Steph Curry is the most impactful player of all time and the GOAT (Proof inside)

[warriorfan]

https://i.postimg.cc/Y91K87tC/IMG-6494.jpg
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[04mzwach]

id like to see those numbers without the playoffs because' obviously you lose without your star player in the playoffs.

[ArbitraryWater]

id like to see those numbers without the playoffs because' obviously you lose without your star player in the playoffs.

Yeah, this.

Like Kobes 2013 Lakers getting swept against the Spurs.

[White Hammer]

It's honestly not a bad GOAT list given that it's a single metric. Guys like Magic/Kareem get overrated due to their team success.
Jokic, West, and Dirk are more fairly ranked here than you usually see. If I have to declare Steph the GOAT to get these other rankings then sure lets do it :cheers:

[Nb1]

They weren’t even going to make the playoffs before Jimmy came. Of course things change with one of your best players out if you dont have an insane deep team like Boston.

Crazy that Bron is basically also number 1.

[Nb1]

I think the Warriors were actually 9-3 in the playoffs without Curry before this series. It depends also how deep your team is and who you’re facing. But yeah, take number 1 or 2 out in a not crazy deep team and you’re gonna struggle in the playoffs vs a good team.

Only Bron doesnt get a pass, dude gets sh** on with Kyrie and Love injured playing with Shumpert and Dellavedova against a 5 all star team in the warriors lol.

[tpols]

That looks like a pretty awesome GOAT list.

There's no outliers.

[Wardell Curry]

For opposing teams, he's certainly the most disruptive player on offense ever. The only other player in that conversation is Shaquille.

[StrongLurk]

Lebron's absurd sample size makes his spot more impressive than Curry's just related to this list. Almost 700 more games...

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron's absurd sample size makes his spot more impressive than Curry's just related to this list. Almost 700 more games...

True. And on top of that, has Lebron ever missed a playoff game?

[Baller234]

Can't be the GOAT because he couldn't dominate without the 3pt line.

[Keno]

lebron's got nearly double curry's games played, and he's only behind by 0.2%, clear cut reason why he's the undisputed goat. :applause:

[SouBeachTalents]

I'm assuming they did not factor in the 55 win season the Bulls had without Jordan.

I'm also surprised KD isn't last after the absurd record the Warriors piled up without him while he was on Golden State. They went something ridiculous like 31-1 in games Curry played and he didn't

[Axe]

True. And on top of that, has Lebron ever missed a playoff game?
Don't let eliteballer read that. Or else, he'll inevitably bring up roids again.

[Neal Romer]

It's funny because I was going to make a thread about how strange it is that the Warriors and Nuggets dont even have a player LIKE their superstar on the depth chart. Youd think if youre gonna build so specifically around one guy, you want someone else with a similar style available, even tho it's obviously gonna be a knockoff version. At least you can still play the same way if the guy gets hurt.

It would actually make sense to keep an "understudy" of sorts to your franchise player on the roster. This chart basically speaks to that very thing.

[tpols]

It's funny because I was going to make a thread about how strange it is that the Warriors and Nuggets dont even have a player LIKE their superstar on the depth chart. Youd think if youre gonna build so specifically around one guy, you want someone else with a similar style available, even tho it's obviously gonna be a knockoff version. At least you can still play the same way if the guy gets hurt.

It would actually make sense to keep an "understudy" of sorts to your franchise player on the roster. This chart basically speaks to that very thing.

There's nobody in the league like Curry or Jokic. Actually nobody in the history of the game like them. Theyre unicorn style players.

[ArbitraryWater]

If you contextualize this chart slightly, Bron becomes the surefire GOAT(games played, no missed playoff gms for him).

[Neal Romer]

There's nobody in the league like Curry or Jokic. Actually nobody in the history of the game like them. Theyre unicorn style players.

Ok but you could at least have a second true point guard on the depth chart which the Warriors dont, and the Nuggets could at least have a post playing center. Even if theyre not elite players which of course as backups they wouldnt be.

But I dont think a true point guard or a traditional center is an impossible ask.

[StrongLurk]

There's nobody in the league like Curry or Jokic. Actually nobody in the history of the game like them. Theyre unicorn style players.

Agreed, extremely fascinating "modern" NBA players. They would seem like aliens in the 90's.

[3ba11]

Nice fake list lol

You guys fell for it

warriorsfan always does this

[3ba11]

There's nobody in the league like Curry or Jokic. Actually nobody in the history of the game like them. Theyre unicorn style players.


They're unicorns but they always fail when their teammates fail...

Specifically, the reason that they can't carry bed-wetting teammates over top teams is because they lack the dominant scoring ability of the goat (MJ).. MJ is the only player in history that consistently carried the scoring and clutch load, so only MJ won many series vs top teams with bed-wetting teammates.

Btw, warriorsfan made this list up - it's fake, and he does this all the time.. One more thing - nugs win tonight and the young thunder feel the pressure in Game 7.

[Naero]

That actually would make a solid top-seventeen GOAT list. The exact order of rankings would be flawed, of course, but it's hard to argue against any of the inclusions (except for maybe Jokic at this point in time).

I'd be interested to see Curry's win differential during the non-KD games. The 2018 playoffs for example, where they went 5-1 with KD against early-round fodder, probably skews it against him a bit.

[3ba11]

That actually would make a solid top-seventeen GOAT list. The exact order of rankings would be flawed, of course, but it's hard to argue against any of the inclusions (except for maybe Jokic at this point in time).

I'd be interested to see Curry's win differential during the non-KD games. The 2018 playoffs for example, where they went 5-1 with KD against early-round fodder, probably skews it against him a bit.


It's a fake list you dumbasses!!!.. lol

[pegasus]

Not sure if these numbers are even accurate, but we all know that Lebron has carefully selected games to sit out against tough opponents throughout the entire second half of his career, manipulating a narrative that his teams were bad without him. There were even times where he made sure Wade, Kyrie, AD sit out the same games so that the team would have no chance of winning.

I'd be curious to see the numbers from the long stretches of games that he missed due to injuries, because those would paint a much more accurate picture.

[SouBeachTalents]

Not sure if these numbers are even accurate, but we all know that Lebron has carefully selected games to sit out against tough opponents throughout the entire second half of his career, manipulating a narrative that his teams were bad without him. There were even times where he made sure Wade, Kyrie, AD sit out the same games so that the team would have no chance of winning.

I'd be curious to see the numbers from the long stretches of games that he missed due to injuries, because those would paint a much more accurate picture.
Do you seriously believe LeBron could manipulate enough games over an 1800 game sample to intentionally put himself at a fraction below 1st place? To prove how moronic your theory is

2008: 0-5
2015: 1-7
2019: 6-11
2021: 12-16
2022: 3-5
2023: 8-4

30-48

38.46%, identical to the figure in the chart :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

Not sure if these numbers are even accurate, but we all know that Lebron has carefully selected games to sit out against tough opponents throughout the entire second half of his career, manipulating a narrative that his teams were bad without him.


No, I dont think we all know that actually :lol

[tpols]

Not sure if these numbers are even accurate, but we all know that Lebron has carefully selected games to sit out against tough opponents throughout the entire second half of his career, manipulating a narrative that his teams were bad without him. There were even times where he made sure Wade, Kyrie, AD sit out the same games so that the team would have no chance of winning.

I'd be curious to see the numbers from the long stretches of games that he missed due to injuries, because those would paint a much more accurate picture.

He has done that a ton especially since joining LA, but even if you removed those cherry picked stretches he'd still be at least in the middle of this list. Probably somewhere right below Kobe, but slightly above MJ.

[White Hammer]

It's funny because I was going to make a thread about how strange it is that the Warriors and Nuggets dont even have a player LIKE their superstar on the depth chart. Youd think if youre gonna build so specifically around one guy, you want someone else with a similar style available, even tho it's obviously gonna be a knockoff version. At least you can still play the same way if the guy gets hurt.

It would actually make sense to keep an "understudy" of sorts to your franchise player on the roster. This chart basically speaks to that very thing.

As far as I understand it that's what Dario Saric was supposed to be for the Nuggets this year. They gave him a little burn early in the season, but for whatever reason they decided it wasn't working out, and the remainder of the year they just went with DAJ or smallball center while Jok sat.

I didn't get to see Saric play much, but I remember him getting a lot of turnovers in his limited minutes. As bad as he looked I assumed things would improve with more time/adjustment. Apparently he was really good for the Warriors last year too, so it was weird to me how quickly they pulled the plug on him. I can't help but think the Saric situation was just one more mistake that got Mike Malone fired.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Lebron's win difference would be much higher if he stayed with Cavs all his career, carrying trash teams to 60 wins and probably 0 rings. Would that make him a better player? I don't think so. It's harder to add wins to good teams. I also value higher ceiling more higher floor. A guy like Draymond could absolutely suck in a vacuum but in a contender he is often amazing. Also being your team's only ball handler would inflate your impact. And having no backups. When did Jokic have a decent backup? It might feel redundant but it would affect this stat.

[3ba11]

1986: 21-43
1989: 0-1
1992: 0-2
1993: 1-3
1995: 34-31
2002: 7-15
___________
63-95


MJ was out of the league in 94', so it shouldn't be included in the totals - that would be like including the 2003 Spurs' record to Lebron's total.... "b-b-but Lebron wasn't in the league for the 2003 season"... exactly

Furthermore, great brands of basketball and great teams will have better records without the star player than crappier teams/sweep losers/record losers/chokers.. This is intuitive... We should expect less equitable/weaker brands of ball and paper tiger offenses to fall off more without the star than strong, championship brands of ball..

And these championship brands are founded in the star's skillset, since every dynasty used ball movement system that required elite off-ball players like Duncan, Curry, Shaq and MJ - this requirement of dynasties (ball movement system) excludes ball-dominators from ever producing a dynasty.

So again, fake list.

[SouBeachTalents]

1986: 21-43
1989: 0-1
1992: 0-2
1993: 1-3
1995: 34-31
2002: 7-15
___________
63-95


MJ was out of the league in 94', so it shouldn't be included in the totals - that would be like including the 2003 Spurs' record to Lebron's total.... "b-b-but Lebron wasn't in the league for the 2003 season"... exactly

Furthermore, great brands of basketball and great teams will have better records without the star player than crappier teams/sweep losers/record losers/chokers.. This is intuitive... We should expect less equitable/weaker brands of ball and paper tiger offenses to fall off more without the star than strong, championship brands of ball..

And these championship brands are founded in the star's skillset, since every dynasty used ball movement system that required elite off-ball players like Duncan, Curry, Shaq and MJ - this requirement of dynasties (ball movement system) excludes ball-dominators from ever producing a dynasty.

So again, fake list.
You forgot the 55 win season.

[3ba11]

You forgot the 55 win season.


You forgot the 60 wins of the 2003 Spurs to add to Lebron's total.





You forgot the 55 win season.


Guys like Jordan, Curry, Shaq, or Lebron were great right away and don't have the development from bad players to good players that Klay, Pippen, Middleton and secondary producers do... This is why the only guys that have a full development curve on the NBA level and actually "develop" are secondary producers like Klay, Pippen and Siakam (not the franchise players like Jordan, Shaq, etc who are good right away).

So the point is that Pippen wasn't a "franchise player" that could build a lottery team from scratch... He was simply handed the goat dynasty, which he cratered to barely .500 in less than 18 months.





You forgot the 55 win season.


The Bulls were 1-5 without Jordan 92' and 93', so the 55 wins in 94' required the development of 3-peat basketball...

In addition to 3-peat basketball, the 94' Bulls also required sleeping opponents... It's bball 101 that "letdown" games are a big part of basketball, and the 94' Bulls were the biggest letdown game of all-time.. Every player in the league had family members cancel on them when Jordan suddenly retired right before the season - the biggest game of their life became the smallest game.

In addition to 3-peat basketball and sleeping opponents, those Bulls required a completely different roster that included a "closer" that MJ never had (Kukoc)... Kukoc won 4 games at the buzzer and many more in the 4th, plus a historic playoff winner to avoid an 0-3 deficit to NY... So regardless of the brief honeymoon, the goat dynasty cratered to barely .500 in less than 18 months.. Ultimately, since any decent scorer can supplant Pippen, teams lack capacity to add talent by building around Pippen, which is why no team ever did..

[tpols]

Naero brought up a point that actually lopsided this list and stat even more.


Never mind the thread backfire; the stat was overrated to begin with. :oldlol:

Top-tier playoff opponents without Curry? 8/12 wins came against 7-8 seeds in the first round, against a dysfunctional Rockets team and the Kawhi-less Spurs (with KD to lead the Warriors) in 2016 and 2018 respectively.

In this year's win against the Wolves, he played long enough for his team to take control of the game, and Minnesota wasn't immediately able to capitalize on his absence. They easily did so the rest of the series once they had time to adjust.

All context considered, only several of those wins at most were truly remarkable. Most teams can and do buck the odds here and there without their MVP. We all saw how Curry's fared without him for a longer stretch against a playoff-level opponent in the Wolves.

Given this context, Chef still may be undersold.

[3ba11]

.
Don't take my word for it - letdown games are a big thing in the NBA:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rrHvei0DC3I


Again, the 94' Bulls were the biggest letdown game of all-time

[pegasus]

Do you seriously believe LeBron could manipulate enough games over an 1800 game sample to intentionally put himself at a fraction below 1st place? To prove how moronic your theory is

2008: 0-5
2015: 1-7
2019: 6-11
2021: 12-16
2022: 3-5
2023: 8-4

30-48

38.46%, identical to the figure in the chart :lol

What does the entire game sample have to do with this? As you pointed out, looks like he missed only 78 games during that stretch, which is a pretty small sample size to manipulate by choosing to sit against tough opponents.

[SouBeachTalents]

What does the entire game sample have to do with this? As you pointed out, looks like he missed only 78 games during that stretch, which is a pretty small sample size to manipulate by choosing to sit against tough opponents.
Bro, this is what you said in your post


I'd be curious to see the numbers from the long stretches of games that he missed due to injuries, because those would paint a much more accurate picture.

That's what those numbers represent, I left out all games he sat due to load management or at the end of the season, those games I listed were strictly games he missed due to injury, where he couldn't possibly manipulate who he was sitting out against. And as that shows, the win% doesn't change even a fraction, it's identical.

The guy happened to be quite durable before he came to LA so the sample size for a 22 year career should be bigger than it is, but a whole season's worth of games paints a big enough picture.

[Overdrive]

How can you guys even argue that Lebron isn't impactful? I don't like him, the reasons he is so impactful can be argued and 3ball's moronic statements would hold some merrit to some extent, but they're presented in the most idiotic, dishonest way possible. What can't be argued is his impact. Any team that loses him, after a FA move or for a stretch of games, becomes worse or falls apart.

How can you deny this fact just because you don't like his game?

[3ba11]

05' HUGHES (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hughela01.html)............ 21.6 PER... 0.157 WS/48... 3.7 VORP... 4.3 BPM... 22/6/5.... 1st Team All-D
90' PIPPEN (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html).............. 16.3 PER... 0.087 WS/48... 3.0 VORP... 1.8 BPM... 16/6/5.... No All-D





How can you guys even argue that Lebron isn't impactful? I don't like him, the reasons he is so impactful can be argued and 3ball's moronic statements would hold some merrit to some extent, but they're presented in the most idiotic, dishonest way possible. What can't be argued is his impact. Any team that loses him, after a FA move or for a stretch of games, becomes worse or falls apart.

How can you deny this fact just because you don't like his game?


When we talk about the 1995 Bulls, everyone says "b-b-but they lost Horace Grant!!!"... Yet no one makes a peep about the 2011 Cavs losing their entire starting 5 that included Shaq, Varejao, Delonte, Zydrunas and Mo Williams - this was 52 ppg... The issue is that team-hoppers GUT teams and force them to start over.. So the 2011 collapse was standard due to the team-gutting that Lebron's team-hopping causes... Meanwhile, the 2015 Heat were severely injured all year (Bosh/Wade), but they nearly made the 16' ECF without Lebron.. And Love was injured for 2019, so those Cavs lacked their 1st option.. Essentially, Lebron's impact is drastically overblown.

And there's more.... 50 wins in 2006 or 2007 isn't elite floor-raising, especially since the Cavs had the East all-star center and an acquisition that was better than 1990 Pippen on both sides of the ball (above)... Then Lebron "floor-raised" the Cavs to 45 wins in 2008 - again, this isn't elite floor-raising... It wasn't until he received he all-star spacer that his stiff-arm needs in 2009 that he won 66 games - Mo joined a bad team and made them good... Ditto AD in 2020 btw...

Furthermore, Lebron added a 2x all-star and 20k scorer in 2010 that outplayed him in the 07' 1st Round (Jamison)... So the 2010 Cavs had a better scorer than Pippen at 3rd option and better defenses than the 1st three-peat Bulls.. Lebron simply gave up on this organic juggernaut, even though there was an organic chip up for grabs in 2011 that Dirk grabbed... The organic Cavs certainly had the chemistry and reputed defense to destroy those Mavs.

[Overdrive]

05' HUGHES (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hughela01.html)............ 21.6 PER... 0.157 WS/48... 3.7 VORP... 4.3 BPM... 22/6/5.... 1st Team All-D
90' PIPPEN (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html).............. 16.3 PER... 0.087 WS/48... 3.0 VORP... 1.8 BPM... 16/6/5.... No All-D







When we talk about the 1995 Bulls, everyone says "b-b-but they lost Horace Grant!!!"... Yet no one makes a peep about the 2011 Cavs losing their entire starting 5 that included Shaq, Varejao, Delonte, Zydrunas and Mo Williams - this was 52 ppg... The issue is that team-hoppers GUT teams and force them to start over.. So the 2011 collapse was standard due to the team-gutting that Lebron's team-hopping causes... Meanwhile, the 2015 Heat were severely injured all year (Bosh/Wade), but they nearly made the 16' ECF without Lebron.. And Love was injured for 2019, so those Cavs lacked their 1st option.. Essentially, Lebron's impact is drastically overblown.

And there's more.... 50 wins in 2006 or 2007 isn't elite floor-raising, especially since the Cavs had the East all-star center and an acquisition that was better than 1990 Pippen on both sides of the ball (above)... Then Lebron "floor-raised" the Cavs to 45 wins in 2008 - again, this isn't elite floor-raising... It wasn't until he received he all-star spacer that his stiff-arm needs in 2009 that he won 66 games - Mo joined a bad team and made them good... Ditto AD in 2020 btw...

Furthermore, Lebron added a 2x all-star and 20k scorer in 2010 that outplayed him in the 07' 1st Round (Jamison)... So the 2010 Cavs had a better scorer than Pippen at 3rd option and better defenses than the 1st three-peat Bulls.. Lebron simply gave up on this organic juggernaut, even though there was an organic chip up for grabs in 2011 that Dirk grabbed... The organic Cavs certainly had the chemistry and reputed defense to destroy those Mavs.

As said. Full of dishonest arguing.

[3ba11]

As said. Full of dishonest arguing.


Everything is 100% historical record - there's no subjective opinion - only stats and facts

You simply can't respond to the truth about Lebron's fraudulent and inflated career, so you say it's dishonest to continue your denial and belief in false propaganda.

[Walk on Water]

How can you guys even argue that Lebron isn't impactful? I don't like him, the reasons he is so impactful can be argued and 3ball's moronic statements would hold some merrit to some extent, but they're presented in the most idiotic, dishonest way possible. What can't be argued is his impact. Any team that loses him, after a FA move or for a stretch of games, becomes worse or falls apart.

How can you deny this fact just because you don't like his game?


That is exactly the point. EVERY team falls apart. So Lebron isn't actually developing his team to move forward as a whole. Lebron tears down teams, Jordan builds.

[Overdrive]

Everything is 100% historical record - there's no subjective opinion - only stats and facts

You simply can't respond to the truth about Lebron's fraudulent and inflated career, so you say it's dishonest to continue your denial and belief in false propaganda.

The way you present facts others could make it seem like Jordan was the 2nd most impactful player on the 90s Bulls und thus not the best player of the 90s. You always present facts, but leave out important information to form a narrative. That's the way manipulators work.


That is exactly the point. EVERY team falls apart. So Lebron isn't actually developing his team to move forward as a whole. Lebron tears down teams, Jordan builds.

Why did the 99 Bulls fall apart then?

[Keno]

I noticed OP tried to call him the GOAT, but you can’t claim that title with just one Finals MVP, especially with an asterisk on it. Curry lacks the accolades to be in the GOAT conversation. He’s in the Kobe tier, around top 15, and that’s no shade on him.

[red1]

he's aight



good basketball player. could be better.

[gengiskhan]

Curry's IMPACT so LOW and LEAST.............

He let Draymond Green destroy 73 win season with costly suspensions and literally "gifted" NBA back-2-back ring which could've been curry's 5th ring.

This is on Curry knowing Kerr is a "passive" coach unlike Phil, Pat, Papa, Red.

Draymond was never afraid of IMPACT-LESS Curry and probably would've punched him instead in the practice.