TRADE: Luka Doncic to Lakers, Anthony Davis to Mavericks

[ArbitraryWater]

I don't see Luka changing his attitude or his work-ethic in L.A. In my opinion, nothing changes. Only that L.A. has to deal with the headache now.

what headache? what attitude?

luka was very liked by teammates, never clashed with anyone, even got along with Kyrie and got that dude happy... dude is a gym nut.

Youre making shit up, weirdo.

[Patrick Chewing]

what headache? what attitude?

luka was very liked by teammates, never clashed with anyone, even got along with Kyrie and got that dude happy... dude is a gym nut.

Youre making shit up, weirdo.

:facepalm

The toll road of denial is a long and dangerous one.

[Full Court]

what headache? what attitude?

luka was very liked by teammates, never clashed with anyone, even got along with Kyrie and got that dude happy... dude is a gym nut.

Youre making shit up, weirdo.

There was obviously something going on or the Mavs wouldn't have launched him.

[rawimpact]

I agree with charles barkley's take

not sure how this works right now with lebron and luka both needing the ball. The lakers are worse off vs with Davis.

Lebron obv. has a no-trade clause so I doubt he gets traded

This is purely long-term investment but they need to sway Luka enough to sign the extension... this isnt a sign and trade.

[tontoz]

With a day to think about this the worse it looks. This had to be an emotional/personal decision by someone high up with the Mavs.

[90sgoat]

With a day to think about this the worse it looks. This had to be an emotional/personal decision by someone high up with the Mavs.

Maybe Luka stands with Palestine.

[ArbitraryWater]

There was obviously something going on or the Mavs wouldn't have launched him.

so why do you assume lukas personality was the problem? :lol

mysterious luka personality issues

[Duderonomy]

Why wouldn't Dallas ask for Rui or Dalton?

[rawimpact]

With a day to think about this the worse it looks. This had to be an emotional/personal decision by someone high up with the Mavs.

How does this look worse? I mean they know they are not going to offer him the extension so they have to trade him. Who else could they have received and still stayed competitive?

AD is averaging 26/12 playing the 5.... if he goes back to the role he is comfortable with and having top tier PG, the Mavs are looking good.

The biggest downside is AD's contract. He's a UFA next year...

[tontoz]

How does this look worse? I mean they know they are not going to offer him the extension so they have to trade him. Who else could they have received and still stayed competitive?

AD is averaging 26/12 playing the 5.... if he goes back to the role he is comfortable with and having top tier PG, the Mavs are looking good.

The biggest downside is AD's contract. He's a UFA next year...

AD is 6 years older, injury prone, and prone to taking games off even when healthy. It was a running joke one year in the playoffs that he only showed up every other game. He is a second tier player.

Luka is the best player in Dallas franchise history, just led them to the Finals at age 25 and was a MVP finalist. Of course there is the fans to think about i am sure all Dallas fans feel completely betrayed.

If you aren't going to pay the supermax to Luka then who are you going to pay? The supermax was literally created for players like Luka. The Wizards signed Beal to the supermax lol.

[rawimpact]

AD is 6 years older, injury prone, and prone to taking games off even when healthy. It was a running joke one year in the playoffs that he only showed up every other game. He is a second tier player.

Luka is the best player in Dallas franchise history, just led them to the Finals at age 25 and was a MVP finalist. Of course there is the fans to think about i am sure all Dallas fans feel completely betrayed.

If you aren't going to pay the supermax to Luka then who are you going to pay? The supermax was literally created for players like Luka. The Wizards signed Beal to the supermax lol.

This is not a long term investment... he's a UFA next year. This is short-term Win-now move. This roster isn't going to be around in 4-5 years, especially if offering Luka the supermax. Dude is going to be making 62M on his third year... that's 1/3 the team. Then you have Kyrie becoming a UFA...

Yes the supermax was created to retain star players... but one can say Luka hasn't performed like a star player when it comes to his health. I know this is a recent thing with NBA stars being overweight, but the 2000s, 2010s never had this issue with health. Star players take care of their body... Luke has not. Hard to invest in someone who wont invest in themselves.

[bullettooth]

Every ****ing time the lakers look like they're about to die they either sign a generational guy or fleece the **** out of someone in a trade, kareem was a signing, shaq was a signing, pau gasol was a fleecing, lebron was a signing, davis was a fleecing, luka was a fleecing.

Is the league doing this shit only to drive viewership so more advertising money comes through? It's rigged as ****.

[90sgoat]

Why wouldn't Dallas ask for Rui or Dalton?

Christie is good and will be good, probably better than both.

[tontoz]

This is not a long term investment... he's a UFA next year. This is short-term Win-now move. This roster isn't going to be around in 4-5 years, especially if offering Luka the supermax. Dude is going to be making 62M on his third year... that's 1/3 the team. Then you have Kyrie becoming a UFA...

Yes the supermax was created to retain star players... but one can say Luka hasn't performed like a star player when it comes to his health. I know this is a recent thing with NBA stars being overweight, but the 2000s, 2010s never had this issue with health. Star players take care of their body... Luke has not. Hard to invest in someone who wont invest in themselves.



Luka has been 1st team All NBA the last 4 years. The FEWEST games he's played in a season is 61. Hes been pretty durable and he's been a monster in the playoffs

If you really want to trade him then at least shop around for a better deal than this. It isnt just Mavs fans thinking this was a weak return.

[ZenMaster]

Luka has been 1st team All NBA the last 4 years. The FEWEST games he's played in a season is 61. Hes been pretty durable and he's been a monster in the playoffs

If you really want to trade him then at least shop around for a better deal than this. It isnt just Mavs fans thinking this was a weak return.

Who is it you think they could've gotten instead of AD, while still remaining a championship contender? Giannis? Jokic? Shai?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Bet the supermax was a large factor. Doncic is worth supermax but if you can replace him with an elite player who you don't have to pay 70 mil per to that is a big deal if your team owners care about the money. Add in that he's got a work ethic more like Shaq's than Kobe's and there are a lot of valid reasons for Dallas to do this even though they got the older player with less upside.

[999Guy]

Luka on the Lakers feels so tacky. He is young so like CP3 on the Clippers, he could mesh with the franchise and leave a big impression. But the Lakers absolutely suck unlike Lob City.

I’m still not even used to seeing LeBron as a Laker and won’t ever remember him as such.

Terrible for the league. The Mavericks franchise died on Saturday. Luka was the lineal ****ing superstar like Magic after Kareem or Kobe after Magic.

[999Guy]

Who is it you think they could've gotten instead of AD, while still remaining a championship contender? Giannis? Jokic? Shai?

Bro it’s 2025, not 2020. There are young monsters around the league.

Sengun, Thompson, Garland, Mobley, Holmgrem, Jalen Williams, Wagner, Banchero.

Luka is enough to get any combo of these guys AND picks.

[999Guy]

Every ****ing time the lakers look like they're about to die they either sign a generational guy or fleece the **** out of someone in a trade, kareem was a signing, shaq was a signing, pau gasol was a fleecing, lebron was a signing, davis was a fleecing, luka was a fleecing.

Is the league doing this shit only to drive viewership so more advertising money comes through? It's rigged as ****.
It’s becoming clear in my opinion.

This is the most forced and obvious move yet.

One thing I will say is they did veto the CP3 trade. So it’s not all Lakers, all the time. But the timing is suspicious.

It reeks of some corrupt deal.

[tpols]

Who is it you think they could've gotten instead of AD, while still remaining a championship contender? Giannis? Jokic? Shai?

Exactly. Outside of Wemby, SGA, Jokic and Giannis there's nobody Dallas could've got better than AD. And none of those guys are available.

[ZenMaster]

Bro it’s 2025, not 2020. There are young monsters around the league.

Sengun, Thompson, Garland, Mobley, Holmgrem, Jalen Williams, Wagner, Banchero.

Luka is enough to get any combo of these guys AND picks.

What makes you think a team like Orlando would give up their two young all star level forwards for Doncic who'd be a free agent after next season and could just leave?

[ZenMaster]

Bet the supermax was a large factor. Doncic is worth supermax but if you can replace him with an elite player who you don't have to pay 70 mil per to that is a big deal if your team owners care about the money. Add in that he's got a work ethic more like Shaq's than Kobe's and there are a lot of valid reasons for Dallas to do this even though they got the older player with less upside.

Obviously the super max is a huge deal, it's almost impossible to field a championship contender around anyone making 60-70 mill with how the cap works now.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Obviously the super max is a huge deal, it's almost impossible to field a championship contender around anyone making 60-70 mill with how the cap works now.
The current champ has two supermax players. But it is harder to make improvements once you hand out that money.

[rawimpact]

Luka on the Lakers feels so tacky. He is young so like CP3 on the Clippers, he could mesh with the franchise and leave a big impression. But the Lakers absolutely suck unlike Lob City.

I’m still not even used to seeing LeBron as a Laker and won’t ever remember him as such.

Terrible for the league. The Mavericks franchise died on Saturday. Luka was the lineal ****ing superstar like Magic after Kareem or Kobe after Magic.

Except it's completely different. The lakers just got a whole lot younger to essentially rebuild. The clippers were very young needing a vet. I think a lot of people are forgetting Lebron is no longer part of LA's future. Dude will be out in 2 years... that said, 2026, 2027, 2028, 2029 lakers have their first round drafts. When Lebron comes off the books, that's going to be a 50M salary dump. The timing could not have been better. Am I saying lakers are completely rebuilding from picks? No... lakers have never done this historically to win. But those picks and huge cap space allows them to obtain assets.

[tontoz]

Who is it you think they could've gotten instead of AD, while still remaining a championship contender? Giannis? Jokic? Shai?

The only way to know is to talk to other teams which they didn't do. And i am not so sure about them being a title contender with AD and Irving as the two main guys. Their history speaks for itself. Luka getting traded could easily cause Irving to go back into flake mode and AD could go into sulk mode leaving LA.

If AD walks after next season then all they have to show for Luka is Christie and a 1st.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Davis seems willing to give this a shot. He waived his trade kicker so they're still able to make some improvements. Him and Irving have 2 or 3 years to win a ring. I don't think they will but if they stay healthy is not impossible.

[rawimpact]

Davis seems willing to give this a shot. He waived his trade kicker so they're still able to make some improvements. Him and Irving have 2 or 3 years to win a ring. I don't think they will but if they stay healthy is not impossible.

Timing with the west being in shambles is prob. right for a WCF run. I doubt they get past the C's the next few years though.

[999Guy]

Except it's completely different. The lakers just got a whole lot younger to essentially rebuild. The clippers were very young needing a vet. I think a lot of people are forgetting Lebron is no longer part of LA's future. Dude will be out in 2 years... that said, 2026, 2027, 2028, 2029 lakers have their first round drafts. When Lebron comes off the books, that's going to be a 50M salary dump. The timing could not have been better. Am I saying lakers are completely rebuilding from picks? No... lakers have never done this historically to win. But those picks and huge cap space allows them to obtain assets.
Luka's been apart of a rebuild. Why would he want to do it again? He's gonna control his own destiny, I'm telling you. But we'll see.

The Lakers could pull off some magical shit but they are absolutely on the clock.

Luka was mentally ready to truly win an NBA finals series this year with Dallas. Being expected to scrap up a play in berth and then lose in the second round at best will sour him fast.

[ZenMaster]

The current champ has two supermax players. But it is harder to make improvements once you hand out that money.

Exactly, it's very hard to compete paying that much money to one player unless you have conditions for it that are just right.


The only way to know is to talk to other teams which they didn't do. And i am not so sure about them being a title contender with AD and Irving as the two main guys. Their history speaks for itself. Luka getting traded could easily cause Irving to go back into flake mode and AD could go into sulk mode leaving LA.

If AD walks after next season then all they have to show for Luka is Christie and a 1st.

There was a rumor out there that they asked about Giannis and were turned down.
If Kyrie and AD wants to sulk instead of competing for an NBA championship then that's on them, they both have championship experience and know what it takes to win.

[dankok8]

Dallas just got worse because relying on Kyrie + AD to stay healthy is a big gamble. Not to mention the team has no PG facilitator so even while they get better defensively, they get worse offensively. For LA, the move is also a lateral move at best given the poor Luka/Lebron fit but for them it's a long-term move. And honestly if they do keep Bron and can add a defensive C, they are better than they were. Probably still not enough to win it all but definitely not worse.

The only explanation for Dallas doing this is that Luka told them privately that he won't re-sign with them or they know something about his health that we and presumably the Lakers don't. I won't be shocked if Luka is much more motivated in LA, loses weight and plays better than he has recently. Wouldn't surprise me one bit!

[tontoz]

Dallas just got worse because relying on Kyrie + AD to stay healthy is a big gamble. Not to mention the team has no PG facilitator so even while they get better defensively, they get worse offensively. For LA, the move is also a lateral move at best given the poor Luka/Lebron fit but for them it's a long-term move. And honestly if they do keep Bron and can add a defensive C, they are better than they were. Probably still not enough to win it all but definitely not worse.

The only explanation for Dallas doing this is that Luka told them privately that he won't re-sign with them or they know something about his health that we and presumably the Lakers don't. I won't be shocked if Luka is much more motivated in LA, loses weight and plays better than he has recently. Wouldn't surprise me one bit!



Conditioning is Lebron's thing and Luka idolizes Lebron so i would think some of that work ethic will rub off. Didn't Shaq lose weight after the Lakers traded him to Miami? Rejection can be a great motivator.

I keep hearing about AD playing the 4 now which would be a spacing disaster.

[SouBeachTalents]

Conditioning is Lebron's thing and Luka idolizes Lebron so i would think some of that work ethic will rub off. Didn't Shaq lose weight after the Lakers traded him to Miami? Rejection can be a great motivator.

I keep hearing about AD playing the 4 now which would be a spacing disaster.
I honestly don't think this is a great setup for the Mavs. I agree AD at the 4 isn't ideal for spacing purposes, esp with their centers, but Kyrie being the main playmaker is an even bigger concern to me. He's clearly better suited as a teams secondary scoring option, which is why he thrived with LeBron taking over the lead playmaking role. I don't think being the main playmaker is a role that suits Kyrie's talents best.

We'll see how things play out, for all I know they can put everything together a make a deep playoff run, but it's not something I would necessarily bet on happening. You also have to imagine the morale with the Mavs players is low right now, they just got blindsided by their franchise player being shipped out in shocking fashion.

[tpols]

Dallas just got worse because relying on Kyrie + AD to stay healthy is a big gamble. Not to mention the team has no PG facilitator so even while they get better defensively, they get worse offensively. For LA, the move is also a lateral move at best given the poor Luka/Lebron fit but for them it's a long-term move. And honestly if they do keep Bron and can add a defensive C, they are better than they were. Probably still not enough to win it all but definitely not worse.

The only explanation for Dallas doing this is that Luka told them privately that he won't re-sign with them or they know something about his health that we and presumably the Lakers don't. I won't be shocked if Luka is much more motivated in LA, loses weight and plays better than he has recently. Wouldn't surprise me one bit!

If he gets in the loop with Lebrons doctor and "clinic" team everybody is in trouble. :lol

A lean, anabolic Luka would be scary.

[rawimpact]

Luka's been apart of a rebuild. Why would he want to do it again? He's gonna control his own destiny, I'm telling you. But we'll see.

The Lakers could pull off some magical shit but they are absolutely on the clock.

Luka was mentally ready to truly win an NBA finals series this year with Dallas. Being expected to scrap up a play in berth and then lose in the second round at best will sour him fast.

Lakers rebuild can happen in one offseason. They're quite good at these things somehow.

No doubt the current situation sucks for Luka, but I'm sure he knows his chances of winning a chip are greater being with LA vs Mavs because even if AD and Kyrie do, does anyone see them getting past the Celtics?

[90sgoat]

I think it's quite possible that Giannis could sign with Lakers as a free agent, but that's some time off isn't it?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Mavs allegedly could have gotten a second first round pick but would have had to let the Lakers talk to Doncic's agent. Determined to keep this quiet. But also with the supermax being at risk his agent might have scared the Lakers off.

I wonder if we will see owners start randomly trading stars for stars to get rid of the supermax? Maybe not likely but by being trade when Doncic is signed for"just" the max he becomes the #2 asset in the league (Wemby is first) because most of the rest of the top 10 players get supermax sooner or later. You don't expect the Lakers to trade him but you wouldn't expect Dallas to do it either and because he's making 10 or 20 mil less than market value he would be worth what, a top 10 player plus 3 firsts?

[GOBB]

I think it's quite possible that Giannis could sign with Lakers as a free agent, but that's some time off isn't it?

3 seasons

[ArbitraryWater]

Exactly. Outside of Wemby, SGA, Jokic and Giannis there's nobody Dallas could've got better than AD. And none of those guys are available.

No shit, they just shouldnt have done it.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Because millionaires need our sympathy and help, a thought just occurred to me:

It's highly unfair that a guy can lose the supermax for being traded. That clause should be reworked. It would be difficult to make it only apply to guys that request they be traded but if you are going to tie supermax to a player being moved that should be the consideration.

[warriorfan]

Because millionaires need our sympathy and help, a thought just occurred to me:

It's highly unfair that a guy can lose the supermax for being traded. That clause should be reworked. It would be difficult to make it only apply to guys that request they be traded but if you are going to tie supermax to a player being moved that should be the consideration.

This is your brain on obesity.

[Real Men Wear Green]

This is your brain on obesity.

I'm sorry I ruined your life. Well not really.

[warriorfan]

I'm sorry I ruined your life. Well not really.

This would be true if my life was your BMI.

[Phoenix]

Because millionaires need our sympathy and help, a thought just occurred to me:

It's highly unfair that a guy can lose the supermax for being traded. That clause should be reworked. It would be difficult to make it only apply to guys that request they be traded but if you are going to tie supermax to a player being moved that should be the consideration.

That is fukked up, and sets a bad precedent for teams trying to get up from under looming supermax deals. Granted, in Luka's case I suspect he's going to blow up even more now in a Lakers uniform, so he'll make back some of it in endorsements but still, that's not the point. It really feels like a punishment.

[warriorfan]

It is pretty ironic how a system that was built to help keep players staying with their original team is now forcing them away. :lol

I do have a feeling it’s more about the apron system rather than the hometown supermax bonus however.

[Real Men Wear Green]

This would be true if my life was your BMI.

Your life is shitposting. You stay up to all kinds of late hours shitposting. You contribute almost nothing in terms of real discussion but have 50 alts you drag out when banned because you can't live without shitposting. Telling you to kill yourself would be pointless because you clearly aren't living.

[tpols]

With Lebron dropping 40 and 30 point triple doubles this Laker team might actually be dangerous. He's averaging basically the same numbers he put up in his prime, a couple less points but completely made up for by more assists.

Basically it's prime Lebron + prime Luka. In LA where they be parade around and get the Pat Mahomes treatment in critical games.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Chiefs and Lakers won the respective championships. It's a money script. That's what the owners want and will try to influence. Only hope is somebody bucks the system ala 2011 Dallas. (ironically for this thread)

[Real Men Wear Green]

That is fukked up, and sets a bad precedent for teams trying to get up from under looming supermax deals. Granted, in Luka's case I suspect he's going to blow up even more now in a Lakers uniform, so he'll make back some of it in endorsements but still, that's not the point. It really feels like a punishment.

I do wonder if in the future we will see the franchise's that are driven exclusively by profit (of which there are a lot) start trading 1st contract Allstars to each other to avoid the supermax. LA is not one of those franchise's but when you consider that Jaylen Brown is a supermax player and he's unlikely to ever be in the MVP discussion LA getting Doncic for something like 20 mil per year less than his supermax is a massive advantage.

[warriorfan]

Your life is shitposting. You stay up to all kinds of late hours shitposting. You contribute almost nothing in terms of real discussion but have 50 alts you drag out when banned because you can't live without shitposting. Telling you to kill yourself would be pointless because you clearly aren't living.

I live on the west coast you f.ucking moron. Welcome to a thing called “time zones”.

Your incompetent ass banned me for posting on an alt called warriorman that was obviously not me.

You are a fat idiot with no self awareness and the biggest joke of a mod in the history of the internet. You will probably have another spaz about this and ban me again for making fun of you meanwhile guys are spamming porn and spouting the n-word.


It is what it is.

[Real Men Wear Green]

With Lebron dropping 40 and 30 point triple doubles this Laker team might actually be dangerous. He's averaging basically the same numbers he put up in his prime, a couple less points but completely made up for by more assists.

Basically it's prime Lebron + prime Luka. In LA where they be parade around and get the Pat Mahomes treatment in critical games.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Chiefs and Lakers won the respective championships. It's a money script. That's what the owners want and will try to influence. Only hope is somebody bucks the system ala 2011 Dallas. (ironically for this thread)

James is definitely not in his prime. Just this very season he took a week or two off. He is still capable of dominating a game but he's not going to dominate a season because at 40 he needs breaks. If Doncic was healthy right now and could be expected to almost never miss games so that James can take it easy until the playoffs they may have something dangerous but if James is going to have to regularly give that kind of effort he's not going to have enough left to get them past the Thunder or Nuggets.

Additionally the lake defense when Reeves Doncic and James are on the floor together will be terrible until and unless they get a great perimeter defender and a shot blocker. Lakers do have a strong foundation to build off of but they've only got two days to patch up the holes in their roster.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I live on the west coast you f.ucking moron. Welcome to a thing called “time zones”.

Your incompetent ass banned me for posting on an alt called warriorman that was obviously not me.

You are a fat idiot with no self awareness and the biggest joke of a mod in the history of the internet. You will probably have another spaz about this and ban me again for making fun of you meanwhile guys are spamming porn and spouting the n-word.


It is what it is.

"Warriorman?" Are you lying for the benefit of other posters? I banned your dumb ass because you demanded I do a better job as a mod. Keep your dumb shit to yourself when you're stalking the forum at 3am and I'll ignore you like I do most of the morons.

[Phoenix]

With Lebron dropping 40 and 30 point triple doubles this Laker team might actually be dangerous. He's averaging basically the same numbers he put up in his prime, a couple less points but completely made up for by more assists.

Basically it's prime Lebron + prime Luka. In LA where they be parade around and get the Pat Mahomes treatment in critical games.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Chiefs and Lakers won the respective championships. It's a money script. That's what the owners want and will try to influence. Only hope is somebody bucks the system ala 2011 Dallas. (ironically for this thread)

Prime Lebron at his best played defense on top of the offensive production, so not really. He can still produce, and the more I think about it the actual fit with Luka may not be as bad as I first thought, because I can see Lebron playing alot of pinch post area and working the baseline. He's going to get alot of assisted baskets from Luka if they give him full control. So there are still some stylistic similarities, but the difference from when he paired with Wade and later Westbrook is Luka can shoot. At this point Lebron should be morphing into more of a Karl Malone style circa 95 onwards.

But the biggest issue right now with them is obvious, AD was the heart and soul of their defense. The actual redundant player in all this may be Reaves, and I'm wondering if they will try to package him with Rui and a pick for a decent defensive big. Wouldn't also be the worst move to pick up Dwight Howard for pennies on the dollar if he can still provide 10-12 minutes of solid rebounding and defense, at least to get you through the rest of the season.

[tpols]

James is definitely not in his prime. Just this very season he took a week or two off. He is still capable of dominating a game but he's not going to dominate a season because at 40 he needs breaks. If Doncic was healthy right now and could be expected to almost never miss games so that James can take it easy until the playoffs they may have something dangerous but if James is going to have to regularly give that kind of effort he's not going to have enough left to get them past the Thunder or Nuggets.

Additionally the lake defense when Reeves Doncic and James are on the floor together will be terrible until and unless they get a great perimeter defender and a shot blocker. Lakers do have a strong foundation to build off of but they've only got two days to patch up the holes in their roster.

Lebron doesn't need to dominate the season. Luka will be back on Saturday and the Lakers already have a great record so he can pretty much coast and recharge til the playoffs.

[warriorfan]

"Warriorman?" Are you lying for the benefit of other posters? I banned your dumb ass because you demanded I do a better job as a mod. Keep your dumb shit to yourself when you're stealing the cupful at 3am and I'll ignore you like I do most of the morons.

You banned a gimmick account called “warriorman” and extended the ban you gave me after I told you go shove a teriyaki stick up your ass.

It was obvious I was not the account warriormn but you are literally a fat idiot who can’t do any sort of due diligence and had some paranoid ideation that I was avoiding your ban.

You are fat, incompetent, and low iq.

[Phoenix]

Lebron doesn't need to dominate the season. Luka will be back on Saturday and the Lakers already have a great record so he can pretty much coast and recharge til the playoffs.

Minny and the Clippers are both within striking difference, the latter especially with Kawhi back( though for how long is anyone's guess). I'm not sure they should be coasting as much as trying to get the 4th seed or at least hold onto the 5th. Then again, dropping to 6th or 7th could line them up against Houston and the Grizzlies and those teams are young. I'd take the Lakers in either situation.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Lebron doesn't need to dominate the season. Luka will be back on Saturday and the Lakers already have a great record so he can pretty much coast and recharge til the playoffs.

Doncic is believed to have gotten hurt largely due to his poor conditioning. He may fix that problem by next season but it's impossible for him to have gotten in proper shape while rehabbing. He'll be in and out and the Lakers still only have two days to get the necessary defensive help.

And another xfactor that may or may not be worked out quickly is how James and Doncic will play together. The first year with the Heat James and Wade weren't sure how they would work together and Doncic and James will be trying to figure it out in half a season with no training camp.

If they do something like trading for Robert Williams (and he stays healthy) and finds a great perimeter defender I could see them taking the West but it's more likely going to take them a full offseason to make the needed moves. They got lucky with Dallas calling them up and offering Doncic. And it still took a few weeks. Don't expect the other deals to be that easy.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Minny and the Clippers are both within striking difference, the latter especially with Kawhi back( though for how long is anyone's guess). I'm not sure they should be coasting as much as trying to get the 4th seed or at least hold onto the 5th. Then again, dropping to 6th or 7th could line them up against Houston and the Grizzlies and those teams are young. I'd take the Lakers in either situation.

Home court advantage isn't necessary but stay out of the play-in. Basketball is a game where the best team doesn't always win, an ankle injury that normally takes Doncic or James out for two or three games would end their season.

[Norcaliblunt]

AD and LeBron both for Luka would’ve been way more interesting IMO.

If Dallas added Davis and LeBron would they be favorites?

[tpols]

Doncic is believed to have gotten hurt largely due to his poor conditioning. He may fix that problem by next season but it's impossible for him to have gotten in proper shape while rehabbing. He'll be in and out and the Lakers still only have two days to get the necessary defensive help.

And another xfactor that may or may not be worked out quickly is how James and Doncic will play together. The first year with the Heat James and Wade weren't sure how they would work together and Doncic and James will be trying to figure it out in half a season with no training camp.

If they do something like trading for Robert Williams (and he stays healthy) and finds a great perimeter defender I could see them taking the West but it's more likely going to take them a full offseason to make the needed moves. They got lucky with Dallas calling them up and offering Doncic. And it still took a few weeks. Don't expect the other deals to be that easy.


We don't know all of the inside information regarding that so everything you're saying here is pure speculation. Luka may have been straight up holding out because he didn't like his bosses and was openly disrespecting them in meetings. He's the "bad boy" remember? That doesn't end off the court.

None of this stuff is spontaneous or without reason. Obviously something went down behind the scenes and they covered it up.

[dankok8]

Honestly the Lakers look fine recently. Adding Luka will let Lebron take a backseat until the PS and be 100% fresh. To me, they are the second most dangerous team in the West after OKC. All other teams have bigger question marks than the Lakers. Winning a ring without more moves will not be easy but not impossible IMO. One or two injuries say SGA goes down and then they face the Knicks in the Finals...

[SouBeachTalents]

tpols still claiming 40 year old LeBron is in his prime :lol

[tpols]

Honestly the Lakers look fine recently. Adding Luka will let Lebron take a backseat until the PS and be 100% fresh. To me, they are the second most dangerous team in the West after OKC. All other teams have bigger question marks than the Lakers. Winning a ring without more moves will not be easy but not impossible IMO. One or two injuries say SGA goes down and then they face the Knicks in the Finals...

That's exactly what I'm saying. Lebron and Luka can even take turns on the way there with load management. They're going to be fresh as **** come playoffs and are probably aiming to face Houston.

[Real Men Wear Green]

We don't know all of the inside information regarding that so everything you're saying here is pure speculation. Luka may have been straight up holding out because he didn't like his bosses and was openly disrespecting them in meetings. He's the "bad boy" remember? That doesn't end off the court.

None of this stuff is spontaneous or without reason. Obviously something went down behind the scenes and they covered it up.

Doncic's bad conditioning isn't just me speculating it's known fact. He is chubby. "Bad boy" Luka disrespecting his bosses is the rumor and speculation here.

[dankok8]

tpols still claiming 40 year old LeBron is in his prime :lol

Ya that's crazy haha

But still a super fresh old Lebron has to scare the league. Who's to say he can't play at 80% of prime Lebron level for 20 games. Like maybe only a slightly worse version of bubble Lebron. It's possible...

[Norcaliblunt]

Old lebron with Davis and Kyrie in Dallas could’ve been scary.

Old lebron with just Luka on this weak Lakers team is gonna disappoint for sure.

[tpols]

tpols still claiming 40 year old LeBron is in his prime :lol

Lebron spends millions of dollars taking care of himself every year while MJ used to smoke, drink, and gamble to an extreme degree.

He is still in his prime and the statistics support it which is why you and Pheonix have no metric based argument... just emojis and one liners.

Luka is going to allow Lebron to rest more than ever.

[ShawkFactory]

tpols still claiming 40 year old LeBron is in his prime :lol

It’s purely for your response at this point I think.

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron spends millions of dollars taking care of himself every year while MJ used to smoke, drink, and gamble to an extreme degree.

He is still in his prime and the statistics support it which is why you and Pheonix have no metric based argument... just emojis and one liners.

Luka is going to allow Lebron to rest more than ever.
Do you think this version of LeBron is leading the Cavs to 66 wins in '09? Or leading the Cavs to the Finals in 2018?

[1987_Lakers]

Lebron spends millions of dollars taking care of himself every year while MJ used to smoke, drink, and gamble to an extreme degree.

He is still in his prime and the statistics support it which is why you and Pheonix have no metric based argument... just emojis and one liners.

Luka is going to allow Lebron to rest more than ever.

LeBron has come out and said he laughs at the absurd number of money people say he spends on his body. He says sleep at the end of the day (no pun) is the best form of recovery.

[warriorfan]

The obsession on Doncic conditioning and weight is kinda weird.

The guy played 70 games last year on very high minutes. Scored the most points in the league. Rebounds at a high level. Got his team to the finals where they finally lost to a juggernaut team.

Results matter. I don’t care what his weight is if he is getting those types of results. It’s completely irrelevant.

I don’t know what more they want from him really. At some point you are who you are. Asking Luka to get any better of a motor is like telling Giannis to get better at free throws. They both are giving it all they have. They aren’t going to tap into this huge extra level by dedicating all of their free time to it. That’s just not how it works.

[tpols]

LeBron has come out and said he laughs at the absurd number of money people say he spends on his body. He says sleep at the end of the day (no pun) is the best form of recovery.

We all sleep every night. None of us are Lebron. He clearly has the perfect combination of genetics and physical care routine to make his body be prime and optimal for as long as possible.

And high tech PEDs. Which I have no problem with. I'd take them to if I had a connect and they made me stronger.

[tpols]

Do you think this version of LeBron is leading the Cavs to 66 wins in '09? Or leading the Cavs to the Finals in 2018?

2009 and 2018 are absolute peak versions of Lebron. I'd take the current version over 2007, 2008, 2011, and 2013. He's smarter, more skilled and a better shooter. And not playing scared most of all.

[1987_Lakers]

2009 and 2018 are absolute peak versions of Lebron. I'd take the current version over 2007, 2008, 2011, and 2013. He's smarter, more skilled and a better shooter. And not playing scared most of all.

:roll:

[Phoenix]

Lebron spends millions of dollars taking care of himself every year while MJ used to smoke, drink, and gamble to an extreme degree.

He is still in his prime and the statistics support it which is why you and Pheonix have no metric based argument... just emojis and one liners.



We don't? Prime/Peak Lebron had 30-31 PER seasons, this year he's at 23. The only year lower was his rookie season. His offensive rating is a whole 10 points from its peak( 2013) and his defensive rating is tied for the worst of his career( matched by last season). His VORP numbers are at the bottom of his career. His plus/minus right now is -61 and at one point was -115 or something like that. Need anything else? Now tell us what metrics you're using to say he's in his prime. Emojis and one liners are really all that's needed for such a ridiculous position, but you got two minutes of effort from me looking up metrics to show how dense the idea of Lebron being in his prime is.

[tpols]

:roll:

2013 was almost another 2011. A literal hair away.

Lebrons stats were on par with that before Ray Allen's shot flipped the momentum and brought Miami back from the dead.

He was still playing scared. Ask Boris Diaw. Now? He doesn't seem scared anymore when shooting at all.

[1987_Lakers]

Same year he scored 16 points in the 4th quarter and brought them back in the game before Ray Allen hit the shot?

Or this game 7 performance?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htds3dbB-wY

[tpols]

What were his averages in the Finals that year before rays shot?

Worse than his seasons average today. Guaranteed if you pull it up.

He was playing scared til Allen flipped the momentum. Today? He doesn't really play scared and is still a super athlete but smarter and more secure mentally.

[warriorfan]

What were his averages in the Finals that year before rays shot?

Worse than his seasons average today. Guaranteed if you pull it up.

He was playing scared til Allen flipped the momentum. Today? He doesn't really play scared and is still a super athlete but smarter and more secure mentally.

Also in 2016 he was shitting the bed hard the first 4 games before dray got suspended and bogut injured. I wanna say something like 22 ppg on trash efficiency from the top of my head.

[tpols]

Also in 2016 he was shitting the bed hard the first 4 games before dray got suspended and bogut injured. I wanna say something like 22 ppg on trash efficiency from the top of my head.

Yup.

A lot of these guys don't understand that although he may not be as fast... he's smarter. And still as strong as ever. Probably weight room wise stronger than he's ever been. 30s and early 40s is peak strength for men and he's on a routine we can't even comprehend or attain.

[Phoenix]

We don't? Prime/Peak Lebron had 30-31 PER seasons, this year he's at 23. The only year lower was his rookie season. His offensive rating is a whole 10 points from its peak( 2013) and his defensive rating is tied for the worst of his career( matched by last season). His VORP numbers are at the bottom of his career. His plus/minus right now is -61 and at one point was -115 or something like that. Need anything else? Now tell us what metrics you're using to say he's in his prime. Emojis and one liners are really all that's needed for such a ridiculous position, but you got two minutes of effort from me looking up metrics to show how dense the idea of Lebron being in his prime is.

Tpols? I note you've replied to several posts since mine, so we'll pretend you missed this one. Any feedback or shall we stick with your insightful metrics of 'he plays less scared and is still a super athlete?' Can you let me know where I can find those categories on Basketball References? Thanks.

[1987_Lakers]

Also in 2016 he was shitting the bed hard the first 4 games before dray got suspended and bogut injured. I wanna say something like 22 ppg on trash efficiency from the top of my head.

Same series he led all players in every category?

[warriorfan]

Same series he led all players in every category?

yeah

[tpols]

Tpols? I note you've replied to several posts since mine, so we'll pretend you missed this one. Any feedback or shall we stick with your insightful metrics of 'he plays less scared and is still a super athlete?' Can you let me know where I can find those categories on Basketball References? Thanks.

A 23 PER? Lebron was a 25 PER in 2015. Who cares? You're not only splitting hairs but doing a huge disservice to his current ability.

Lebron is averaging 24/9/8 on 116 ORTG. His career averages are 27/7/7 on 116 ORTG.

Is that a massive difference? Not at all. Same efficiency, but he traded a couple points for dimes.

And the Lakers have a very good record so it's not like he's stat padding on a shit team.

I cant believe me of all people have to defend Lebron James against you guys. :facepalm

[Phoenix]

A 23 PER? Lebron was a 25 PER in 2015. Who cares? You're not only splitting hairs but doing a huge disservice to his current ability.

Lebron is averaging 24/9/8 on 116 ORTG. His career averages are 27/7/7 on 116 ORTG.

Is that a massive difference? Not at all. Same efficiency, but he traded a couple points for dimes.

And the Lakers have a very good record so it's not like he's stat padding on a shit team.

I cant believe me of all people have to defend Lebron James against you guys :facepalm

He had a 25 PER but he wasn't a net negative on the court and was still playing capable defense. That wasn't one of his better prime seasons offensively but he wasn't a -61 on the court either.

His career averages take both the high and low spectrums of his career into account. 'Prime Lebron' was dropping seasons of 30/9/8, offensive seasons of over 120 and under 100 defensive IN THE SAME SEASON, TS% numbers of 65%. Past prime Lebron is mostly on the lower end of those numbers. There is certainly no version of prime Lebron that would be a negative on the court in plus/minus. He doesn't impact winning like he used to, and you can look back at some footage of him flying all around the court in 2009 or even 2013 to know he's nowhere near his physical prime. He's had to basically abandon the defensive side in order to maintain his numbers on the offensive, so how the fukk can he still be in his prime?

So you can ma$turbate over the surface numbers till you run out of kleenex and do your usual little tap-dance to justify your position, but nobody having advanced metrics on the lower end of their career in multiple categories would be in their relative prime. That doesn't even take into account this era's lack of defense compared even to Lebron's heyday, where it's easier is maintain stats into your mid/late 30's so that somebody can come along making stupid comments that he's still prime until you look under the hood.

[tpols]

You're becoming very emotional now. Breathe for a second.

I just laid the averages and productions out for you. Lebrons numbers in that regard are literally identical to his career average minus a few points and adding a few assists which balances out.

Lebron has been balling. Especially recently. Like I said before I don't know how me of all people is the one to point that out. Yall are slipping.

And need to recognize game when you see it.

[Phoenix]

Nah, calling out stupidity in colorful terms should by no means delude you into thinking your comments make anyone emotional.

I laid out several numbers for you that shows he's on the low end of several advanced metrics that you claimed SBT and I didn't have. Because he's had to abandon the defensive side to maintain his offensive production in an era of inflated stats, by no means means he's in his prime. You're harping too much on the term prime like you were generational in the other thread.

[Real Men Wear Green]

If you don't care about defense and view the ability to perform at a high level regularly as being unimportant then you could also ignore the decrease in athleticism and scoring average and say that 40 year-old James is in his prime. That's a lot to deny though. I'm as big of a Tatum fan as this site has and I don't believe he would make first team AllNBA over prime James.

[tpols]

Lebron is coming off back to back games of a 30 point triple double and 40 point game with wins over two playoff teams. In just the past few days.

I'm pretty sure he knows how to play at a high level. Some of you fellas are acting like you don't watch basketball at all anymore recently. And I can't be blamed for that.

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron is coming off back to back games of a 30 point triple double and 40 point game with wins over two playoff teams. In just the past few days.

I'm pretty sure he knows how to play at a high level. Some of you fellas are acting like you don't watch basketball at all anymore recently. And I can't be blamed for that.
LeBron hasn't scored 40 points since last March, and hasn't come close to reaching that in a month. I'm genuinely curious what game you keep referring to where he scored 40 points, did you make up in your mind that this happened :lol

[Phoenix]

There really is no nuance on this board. The argument isn't whether Lebron is playing very well, it's comparing him to the years most would consider his prime when he was a legit two way force. If he's now a one way force then no, by the standards of when he was a two way force he's not in his prime. It's like arguing that Steph Curry this year is only 2 points off his career average but same rebounds and assists so he's still in his prime, like I didn't see what he was in 2016 or if I choose to ignore that all his advanced metrics are nowhere close to his peak.

[ShawkFactory]

It’s purely for your response at this point I think.

Aaand it worked. So why not.

[Real Men Wear Green]

No one said James isn't smart, you're arguing with your imagination. We are pointing out the very obvious fact that he's lost some athleticism ( he's still got athleticism but in his prime he was arguably the most athletic player of all time) and he now has to be load managed. Before last year's 71 games he had the straight years under 60 games. Most of his prime years James played in the high 70s. Now he does load management and only defends when the game is on the line. Most people that have followed his career know these things.

[tpols]

I mean you can continue to doubt Lebron. That's your perogative.

I've seen him play probably more than most people combined an his game is as refined as ever. He's not 2009 or 2018 version of perfection but close to other years people would consider his prime.

If you don't like my opinion? Kick rocks and don't respond to me. No sweat off my back. Just don't cry and throw a hissy fit while you do it.

You know what I mean?

[Phoenix]

LeBron hasn't scored 40 points since last March, and hasn't come close to reaching that in a month. I'm genuinely curious what game you keep referring to where he scored 40 points, did you make up in your mind that this happened :lol

:oldlol: Bear in mind he said all this in the same breath as saying the rest of us aren't watching basketball, while he comes up with imaginary numbers.

[Phoenix]

I mean you can continue to doubt Lebron. That's your perogative.


If you don't like my opinion? Kick rocks and don't respond to me. No sweat off my back. Just don't cry and throw a hissy fit while you do it.

You know what I mean?

You're becoming very emotional now. Breathe for a second.

You're free to take your own advice at any time. Don't like the opposing viewpoints? Door is that way ------->

[SouBeachTalents]

:oldlol: Bear in mind he said all this in the same breath as saying the rest of us aren't watching basketball, while he comes up with imaginary numbers.
Some posters like spursm8 straight up make up events that occurred, I genuinely don't know if tpols just imagined in his mind that LeBron dropped 40 the other day when he hasn't done it all season, and like I said, hasn't come close in a month.

[tpols]

You're free to take your own advice at any time. Don't like the opposing viewpoints? Door is that way ------->



I generally don't curse people or gang up. Because I don't need to.

The only door I see is the one you hit yourself with on the way out. Because I'm still gonna be here big boy. :oldlol:

Whether you like it or not.

[Phoenix]

You're making an argument that multiple people disagree with, hence you're being ganged up on. Emotional and playing victim at the same time. I can hear the sand falling out of your panties as we type. What a whiny bitch statement. :oldlol:

We're all still going to be here, 'big boy'. Whether you like it or not.

[tpols]

You're getting emotional again pheonix.

Don't you think its time to "cool" down?

(no pun intended)

[Phoenix]

Aww look, a cute attempt to try and spin words after playing victim.

https://media1.tenor.com/m/tZgiRp-xdgkAAAAC/baby-crying.gif
"I don't like people disagreeing with me, stop it you guys!"

Still here, big boy.

[Nowoco]

One thing about this is really irritating to me. How people keep glossing over his conditioning. If I'm giving an athlete $350m, the bare MINIMUM I want from them is to be in peak physical condition, all the time. No excuses, no playing yourself into shape. Like Kenny Smith says, you don't play basketball to get in shape, you get in shape to play basketball. Luka Doncic has been an absolute disgrace with this and its only gotten worse. This is is 7th year, he's nearly 26 years old. You still have puppy fat? You still balloon in the off season? Grow the **** up and start acting like a professional.

This is where people say "he played the most minutes last year, look what numbers he's putting up!". That doesnt give him a pass. If a prodigy at school is getting B grades, you don't pat them on the back for it. You tell them they should be getting A+ across the board in their sleep. I'm not saying this was a great trade for Dallas or anything, that remains to be seen. But I am saying that with that supermax around the corner, I would hesitate as well giving it to a guy who clearly doesnt care enough about his body or perfecting his craft.

[AlternativeAcc.]

One thing about this is really irritating to me. How people keep glossing over his conditioning. If I'm giving an athlete $350m, the bare MINIMUM I want from them is to be in peak physical condition, all the time. No excuses, no playing yourself into shape. Like Kenny Smith says, you don't play basketball to get in shape, you get in shape to play basketball. Luka Doncic has been an absolute disgrace with this and its only gotten worse. This is is 7th year, he's nearly 26 years old. You still have puppy fat? You still balloon in the off season? Grow the **** up and start acting like a professional.

This is where people say "he played the most minutes last year, look what numbers he's putting up!". That doesnt give him a pass. If a prodigy at school is getting B grades, you don't pat them on the back for it. You tell them they should be getting A+ across the board in their sleep. I'm not saying this was a great trade for Dallas or anything, that remains to be seen. But I am saying that with that supermax around the corner, I would hesitate as well giving it to a guy who clearly doesnt care enough about his body or perfecting his craft.
The problem with your analogy is that he IS getting A+ grades across the board. He's been arguably the best playoff performer in the last 5 years and is fresh off a finals appearance.

Lukas game is built off size and strength with a combo of elite shooting, ball handling, and passing skills. Losing 30 pounds would not automatically unlock some sort of lost potential. He's quite literally built different. The only athletic trait he tested well for is his ability to decelerate... the same trait Harden is elite at. Harden is also a big bodied dude with the same skillet.

Crying about his weight and ignoring his actual production as a player is ****ing retarded. It's like posting a picture of Jokic with his shirt off and pretending it's somehow relevant.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The problem with your analogy is that he IS getting A+ grades across the board. He's been arguably the best playoff performer in the last 5 years and is fresh off a finals appearance.

Lukas game is built off size and strength with a combo of elite shooting, ball handling, and passing skills. Losing 30 pounds would not automatically unlock some sort of lost potential. He's quite literally built different. The only athletic trait he tested well for is his ability to decelerate... the same trait Harden is elite at. Harden is also a big bodied dude with the same skillet.

Crying about his weight and ignoring his actual production as a player is ****ing retarded. It's like posting a picture of Jokic with his shirt off and pretending it's somehow relevant.Doncic is able to be a great player in spite of his conditioning but of course he would be better if he was in shape. You and a lot of others ignore the fact that his defense is terrible. Jason Kidd himself pointed out that the Celtics had a bullseye on Doncic in the finals. There were two big benefits to that, it gave them an avenue to attack an otherwise tough defense and the energy they made Doncic expend on defense made it hard for him to take over the game late. If he was in great shape like great players normally are attacking his defense wouldn't get them as many scores and he would be better able to dominate in the fourth.

Of course he is still a great player, as the Western Conference playoffs showed there are a lot of teams that won't take advantage of that. But it's a flaw that against a great team can be costly and when the goal is a championship he will have to deal with a great team.

[Nowoco]

The problem with your analogy is that he IS getting A+ grades across the board. He's been arguably the best playoff performer in the last 5 years and is fresh off a finals appearance.


For now. Wait until the injuries start happening more regularly and they will if he doesnt sort himself out. Let me ask you this, if Luka keeps getting niggling injuries, what's more likely? That he knuckles down and gets himself into the best shape of his life or that he comfort eats, gets lazy and piles on the pounds? He has repeatedly said throughout his career that he needs to do better with his weight and has continuously failed to do so. That means he has a big problem and is unable to stop it.

The Mavs did this trade not for what has happened but what they think is going to happen. Injuries then lack of production then decline. They all go hand in hand. This trade will either be the worst in sports history or the most ingenious piece of foresight. Again, time will tell. But I don't think the latter is as unlikely or would be as unexpected as many seem to think. The Mavs certainly think so. I've seen a lot of comments on social media saying that they think Luka may have already peaked. We'll see.

[tpols]

Let me ask you this, if Luka keeps getting niggling injuries, what's more likely? That he knuckles down and gets himself into the best shape of his life or that he comfort eats, gets lazy and piles on the pounds? He has repeatedly said throughout his career that he needs to do better with his weight and has continuously failed to do so. That means he has a big problem and is unable to stop it.


Woah...

Are we gonna let this slide..?

[SouBeachTalents]

The Mavs did this trade not for what has happened but what they think is going to happen. Injuries then lack of production then decline. They all go hand in hand. This trade will either be the worst in sports history or the most ingenious piece of foresight. Again, time will tell. But I don't think the latter is as unlikely or would be as unexpected as many seem to think. The Mavs certainly think so. I've seen a lot of comments on social media saying that they think Luka may have already peaked. We'll see.
Trading away your 25 year old franchise player who's already performed at an ATG level because he "might" get injured and decline is genuinely the most retarded rationale I've ever heard.

Before this year he was perfectly durable, always playing at minimum 65+ games. I just can't imagine any scenario where this trade doesn't end up looking as disastrous as it currently does.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Doncic is able to be a great player in spite of his conditioning but of course he would be better if he was in shape. You and a lot of others ignore the fact that his defense is terrible. Jason Kidd himself pointed out that the Celtics had a bullseye on Doncic in the finals. There were two big benefits to that, it gave them an avenue to attack an otherwise tough defense and the energy they made Doncic expend on defense made it hard for him to take over the game late. If he was in great shape like great players normally are attacking his defense wouldn't get them as many scores and he would be better able to dominate in the fourth.

Of course he is still a great player, as the Western Conference playoffs showed there are a lot of teams that won't take advantage of that. But it's a flaw that against a great team can be costly and when the goal is a championship he will have to deal with a great team.

They didn't lose because of Lukas lack of conditioning, they lost because the Celtics were a significantly more talented and deep team. Luka had to carry a far greater burden than anybody on the Celtics and the Mavericks overachieved by making the finals in the first place. Also he was injured in the finals

He's not just a great player, he's generational and has been arguably the best and most clutch playoff performer the last several seasons and he's only 25. They traded him for an aging Center and ONE 1st round pick 4 years from now. Mikael ****ing Bridges netted 5 1st round picks. It's genuinely the worst trade in sports history.

Crying about conditioning is just cope.

[AlternativeAcc.]

For now. Wait until the injuries start happening more regularly and they will if he doesnt sort himself out. Let me ask you this, if Luka keeps getting niggling injuries, what's more likely? That he knuckles down and gets himself into the best shape of his life or that he comfort eats, gets lazy and piles on the pounds? He has repeatedly said throughout his career that he needs to do better with his weight and has continuously failed to do so. That means he has a big problem and is unable to stop it.

The Mavs did this trade not for what has happened but what they think is going to happen. Injuries then lack of production then decline. They all go hand in hand. This trade will either be the worst in sports history or the most ingenious piece of foresight. Again, time will tell. But I don't think the latter is as unlikely or would be as unexpected as many seem to think. The Mavs certainly think so. I've seen a lot of comments on social media saying that they think Luka may have already peaked. We'll see.

So the Mavs traded him because of potential injuries for an aging center with a far greater injury history? That's awesome logic.

Even if the worst case does pan out for Luka, they still traded him for pennies on the dollar and one 1st round pick at the peak of his value for someone older and more injury prone than him.

Its the worst trade ever and I don't need to see the future to say that.

[warriorfan]

I said it earlier i’m the thread but you don’t play 70 games at basically the highest MPG while leading the league in scoring, taking your team to the finals, with poor conditioning.

I don’t care if he weighs 250 or 350 or whatever, the results matter, and you can’t argue with his results.

You could say that about literally any player in NBA history, “they could have been in BETTER condition than they were”

It’s a similar thing with Shaq or Giannis with free throws. Yeah I guess in theory they should be able to practice morning, noon, and night and get it up to 90 or at least 85% right? But sometimes there’s theory and then there is reality.

Of course there is aways room for improvement but at some point you are who you are.


I will say there is a chance of him continuing to gain weight and it turning into injury issues…However, that is a chance you just take with a player of the caliber of Luka.

If he lost too much weight he could also get worse. He uses his weight to his advantage and it’s part of his game.

[tomtucker]

Lebron took his family with him to New York for a game? Why?
Do they travel on the team plane? 🤨

[Real Men Wear Green]

They didn't lose because of Lukas lack of conditioning, they lost because the Celtics were a significantly more talented and deep team. Luka had to carry a far greater burden than anybody on the Celtics and the Mavericks overachieved by making the finals in the first place. Also he was injured in the finals

He's not just a great player, he's generational and has been arguably the best and most clutch playoff performer the last several seasons and he's only 25. They traded him for an aging Center and ONE 1st round pick 4 years from now. Mikael ****ing Bridges netted 5 1st round picks. It's genuinely the worst trade in sports history.

Crying about conditioning is just cope.

Doncic's condition wasn't the only problem but it's a fact that the Celtics got the ball to his man as much as possible just like it's a fact that after dominating the Western playoffs the Celtics handled him. Whether he's a generational talent or not he has a flaw and it got exploited. You want to act like he's the one athlete on the planet for whom conditioning doesn't matter. Doesn't work that way.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Doncic's condition wasn't the only problem but it's a fact that the Celtics got the ball to his man as much as possible just like it's a fact that after dominating the Western playoffs the Celtics handled him. Whether he's a generational talent or not he has a flaw and it got exploited. You want to act like he's the one athlete on the planet for whom conditioning doesn't matter. Doesn't work that way.

I'm not really the one speculating on his lack of conditioning as some fatal flaw in order to justify the worst trade we've ever seen.

He may or may not have a slight conditioning issue, I have no idea. But he undoubtedly benefits from his size and doesn't rely on traditional athletic traits for his success, so the talk about his weight is wildly overblown.

If you swapped Tatum and Luka in the finals, the Celtics win in an easy sweep. His defense, conditioning whatever were completely irrelevant in the scheme of who was winning that finals.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I'm not really the one speculating on his lack of conditioning as some fatal flaw in order to justify the worst trade we've ever seen.

He may or may not have a slight conditioning issue, I have no idea. But he undoubtedly benefits from his size and doesn't rely on traditional athletic traits for his success, so the talk about his weight is wildly overblown.

If you swapped Tatum and Luka in the finals, the Celtics win in an easy sweep. His defense, conditioning whatever were completely irrelevant in the scheme of who was winning that finals.

The Celtics won in an easy 4-1 so that"point" means nothing. Players like Doncic and Tatum have coaching staffs full of the brightest basketball minds on the planet watching every minute of film of them looking for a weakness to exploit. Doncic will have a hard time leading a team to a championship if one of his is something as glaringly obvious as conditioning. It doesn't have to be a fatal flaw, he can take the work ethic he must have to develop his advanced skills and apply it to the weight room and running. Maybe also get some discipline in the diet. If he doesn't he'll still be a great player but he has a flaw that can cost his team games.

[90sgoat]

Luka was targeted and exploited by Celtics, but less than Harden has been in his career.

Celtics loss was mostly about Kyrie being completely unable to deal with their defense and PJ Washington not being able to step up on the biggest stage.

Luka will have to get in shape, but Jokic is also not in elite shape despite people claiming it.

[tontoz]

Luka was targeted and exploited by Celtics, but less than Harden has been in his career.

Celtics loss was mostly about Kyrie being completely unable to deal with their defense and PJ Washington not being able to step up on the biggest stage.

Luka will have to get in shape, but Jokic is also not in elite shape despite people claiming it.


Yeah the Cs had an ORTG of 111 in the Finals which would currently rank 14th in the league. Dallas didn't lose the Finals because of their defense. They lost because Boston's defense shut them down.

[warriorfan]

Trying to shift any sort of substantial blame to Luka being fat as a major reason they lost in the Finals is one of the most brainless talking points I’ve ever heard.

[Hey Yo]

AD not making his debut tonight but is slated to this Saturday against Houston.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Yeah the Cs had an ORTG of 111 in the Finals which would currently rank 14th in the league. Dallas didn't lose the Finals because of their defense. They lost because Boston's defense shut them down.

The team defensive statistic isn't going to be about one man's defense. The Celtics overall numbers were brought down by Tatum having a bad shooting Finals. The Celtics still got a lot of good offense off of attacking Doncic. I am assuming you saw what happened when he was left to guard someone one on one or four involved in the pick and roll. The Maverick coach, Jason Kidd himself pointed out that the Celtics had a bullseye on Doncic. Those were his words. The Celtic strategy was not a secret and it worked.

[tontoz]

The team defensive statistic isn't going to be about one man's defense. The Celtics overall numbers were brought down by Tatum having a bad shooting Finals. The Celtics still got a lot of good offense off of attacking Doncic. I am assuming you saw what happened when he was left to guard someone one on one or four involved in the pick and roll. The Maverick coach, Jason Kidd himself pointed out that the Celtics had a bullseye on Doncic. Those were his words. The Celtic strategy was not a secret and it worked.


Even with that strategy their offense still wasnt that good.

Minny was elite defensively and the Mavs destroyed them with a 120 ORTG in the WCF. Against the Cs their Ortg was 108.4. Kyrie was pretty useless and Tatum guarding the Mavs Cs blew up their pick and roll.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Even with that strategy their offense still wasnt that good.

Minny was elite defensively and the Mavs destroyed them with a 120 ORTG in the WCF. Against the Cs their Ortg was 108.4. Kyrie was pretty useless and Tatum guarding the Mavs Cs blew up their pick and roll.I'm not saying the Celtic defense wasn't great. Teams win and lose for than just one reason and in this case Doncic being someone the Celtics could attack was a factor and his poor conditioning was definitely a factor in his playing worse in the Finals than he had in the WC playoffs that he had dominated.

[tontoz]

I'm not saying the Celtic defense wasn't great. Teams win and lose for than just one reason and in this case Doncic being someone the Celtics could attack was a factor and his poor conditioning was definitely a factor in his playing worse in the Finals than he had in the WC playoffs that he had dominated.

His poor conditioning didn't matter when he was destroying a good defense against the Wolves. He averaged 32/10/8 against them with a 63% TS. Against the Cs his TS dropped by 10%. He didn't suddenly get out of shape in a week.

Some of his defensive problems weren't just due to conditioning. After all the games are spaced out in the playoffs. They had 2 days off prior to game 1, game 2, game 3, and game 5 in the Finals. The only game they won was game 4 with one day of rest.

He has bad habits on defense which got exposed when the Cs attacked him repeatedly. Certainly better conditioning would help but he has to be willing to put in the effort consistently.

[Meticode]

Lakers got basically what they needed in Williams. An athletic center who can block some shots and is a lob threat. It will be interesting to see how the lineup does...

Williams
Hachimura
LeBron
Reeves
Doncic
-
Finney-Smith
Vanderbilt
Vincent
Hayes

[RRR3]

Lakers got basically what they needed in Williams. An athletic center who can block some shots and is a lob threat. It will be interesting to see how the lineup does...

Williams
Hachimura
LeBron
Reeves
Doncic
-
Finney-Smith
Vanderbilt
Vincent
Hayes
They need to start DFS, the starting lineup has no good defenders otherwise unless Williams can return to form.

[Meticode]

They need to start DFS, the starting lineup has no good defenders otherwise unless Williams can return to form.

We'll see. Hach has started 41/41 games this season so far. I could see them starting Finney-Smith as well because he offers the same type of shooting and better defense.

[Axe]

leLuka!!

raptors finna trade poeltl to the lakers and its a wrap. give us austin reaves and its a deal. good trade for both teams.


luka going to carry leGOAT to his 5th ring :oldlol:
It's gonna be hard to see in a tough ass conference tho. Btw, the braindead retard below you is an unwanted narcissistic homosexual who should shoot himself on his stupid head.

[Nowoco]

Still post after post of people making excuses/giving a pass to professional athletes getting paid millions for not being in peak physical condition. Insane.

If this was the NFL, their ass would be cut.

[Real Men Wear Green]

His poor conditioning didn't matter when he was destroying a good defense against the Wolves. He averaged 32/10/8 against them with a 63% TS. Against the Cs his TS dropped by 10%. He didn't suddenly get out of shape in a week. In the Wolves series he was allowed to rest on defense. Minnie's offense was three guys on the three point line watchingAnt play basketball with Gobert standing in the paint. So Doncic just stands there beside one of them and gets a breather. The Celtics are not that stagnant and intentionally involved him in the action often, either giving his man the ball (especially when he was on JB) or making him defend the pick and roll. The constant burning of energy was unlike what he had to do vs the WC opponents.

Some of his defensive problems weren't just due to conditioning. After all the games are spaced out in the playoffs. They had 2 days off prior to game 1, game 2, game 3, and game 5 in the Finals. The only game they won was game 4 with one day of rest. There are always going to be multiple reasons, a lot is going on in a game. With the Celtics not letting him rest defensively a flaw was exploited.


He has bad habits on defense which got exposed when the Cs attacked him repeatedly. Certainly better conditioning would help but he has to be willing to put in the effort consistently.I certainly don't dispute this.

[ILLsmak]

Just saw this. Loool that face, so memey.

https://youtube.com/shorts/_9nYaRBi4gU?si=Jw8cKpA-zujhmyzL

Poor Luka.

-Smak

[999Guy]

Luka's been apart of a rebuild. Why would he want to do it again? He's gonna control his own destiny, I'm telling you. But we'll see.

The Lakers could pull off some magical shit but they are absolutely on the clock.

Luka was mentally ready to truly win an NBA finals series this year with Dallas. Being expected to scrap up a play in berth and then lose in the second round at best will sour him fast.


[Windhorst] The Lakers are under immense pressure to sign Luka Dončić to an extension. Dončić currently has “no incentive” to re-sign with LA: “He never said, ‘I wanna be a Laker.’ There are dozens of players over the years who have made it crystal clear they wanna be Lakers. Luka never said that.”


Told you.

The Luka sweepstakes will be crazy in a couple years.

[Nowoco]

The more I think about this, the more it makes sense for Dallas.

Luka has issues with his conditioning, attitude and overall leadership. As great as he is, he is unable to stay in shape, stop arguing with refs or whining like a bitch when things aren't going his way. Would you really want to a supermax to someone like that with those reservations? Is he really going to start putting in 100% effort and get ripped when he's making that sort of money? The answer is likely, no. The chances of Luka declining prematurely are far greater than him still being a bonafide superstar into his 30s. He will start picking up more and more injuries too.

Would you really want to roll the dice with your entire franchise on Luka Doncic? I'm not sure I would.

https://media.tenor.com/FFxVmk9ggKUAAAAC/denzel-washington-boom.gif