Jokic has least amount of help of ALL-TIME

[StrongLurk]

Reminder: Jokic plays for a small market team. He has had 0 teammates make an all-star, All-NBA or All-Defense teams in his 10 year career - the longest streak of ALL-TIME for any MVP winner.

As I said in my other thread, Jokic based on impact stats for someone's 5-year peak is a top 4 player of all time. You can't measure his greatness just by "RaNgZ" because Jokic barely has any help. No only that, but Murray and MPJ didn't even play in the 2021 and 2022 playoffs. So Jokic's first TWO YEARS of his GOAT peak didn't even have his best teammates :lol

Yes Jamal Murray did have really good runs in 2020 and 2023, but that's literally it. Imagine Jordan trying to win rings with Pippen and Horace Grant not even playing in the playoffs in 91 and 92. Imagine Lebron trying to win in 2012 and 2013 without Bosh and Wade. It simply wouldn't happen.

[Mask the Embiid]

murray
2019 21.3 4.4 4.7
2020 26.5 4.8 6.6
2021-
2022-
2023 26.1 5.7 7.1 (50/40/90)
2024 20.6 4.3 5.8

pippen
88 10/5/2
89 13/6/5
90 19/6/7
91 21/8/5
92 19/7/5
93 20 /7/5
94 no mj
95 17/7/6
96 16/8/5
97 19/6/3
98 16/6/5



you are pathetic...

[ArbitraryWater]

murray
2019 21.3 4.4 4.7
2020 26.5 4.8 6.6
2021-
2022-
2023 26.1 5.7 7.1 (50/40/90)
2024 20.6 4.3 5.8

pippen
88 10/5/2
89 13/6/5
90 19/6/7
91 21/8/5
92 19/7/5
93 20 /7/5
94 no mj
95 17/7/6
96 16/8/5
97 19/6/3
98 16/6/5



you are pathetic...


Jokic has least amount of help relatively speaking.

Its like per capita, I know its difficult for you to understand.

[RRR3]

Reminder: Jokic plays for a small market team. He has had 0 teammates make an all-star, All-NBA or All-Defense teams in his 10 year career - the longest streak of ALL-TIME for any MVP winner.

As I said in my other thread, Jokic based on impact stats for someone's 5-year peak is a top 4 player of all time. You can't measure his greatness just by "RaNgZ" because Jokic barely has any help. No only that, but Murray and MPJ didn't even play in the 2021 and 2022 playoffs. So Jokic's first TWO YEARS of his GOAT peak didn't even have his best teammates :lol

Yes Jamal Murray did have really good runs in 2020 and 2023, but that's literally it. Imagine Jordan trying to win rings with Pippen and Horace Grant not even playing in the playoffs in 91 and 92. Imagine Lebron trying to win in 2012 and 2013 without Bosh and Wade. It simply wouldn't happen.
Wade in the 2013 playoffs: 15.9 PPG on 49.8 TS%
Bosh in the 2013 playoffs: 12.4 PPG on 52.4 TS%


Imagine Jokic winning a ring with that kind of help :yaohappy:


But LeBron did :bowdown:

[ArbitraryWater]

Wade in the 2013 playoffs: 15.9 PPG on 49.8 TS%
Bosh in the 2013 playoffs: 12.4 PPG on 52.4 TS%


Imagine Jokic winning a ring with that kind of help :yaohappy:


But LeBron did :bowdown:


What did the Pacers and Spurs 2nd-3rd options do?

[hold this L]

When Jokic was off the floor in the 2023 playoffs, his only finals/championship season, his team had a higher rating than every single post season in Lebron's and Steph's career. Yes, even even higher than when Steph was sitting in 2017 when he had KD and they went 16-1.

[RRR3]

When Jokic was off the floor in the 2023 playoffs, his only finals/championship season, his team had a higher rating than every single post season in Lebron's and Steph's career. Yes, even even higher than when Steph was sitting in 2017 when he had KD and they went 16-1.
No help doe. 4th best ever doe.

[Kblaze8855]

10 years of people not making the All-Star game isn’t the same thing as 10 years of not having All-Star caliber teammates. It’s a distinction worth pointing out when is being used to justify a claim of no help. On the All-Star team or not Jamal Murray is a traditional All-Star caliber guard. You could make a long ass list of all stars who are not better than Jamal Murray, even without factoring in that he was on some “Of all time” shit for a couple playoff runs.

Theres little reason to call Calvin Murphy, BJ Armstrong, Michael Finley, Jeff Teague, Dana Barros, Michael Adams, Chris Gatling or like 20 other people all star help and not Murray if the issue is how much they contributed on the court.

That’s like when people say LeBron won a title with no all stars in 2016. It’s true…but it isn’t.

Jamal Murray is a pretty standard other guy. Not sneaking into an all star game like Mookie Blaylock, Tyler Herro, Hersey Hawkins, Kyle Korver, Dejounte Murray, Deangelo Russell or Chris Kaman doesn’t really make him of less value to a franchise trying to win a title.

So why harp on it?

Is he better help if he gets that random “Here damn….” 3 injured guys all star appearance?

[Axe]

Lol in 2023, he needed them most during their finals debut. Otherwise, it would have been like '21 and '22 again.

[RRR3]

Yikes OP getting embarrassed :yaohappy:

[1987_Lakers]

He had a good cast in 2023 when they won the chip, but this season in particular it is a pretty subpar cast, but wouldn't call it the worst cast ever for a superstar.

Just look at Kobe's cast in '06 & '07. LeBron's cast from 2006-2010, or even Kareem with the Lakers in the 70's, those were some 20 win teams without their superstars. With that said, 2025 Nuggets are still a lottery team without Jokic.

[SouBeachTalents]

The answer to this will always be Tracy McGrady. He played with legitimately the worst supporting cast I've ever seen for a superstar in Orlando, then when he goes to Houston Yao proceeds to miss 1/3rd of their games together over their last 3 seasons.

I would take the supporting cast Jokic's had the last 7 years over T-Mac's in an instant.

[fsvr54]

10 years of people not making the All-Star game isn’t the same thing as 10 years of not having All-Star caliber teammates. It’s a distinction worth pointing out when is being used to justify a claim of no help. On the All-Star team or not Jamal Murray is a traditional All-Star caliber guard. You could make a long ass list of all stars who are not better than Jamal Murray, even without factoring in that he was on some “Of all time” shit for a couple playoff runs.

Theres little reason to call Calvin Murphy, BJ Armstrong, Michael Finley, Jeff Teague, Dana Barros, Michael Adams, Chris Gatling or like 20 other people all star help and not Murray if the issue is how much they contributed on the court.

That’s like when people say LeBron won a title with no all stars in 2016. It’s true…but it isn’t.

Jamal Murray is a pretty standard other guy. Not sneaking into an all star game like Mookie Blaylock, Tyler Herro, Hersey Hawkins, Kyle Korver, Dejounte Murray, Deangelo Russell or Chris Kaman doesn’t really make him of less value to a franchise trying to win a title.

So why harp on it?

Is he better help if he gets that random “Here damn….” 3 injured guys all star appearance?

You're wrong though. Being all-star calibre means making the team. If you didn't make it, you aren't an all-star. Don't move goal-posts

[RRR3]

The answer to this will always be Tracy McGrady. He played with legitimately the worst supporting cast I've ever seen for a superstar in Orlando, then when he goes to Houston Yao proceeds to miss 1/3rd of their games together over their last 3 seasons.

I would take the supporting cast Jokic's had the last 7 years over T-Mac's in an instant.
The best players he played with in Orlando were Bo Outlaw, old Darrell Armstrong and Mike Miller :oldlol: Grant Hill doesn't count cuz he was never healthy.

Jesus those teams were so ****ing bad.

KG in Minnesota was worse than Jokic, that team was starting horrible players like Michael Olowokandi.

[Kblaze8855]

You're wrong though. Being all-star calibre means making the team. If you didn't make it, you aren't an all-star. Don't move goal-posts

once you acknowledge the term all star caliber…..this kind of just becomes a lie. Korver was not better at basketball than Kevin love or Kwahi Leonard(his first DPOY season after being finals mvp) when he was an all star and they weren’t. Missing November kept 2016 Kyrie from making the All-Star team. It does not Mean he wasn’t all-star caliber.



https://www.hostpic.org/images/2504151041260308.jpeg



Dame wasnt only all star caliber those first two years and no longer on that level the next two. He was ****ing all NBA second team.


whatever words we have to throw around to assign value to certain players in the end, acting like it actually defines what caliber of player we’re talking about is just being dishonest.

Talking about moving goal posts…

The point of saying someone has an All-Star caliber teammate is the caliber part….how good they are at basketball. I don’t need to actually check which years such and such made the team to know if a player is generally All-Star caliber.

quite a few more people are all star caliber, than make the All-Star team. And if it isn’t about level of play, why bring it up at all?

[StrongLurk]

I love how everyone is melting down over actual facts.

Why is it so hard to just acknowledge that Jokic has not had the caliber teammates that other GOATS have had like MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, etc. It's a factual claim.

[StrongLurk]

Wade in the 2013 playoffs: 15.9 PPG on 49.8 TS%
Bosh in the 2013 playoffs: 12.4 PPG on 52.4 TS%


Imagine Jokic winning a ring with that kind of help :yaohappy:


But LeBron did :bowdown:

I said WITHOUT Wade and Bosh, aka them not playing in the playoffs at all due to injury. RRR3 you have horrible reading ability.

[StrongLurk]

When Jokic was off the floor in the 2023 playoffs, his only finals/championship season, his team had a higher rating than every single post season in Lebron's and Steph's career. Yes, even even higher than when Steph was sitting in 2017 when he had KD and they went 16-1.

No one cares about a very small sample size like that.

[tpols]

I said WITHOUT Wade and Bosh, aka them not playing in the playoffs at all due to injury. RRR3 you have horrible reading ability.


His reading comprehension is fine, just has the emotional maturity of an angsty goth teenager.

What a lot of people don't realize or refuse to admit to themselves for whatever bias reasons is when Wade and Lebron teamed up they were both MVP top 3 players. That would be like if Jokic went over to play with Giannis. And then throw in an additional All NBA / All Star player on top of that like Jaylen Brown or something. Can you imagine how easy that would be? That would be a cake walk.

Jamal Murray is nice but talent wise hes just a bench All Star guard type. He's like Tyrese Maxey level talent. Which is nice. But it's not superstar nice. If we're being honest Jokic accentuates him tremendously. They work the PnR together with the chemistry of Stockton and Malone except jokic is the one diming as the big man.

[SouBeachTalents]

His reading comprehension is fine, just has the emotional maturity of an angsty goth teenager.

What a lot of people don't realize or refuse to admit to themselves for whatever bias reasons is when Wade and Lebron teamed up they were both MVP top 3 players. That would be like if Jokic went over to play with Giannis. And then throw in an additional All NBA / All Star player on top of that like Jaylen Brown or something. Can you imagine how easy that would be? That would be a cake walk.

Jamal Murray is nice but talent wise hes just a bench All Star guard type. He's like Tyrese Maxey level talent. Which is nice. But it's not superstar nice. If we're being honest Jokic accentuates him tremendously. They work the PnR together with the chemistry of Stockton and Malone except jokic is the one diming as the big man.
And you've refused to admit for over 10 years that Wade was no longer that caliber of player by as early as 2012, and by 2013 was frankly a shell of himself. Just because he was top 3 when LeBron joined Miami doesn't mean he played that way most of the time they were together.

The guaranteed rebuttals tpols will make

1. It was only because they were a bad fit, that's why Wade dropped to a 16 ppg scorer

2. He'll bring up Wade's "monster" playoff run in 2016

3. He'll post a Youtube clip of the one 40 point game Wade had those last 3 playoff runs together and act like this was the norm for him

4. And he'll eventually end up asking "Are you really trying to claim Murray is better than Dwyane Wade?"

[tpols]

That actually .makes it even worse. So in the 1 year Wade was still MVP caliber (and balled out in the playoffs) they ****ing lost. :lol

Yolk would never with that help.

And especially with a weak ass path toughest team being Rose Bulls or Dirk Mavs. They would get curb stomped by Jokic Giannis Brown or Jokic Wade Bosh. And you know it too.

[Im Still Ballin]

The Yolkster.

[SouBeachTalents]

That actually .makes it even worse. So in the 1 year Wade was still MVP caliber (and balled out in the playoffs) they ****ing lost. :lol

Yolk would never with that help.

And especially with a weak ass path toughest team being Rose Bulls or Dirk Mavs. They would get curb stomped by Jokic Giannis Brown or Jokic Wade Bosh. And you know it too.
Yeah, LeBron fvcked up royally in 2011, this ain't exactly breaking news. And 2011 was honestly by far the toughest competition LeBron ever faced out East during his Finals runs. The 2011 Celtics & Bulls are legit competition, or at least far more difficult than the teams he was facing afterwards.

[jayfan]

No argument here.

.

[hold this L]

No one cares about a very small sample size like that.

Yeah, nobody cares about the only time Nuggets were a serious chip contender and he had legendary level help :lol

[StrongLurk]

Yeah, nobody cares about the only time Nuggets were a serious chip contender and he had legendary level help :lol

Agreed because the specific "help" you are talking about is a small sample size. You want to know what's NOT a small sample size? TEN YEARS with no all-star, all-nba, or all-defense selections.

[RRR3]

I said WITHOUT Wade and Bosh, aka them not playing in the playoffs at all due to injury. RRR3 you have horrible reading ability.
That’s literally worse help than Jokic has ever got and you’re saying it doesn’t count because they have big names. Wade was hurt in the 13 playoffs too acting like that is star Wade is ridiculous.

[StrongLurk]

That’s literally worse help than Jokic has ever got and you’re saying it doesn’t count because they have big names. Wade was hurt in the 13 playoffs too acting like that is star Wade is ridiculous.

That post I made was referencing Jokic's 2022 run, when Murray AND MPJ didn't even play due to injury. So you firing back with 13 Wade and 13 Bosh, who ACTUALLY played, is ridiculous.

[RRR3]

That post I made was referencing Jokic's 2022 run, when Murray AND MPJ didn't even play due to injury. So you firing back with 13 Wade and 13 Bosh, who ACTUALLY played, is ridiculous.
Why are you bringing up a year he didn’t even win shit in? What’s that supposed to prove. LeBron played 7 years with similar supporting casts at the beginning of his career if we’re doing years in which you didn’t win :lol

Mo Williams was the best teammate he ever had until he went to Miami :roll: Or was it Big Z? :yaohappy:

[StrongLurk]

Why are you bringing up a year he didn’t even win shit in? What’s that supposed to prove. LeBron played 7 years with similar supporting casts at the beginning of his career if we’re doing years in which you didn’t win :lol

Mo Williams was the best teammate he ever had until he went to Miami :roll: Or was it Big Z? :yaohappy:

It proves the whole point of this thread. Are you actually retarded?

[ImKobe]

Murray's had injuries so in terms of injury luck yes Jokic has had it pretty rough thus far, BUT his teammate averaged 27/5/7 on 50/45/90 splits for a WCF run (with MULTIPLE 50-point games with one of them coming in elimination and a 40-point performance in a Game 7 against the Clippers) and 26/6/7/2 on 47/40/93 splits for a title run man.

In terms of benches he might have it worst out of all the greats up to this point, but he has a teammate who can put up superstar numbers in the Playoffs and kill teams in 4th quarters + solid role players in the starting 5. Lebron had worse teams in his 1st stint in Cleveland and Kobe had worse teammates at his absolute peak. Jokic is only 30 right now so we'll see how the rest of his career plays out but I'd say he's had about as much help as guys like Dirk and Hakeem did tbh.

Denver invested everything in their starting 5 so their bench is weak and Murray is obviously an All-NBA level performer in the Playoffs.

[StrongLurk]

Murray's had injuries so in terms of injury luck yes Jokic has had it pretty rough thus far, BUT his teammate averaged 27/5/7 on 50/45/90 splits for a WCF run (with MULTIPLE 50-point games with one of them coming in elimination and a 40-point performance in a Game 7 against the Clippers) and 26/6/7/2 on 47/40/93 splits for a title run man.

In terms of benches he might have it worst out of all the greats up to this point, but he has a teammate who can put up superstar numbers in the Playoffs and kill teams in 4th quarters + solid role players in the starting 5. Lebron had worse teams in his 1st stint in Cleveland and Kobe had worse teammates at his absolute peak. Jokic is only 30 right now so we'll see how the rest of his career plays out but I'd say he's had about as much help as guys like Dirk and Hakeem did tbh.

Denver invested everything in their starting 5 so their bench is weak and Murray is obviously an All-NBA level performer in the Playoffs.

Jokic has had 0 teammates make an all-star, All-NBA or All-Defense teams in his 10 year career - the longest streak of ALL-TIME for any MVP winner.

So Jokic's cast relative to his own era is very weak for his career. Especially compared to the career casts (relative to their eras) of other GOATs like MJ, Lebron, Kobe, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Duncan.

[MrFonzworth]

Its Tracy McGrady and it isn't close.


https://youtu.be/l2Znpf7nl_0?si=epUSHKPx4roQRLF3

[Meticode]

I don't know about year after year, but that 2007 Cavs team with LeBron has to be one of the weakest teams of all-time to make it. LeBron literally carried the Cavs on his back through the East. The team's second leady scorer for the regular season was Larry Hughes who averaged 14.9 PPG...the only all-star on the team was Big Z and he was over two years removed from that and on the decline.

C: Zydrunas Ilgauskas
PF: Drew Gooden
SF: LeBron James
SG: Sasha Pavlovic
PG: Eric Snow

[k0kakw0rld]

Reminder: Jokic plays for a small market team. He has had 0 teammates make an all-star, All-NBA or All-Defense teams in his 10 year career - the longest streak of ALL-TIME for any MVP winner.

As I said in my other thread, Jokic based on impact stats for someone's 5-year peak is a top 4 player of all time. You can't measure his greatness just by "RaNgZ" because Jokic barely has any help. No only that, but Murray and MPJ didn't even play in the 2021 and 2022 playoffs. So Jokic's first TWO YEARS of his GOAT peak didn't even have his best teammates :lol

Yes Jamal Murray did have really good runs in 2020 and 2023, but that's literally it. Imagine Jordan trying to win rings with Pippen and Horace Grant not even playing in the playoffs in 91 and 92. Imagine Lebron trying to win in 2012 and 2013 without Bosh and Wade. It simply wouldn't happen.
A d Shai does?

[ArbitraryWater]

Its Tracy McGrady and it isn't close.


https://youtu.be/l2Znpf7nl_0?si=epUSHKPx4roQRLF3

Crazy that the Mavs pulled out games 3 and 4 on the road like that.. down handily in the 4th and you didnt make up those deficits as quickly as today.

Games 2-5 were so close and then it just culminated in a 40 point blowout game 7.

[StrongLurk]

A d Shai does?

Uh yeah, he does.

[StrongLurk]

Its Tracy McGrady and it isn't close.


https://youtu.be/l2Znpf7nl_0?si=epUSHKPx4roQRLF3

T-mac did play on a lot of bad teams. I won't argue that his help wasn't bad most of his prime.

With that said, he did play with Vince Carter and Yao Ming, two guys better than anything Jokic played with relative to their eras. T-mac also had a few all-nba DEFENSE teammates too, which Jokic hasn't had.

[StrongLurk]

If people really want to play semantics and meet me halfway here, we can adjust our verbiage and say Jokic has had the "least decorated" supporting cast out of any MVP winners so far.

[RRR3]

If people really want to play semantics and meet me halfway here, we can adjust our verbiage and say Jokic has had the "least decorated" supporting cast out of any MVP winners so far.
If your dumbass just wants to name names without considering how the guy played than Jokic has played with Paul Millsap, Russell Westbrook and Deandre Jordan. Now you realize how dumb it is to say “LeBron had Wade and Bosh in 2013 playoffs! :cry:” hopefully.

[ArbitraryWater]

If your dumbass just wants to name names without considering how the guy played than Jokic has played with Paul Millsap, Russell Westbrook and Deandre Jordan. Now you realize how dumb it is to say “LeBron had Wade and Bosh in 2013 playoffs! :cry:” hopefully.

decorated at the time you moron

[plowking]

Yikes OP getting embarrassed :yaohappy:

It must be embarrassing to let your political opinions seep into basketball discussion.

Like how mentally fragile does one have to be to not be able to enjoy their sport in a vacuum and a players political affiliation not lining up with your own completely ruining them for you?

Yikes.

[RRR3]

It must be embarrassing to let your political opinions seep into basketball discussion.

Like how mentally fragile does one have to be to not be able to enjoy their sport in a vacuum and a players political affiliation not lining up with your own completely ruining them for you?

Yikes.
Typing through the tears.

Funny you attack me instead of the troll OP. Relax, none of my favorite players share my political views. OP is just continually making awful troll threads about Jokic being the GOAT.

[ImKobe]

Jokic has had 0 teammates make an all-star, All-NBA or All-Defense teams in his 10 year career - the longest streak of ALL-TIME for any MVP winner.

So Jokic's cast relative to his own era is very weak for his career. Especially compared to the career casts (relative to their eras) of other GOATs like MJ, Lebron, Kobe, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Duncan.

I already told you what Murray did for Denver in the Playoffs. Murray's had the misfortune of being injured early in the season so while he played well enough to be an All-Star he just didn't make the cut due to games missed or he was coming back from injury so his numbers suffered in that stretch. Jokic has had adequate help it's just bad injury luck when it comes to the POs in his prime years.

[Bankaii]

I hate when people think having a decorated name makes you a better player. It’s so embarrassing.
Murray out scored Jokic in half their series in the championship run.
He’s played like a superstar for at least 2 playoff runs off the top of my head. And he was damn sure better than 2013-14 Wade and Bosh.

[StrongLurk]

Once again, Jokic's core teammates could NOT stay healthy come playoff time. MPJ grade 2 shoulder sprain played horrible all playoffs, and Gordon of course got hurt right as game 7 started.

That''s FOUR out of the last FIVE years where Jokic's key teammates are hurt. It's actually insane.

[StrongLurk]

Once again, Jokic's core teammates could NOT stay healthy come playoff time. MPJ grade 2 shoulder sprain played horrible all playoffs, and Gordon of course got hurt right as game 7 started.

That''s FOUR out of the last FIVE years where Jokic's key teammates are hurt. It's actually insane.

[GOBB]

This guy says I suck at posting yet

Jokic 4th best player all time (mt rushmore)
Jokic > Hakeem
Jokic has the least amount of help all time


My god you’re like Cassie to Diddy, total sex slave to the Slovenian nightmare

[Keno]

Is it crazy to say Denver goes as far as Murray takes them? In 2023, the one year he stayed healthy, the Nuggets cruised to a championship. Murray’s lack of All-Star nods stems from injuries and the stacked Western Conference guard pool, not poor play.

Similarly, LeBron’s 2016 ring—arguably the toughest in NBA history—came alongside Kyrie Irving, who wasn’t an All-Star that year despite stellar play. It’s a comparable case of talent being overlooked due to external factors.

[90sgoat]

Once again, Jokic's core teammates could NOT stay healthy come playoff time. MPJ grade 2 shoulder sprain played horrible all playoffs, and Gordon of course got hurt right as game 7 started.

That''s FOUR out of the last FIVE years where Jokic's key teammates are hurt. It's actually insane.

Yes.

People blame Jokic or whatever, but if MPJ had stayed healthy and Gordon hadn't been injured in game 7, very possible it ends with Denver in 6.

[tpols]

https://i.postimg.cc/3J9BPcwk/Screenshot-20250520-071339-Reddit.jpg

[StrongLurk]

This guy says I suck at posting yet

Jokic 4th best player all time (mt rushmore)
Jokic > Hakeem
Jokic has the least amount of help all time


My god you’re like Cassie to Diddy, total sex slave to the Slovenian nightmare

Jokic never had an all-star, all-defense, or all-nba teammate.

His core teammates were injured every year over the last 5 years except 2023.

These are facts buddy.

[3ba11]

Jokic never had an all-star, all-defense, or all-nba teammate.

His core teammates were injured every year over the last 5 years except 2023.

These are facts buddy.


Media awards mean nothing - horrible argument

Jokic had a 24.7 PER in these playoffs - that's why he lost...

Otherwise, he has far more scoring help than tons of guys that won, such as Jordan, Kobe, Curry, etc - Jokic lost because he isn't as good as those guys

[rmt]

You're wrong though. Being all-star calibre means making the team. If you didn't make it, you aren't an all-star. Don't move goal-posts

Despite the East being weaker than the West for so long - when west players who didn't make the All-star team were better than east players who did? How about when it was positional with C, F and Gs? Or when Yao Ming was All-star starter over Shaq? Gosh - some are just stuck on "facts". Especially considering how all-stars were chosen.

[tontoz]

Despite the East being weaker than the West for so long - when west players who didn't make the All-star team were better than east players who did? How about when it was positional with C, F and Gs? Or when Yao Ming was All-star starter over Shaq? Gosh - some are just stuck on "facts". Especially considering how all-stars were chosen.

What year would MPJ or Murray make it in the East? Gordon played most of his career in the east and never made it.

East/West doesn't matter when picking All/NBA teams.

[rmt]

What year would MPJ or Murray make it in the East? Gordon played most of his career in the east and never made it.

East/West doesn't matter when picking All/NBA teams.

Where in my post do I mention MPJ or Murray? Or All-NBA? Another recency bias.

[tontoz]

Where in my post do I mention MPJ or Murray? Or All-NBA? Another recency bias.

Did you post in the wrong thread? This thread is about Jokic and his teammates. How was your post relevant to the thread if he wasn't about Jokic or his teammates?