Is the MVP race really that close? Or are they just trying to give it to someone else

[rawimpact]

Because Jokic's triple double season average is crazy... to average 30 on 58% shooting and 41% at the three, 13 reb and 10 assists...

Shai is putting up 33 5 and 6... good in its own right but a big putting up a triple double with that efficiency is just crazy.

The only way to explain why SGA is being pushed is because they dont want to start putting Joker at 30 years old up there with the other guys like lebron and wilt or racism in the NBA.

[SouBeachTalents]

OKC being 16.5 games up on Denver is probably the more logical reason than racism.

[tontoz]

OKC being 16.5 games up on Denver is probably the more logical reason than racism.


Yeah that and SGA is having a monster year statistically as well. He is leading the league in scoring with a TS of 64%. He's only missed 3 games. No load management here.

OKC is a deep team with a lot of young talent but they are 12.7 pts per 100 possessions better with SGA on the court.

[Meticode]

I'd still give it to Jokic. Being a Top 3 seed to win MVP is a thing of the past and the times Jokic won MVP he wasn't a Top 3 seed. He probably won't win it though. Voter fatigue is a thing. Jordan and LeBron should each have at least 8 MVPs.

[rawimpact]

OKC being 16.5 games up on Denver is probably the more logical reason than racism.

Eh... I'm not sure about that anymore. I think it's safe to say regular season record means very little now besides making it into the playoffs. Thunder was also a first seed last year and they got bounced by the 5th seed Mavs in the 2nd round.

[iamgine]

Yes it is that close. I had Jokic earlier in the season but now I have SGA. Voter fatigue is a thing but not in this case.

[FKAri]

It's close. In a vacuum Jokic should have the slight edge but because of SGA almost winning last year and Jokic already having 3, SGA has a significant lead. It's not so much voter fatigue as it is, "it's not fair that SGA came out of these 2 years with 0 MVPs and Jokic got 2."

[Lakers Legend#32]

Ya can't give MVP to someone from Bumf#ck OKC.
The Curse of the Sonics.

[tontoz]

Eh... I'm not sure about that anymore. I think it's safe to say regular season record means very little now besides making it into the playoffs. Thunder was also a first seed last year and they got bounced by the 5th seed Mavs in the 2nd round.

A 1 seed won the title the last two seasons. Historically a 1 seed wins the title about half the time.

[Neal Romer]

It's multiple things.

"Best player on best team" - altho but a means to simplify reasoning for those who dont wanna put much effort into analysis - is an established criterion many have used for years. It's not a quality way to make a decision, but its history does precede the Joker.

Voter fatigue and narrative would also be working against Jokic even if the records were closer. Im not saying that factor would decide it, but it would work against him.

Race is definitely *part* of it. Many in the black media sphere have proclaimed SGA the MVP since December. As if theyre trying to guard the award for him. It's fine. Im sure some white voters in the football media were leaning Josh Allen prior to really doing any heavy consideration of the facts, because they like him and wanted to see him recognized. Frankly I doubt most in the media rack their brains on these things nearly as much as we on ISH do. They just cast a casual ballot, it's people online who are the ones going thru strife over these things.


For all these reasons, SGA will be MVP. And thats perfectly fine. Nobody (sane) is arguing against Joker as the best player in the world. But that's not what many people see the MVP as measuring. Everyone has their own interpretation of what the MVP means. SGA has checked the boxes voters tend to care about, and has therefore earned the MVP should it be awarded to him.

[tpols]

If OKC was to swap SGA for Jokic the Thunder would roundhouse kick the playoffs in half. Nuggets supporting cast isn't even nearly as good.

[Neal Romer]

If OKC was to swap SGA for Jokic the Thunder would roundhouse kick the playoffs in half. Nuggets supporting cast isn't even nearly as good.

Having a dominant big is just more advantageous than a dominant wing. It's not a knock on SGA.

But Jokic has won thrice. Everyone knows hes the BITWBESIDESLEBRON. It's okay to recognize the season SGA has led the youngest playoff team in the league to.

[Walk on Water]

The problem though is you're only looking at the numbers in the context of triple doubles. In terms of being the best scorer, defender and getting most wins, Shea fits the bill. Those are the most important attributes; scoring, defense and winning. Then after that triple doubles are a nice feat but they aren't equal. His stats are not equating to the same amount of wins.

[Walk on Water]

Having a dominant big is just more advantageous than a dominant wing. It's not a knock on SGA.

But Jokic has won thrice. Everyone knows hes the BITWBESIDESLEBRON. It's okay to recognize the season SGA has led the youngest playoff team in the league to.


Well I don't think Jokic is the MVP but he's better than Lebron. Why are you putting them in the same hashtag? Lebron has nothing on Jokic. They are not close to the same level.

[Wardell Curry]

OKC being 16.5 games up on Denver is probably the more logical reason than racism.

I don't agree. I'm not joking either. Add in voter fatigue.

33/33/33. Pretty event split as to the reasons.

[Wardell Curry]

I'd still give it to Jokic. Being a Top 3 seed to win MVP is a thing of the past and the times Jokic won MVP he wasn't a Top 3 seed. He probably won't win it though. Voter fatigue is a thing. Jordan and LeBron should each have at least 8 MVPs.

You are right. Voter fatigue is definitely one of the factors, and as you mentioned Jordan and LeBron are both examples of why the award is stupid. There are many others.

[Neal Romer]

The problem though is you're only looking at the numbers in the context of triple doubles. In terms of being the best scorer, defender and getting most wins, Shea fits the bill. Those are the most important attributes; scoring, defense and winning. Then after that triple doubles are a nice feat but they aren't equal. His stats are not equating to the same amount of wins.

Well, I think assists are a part of scoring, but because they dont directly contribute to a player's point total that may be a bit abstract for you.

But in any case, yeah. The Thunder have had a monster regular season and he's been the driving force. This isnt the "best player" argument it's the season MVP argument. The precedent of voters is not to always equate those. SGA has a very strong argument for MVP this year. He'll be very deserving if he wins it.

[Wardell Curry]

SGA has a very strong argument for MVP this year. He'll be very deserving if he wins it.

Only because of team wins. That is literally the only rational(if you want to call it rational) argument. And the numbers show Jokic is more valuable to Denver than SGA is to OKC.

Who is the more valuable player regardless of roster? Again probably Jokic but that's essentially impossible to prove.

[tpols]

Having a dominant big is just more advantageous than a dominant wing. It's not a knock on SGA.

But Jokic has won thrice. Everyone knows hes the BITWBESIDESLEBRON. It's okay to recognize the season SGA has led the youngest playoff team in the league to.


That's not necessarily true. Dominant big men of the past usually needed a superstar guard counterpart to close games out. Jokic can do that himself if he wants.

SGA is just caught in the unfortunate position of playing in an era with Jokic. He wouldn't have fared any better in past eras though either.

He's penny hard away with a better flop game. That's nice, but not MVP nice. League will promote tings as it will though.

[Neal Romer]

Only because of team wins. That is literally the only rational(if you want to call it rational) argument. And the numbers show Jokic is more valuable to Denver than SGA is to OKC.

Who is the more valuable player regardless of roster? Again probably Jokic but that's essentially impossible to prove.


Well again I said based on voter precedent. SGA will also win the scoring title. Thats something voters will consider. He's been available for a handful more games than Jokic too.

It's a very close race. Based on the established things voters have a precedent of making their determinations by... SGA would be a deserving MVP. He has legitimate arguments even if he would not be your personal selection.


Now would you mind buying some razors please?

[Wardell Curry]

Voter precedent is irrelevant to who deserves an award and it's not an argument.

If we always did things off of precedent, white and black people would still be drinking from different water fountains. An extreme example, I know, but the point is there.

[90sgoat]

It's a classic top floor raiser or top ceiling raiser.

There's no doubt Jokic does a lot more for the Nuggets, but you can't argue with the best records in the league for Shai.

I would say Shai deserves it because OKC are just so much better performing. Don't want to give it to Shai but Jokic hasn't turned his stats into peak performance as a team.

[John8204]

If Jokic had 2 rings or even made the NBA finals twice then yeah I can see the point. But giving Jokic a 4th ring when he's not even making the conference finals is the big issue with him. Jimmy Butler who may very well elevate the Warriors to the finals and beat both The Nuggets and the Thunder is not an MVP candidate. Lebron, Jordan, Wilt, and Bird all got capped from getting MVP's even when they were the best players in the league. Media Awards are narrative driven and also BS. Jerry West walked into the league and made the Lakers have a title every season was the best guard in the game and he never won an MVP.

Shai has taken his team to the 1 seed yet again in back to back seasons he's getting his award.

[John8204]

double posted for some reason

[ImKobe]

SGA has only missed 3 games to Jokic's 12. While Jokic has the edge in most advanced stats (SGA has him beat in EPM) he hasn't been available as much and his team might not even have HCA in the 1st round of the Playoffs as they enter a tough final stretch of the season vs. other good WC teams.

SGA is playing on the best team in the league and is by far their best player and his numbers are on par with the greatest to ever play the position. OKC will probably end up winning 67-68 games with Chet missing most of the season and with Hartenstein missing 20+ and with Jalen Williams also missing a dozen games. There really shouldn't be a debate as to who's the MVP of the league this season and we saw this reflected in the ESPN MVP straw poll that had SGA ahead by a significant margin, and Jokic has missed a bunch of games and his team hasn't performed as well since.

The one argument u can make for Jokic besides him being better is that Denver has been terrible (4-8) without him this season, but that also speaks to his lack of availability that has his team currently 4th in the WC and in danger of losing home court. It's not SGA's fault that his team is better and that he gets to play less minutes per game.

And besides I could argue that SGA would have better numbers if he played on a worse defensive team where he was asked to do more in crunch time instead of resting. I could argue that Jokic's numbers would be worse if he had more help like in previous seasons where he was able to play less minutes and where he didn't have to play in as many close games. Part of Denver doing worse is also that their defense is just horrible and Jokic himself is part of the reason why. Denver's defense is actually better in the non-Jokic minutes but their bench just isn't good enough offensively or guys have been in & out of lineups and I've never been a fan of coach Malone's rotations.

Either way SGA is gonna win and it's deserved. Best 2-way player in the league and insane that OKC won this many games given all the injuries, especially to their front court.

[L.Kizzle]

Westbrook won the MVP the (first) time he avg a triple double. It was the first it had been done in over 50 years. Some said he only got it because he avg a triple as I think the Thunder were like a 6th seed or something.

The three other times he did (yes,, he's done it they many times) it was an afterthought. Hell, one of the seasons he didn't even make the All-Star game.

What makes Jokic season different.

[hold this L]

Because Jokic's triple double season average is crazy... to average 30 on 58% shooting and 41% at the three, 13 reb and 10 assists...

Shai is putting up 33 5 and 6... good in its own right but a big putting up a triple double with that efficiency is just crazy.

The only way to explain why SGA is being pushed is because they dont want to start putting Joker at 30 years old up there with the other guys like lebron and wilt or racism in the NBA.
Really, that's the only way? Not OKC being f*cking 16 wins ahead of Denver? Or them possibly grabbing 70 wins which makes it a legendary season? Or them being on route to have the GOAT net rating season of all time, as they've won half of the games of the seasons in double digits? And Shai being an elite 2 way player while Jokic is a revolving door as a center vs any half decent team? Or Shai also dominating in almost every advanced metric this season?

[Wally450]

Westbrook won the MVP the (first) time he avg a triple double. It was the first it had been done in over 50 years. Some said he only got it because he avg a triple as I think the Thunder were like a 6th seed or something.

The three other times he did (yes,, he's done it they many times) it was an afterthought. Hell, one of the seasons he didn't even make the All-Star game.

What makes Jokic season different.

Westbrook didn't even deserve it over Harden in 2017 imo.

[SouBeachTalents]

Westbrook won the MVP the (first) time he avg a triple double. It was the first it had been done in over 50 years. Some said he only got it because he avg a triple as I think the Thunder were like a 6th seed or something.

The three other times he did (yes,, he's done it they many times) it was an afterthought. Hell, one of the seasons he didn't even make the All-Star game.

What makes Jokic season different.
Yeah, besides the disparity in efficiency, advanced metrics, team record, what makes this Jokic season different.

[Nowoco]

If Jokic didnt have three MVPs already, he would be near unanimous. A mixture of voter fatigue and Shai not having one will likely give it to Shai.

Quite frankly it's a disgrace how MVP voting is based on any other factor but a player's performance but this is the NBA. Narratives, fatigue and other bullshit exist.

Jokic's stats are beyond comprehension.

[999Guy]

This is as close as it gets for MVPs. The wrong choice can't be made.

I feel Jokic is better than everybody. However, SGA has made it close and he's damn near playing better considering his defense.

I think his situation is too cushy compared to Nikola, to really take it at face value though.

[L.Kizzle]

Yeah, besides the disparity in efficiency, advanced metrics, team record, what makes this Jokic season different.

All that equaled to about the same wins. So, what did that have to do with anything.

[StrongLurk]

Shai 100% deserves MVP. He is the second best player in the league and his record is way better than Jokic's.

I don't understand what the big fuss is here. MJ and Lebron didn't win MVP every year.

Team record has ALWAYS played a huge role in MVP.

[hold this L]

If Jokic didnt have three MVPs already, he would be near unanimous. A mixture of voter fatigue and Shai not having one will likely give it to Shai.

Quite frankly it's a disgrace how MVP voting is based on any other factor but a player's performance but this is the NBA. Narratives, fatigue and other bullshit exist.

Jokic's stats are beyond comprehension.

You guys are retarded. OKC is on its way to get 70 wins, and idiots like you think it would be near unanimous decision. :facepalm

[ILLsmak]

You guys are retarded. OKC is on its way to get 70 wins, and idiots like you think it would be near unanimous decision. :facepalm

agree. I like Jokic a lot, but the fact he's won so much, the fact his team is MEH and the fact that SGA is the all-nba 1 guy on a near 70 win team has to solidify it.

-Smak

[Axe]

You guys are retarded. OKC is on its way to get 70 wins, and idiots like you think it would be near unanimous decision. :facepalm
Lol wut

[John8204]

Shai 100% deserves MVP. He is the second best player in the league and his record is way better than Jokic's.

I don't understand what the big fuss is here. MJ and Lebron didn't win MVP every year.

Team record has ALWAYS played a huge role in MVP.

OKC also repeating the #1 seed and getting better.

I get that people love Jokic but he's got a real chance of getting knocked out in the first round, he really shouldn't get a fourth MVP until he gets a second ring

[Phoenix]

OKC also repeating the #1 seed and getting better.

I get that people love Jokic but he's got a real chance of getting knocked out in the first round, he really shouldn't get a fourth MVP until he gets a second ring

Fluffer logic. Regular season MVP awards have nothing to do with rings, or else nobody would or should win a single MVP until they've won a title.