Is there something I'm missing with +/-? I thought I understood it.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Take tonight's Lakers v. Dallas game tonight for example. Just the first quarter:
https://www.nba.com/game/lal-vs-dal-0022400504/play-by-play?period=Q1&latest=0


Lebron starts, leaves the game at 5:48. Lakers up 12-11. So that should be “+1”.

Lebron comes back in @ 2:14 remaining (still the 1st qtr). Lakers up 22-18 when he comes back in.
Quarter ends with the score 27-24 Lakers. So that should be “-1” as the Lakers lead was reduced by 1 pt from 2:14 – 0:00.

+1 plus -1 = 0
The box score says he was “+1” for the 1st quarter.


Unless the +/- isn't officially calculated until the player is pulled again / subbed out?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Quarter 2 starts with the score Lakers 30 Dallas 27.
Lebron leaves @ 7:18 with the score Lakers 36 Dallas 38.
So just that stretch = James -5

Lebron comes back @ 3:11 with the Lakers 48 Dallas 44.
Quarter ends with the score Lakers 50 Dallas 55.
So just that stretch = James -7

But the Box score, again, shows James +1 for the first quarter and -13 for the 2nd.

So it must be when a play subs out?

Qtr 1: Lebron +1 (12-11 when he leaves)
Qtr 1 through 2: (22-18 when he comes back in (QTR 1) leaves @ 7:18 (QTR 2) with the score Lakers 36 Dallas 38. So that "stretch" = -6
Second stretch of the 2nd quarter = -7.

So that must be how it works. It's not "hard divided" by the end of the quarter as there is no SUB, but there is a SUB for halftime.

Ok now I get it.

[Full Court]

1987_Lakers should be able to get to the bottom of this. He's an expert on advanced stats.

:roll::roll:

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I think I worked through it up above.
If a player is subbed in at the end of a quarter and subbed out next quarter, that stretch is part of the quarter ending +/-.
But not at halftime. The game is basically divided statistically into two halves.

[dankok8]

You didn't count free throws with the appropriate stint. When Lebron came back in the game with 2:14 left in the 1st quarter, the score was 22-19 because the Grimes' free throw was scored on a foul that occurred when Lebron wasn't in the game. Therefore +1 overall is correct for the 1st quarter.

Same issue in the 2nd quarter. When Lebron is subbed out at 7:18, the score is 37-38. The foul shot Finney made counts for Lebron because Lebron was on the court when the foul occurred. Thus Lebron was +6 in that stint and +13 overall for the 2nd quarter.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

That's interesting. So if that's true, a player could get fouled on a 3 pt shot and either team call a time-out. A sub is made, and if the fouled player is on the opposing team, the subbed in player wouldn't have those 3 freethrows count against him?
Same for the other way - if a person came in they wouldn't get credit for those 3 freethrows?

[ArbitraryWater]

That's interesting. So if that's true, a player could get fouled on a 3 pt shot and either team call a time-out. A sub is made, and if the fouled player is on the opposing team, the subbed in player wouldn't have those 3 freethrows count against him?
Same for the other way - if a person came in they wouldn't get credit for those 3 freethrows?

yes, its a flaw tbh.

[dankok8]

It's not a flaw. The free throws belong to the lineup that was on the floor when the foul occurred. Why would free throws made by his teammate count for Lebron if he wasn't on the floor when the foul occurred... And likewise why would opponent free throws made count against him if he wasn't on the floor when the foul occurred.

It's how it should be.

[dankok8]

That's interesting. So if that's true, a player could get fouled on a 3 pt shot and either team call a time-out. A sub is made, and if the fouled player is on the opposing team, the subbed in player wouldn't have those 3 freethrows count against him?
Same for the other way - if a person came in they wouldn't get credit for those 3 freethrows?

That's right. Only those players on the floor when the foul occurred can get the free throws either for their own team or for the opposing team.