Convergent evolution in basketball.

[Kblaze8855]

I’ve spent a couple days bouncing back-and-forth from despair to boredom as I sit in the ICU with friends and family of one of my best friends who had to be rushed here when his pneumonia didn’t get better. He’s a diabetic so he has a ****ed up immune system. His heart stopped a couple times and we have all been afraid to leave since then….

Long story short I’ve had quite a while to sit in this waiting room and think. And while not thinking dreadful thoughts, I came across a video that put me down this path which will allow me to kill some time on a different subject. So bear with me. These are the paths I go down when it have hours to do nothing but think….

feel free to wander off and ignore this When I get too far off the path…so….



This ridiculous looking human is a rapper named Dave Blunts:



https://youtu.be/Ssj5ZBuhwIo?si=ISaekKtGQhA5dKsS

One of the most absurd things you’ll ever see should you subject yourself to it.

Skip to 1:05 or so for a line that he was entirely too impressed with himself by that created some backlash.


and this sliiiiightly less ridiculous one was known as Big Moe



https://youtu.be/wsoMVxtKlGM?si=3-66JdGKDVZuwIhH

you can’t tell from that joke of a video, but Mo actually had some talent. He could sing a bit and did a lot of very good hooks and had some legitimate rap songs.

But that was one of his bigger hits and was an ode to lean when he called Purple Stuff. 20 years after he died an even fatter purple clad rapper comes along wearing a giant purple suit with “Purple stuff” on it. When confronted about his obvious theft(or possible tribute) he denied even knowing who Big Moe was:


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2502040739380368.jpeg




that monstrosity of a human is suggesting his obvious copy of Big Moe is convergent evolution. Meaning(broadly) distantly related, but evolving similar characteristics to deal with similar environmental issues.

Like a bat. A bat isn’t a bird but they both can fly. Doesn’t make them related. They went down different paths that both resulted in flight. A lot of things in the ocean have a similar shape to swim fast. Doesn’t make them related. It makes having a long, slender body with a powerful tail the best way to outswim pray or predators.

You don’t have to be related to come out the same.

But for the most part? If you’re incredibly similar, it’s because you’re related.

Dave Blunt expects us as a society to believe that two unrelated 400+ pound rappers became addicted to promethazine and coined the term purple stuff independently to sing about it decades apart.

It’s like Kobe trying to convince us he didn’t try to copy Jordan’s fade away. It’s like everyone now saying they have no idea who Dirk is when they do the 1 foot fade away. Even if you didn’t watch him the first time you did it somebody told you whos move it was. You can’t act like you never heard of him.

everyone right now who does a 1 foot fade away is a descendent of dirk. I might accept that Dirks 1 foot fade away evolved independently of the many people who did it before him. People like Jordan Kareem and George Mikan. I’ve seen all of them do it. but I don’t believe Dirk was sitting around watching too much footage when he thought to do it.

So I would accept Dirks fade away as convergent evolution with someone else’s and credit him as the origin for those who come after it. He is now the common ancestor.

I think the media and Internet era have worked together to pretty much drive creativity out of the game because people aren’t allowed to evolve in isolation anymore. Not great young players. You watch Elgin Baylor he didn’t move or play like anybody else because he didn’t have anybody to emulate. George Gervin didn’t move or play like anyone else because there was no one like him before him. Magic Johnson was the same way. Magic was doing all that wild shit in the 70s in high school. Crazy spin moves into off the backboard lobs in 1976 playing in Detroit. He was just…himself.


You would figure bag culture would result in everyone having distinct move set, but what happens is a nice move gets to the Internet and people will literally come on there and tell you they are adding it to their bag and go work on it until 1000 people are doing the same move.



I don’t know if the problem is me because I don’t pay enough attention anymore, but I watch so many young players and I can’t even tell them apart. If you put them in silhouette, I might only be able to tell the difference because of the size of the shadow figure.

[eliteballer]

For some reason I read the thread title and thought you would post this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM4kqL13jGM

[Kblaze8855]

If I have a Question At all, it’s this….


Is Steph Curry the last American player to enter the league who didn’t feel like he patterned his game off of everyone around him?

The closest thing to curry before he existed stylistically was Abdul Rauf Or Mark Price. As Kerr and plenty others have pointed out. Let’s not have that old argument again about how similar I’m just saying a million people watched and that’s what they thought of. But I’ve heard Steph say he went back and watched a lot of Chris Jackson/Abdul-Rauf footage from LSU and he understood the comparison. The implication was he didn’t know very much about him until people brought him up. And in his case I believe it. I believe that was convergent evolution. People of a similar size having to learn to do similar things to get the results they wanted.


Kyrie Irving I’m less sure about. I would call him completely unique except for the fact he is so similar to Rod Strickland if Rod could shoot. And it’s just coincidence Rod is his godfather? It said that Rod played no part in his basketball training and they didn’t meet and play until Kyrie was like 17 or so. But his dad was one of Rod’s best friends and I have to believe he influenced him to play like Rod. I’m not sure what kind of evolution I’d call that but I simply don’t believe these two have no connection



https://youtu.be/gw_mKOCs00g?si=0zSEoe33drJtz4Qq



his dad had to be behind-the-scenes putting that rod Strickland connection in there, right?


Assuming so is curry the only completely original American star?


I think Luka is pretty close to an original aside from obvious Harden influence. Jokic is as well. But Jokic also kind of an amalgamation. Just unique for his body type.

But internationals come over feeling more unique to me. Them. Manu. Guys like Rudy Fernandez. Well, maybe that’s just me not seeing very much European basketball.


Am I wrong on that? Are there a bunch of those guys over there and most of them just aren’t quite big or good enough?

Dejan gave me that vibe



https://youtu.be/99gl6i3w0uQ?si=gqLnm6HVOdMs5H3t



Felt unique when I was watching him in his day. Is it possible Luka is just an evolution of that type mixed with James Harden?

Have we come too far in the media age where everyone can see everything that ever happened for anyone to evolve individually anymore?

Who is the most unique player in the league right now to you? As far as skill set and appearance of the way they play. Wemby is obviously unique because Ralph Sampson wasn’t around when people were shooting crazy threes as bigs. But his moves aren’t unique.


Who is the closest thing we have to a player who doesn’t appear to be an amalgamation of YouTube clips he saw growing up?

LaMelo Ball?

[Kblaze8855]

For some reason I read the thread title and thought you would post this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM4kqL13jGM

Certainly better than the Dave blunts rabbit hole I found myself going down trying to figure out how that could be a real person.

Frankly I’ll take anything right now to keep my mind off the fact I’ve hit the age my best friends can die of natural causes without even being considered a tragedy.

[eliteballer]

Certainly better than the Dave blunts rabbit hole I found myself going down trying to figure out how that could be a real person.

Frankly I’ll take anything right now to keep my mind off the fact I’ve hit the age my best friends can die of natural causes without even being considered a tragedy.

Dying of natural causes at anything less than 75 I'd consider a tragedy, unless there's some underyling physical issue like Pistol Pete.

[Kblaze8855]

I’m also trying to decide how long to wait to tell him the lakers got Luka when he wakes up. Hes a laker fan who was sick of Anthony Davis always being hurt. Hes been unconscious since before the trade. Our other best friend is also a laker fan. We are both hoping to be here to tell him when he wakes up. After we cuss him out for not taking his insulin and dying twice of course.

[highwhey]

oh wow, that dave blunts guy reminds me of patrickchewing bc of big he is

[Im Still Ballin]

Convergent evolution is how you have Melanesians looking like West and Central Africans despite being genetically closer in relation to Asians.

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/01/93/9d/01939db8d2975eac4edcfebfe5e9839b.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/ea/eb/1d/eaeb1d0eb07b7e21bd6303aaad458e82.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

Convergent evolution is how you have Melanesians looking like West and Central Africans despite being genetically closer in relation to Asians.

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/01/93/9d/01939db8d2975eac4edcfebfe5e9839b.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/ea/eb/1d/eaeb1d0eb07b7e21bd6303aaad458e82.jpg



But is it why Vinne Johnson also had a utep 2 step like Timmy?


https://i.ibb.co/sJwwSmF6/IMG-1161.gif




Or did they both take it from a common ancestor in Pearl Washington?

[Neal Romer]

I've always found it regrettable that Darwin isnt around to study Lebron's three legged mutation. You know that would have meant a lot to him.

Also I think Pistol Pete was a definite forerunner to Curry from what I've heard and the footage I've seen. Pulling up from anywhere at any time and shooting shots you just didnt see from the rest of the league. In one of the clips after he makes a shot and the crowd goes crazy the announcer says "that's the guy they came to see!" He had the same one of a kind crowd-pleasing panache as a ball handler and shooter as Curry. Of course the big difference is that his outside shots didnt count for three points, so it wasnt a thing you could measure as easily against his peers in terms of "how many threes is he making" because it wasnt a thing yet. If the three point had existed then, he absolutely would have been the "first Curry."

[Im Still Ballin]

But is it why Vinne Johnson also had a utep 2 step like Timmy?


https://i.ibb.co/sJwwSmF6/IMG-1161.gif




Or did they both take it from a common ancestor in Pearl Washington?

Is a two-step and a euro step the same thing or is there a difference? Was it Manu or that Lithuanian dude in the '90s who brought about the euro step name?

[Kblaze8855]

I've always found it regrettable that Darwin isnt around to study Lebron's three legged mutation. You know that would have meant a lot to him.

Also I think Pistol Pete was a definite forerunner to Curry from what I've heard and the footage I've seen. Pulling up from anywhere at any time and shooting shots you just didnt see from the rest of the league. In one of the clips after he makes a shot and the crowd goes crazy the announcer says "that's the guy they came to see!" He had the same one of a kind crowd-pleasing panache as a ball handler and shooter as Curry. Of course the big difference is that his outside shots didnt count for three points, so it wasnt a thing you could measure as easily against his peers in terms of "how many threes is he making" because it wasnt a thing yet. If the three point had existed then, he absolutely would have been the "first Curry."


Pete did have some Curry similarities to his real game away from the highlights. Give and go. Relocate and shoot. He did a lot



https://i.ibb.co/7xrD9Mfv/IMG-1162.gif



But he was also flashy just to. Just for the **** of it. He definitely evolved on his own path even as he was a bit of an experiment of his dads.

[Kblaze8855]

Is a two-step and a euro step the same thing or is there a difference? Was it Manu or that Lithuanian dude in the '90s who brought about the euro step name?

Totally different things. And you’re talking about Sarunas Marciulionis who definitely didn’t invent the euro but definitely popularized it for a generation of Europeans behind him

[Neal Romer]

But he was also flashy just to. Just for the **** of it. He definitely evolved on his own path even as he was a bit of an experiment of his dads.


https://library.sportingnews.com/2021-08/stephen-curry-passgif_yjn4wnp2euee14ky7mohfntlv.gif


:(

[iamgine]

About 1 foot fadeaways...some things are just too easy to come up with that you can't call it anyone's.

My childhood friend in the 90s often did the 1 foot fadeaways. Another friend did a no-look shot near the basket and he's fairly accurate. Someone else do the Lamelo 1 foot shooting.

It's just easy stuff to come up with when you play basketball.

[Kblaze8855]

About 1 foot fadeaways...some things are just too easy to come up with that you can't call it anyone's.

My childhood friend in the 90s often did the 1 foot fadeaways. Another friend did a no-look shot near the basket and he's fairly accurate. Someone else do the Lamelo 1 foot shooting.

It's just easy stuff to come up with when you play basketball.


it is. Which is why so many different people have done so many different things a few times. Like I said, Karin was doing 1 foot fade away. And Mike and before him. Just like Kareem isn’t the first to take a hook. But a special set of circumstances lead him to develop his own version.

he could dunk everything so he didn’t need to use his rudimentary hook shot very much. But they banned the dunk specifically because of him so plays that would otherwise be a giant one-handed dunk. He had to stop above the rim and flick it in. A few million of them later, he developed a weapon, that slightly modified which nobody had before him and nobody developed sense. Not the way he did it.

Kareem is unique. Anyone who comes along spamming a skyhook like him is almost certain to have taken it from him. The hook shot as a concept is natural. The way he is involved was not. So it would be easy to assume someone was copying him.

Without having years of your development altered by your primary scoring method being banned you couldn’t really develop that shot For the same reason he did.

Kareem was original because of a fairly unique environment. It’s like he evolved on an isolated island that is sank into the sea.

You start spamming Skyhooks from all over the place and say you never heard of Kareem I just wouldn’t believe you. Much like I don’t believe the fat bastard in the OP just happened to dream up the idea of purple stuff for a giant purple suit he wore everywhere, exactly like big Mo.

Even if you had the idea, somebody would’ve told you, you weren’t the first. To come along and say you never heard of them is just being full of shit.

[jstern]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssj5ZBuhwIo

That guy looks like the African American version of Axe. Especially at 1:09, when he's free falling.

[Axe]

^^Here goes this autistic piece of shit again trying to bring me up for no apparent reason at all. :hammerhead:

Btw, this is how autistic greg looks like irl too.


https://m.youtube.com/shorts/2OviErKMwF4

[ILLsmak]

Lonzo ball is exceedingly unique. Haha. Never seen hands like his. His hands better than GP and he can strip high, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUdqZk_WBUw

I feel like it’s true on all levels that the top builds off the top and maybe the evolution is happening in places of like borderline stars.

The loosening of travel rules allowed people do advanced euro stuff that was never done before. The double step back is new.

-Smak

[Kblaze8855]

https://library.sportingnews.com/2021-08/stephen-curry-passgif_yjn4wnp2euee14ky7mohfntlv.gif


:(

when Pete was a rookie, he would do weird and unnecessary things just to be fun like rolling the ball to a teammate instead of passing it through the air. I don’t mean on an inbound. Just be standing there and bowl the ball to a teammate. One time he did it to Lou Hudson, who was the teams best player, and I believe recently made the Hall of Fame and Lou just looked at him crazy and watched the ball roll out of bounds, and the coach went crazy. players werent about that showing off for the crowd shit back then.

He wasn’t very respected by a lot of old school types. And the players didn’t like he came in on the biggest contract ever either. And right after him another flashy but not that good rookie white guard named Ernie Digrioifhnsbwhateveritwas got the biggest contract ever again.

The league was understandably salty.

Pete was nice, but he wasn’t nicer than Jerry West or Kareem. They paid him 8 times what their all star power forward who helped them to the conference finals the season before Pete was making.

They set him up to be hated.

[Kblaze8855]

Well my friend woke up. Seems he’s going to live. I got to inform him the lakers traded for Luka. I should’ve thought to record his breathing and feeding tube covered expression for meme purposes.