LA backing out of the Mark Williams trade was stupid as hell

[Im Still Ballin]

:facepalm Rudes just dropped 27 and 24 on us!

[Full Court]

Poetic justice.

[90sgoat]

GMs are one of the worst impidents for NBA success.

Always thinking they'll get their guy the next window and never do, instead of just getting someone good enough.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Wasn't that health related? You don't wanna give up assets for spoiled goods.

[Im Still Ballin]

Wasn't that health related? You don't wanna give up assets for spoiled goods.

Stop the cope.

[90sgoat]

Wasn't that health related? You don't wanna give up assets for spoiled goods.

Which asset?

Redick didn't play Knecht a single minute.

[Im Still Ballin]

https://x.com/MarkWi1liams/status/1917804395921629685

[ImKobe]

Which asset?

Redick didn't play Knecht a single minute.


His health is a serious problem and Lakers would've given up a pick swap + an unprotected 1st for him if they didn't back out of the trade. That would've basically been an all in move on a guy that averages about 35 games played a year.

[Im Still Ballin]

His health is a serious problem and Lakers would've given up a pick swap + an unprotected 1st for him if they didn't back out of the trade. That would've basically been an all in move on a guy that averages about 35 games played a year.

Stop the ****ing cope.

[ImKobe]

Stop the ****ing cope.

How is it cope? Sacrificing two 1sts for a guy who isn't a good defender and who can't stay on the court is a massive gamble.

[999Guy]

Pelinka is ass on a toilet as a GM.

And they just gave the idiot an extension. Stupid ownership, incompetent FO.

LAL is a death sentence for NBA careers for the first time in its history. If LeBron wasn't such a Hollywood socialite boob I'd feel bad for him but he chose LA for non-basketball reasons.

Luka on the other hand, got his career sabotaged by a team that desperately needs him. Really horrible turn, but he has a chance to do the manly thing and enter free agency. If he doesn't he'll be dealing with shitty poorly constructed teams until his prime leaves him.

[ArbitraryWater]

GMs in the NBA suck.

Its been so obvious at several stages that the lakers could use an interior presence to fill their squad, there were several options, everyone knew it...

Twitter said it, RGM said it, ISH talked about it...


but the freakin GM cant/wont get it done and leaves the roster unfullfiled, and their title chances up for chance.

Its inexplicable incompetence.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Wasn't that health related? You don't wanna give up assets for spoiled goods.As mentioned, Knecht didn't play. He could be useful to some other team but by not playing him Redick sets his value to the Lakers at "0" so even though Williams would have to be load managed as hard as anyone if he gives them 25 minutes last night so that Gobert doesn't look like Wilt he's easily worth Knecht.

[StrongLurk]

It wasn't dumb if the Lakers have future plans this offseason/next year to get an even better big.

[Real Men Wear Green]

It wasn't dumb if the Lakers have future plans this offseason/next year to get an even better big.
Lebron james is 40. They don't have time for future plans like that.

[ImKobe]

As mentioned, Knecht didn't play. He could be useful to some other team but by not playing him Redick sets his value to the Lakers at "0" so even though Williams would have to be load managed as hard as anyone if he gives them 25 minutes last night so that Gobert doesn't look like Wilt he's easily worth Knecht.

Is he also worth a pick swap AND an unprotected 1st?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Is he also worth a pick swap AND an unprotected 1st? For the sake of maximizing the remaining time James had its worth it. If he can stay healthy then he would even be worth it individually but regardless the bigger picture is playing for a championship while James is still playing at a high level. It's very possible that at this time next year James is just doing 15 and 7 or isn't even playing because of an injury. He's going to be 41. Has a player over 40 ever been one of the best two players in a championship team?

[ImKobe]

For the sake of maximizing the remaining time James had its worth it. If he can stay healthy then he would even be worth it individually but regardless the bigger picture is playing for a championship while James is still playing at a high level. It's very possible that at this time next year James is just doing 15 and 7 or isn't even playing because of an injury. He's going to be 41. Has a player over 40 ever been one of the best two players in a championship team?

You want to keep Luka past next year you don't give up your remaining picks for a guy who can't stay on the court and who isn't a good defensive player despite his physical tools.

Valanciunas was available and Kings got him for two 2nd rounders. The guy's only 32 years old and hasn't had any health problems and could've given the Lakers a solid 20 minutes per game in this series at least. He averaged 15/11 in 23 mpg against OKC in the Playoffs last year and looked solid for the Kings when they did give him a lot of minutes vs. good teams. Only making 10 million a year too..

[Real Men Wear Green]

You want to keep Luka past next year you don't give up your remaining picks for a guy who can't stay on the court and who isn't a good defensive player despite his physical tools.

Valanciunas was available and Kings got him for two 2nd rounders. The guy's only 32 years old and hasn't had any health problems and could've given the Lakers a solid 20 minutes per game in this series at least. He averaged 15/11 in 23 mpg against OKC in the Playoffs last year and looked solid for the Kings when they did give him a lot of minutes vs. good teams. Only making 10 million a year too..
They went after Williams in part because Doncic wanted him. If they are making moves to keep Doncic happy they actually blew it on that front as well. Regardless which superstar has ever left the Lakers as a free agent? It doesn't happen. In fact when it comes to few agents they have the advantage over everyone, how do you think they got James and AD?

Some other team getting Valanciunas or any other player has nothing to do with anything. That deal has nothing to do with this one.

[Jasper]

they needed a 5 just like milwaukee

[90sgoat]

Just having Kleber healthy would have helped.

[Im Still Ballin]

How is it cope? Sacrificing two 1sts for a guy who isn't a good defender and who can't stay on the court is a massive gamble.
Just stop. You don't know what you're talking about; you're regurgitating things you've read online and taken them wholly as fact. Zero nuance to your analysis.

He's a bad defender? According to whom? Based on what? To what degree does effort and playing on one of the shittest teams factor into the equation?

He's injury-prone? Okay. And how much have the missed games total over his first three seasons been due to injury and not tanking? How urgent was it to actually get him on the court?

On one hand, you deride Mark for only playing a small amount of games over his first three seasons. But then you try to use this small sample size to judge his defense. Makes little sense. There's just as much evidence he's a good defensive player as a bad one if we're going to use the small sample. His entire rookie season (including starting out in the G League), post All-Star break this year:


LAL could've really used his paint protection, rebounding, passing, and play finishing. His interior contesting numbers went up after the trade drama—a combination of more effort and continuing to recover from being out injured.

Mark Williams' interior contesting post All-Star break (21 games): >6ft: 60.7% DFG (-4.8) on 5.8 DFGA; <10ft: 59.3% DFG (-2.0) on 7.1 DFGA

Those numbers are comparable to Lopez (-4.1 and -2.1), Hartenstein (-5.9 and -7.7), Mobley (-5.8 and -5.5), Ware (-3.9 and -2.6), N. Reid (-3.4 and -1.4), and Sengun (-5.9 and -5.0) over that stretch. All of them are on much better teams currently in the playoffs. Mark's numbers would improve with a better supporting cast.

We need to stop exaggerating about his alleged defensive deficiencies. The boost to LAL's half-court offense and synergy playing alongside good defenders would've made him assuredly a positive on defense.

The on-court fit with LAL was great, and it made perfect sense financially and timeline-wise.

WHO CARES what Mark Williams does in three years time? He's on a cheap-ass rookie salary for 2024-25 and 2025-26 and LA needs to win NOW because LeBron is 40 and Austin is on the best contract in the NBA. Imagine thinking Dalton Knecht and a late FRP are good reasons not to go all in on winning a championship this year and next...

I hope that Dalton Knecht and the coveted 2031 late FRP amount to something. But I have a feeling it might not, and we could be left wondering what if re: the 2024-25 Lakers. But I guess there's no urgency or anything. Not like LeBron is 40. No need to try to win now, right? Mark is still on rookie salary, too. Hard to find production at such a price.

LOL.

[Im Still Ballin]

Knecht, a pick swap, and a late FRP? Garbage assets. Mark would've put them over the top, all-in to win a chip this year and the next. You take that chance 10 times out of 10.

LA's not going to get another chance to acquire a high-level rim runner on a rookie salary. Reaves will seek the max after next year, too. Could've had Luka, LBJ, Reaves, Williams, and co. for 24-25 and 25-26...

[Neal Romer]

Knecht, a pick swap, and a late FRP? Garbage assets. Mark would've put them over the top, all-in to win a chip this year and the next. You take that chance 10 times out of 10.

LA's not going to get another chance to acquire a high-level rim runner on a rookie salary. Reaves will seek the max after next year, too. Could've had Luka, LBJ, Reaves, Williams, and co. for 24-25 and 25-26...

So he's good on offense, good on defense, isnt injury prone, and plays a highly coveted position. At 24 years old.

Why exactly are the Hornets trading him for Dalton Knecht?

[Im Still Ballin]

So he's good on offense, good on defense, isnt injury prone, and plays a highly coveted position. At 24 years old.

Why exactly are the Hornets trading him for Dalton Knecht?

Because they're the ****ing Charlotte Hornets? Dumb teams do stupid shit all the time. Because they want to tank? Because he's half-assing it and they don't want to pay him? It's not about his value to the Hornets, it's about his value to the Lakers.

[ImKobe]

Just stop. You don't know what you're talking about; you're regurgitating things you've read online and taken them wholly as fact. Zero nuance to your analysis.

He's a bad defender? According to whom? Based on what? To what degree does effort and playing on one of the shittest teams factor into the equation?

He's injury-prone? Okay. And how much have the missed games total over his first three seasons been due to injury and not tanking? How urgent was it to actually get him on the court?

On one hand, you deride Mark for only playing a small amount of games over his first three seasons. But then you try to use this small sample size to judge his defense. Makes little sense. There's just as much evidence he's a good defensive player as a bad one if we're going to use the small sample. His entire rookie season (including starting out in the G League), post All-Star break this year:



The on-court fit with LAL was great, and it made perfect sense financially and timeline-wise.

WHO CARES what Mark Williams does in three years time? He's on a cheap-ass rookie salary for 2024-25 and 2025-26 and LA needs to win NOW because LeBron is 40 and Austin is on the best contract in the NBA. Imagine thinking Dalton Knecht and a late FRP are good reasons not to go all in on winning a championship this year and next...

I hope that Dalton Knecht and the coveted 2031 late FRP amount to something. But I have a feeling it might not, and we could be left wondering what if re: the 2024-25 Lakers. But I guess there's no urgency or anything. Not like LeBron is 40. No need to try to win now, right? Mark is still on rookie salary, too. Hard to find production at such a price.

LOL.

Mark Williams has never played any meaningful minutes in his life and can't stay on the court. The stats are meaningless here to begin with and it's the shots that don't get contested that's the issue. Lakers needed to trade for a proven vet who could stay on the court. People shit on the trade when it happened even though the Lakers did need a big man and now you're here crying about them not gambling on him because of what happened in this series.

[warriorfan]

Knecht, a pick swap, and a late FRP? Garbage assets. Mark would've put them over the top, all-in to win a chip this year and the next. You take that chance 10 times out of 10.

LA's not going to get another chance to acquire a high-level rim runner on a rookie salary. Reaves will seek the max after next year, too. Could've had Luka, LBJ, Reaves, Williams, and co. for 24-25 and 25-26...

I agree. I didn’t take the Lakers very seriously when they first got Luka. After that Williams trade I started to get concerned. Was nice when they sent him back from a Warriors fan’s perspective. I still thought the Lakers had enough juice to get to the second round but Minny ended up handling them.

[Wardell Curry]

Only in the sense that they don't play Dalton anyways.

Williams was injured half the year.

[Neal Romer]

Only in the sense that they don't play Dalton anyways.

Williams was injured half the year.


They didnt play him this year but he has three more years left under contract.

They may unload Rui for cap savings this summer and put DFS in the starting lineup and Knecht would step in behind him.

Or they could move Knecht (again) to move up in the draft if possible and maybe get a center like Maluach if he falls low enough.

Productive players on rookie deals is huge in the apron era. I think thats why they rethought the Williams trade. Williams is gonna be due for an extension soon, Knecht has three more years at scale. It's important for their long term cap outlook that they make use of Knecht either by having him on the court or trading him for another value contract this summer. They would be hard pressed to pay Williams next year with Lebron and Luka on a max, Reaves due for a big extension and presumably a commitment to DFS who fits perfectly with Luka.

It sucks for them this year that Williams could have helped but it's understandable given the questions around his health and
whether they could even keep him beyond next season.

Edit: Or maybe Charlotte could be persuaded to trade MW for Rui instead :lol. He did have a nice season and playoff series. He could fit in on the wing in Charlotte.

[coin24]

Backing out of the trade cost them the season basically..

They have to build around luka, not letiny.. he’ll probably only play one more season he’ll be 41 ffs:facepalm

[Im Still Ballin]

Mark Williams has never played any meaningful minutes in his life and can't stay on the court. The stats are meaningless here to begin with and it's the shots that don't get contested that's the issue. Lakers needed to trade for a proven vet who could stay on the court. People shit on the trade when it happened even though the Lakers did need a big man and now you're here crying about them not gambling on him because of what happened in this series.

The cope continues. The only way this looks good for LAL is if they acquire a big better than Williams. But guess what? That'll cost them a lot of assets and/or salary cap. Mark's value was that he was on a rookie salary this season and the next. Productive players on rookie deals are extremely valuable in this new CBA era.

Good luck finding a center as productive as Mark for that cheap.

[Im Still Ballin]

They didnt play him this year but he has three more years left under contract.

They may unload Rui for cap savings this summer and put DFS in the starting lineup and Knecht would step in behind him.

Or they could move Knecht (again) to move up in the draft if possible and maybe get a center like Maluach if he falls low enough.

Productive players on rookie deals is huge in the apron era. I think thats why they rethought the Williams trade. Williams is gonna be due for an extension soon, Knecht has three more years at scale. It's important for their long term cap outlook that they make use of Knecht either by having him on the court or trading him for another value contract this summer. They would be hard pressed to pay Williams next year with Lebron and Luka on a max, Reaves due for a big extension and presumably a commitment to DFS who fits perfectly with Luka.

It sucks for them this year that Williams could have helped but it's understandable given the questions around his health and
whether they could even keep him beyond next season.

Edit: Or maybe Charlotte could be persuaded to trade MW for Rui instead :lol. He did have a nice season and playoff series. He could fit in on the wing in Charlotte.

Bolded is why Mark (rookie salary for 2024-25 and 2025-26) would've been so valuable for LAL. No offense to Knecht, but he hasn't displayed the production Williams has - at a position of need, no less.

[ImKobe]

The cope continues. The only way this looks good for LAL is if they acquire a big better than Williams. But guess what? That'll cost them a lot of assets and/or salary cap. Mark's value was that he was on a rookie salary this season and the next. Productive players on rookie deals are extremely valuable in this new CBA era.

Good luck finding a center as productive as Mark for that cheap.

No it won't. Williams hasn't done shit to be considered better than anyone. Averaging 35 games a year and decent numbers on a bottom team in the league isn't putting you above vets who have been there in the Playoffs and put up those same numbers in JV, who got traded for two 2nd rounders lol.

[Meticode]

No it won't. Williams hasn't done shit to be considered better than anyone. Averaging 35 games a year and decent numbers on a bottom team in the league isn't putting you above vets who have been there in the Playoffs and put up those same numbers in JV, who got traded for two 2nd rounders lol.

I understand what you're trying to say but Cam Reddish and Dalton Knecht certainly didn't do shit. They reserved the trade and kept them on the bench most of the season and all playoffs.

[ImKobe]

I understand what you're trying to say but Cam Reddish and Dalton Knecht certainly didn't do shit. They reserved the trade and kept them on the bench most of the season and all playoffs.

Would've been a good trade if it was just Knecht for Williams and 2nd rounders or a protected 1st. Knecht's on a great contract and played pretty well but Lakers just had too many mediocre-bad defenders in their rotation already he just wouldn't have made sense for the POs though they probably should've given him more minutes in the series while resting Luka or Reaves. He looked good in G1.

[Im Still Ballin]

No it won't. Williams hasn't done shit to be considered better than anyone.

Yes it will. Stop coping. We have a good idea of what type of player Mark is. 2507 MP. High-level rim-runner who's a great lob threat, strong offensive rebounder, solid and burgeoning passer, can hit FTs, strong on the defensive boards, solid paint deterrent.

His production at his salary is very hard to find.


Averaging 35 games a year and decent numbers on a bottom team in the league isn't putting you above vets who have been there in the Playoffs and put up those same numbers in JV, who got traded for two 2nd rounders lol.

More like 45-50 because his rookie coach, Steve Clifford, doesn't like to play rookies, and he was in the G League for the first part of the season. Which had nothing to do with performance, just ask CHA fans. The Hornets' defense and overall production went notably up once Plumlee was shipped out and Mark began starting.

And it's probably higher than that because they've been tanking all three years.

A player's impact is conditional; his value is to a specific team/circumstance. Mark's worth to 2024-25 and 2025-26 LAL was very strong because of the on-court fit and low cost relative to production. And the alignment with LAL's timeline/window of contention. The Lakers don't need him to play 82 games or starter-level minutes. 20 MPG and healthy for the '25 and '26 postseasons is enough ROI.

And he was healthy for the 2025 playoffs. So, he would've satisfied half of the deal already.

[ImKobe]

Yes it will. Stop coping. We have a good idea of what type of player Mark is. 2507 MP. High-level rim-runner who's a great lob threat, strong offensive rebounder, solid and burgeoning passer, can hit FTs, strong on the defensive boards, solid paint deterrent.

His production at his salary is very hard to find.





So he's an elite offensive player at his position and a great defensive player, and the Hornets just wanted to give him away on his very team-friendly contract for two "worthless" late 1st round picks and Knecht? Lakers realized it was too good to be true and found something in that physical. Obviously Williams isn't going to admit to anything and the Hornets aren't either because he's looking for a big contract after next year and the Hornets want to keep his value as high as possible.

Lakers screwed up not getting a reliable big man, but I'm not gonna be on board with saying the Lakers screwed up not getting this particular player until I see how he looks long-term. It would make no sense backing out of that trade if what you're saying is true. There had to be something. Lakers just needed to go with a safe option at the Center position and they had years to make it happen. I wouldn't blame it all on this one move.