The problem with "trust the science" (short video from 1996)

[Doomsday Dallas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn8EkqOxpvg

[j3lademaster]

Good lord, I'm trying. I really am, but this is just putting me to sleep. Can you summarize with some time stamps? Thanks.

[jstern]

Extremely high IQ prediction, based on the reality we just witness. It's always amazing when someone can make such a prediction, but it was probably based on easily noticeable patterns that he saw. Patterns that have always been part of human society and will continue to be part of human society, in all countries, for tens of thousands of years, if there are still humans around.

[warriorfan]

Good lord, I'm trying. I really am, but this is just putting me to sleep. Can you summarize with some time stamps? Thanks.

He talks about how guys like you will advocate welding apartment doors shut over a virus with a 99% survival rate.

[BurningHammer]

I rather trust an actual smart man over our resident tinfoil hatter and Mr. Meth Hominem. :roll:

[Overdrive]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn8EkqOxpvg

#1: You're citing a scientist to put distrust into science while not even understanding what he's saying.

#2: What he's actually saying is that blind trust in science is antiscientific in itself. Science means questioning the status quo of any discovery done before. The problem is that alot of believers of science have just as little clue about what constitutes to science as doubters have.

#3: The mistake alot of conspiracy nuts like you though is that you think questioning in itself is already dismantling any theory or thesis. For disproving such you have to lay down evidence yourself.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Actually the video had less to do with Science and more to do with Skepticism.

[BurningHammer]

Actually the video had less to do with Science and more to do with Skepticism.

I'm very skeptic on Trump and his cronies. :ohwell:

[ShawkFactory]

Actually the video had less to do with Science and more to do with Skepticism.

Skepticism in theory is necessary but the issue is that a lot of skeptics form together and outwardly oppose science in the same manner with nothing to actually back it themselves.

It’s the same hive mind thinking they laugh at but they’re even less qualified to have opinions. Most “skeptics” aren’t actually informed. It’s just a way for them to feel important or smart.

Of course that isn’t across the board but it’s a real thing.

[Overdrive]

Actually the video had less to do with Science and more to do with Skepticism.

Q.E.D.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Skepticism in theory is necessary but the issue is that a lot of skeptics form together and outwardly oppose science in the same manner with nothing to actually back it themselves.

It’s the same hive mind thinking they laugh at but they’re even less qualified to have opinions. Most “skeptics” aren’t actually informed. It’s just a way for them to feel important or smart.

Of course that isn’t across the board but it’s a real thing.


Well in this instance I was generally applying it to the entire Covid19 crisis along with the vaccine.

Some of you mfers had zero skepticism and still do.

Y'all just went along with the Government, Fauci, and CNN.... and for anybody that was skeptical... got crucified.


There was plenty of good reasons to be skeptical... not to just oppose "science"... but to oppose people in extreme positions of power.

"trust the science" was like saying "trust the elite"

[ShawkFactory]

Well in this instance I was generally applying it to the entire Covid19 crisis along with the vaccine.

Some of you mfers had zero skepticism and still do.

Y'all just went along with the Government, Fauci, and CNN.... and for anybody that was skeptical... got crucified.


There was plenty of good reasons to be skeptical... not to just oppose "science"... but to oppose people in extreme positions of power.

"trust the science" was like saying "trust the elite"

Well yea Covid was a different beast. But you know the general type I’m talking about.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Well yea Covid was a different beast. But you know the general type I’m talking about.


Most “skeptics” aren’t actually informed. It’s just a way for them to feel important or smart.


What's the "general type" you are referring to?

There are good reasons not to trust the Government, Corporate America, and The Mainstream Media... and that's largely in part due to what we've seen in the past.


You don't exactly need to be informed to be skeptical, because having 100% trust in those three entities is foolish to begin with.

You should start with skepticism, gather all the facts and get informed, and then form an opinion what is bull$hit and what is truth... Instead we see a lot of blind faith.



Secondly... who is the authority on information? The Mainstream Media?

If a person is gathering all their information from CNN to formulate an opinion or stance on a particular subject... would you call that person informed?

[ShawkFactory]

What's the "general type" you are referring to?

There are good reasons not to trust the Government, Corporate America, and The Mainstream Media... and that's largely in part due to what we've seen in the past.


You don't exactly need to be informed to be skeptical, because having 100% trust in those three entities is foolish to begin with.

You should start with skepticism, gather all the facts and get informed, and then form an opinion what is bull$hit and what is truth... Instead we see a lot of blind faith.



Secondly... who is the authority on information? The Mainstream Media?

If a person is gathering all their information from CNN to formulate an opinion or stance on a particular subject... would you call that person informed?

This is the entirety of it. Certain skeptics claim to be smarter and have more information when many of them don't.

It seems like you agree, but someone who is informed is a person who takes the time to look into things. It's really that simple and it has nothing to do with any individual source.

Blind faith is a real thing of course. But so is blind skepticism. It's a different side of the same coin and it's not necessarily to be commended just by the nature of it if you don't actually put in the work.

[Overdrive]

What's the "general type" you are referring to?

There are good reasons not to trust the Government, Corporate America, and The Mainstream Media... and that's largely in part due to what we've seen in the past.


You don't exactly need to be informed to be skeptical, because having 100% trust in those three entities is foolish to begin with.

You should start with skepticism, gather all the facts and get informed, and then form an opinion what is bull$hit and what is truth... Instead we see a lot of blind faith.



Secondly... who is the authority on information? The Mainstream Media?

If a person is gathering all their information from CNN to formulate an opinion or stance on a particular subject... would you call that person informed?

Neither of the entities you named have any scientific basis. So the way corporations, the media or the government acted in the past made you skeptical of science in itself?

The problem is that all three of them can abuse science to manipulate the public into behaviour that is favourable to them and their agenda and that's what Sagan is saying here. If you don't understand how science works, but trust in it you're bound to be manipulated, not by science itself but by those who use science to communicate their agenda.

You don't have to be 100% informed to be skeptical, but to give your skepticism any merit you have to be informed. Being skeptical and not informed just will enable you to be manipulated by others than the former.

You're talking about gathering facts, but all I see you and your ilk gathering facts from is youtube and such. Of course CNN shouldn't be your only source. Best practice is taking different media outlets from opposing parts of the political spectrum and than looking into their sources.

Taking "facts" from some random youtubers, because you don't trust msm is quite comical. What makes youtubers more trustworthy? They're just as opinionated as most journalists, but less informed themselves.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Neither of the entities you named have any scientific basis. So the way corporations, the media or the government acted in the past made you skeptical of science in itself?

The problem is that all three of them can abuse science to manipulate the public into behaviour that is favourable to them and their agenda and that's what Sagan is saying here. If you don't understand how science works, but trust in it you're bound to be manipulated, not by science itself but by those who use science to communicate their agenda.

You don't have to be 100% informed to be skeptical, but to give your skepticism any merit you have to be informed. Being skeptical and not informed just will enable you to be manipulated by others than the former.


Yea that's the problem here.... The public at large isn't educated enough to have any kind of on "informed" opinion on some of the issues surrounding science & technology.... and they never will. The issues at hand are so complex that you're never going to understand how the science works.

So who is it that we are depending on to inform us? Government, Corporations, MSM.... so like I said, "trust the science" in regards to Covid19 really translated into "trust the elite".

So my question is this: Who was really doing us a disservice when it came to Covid19? The uniformed skeptics or the blind faith believers?... I think the answer is obvious.




You're talking about gathering facts, but all I see you and your ilk gathering facts from is youtube and such. Of course CNN shouldn't be your only source. Best practice is taking different media outlets from opposing parts of the political spectrum and than looking into their sources.

Taking "facts" from some random youtubers, because you don't trust msm is quite comical. What makes youtubers more trustworthy? They're just as opinionated as most journalists, but less informed themselves.

Youtube and Twitter are considered media outlets... and not every person that posts their opinion on that media outlet is living in their parents basement with a tinfoil hat on. This is why censorship became such a hot topic


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St0TlLHdrck