The Only Accurate MVP Rankings

[StrongLurk]

My list is the only accurate list.

1. SGA (40 GP)
2. Jokic (34 GP)
3. Tatum (37 GP)
4. KAT (38 GP)
5. Donovan Mitchell (38)
6. Alperen Sengun (40 GP)

That's it so far. No other names like Giannis, Anthony Davis, Wemby matter because their team records aren't good enough. Jokic gets an extra boost because he's the best player in the league and playing at a top 10 all time peak. Everyone else on the list are basically the best players on teams with the best records and they have played a lot of games. Again, MVP always factors heavily into things like team record, games played, and even narratives. There are a few exceptions of MVP winners with not great team records because they did something historic. MVP does not "best player in the league", although it's very common for the MVP to go to a top 3-4 player.

[SouBeachTalents]

My list is the only accurate list.
Lol

[Carbine]

It's clearly Jokic in my opinion. He's inarguably the best player in the world right now and his team record is definitely good enough for Voters to vote for him.

I think it would be a travesty not to recognize a goat level season like this from Jokic. His season is offensively as good as anyone in the history of the NBA right now.

[StrongLurk]

Lol

You can disagree with the order, but do you disagree with the names? I could leave off Sengun if we want to get rid of the worst player up there, but he has played 40 games, is the Rockets best player, and the Rockets have the 4th best record in the league which is impressive. I think he deserves to be included.

[StrongLurk]

It's clearly Jokic in my opinion. He's inarguably the best player in the world right now and his team record is definitely good enough for Voters to vote for him.

I think it would be a travesty not to recognize a goat level season like this from Jokic. His season is offensively as good as anyone in the history of the NBA right now.

Lol what? SGA is the second best player in the league this year and his record is 34-6 compared to Jokic who is 24-16. SGA has also played 6 more games than Jokic.

Come on man, SGA is the CLEAR favorite. If MVP just meant best player in the world, then MJ and Lebron would have 10 of them.

[1987_Lakers]

Jokic should have 4 MVPs right now and should be the favorite for getting another one, but I feel they will give it to SGA.

[StrongLurk]

Jokic should have 4 MVPs right now and should be the favorite for getting another one, but I feel they will give it to SGA.

Explain how Jokic is the favorite? SGA is second best player in the league and has a FAR better team record than Jokic and has played 6 more games.

SGA is literally putting up 30.6 PER, 64.2 TS%, .312 WS/48 (highest in the league), 11.8 BPM and is an elite defender too. What is up with everyone just ignoring how insanely good SGA has been this year?

[1987_Lakers]

Explain how Jokic is the favorite? SGA is second best player in the league and has a FAR better team record than Jokic and has played 6 more games.

I never said Jokic was the favorite, if the season ended right now it would go to SGA, but I would personally give it to Jokic just because he is so far ahead of anyone right now as a player.

[1987_Lakers]

It honestly feels like Jokic will go down as one of the most underrated players ever by the time he is retired. The lack of attention he gets from media and fans is disturbing.

[RRR3]

I never said Jokic was the favorite, if the season ended right now it would go to SGA, but I would personally give it to Jokic just because he is so far ahead of anyone right now as a player.
Based on what? Plenty of impact data has SGA ahead of Jokic.

[1987_Lakers]

Based on what? Plenty of impact data has SGA ahead of Jokic.

Is this a serious question?

[StrongLurk]

I never said Jokic was the favorite, if the season ended right now it would go to SGA, but I would personally give it to Jokic just because he is so far ahead of anyone right now as a player.

Jokic isn't so far ahead of everyone. SGA is absolutely a close second best player. I am a huge Jokic stan but SGA is having an all-time great season. You might as well switch SGA for Michael Jordan and the Thunder for the late 90's Bulls, and you wouldn't notice any difference.

SGA is the second best player in the league this year and his record is 34-6 compared to Jokic who is 24-16. SGA has also played 6 more games than Jokic.

SGA is literally putting up 30.6 PER, 64.2 TS%, .312 WS/48 (highest in the league), 11.8 BPM and is an elite defender too.

[RRR3]

Is this a serious question?
Yeah? Are you paying attention to SGA this year? 31.6/5.4/6.0/2.0/1.1 on 64.2 TS%, leading the NBA in PPG as well as impact stats EPM and LEBRON. He also plays great defense, Jokic is a turnstile.

[1987_Lakers]

People giving SGA the award are the same people who would have given Karl Malone the award over MJ in '97. Pretty sure Malone led MJ in every advanced statistic that year as well.

[RRR3]

People giving SGA the award are the same people who would have given Karl Malone the award over MJ in '97. Pretty sure Malone led MJ in every advanced statistic that year as well.
He did not. Jordan led Malone in RAPM (by a massive amount), BPM, WS/48 and VORP in 97. You're talking out of your ass here.

[StrongLurk]

People giving SGA the award are the same people who would have given Karl Malone the award over MJ in '97. Pretty sure Malone led MJ in every advanced statistic that year as well.

Bro, The Thunder have won 85% of their games and the Nuggets have only won 60%. That is a massive gap.

In 1997, The Bulls won 84% of their games and the Jazz won 78%, which is a MUCH closer gap, which makes the statistical comparisons more important in an MJ/Malone debate.

[1987_Lakers]

He did not. Jordan led Malone in RAPM (by a massive amount), BPM, WS/48 and VORP in 97. You're talking out of your ass here.

Who had a higher PER? Regardless none of these advanced stats were used in 97.

My point being is the weaker player of the two is the slight favorite just like it was in 97. History will call this a robbery because Jokic is arguably having his best season and has a top 10 peak ever. SGA isn’t on his level.

[RRR3]

Who had a higher PER? Regardless none of these advanced stats were used in 97.

My point being is the weaker player of the two is the slight favorite just like it was in 97. History will call this a robbery because Jokic is arguably having his best season and has a top 10 peak ever. SGA isn’t on his level.
So your comeback is Karl Malone was ahead in a stat that thinks Enes Kanter was a great player? Ignoring all the stats that say MJ was better?

Why is SGA not on his level? Because you say so? Literally all the data says they're on the same level this year.

[1987_Lakers]

Bro, The Thunder have won 85% of their games and the Nuggets have only won 60%. That is a massive gap.

In 1997, The Bulls won 84% of their games and the Jazz won 78%, which is a MUCH closer gap, which makes the statistical comparisons more important in an MJ/Malone debate.

Who cares. MJ won MVP in 88 while Magic and Bird won more games. MJ was better than both and should have won it. Just like Jokic should win it now.

Fans and media put way too much stock in team wins for MVP. If you are the best player in the league and have at least a top 4 record in your conference you should get the award every year.

[StrongLurk]

Who cares. MJ won MVP in 88 while Magic and Bird won more games. MJ was better than both and should have won it. Just like Jokic should win it now.

Fans and media put way too much stock in team wins for MVP. If you are the best player in the league and have at least a top 4 record in your conference you should get the award every year.

Did MJ have a 25% gap in W/L record like Jokic has compared to SGA? No he didn't.

Also I think Magic and Bird did have good arguments for MVP over MJ in 1988, but you can argue MJ did something "historic" my winning DPOY. Narratives also matter too, although you can argue they really shouldn't. So maybe MJ snagged an MVP he shouldn't have gotten in 1988, but I think MJ should've won MVP in 1997 over Malone...

[iamgine]

Jokic is performing slightly better than SGA but it's very close. Considering SGA has played more games I wouldn't call it undeserved if he gets the MVP.

[RRR3]

Who cares. MJ won MVP in 88 while Magic and Bird won more games. MJ was better than both and should have won it. Just like Jokic should win it now.

Fans and media put way too much stock in team wins for MVP. If you are the best player in the league and have at least a top 4 record in your conference you should get the award every year.
What's the evidence Jokic is clearly better THIS SEASON? All you've offered so far is your opinion, that's not a good argument.

[StrongLurk]

Jokic is performing slightly better than SGA but it's very close. Considering SGA has played more games I wouldn't call it undeserved if he gets the MVP.

Played more games and you know...a 25% higher win rate than Jokic which is an enormous gap. SGA winning would be completely deserved at this point of the season.

[90sgoat]

It's clearly Jokic in my opinion. He's inarguably the best player in the world right now and his team record is definitely good enough for Voters to vote for him.

I think it would be a travesty not to recognize a goat level season like this from Jokic. His season is offensively as good as anyone in the history of the NBA right now.

How have people missed he's shooting 47% from 3?

47% on a career high number of attempts, it's an all time great season, career high points, career high rebounds, career high assists, career high steals, career high shooting.

[StrongLurk]

How have people missed he's shooting 47% from 3?

47% on a career high number of attempts, it's an all time great season, career high points, career high rebounds, career high assists, career high steals, career high shooting.

No one has missed these facts. Even with the increase in 3-point%, Jokic and SGA have the EXACT same TS%, which is 64.2%.

The real question you should ask is how have people missed SGA's incredible season and absurd 34-6 record?

[90sgoat]

Man, f@ck the TS%, it's a stat that makes foul baiters look good.

[StrongLurk]

Man, f@ck the TS%, it's a stat that makes foul baiters look good.

Jokic is an 80% free throw shooter and SGA is 90%...it's not like SGA shoots worse than Jokic and get's double the free throw attempts.

SGA is nearly the foul baiter that guys like Embiid and Harden are, so it's really not a relevant point that you've made.

[Neal Romer]

Yeah? Are you paying attention to SGA this year? 31.6/5.4/6.0/2.0/1.1 on 64.2 TS%, leading the NBA in PPG as well as impact stats EPM and LEBRON. He also plays great defense, Jokic is a turnstile.

I'm pretty sure a lot of 'impact data' stats take team result into the equation to some extent. Which is a questionable way to evaluate individual players.

Also, if you wanna take advanced stats, Jokic is not a turnstile. Lets stay consistent.

Also, youre an ugly loser and thus resent Jokic, as youve made clear. So your input is pointless.

[ShawkFactory]

The 97 MVP for Malone wasn't some crazy outlandish thing. Yea...MJ probably should have won it but I think the Jazz went something like 41-5 to close out the year so that really helps in the narrative department.

SGA is truly having an incredible year and if he wins the MVP it will be very well deserved. I don't know that he'll keep it up quite like this, but I also don't know that Jokic will continue shooting near 50% from 3 either.

[1987_Lakers]

So your comeback is Karl Malone was ahead in a stat that thinks Enes Kanter was a great player? Ignoring all the stats that say MJ was better?

Why is SGA not on his level? Because you say so? Literally all the data says they're on the same level this year.

You literally used win shares per 48 to back your case. A stat that has Gobert top 10 all time.

[L.Kizzle]

Jokic not winning no more MVPs until he another title.

[RRR3]

You literally used win shares per 48 to back your case. A stat that has Gobert top 10 all time.
What? That was just because you claimed Malone was ahead of MJ in "pretty much every advanced stat" in 97, not because I use that stat in my analysis. I listed multiple other stats, incluing RAPM which is impact and not box score based like the other ones. Your only response was the widely discredited PER, which even if we count as a good stat, would still make you wrong because you said Malone led in almost every advanced stat, not just one.

You're scrambling and trying to deflect because you have no argument for Jokic being clearly better than SGA besides "trust me muh eye test"

[tpols]

1987 is actually providing a good analogy. Karl was slightly better than Jordan in the regular season but everybody knew MJ was better and would outplay him H2H in the playoffs.

It's similar for SGA vs Yolk in that regard and that's not a diss to SGA, whose been awesome in his own right. Just like Malone was.

But there can only be 1 winner.

[RRR3]

1987 is actually providing a good analogy. Karl was slightly better than Jordan in the regular season but everybody knew MJ was better and would outplay him H2H in the playoffs.

It's similar for SGA vs Yolk in that regard and that's not a diss to SGA, whose been awesome in his own right. Just like Malone was.

But there can only be 1 winner.
You're just arguing for SGA here because MVP is a regular season award :lol

[tpols]

You're just arguing for SGA here because MVP is a regular season award :lol

Im... literally arguing for Jokic as being the better player in that post. Regardless of media accolade. Just like MJ > Karl despite losing the MVP award.

[StrongLurk]

1987 is actually providing a good analogy. Karl was slightly better than Jordan in the regular season but everybody knew MJ was better and would outplay him H2H in the playoffs.

It's similar for SGA vs Yolk in that regard and that's not a diss to SGA, whose been awesome in his own right. Just like Malone was.

But there can only be 1 winner.

Who you think is the current MVP favorite and who are your top 6 players in the race?

[RRR3]

Im... literally arguing for Jokic as being the better player in that post. Regardless of media accolade. Just like MJ > Karl despite losing the MVP award.
Except you said Malone was better in the regular season (I would disagree, but this is what you said) and you claimed that was analogous to the current situation with SGA and Jokic, implying you think SGA is better in the regular season. The award is for who is better in the regular season. Try to keep up, champ.

[tpols]

Who you think is the current MVP favorite and who are your top 6 players in the race?


SGA is currently at -350 odds to win the MVP while Jokic is only at +275. A massive discrepancy.

The next runner ups are Giannis and Tatum at +5000 so that means it's a two legged race SGA is ahead of in the present moment and deservingly

[StrongLurk]

SGA is currently at -350 odds to win the MVP while Jokic is only at +275. A massive discrepancy.

The next runner ups are Giannis and Tatum at +5000 so that means it's a two legged race SGA is ahead of in the present moment and deservingly

Giannis is a joke being included this year.

To be fair, it truly is a 2-man race this year between SGA/Jokic, but SGA should be the clear favorite with a 34-6 record AND he hasn't missed a single game.

I've yet to see anyone come up with a more accurate MVP list than the one in my OP.

[iamgine]

Played more games and you know...a 25% higher win rate than Jokic which is an enormous gap. SGA winning would be completely deserved at this point of the season.

Dont really care about the winning more part cause SGA has much better teammates.

[StrongLurk]

Dont really care about the winning more part cause SGA has much better teammates.

Doesnt matter if you care or not, team record is a major factor in who wins MVP and SGA is the central cause of the Thunder's insane record. Go cry about it.

[iamgine]

Doesnt matter if you care or not, team record is a major factor in who wins MVP and SGA is the central cause of the Thunder's insane record. Go cry about it.

Still dont care

[StrongLurk]

Still dont care

No prob, that just makes you one more person who can't give a more accurate MVP ranking than my OP.

Next up.

[ShawkFactory]

No prob, that just makes you one more person who can't give a more accurate MVP ranking than my OP.

Next up.

I mean your MVP rankings aren’t anything bold or crazy :lol

Outside of Sengun I’m pretty sure your top 5 are almost the exact FanDuel odds order.

[StrongLurk]

I mean your MVP rankings aren’t anything bold or crazy :lol

Outside of Sengun I’m pretty sure your top 5 are almost the exact FanDuel odds order.

Every MVP list I have seen literally has Giannis at 3rd, Wemby at 5 or 6, and goes 10 players long which is a total joke. Giannis, Wemby, AD shouldn't even be mentioned since their team records disqualify them.

Edit: Fanduel has Giannis at 3 (ridiculous) and Wemby at 5 (Spurs have a losing record)...so yeah FanDuel's list is trash. Tatum and Kat clearly deserve the 3/4 spots. Mitchell and Sengun are a tier below, but they both have incredible team records, way higher than expected on that front, so they get the 5/6 spots since they are the best players on their teams.

If we are being honest though, we have a 2-man race between SGA/Jokic, and SGA has the CLEAR number 1 spot.

[ShawkFactory]

Every MVP list I have seen literally has Giannis at 3rd, Wemby at 5 or 6, and goes 10 players long which is a total joke. Giannis, Wemby, AD shouldn't even be mentioned since their team records disqualify them.

Edit: Fanduel has Giannis at 3 (ridiculous) and Wemby at 5 (Spurs have a losing record)...so yeah FanDuel's list is trash. Tatum and Kat clearly deserve the 3/4 spots. Mitchell and Sengun are a tier below, but they both have incredible team records, way higher than expected on that front, so they get the 5/6 spots since they are the best players on their teams.

If we are being honest though, we have a 2-man race between SGA/Jokic, and SGA has the CLEAR number 1 spot.

It’s not about what’s “deserved” right now though. It’s a predictive number and the Bucks have been playing well since the poor start.

[StrongLurk]

It’s not about what’s “deserved” right now though. It’s a predictive number and the Bucks have been playing well since the poor start.

Predictions are useless though, any player can get a season ending injury at any time. We can only go by what's happened up to this point in the season. So my list still stands as most accurate.

[iamgine]

No prob, that just makes you one more person who can't give a more accurate MVP ranking than my OP.

Next up.

Anyone can make claim like that.

[ShawkFactory]

Predictions are useless though, any player can get a season ending injury at any time. We can only go by what's happened up to this point in the season. So my list still stands as most accurate.

If you want, go for it. That's not how betting odds work though :confusedshrug:

[StrongLurk]

If you want, go for it. That's not how betting odds work though :confusedshrug:

We aren't talking about betting odds, that's an entirely different conversation :roll:

My OP is talking about who are the MVP race leaders at this time in the season.

[StrongLurk]

My list is the only accurate list.

1. SGA (40 GP)
2. Jokic (34 GP)
3. Tatum (37 GP)
4. KAT (38 GP)
5. Donovan Mitchell (38)
6. Alperen Sengun (40 GP)

That's it so far. No other names like Giannis, Anthony Davis, Wemby matter because their team records aren't good enough. Jokic gets an extra boost because he's the best player in the league and playing at a top 10 all time peak. Everyone else on the list are basically the best players on teams with the best records and they have played a lot of games. Again, MVP always factors heavily into things like team record, games played, and even narratives. There are a few exceptions of MVP winners with not great team records because they did something historic. MVP does not "best player in the league", although it's very common for the MVP to go to a top 3-4 player.

Updating the list since it's been about a month since the OP.

Right now it's just a 2-man race between Jokic and Shai. Both OKC and Denver are 8-2 in their last ten games. Jokic is destroying every game with huge triple doubles and Shai dropped multiple 50-point games.

This MVP race between Shai/Jokic is very underrated, definitely a historic battle. Jokic has closed the gap since my OP in my opinion and it's a 50/50 tie for MVP in my opinion. Denver has caught up a little bit to OKC's winning percentage and Jokic has now only played 3 less games than Shai (it was 6 less games a month ago).

Either way it's an amazing battle.

[Duffy Pratt]

Updating the list since it's been about a month since the OP.

Right now it's just a 2-man race between Jokic and Shai. Both OKC and Denver are 8-2 in their last ten games. Jokic is destroying every game with huge triple doubles and Shai dropped multiple 50-point games.

This MVP race between Shai/Jokic is very underrated, definitely a historic battle. Jokic has closed the gap since my OP in my opinion and it's a 50/50 tie for MVP in my opinion. Denver has caught up a little bit to OKC's winning percentage and Jokic has now only played 3 less games than Shai (it was 6 less games a month ago).

Either way it's an amazing battle.

It’s only a battle if it’s an award the “combatants” are fighting for. Jokic definitely isn’t; he has sat out the 4th in 12 games already - 11 times because of a blow out lead, and once because the game is out of reach. And I don’t have the impression that SGA is either. Neither of these guys are like Embiid.

[Neal Romer]

Look, if you want to have a SERIOUS discussion about the MVP award this year, then it needs to start and end with Lebron James. His team is beyond shit and he's carrying like an absolute legend. The next closest couple of guys will have to have unfathomably productive ends to the season to even remotely challenge the King.

You got that?

Now DEAL WITH IT.

[StrongLurk]

My list is the only accurate list.

1. SGA (40 GP)
2. Jokic (34 GP)
3. Tatum (37 GP)
4. KAT (38 GP)
5. Donovan Mitchell (38)
6. Alperen Sengun (40 GP)

That's it so far. No other names like Giannis, Anthony Davis, Wemby matter because their team records aren't good enough. Jokic gets an extra boost because he's the best player in the league and playing at a top 10 all time peak. Everyone else on the list are basically the best players on teams with the best records and they have played a lot of games. Again, MVP always factors heavily into things like team record, games played, and even narratives. There are a few exceptions of MVP winners with not great team records because they did something historic. MVP does not "best player in the league", although it's very common for the MVP to go to a top 3-4 player.

Bumping my OP. Shai and Jokic still top 2 obviously.

I still agree with my initial ranking of Tatum as the 3rd MVP candidate. I don't know why Giannis keeps holding that spot when Tatum is a defending champ probably have his best regular season, and has TWENTY more wins than Giannis.

[FKAri]

Bumping my OP. Shai and Jokic still top 2 obviously.

I still agree with my initial ranking of Tatum as the 3rd MVP candidate. I don't know why Giannis keeps holding that spot when Tatum is a defending champ probably have his best regular season, and has TWENTY more wins than Giannis.

Because he's less valuable than Giannis.

[StrongLurk]

Because he's less valuable than Giannis.

Well Giannis is a better player, but Tatum is clearly a top 10 player this year and his team has 20 more wins which definitely offsets what Giannis is doing.

[hold this L]

I would put Tatum 3rd, Giannis 4th and Mitchell 5th. After that, it's just a participation nomination award.

[FKAri]

Well Giannis is a better player, but Tatum is clearly a top 10 player this year and his team has 20 more wins which definitely offsets what Giannis is doing.

You're right that this is how voters think. But that's stupid. There's a difference between MVP and best player. But it shouldn't be as simple as "one of the best players in the league on one of the best teams in the league". Is your ranking of who's likely to win or who's your vote MVP?