Jokic is the 4th best player of all time

[StrongLurk]

https://youtu.be/Q5roqoxL2qw

defensive genius :oldlol: more like the Luka Doncic of Centers :confusedshrug:

Anyone can do this to any player. It's easy to cherry pick plays to make videos and fake narrative.

Jokic's peak is one of the top 5 most impactful peaks on record. It's not debatable.

[ImKobe]

Anyone can do this to any player. It's easy to cherry pick plays to make videos and fake narrative.

Jokic's peak is one of the top 5 most impactful peaks on record. It's not debatable.

half the plays are like from one game lol and a Game 7 at that.


I might even agree with the peak sentiment in terms of his production but he's an average defender and it's reflected in his team's defense being average or worse for most of his career and he's had solid players around him. Him and Murray are not good defenders and adding Russ wasn't going to help either. Thing is though an ATG Center should be great defensively or that's usually how it goes but he's the exception.

[RRR3]

Jesus that video is damning. But but his DPBM!!!!!

[Mask the Embiid]

https://media4.giphy.com/media/fCSUEW16Ki4j96DRpU/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952u6kr5cfgqhk3o2wjyoual2rehxth tx2s2u4x0ba2&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g



and anyone who takes that the wrong way....you know why they take it the wrong way

[hold this L]

- Most points conceded ever in a an NBA playoff half.
- 16/19 FG made in the paint at the half.


He's one of the best offensive weapons in NBA history but a terrible defender.

[Neal Romer]

- Most points conceded ever in a an NBA playoff half.
- 16/19 FG made in the paint at the half.


He's one of the best offensive weapons in NBA history but a terrible defender.


I was gonna make a post about "10 years of on/off data says one thing, but one half of basketball says another, how could you think..."

But at some point you have to let people be fools. I cant make this poster more intelligent. I can correct him on one stupidity but tomorrow there will be another. And another the next day and on and on. I'd end up spending a life time.

Ive gotta be willing to let people be stupid now. I cant invest the time. I wont argue.

[warriorfan]

Jokic and Curry are like mirrors of themselves from opposite ends of the positional line up spectrum.

Both offensive dynamos, Yolk more consistent, Chef more explosive, both above average defense impact despite an incorrect stigma that exists.

Both top 10 GOATs at the end of their careers. Guys like Magic and Bird are kind of slipping a little because you can't cry defense there when we pull the playoff numbers.

It’s pretty true


- Most points conceded ever in a an NBA playoff half.
- 16/19 FG made in the paint at the half.


He's one of the best offensive weapons in NBA history but a terrible defender.

He’s not a bad defender. He’s decent.

Some do the same thing they do with Curry, he has physical limitations so people assume he’s Steve Nash on D when really he’s above average. Same with Jokic where they act like he’s worse than Charles Barkley on D when he’s actually not.

[hold this L]

It’s pretty true



He’s not a bad defender. He’s decent.

Some do the same thing they do with Curry, he has physical limitations so people assume he’s Steve Nash on D when really he’s above average. Same with Jokic where they act like he’s worse than Charles Barkley on D when he’s actually not.
The GM should have focused to give him defenders instead of more hoopers because of his limitations. People do the same with guards but not being a good defender at center is far more pivotal than other areas.

Denver needs to pack MPJ this summer for Wiggins and 1-2 picks. One of the best POA defenders in the league who can score 13-16 at solid efficiency.

[warriorfan]

The GM should have focused to give him defenders instead of more hoopers because of his limitations. People do the same with guards but not being a good defender at center is far more pivotal than other areas.

Denver needs to pack MPJ this summer for Wiggins and 1-2 picks. One of the best POA defenders in the league who can score 13-16 at solid efficiency.

I agree. Nuggets probably could have done better. But the new CBA thing with the aprons make it really hard.

[ImKobe]

4th best player ever (who is Bill Belichick on defense BTW) gave up 87 points in a half and got blown out almost by a historic margin. Apparently he's better than Hakeem (who was a basic iso scorer and didn't elevate his team).

[plowking]

- Most points conceded ever in a an NBA playoff half.
- 16/19 FG made in the paint at the half.


He's one of the best offensive weapons in NBA history but a terrible defender.

He isn't even close to a terrible defender. Above average, and that was on full display in the Clippers series. Kawhi and Powell didn't ever really take him on due to his length and size.

Such a lazy narrative because he is a big white a-typical player.

The idiots like ImKobe calling him the Luka Doncic of 5 men is idiotic. Luka is a flat out terrible defender, where as Jokic doesn't even come close to that.

[StrongLurk]

This is how you know Jokic is a GOAT already.

He'll have 9 amazing games in a row, a bad 10th game, and the sky is falling down lol.

The problem with nitpicking like this is that you can literally nitpick every all time great. Every single player in the top 10 has bad playoff games, series, etc.

[tpols]

4th best player ever (who is Bill Belichick on defense BTW) gave up 87 points in a half and got blown out almost by a historic margin. Apparently he's better than Hakeem (who was a basic iso scorer and didn't elevate his team).

Denver already got the split and HCA now. They sold that game. Doesn't matter whether you lose by 1 or 50. Next game is clean slate and @ home. :rockon:

[Baller234]

This is how you know Jokic is a GOAT already.

He'll have 9 amazing games in a row, a bad 10th game, and the sky is falling down lol.

The problem with nitpicking like this is that you can literally nitpick every all time great. Every single player in the top 10 has bad playoff games, series, etc.

Lol that's not how it works guy. Joker's book is still being written. Sure Jordan probably had some rare off nights but we know how the story ends so it doesn't matter. 6 finals, 6 wins, 6 FMVP's.

You have no idea how this is all going to end for Joker. The Nuggets might lose this series in horrific fashion. You guys need to ease up on the GOAT talk because you're putting impossible standards on him.

And again I say this as a fan of Joker who's rooting for Denver in that series.

[StrongLurk]

Lol that's not how it works guy. Joker's book is still being written. Sure Jordan probably had some rare off nights but we know how the story ends so it doesn't matter. 6 finals, 6 wins, 6 FMVP's.

You have no idea how this is all going to end for Joker. The Nuggets might lose this series in horrific fashion. You guys need to ease up on the GOAT talk because you're putting impossible standards on him.

And again I say this as a fan of Joker who's rooting for Denver in that series.

I'm saying A GOAT, not THE GOAT.

Nowadays, saying "a GOAT" generally means a generational/top-10 like talent, which is what Jokic 100% is.

[Baller234]

I'm saying A GOAT, not THE GOAT.

Nowadays, saying "a GOAT" generally means a generational/top-10 like talent, which is what Jokic 100% is.

Lol you can't be in the GOAT debate if you don't have a claim for being greatest of all time.

He is MANY rings away from being able to make that claim :oldlol:


I would say Jokic right now is a GOHT (greatest of HIS time) with room to improve.

[StrongLurk]

Lol you can't be in the GOAT debate if you don't have a claim for being greatest of all time.

He is MANY rings away from being able to make that claim :oldlol:


I would say Jokic right now is a GOHT (greatest of HIS time) with room to improve.

Well I explained that the bolded is exactly what I meant. You just worded it differently.

[hold this L]

He isn't even close to a terrible defender. Above average, and that was on full display in the Clippers series. Kawhi and Powell didn't ever really take him on due to his length and size.

Such a lazy narrative because he is a big white a-typical player.

The idiots like ImKobe calling him the Luka Doncic of 5 men is idiotic. Luka is a flat out terrible defender, where as Jokic doesn't even come close to that.

That's fair, he's nowhere near as bad as Luka. I think the issue is that he plays the center position. So even if he's not as bad, it has a strong effect on the team. Denver GM needs to put more defensive players around him this summer. Their offense might suffer but they will have a much more well rounded team for championship runs.

[k0kakw0rld]

Denver already got the split and HCA now. They sold that game. Doesn't matter whether you lose by 1 or 50. Next game is clean slate and @ home. :rockon:
We gon a act like OKC didn't give away game 1?

Denver are a solid team but OKC are more than capable to win a game or 2 in Denver.

[tpols]

We gon a act like OKC didn't give away game 1?

Denver are a solid team but OKC are more than capable to win a game or 2 in Denver.

Chokers gonna choke. Could say same thing about Boston and Cleveland with how they gave up leads at last second. The thunder are better because of their bench. But still gotta do it and win it. Lesser teams have won because of a choke. Like 2011 NBA Finals.

[kawhileonard2]

Imo these guys are in the true GOAT tier peak

Jordan
LeBron
Kareem
Hakeem
Shaq
Wilt
Jokic

I'm not sure where I'd rank Jokic amongst these guys yet, but I agree with OP that he belongs.

Kawhi

[04mzwach]

Jokic will get the Wade treatment probably. Wade arguably the best SG of all time but beceause he came after they'll never give him GOAT status. It has nothing to do with skill or accolades.

[SouBeachTalents]

Jokic will get the Wade treatment probably. Wade arguably the best SG of all time but beceause he came after they'll never give him GOAT status. It has nothing to do with skill or accolades.
Lol.

You're dead wrong on the rest too as Jokic has been remarkably durable for a man of his stature while even in his prime, Wade was consistently getting injured. He's also a 3x MVP, has been considered the BITW for 4-5 years now, and he has Jordan/LeBron level stats and advanced metrics, all things Wade never achieved. It was frankly just a terrible analogy all around.

The best comparison for Wade is Kawhi, both injury prone guys who peak for peak were better than a lot of the guys they'll end up being ranked behind.

[Baller234]

Jokic will get the Wade treatment probably. Wade arguably the best SG of all time but beceause he came after they'll never give him GOAT status. It has nothing to do with skill or accolades.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/J2DYCDA15pTau86IGr/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9528xg3dbkx235jl3t1hfywxr700qb1 guqiy6rlu7ax&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[GOBB]

Caruso “hold my beer”

[BarberSchool]

He is not.
NBA loses either way with their MVP pick this year.

- A chubby no rim protection, all time great offensive maestro, with a very strange looking, but extremely effective game.

- A skinny, gay, super efficient version of Harden with way less 3’s and much less impressive passing. And a woman’s face.

[k0kakw0rld]

Jokic being guarded by Caruso should make people re-think. The way LeBron was crucified being guarded by JJ Barea and outs cored by Jason Terry.

[k0kakw0rld]

He is not.
NBA loses either way with their MVP pick this year.

- A chubby no rim protection, all time great offensive maestro, with a very strange looking, but extremely effective game.

- A skinny, gay, super efficient version of Harden with way less 3’s and much less impressive passing. And a woman’s face.
You are a moron. Acting like you are some type of eye candy. You watching basketball to see who's sexy or nah? Are you dumb?

[StrongLurk]

Jokic being guarded by Caruso should make people re-think. The way LeBron was crucified being guarded by JJ Barea and outs cored by Jason Terry.

Nah, it shouldn't. Caruso is an all-nba defender and OKC arguably has the best defense over the last 25 years. They have a ton of elite defenders and Jokic still managed 28/14/6 on 59.2 TS%.

Guys like MJ, Kareem, Lebron, etc have all had many worse playoff series.

[k0kakw0rld]

He is not.
NBA loses either way with their MVP pick this year.

- A chubby no rim protection, all time great offensive maestro, with a very strange looking, but extremely effective game.

- A skinny, gay, super efficient version of Harden with way less 3’s and much less impressive passing. And a woman’s face.
You are a moron. Acting like you are some type of eye candy. You watching basketball to see who's sexy or nah? Are you dumb?

[hold this L]

Imagine being 7 foot and being defended by Carusso straight up and passing it off to other players in a game 7. All the while people calling you the best offensive player of all time. :lol

[highwhey]

i'm sorry but if you're 7'1 and get shut down by caruso (6'5) in a game 7 playoffs match, you are not the 4th best player of all time no matter your stats throughout the years.

[StrongLurk]

Imagine being 7 foot and being defended by Carusso straight up and passing it off to other players in a game 7. All the while people calling you the best offensive player of all time. :lol

Caruso is an all-nba defender and OKC arguably has the best defense over the last 25 years. They have a ton of elite defenders and Jokic still managed 28/14/6 on 59.2 TS%.

Guys like MJ, Kareem, Lebron, etc, have all had many worse playoff series.

[StrongLurk]

i'm sorry but if you're 7'1 and get shut down by caruso (6'5) in a game 7 playoffs match, you are not the 4th best player of all time no matter your stats throughout the years.

Caruso is an all-nba defender and OKC arguably has the best defense over the last 25 years. They have a ton of elite defenders and Jokic still managed 28/14/6 on 59.2 TS%.

Guys like MJ, Kareem, Lebron, etc have all had many worse playoff series.

[SouBeachTalents]

Caruso is an all-nba defender and OKC arguably has the best defense over the last 25 years. They have a ton of elite defenders and Jokic still managed 28/14/6 on 59.2 TS%.

Guys like MJ, Kareem, Lebron, etc have all had many worse playoff series.
Why are you 3balling and copying and pasting this same post over and over :lol

[StrongLurk]

Why are you 3balling and copying and pasting this same post over and over :lol

It's a factual rebuttal to people's nonsensical posting :confusedshrug:.

Besides, everyone has forgotten the whole point of this thread, which is based on impact stats and eye test.

Everyone is just dumb posting about wins/losses with no context, which is not what this thread is about.

Jokic is getting the Lebron treatment, which only solidifies Jok's GOATness.

[highwhey]

Why are you 3balling and copying and pasting this same post over and over :lol

Caruso is an all-nba defender and OKC arguably has the best defense over the last 25 years. They have a ton of elite defenders and Jokic still managed 28/14/6 on 59.2 TS%.

Guys like MJ, Kareem, Lebron, etc have all had many worse playoff series.

[3ba11]

Bullshit

We can put this crap to bed

He's like the center version of lebron - he needs to monopolize the whole offense and it can marginalize teammates, hence his cast showing flashes of greatness (Murray's 23' run) but otherwise mostly sucking during their entire tenure alongside Jokic - this differs from lower APG players and dominant scorers like Curry, MJ, Kobe, Shaq, Bird, etc - their teammates were known for coming through

[Keno]

It's a factual rebuttal to people's nonsensical posting :confusedshrug:.

Besides, everyone has forgotten the whole point of this thread, which is based on impact stats and eye test.

Everyone is just dumb posting about wins/losses with no context, which is not what this thread is about.

Jokic is getting the Lebron treatment, which only solidifies Jok's GOATness.

It seems like Jokic's performance and impact decline significantly from the regular season to the playoffs. I've only briefly checked this out (excluding his early regular-season years), but I'm noting this because prime lebron was the opposite, I know you're comparing something else with LeBron, but just wanted to mention.

[StrongLurk]

It seems like Jokic's performance and impact decline significantly from the regular season to the playoffs. I've only briefly checked this out (excluding his early regular-season years), but I'm noting this because prime lebron was the opposite, I know you're comparing something else with LeBron, but just wanted to mention.

:roll:

Jokic has some of the best impact/advanced stats of all time in the playoffs, in fact he's number 1 all time in a few of them.

But yeah, he TOTALLY has his impact decline in the playoffs...man yall just say anything.

[StrongLurk]

It seems like Jokic's performance and impact decline significantly from the regular season to the playoffs. I've only briefly checked this out (excluding his early regular-season years), but I'm noting this because prime lebron was the opposite, I know you're comparing something else with LeBron, but just wanted to mention.

:roll:

Jokic has some of the best impact/advanced stats of all time in the playoffs, in fact he's number 1 all time in a few of them.

But yeah, he TOTALLY has his impact decline in the playoffs...man yall just say anything.

[RRR3]

:roll:

Jokic has some of the best impact/advanced stats of all time in the playoffs, in fact he's number 1 all time in a few of them.

But yeah, he TOTALLY has his impact decline in the playoffs...man yall just say anything.
Alex. Caruso.

[StrongLurk]

Quick refresher for everyone who can't read.

My OP states "Don't care about "resumes" or accolades at this point. Jokic is above all of that just like MJ/Lebron were. MJ was crowned best ever before his career finished. Lebron hit that same pedestal. Jokic is there too. Kareem, MJ, Lebron, Jokic - 4 best players based on "on the court" ability."

Like I said already, resumes/accolades are secondary items. Impact stats and eye test put Jokic on the Mt. Rushmore GOAT TIER.

[RRR3]

Quick refresher for everyone who can't read.

My OP states "Don't care about "resumes" or accolades at this point. Jokic is above all of that just like MJ/Lebron were. MJ was crowned best ever before his career finished. Lebron hit that same pedestal. Jokic is there too. Kareem, MJ, Lebron, Jokic - 4 best players based on "on the court" ability."

Like I said already, resumes/accolades are secondary items. Impact stats and eye test put Jokic on the Mt. Rushmore GOAT TIER.
https://cdn.nba.com/headshots/nba/latest/1040x760/1627936.png

[hold this L]

Caruso is an all-nba defender and OKC arguably has the best defense over the last 25 years. They have a ton of elite defenders and Jokic still managed 28/14/6 on 59.2 TS%.

Guys like MJ, Kareem, Lebron, etc have all had many worse playoff series.
Those are highly misleading stats. He went nuclear (honestly ATG performances) on two games and was total dogshit on 3 others, two of which OKC won that were winnable. He had a 3 game stretch shooting 48%.

[hold this L]

Caruso is an all-nba defender and OKC arguably has the best defense over the last 25 years. They have a ton of elite defenders and Jokic still managed 28/14/6 on 59.2 TS%.

Guys like MJ, Kareem, Lebron, etc, have all had many worse playoff series.

In a website that is run by insane player stans, I have to say I'm impressed what a pathetic NBA fan you are :lol You're trying to justify a 7 footer getting locked up by a average sized guard since.. he's an all-NBA defender. In the same topic you created about him being the 4th best player of all time.

You're a complete retard. :facepalm

[RRR3]

In a website that is run by insane player stans, I have to say I'm impressed what a pathetic NBA fan you are :lol You're trying to justify a 7 footer getting locked up by a average sized guard since.. he's an all-NBA defender. In the same topic you created about him being the 4th best player of all time.

You're a complete retard. :facepalm
:roll:

[highwhey]

Those are highly misleading stats. He went nuclear (honestly ATG performances) on two games and was total dogshit on 3 others, two of which OKC won that were winnable. He had a 3 game stretch shooting 48%.

i'm just copying what OP says bc he is absolutely retarded

[tontoz]

It is amusing that people are saying Jokic got "locked up" since he scored only 20. Just shows the standard he is held to.

Has anyone talked about Murray taking 16 shots to score 13 points?

[highwhey]

It is amusing that people are saying Jokic got "locked up" since he scored only 20. Just shows the standard he is held to.

Has anyone talked about Murray taking 16 shots to score 13 points?

it's ok to admit jokic choked. getting locked up by a 6'5 guard is embarrassing in a game 7, well in any game, but especially in an elimination game. no need to shift blame to teammates.

[rmt]

Caruso is an all-nba defender and OKC arguably has the best defense over the last 25 years. They have a ton of elite defenders and Jokic still managed 28/14/6 on 59.2 TS%.

Guys like MJ, Kareem, Lebron, etc have all had many worse playoff series.

Caruso was on Jokic for long stretches of the game - single coverage giving up 6 inches and 100 lbs.

[tontoz]

it's ok to admit jokic choked. getting locked up by a 6'5 guard is embarrassing in a game 7, well in any game, but especially in an elimination game. no need to shift blame to teammates.


Getting locked up usually means scoring under 20 with poor shooting. When did that change? I must have missed the memo.

Feel free to point out any clips where Jokic put the ball on the deck and nobody came to help Caruso.

Here is a clip when the help came late and the result was predictable.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLEmUbnGBrk

[Keno]

:roll:

Jokic has some of the best impact/advanced stats of all time in the playoffs, in fact he's number 1 all time in a few of them.

But yeah, he TOTALLY has his impact decline in the playoffs...man yall just say anything.

hm, I looked into it more and yea, you were right my bad, he only significantly declined from regular season -> playoffs this year (2025), other years he was about the same if not better.

[tontoz]

Caruso was on Jokic for long stretches of the game - single coverage giving up 6 inches and 100 lbs.


Jokic had 20 pts through 3 quarters with high efficiency in spite of all the help Caruso got when Jokic put the ball on the deck. I don't think that is why they were down 25 after 3.

[StrongLurk]

Caruso was on Jokic for long stretches of the game - single coverage giving up 6 inches and 100 lbs.

Imagine thinking Caruso actually guarded Jokic 1-on-1 like this was low IQ 90's ball.

The WHOLE OKC defense schemed for Jokic. In fact, in game 7, they ONLY focused on Jokic because they knew MPJ and Gordon were completely injured and useless.

[StrongLurk]

Those are highly misleading stats. He went nuclear (honestly ATG performances) on two games and was total dogshit on 3 others, two of which OKC won that were winnable. He had a 3 game stretch shooting 48%.

Buddy, do you know how playoff series work? Do you know how averages work? Go think about the basics some more and get back to me.

[StrongLurk]

In a website that is run by insane player stans, I have to say I'm impressed what a pathetic NBA fan you are :lol You're trying to justify a 7 footer getting locked up by a average sized guard since.. he's an all-NBA defender. In the same topic you created about him being the 4th best player of all time.

You're a complete retard. :facepalm

Imagine thinking Caruso actually guarded Jokic 1-on-1 like this was low IQ 90's ball.

The WHOLE OKC defense schemed for Jokic. In fact, in game 7, they ONLY focused on Jokic because they knew MPJ and Gordon were completely injured and useless.

Jokic has never had a single teammate make an all-star, all-defense, or all-nba game.

Curry's whole career has been littered with stacked talent, tons of all-nba/all-defense guys, and even had Kevin Durant completely snatch away two FMVPs from him because Curry kept getting stomped by Lebron.

Jokic with Curry's teammates over the last 12 years has 6 chips and 4 or 5 FMVPs.

Jokic took a 68-win OKC team to a game 7 with an injured MPJ and Aaron Gordon. He had a really good series against an all-time great defense. His TEAM was completely outmatched.

This doesn't take anything away from Jokic, in fact, it continues to validate his GOAT impact.

[highwhey]

Getting locked up usually means scoring under 20 with poor shooting. When did that change? I must have missed the memo.

Feel free to point out any clips where Jokic put the ball on the deck and nobody came to help Caruso.

Here is a clip when the help came late and the result was predictable.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLEmUbnGBrk

you're being dense my guy, but do you. :cheers:

[tontoz]

you're being dense my guy, but do you. :cheers:


No, I am just stating what actually happened. He scored 20 on high efficiency through 3 quarters. That is just a fact but you ignore it because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Looking forward to those Suns-Wizards pic swaps going forward. We can use the extra lottery balls :lol

[highwhey]

No, I am just stating what actually happened. He scored 20 on high efficiency through 3 quarters. That is just a fact but you ignore it because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Looking forward to those Suns-Wizards pic swaps going forward. We can use the extra lottery balls :lol

he choked. he didn't lead his team in that game, often being passive bc caruso was frustrating him. 20pts in an elimination playoff game is good? LOL. not for a 'superstar'.

[tontoz]

he choked. he didn't lead his team in that game, often being passive bc caruso was frustrating him. 20pts in an elimination playoff game is good? LOL. not for a 'superstar'.


Whether it was good or not is debatable. But saying he got shut down is nonsense. He still led the team in scoring and assists as usual.

They weren't winning that game with Gordon and MPJ playing with injuries that would keep them out in the regular season.

[highwhey]

Whether it was good or not is debatable. But saying he got shut down is nonsense. He still led the team in scoring and assists as usual.

They weren't winning that game with Gordon and MPJ playing with injuries that would keep them out in the regular season.

:biggums:

[StrongLurk]

Whether it was good or not is debatable. But saying he got shut down is nonsense. He still led the team in scoring and assists as usual.

They weren't winning that game with Gordon and MPJ playing with injuries that would keep them out in the regular season.

Bro, stop using facts and reality-based assessment. These morons can't handle it.

[GOBB]

In a website that is run by insane player stans, I have to say I'm impressed what a pathetic NBA fan you are :lol You're trying to justify a 7 footer getting locked up by a average sized guard since.. he's an all-NBA defender. In the same topic you created about him being the 4th best player of all time.

You're a complete retard. :facepalm

Burn.

[gengiskhan]

He aint even 14th best GOAT.

next......

[ImKobe]

Whether it was good or not is debatable. But saying he got shut down is nonsense. He still led the team in scoring and assists as usual.

They weren't winning that game with Gordon and MPJ playing with injuries that would keep them out in the regular season.

This is pure delusion.

A guy who averaged a 30-pt triple-double got held to 20 points and 7 assists with 5 turnovers, and you're saying it's DEBATABLE whether he was good? He wasn't shut down even though he only got 1 shot attempt up in the 2nd half? Ok buddy.

[tontoz]

This is pure delusion.

A guy who averaged a 30-pt triple-double got held to 20 points and 7 assists with 5 turnovers, and you're saying it's DEBATABLE whether he was good? He wasn't shut down even though he only got 1 shot attempt up in the 2nd half? Ok buddy.

It was a blowout so he didn't score in the 4th. 20 pts through 3 quarters with a 72% TS is not bad. The 4th quarter was just garbage time. They were down 25 after 3. If the game was competitive then he surely would have kept scoring and been close to his average.

Jokic led the team in scoring and assists. He had a 72% TS while the rest of the team had a TS of 47% but lets pretend that Jokic got shut down. :facepalm

[SouBeachTalents]

It was a blowout so he didn't score in the 4th. 20 pts through 3 quarters with a 72% TS is not bad. The 4th quarter was just garbage time. They were down 25 after 3. If the game was competitive then he surely would have kept scoring and been close to his average.

Jokic led the team in scoring and assists. He had a 72% TS while the rest of the team had a TS of 47% but lets pretend that Jokic got shut down. :facepalm
That's the same guy who I'm sure would insist Kobe's 6/24 was a good game :lol

[ImKobe]

It was a blowout so he didn't score in the 4th. 20 pts through 3 quarters with a 72% TS is not bad. The 4th quarter was just garbage time. They were down 25 after 3. If the game was competitive then he surely would have kept scoring and been close to his average.

Jokic led the team in scoring and assists. He had a 72% TS while the rest of the team had a TS of 47% but lets pretend that Jokic got shut down. :facepalm

He did next to nothing in the 3rd as well bro. 1 shot. They were down 14 at the half, the game was well within reach.

OKC shut him down which means they shut the Denver offense down as they denied him the ball and took it out of his hands when he did have it, thus a team that's overly reliant on one guy could not produce any offense to keep up.

[ImKobe]

That's the same guy who I'm sure would insist Kobe's 6/24 was a good game :lol

It wasn't a good game overall, but Kobe at least finished strong and played great defense. In Jokic's case he did next to nothing after 2 quarters, couldn't adjust his game.

[tontoz]

He did next to nothing in the 3rd as well bro. 1 shot. They were down 14 at the half, the game was well within reach.

OKC shut him down which means they shut the Denver offense down as they denied him the ball and took it out of his hands when he did have it, thus a team that's overly reliant on one guy could not produce any offense to keep up.


Exactly. Joker's teammates were so inept (or injured) that they couldn't make OKC pay for swarming Jokic. The idea that Caruso shut down Jokic is nonsense. He was just the one trying to deny him the ball. He got plenty of help once they passed to Jokic.

That doesn't mean Jokic played bad. What it really means is that he was the only guy OKC was worried about. Their plan was to force everyone else to beat them and it obviously worked.

Ordinarily swarming Jokic is suicidal because he can pick the defense apart with his passing. But Gordon couldn't move without the ball, Porter couldn't make a shot and Murray wasnt bubble Murray. Who was going to make them pay, Russ?

[ImKobe]

Exactly. Joker's teammates were so inept (or injured) that they couldn't make OKC pay for swarming Jokic. The idea that Caruso shut down Jokic is nonsense. He was just the one trying to deny him the ball. He got plenty of help once they passed to Jokic.

That doesn't mean Jokic played bad. What it really means is that he was the only guy OKC was worried about. Their plan was to force everyone else to beat them and it obviously worked.

Ordinarily swarming Jokic is suicidal because he can pick the defense apart with his passing. But Gordon couldn't move without the ball, Porter couldn't make a shot and Murray wasnt bubble Murray. Who was going to make them pay, Russ?

It's ok brother he did not play a good game. Every defense is worried about the opposing team's best player. OKC figured it out and Jokic and the Nuggets didn't have a counter for the defense they were up against. He has his limitations as a big man and they fully exploited it.

[tontoz]

It's ok brother he did not play a good game. Every defense is worried about the opposing team's best player. OKC figured it out and Jokic and the Nuggets didn't have a counter for the defense they were up against. He has his limitations as a big man and they fully exploited it.



Lol they exploited the fact that MPJ and Gordon were playing with injuries they would never play with during the regular season.

Why didn't they " exploit" Jokic before Gordon pulled his hamstring?

[highwhey]

Lol they exploited the fact that MPJ and Gordon were playing with injuries they would never play with during the regular season.

Why didn't they " exploit" Jokic before Gordon pulled his hamstring?

What do his teammates injuries have to do with jokic having a bad game 7? more defensive attention? but he's a superstar

[ImKobe]

Lol they exploited the fact that MPJ and Gordon were playing with injuries they would never play with during the regular season.

Why didn't they " exploit" Jokic before Gordon pulled his hamstring?

Jokic had 3 other sub-par games in that series and Gordon was healthy then. Game 7 wasn't even his worst.

[tontoz]

What do his teammates injuries have to do with jokic having a bad game 7? more defensive attention? but he's a superstar

He dropped 40 not once but twice against the top ranked defense in the league. How many stars have done that?

Two of their top 4 players were playing injured. Of course that allows OKC to focus more on Jokic. However they waited to see how limited Gordon really was before really swarming Jokic.

No star ever is going to score a lot against double and triple teams.

For the series MPJ averaged 7 ppg with a 42% TS. Even with that they still pushed a 68 win team to 7 games.

[tontoz]

Jokic had 3 other sub-par games in that series and Gordon was healthy then. Game 7 wasn't even his worst.

So what are you trying to say? I thought we were talking about OKC " exploiting" Jokic in game 7. What weaknesses did they exploit?

Jokic averaged 28/14 on the series. Does that look like the stats of someone who was "exploited?

Why was a 68 win team taken to 7 games against a 50 win team while they were exploiting Jokic?

[Baller234]

Jesus, the level of delusion is really sad.

Being a fan of an athlete doesn't mean you have to go GOAT or bust. It's okay to be a fan of a guy and be honest about where he stands historically.

I think it's a combination of everyone needing to feel like they witnessed something historic, on top of stat dorks like Bill Simmons and the new school of game analysts who boil everything down to numbers and figures. They had these guys thinking Joker was better than he really was.

[StrongLurk]

So what are you trying to say? I thought we were talking about OKC " exploiting" Jokic in game 7. What weaknesses did they exploit?

Jokic averaged 28/14 on the series. Does that look like the stats of someone who was "exploited?

Why was a 68 win team taken to 7 games against a 50 win team while they were exploiting Jokic?

Tontoz has been hitting everyone with logical takes that are actually based on reality.

People in this thread are desperate to hate on Jokic, but Jokic has an excellent series considering it was against the best defense in a long time AND he was vastly outmatched on team talent/depth.

[ImKobe]

So what are you trying to say? I thought we were talking about OKC " exploiting" Jokic in game 7. What weaknesses did they exploit?

Jokic averaged 28/14 on the series. Does that look like the stats of someone who was "exploited?

Why was a 68 win team taken to 7 games against a 50 win team while they were exploiting Jokic?

Because Denver fluked out Game 1? Because they also won a game in OT where Jokic had 20 points on 25 shots with 6 assists to 8 turnovers? I suppose that was a "good" game as well?

OKC had 74 steals, the most steals in any Playoff series in the modern era. OKC created a lot of turnovers because of how predictable the Denver offense is with how reliant they are on Jokic doing the passing and the bulk of the scoring. They could deny him the ball and use smaller defenders to poke the ball away from him, that's easier vs. a big man who has a higher center of gravity which they exploited. 16 STEALS in Game 7, the most in any Game 7 since the damn 70s. Not only do you get an empty possession on offense but it's almost a guaranteed 2 on the other end.

[tontoz]

Because Denver fluked out Game 1? Because they also won a game in OT where Jokic had 20 points on 25 shots with 6 assists to 8 turnovers? I suppose that was a "good" game as well?

OKC had 74 steals, the most steals in any Playoff series in the modern era. OKC created a lot of turnovers because of how predictable the Denver offense is with how reliant they are on Jokic doing the passing and the bulk of the scoring. They could deny him the ball and use smaller defenders to poke the ball away from him, that's easier vs. a big man who has a higher center of gravity which they exploited. 16 STEALS in Game 7, the most in any Game 7 since the damn 70s. Not only do you get an empty possession on offense but it's almost a guaranteed 2 on the other end.

Fluke wins? How about the games where Denver had 8-9 point leads in the 4th and lost? Do those count as "fluke wins" for OKC or do comebacks only count as flukes for Denver?

A big reason Jokic is so effective is that if you double him he can pass over the defense to find open teammates. The big problem in this series is that MPJ is playing with one arm and is only averaging 7 ppg with a TS of 42%. That made them much easier to defend all series, then in the last game Gordon was playing hurt which made them that much easier to defend.

With a healthy MPJ Denver probably wins in 6.

The only games OKC has lost in the playoffs have been to shorthanded Denver. Why is that?

[ImKobe]

Fluke wins? How about the games where Denver had 8-9 point leads in the 4th and lost? Do those count as "fluke wins" for OKC or do comebacks only count as flukes for Denver?

A big reason Jokic is so effective is that if you double him he can pass over the defense to find open teammates. The big problem in this series is that MPJ is playing with one arm and is only averaging 7 ppg with a TS of 42%. That made them much easier to defend all series, then in the last game Gordon was playing hurt which made them that much easier to defend.

With a healthy MPJ Denver probably wins in 6.

The only games OKC has lost in the playoffs have been to shorthanded Denver. Why is that?

God you're so delusional it's not even worth entertaining. Best of luck.

[tontoz]

God you're so delusional it's not even worth entertaining. Best of luck.

Im delusional? Why is that, because i actually look at the facts?

What injuries was OKC struggling with?

:confusedshrug:

[warriorfan]

OKC is looking like a juggernaut team and MPJ and Gordon were severely limited with injuries.

Anyone who isn’t taking into account the circumstances and trying to paint Jokic in as bad as light possible are just being low iq or pretty blatantly trolling.

Im not even a big Jokic fan but let’s keep shit real.

[ImKobe]

Im delusional? Why is that, because i actually look at the facts?

What injuries was OKC struggling with?

:confusedshrug:

It's not the injuries that caused the Nuggets to struggle offensively... They took away the Jokic-Murray 2 man game but ok. Jokic is not a high turnover player, they made him turn the ball over almost as much as he has ever (his 2nd worst 7-game series), using smaller defenders to limit his ability to handle the ball or even catch it for that matter.

They made the Caruso on Jokic adjustment at the end of Game 6 and had a lot of success with it, almost bringing that game back. They went back to it in G7 and Nuggets had no answer for it.

[tontoz]

It's not the injuries that caused the Nuggets to struggle offensively... They took away the Jokic-Murray 2 man game but ok. Jokic is not a high turnover player, they made him turn the ball over almost as much as he has ever (his 2nd worst 7-game series), using smaller defenders to limit his ability to handle the ball or even catch it for that matter.

They made the Caruso on Jokic adjustment at the end of Game 6 and had a lot of success with it, almost bringing that game back. They went back to it in G7 and Nuggets had no answer for it.

Why didn't they start game 7 with Caruso on Jokic then? Why did they just "let" him drop 17 in the first half?

A big problem for Denver's offense is that their primary 3 pt shooter couldn't shoot. MPJ had 4 games where he didn't make a 3. That makes it a lot easier to defend Denver.

[tontoz]

They made the Caruso on Jokic adjustment at the end of Game 6 and had a lot of success with it, almost bringing that game back. They went back to it in G7 and Nuggets had no answer for it.

Denver scored 61 in the 2nd half of game 6 and won by 12. They extended their lead in the 4th.

:roll:

[Mask the Embiid]

https://media.tenor.com/-5F5WZHReAYAAAAM/alex-caruso-lakers.gif

This is the last time you will see me enter a thread like this because its really no point anymore. This convo is so dead now.

Its ova! its ovaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ladies and gentlemen (kenny smith voice) :oldlol:

[tontoz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLEmUbnGBrk

[highwhey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLEmUbnGBrk

this is you my boy:

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