Lebron signed with the Miami Heat in 2011. Cavaliers only won 19 games

[Lebron23]

From 61 wins in 2010. To 63 losses in 2011.

[Full Court]

Strange that a Lebron fanboy would bring up 2011, seeing how that was the year Lebron had the worst choke job of all time. 2011 was the year Lebron lost any shot at ever being the GOAT.

[3ba11]

Cavs lost their entire starting 5 in 2011, not just Lebron.. They lost Mo, Varejao, Shaq, Zydrunas, and Delonte, which was 52 ppg compared to Lebron's 30 ppg... But we all know that team-hoppers like Lebron GUT teams and leave them worse than when they arrived.. The true sign of a loser.. It's a statistical fact that elite roster construction is impossible with high-scoring ball-dominators like Lebron, since their skillset reduces everyone's assists and increases their assisted rate (turns everyone into spot-up shooter).

[MrFonzworth]

Jason Terry outscored LeBron James in the Finals that year too.

[1987_Lakers]

Greatest floor raiser of all time. Cavs funny enough won 19 games in 2019 when LeBron left, after making the Finals the year before.

[SouBeachTalents]

Meanwhile Jordan retired a month before the season started and the Bulls won 55 games without him.

[Full Court]

Greatest floor raiser of all time. Cavs funny enough won 19 games in 2019 when LeBron left, after making the Finals the year before.

He's sure lowered the ceiling on the Lakers for the last five years.

[1987_Lakers]

He's sure lowered the ceiling on the Lakers for the last five years.

He won us a title in the last 5 years, I will forever be grateful.

[tpols]

Meanwhile Jordan retired a month before the season started and the Bulls won 55 games without him.


Big difference between leaving the team as 3peat champion and jumping ship after quitting in the playoffs like Lebron did in the 2010 semis vs Boston. And losing the majority of your starters too. Context is important.

[SouBeachTalents]

Big difference between leaving the team as 3peat champion and jumping ship after quitting in the playoffs like Lebron did in the 2010 semis vs Boston. And losing the majority of your starters too. Context is important.
Majority of the starters? They only lost ancient Shaq who was irrelevant in Boston. They retained the rest of their starters & players who were in their playoff rotation.

[tpols]

Majority of the starters? They only lost ancient Shaq who was irrelevant in Boston. They retained the rest of their starters & players who were in their playoff rotation.


J.J. Hickson and Anthony Parker were the only Cavaliers to start more than 40 games in 2011 for Cleveland. Coach was fired and management in absolute shambles after "The Decision" as well.

While the Bulls still had full time Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, great role players BJ Armstrong even made the All Star team. Phil Jackson still there of course.

It's just... beyond disingenuous to pretend like the two situations were alike. Mike left the team a Champion with all its core still in tact. Lebron jumped ship and left disaster in it's wake.

The Captain is supposed to go down with the ship.

[Hey Yo]

Jamison played 56gms, starting 38 while avg. 33mp.

[3ba11]

05' HUGHES.................. 21.6 PER... 0.157 WS/48... 3.7 VORP... 4.3 BPM... 22/6/5.... 1st Team All-D
90' PIPPEN.................... 16.3 PER... 0.087 WS/48... 3.0 VORP... 1.8 BPM... 16/6/5.... No All-D




Greatest floor raiser of all time. Cavs funny enough won 19 games in 2019 when LeBron left, after making the Finals the year before.


Love was hurt in 2019, so any team that loses their top 2 scorers will collapse.

And Lebron's first playoff teams in 06' and 07' had the reigning East all-star center and an acquisition that was better than 1990 Pippen on both sides of the ball (above), along with better defenses than the 1st three-peat Bulls - MJ would easily 3-peat with all that help, so Lebron's 1 Finals appearance isn't raising the floor much by comparison...

Furthermore, the 07' Spurs showed that the East was so weak that a 22 on 35% player won it (and 6 TO's).. After getting exposed in the 07' Finals with a cast that MJ would 3-peat with, Lebron's "floor-raising" won 45 games in 2008 before receiving the all-star spacing that his stiff arm needs to win 60 & MVP (just like 13').

[3ba11]

05' HUGHES.................. 21.6 PER... 0.157 WS/48... 3.7 VORP... 4.3 BPM... 22/6/5.... 1st Team All-D
90' PIPPEN.................... 16.3 PER... 0.087 WS/48... 3.0 VORP... 1.8 BPM... 16/6/5.... No All-D




Majority of the starters? They only lost ancient Shaq who was irrelevant in Boston. They retained the rest of their starters & players who were in their playoff rotation.


They lost PILLARS of the 7-year organic run, including Zydrunas, Varejao, Delonte, Mo, and another starter in Shaq - this will rip apart any team and force them to start over from scratch.

And again, Lebron needed 3 seasons to make the playoffs, so his first playoff teams in 06' and 07' were veteran high seeds that included the reigning East all-star center and an acquisition that was better than 1990 Pippen on both sides of the ball (above), along with better defenses than the 1st three-peat Bulls - MJ would easily 3-peat with all that help, so Lebron's 1 Finals appearance isn't raising the floor by comparison...

Furthermore, the 07' Spurs showed that the East was so weak that a 22 on 35% player won it (and 6 TO's).. The conference was so weak that Lebron, Iverson, Kidd and Dwight won it with 25 ppg or less for the Eastern Playoffs - MJ never averaged less than 27 in any series and 25 would certainly result in the 91-98' Bulls having an early exit from the playoffs each year.

[MrFonzworth]

Jason Terry outscored LeBron James in the Finals that year too.

Has anyone figured this shit out yet?

[3ba11]

Has anyone figured this shit out yet?


It's funny that people say that team assists don't matter, except every playoff series that Lebron ever lost shows deficits in team assists, except the 2011 Finals.. So the one series that he lost while out-assisting the opponent is widely known as the greatest choke of all time

Championship teams average 8th in team assists since 1980, but high-scoring ball-dominators like Lebron lower teammates' assists while increasing teammates' assisted rate or spot-up role.. By turning everyone into spot-up shooter, high-scoring ball-dominators prevent elite roster construction, so they can't be the leading scorer for the best basketball (dynasties or dominant champions), aka 0 for 12.. Since ball-dominators cannot produce the best basketball, they're inferior to the best of other skillsets that can (jumpshooters and bigs), which puts Lebron out of the top 10 all-time.