 'Wemby proved me wrong, you guys don't understand basketball' bullshit he uses for Curry.

This is what Wemby IMO should be playing like stylistically:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT__LN7Sj7Q&ab_channel=iBeButler

And in some ways he kinda does, but with 9 threes because that's the league he's in.

[Phoenix]

Nobody expects Wemby to win now. His roster is complete garbage if we are talking championship caliber.

The difference is Wemby couldn't handle being the clear cut #1 on a title winning team right now. His offensive game would get exposed at the highest levels of playoff basketball, whereas Duncan was excellent as the go to guy - granted he still had flaws of reading defenses at times that he eventually corrected but his offensive skill set was good enough that teams couldnt expose him when it mattered.

Wemby does not have that kind of offensive ability yet. He would have a '07 Bron vs Spurs series vs any tightly knit defensive team with playoff basketball physicality (games are reffed different in the playoffs vs regular season)

Nobody except 3ball, you mean.

I've said before I don't think Wemby is 1a offensively on a title team. I think he will be a 1b on offense but with game changing defensive impact. Then again the dude is 21 and we really don't know what he's going to become yet.

[Im Still Ballin]

Duncan for me. Just more refined due to his collegiate background. I like the reliability of his post-up game over Wemby's high-variance, hot-and-cold approach. Victor doesn't quite have a consistent two-point shot he can go to/self-create in the half-court set yet. And that matters more in the playoffs and in the clutch.

It's not a ridiculous comparison though. I don't get some of the other posters acting like it's disrespectful. We have to contextualize things by accounting for team quality and the strength of opposition. We're talking about how good/impactful a player is, and things like team record, playoff record, and individual accolades are only weak signals for that.


And when he does, he'll have the same 'Wemby proved me wrong, you guys don't understand basketball' bullshit he uses for Curry.

This is what Wemby IMO should be playing like stylistically:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT__LN7Sj7Q&ab_channel=iBeButler

And in some ways he kinda does, but with 9 threes because that's the league he's in.

Bosh had such a nice face-up game. Super slithery. Some of those dribble drives reminded me of Shai a little.

[Phoenix]

^ Well said, that was the kind of comparison points I was hoping for when I thought up the thread.

[MrFonzworth]

:lol

I killed him right there with that one.

[Carbine]

On the flip side though, does anybody think '98 or '99 Duncan would lead this Spurs team in this current western conference to a title?

Like I'm looking at the Spurs roster and after Wemby the leading scorers are Julian champagnie, Kelton Johnson, and Stephon Castle.

:biggums:

David Robinson was All NBA in the late 90s and had dominant top 5 superstar metrics in 1999. And they faced the Ewing-less 8 seed Knicks in the NBA Finals.

We have to apply some context here when talking about the team result in there respective cases.

The point is not what so and so could do with this Spurs roster, nobody in the history of the NBA could win a title with this group. Nobody.

[ShawkFactory]

^^^ He'll never be top 50 at those things though, so he won't win unless the NBA manufactures his teams just like another completely unfundamentally-sound player that couldn't develop great chemistry either (lebron)

And the reality is that you guys are hanging on the Curry example - that's all you have in a sea of correct predictions, such as predicting 10 years ago that the 3-point format would cause everyone to stop watching.. I was right about that and everything except Curry.

At least we’ve moved on from him being no different than Shawn Bradley. Baby steps.

[1987_Lakers]

At least we’ve moved on from him being no different than Shawn Bradley. Baby steps.

:oldlol:

[dankok8]

Give me Duncan because he was simply more polished on both ends. A lot of that can be the age gap and the college experience Timmy had. Scary to say but I don't think the gap between them as players is very wide. Wemby really is great. My main worries with him is that super thin frame will lead to lots of injuries and also that he's falling into a trap of shooting too many jumpers and should just use his size more.

[90sgoat]

Yeah this isn't close, Duncan came into the league as basically an MVP candidate.

I know the hype was massive for Wemby, but it was always based a lot more on potential than actual impact. I compare Wemby more to how Kevin Garnett also came into the league with massive hype but took several years to find his groove as an impact player.

Duncan had massive impact from day 1, which Wemby hasn't shown to the same level. Some of that is the game, a big simply can't impact the game as much as they could in the 90s, though Wemby is too skinny to have had the impact of Duncan in the 90s.

I'm still very high on Wemby, I definitely was too critical of him and I think people underestimate how good a passer he is. He is not Jokic, but he'll easily hit 5-6 assists in his prime if the game keeps being the same.

I see in Wemby the same as with Luka, the intelligence and bball education to actually identify and work on the things he needs to work on. This is very good, because it means he'll improve and not be a what-if.

[Phoenix]

Yeah this isn't close, Duncan came into the league as basically an MVP candidate.

I know the hype was massive for Wemby, but it was always based a lot more on potential than actual impact. I compare Wemby more to how Kevin Garnett also came into the league with massive hype but took several years to find his groove as an impact player.



Wemby is much closer to Duncan than he is to Garnett over his first two years. Even from a stat standpoint Garnett wasn't a 20/10 guy until 4 years into his career( for clarity, I'm not comparing Garnett's stats with Wembys, just saying that Garnett took a few more years than Duncan to get to 'that' level, and just through observation Wemby is ahead of Garnett two years into their respective careers).

I suppose, upon reflection, my question should have been 'how close are Duncan and Wemby two years into their careers' instead of 'who you got' because yes, I would take Duncan 98 and 99 as well for the reasons listed that aren't 'he won a chip'. He was more polished and disciplined, even though I think Wemby has the higher offensive potential. But there's too much variance with whether he's on or off from 3 on a given nigh t(or his jumper in general) and he can't really bang down low, whereas Duncan was just giving you a steady offensive output that held up in the playoffs. We need to see how Wemby does first under the same bright lights.

[Carbine]

Didn't you just say yesterday that you envision Wemby as a 1B option on a title contender/champion?

How is his offensive potential higher than Dunnans if that's what you think Wemby will be?

Duncan was the bonafide #1 guy. The offense was designed around him in '99 and one of the biggest carry jobs in 2003. He was the clear cut, best offensive player on their teams. He was also the #1 option in 2005 and 2007 regardless of what revisionist historians want to say regarding Manu in 2005 or Parker in 2007.

[Phoenix]

Didn't you just say yesterday that you envision Wemby as a 1B option on a title contender/champion?

How is his offensive potential higher than Dunnans if that's what you think Wemby will be?



The two concepts don't contradict each other. I think Wemby can be a 1b scorer on a title team and still wind up with an higher offensive ceiling that Duncan when it's all said and done. I also said we don't know ultimately what Wemby will become offensively, so there is nothing to say he doesn't end up a 1a on a title team either.

[999Guy]

I agree with the Duncan by a mile take, tho. It really is that simple. Duncan was so smart as a youngin. Wemby isn't a basketball genius. Maybe it won't matter in the end, but it does in the beginning.

Not a huge Duncan fan, either, but this is not a hard question. One time that the 'troll responses' are right.

-Smak

What? Wemby's instincts are really good for his age. And you make Duncan sound like CP3 or Jokic. He was an athletic freak with good fundamentals in his pre-knee injury years.

Wemby can see the floor way better than Duncan already.

I'll start with this: Wemby is flat out a better defender than Duncan was at this point in his career. Question comes down to offense.

[Street Hunger]

It'll eventually be Wemby an individual player, not sure about championships though

[Phoenix]

What? Wemby's instincts are really good for his age. And you make Duncan sound like CP3 or Jokic. He was an athletic freak with good fundamentals in his pre-knee injury years.

Wemby can see the floor way better than Duncan already.

I'll start with this: Wemby is flat out a better defender than Duncan was at this point in his career. Question comes down to offense.

He has GOAT defensive potential because he can cover both the perimeter and rim and he's never out of a play due to his length. I've seen him almost 'let' guys go around him and lull them into a false sense of security and then 2 steps he's at the rim and catching them from behind.

Duncan was a great shotblocker but he never seemed so intimidating that guys were literally afraid to venture into the paint. Wemby's length and mobility has you constantly looking over your shoulder.

[Phoenix]

It'll eventually be Wemby an individual player, not sure about championships though

With today's parity and player movement, that may be tough nowadays to match 5 chips and probably shouldn't be the expectation. The Warriors may be the last team for a while that was able to keep a core group together for a decade, cycle in complimentary pieces as the core aged and win multiple titles. Someone like Jokic is clearly as good as just about anyone who is going to end up with more championships under different circumstances.