2 is better than 3?

[Neal Romer]

I saw a stat recently showing Boston has a lower net rating when Brown/Tatum/Porzingis play together than when theyre separated. They seem to be better when at least one of those guys, sometimes even two of them is missing. It doesnt matter which. Obviously KP is out the most but the numbers suggest any one of them missing is a better result than all three playing.

The Lakers too seem to have this issue a bit. Before the Doncic trade, Bron and AR were killing it together. After the trade Reaves missed a few games and Bron and Luka got on a roll. Then Lebron was out and naturally they SUCKED, but to be fair Luka and Reaves did find a rhythm together for a minute. I dont have the numbers for this one but it does feel like the Lakers too are shakier when their three top guys are together than when it's just two.

The Clippers also look more impressive with just Harden, Kawhi and role players than when it was those two plus PG.

Feels like theres just less natural flow when you have three guys who all expect to eat consistently. Instead of just playing against what the defense gives, guys are maybe a little bit distracted by trying to consciously balance each other's touches. You get a bit of a forced concotion.

We saw last year the Mavs won the conference with a two star formula. Meanwhile the Suns have been trash with their three star forrays.

Feels like theres somethin to this.

[warriorfan]

Redundancy is a thing.

There becomes a point where fit works better than talent. Having 3 stars that fit seamless with eachother is not an easy thing to do.

[Neal Romer]

Redundancy is a thing.

There becomes a point where fit works better than talent. Having 3 stars that fit seamless with eachother is not an easy thing to do.


Agreed.

[Phoenix]

Ultimately there's only one ball, and it's easier to have two guys take the majority of shots and surround them with great role players. Having three stars that all eat well so to speak is much harder and really requires the skills and mindsets of the players to jell really well. The best and most recent example being the KD/Steph/Klay Warriors, but that's the exception and not the norm. Look at KD/Harden/Kyrie and KD/Booker/Beal, for various reasons neither of these trios worked out even though the raw offensive talent was there in spades.

Op mentioned something about the Clippers looking better with just Harden and Kawhi and no PG, if I recall something similar happened in Brooklyn where KD and Harden produced better results than when Kyrie was on the floor as well. In most of these cases, when you've got two great perimeter weapons, the third guy should be a big who can clean up the glass, play D, and 'garbage' score without needing plays run for them.

[Neal Romer]

Ultimately there's only one ball, and it's easier to have two guys take the majority of shots and surround them with great role players. Having three stars that all eat well so to speak is much harder and really requires the skills and mindsets of the players to jell really well. The best and most recent example being the KD/Steph/Klay Warriors, but that's the exception and not the norm. Look at KD/Harden/Kyrie and KD/Booker/Beal, for various reasons neither of these trios worked out even though the raw offensive talent was there in spades.

Op mentioned something about the Clippers looking better with just Harden and Kawhi and no PG, if I recall something similar happened in Brooklyn where KD and Harden produced better results than when Kyrie was on the floor as well. In most of these cases, when you've got two great perimeter weapons, the third guy should be a big who can clean up the glass, play D, and 'garbage' score without needing plays run for them.


Yeah. And I dont know I would even count that as the same thing, as Klay isnt really a star WITH the ball in his hands. He was really more of a super role player if you had to classify him within the star/roleplayer dichotomy.

[warriorfan]

Yeah. And I dont know I would even count that as the same thing, as Klay isnt really a star WITH the ball in his hands. He was really more of a super role player if you had to classify him within the star/roleplayer dichotomy.

Pheonix had a very good post that was on point and Yes Klay was a 3 and D guy on steroids basically. Both Steph, Klay, and KD have games that make them very portable in lots of different line ups. There are a laundry list of reasons that can be explained ad nauseam but to keep it short and sweet, all three provide elite spacing and all three don’t require the ball in their hand to be great offensively. This is an outlier not the norm. Off the top of my head the guys who started this trend was the 2008 celtics. But that was also an exception not the norm with a perfect storm of high iq players who complement eachother extremely well.

[Phoenix]

Yeah. And I dont know I would even count that as the same thing, as Klay isnt really a star WITH the ball in his hands. He was really more of a super role player if you had to classify him within the star/roleplayer dichotomy.

Yeah, what really made that all work was two of those guys were perfectly adapt at coming off screens and KD was really the only guy who was more of an iso-centric player. Steph would bring the ball up like a traditional PG then hand it off to Dray, and then the defense has to spend the entire shotclock scanning the court for two historically great 3 point shooters while also worrying about KD who could get his on anyone. Ultimately, all 3 being historically great shooters just gave that team unprecedented spacing. When your third guy can go off for 60 with like a hold time of 30 seconds and 11 dribbles, good luck to the rest of the league.

[Norcaliblunt]

NBA has always had “BIG 3’s”.

And it’s always been a matter of fit.

Magic, Worthy, Kareem
Bird, Mchale, Parish
Duncan, Parker, Ginobili
Chamberlain, West, Baylor

Lots of others.

Everything is about fit. lol

[Full Court]

I'll tell you what, OP. 6 is a whole lot better than 4.

[Real Men Wear Green]

1: "Norman Powell."

2: Although they won the East without him the Finals illustrated the difference Porzingis can make for the Celtics. Basketball doesn't have to be a few stars taking turns. When players work well together multiple stars are an advantage. When Porzingis is hitting the open jumper (and he normally is) opponents have to either let Tatum and Brown attack the paint or give him threes if their center won't leave the paint and when he's involved in pick plays where there's a switch he's unstoppable. KP had missed half the games and Brown had had knee issues in the second half of the season but when the three of them are right they're one of the best offenses in the NBA. And on defense (which of course is always ignored) those three are as good as it gets ) especially among stars).

[Neal Romer]

1: "Norman Powell."

2: Although they won the East without him the Finals illustrated the difference Porzingis can make for the Celtics. Basketball doesn't have to be a few stars taking turns. When players work well together multiple stars are an advantage. When Porzingis is hitting the open jumper (and he normally is) opponents have to either let Tatum and Brown attack the paint or give him threes if their center won't leave the paint and when he's involved in pick plays where there's a switch he's unstoppable. KP had missed half the games and Brown had had knee issues in the second half of the season but when the three of them are right they're one of the best offenses in the NBA. And on defense (which of course is always ignored) those three are as good as it gets ) especially among stars).


1. "Norman Powell" was lighting it up while Kawhi was out. Look at his numbers more recently since Kawhi's been back. Hes not a guy with a big contract and a reputation who expects to get x amount of shots. If anything it proves my point.

2. It was not a personal opinion. It was stated on a broadcast or a pregame somewhere that the Celtics factually have their lowest net rating when JT/JB/KP play together.

Im not saying that stat ends the discussion but it is compelling considering the direction other examples point around the league as well.

You dont have to "defend" the Celtics from every single observation about them. It wasnt an attack. These guys dont know you and wouldnt respect you if they did. You dont have to be that sensitive over them.

[Real Men Wear Green]

1: A season is more than the last 10 games and Powell's salary is only relevant to how the team is built, not what he does on the floor.

2: When I correct you regarding the Celtics it's mainly about not wanting to see your ignorance infect other people.

[Walk on Water]

It is the more dependable shot. Since Butler has come to the Warriors, the fit has been better even though he goes for 2s instead of 3s. Plus he gets free throws, so that makes up for the lack of the 3s. Yes 2 can be better than 3 if you think outside the box.

[90sgoat]

It's the way the NBA works now with the pick and roll being so dominant. Reaves is a great catch and shoot guy, but he is still probably more efficient in the pick and roll, which is much more so for Lebron and Luka, so when you have the 3 in, only Reaves of them can really catch and shoot.

I think Reddick does a good job mostly of staggering their minutes. Their recent slump is more slipping up on defense and Lebron coming back and not being in rythm.

[Neal Romer]

No Tatum no problem :confusedshrug:

[Neal Romer]

No Tatum no prollem mane? :confusedshrug:

[Full Court]

I'll tell you what, OP.











6 is most definitely better than 4.


If you get my drift. :lol