If MJ lost in 7 and averaged 26 on 35% with 5.3 TO's, it would be called epic choke

[3ba11]

Yet for some reason, Lebron wasn't knocked for choking with a 5-year team of veterans, a reputed defense and defending Eastern Conference Champions..

It was his 2nd major choke after 22 on 36% and 6 TO's in the 07' Finals - this performance at 22 years old was a joke compared to 22-year old Kobe dominating the 01' Spurs with 33/7/7 on 53%, or 22-year Amare dominating the 05' Spurs with 37 on 55%.

In addition to the chokes in 07' and 08', Lebron had the worst-ever defensive blunder of defending Courtney Lee in the 09' ECF instead of Hedo, while his 7 turnovers in the 4th and OT of Game 4 won the series for Orlando - Lebron was a 12 turnover per game player in clutch-time for that series.. This choke in 09, coupled with the chokes in 07', 08', and the 2010 meltdown were the precursors that should've predicted the goat choke in 2011.

In addition to his chokes each year from 07' to 11', he's 0% on championship game-winners or tyers (0-7), with zero scores on the last possession of 1-possession Finals game in 10 Finals.. He's also only 37% in the playoffs overall on game-winners, with only 40% clutch-time efficiency (48% for old Jordan in 97' and 98' with 20% greater burden/attempts).. 4 of Jordan's MVP's included titles compared to only 2 for Lebron and no scoring titles or DPOY, so Jordan's MVP caliber was higher, while his team winning was obviously higher with 3-peats and 72 or 69 win seasons.. There is no real debate - only a fake one.

[1987_Lakers]

This is a choke.

. A young MJ though struggled with his shooting and would get 30 points on only 9/30 shooting.

Bulls had a 7 point lead with 11 minutes left in the fourth. Celtics however went on a Bird-led run in the fourth and completed the sweep. Jordan shot 0/8 in the fourth


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RVMJSCTj5Y

[8Ball]

1-9

[3ba11]

This is a choke.

[B]. A young MJ though struggled with his shooting and would get 30 points on only 9/30 shooting.

Bulls had a 7 point lead with 11 minutes left in the fourth. Celtics however went on a Bird-led run in the fourth





2008 Lebron ECSF........ 26.7 on 35%... 5.3 TO's.... 7-game loss (winnable) <---------- massive choke
1987 Jordan 1st Rd...... 35.7 on 42%... 2.7 TO's.... 3-0 sweep loss (unwinnable) <----- not a choke

[1987_Lakers]

2008 Lebron ECSF........ 26.7 on 35%... 5.3 TO's.... 7-game loss (winnable) <---------- massive choke
1987 Jordan 1st Rd...... 35.7 on 42%... 2.7 TO's.... 3-0 sweep loss (unwinnable) <----- not a choke

Bulls had a 7 point lead with 11 minutes left in the fourth. Celtics however went on a Bird-led run in the fourth and completed the sweep. Jordan shot 0/8 in the fourth

CHOKE!!

[3ba11]

Bulls had a 7 point lead with 11 minutes left in the fourth. Celtics however went on a Bird-led run in the fourth and completed the sweep. Jordan shot 0/8 in the fourth

CHOKE!!


^^^ losing a 7 point lead with the worst cast in the league against the goat team??... dumbest argument anyone ever made

jordan never had a bad series, while Lebron had horrible series in 07' Finals, 08' ECSF, 10' ECSF, 11' Finals, 16' 1st Round, 14' ECF, and many more... And also the 09' ECF because he lost as the favorite due to turnovers and bad clutch-time play, ball-dominance and defensive blunder by guarding Lee instead of Hedo

[SouBeachTalents]

^^^ losing a 7 point lead with the worst cast in the league against the goat team??... dumbest argument anyone ever made
That would actually be Curry was the most overrated player of all time.

[1987_Lakers]

^^^ losing a 7 point lead with the worst cast in the league against the goat team??... dumbest argument anyone ever made

Shooting 0/8 in the 4th while being defended at times by this guy.

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/a0/b8/c1/a0b8c12eb75f7c613854af9818fbd137.jpg

CHOKE!

[3ba11]

That would actually be Curry was the most overrated player of all time.


Jordan never had a bad series, while Lebron had bad series in the 2014 ECF, 2016 1st Round, 07' Finals, 10' ECSF, 08' ECSF, 11' ECSF (Wade carried him to his first win over nemesis the Celtics), 11' Finals, 21' 1st Round, and more.. the 13' Finals was a disaster (23 on 43%) until Ray's miracle - the heat still didn't win with lebron on the floor (zero plus/minus and negative net rating for the series)

[SouBeachTalents]

Jordan never had a bad series, while Lebron had bad series in the 2014 ECF, 2016 1st Round, 07' Finals, 10' ECSF, 08' ECSF, 11' ECSF (Wade carried him to his first win over nemesis the Celtics), 11' Finals, 21' 1st Round, and more.. the 13' Finals was a disaster (23 on 43%) until Ray's miracle - the heat still didn't win with lebron on the floor (zero plus/minus and negative net rating for the series)
Idk what that has to do with calling Curry the most overrated player of all time being the worst argument anyone ever made, but that shit was dumb.

[3ba11]

Idk what that has to do with calling Curry the most overrated player of all time being the worst argument anyone ever made, but that shit was dumb.


That was a macro "big picture" philosophical argument, which are wrong all the time because they're big swings... Mine actually aren't wrong all the time though and there's only about 3 that you can find for me, out of all the ones that I've made (thousands)

[sdot_thadon]

This is a choke.

. A young MJ though struggled with his shooting and would get 30 points on only 9/30 shooting.

Bulls had a 7 point lead with 11 minutes left in the fourth. Celtics however went on a Bird-led run in the fourth and completed the sweep. Jordan shot 0/8 in the fourth


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RVMJSCTj5Y

:biggums: don't you use god disguised as Michael Jordan's name in vain.

[3ba11]

:biggums: don't you use god disguised as Michael Jordan's name in vain.


Would Bird still call MJ "God in basketball shoes" if MJ averaged 22 on 36% with 6 TO's per game in the 86' 1st Round??... And what if during another series, MJ lost in 7 games and averaged 26 on 35% with 5.3 TO's??... These would be considered epic chokes..

Accordingly, Lebron choked every year from 07' to 11', while also having horrible clutch efficiency for his career and 0-7 on the championship level for game-winners or tyers.

So Lebron has the best case for goat choker and also goat loser because he has a losing record with every type of good team.. This includes 3-4 with preseason favorites, 4-6 with Finals teams, 4-7 with all-star teammates, 4-5 with 1 or 2 seeds, and 3 losses with homecourt... Ultimately, Lebron's skillset needed the most help in history and still had lowest win frequency, so he's not top 10.

[tpols]

This is a choke.

. A young MJ though struggled with his shooting and would get 30 points on only 9/30 shooting.

Bulls had a 7 point lead with 11 minutes left in the fourth. Celtics however went on a Bird-led run in the fourth and completed the sweep. Jordan shot 0/8 in the fourth


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RVMJSCTj5Y

Lebrons choke was much worse though tbh.

How can you be said to have "no help" when you play that bad and the series goes to 7 vs 2008 Boston Celtics?

Kobe faced that same team in the same year and he got beat in 6 despite outplaying Lebron vs them.

[ShawkFactory]

Lebrons choke was much worse though tbh.

How can you be said to have "no help" when you play that bad and the series goes to 7 vs 2008 Boston Celtics?

Kobe faced that same team in the same year and he got beat in 6 despite outplaying Lebron vs them.

Well it’s a classic small sample size thing. He shot absolutely terribly and turned the ball over a ton in games 1 and 2. However, he played fantastic defensively in those games. Paul Pierce was his main assignment and in Lebron 2-18 game I think Pierce went like 3-17 himself.

He played well in the second half of the series.

And there wasn’t much help. I think Big Z was the second leading scorer in that series and he had what, 11 a game?

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebrons choke was much worse though tbh.

How can you be said to have "no help" when you play that bad and the series goes to 7 vs 2008 Boston Celtics?

Kobe faced that same team in the same year and he got beat in 6 despite outplaying Lebron vs them.
Joe Johnson took the Celtics to 7 as well, he had more help than Kobe too.

[tpols]

Joe Johnson took the Celtics to 7 as well, he had more help than Kobe too.

In those mutual series vs Boston that year he did. Kobe outproduced JJ by quite a bit and lost earlier.

[ShawkFactory]

In those mutual series vs Boston that year he did. Kobe outproduced JJ by quite a bit and lost earlier.

So pure production and length of series is how we’re determining “help” now? I don’t think that’s a thread you want to pull at

[3ba11]

Overlooking Lebron's worst-ever play in the 07' Finals and 08' ECSF was the foundation for the fraud that was to come later on...

Actually, it was well-documented that Lebron recruited Arenas' sidekick (Hughes) to play with him in 2006, so Lebron stole Arenas' sidekick and then beat him with it - this is when the fraud truly began.

Ultimately, Lebron needed the East all-star and an acquisition that was better than 1990 Pippen on both sides of the ball to make the his first playoffs in 06'... MJ would obviously 3-peat with all that.

[Meticode]

Overlooking Lebron's worst-ever play in the 07' Finals and 08' ECSF was the foundation for the fraud that was to come later on...

Actually, it was well-documented that Lebron recruited Arenas' sidekick (Hughes) to play with him in 2006, so Lebron stole Arenas' sidekick and then beat him with it - this is when the fraud truly began.

Ultimately, Lebron needed the East all-star and an acquisition that was better than 1990 Pippen on both sides of the ball to make the his first playoffs in 06'... MJ would obviously 3-peat with all that.

At no point in his career was Larry Hughes better than 1990 Scottie Pippen.

[And1AllDay]

Shooting 0/8 in the 4th while being defended at times by this guy.

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/a0/b8/c1/a0b8c12eb75f7c613854af9818fbd137.jpg

CHOKE!

+1

mikey is a choker