Which team wins, all offense or all defense?

[Neal Romer]

Lets take players with reputations for being one dimensional.

Davion Mitchell
Kris Dunn
Dyson Daniels
Jared Vanderbilt
Rudy Toody

How does that team do? Are they making the playoffs?


Lets think about an offensive team now. Guys who are considered defensive liabilities or who have been dismissed as weak defenders.

Luka
Steph
Lavine
Sabonis
Joker

Is that team any good? Do you think they make the playoffs?


I see some people act sometimes like offense and defense are equal factors in estimating a player's impact. It's usually when someone has a shameless agenda to push that it becomes a thing.

So I assume these teams would achieve similar outcomes, yeah? Theres two sides of the ball. Each team plays only one side. They must have roughly equal ceilings, no?

How do you think they would match up in a best of seven series? Pretty even?

Does this theoretical demonstrate defense as being just as important to a player's value as offense?

[Carbine]

Lets take players with reputations for being one dimensional.

Davion Mitchell
Kris Dunn
Dyson Daniels
Jared Vanderbilt
Rudy Toody

How does that team do? Are they making the playoffs?


Lets think about an offensive team now. Guys who are considered defensive liabilities or who have been dismissed as weak defenders.

Luka
Steph
Lavine
Sabonis
Joker

Is that team any good? Do you think they make the playoffs?


I see some people act sometimes like offense and defense are equal factors in estimating a player's impact. It's usually when someone has a shameless agenda to push that it becomes a thing.

So I assume these teams would achieve similar outcomes, yeah? Theres two sides of the ball. Each team plays only one side. They must have roughly equal ceilings, no?

How do you think they would match up in a best of seven series? Pretty even?

Does this theoretical demonstrate defense as being just as important to a player's value as offense?

It all matters but not to a 1:1 ratio, I thought this was universally known.

You would be better off using one dimensional defenders vs one dimensional scorers.

Steph wouldnt fit this as he is one of the most devastating passing/scoring players ever. Same with Luka.

Guys like Jamal Crawford, Clarkson, Lou Williams, etc would be better for this exercise.

[ralph_i_el]

Offensive talent is less likely to compound than defensive talent imo.

Think about it like this, if I have 5 elite offensive players, I still only have 1 ball. I can only score 1 time each possession. At a certain point, we see diminishing returns.

On the flip side, If I have 5 elite defensive players, you have nowhere to attack. Playing 4 elite defenders and 1 liability gives the other team a good point to attack, reducing the impact of the 4 other defenders. Having 1 elite defender and 4 liabilities means teams can mostly just avoid the elite defender (Rudy Gobert-type paint protectors being the exception).


I know this isn't answering the question, but I'd much rather have a team starting 5 elite defenders, even if only one is strong on offense, over a team with 5 elite offensive players, but only 1 who plays defense. What would it look like if the 2001 76ers played the '20-21 Jazz?

[tpols]

It's much easier to take over as a single person on offense than on defense. Because you have the ball in your hands ready to create anything. Defense can only react. And of course if you're a super elite defender they'll run every action away from you possible.

I will say this though... if defenders were allowed to hold and grab to the max and there were no fouls except true flagrant fouls... it would even out.

The league is geared towards offense AKA WWE.

[Akeem34TheDream]

I was just thinking about this today. I divide basketball skills into 3 categories: scoring, playmaking and defending. All 3 are important but scoring and playmaking skills make each other more unstoppable while defense is from separate 2 other skills. Defense doesn't add up to those 2. It's nice to be able to defend but it's the least important attribute among the 3 in today's NBA. And its easier to hide someone on defense. Defense is more of a teamwork than offense which can be spearheaded by stars. I know its too much simplifying and it doesn't factor communication, chemistry, anticipation etc. but still.

[SouBeachTalents]

That example is stupid because you're including 3 ATG talents on one team and a bunch of role players on the other. Yeah, no shit that team is going to win :lol

If you have it more evenly matched, it would make for a more valid discussion.

[Neal Romer]

That example is stupid because you're including 3 ATG talents on one team and a bunch of role players on the other. Yeah, no shit that team is going to win :lol

If you have it more evenly matched, it would make for a more valid discussion.


Okay, so pick some all time defense-only greats.

Put a team with Rodman and Ben Wallace and Bruce Bowen together and tell me how you think they do.

[SouBeachTalents]

If I were to make a team of legitimate superstar players, I'd prob go something like

Curry
Harden
Luka
Dirk
Jokic

Payton
2016 Kawhi
Pippen
KG
Russell

I tried to use guys who even if they were still good offensively, were unquestionably more valued for their defense. Team offense would likely still be considered the favorite by most, but you need to at least have the talent level be somewhat equal, choosing an All-NBA Team to play a bunch of role players isn't proving anything.

[FKAri]

If I were to make a team of legitimate superstar players, I'd prob go something like

Curry
Harden
Luka
Dirk
Jokic

Payton
2016 Kawhi
Pippen
KG
Russell

I tried to use guys who even if they were still good offensively, were unquestionably more valued for their defense. Team offense would likely still be considered the favorite by most, but you need to at least have the talent level be somewhat equal, choosing an All-NBA Team to play a bunch of role players isn't proving anything.

By picking 2 way players for your defensive team you already answered OP's question lol.

You need to pick guys like :
Avery Bradley
Dikembe
Tony Allen
Ben Wallace

All time great defenders with terrible O vs all time great offensive players with terrible D.

[Meticode]

More times than not the offensive team is going to win the game. You have to have players who can score. Look at the Houston/Golden State game. Houston is by far younger, more atheletic, Top 5 defensively in the league, yet when it came time to score the ball Butler and Curry did that way better than anyone on Houston.

I'm not saying defense isn't important, but half of defense is effort. You can mustard some effort up in important situations.

[BarberSchool]

Offensive talent is less likely to compound than defensive talent imo.

Think about it like this, if I have 5 elite offensive players, I still only have 1 ball. I can only score 1 time each possession. At a certain point, we see diminishing returns.

On the flip side, If I have 5 elite defensive players, you have nowhere to attack. Playing 4 elite defenders and 1 liability gives the other team a good point to attack, reducing the impact of the 4 other defenders. Having 1 elite defender and 4 liabilities means teams can mostly just avoid the elite defender (Rudy Gobert-type paint protectors being the exception).

I know this isn't answering the question, but I'd much rather have a team starting 5 elite defenders, even if only one is strong on offense, over a team with 5 elite offensive players, but only 1 who plays defense. What would it look like if the 2001 76ers played the '20-21 Jazz?
All accurate/valid/well-thought-out points.

But guess what ?
Team offense still wins lol

[Neal Romer]

If I were to make a team of legitimate superstar players, I'd prob go something like

Curry
Harden
Luka
Dirk
Jokic

Payton
2016 Kawhi
Pippen
KG
Russell

I tried to use guys who even if they were still good offensively, were unquestionably more valued for their defense. Team offense would likely still be considered the favorite by most, but you need to at least have the talent level be somewhat equal, choosing an All-NBA Team to play a bunch of role players isn't proving anything.


:wtf: :facepalm



https://youtu.be/W7BW9gv_OkU?si=_iEj3X8eUQE1G-8k

[Wardell Curry]

Some of those players that are supposedly bad at defense in your all offensive lineup are actually good at defense.

You guys are terrible at putting this list together. I can't be bothered, but just know your perception of certain players defensive production is flawed.

[Neal Romer]

Some of those players that are supposedly bad at defense in your all offensive lineup are actually good at defense.

You guys are terrible at putting this list together. I can't be bothered, but just know your perception of certain players defensive production is flawed.


Correct or not, theyve all been accused or carried the reputation of bad defense at one time or another.

If you can think of better examples of currently active good offense bad defense players, by all means list them.

[90sgoat]

You'd want a big team for all defense:

Jrue
Amen Thompson
Jaden McDaniels
Wemby
Toody

[iamgine]

Offense and defense is equal.

It's just players have a higher base for defense. For example, Steve Nash. Universally called really bad defender. But have you seen him play? Guy can defend. At least enough that no Kris Dunn is going to go by him easily, especially with good size at the rim.

If you really want zero defense, switch out the second team when they're defending with a high school team. Watch as Kris Dunn and Dyson Daniels suddenly score 50.