Rank these Hal of Fame players

[L.Kizzle]

I separated them by position, please rank them.

SHOOTING GUARD
Paul Westphal
David Thompson
Sidney Moncrief
Mitch Richmond
Vince Carter

POINT GUARD
Dave Bing
Dennis Johnson
Maurice Cheeks
Tim Hardaway
Tony Parker

CENTER
Walt Bellamy
Zelmo Beaty
Dan Issel
Jack Sikma
Dikembe Mutombo

POWER FORWARD
Gus Johnson
Connie Hawkins
Ralph Sampson
Chris Webber
Pau Gasol

SMALL FORWARD
Lou Hudson
Bob Dandridge
Jamal Wilkes
Alex English
Chris Mullin

[SouBeachTalents]

Did you genuinely believe posters on this board were about to get into a nuanced discussion about the likes of Lou Hudson, Walt Bellamy, or Zelmo Beaty? You are fvcking niave :lol

You've been posting here 20 years, you should know your audience better by now.

[FKAri]

Connie Hawkins had all-time talent. For various reasons that weren't entirely in his control it didn't quite work out for him. He's been forgotten about since those who saw him live are all but gone.

[Phoenix]

The majority of this board cannot reasonably talk about any player before 2000, let alone some of the guys you're referring to. You're expecting some 25 year old to rank Vince Carter and Paul Westphal?

[sdot_thadon]

I'll give sg a shot:

Vince
Moncrief( my heart is telling me he should be 1st but it's close)
Thompson
Mitch
Westphal

[sdot_thadon]

The majority of this board cannot reasonably talk about any player before 2000, let alone some of the guys you're referring to. You're expecting some 25 year old to rank Vince Carter and Paul Westphal?

Agree. It's a chance for some young guys to learn about some old guys.

[L.Kizzle]

Did you genuinely believe posters on this board were about to get into a nuanced discussion about the likes of Lou Hudson, Walt Bellamy, or Zelmo Beaty? You are fvcking niave :lol

You've been posting here 20 years, you should know your audience better by now.
Well, we need too. I'm tired of seeing the same discussions lol.

[L.Kizzle]

Did you genuinely believe posters on this board were about to get into a nuanced discussion about the likes of Lou Hudson, Walt Bellamy, or Zelmo Beaty? You are fvcking niave :lol

You've been posting here 20 years, you should know your audience better by now.
Well, we need too. I'm tired of seeing the same discussions lol.

[RRR3]

Did you genuinely believe posters on this board were about to get into a nuanced discussion about the likes of Lou Hudson, Walt Bellamy, or Zelmo Beaty? You are fvcking niave :lol

You've been posting here 20 years, you should know your audience better by now.
I’m sure Kblaze has seen them play, although only in old footage he’s collected.

[Phoenix]

Well, we need too. I'm tired of seeing the same discussions lol.

I agree, but what frame of reference are they using beyond looking at stat pages to see what they did( which is pretty much what most of us do when assessing the likes of Wilt, Russell, West etc). The number of people here who can give valuable commentary on players that far back are in the decided minority. You had a guy like ( think his name was Jabber?) who very clearly saw Wilt. Haven't seen him post in years. I think Jasper is 60+, I get the impression Blaze is early 50s. Not many around to argue Dave Bing and Tim Hardaway.

[L.Kizzle]

I agree, but what frame of reference are they using beyond looking at stat pages to see what they did( which is pretty much what most of us do when assessing the likes of Wilt, Russell, West etc). The number of people here who can give valuable commentary on players that far back are in the decided minority. You had a guy like ( think his name was Jabber?) who very clearly saw Wilt. Haven't seen him post in years. I think Jasper is 60+, I get the impression Blaze is early 50s. Not many around to argue Dave Bing and Tim Hardaway.
I've never seen Magic or Bird play and only say Jordan's 2nd 3 peat era but still debate them. It's as easy as research.

The best music made was clearly before I was born. I mean, I've come to that conclusion by listening to music.

[Phoenix]

I've never seen Magic or Bird play and only say Jordan's 2nd 3 peat era but still debate them. It's as easy as research.

The best music made was clearly before I was born. I mean, I've come to that conclusion by listening to music.

You can very easily find old motown music from the 60's and listen to it as intently as something from today and draw informed conclusions on it. Any kid today can listen to Michael Jackson's albums and opinionate on them vs whatever they listen to now.

We have comparatively much less footage from 60's/70's NBA beyond youtube clips to compare to today's players. There actually are full 80's NBA games up so you can get at least a decent glimpse of Magic and Bird. Then bear in mind you've got a generation of young people who think anything before 2000 sucks ( the 'we done with the 90's! meme was popular for a reason), so I wouldn't expect many to care about researching most of the names you're listing. Anyone who played in an era where you're penalized for carrying/palming/traveling which limits the bag a modern player can use is inherently less skilled as far as the average zoomer goes. They watch Jordan mostly play right-handed and nope out preferring James Harden do a 5 step step-back without need for a passport.

Frankly, there are better places than here to have really good basketball conversation. These is more of a casual spot to shoot the shit and drop something relatively serious once every 10 posts because your brain is begging to be used.

[L.Kizzle]

You can very easily find old motown music from the 60's and listen to it as intently as something from today and draw informed conclusions on it. Any kid today can listen to Michael Jackson's albums and opinionate on them vs whatever they listen to now.

We have comparatively much less footage from 60's/70's NBA beyond youtube clips to compare to today's players. There actually are full 80's NBA games up so you can get at least a decent glimpse of Magic and Bird. Then bear in mind you've got a generation of young people who think anything before 2000 sucks ( the 'we done with the 90's! meme was popular for a reason), so I wouldn't expect many to care about researching most of the names you're listing. Anyone who played in an era where you're penalized for carrying/palming/traveling which limits the bag a modern player can use is inherently less skilled as far as the average zoomer goes. They watch Jordan mostly play right-handed and nope out preferring James Harden do a 5 step step-back without need for a passport.

Frankly, there are better places than here to have really good basketball conversation. These is more of a casual spot to shoot the shit and drop something relatively serious once every 10 posts because your brain is begging to be used.

The We Done With the 90s guy is obviously a troll. He played college ball in the early 2000s and couldn't cut it. Which means he grew up watching 90s basketball.

[Phoenix]

The We Done With the 90s guy is obviously a troll. He played college ball in the early 2000s and couldn't cut it. Which means he grew up watching 90s basketball.

But that doesn't dismiss that it clearly caught on with younger audiences to push the 'modern game is better/players are more skilled' narrative. My point wasn't about who it originated from.

I don't disagree with the premise, bro. I'm just saying, if you look at some of the posts on this forum it's like expecting a fish to climb a tree.

[Nowoco]

Why would anyone care what other people rank these players? Literally nothing anyone could say would be interesting.

[Phoenix]

Why would anyone care what other people rank these players? Literally nothing anyone could say would be interesting.

That's kind of what I'm saying. Most people here can't articulate in any meaningful way who should be ranked higher between Mitch Richmond and David Thompson.

[L.Kizzle]

Why would anyone care what other people rank these players? Literally nothing anyone could say would be interesting.

Why wouldn't it be interesting? Would another LeBron thread be more interesting for you?

[Norcaliblunt]

Ranking players is tired and old OP.

I don’t care if it’s new young players or old forgotten players. The constant need to rank players is boring as ****, and futile.

[John8204]

Screw you guys this is an awesome thread...

SHOOTING GUARD
Paul Westphal
David Thompson
Sidney Moncrief
Mitch Richmond
Vince Carter

1. Sidney Moncrief
2. David Thompson
3. Mitch Richmond
4. Vice Carter
5. Paul Westphal

POINT GUARD
Dave Bing
Dennis Johnson
Maurice Cheeks
Tim Hardaway
Tony Parker

1. Dennis Johnspn
2. Tony Parker
3. Dave Bing
4. Maurice Cheeks
5. Tim Hardaway

CENTER
Walt Bellamy
Zelmo Beaty
Dan Issel
Jack Sikma
Dikembe Mutombo

1. Dan Ussell
2. Dikembe Mutombo
3. Jack SIkma
4. Walt Bellamy
5. Zelmo Beaty

POWER FORWARD
Gus Johnson
Connie Hawkins
Ralph Sampson
Chris Webber
Pau Gasol


1. Chris Webber
2. Pau Gasol
3. Connie Hawkins
4. Ralph Sampson
5. Gus Johnson

SMALL FORWARD
Lou Hudson
Bob Dandridge
Jamal Wilkes
Alex English
Chris Mullin

1. Alex English
2. Chris Mullin
3. Lou Hudson
4. Bob Dandridge
5. Jamal Wilkes

[L.Kizzle]

Screw you guys this is an awesome thread...

SHOOTING GUARD
Paul Westphal
David Thompson
Sidney Moncrief
Mitch Richmond
Vince Carter

1. Sidney Moncrief
2. David Thompson
3. Mitch Richmond
4. Vice Carter
5. Paul Westphal

POINT GUARD
Dave Bing
Dennis Johnson
Maurice Cheeks
Tim Hardaway
Tony Parker

1. Dennis Johnspn
2. Tony Parker
3. Dave Bing
4. Maurice Cheeks
5. Tim Hardaway

CENTER
Walt Bellamy
Zelmo Beaty
Dan Issel
Jack Sikma
Dikembe Mutombo

1. Dan Ussell
2. Dikembe Mutombo
3. Jack SIkma
4. Walt Bellamy
5. Zelmo Beaty

POWER FORWARD
Gus Johnson
Connie Hawkins
Ralph Sampson
Chris Webber
Pau Gasol


1. Chris Webber
2. Pau Gasol
3. Connie Hawkins
4. Ralph Sampson
5. Gus Johnson

SMALL FORWARD
Lou Hudson
Bob Dandridge
Jamal Wilkes
Alex English
Chris Mullin

1. Alex English
2. Chris Mullin
3. Lou Hudson
4. Bob Dandridge
5. Jamal Wilkes
Surprised Westphal is last. He's the only one of the SGs to lead his team to the Finals and has three 1st Team selections. The other four have 3 combined.

Dan Issel has only 1 All-Star appearance and he's the top

[John8204]

Surprised Westphal is last. He's the only one of the SGs to lead his team to the Finals and has three 1st Team selections. The other four have 3 combined.

Dan Issel has only 1 All-Star appearance and he's the top

That was the team that was basically .500 and the game Rick Barry threw to get them to the finals. Dave Thompson came from the NC State team which maybe the greatest championship in NCAA history. Vince Carter has the seasons played record and Mitch Richmond was always a fairly solid scorer.

As for Dan Issel, when he retired he was top five in points behind Kareem, Wilt, and Dr. J. He has 1 NBA All-Star appearance but 6 ABA all-Star spots.

[pandiani17]

That was the team that was basically .500 and the game Rick Barry threw to get them to the finals. Dave Thompson came from the NC State team which maybe the greatest championship in NCAA history. Vince Carter has the seasons played record and Mitch Richmond was always a fairly solid scorer.

As for Dan Issel, when he retired he was top five in points behind Kareem, Wilt, and Dr. J. He has 1 NBA All-Star appearance but 6 ABA all-Star spots.

Thanks for your rankings, I like discussing players from the old days. One question, you ranked Moncrief at number 1. What are the reasons behind that? Was he really that good?

[John8204]

Thanks for your rankings, I like discussing players from the old days. One question, you ranked Moncrief at number 1. What are the reasons behind that? Was he really that good?

Post season record, in seven playoff series he knocked out a murderers row of opponents.

83 - Bird
84 - Dominique
85 - Jordan
86 - Dr. J
87 - Barkley
88 -
89 - Malone

Also I think the Bucks swept the Celtics when they had Bird/Parish/McHale/Maxwell/Archibald. I don't have the strongest take on the SG's. I just think Thompson and Moncreif would be 1 and 2 based on who they beat on small market teams.

[Xiao Yao You]

Post season record, in seven playoff series he knocked out a murderers row of opponents.

83 - Bird
84 - Dominique
85 - Jordan
86 - Dr. J
87 - Barkley
88 -
89 - Malone

Also I think the Bucks swept the Celtics when they had Bird/Parish/McHale/Maxwell/Archibald. I don't have the strongest take on the SG's. I just think Thompson and Moncreif would be 1 and 2 based on who they beat on small market teams.

Who their teams beat. Maybe they had better teams around them?

[John8204]

Who their teams beat. Maybe they had better teams around them?

Fair point, but I believe Moncrief was the guy who was covering Bird, Jordan, and Barkley which is enough for me to take him over that field of players. And we're also talking NC State and the Milwaulkee Bucks, the year NC State won the title they had to win the ACC tournament to qualify and then they went onto to NCAA title. Which meant they knocked out Michael Jordan in one tournament and Hakeem Olajuwon in the other.

[BarberSchool]

Did you genuinely believe posters on this board were about to get into a nuanced discussion about the likes of Lou Hudson, Walt Bellamy, or Zelmo Beaty? You are fvcking niave :lol

You've been posting here 20 years, you should know your audience better by now.Word.

We appreciate the effort, OP.
But no can do.

[Jasper]

pau was a Center

Bellamy was a PF

[pandiani17]

Post season record, in seven playoff series he knocked out a murderers row of opponents.

83 - Bird
84 - Dominique
85 - Jordan
86 - Dr. J
87 - Barkley
88 -
89 - Malone

Also I think the Bucks swept the Celtics when they had Bird/Parish/McHale/Maxwell/Archibald. I don't have the strongest take on the SG's. I just think Thompson and Moncreif would be 1 and 2 based on who they beat on small market teams.

Thanks for the info. I think I read here that the Bucks won more regular season games in the 80s than nobody else. It was surprising for me, because people usually mention the Celtics, Sixers, Pistons, Lakers or Bulls as the juggernauts of the 80s.

[pandiani17]

Fair point, but I believe Moncrief was the guy who was covering Bird, Jordan, and Barkley which is enough for me to take him over that field of players. And we're also talking NC State and the Milwaulkee Bucks, the year NC State won the title they had to win the ACC tournament to qualify and then they went onto to NCAA title. Which meant they knocked out Michael Jordan in one tournament and Hakeem Olajuwon in the other.

I think you are mixing up information. Moncrief was not in the NC State team that beat the Phi Slamma Jamma in 1983. Sydeny Lowe, Dereck Wittenburg, Lorenzo Charles, etc. were on that team. I think the poster was referring to David Thompson's NC State stint (1971-1975), where they beat a loaded Maryland team to win the ACC crown and the NCAA tournament ticket and then the UCLA dynasty who had Bill Walton at the time.

[Xiao Yao You]

I think you are mixing up information. Moncrief was not in the NC State team that beat the Phi Slamma Jamma in 1983. Sydeny Lowe, Dereck Wittenburg, Lorenzo Charles, etc. were on that team. I think the poster was referring to David Thompson's NC State stint (1971-1975), where they beat a loaded Maryland team to win the ACC crown and the NCAA tournament ticket and then the UCLA dynasty who had Bill Walton at the time.

No love for their best player thurl bailey?

[Xiao Yao You]

pau was a Center

Bellamy was a PF

Pau was more of a 4. I thought bellamy was a center but before my time

[L.Kizzle]

pau was a Center

Bellamy was a PF

Walt was definitely a center. Pau played both.

[pandiani17]

No love for their best player thurl bailey?

I was just writing players as they came to my mind. Actually, I mostly know them from the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary, therefore I don't know who was the best player, the highest scorer, the best rebounder, etc.