Jokic or Hakeem?

[ShawkFactory]

All-time great defense - mostly judged by today's perimeter oriented game. I'd like to see Jokic vs real big men - you know, the Shaqs, Hakeems, DRobs, etc of the world - not Alex Caruso.

I STRONGLY disagree with the better teammate talent - Hakeem had one of the weakest cast to ever win a ring. Murray can go off for 30 easily.

Well yea...you have to judge a team's defense based on the league they play in. It's not really relevant that they wouldn't be as good at guarding Shaq as some in the 90s/00s. They aren't designed to..

[StrongLurk]

Murray hasn't technically made all-star, but to say he isn't all-star level? That's crazy. I don't think anyone would bat an eye if ever made all-star.

I'll give you that he's not the most consistent and he can be streaky, but his highs surpass a lot of guys in the league. When he's having a good game he's a real difference maker on the floor and a very dynamic presence. In fact sometimes he does shit that only he can do.

Murray has had one all-star level playoff run over the last 5 years. He completely missed two playoffs, was like 50% in 2024, and was super mid this year.

Jokic simply has had the least amount of help out of any MVP winner. Not even a SINLGE all-star bro. That's insane no matter how you slice it.

[StrongLurk]

Sure. Not on the “level” of VanVleet and Deangelo Russell. As I said Jokic does not need a lying ass/delusional weirdo making teammates out to be bums when they had legit HOF caliber runs. The fans on that shit always breed more resentment than they actually change minds. Jokic gets nothing from this bs but haters he doesn’t deserve.

Never said Murray was a bum, but he's had one elite playoff run over the last 5 yeas. The biggest problem is Murray is always HURT. Didn't even play in 2021 or 2022 playoffs, 50% health last year, and was simply mid this year.

People are acting like Jokic has the 2023 Jamal Murray every year...

[GOBB]

Sure. Not on the “level” of VanVleet and Deangelo Russell. As I said Jokic does not need a lying ass/delusional weirdo making teammates out to be bums when they had legit HOF caliber runs. The fans on that shit always breed more resentment than they actually change minds. Jokic gets nothing from this bs but haters he doesn’t deserve.

Game blouses.

[StrongLurk]

Game blouses.

Jamal Murray missed the 2021 and 2022 playoffs.

Here is his production in the 2024 and 2025 playoffs: 26 games, 13.9 PER, 51.6 TS%, 0.31 WS/48, 0.5 BPM.

[tpols]

Murray has honestly been trash outside of 1 real playoff stretch and as a Kobe fan I have to be grateful for it because the Lebron AD Lakers would've been champs in 2023 if he didn't go nuts out of nowhere.

Literally turned into MJ in the middle of the series for a couple games. But that was fluke. Dude is a simple all star talent who gets hot once in a while. Somebody like Clyde Drexler was 10x more valuable as a talent piece.

[ArbitraryWater]

Murray has honestly been trash outside of 1 real playoff stretch and as a Kobe fan I have to be grateful for it because the Lebron AD Lakers would've been champs in 2023 if he didn't go nuts out of nowhere.

Literally turned into MJ in the middle of the series for a couple games. But that was fluke. Dude is a simple all star talent who gets hot once in a while. Somebody like Clyde Drexler was 10x more valuable as a talent piece.

:(

[gengiskhan]

2 x NBA DPOY

2 x NBA FMVP over Arch Nemesis 1994 Ewing, 1995 Shaq

NBA ROY Runner-Up only because GOAT decided to forgo his Senior year.

2 x NBA Block Shots Leader

2 x NBA Rebounding Champion.

2 x NBA MVP Runner-Up (lost to GOAT, Lost to Admiral)

1 x NBA Season MVP