Why do Luka/Lebron need a good center when MJ didn't & got destroyed at that position

[3ba11]

Isn't this just further evidence that MJ was vastly superior, or is there something I'm missing

[Phoenix]

or is there something I'm missing

A life.

[SouBeachTalents]

A life.
:oldlol:

Or a psychiatrist.

[Phoenix]

:oldlol:

Or a psychiatrist.

He'd definitely be a lifetime client for one. Jesus H. Christ....

[StrongLurk]

2 posters above me already shut this thread down.

But I will add another fact.

Lebron won a ring in 2012 with Joel Anthony at Center who is one of the worst NBA players of all time.

[3ba11]

Lebron won a ring in 2012 with Joel Anthony at Center who is one of the worst NBA players of all time.





Lies - Bosh was the starting center for that run

Again, we saw duos like Durant/Curry and Jordan/Pippen win without good centers, so why can't Luka/Lebron?

And why does Luka get a pass for being "rusty" when Jordan gets hammered for not winning the title in 95' after 2 years off playing baseball?

[ShawkFactory]

Your other thread from like 2 days ago that is exactly the same as this one get deleted?

[3ba11]

Your other thread from like 2 days ago that is exactly the same as this one get deleted?


Well apparently I did, but it bears repeating... It's objective proof that MJ and Curry are superior... They didn't need good centers and had dominant favorites and "sure things" with no center, whereas Mike Williams is literally supposed to save Luka and Lebron from the debacle we are about to witness... It's pretty clear-cut proof

[Phoenix]

Well apparently I did, but it bears repeating... It's objective proof that MJ and Curry are superior... They didn't need good centers and had dominant favorites and "sure things" with no center, whereas Mike Williams is literally supposed to save Luka and Lebron from the debacle we are about to witness... It's pretty clear-cut proof

Really? How often do you think?

[ShawkFactory]

Well apparently I did, but it bears repeating... It's objective proof that MJ and Curry are superior... They didn't need good centers and had dominant favorites and "sure things" with no center, whereas Mike Williams is literally supposed to save Luka and Lebron from the debacle we are about to witness... It's pretty clear-cut proof

It does not.

[sdot_thadon]

Lies - Bosh was the starting center for that run

Again, we saw duos like Durant/Curry and Jordan/Pippen win without good centers, so why can't Luka/Lebron?

And why does Luka get a pass for being "rusty" when Jordan gets hammered for not winning the title in 95' after 2 years off playing baseball?

Joel Anthony was their starting center. In the postseason they had bosh/haslem because Anthony was so terrible. Even catching the ball was a challenge for Joel. Meanwhile Bosh was injured during that run and probably didn't even play half the games. Lebron also won a chip.with Tristian Thompson, yet another PF playing center. That's a running them with Lebron teams.

[nayte]

Ole Bill cartwright was a better centre than what the Lakers have now.Op is off his meds

[ImKobe]

2 posters above me already shut this thread down.

But I will add another fact.

Lebron won a ring in 2012 with Joel Anthony at Center who is one of the worst NBA players of all time.

Joel Anthony played 19 mpg and started 1 Playoff game in 2012.. Bosh was at the 5 for most of his minutes in the POs.

[Nb1]

LMFAO, weren't you the one posting all over the place during last playoffs how bad Luka is and how impossible it is to win with him :roll:

Now all of a sudden, its ring or bust :oldlol:

And by your guys definition Dallas should win it all since they have Kyrie and AD, the supposedly 2 greatest players of all time. Lets see how they do without Bron again with their combined 0 rings without him :roll:

[John8204]

Isn't this just further evidence that MJ was vastly superior, or is there something I'm missing

MJ's record against centers isn't that great....he beat Ewing and that's pretty much it. He didn't have a winning record against Laimbeer, Parish, and Shaq. John Stockton has a winning record against Shaq.

[3ba11]

MJ's record against centers isn't that great....he beat Ewing and that's pretty much it. He didn't have a winning record against Laimbeer, Parish, and Shaq. John Stockton has a winning record against Shaq.



Jordan won 6 chips in the golden big man era:




* HOF'ers Alonzo Mourning and Tim Hardaway

* Daughtery/Nance from the Cavs

* Vlade/Perkins/Magic Lakers

* HOF'ers Jack Sikma/Moncrief and All-NBA Cummings in 1990

* All-stars Duckworth/Buck Williams

* Swept Shaq in MJ's full season of 1996, and nearly beat him during baseball year when MJ was about 50%

* Ewing

* Rony Seikaly



Jordan won 6 chips in the golden big man era

[3ba11]

.

Assisted Rate in loss vs Utah

REAVES............ 25% (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630559/scoring?LastNGames=1) (PG)
LEBRON'......... 100% (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/scoring?LastNGames=1) (forward)
LUKA............... 83% (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1629029/scoring?LastNGames=1) (off-guard)



As off-ball players, Lebron and Luka couldn't even begin to keep up against the worst team in the West.

Otoh, Jordan went 6/6, so this union of Lebron/Luka will prove me correct that they can't play off-ball and obviously not in the triangle, lmao.. This kind of horrific off-ball play by today's player is why the triangle never won outside of MJ or his clone.

[SouBeachTalents]

Jordan won 6 chips in the golden big man era:




* HOF'ers Alonzo Mourning and Tim Hardaway

* Daughtery/Nance from the Cavs

* Vlade/Perkins/Magic Lakers

* HOF'ers Jack Sikma/Moncrief and All-NBA Cummings in 1990

* All-stars Duckworth/Buck Williams

* Swept Shaq in MJ's full season of 1996, and nearly beat him during baseball year when MJ was about 50%

* Ewing

* Rony Seikaly



Jordan won 6 chips in the golden big man era
That's some weak ass competition. LeBron was beating 3 MVP's on one team, the Duncan Spurs & a top 5 player in Curry on a 73 win team for his titles.

[Manny98]

They just need someone that can catch lobs and play adequate defense

Alex Len is terrible though

[3ba11]

That's some weak ass competition. LeBron was beating 3 MVP's on one team, the Duncan Spurs & a top 5 player in Curry on a 73 win team for his titles.


Lebron got a pass for being 22 years old in 2007... Accordingly, Lebron's victory over babies and a teammate bailout were sandwiched between the goat choke and record loss, which is the worst anyone could do after putting the top 3 PER's on 1 team.

So you should be aware that knowledgeable fans don't rate Lebron's chips because the historical record shows that he stacked the deck with the most help in the league by a wide margin - this includes the preseason favorite for an unprecedented 6 straight years (2011 to 2016), and the only team in the league with more than 1 franchise player on the team (3 franchise players)... He also had the only sidekick to ever outplay the league MVP.

However, the media pretended that these unprecedented advantages weren't something that needed to be overcome by another unprecedented advantage (KD's).. They acted like Lebron had normal teams and Durant came along with stacked teams, but in reality, Durant was just responding in kind.. Durant's advantage lasted half as long as Lebron's (17-19' vs 11-16').

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron got a pass for being 22 years old in 2007... Accordingly, Lebron's victory over babies and a teammate bailout were sandwiched between the goat choke and record loss, which is the worst anyone could do after putting the top 3 PER's on 1 team.

So you should be aware that knowledgeable fans don't rate Lebron's chips because the historical record shows that he stacked the deck with the most help in the league by a wide margin - this includes the preseason favorite for an unprecedented 6 straight years (2011 to 2016), and the only team in the league with more than 1 franchise player on the team (3 franchise players)... He also had the only sidekick to ever outplay the league MVP.

However, the media pretended that all these unprecedented advantages weren't something that needed to be overcome by another unprecedented advantage (KD's).. They acted like Lebron had normal teams and Durant came along with stacked teams, but in reality, Durant was just responding in kind.. Durant's advantage lasted half as long as Lebron's (17-19' vs 11-16').
1-9

[ShawkFactory]

.

Assisted Rate in loss vs Utah

REAVES............ 25% (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630559/scoring?LastNGames=1) (PG)
LEBRON'......... 100% (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/scoring?LastNGames=1) (forward)
LUKA............... 83% (https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1629029/scoring?LastNGames=1) (off-guard)



As off-ball players, Lebron and Luka couldn't even begin to keep up against the worst team in the West.

Otoh, Jordan went 6/6, so this union of Lebron/Luka will prove me correct that they can't play off-ball and obviously not in the triangle, lmao.. This kind of horrific off-ball play by today's player is why the triangle never won outside of MJ or his clone.

100% of his buckets were assisted?? Damn

[John8204]

You bring up age but you also mention Jack Sikma in 1990....the same guy that won a title in 1979. Also the Cav's center was Rick Mahorn who averaged like 7 point's. So congrats for him defeating the backup center from the Pistons

[StrongLurk]

Joel Anthony played 19 mpg and started 1 Playoff game in 2012.. Bosh was at the 5 for most of his minutes in the POs.

Im aware, Joel was the starting Center all year and was SO BAD, they couldn't even play him anymore, so they had Bosh, a PF, play center. Joel still got the most minutes of the team as Center and Miami won the ring in 2012.

So OP is wrong regardless of whatever trolling he wants to do. He got bodybagged so hard right at the start of the thread that he has resorted to spamming like 5 different topics within a couple of posts.

[StrongLurk]

100% of his buckets were assisted?? Damn

OP is literally obsessing over every single game Lebron has played over the last 15 years. Every stat, every thread topic, whatever he can do to talk about Lebron James, he does. OP is Lebron's biggest fan.

[pandiani17]

Jordan won 6 chips in the golden big man era:




* HOF'ers Alonzo Mourning and Tim Hardaway

* Daughtery/Nance from the Cavs

* Vlade/Perkins/Magic Lakers

* HOF'ers Jack Sikma/Moncrief and All-NBA Cummings in 1990

* All-stars Duckworth/Buck Williams

* Swept Shaq in MJ's full season of 1996, and nearly beat him during baseball year when MJ was about 50%

* Ewing

* Rony Seikaly



Jordan won 6 chips in the golden big man era

Zo, Shaq, Ewing and Daugherty were really good, three hall of famers and an all-star. Other players on that list, however...:whatever:

[Lebron23]

Jordan played against terrible competition. He is going to be DeMar DeRozan in today's NBA

[Axe]

No pip?

[sdot_thadon]

Joel Anthony played 19 mpg and started 1 Playoff game in 2012.. Bosh was at the 5 for most of his minutes in the POs.

Bosh also missed half the damn games in that run which is why Lebron's series vs indy and Boston mattered so much.

[pandiani17]

No pip?

No chip?

[3ba11]

Zo, Shaq, Ewing and Daugherty were really good, three hall of famers and an all-star. Other players on that list, however...:whatever:


Lebron fans and media complain about facing Chet Holmgren, so all the guys that I listed are superior, and also the whole point is that they're far better than Longley or Cartwright - Jordan was destroyed at the center spot in virtually every series, but it didn't matter because his skillset had great chemistry with his sidekick and teammates to still win... Otoh, Lebron and Luka have horrible chemistry, so they need a good center and other good players..

Secondly, MJ won 6 chips in the big man era and post-up era... The standard for post play was on another level from today's bigs - Chet is considered an up-and-coming player in today's game but he would be ordinary or barely above average in the 90's.. Previous eras had the same advantage on 2-pointers that today's era has on 3-pointers, so this includes post, mid-range and triple-threat scoring.

[dankok8]

3ball have you considered making a YouTube channel? Since you've got energy to talk about this all day, you should create some videos and reach wider audiences. Lots of people actually agree with your takes and would enjoy looking at your content. I don't know why you keep posting it on a forum over and over where a) People are tired of it. b) They don't care. c) They are obviously trolling you.

[ShawkFactory]

3ball have you considered making a YouTube channel? Since you've got energy to talk about this all day, you should create some videos and reach wider audiences. Lots of people actually agree with your takes and would enjoy looking at your content. I don't know why you keep posting it on a forum over and over where a) People are tired of it. b) They don't care. c) They are obviously trolling you.

Are we really acting like he doesn't have a YouTube channel? :lol

[3ba11]

3ball have you considered making a YouTube channel? Since you've got energy to talk about this all day, you should create some videos and reach wider audiences. Lots of people actually agree with your takes and would enjoy looking at your content. I don't know why you keep posting it on a forum over and over where a) People are tired of it. b) They don't care. c) They are obviously trolling you.


Yes very soon, once this thread (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/46/sporting-events/lebron-gt-jordan-goat-super-aids-containment-solved-22999-post-matt-r-addendum-23174-a-1338318/index971.html) gets to nearly 1000 pages (971 so far), I'll start a channel and point to various "fallguy" posts from that thread and possibly this forum as well - the points being made are a lot more convincing and easier to understand when spoken and diagrammed than read on a forum.

[ILLsmak]

I forgot about joel anthony. Haha bron never once played with a good c. Your mistake was not saying big.

-Smak

[Phoenix]

3ball, how on earth do you have the time and energy, but especially the time, for the volume of posts both on this site and as 'Fallguy' on the site you linked? Genuine question.

[3ba11]

I forgot about joel anthony. Haha bron never once played with a good c. Your mistake was not saying big.

-Smak


So again, why do Luka/Lebron need a good center then?

Lebron didn't need a good center (although you're right - he always needed a franchise player at PF), while we know that MJ didn't need one... So why does Luka?... Obviously, it's because of the horrific fit with Lebron - their skillsets have bad chemistry, so they might need more help now than they needed playing apart.

Btw, Luka and Lebron tried playing off-ball last game - both guys had 100% assisted rate, so 100% of their buckets were assisted by teammates... And you saw what happened - as off-ball players, they couldn't hang with the worst team in the West... Meanwhile, MJ went 6/6 and Jokic is about to win a few.. Bird is maybe the goat off-ball player and controlled games... and on and on.. only the modern player - the high-scoring ball-dominator - has these types of chemistry and "fit" issues due to an inability to play effectively off-ball... The issue with Luka and Lebron was that they couldn't generate enough volume off-ball to keep up with the worst team in the West, aka they're bad off-ball players - they can't learn to be Karl Malone in a couple months, or even a couple years, so they're screwed - it's like telling Shaq to learn threes, or an amateur to get ready to fight Floyd.

[Phoenix]

I'm going through that thread above and 3ball expends even more time on that site than this one because there's quite a few posters going back and forth with him sentence for sentence. So he's literally making hundreds of posts daily just between this site and that one( and I'm betting some other sites as well). Every day. All day. Holy fukking shit.

[BarberSchool]

Apples & Oranges

Illegal defense / forced spacing

modern defense / actual spacing threats

[3ba11]

Apples & Oranges

Illegal defense / forced spacing

modern defense / actual spacing threats


makes no sense bud

today's open paint and easy scoring doesn't explain why the duo of Luka/Lebron needs a center but Curry/Durant didn't, or MJ/Pippen didn't... Luka and Lebron simply have skillsets that occasionally produce horrific fits, so those fits need more help... Otoh, less ball-dominant skillsets like jumpshooters or bigs don't have this chemistry issue and generally have better fits.

[3ba11]

I'm going through that thread above and 3ball expends even more time on that site than this one because there's quite a few posters going back and forth with him sentence for sentence. So he's literally making hundreds of posts daily just between this site and that one( and I'm betting some other sites as well). Every day. All day. Holy fukking shit.


I drive the goat debate.. I'm the world source on the issue.. :lol... My takes eventually get into the media.. It takes some time, but it's taking less and less

[3ba11]

Self-researched facts on youtube pointed out that Lebron didn't face dynasties like the Warriors and Spurs because he CREATED them by losing to them so many times - literally - that's how the Spurs dynasty and certainly the Warriors were elevated to dynasty-caliber - by beating Lebron.

[Phoenix]

I drive the goat debate.. I'm the world source on the issue.. :lol... My takes eventually get into the media.. It takes some time, but it's taking less and less

My question is, why is anyone's opinion on basketball counter to yours that serious for that level of effort? I don't know how old you are, I gather 40+. So am I, well into my 40s in fact, and I'm giving less and less of a shit about things. And of the things I actually deem relevant to give that kind of energy to? Who is who in basketball GOAT conversations isn't even on the list. I mean do you, but Jesus.

Danko8 made a good point. If you gonna spend that much time doing this, at least make a youtube channel and monetize the shit.

[Hey Yo]

Colt Seavers aka The Fall Guy aka Six Million Dollar Man.

[ImKobe]

Bosh also missed half the damn games in that run which is why Lebron's series vs indy and Boston mattered so much.

He did miss games in the Pacers & Celtics series but it's not like they needed a strong 5 in that era, there wasn't a great big man (at least one in their primes as KG & Duncan were too old & Dwight got injured) in their way who would exploit their weakness at the 5. Pacers had the size advantage but those teams lacked scoring as PG wasn't quite there yet and Danny Granger had I believe a knee injury in 2012 & his career was shortly over after that.

Did make a past-prime Duncan look like his peak self though for most of that 2013 series and Roy Hibbert basically became a star off the strength of what he did against Miami, but the Heat's perimeter defense was so good that whatever advantage their opponents could have in terms of size wouldn't really matter as the opposing stars were mostly perimeter players that they could take out of the game with Spo's defensive schemes. Bosh played lockdown defense on guards in their Playoff match-ups whenever switched onto them and then you add Battier to that mix as well & that Miami team was damn near unstoppable on D.

[Hey Yo]

Why couldn't superstar center Bosh stop Hibbert? Why did he let big Roy become a star that series?

[sdot_thadon]

I'm going through that thread above and 3ball expends even more time on that site than this one because there's quite a few posters going back and forth with him sentence for sentence. So he's literally making hundreds of posts daily just between this site and that one( and I'm betting some other sites as well). Every day. All day. Holy fukking shit.

I'm shocked they even let him back there. It was a period of time this maniac had them playing whack-a-mole with all the getting banned and making new accounts. He lost his shit on that site.

[sdot_thadon]

makes no sense bud

today's open paint and easy scoring doesn't explain why the duo of Luka/Lebron needs a center but Curry/Durant didn't, or MJ/Pippen didn't... Luka and Lebron simply have skillsets that occasionally produce horrific fits, so those fits need more help... Otoh, less ball-dominant skillsets like jumpshooters or bigs don't have this chemistry issue and generally have better fits.

The stupidest part of this thread is your autistic level fixation on the big for the wrong reason. They need a decent big, not for offense you fool a catch and dunk guy isnt a great center. They need one more to help cover the defensive liability on that end. Mj always had solid defense at center and if not that a guy that cracked orbitals on superstar centers. Lakers just need a guy that isn't a traffic cone.

[sdot_thadon]

He did miss games in the Pacers & Celtics series but it's not like they needed a strong 5 in that era, there wasn't a great big man (at least one in their primes as KG & Duncan were too old & Dwight got injured) in their way who would exploit their weakness at the 5. Pacers had the size advantage but those teams lacked scoring as PG wasn't quite there yet and Danny Granger had I believe a knee injury in 2012 & his career was shortly over after that.

Did make a past-prime Duncan look like his peak self though for most of that 2013 series and Roy Hibbert basically became a star off the strength of what he did against Miami, but the Heat's perimeter defense was so good that whatever advantage their opponents could have in terms of size wouldn't really matter as the opposing stars were mostly perimeter players that they could take out of the game with Spo's defensive schemes. Bosh played lockdown defense on guards in their Playoff match-ups whenever switched onto them and then you add Battier to that mix as well & that Miami team was damn near unstoppable on D.

Right they didn't "need" a big agaisnt those tough playoff opponents because Lebron " became" the big for those spots when Bosh was away. Thats what made the 2012 chip pretty impressive.

[ImKobe]

Why couldn't superstar center Bosh stop Hibbert? Why did he let big Roy become a star that series?

Look at the size & weight difference on those guys. Plus, Roy Hibbert wasn't going to beat them by himself. Sure, he had a bunch of offensive rebounds that he hurt Miami on, but you couldn't just give him the ball in the post and have him cook on a consistent basis, he was a role player (who averaged like 10 a game on sub-50% shooting) who happened to be great on defense.

[ShawkFactory]

Self-researched facts on youtube pointed out that Lebron didn't face dynasties like the Warriors and Spurs because he CREATED them by losing to them so many times - literally - that's how the Spurs dynasty and certainly the Warriors were elevated to dynasty-caliber - by beating Lebron.

Just post your video you weirdo. I promise I’ll watch it if you do

[And1AllDay]

A life.

:oldlol:

[And1AllDay]

:oldlol:

Or a psychiatrist.

:roll:
:roll:

[And1AllDay]

2 posters above me already shut this thread down.

But I will add another fact.

Lebron won a ring in 2012 with Joel Anthony at Center who is one of the worst NBA players of all time.

:oldlol:

[And1AllDay]

It does not.

:oldlol::roll:

[3ba11]

I'm going through that thread above and 3ball expends even more time on that site than this one because there's quite a few posters going back and forth with him sentence for sentence. So he's literally making hundreds of posts daily just between this site and that one( and I'm betting some other sites as well). Every day. All day. Holy fukking shit.



here are the cliff notes for that thread in case you didn't want to read the 971 pages of 25 posts per page:




If a player's career assisted rate on field goals is below 40%, then they're a primary ball-handler that scores mostly unassisted by teammates, aka ball-dominator... But the problem lies with high-scoring ball-dominators like Lebron, since they have a high volume of unassisted buckets that hurts the team assist ranking over time and increasingly places teammates in spot-up roles with higher assisted rates (1 (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=58893205&postcount=24242))... The increased spot-up roles for teammates are a direct funnel to Lebron's assists, while reducing his teammates' assists, thus causing low-assist teams compared to the typical champion (2 (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=58895134&postcount=24278), 3 (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=58859617&postcount=23882)).. Low assist teams are the Achilles heel of high-scoring ball-dominators because every series loss of Lebron's playoff career shows deficits in team assists, except the goat choke in the 11' Finals.

Furthermore, by turning everyone into spot-up shooter, ball-dominators prevent elite roster construction, so they can't be the leading scorer for dynasties or dominant champions, and are 0 for 12 in doing so (4 (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=58895066&postcount=24276)).. Since ball-dominators can't produce the best basketball, they're inferior to the best of other skillsets that can, such as bigs or jumpshooters (12 for 12).. This puts Lebron and all ball-dominators outside the top 10 all-time (behind the best bigs and jumpshooters)... With ball-dominators outside the top 10, the actual top 10 is a subjective mix of bigs and jumpshooters, such as MJ, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Curry, Jokic, Magic, Lebron, Oscar.. This is actually a top 13 with ball-dominators bringing up the rear.

[SouBeachTalents]

here are the cliff notes for that thread in case you didn't want to read the 971 pages of 25 posts per page:




If a player's career assisted rate on field goals is below 40%, then they're a primary ball-handler that scores mostly unassisted by teammates, aka ball-dominator... But the problem lies with high-scoring ball-dominators like Lebron, since they have a high volume of unassisted buckets that hurts the team assist ranking over time and increasingly places teammates in spot-up roles with higher assisted rates (1 (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=58893205&postcount=24242))... The increased spot-up roles for teammates are a direct funnel to Lebron's assists, while reducing his teammates' assists, thus causing low-assist teams compared to the typical champion (2 (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=58895134&postcount=24278), 3 (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=58859617&postcount=23882)).. Low assist teams are the Achilles heel of high-scoring ball-dominators because every series loss of Lebron's playoff career shows deficits in team assists, except the goat choke in the 11' Finals.

Furthermore, by turning everyone into spot-up shooter, ball-dominators prevent elite roster construction, so they can't be the leading scorer for dynasties or dominant champions, and are 0 for 12 in doing so (4 (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=58895066&postcount=24276)).. Since ball-dominators can't produce the best basketball, they're inferior to the best of other skillsets that can, such as bigs or jumpshooters (12 for 12).. This puts Lebron and all ball-dominators outside the top 10 all-time (behind the best bigs and jumpshooters)... With ball-dominators outside the top 10, the actual top 10 is a subjective mix of bigs and jumpshooters, such as MJ, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Curry, Jokic, Magic, Lebron, Oscar.. This is actually a top 13 with ball-dominators bringing up the rear.
1-9

[ILLsmak]

So again, why do Luka/Lebron need a good center then?

Lebron didn't need a good center (although you're right - he always needed a franchise player at PF), while we know that MJ didn't need one... So why does Luka?... Obviously, it's because of the horrific fit with Lebron - their skillsets have bad chemistry, so they might need more help now than they needed playing apart.

Btw, Luka and Lebron tried playing off-ball last game - both guys had 100% assisted rate, so 100% of their buckets were assisted by teammates... And you saw what happened - as off-ball players, they couldn't hang with the worst team in the West... Meanwhile, MJ went 6/6 and Jokic is about to win a few.. Bird is maybe the goat off-ball player and controlled games... and on and on.. only the modern player - the high-scoring ball-dominator - has these types of chemistry and "fit" issues due to an inability to play effectively off-ball... The issue with Luka and Lebron was that they couldn't generate enough volume off-ball to keep up with the worst team in the West, aka they're bad off-ball players - they can't learn to be Karl Malone in a couple months, or even a couple years, so they're screwed - it's like telling Shaq to learn threes, or an amateur to get ready to fight Floyd.

**** luka for now. Reassess after success. They had a tough situation and faced a bad match up in Finals, but they had a moderately lucky run. He’s just another superstar to me. We don’t know what Luka needs to win. He hasn’t. I now see you are talking about this LA team when you say Luka and Bron. My brain has failed. I should have picked that up.

I mean, NBA is wide open enough LA could win with enough ref favor. I think what ad luka trade did is remove Dallas’ and Lukas vulnerability to the Celtics.

They’ll get a ridic center this summer haha.

-Smak

[Full Court]

OP asks a good question. The Mavs weren't exactly flourishing with Luka and Porzingis.

[PeroAntic]

* Rony Seikaly


:roll:

I swear 3ball's ultimate agenda is to destroy MJ's goat case. Hes playing 4d chess. Well maybe 4d tic tac toe but still its one of the biggest psyops in internet troll history.