When Pippen met Ewing in the 94' Playoffs, Ewing proved easily superior, as expected

[3ba11]

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When Pippen met Ewing in the 94' Playoffs, Ewing proved easily superior, as expected:



EWING'.... 18.7 gmsc... clutch in 4th
PIPPEN.... 15.6 gmsc... 3.0 on 20% in 4th quarter (https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-21-2021/jbCxdB.gif) and numerous HISTORIC chokes (https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-21-2024/21yvSq.gif)



https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-16-2025/pVPeW1.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-21-2024/21yvSq.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-28-2024/5EZjOa.gif



Pippen was never a franchise player that built a team from scratch... He was simply handed the goat dynasty, which he cratered to barely .500 in less than 18 months..

Any decent scorer would supplant Pippen as 1st option, so building around Pippen would restrict a team's capacity to add talent.. This is why secondary producers like Pippen, Klay, or Middleton aren't franchise players.

[AussieSteve]

You realise you're comparing Jordan's sidekick with a guy who was top 5 in the world in his peak.

The key point is not whether or not Pippen was on the Ewing tier. It's that he was by far better than any other second option in the league. Like, it's not even close.

That you are starting a thread comparing him with Ewing kinda proves this.

[Meticode]

This thread makes no sense. We all know Pippen was never a true first option. He was forced into that roll. Ewing was a the primary option over half of his career.

[plowking]

Pippen averaged 1ppg less than Patrick Ewing. The most hyped college player for 20 something years, and an All NBA 1st teamer.

Pippen himself was an all NBA first teamer. Pretty good for someone we've been told is Mo Williams and Klay Thompson level. Somehow those guys never got 1st team selections.

[Meticode]

Pippen averaged 1ppg less than Patrick Ewing. The most hyped college player for 20 something years, and an All NBA 1st teamer.

Pippen himself was an all NBA first teamer. Pretty good for someone we've been told is Mo Williams and Klay Thompson level. Somehow those guys never got 1st team selections.

My favorite one is Austin Reaves is better than Pippen. I was almost laughing while typing that.

[SouBeachTalents]

You realise you're comparing Jordan's sidekick with a guy who was top 5 in the world in his peak.

The key point is not whether or not Pippen was on the Ewing tier. It's that he was by far better than any other second option in the league. Like, it's not even close.

That you are starting a thread comparing him with Ewing kinda proves this.
He's too stupid to even realize this :lol

Or the fact the Bulls were even in that position in the first place with Jordan leaving a month before the season started.


Pippen averaged 1ppg less than Patrick Ewing. The most hyped college player for 20 something years, and an All NBA 1st teamer.

Pippen himself was an all NBA first teamer. Pretty good for someone we've been told is Mo Williams and Klay Thompson level. Somehow those guys never got 1st team selections.
Pippen outscored Ewing, Isiah AND Magic during their first title run, and on numerous occasions during the title years either matched or came close to matching the other teams best player

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497969-Pippen-OUTPLAYED-opposing-team-Best-Player-Facts-inside&p=14448486&viewfull=1#post14448486

[plowking]

My favorite one is Austin Reaves is better than Pippen. I was almost laughing while typing that.

Look at all the best second options ever.

Garnett, Pippen, Kawhi on Spurs, Duncan on Spurs, Draymond, AD, Kobe 3 peat...

All guys who were great all around players and elite on D. Scoring ain't the issue for the guy next to you. He is doing the heavy lifting everywhere else.

[Baller234]

You realise you're comparing Jordan's sidekick with a guy who was top 5 in the world in his peak.

The key point is not whether or not Pippen was on the Ewing tier. It's that he was by far better than any other second option in the league. Like, it's not even close.

That you are starting a thread comparing him with Ewing kinda proves this.

Eh the bulls were not the only team from that era with two high scoring stars. I could reel off multiple examples off the top of my head where you had 20ppg guys in the #2 role at some point or another.

- James Worthy
- Joe Dumars
- Jeff Malone
- Mitch Richmond
- Tim Hardaway
- Kevin Johnson
- Anfernee Hardaway

Then you had scoring combos like:

- Kemp/Payton
- Larry/Alonzo

You get the point.

Call me crazy but I think if you replace Pippen with any of these players in their prime and they're healthy Jordan still wins championships. Maybe not Jeff Malone lol.

[plowking]

Eh the bulls were not the only team from that era with two high scoring stars. I could reel off multiple examples off the top of my head where you had 20ppg guys in the #2 role at some point or another.

- James Worthy
- Joe Dumars
- Jeff Malone
- Mitch Richmond
- Tim Hardaway
- Kevin Johnson
- Anfernee Hardaway

Then you had scoring combos like:

- Kemp/Payton
- Larry/Alonzo

You get the point.

Call me crazy but I think if you replace Pippen with any of these players in their prime and they're healthy Jordan still wins championships. Maybe not Jeff Malone lol.

Crazy that none of the guys you mentioned come close to Pippen's defense. The only player close to being as complete as Pip is Penny.

[Baller234]

Crazy that none of the guys you mentioned come close to Pippen's defense. The only player close to being as complete as Pip is Penny.

Joe Dumars? Gary Payton? Alonzo Mourning? Lol all of those guys were elite defensive players.

The Bulls would have been a great defensive team regardless if they had Pippen or not with Jordan leading the way. He still had Horace Grant and then later Dennis Rodman to help set the tone. You couldn't get a roster spot on the Bulls if you didn't play defense so all of those guys mentioned would have adjusted.

I think Jordan was going to win on any team that could alleviate some pressure off him offensively and play great defense. Pippen as great as he is... wasn't the only guy from that era who could fill that spot.

[3ba11]

You realise you're comparing Jordan's sidekick with a guy who was top 5 in the world in his peak.

The key point is not whether or not Pippen was on the Ewing tier. It's that he was by far better than any other second option in the league. Like, it's not even close.

That you are starting a thread comparing him with Ewing kinda proves this.


Pure bs fantasy

Pippen only averaged 5 assists, while every other sidekick was an all-time floor general that averaged 10 assists like Payton, Stockton, Hardaway and KJ... So among 90's sidekicks, Pippen was the worst passer, scorer, clutch player, spacer/shooter and leader.. Pippen was mostly a dunker that learned to score 20 flow points or transition in a system (system player), otherwise he was worse than Jeff Green outside the system in 89' or 99'... He got a historic contract from Houston in 99' and he was finally healthy again with a dunk frequency that returned to 97' levels, but he was horrific outside the system - so the Rockets gave him away for nothing - the MARKET proved he was nothing.

[3ba11]

He's too stupid to even realize this :lol

Or the fact the Bulls were even in that position in the first place with Jordan leaving a month before the season started.


Pippen outscored Ewing, Isiah AND Magic during their first title run, and on numerous occasions during the title years either matched or came close to matching the other teams best player

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497969-Pippen-OUTPLAYED-opposing-team-Best-Player-Facts-inside&p=14448486&viewfull=1#post14448486


You keep citing Pippen's only viable run in 1991.

In 1992, he nearly caused massive upset loss by getting destroyed by X-Man in the 2nd Round - Pippen was the only Bull that underperformed, so MJ won in spite of a so-called all-time great wetting the bed - this was standard every year, except the 91' run.

In 1993, Pippen averaged 15 on 33% and was destroyed by Dominique in the 1st Round (30 on 44% for Dominique).. Then he shot 0% from three and 59% from the line in the Finals (46.9 TS) - this horrible efficiency clogged the lane and prevented him from carrying a bigger load, which forced MJ to average 41 ppg.

Then he was outplayed by Ewing in 94'... Then he averaged 17.6 on 41% for the 96-98' Playoffs, and 11 ppg in the 99-03' Playoffs (18 on 32% in 1999).

So Pippen was a complete joke .. just a dunker and system player.. a hustler and transition type that averaged 3.0 on 20% in 4th quarters - he simply couldn't score and was a Jared Vanderbilt type - only MJ made him more.

Btw, in addition to averaging 17 on 41% for the 2nd three-peat, Pippen had the worst shooting splits that anyone ever had in the 96' and 98' Playoffs (15 game min and 35 mpg).. So MJ won with the biggest lane-clogger ever.

Pippen also has many historic CHOKES, such as the migraine in 1990, or the sit-out game in 94', or the dumb foul on Hubert Davis (above), or losing 17 point lead to miss the Finals in 2000 WCF, or missing FT's right before Miller's push-off game-winner in 98' ECF, or game-losing turnover in 99' 1st Round, or missing wide open bunny to miss 70 wins in 1997!!! (most people don't know about that one).. carry on

[Baller234]

Pure bs fantasy

Pippen only averaged 5 assists, while every other sidekick was an all-time floor general that averaged 10 assists like Payton, Stockton, Hardaway and KJ... So among 90's sidekicks, Pippen was the worst passer, scorer, clutch player, spacer/shooter and leader.. Pippen was mostly a dunker that learned to score 20 flow points or transition in a system (system player), otherwise he was worse than Jeff Green outside the system in 89' or 99'... He got a historic contract from Houston in 99' and he was finally healthy again with a dunk frequency that returned to 97' levels, but he was horrific outside the system - so the Rockets gave him away for nothing - the MARKET proved he was nothing.

I am with you that Pippen wasn't undeniably the best #2 in basketball, but he definitely has a case for it and he was still a GREAT player.

He was a guy who could run point but could also finish. Arguably the best or 2nd best athlete at the time in terms of wings with the other being Jordan himself. Together they were the most dangerous pair in transition the league had probably ever seen, surpassed only by Wade and Lebron if you ask me. Also a total nightmare on defense because of his quickness and his wingspan.

Pippen was a hell of a player to have as your #2 guy, and even as a #1 he led a team to a 55 win season and 2nd round playoff series. Not bad. Not like he had a great second option himself. Horace was #2 to Scottie, but he was #3 to Jordan.

So yea his name can be tossed around with a few other guys like you said, but let's not carried away. He's absolutely in the discussion.

[3ba11]

I am with you that Pippen wasn't undeniably the best #2 in basketball, but he definitely has a case for it and he was still a GREAT player.

He was a guy who could run point but could also finish. Arguably the best or 2nd best athlete at the time in terms of wings with the other being Jordan himself. Together they were the most dangerous pair in transition the league had probably ever seen, surpassed only by Wade and Lebron if you ask me. Also a total nightmare on defense because of his quickness and his wingspan.

Pippen was a hell of a player to have as your #2 guy, and even as a #1 he led a team to a 55 win season and 2nd round playoff series. Not bad. Not like he had a great second option himself. Horace was #2 to Scottie, but he was #3 to Jordan.

So yea his name can be tossed around with a few other guys like you said, but let's not carried away. He's absolutely in the discussion.


Pippen was a massive bricklayer that couldn't score - his playoff peak of around 20 system points is the lowest peak scoring capability of any 90:s sidekick.. Every other sidekick was a "1b" premium scorer and go-to player that could carry their team to the conference finals or Finals with dominant stats... KJ, Terry Porter, Payton, Stockton and Hardaway were dominant players that led their team to the conference finals or Finals... Only Pippen was a Jared Vanderbilt type with no scoring ability (system player) and never hit a big shot or dominated.

MJ averaged 10-30 more than Pippen in every series because Pippen had a low peak capability and couldn't score outside of transition.. He was a horrific halfcourt scorer, so MJ needed to average goat ppg and 41 to 3-peat

Pippen's low peak is why Shaq said he wasn't on scouting reports, which forced MJ to defeat max defensive attention (carry scoring load) in every series... Only Jordan had to do this because only Jordan lacked a go-to teammate.. Pippen was a 14 ppg player outside the system, so Kukoc was actually a better scorer than Pippen, and was actually 2nd in the bulls in 4th quarter scoring for the 98' Playoffs... So it took nothing to supplant Pippen as 2nd option, which makes him "just a dunker"/defender type of player (not a real 2nd option) - he was only a 2nd option alongside the goat scorer to carry him in every series.

[SouBeachTalents]

You keep citing Pippen's only viable run in 1991.

In 1992, he nearly caused massive upset loss by getting destroyed by X-Man in the 2nd Round - Pippen was the only Bull that underperformed, so MJ won in spite of a so-called all-time great wetting the bed - this was standard every year, except the 91' run.

In 1993, Pippen averaged 15 on 33% and was destroyed by Dominique in the 1st Round (30 on 44% for Dominique).. Then he shot 0% from three and 59% from the line in the Finals (46.9 TS) - this horrible efficiency clogged the lane and prevented him from carrying a bigger load, which forced MJ to average 41 ppg.

Then he was outplayed by Ewing in 94'... Then he averaged 17.6 on 41% for the 96-98' Playoffs, and 11 ppg in the 99-03' Playoffs (18 on 32% in 1999).

So Pippen was a complete joke .. just a dunker and system player.. a hustler and transition type that averaged 3.0 on 20% in 4th quarters - he simply couldn't score and was a Jared Vanderbilt type - only MJ made him more.

Btw, in addition to averaging 17 on 41% for the 2nd three-peat, Pippen had the worst shooting splits that anyone ever had in the 96' and 98' Playoffs (15 game min and 35 mpg).. So MJ won with the biggest lane-clogger ever.

Pippen also has many historic CHOKES, such as the migraine in 1990, or the sit-out game in 94', or the dumb foul on Hubert Davis (above), or losing 17 point lead to miss the Finals in 2000 WCF, or missing FT's right before Miller's push-off game-winner in 98' ECF, or game-losing turnover in 99' 1st Round, or missing wide open bunny to miss 70 wins in 1997!!! (most people don't know about that one).. carry on
Yeah, when you cherry pick only a players bad moments and ignore every good one that they had, you can make that player look pretty bad :lol

[3ba11]

Yeah, when you cherry pick only a players bad moments and ignore every good one that they had, you can make that player look pretty bad :lol


That's what you did - you cherry-picked Pippen's only viable run in 91', so my post showed that he choked in every other run.. He was a horrible player by all-time standards, which is why Jordan had to carry him in every series - 10-30 ppg more than Pippen in every series... No one else had to carry their sidekick like this

[SouBeachTalents]

That's what you did - you cherry-picked Pippen's only viable run in 91', so my post showed that he choked in every other run
I actually showed a track record of him nearly matching the opposing teams best player, and have said he outscored the opposing 2nd option in 18 of 24 series during their title years. So that's not cherry picking, that's a large sample size that shows Pippen was routinely the 3rd best player in the series, and would even challenge for 2nd on several occasions.

[Baller234]

3Ba11

I think I'm willing to meet you in the middle.

I think you make a pretty compelling case for other players being just as valuable if not more valuable than Pippen. At the end of the day I think you always have to give the edge to the "dogs" and Pippen was never that guy. He was a hustler but he wasn't a dog. KJ, Hardaway, Payton... those guys were dogs.

BUT... I think you're going overboard when it comes to trashing Pippen. Lol terrible halfcourt scorer? Come on now. TERRIBLE? You don't have to take it that far. Pippen was above average and a better athlete than 99% of the guys he played against.

[Im so nba'd out]

Tell us about pippen vs the knicks in 1993 OP. Why do you never bring up that series? :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

Tell us about pippen vs the knicks in 1993 OP. Why do you never bring up that series? :oldlol:
Yep, down 0-2 and on the brink of elimination, Pippen saves the Bulls season scoring 29 on a blistering 88%TS, while Jordan put up an absolutely pathetic 3/18 showing.

[3ba11]

Yep, down 0-2 and on the brink of elimination, Pippen saves the Bulls season scoring 29 on a blistering 88%TS, while Jordan put up an absolutely pathetic 3/18 showing.


^^^ This is the standard Klutch media lie that comes out when they've been defeated on every other point.. It comes right before the final excuse of "b-b-but the 90's were trash comp".

So here's a review of the facts... Game 3 was a give-away game that was over after the 1st quarter, where MJ had 8 points and 6 assists, compared to 6 points and no assists for Pippen... I encourage anyone to go back and watch the 1st quarter of Game 3 to see for themselves that MJ was thoroughly dominant in that 1st quarter, while Pippen was MIA... And the game was essentially over after that and everyone got to play.. That's why it was never reported as a "pippen save"... The only people that ever reported it that way are Klutch media and their fraud victims 30 years later... It's completely looney tunes and absurd to anyone that watched in the 90's to say that Pippen saved anything... MJ won more series with a bed-wetting sidekick than anyone in history.

Pippen averaged 16 on 40% against the Knicks in the 89', 92', and 96' Playoffs, so he went 1 for 4 against the Knicks (1 viable series in 4 tries).. He also went 1 for 4 against the Pistons by wetting the bed for 3 straight years from 88-90'.. MJ normally won with bed-wetting sidekicks, but I suppose facing a dynasty like the Celtics or Pistons is the cutoff.

[Overdrive]

^^^ This is the standard Klutch media lie that comes out when they've been defeated on every other point.. It comes right before the final excuse of "b-b-but the 90's were trash comp".

So here's a review of the facts... Game 3 was a give-away game that was over after the 1st quarter, where MJ had 8 points and 6 assists, compared to 6 points and no assists for Pippen... I encourage anyone to go back and watch the 1st quarter of Game 3 to see for themselves that MJ was thoroughly dominant in that 1st quarter, while Pippen was MIA... And the game was essentially over after that and everyone got to play.. That's why it was never reported as a "pippen save"... The only people that ever reported it that way are Klutch media and their fraud victims 30 years later... It's completely looney tunes and absurd to anyone that watched in the 90's to say that Pippen saved anything... MJ won more series with a bed-wetting sidekick than anyone in history.

Pippen averaged 16 on 40% against the Knicks in the 89', 92', and 96' Playoffs, so he went 1 for 4 against the Knicks (1 viable series in 4 tries).. He also went 1 for 4 against the Pistons by wetting the bed for 3 straight years from 88-90'.. MJ normally won with bed-wetting sidekicks, but I suppose facing a dynasty like the Celtics or Pistons is the cutoff.

No game ever in the shotclock era was over after the first quarter. No matter the score. Sure you're up 45-25 chances are you win, but if your guy goes 3/18 others most likely had to step up to keep the score.

[3ba11]

https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg


^^^^ historic bricklayer and lane-clogger

Here's Pippen telling Rachel Nichols that he lacks the shooting ability to space the floor for a big man offense and compares himself to Westbrick in that regard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmBbmIE_Kxc&t=114s


Here's Kenny Smith saying that MJ is the only guy in history that lacked a go-to teammate to command defensive attention:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/58K770Ld-kg





3Ba11

I think I'm willing to meet you in the middle.

I think you make a pretty compelling case for other players being just as valuable if not more valuable than Pippen. At the end of the day I think you always have to give the edge to the "dogs" and Pippen was never that guy. He was a hustler but he wasn't a dog. KJ, Hardaway, Payton... those guys were dogs.

BUT... I think you're going overboard when it comes to trashing Pippen. Lol terrible halfcourt scorer? Come on now. TERRIBLE? You don't have to take it that far. Pippen was above average and a better athlete than 99% of the guys he played against.


Pippen was a terrible scorer in the halfcourt - this is a fact - that's why he never hit a big shot and his true shooting was below league-average for every year of his playoff career... The only exceptions are 89' and 01-03' (no burden), and 1991... So the guy was a historic bricklayer with record-low efficiency in the 93', 96' and 98' Playoffs (see chart above).. And Pippen says it himself - he was talking to Rachel Nichols and compared himself to a bad "Westbrick" fit due to his lack of shooting ability - he literally said his to Rachel Nichols (shown above).

Btw, anyone that won more than 2 Finals needed a teammate to get FMVP or 25 ppg for at least 1 of the Finals, but Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg.

And people forget that Pippen was HURT in 1998, so his dunk frequency cratered, but he was healthy in 1999 and his dunk frequency returned to his 1997 levels - so he had plenty left in Houston but averaged 14 on 43% because he was outside the triangle and lacked scoring ability.. He could only get transition and flow points.. MJ is the only guy that lacked a go-to teammate for his entire career (see Kenny Smith quote above).

[3ba11]

No game ever in the shotclock era was over after the first quarter. No matter the score. Sure you're up 45-25 chances are you win, but if your guy goes 3/18 others most likely had to step up to keep the score.


It was over early in the 2nd quarter, which is why it was never reported as a pippen save... The only guys that ever reported that was iKlutch media and fans 30 years later.

Again, go watch Jordan dominate the 1st quarter of Game 3 here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90daXp-jHIg), and then go watch the intro to Game 4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tFF6032D_M) - "the supporting cast rallied around Jordan" - it was reported as a Jordan save because he came out an set the tone - the rest of the game was garbage time (pippen time).. This is the historical record... Pippen never saved anything... He never hit a big shot.. He never dominated and never took pressure off MJ - MJ was always forced to achieve goat stats and carry the statistical load in every series of their careers.

[3ba11]

I actually showed a track record of him nearly matching the opposing teams best player, and have said he outscored the opposing 2nd option in 18 of 24 series during their title years. So that's not cherry picking, that's a large sample size that shows Pippen was routinely the 3rd best player in the series, and would even challenge for 2nd on several occasions.


Pippen never matched Barkley, Malone, Shaq, Drexler - wtf are you talking about - stop lying.

Pippen was never expected to compete on their level and never did... There was never a promo that said "big forward matchup - Barkley vs Pippen"... that NEVER happened because that would be like saying "big matchup - "Klay vs SGA"... Or "Murray vs Giannis"... Absurd.

And Pippen was outscored by the opposing SF in more than half the series of his career... So your numbers show that he only outscored opposing guards that were underperforming against MJ like Dumars, Steve Smith, Hersey Hawkins, Starks, etc - that's what your numbers show... And we're talking about 20 flow points and transition in the triangle, which barely matched underperforming guards who commanded REAL defensive attention - they were tasked with iso'ing and taking big shots - they didn't get free system points alongside the goat scorer like Pippen did, smh.... They also had to share loads with 3rd and 4th scorers, which the Bulls never had...

So your numbers are based purely on zero defensive attention and triangle points, which anyone else would enjoy alongside Jordan as well... And their peak capability would be much higher than Pippen's 20 system points, so they would command actual defensive attention and take pressure off MJ... Pippen never took pressure off MJ by "taking over" or "dominating"... Those are foreign words for Pippen.. It's a testament to his horrific scoring ability that he had bad efficiency despite facing zero defensive attention and only scoring automatic system points... Again, Kukoc was 2nd on the Bulls in 4th quarter scoring for the 98' Playoffs, so it took nothing to supplant Pippen - Kukoc averaged 19 ppg outside the triangle in 1999, compared to 14 ppg for Pippen, so Kukoc was a far better scorer than Pippen and could actually shoot, iso, and make big shots.

[Baller234]

3Ba11

In that video you posted all Pippen is saying is that he wasn't a great 3pt shooter and didn't want to be relegated to a spot up guy. Lol it doesn't mean he couldn't score in the halfcourt.

Pip could beat you off the dribble, he could hit a mid range pull up, he could finish at the rim... come on. He was an above average scorer.

[tpols]

No game ever in the shotclock era was over after the first quarter. No matter the score. Sure you're up 45-25 chances are you win, but if your guy goes 3/18 others most likely had to step up to keep the score.

Eh... an 11 point lead after the Q1 and 19 point lead at half time is pretty much a wrap in the 90s. They didn't bomb 3s back then so it was much more rare to come back from that type of deficit. The game looked to be blowout from the start just like Larry Birds 8 point Finals game.

[ArbitraryWater]

Eh... an 11 point lead after the Q1 and 19 point lead at half time is pretty much a wrap in the 90s. They didn't bomb 3s back then so it was much more rare to come back from that type of deficit. The game looked to be blowout from the start just like Larry Birds 8 point Finals game.

An 11 pt lead after the 1st quarter was a wrap you say? :oldlol:

[StrongLurk]

My favorite one is Austin Reaves is better than Pippen. I was almost laughing while typing that.

It's really easy to troll OP.

[3ba11]

some misperceptions itt

[3ba11]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/DtKoPr.gif




3Ba11

Pip could beat you off the dribble, he could hit a mid range pull up, he could finish at the rim





See that's where you're buying into stuff that you heard on TV - but let's go through a basketball lesson, so that you understand EXACTLY how inept Pippen was.

First of all, Pippen lacked a breakdown handle - he couldn't break his man down off the dribble, and that's why he couldn't average elite assists like MJ, or other sidekicks in the 90's... If the Bulls needed elite assists, MJ was the only option.. Pippen had a stick figure handle, aka robotic, zero moves and no breakdown ability.. Again, this is why he only averaged 5 assists and never averaged elite assists in any season or series.

Secondly, he had zero jumpshot - think about this carefully - think back to Kobe or Tmac's patented pull-up off a live dribble from a stationary position (shown above with Kobe) - Pippen couldn't do that simple move... And furthermore, Pippen couldn't pull up off any sort of live dribble... I'm not saying he NEVER did it, because I'm sure you can find clips of Ewing shooting threes too - but Pippen almost never pulled up off a live dribble, because he basically couldn't do it.

Pippen's lack of pull-up ability and lack of breakdown handle is why he was never asked to iso and wasn't a "go-to" player... It's why Shaq said that Pippen wasn't on scouting reports - he didn't require double-teams and you didn't have to close out on him - you could just pack the paint... Btw, Pippen's lack of 3-point shooting further exacerbated an already barren repertoire.

the ONLY thing pippen could do was attack the rim - he could attack open space, if it was there... I'll give him that - he's a fantastic dunker... But that's where it ends - he wasn't elite at anything else offensively and was mostly below-average at most scoring skills, described above.. His below-average scoring ability is why he averaged 14 ppg outside the system in 89' or 99'... And again, he was HURT in 1998 but averaged 20 ppg in the triangle, and then he was healthy with his normal dunk frequency in 1999, but cratered outside the triangle... No easy flow points from the system for Pippen = 14 ppg on horrific efficiency.

[3ba11]

An 11 pt lead after the 1st quarter was a wrap you say? :oldlol:





EVERYONE knew the 2-time defending champion and historic team wouldn't go down 0-3 in front of their home crowd... Accordingly, the Knicks' plan was to come out and see if they could make it a game, and if the Bulls pulled away early, then pack it in and save energy for the rest of the series - it was common knowledge that this would be the Knicks' gameplan heading into Game 3, and that's exactly how it played out.. The game was over early in the 2nd quarter - again, go watch the first 15 minutes of the game and then YOU TELL ME what happened.. It happened exactly like I said, which is why it hasn't been reported as a Pippen save for 30 years until the fake debate started.

[Baller234]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/DtKoPr.gif






See that's where you're buying into stuff that you heard on TV - but let's go through a basketball lesson, so that you understand EXACTLY how inept Pippen was.

First of all, Pippen lacked a breakdown handle - he couldn't break his man down off the dribble, and that's why he couldn't average elite assists like MJ, or other sidekicks in the 90's... If the Bulls needed elite assists, MJ was the only option.. Pippen had a stick figure handle, aka robotic, zero moves and no breakdown ability.. Again, this is why he only averaged 5 assists and never averaged elite assists in any season or series.

Secondly, he had zero jumpshot - think about this carefully - think back to Kobe or Tmac's patented pull-up off a live dribble from a stationary position (shown above with Kobe) - Pippen couldn't do that simple move... And furthermore, Pippen couldn't pull up off any sort of live dribble... I'm not saying he NEVER did it, because I'm sure you can find clips of Ewing shooting threes too - but Pippen almost never pulled up off a live dribble, because he basically couldn't do it.

Pippen's lack of pull-up ability and lack of breakdown handle is why he was never asked to iso and wasn't a "go-to" player... It's why Shaq said that Pippen wasn't on scouting reports - he didn't require double-teams and you didn't have to close out on him - you could just pack the paint... Btw, Pippen's lack of 3-point shooting further exacerbated an already barren repertoire.

the ONLY thing pippen could do was attack the rim - he could attack open space, if it was there... I'll give him that - he's a fantastic dunker... But that's where it ends - he wasn't elite at anything else offensively and was mostly below-average at most scoring skills, described above.. His below-average scoring ability is why he averaged 14 ppg outside the system in 89' or 99'... And again, he was HURT in 1998 but averaged 20 ppg in the triangle, and then he was healthy with his normal dunk frequency in 1999, but cratered outside the triangle... No easy flow points from the system for Pippen = 14 ppg on horrific efficiency.

Sorry I was with you when it came to Pippen not being the undeniable best #2, but now you're just being crazy. Lol like who said he was comparable to Kobe or T-Mac? Pound for pound in terms of scoring in isolation those guys are all time elite.

Obviously Pip is not close to those guys but what you're saying is crazy talk. He couldn't shoot off the dribble? What? He's probably done that hundreds if not thousands of times. Definitely more frequent than a Patrick Ewing 3-pointer. :oldlol:

He was well above average in terms of being able to score unassisted. Not all time elite but above average. I know there's a small sample size of him on the Bulls without Jordan but that year he was 8th in scoring and he was the primary QB. You don't become the 8th highest scorer in the league without being able to score consistently in the halfcourt. :oldlol:

He was quick, he was long, he was insanely athletic, he could post up, he could face up, he could drive by you, he could finish, he could pull up, he could turnaround... sorry but I'm not seeing what you're seeing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd2GgvXt3SM

[3ba11]

Sorry I was with you when it came to Pippen not being the undeniable best #2, but now you're just being crazy. Lol like who said he was comparable to Kobe or T-Mac? Pound for pound in terms of scoring in isolation those guys are all time elite.

Obviously Pip is not close to those guys but what you're saying is crazy talk. He couldn't shoot off the dribble? What? He's probably done that hundreds if not thousands of times. Definitely more frequent than a Patrick Ewing 3-pointer. :oldlol:

He was well above average in terms of being able to score unassisted. Not all time elite but above average. I know there's a small sample size of him on the Bulls without Jordan but that year he was 8th in scoring and he was the primary QB. You don't become the 8th highest scorer in the league without being able to score consistently in the halfcourt. :oldlol:

He was quick, he was long, he was insanely athletic, he could post up, he could face up, he could drive by you, he could finish, he could pull up, he could turnaround... sorry but I'm not seeing what you're seeing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd2GgvXt3SM


Highlights mean literally nothing - Pippen missed far more shots than he made, so the lowlights reveal the story, not the highlights....

And just look at the highlights that you posted - they're all transition, flow points, and triangle points... At no point is he breaking his man down in the halfcourt, or hitting clutch pull-ups, or big shots.. It's all dunks and transition... Where are the clutch playoff takeovers?... They don't exist because Pippen averaged 3.0 on 20% in the 4th quarter of the 2nd Round vs Ewing, while Kukoc was chosen over him to take game-winners 4 times in the regular season and once more in the postseason.. Pippen was destroyed by Ewing despite having a nice tidy system to operate and stat-pad within.. He was simply a fish out of water in the playoffs as 1st option.

And I wasn't comparing Pippen to Kobe or Tmac... I brought up Kobe and Tmac so you could envision them doing their patented stationary pull-up, and then this would make you understand that Pippen couldn't do that move - he couldn't do a basic move that nearly every wing has... And Pippen's pull-up jumper was like Ewing's threes in the sense that Ewing wasn't good at threes just like Pippen was bad at pull-ups - he almost never did it because he was really bad at it.

Finally, 8th in scoring is a horrible peak and makes my point - this was with OPTIMAL CONDITIONS of a green light (no 2nd scorer) and 3-peat system.. If you're correct that Pippen was a good scorer, then you would think that he would explode when the goat scorer retires, but instead it was the same 20 ppg or so with weak efficiency and zero clutch - he was literally the 2nd option in the clutch behind Kukoc, so it took nothing to supplant Pippen as a scorer... Pippen was just getting free system points and was a 14 ppg dunker outside the system - he was worse than Jeff Green outside the triangle, while Kukoc hit all the big shots for him within the triangle.

[3ba11]

Sorry I was with you when it came to Pippen not being the undeniable best #2, but now you're just being crazy. Lol like who said he was comparable to Kobe or T-Mac? Pound for pound in terms of scoring in isolation those guys are all time elite.

Obviously Pip is not close to those guys but what you're saying is crazy talk. He couldn't shoot off the dribble? What? He's probably done that hundreds if not thousands of times. Definitely more frequent than a Patrick Ewing 3-pointer. :oldlol:

He was well above average in terms of being able to score unassisted. Not all time elite but above average. I know there's a small sample size of him on the Bulls without Jordan but that year he was 8th in scoring and he was the primary QB. You don't become the 8th highest scorer in the league without being able to score consistently in the halfcourt. :oldlol:

He was quick, he was long, he was insanely athletic, he could post up, he could face up, he could drive by you, he could finish, he could pull up, he could turnaround... sorry but I'm not seeing what you're seeing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd2GgvXt3SM


Highlights mean literally nothing - Pippen missed far more shots than he made, so the lowlights reveal the story, not the highlights.... Posting a highlight reel shows that you have no real substance to refute what I said.

And just look at the highlights that you posted - they're all transition, flow points, and triangle points... At no point is he breaking his man down in the halfcourt, or hitting clutch pull-ups, or big shots.. It's all dunks and transition... Where are the clutch playoff takeovers?... They don't exist because Pippen averaged 3.0 on 20% in the 4th quarter vs Ewing, while Kukoc was chosen over him to take game-winners 4 times in the regular season and once more in the postseason.. Pippen was destroyed by Ewing despite having a nice tidy system to operate and stat-pad within.. He was simply a fish out of water in the playoffs as 1st option.

And I wasn't comparing Pippen to Kobe or Tmac... I brought up Kobe and Tmac so you could envision them doing their patented stationary pull-up, and then this would make you understand that Pippen couldn't do that move - he couldn't do a basic move that nearly every wing has... And Pippen's pull-up jumper was like Ewing's threes in the sense that Ewing wasn't good at threes just like Pippen was bad at pull-ups - he almost never did it because he was really bad at it.

Finally, 8th in scoring means nothing because it's triangle points - he isn't iso'ing or commanding defensive attention like a true go-to player... And 8th is a horrible peak btw, which makes my point - this was with OPTIMAL CONDITIONS of a green light (no 2nd scorer) and 3-peat system - unprecedented conditions only gets Pippen a flukey peak of 8th, and it's triangle points - free points - not true go-to scoring... If you're correct that Pippen was a good scorer, then you would think that he would explode when the goat scorer retires, but instead it was the same 20 ppg or so with weak efficiency and zero clutch - he was literally the 2nd option in the clutch behind Kukoc, so it took nothing to supplant Pippen as a scorer... Pippen was just getting free system points and was a 14 ppg dunker outside the system - he was worse than Jeff Green outside the triangle, while Kukoc hit all the big shots for him within the triangle.

[AussieSteve]

Pure bs fantasy

Pippen only averaged 5 assists, while every other sidekick was an all-time floor general that averaged 10 assists like Payton, Stockton, Hardaway and KJ... So among 90's sidekicks, Pippen was the worst passer, scorer, clutch player, spacer/shooter and leader.. Pippen was mostly a dunker that learned to score 20 flow points or transition in a system (system player), otherwise he was worse than Jeff Green outside the system in 89' or 99'... He got a historic contract from Houston in 99' and he was finally healthy again with a dunk frequency that returned to 97' levels, but he was horrific outside the system - so the Rockets gave him away for nothing - the MARKET proved he was nothing.

Well, stop comparing him with #1 guys then.

If you're going to compare him with someone on the knicks, perhaps John Starks would be a better comparison, as the Knicks 2nd option.

Pippen was definitively better than John Starks, was he not?

[3ba11]

Well, stop comparing him with #1 guys then.

If you're going to compare him with someone on the knicks, perhaps John Starks would be a better comparison, as the Knicks 2nd option.

Pippen was definitively better than John Starks, was he not?


People forget that Stockton hit the historic series walk-off in Barkley's eye, while completely dominating and carrying the Jazz in the 97' WCF to make the Finals... Pippen is simply NOWHERE NEAR this level, and he's nowhere near Stockton because many people have Stockton as literally the GOAT PG, such as Payton and Baron Davis (here (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gts76duz3LU)).. This isn't an uncommon take.

Similarly, Gary Payton has more All-Defense and more All-NBA than Pippen - I don't believe in these awards, but you do, so I'm just using your logic... Regardless, Payton was a better scorer, passer, leader and defender - he was dimensions superior to Pippen, similar to Stockton... Payton was a go-to player... Both Payton and Stockton could dominate, which Pippen couldn't do and never did.

Tim Hardaway and KJ were also better scorers, passers and leaders than Pippen... Mark Price was a dominant player and easily better than Pippen... These guys didn't get free system points and faced real defensive attention as GO-TO players, while also having to share loads with 3rd and 4th scorers, which the Bulls didn't have...

Accordingly, among notable 90's sidekicks, Pippen was the worst passer, scorer, shooter, clutch player and leader.. Dumars was a better all-round player based on scoring, passing and defense - Dumars was FMVP with 27 ppg and 6 APG, while hitting every big shot available - he was a go-to player.

But there's plenty more... Drexler was sidekick to Hakeem and was obviously far superior to Pippen - Drexler got double-teamed all the time.... David Robinson was a better sidekick in 1998, and MJ went 2-0 against the Spurs that year (pippen missed one of those games)... It's also easy to forget that X-Man dominated Pippen in the 92' ECSF, and he also carried the Sonics to the 87' WCF with 25/9/4 against the Lakers.... X-Man entered the league at 23 years old in his prime, so his first 3 seasons are better than any of Pippen's - he was considered a franchise player... People just forget how good he was - you should youtube him.

Detlef Schrempf was more talented at 6'10" but the 90's didn't use stretch 4's and ballhandling bigs correctly.. But Schrempf was easily better than Pippen... Bigger, faster, stronger... And he could actually iso and score.

Larry Nance was VERY SIMILAR in athleticism (better actually) and he was better than Pippen because he was a go-to player and 1st option from Day 1 - he was considered a franchise player when he was in Phoenix... But he didn't play in a system or have a tenure alongside the GOAT..... Pippen was MAYBE a similar caliber to Michael Finley or Sean Elliot, except they didn't enjoy a long tenure alongside the GOAT in his prime, so they weren't inflated by the winning spotlight to media accolade and all-time status like Pippen was.

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs


Pippen couldn't shoot fadeaways... :confusedshrug:... That's how unskilled his jumper was.

And he could barely take pull-ups off a live-dribble.. It took all his coordination to put a pull-up jumpshot together, so he almost never pulled up, and again, he couldn't fadeaway AT ALL.

This horrific jumpshooting ability coupled with a lack of breakdown handle is why he was a 14 ppg scorer and needed free system points to barely scrape 20 ppg on bad efficiency.. This low peak scoring ability is why Pippen wasn't on scouting reports, as Shaq pointed out, while having the worst shooting splits ever in the 93', 96' and 98' Playoffs.. So MJ won 3 titles with the biggest bricklayer and lane-clogger in history..

Pippen as mostly a dunker and a Jared Vanderbilt player-type (defender) that MJ turned into a 20 ppg system player - this was less scoring help than Austin Reaves, but still enough for the GOAT to win 6 chips, 2 three-peats, and 70 wins + title... However, these goat achievements required goat stats and goat MVP-caliber - this includes 4 MVP's that included the championship, scoring titles and 1st team defense (unprecedented), or MVP/DPOY (unprecedented).. Jordan's MVP caliber was unprecedented and GOAT.

[plowking]

Guys Scottie was the best defender in the league from several accounts of players stating it.

He was top 5 in MVP voting twice. He was all NBA 1st team three times. All NBA 2nd team two times. He has 4 top 4 DPOY finishes and two top 2 finishes.

There is no amount of revisionist history that will take away from how great he was. He was a 22/9/6 guy on his own with the best perimeter defense in the league. If he had more time to flesh out the role for himself, 25/7/7 at his peak.

As the main guy he was averaging near identitcal offensive rebound numbers per 36 as Ewing and Olajuwon. Leading the league in steals. Top 3 MVP. Top 4 DPOY. All NBA first team and All defense first team. That season accomplishment wise is on par with Wade, AD - and better than the likes of Lillard, Kyrie, Booker, Trae, Donovan Mitchell, Jamal Murray have ever put up as a reference.

[3ba11]

.
.
Here's what Pippen did right BEFORE the dumb foul on Hubert Davis - he passes up a huge clearout and gives it to BJ for a rushed shot:



https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-27-2021/_p33FZ.gif




Phil was pissed at Pippen after that - he already knew that Pippen couldn't be trusted when it mattered and that he should've gone with Kukoc again:



https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-27-2021/8uUPI_.gif




Here's Pippen right before the Kukoc game-winner - this inept iso ability and horrific shooting touch is why Phil went with Kukoc on the next play (which Pippen famously sat out)...

a fadeaway is optimal here, but Pippen lacks the skill and isn't capable of fading away!!!:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-17-2025/35tXga.gif



^^^ Again, a fadeaway is optimal here, but Pippen isn't capable of fading away..

This was the standard iso ability from Pippen in tight playoff spots, and that's why he averaged 3.0 on 20% in the 4th quarter of the 94' 2nd Round.. It's also why Phil chose Kukoc to make 4 game-winners in the regular season and another big one in the playoffs... The fact that an ordinary player like Kukoc was a better scorer than Pippen speaks volumes... Kukoc averaged 19 ppg outside the system in 1999, while Pippen cratered to 14 ppg despite being healthy again and having a dunk frequency that returned to 97' levels.

[3ba11]

He was top 5 in MVP voting twice. He was all NBA 1st team three times. All NBA 2nd team two times. He has 4 top 4 DPOY finishes and two top 2 finishes.





^^^ Media accolade is the opinion of a few dozen journalism majors with group-think, so it means nothing more than the opinion of beer-drinkers at happy hour... Otoh, the factor that makes a player great are actual examples of dominant performance - pippen lacks dominant performance and is simply inflated by the winning spotlight.

All-NBA is normally reserved for elite producers and franchise players, but history shows that the media is influenced by the winning spotlight, so they give All-NBA honors to secondary producers AFTER they win titles - this includes Klay, Pippen, Dumars, Manu, Parker, Pau, Worthy, and others.

By virtue of 2 three-peats and playing alongside the GOAT, pippen enjoyed this winning spotlight inflation more than anyone else.. But the stats and performance tells the true story - Pippen, Klay, Pau and others never played above a Larry Nance caliber, but the winning spotlight inflated them to all-time status and media accolade.

[StrongLurk]

OP is the biggest loser I've even seen on the internet. Dude is supposedly almost 50 years old still slurping MJ any second he can.

What kind of mental illness is this? Just an extreme form of parasocial behavior?

[3ba11]

OP is the biggest loser I've even seen on the internet. Dude is supposedly almost 50 years old still slurping MJ any second he can.

What kind of mental illness is this? Just an extreme form of parasocial behavior?


Translation: I'm grumpy after being taught that Pippen was possibly as good as Larry Nance, but inflated by the winning spotlight to all-time status and media accolade.

[StrongLurk]

Translation: I'm grumpy after being taught that Pippen was possibly as good as Larry Nance but inflated by the winning spotlight to all-time status and media accolade.

The fact that your are trying to "translate" my very direct, factual post just supports my direct, factual post.

You just slurped MJ again with your dumbass response.

Have you ever asked yourself why you have almost 1 MILLION basketball posts centering around MJ over the last 15 years across a dozen NBA forums? Never stopped to think, huh, this is actually weird.

It's one thing if you are a basketball guy who loves to talk basketball, but your entire focus and energy is only on a VERY specific topic.

[3ba11]

The fact that your are trying to "translate" my very direct, factual post just supports my direct, factual post.

You just slurped MJ again with your dumbass response.

Have you ever asked yourself why you have almost 1 MILLION basketball posts centering around MJ over the last 15 years across a dozen NBA forums? Never stopped to think, huh, this is actually weird.

It's one thing if you are a basketball guy who loves to talk basketball, but your entire focus and energy is only on a VERY specific topic.


There's a lot of fake news out there regarding Jordan and Lebron that new fans have slurped up, so myself and others have taken it upon ourselves to correct the record and inform people of the facts.. I think it's quite noble what we're doing and you should be thankful that your misperceptions are being corrected.. Ignorance actually isn't bliss, so again, a thank you is in order but I won't hold my breath.

[3ba11]

Guys Scottie was the best defender in the league from several accounts of players stating it.

He was top 5 in MVP voting twice. He was all NBA 1st team three times. All NBA 2nd team two times. He has 4 top 4 DPOY finishes and two top 2 finishes.

There is no amount of revisionist history that will take away from how great he was. He was a 22/9/6 guy on his own with the best perimeter defense in the league. If he had more time to flesh out the role for himself, 25/7/7 at his peak.

As the main guy he was averaging near identitcal offensive rebound numbers per 36 as Ewing and Olajuwon. Leading the league in steals. Top 3 MVP. Top 4 DPOY. All NBA first team and All defense first team. That season accomplishment wise is on par with Wade, AD - and better than the likes of Lillard, Kyrie, Booker, Trae, Donovan Mitchell, Jamal Murray have ever put up as a reference.



Pippen couldn't create his own shot... And he averaged the exact same 22 ppg in 95' without MJ, which would be lower with a 2nd and 3rd scorer like every other team had

22 system points and 14 outside the system s a horrific peak capability and isn't All-NBA caliber, especially if it was losing on the Wizards instead of getting carried to 6 titles... Pippen was simply inflated by the winning spotlight to All-NBA.. The low peak is why Shaq said he wasn't a concern or on scouting reports - he simply learned to get system points but otherwise was a 14 ppg dunker outside the system... He was a historic bricklayer that couldn't hit the broadside of the barn and Kukoc was preferred in the 4th quarter.. He never hit a big shot or dominated - he was just a dunker/defender that learned a system.

Pippen's lack of dominance and low production capability is why he wasn't as franchise player that was tasked with building a team from scratch and through the development stages - he was simply handed a fully-developed goat dynasty, which he cratered to barely.500 in less than 18 months.

[StrongLurk]

There's a lot of fake news out there regarding Jordan and Lebron that new fans have slurped up, so myself and others have taken it upon ourselves to correct the record and inform people of the facts.. I think it's quite noble what we're doing and you should be thankful that your misperceptions are being corrected.. Ignorance actually isn't bliss, so again, a thank you is in order but I won't hold my breath.

This post is just so sad. You seem incapable of seeing how insane your behavior is...I guess that is the essence of mental illness.

[3ba11]

This post is just so sad. You seem incapable of seeing how insane your behavior is...I guess that is the essence of mental illness.


Your behavior is immature and childlike.. Pretending and projecting just because you can't counter the points being made... Carry on.

[StrongLurk]

Your behavior is immature and childlike.. Pretending and projecting just because you can't counter the points being made... Carry on.

I don't need to read your posts to know the subject matter. I am addressing your insane BEHAVIOR and you are doing everything to deflect.

Again dawg, you are 50 years old with a million posts about MJ, Pippen, and Lebron. A psychologist would love to discuss your extreme parasocial behavior.

How about you stop deflecting/projecting and actually address MY POINTS about your behavior that I have brought up. Too scared to do some introspection?

[3ba11]

I don't need to read your posts to know the subject matter. I am addressing your insane BEHAVIOR and you are doing everything to deflect.

Again dawg, you are 50 years old with a million posts about MJ, Pippen, and Lebron. A psychologist would love to discuss your extreme parasocial behavior.

How about you stop deflecting/projecting and actually address MY POINTS about your behavior that I have brought up. Too scared to do some introspection?


Again , stop pretending... I consume the NBA by posting, which is far less time consuming than your way of watching 3 hour games and all the coverage... So my way is a lot more sane, smart and efficient, while your way makes you a couch potato and weak as the the cable washes over you .. A pathetic existence, and then you come on here and regurgitate what you heard on TV.. It's an unintelligent existence where you let journalists tell you how the world works.. Quite pathetic, and no thank you.. I much prefer my way where I inform you how the game works and watch you whine about how that's different from what you heard on TV.. Then I gloat when the results back me up (like SGA losing tomorrow, aka ball-domination is inferior basketball)

[StrongLurk]

Again , stop pretending... I consume the NBA by posting, which is far less time consuming than your way of watching 3 hour games and all the coverage... So my way is a lot more sane, smart and efficient, while your way makes you a couch potato and weak as the the cable washes over you .. A pathetic existence, and then you come on here and regurgitate what you heard on TV.. It's an unintelligent existence where you let journalists tell you how the world works.. Quite pathetic, and no thank you.. I much prefer my way where I inform you how the game works and watch you whine about how that's different from what you heard on TV.. Then I gloat when the results back me up (like SGA losing tomorrow, aka ball-domination is inferior basketball)

I rarely ever watch NBA games, and I never watch NBA talking heads, so you are projecting again here with your mentally deranged posting. You literally just made up a bunch of stuff about me in your post because you are mentally ill and arguing with the voices in your head. I can tell my comments made you really mad because you know deep down I'm 100% correct about your deranged behavior. You are 50 years old bro, give it up.

[ShawkFactory]

Again , stop pretending... I consume the NBA by posting, which is far less time consuming than your way of watching 3 hour games and all the coverage... So my way is a lot more sane, smart and efficient, while your way makes you a couch potato and weak as the the cable washes over you .. A pathetic existence, and then you come on here and regurgitate what you heard on TV.. It's an unintelligent existence where you let journalists tell you how the world works.. Quite pathetic, and no thank you.. I much prefer my way where I inform you how the game works and watch you whine about how that's different from what you heard on TV.. Then I gloat when the results back me up (like SGA losing tomorrow, aka ball-domination is inferior basketball)

How much you got on this one? OKC is -9 so good money line action for you if it's a sure thing Denver wins.

[3ba11]

How much you got on this one? OKC is -9 so good money line action for you if it's a sure thing Denver wins.


I don't bet on sports, but OKC should be favored due to having home court in Game 7... So I'm not actually that optimistic about Denver... But I do believe that SGA will lose at some point in these playoffs due to the history of ball-dominators (they can't win with "normal" rosters, aka 1 franchise player), so Ant or an Eastern team could him if Jokic fails to... But hopefully Jokic will get it done because he's in my top 10 and this would justify it.

[97 bulls]

Pippen couldn't create his own shot... And he averaged the exact same 22 ppg in 95' without MJ, which would be lower with a 2nd and 3rd scorer like every other team had

22 system points and 14 outside the system s a horrific peak capability and isn't All-NBA caliber, especially if it was losing on the Wizards instead of getting carried to 6 titles... Pippen was simply inflated by the winning spotlight to All-NBA.. The low peak is why Shaq said he wasn't a concern or on scouting reports - he simply learned to get system points but otherwise was a 14 ppg dunker outside the system... He was a historic bricklayer that couldn't hit the broadside of the barn and Kukoc was preferred in the 4th quarter.. He never hit a big shot or dominated - he was just a dunker/defender that learned a system.

Pippen's lack of dominance and low production capability is why he wasn't as franchise player that was tasked with building a team from scratch and through the development stages - he was simply handed a fully-developed goat dynasty, which he cratered to barely.500 in less than 18 months.

Pippen led the 95 Bulls in rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. He was also the teams best defender and ran the offense. No other player in the history of the NBA has been asked to do all that. Pippen could've scored more, but he had expend energy doing alot of everything along with scoring. The fact that he was able to keep that team above .500 was impressive. And still score 20ppg

[3ba11]

Pippen could've scored more





you're making stuff up and lying about obvious things... it's statistical fact and common knowledge that he couldn't score more.

the 94' bulls were the only team in the league that lacked a 2nd scorer, yet Pippen STILL only averaged 22 ppg... then he did it again in 1995... he simply couldn't score well in the halfcourt, or outside of automatic system buckets - it's because he can't fade away, and he can't break guys down on the dribble, while also having a broke jumpshot... These are all statistical and common knowledge facts.. And of course, Pippen was a disaster in the playoffs.

[97 bulls]

94 was no different than 95. Pippen was exerting so much effort in so many ways that it's hard to score in the way that you're expecting. But still, he was top 10 in scoring in a league with 450 players. 8th to be exact. And as I keep saying, most of those players that scored more than him, weren't expected to do all the stuff Pippen did on the court.

[3ba11]

94 was no different than 95. Pippen was exerting so much effort in so many ways that it's hard to score in the way that you're expecting. But still, he was top 10 in scoring in a league with 450 players. 8th to be exact. And as I keep saying, most of those players that scored more than him, weren't expected to do all the stuff Pippen did on the court.


Pippen's peak was about 20 system points and defense isn't an excuse for Hakeem, Robinson, AD, or other franchise players who average 25-35 ppg with great defense.. The fact that you use defense to excuse his offense makes my point exactly.. That's actually what a bad rec player says: "I'm not that good on offense but I make up for it on defense".. Translation: the kid sucks

[3ba11]

3Ba11

In that video you posted all Pippen is saying is that he wasn't a great 3pt shooter and didn't want to be relegated to a spot up guy.






Drexler thrived alongside Hakeem and played better than Pippen ever did, while Horry did too:



FINALS

95' Horry...... 19.0 gamescore... 18/10/4/3/2 on 57 TS

92' Pippen.... 18.1 gamescore.... 21/8/7/2/1 on 56 TS
91' Pippen.... 17.5 gamescore.... 21/9/7/2/1 on 53 TS
93' Pippen.... 15.6 gamescore.... 20/9/8/2/1 on 46 TS
97' Pippen.... 15.1 gamescore.... 20/8/3/2/2 on 54 TS
96' Pippen.... 13.4 gamescore.... 16/7/5/2/1 on 43 TS
98' Pippen.... 13.0 gamescore.... 16/8/5/2/1 on 50 TS



So there's no excuse for Pippen - he simply couldn't shoot like Horry, or have real scoring ability like Drexler... :confusedshrug:

[red1]

mental illness

[3ba11]

misperceptions itt

[3ba11]

.
Outside the system in 1999



KUKOC....... 19/7/5 on 42%
PIPPEN....... 14/6/6 on 43%


Pippen couldn't average 15 ppg outside the system because he was a dunker/defender type.





I actually showed a track record of him nearly matching the opposing teams best player, and have said he outscored the opposing 2nd option in 18 of 24 series during their title years. So that's not cherry picking, that's a large sample size that shows Pippen was routinely the 3rd best player in the series, and would even challenge for 2nd on several occasions.


System points don't count.... You're referencing automatic system points, which is zero in the 4th quarter or clutch when Pippen was always destroyed by the 6th and 7th options on other teams...

In addition to nothing in the 4th, Pippen's system points barely matched guards that were underperforming against MJ and who commanded REAL defensive attention - they were tasked with iso'ing and taking big shots - they didn't get free system points alongside the goat scorer like Pippen did, smh.... They also had to share loads with 3rd and 4th scorers, which the Bulls never had...

So your numbers are based purely on zero defensive attention and triangle points, which anyone else would enjoy alongside Jordan as well... And their peak capability would be much higher than Pippen's 20 system points, so they would command actual defensive attention and take pressure off MJ, especially in the 4th..

And again, Kukoc was 2nd on the Bulls in 4th quarter scoring for the 98' Playoffs, so it took nothing to supplant Pippen - Kukoc was a far better scorer than Pippen and could actually shoot, iso, and make big shots.

[SouBeachTalents]

mental illness
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/44/d9/0d/44d90d73ee504d8078e8d657404a7c8f.gif

He wouldn't even harm a fly.

[StrongLurk]

misperceptions itt

MJ clearly reduced Kukoc on the Bulls, evidenced by Kukoc averaging much more ppg once he stopped playing with MJ.

[3ba11]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/44/d9/0d/44d90d73ee504d8078e8d657404a7c8f.gif

He wouldn't even harm a fly.


Rent free lol

[3ba11]

MJ clearly reduced Kukoc on the Bulls, evidenced by Kukoc averaging much more ppg once he stopped playing with MJ.


bench to starter situations don't count.

[StrongLurk]

bench to starter situations don't count.

Yeah MJ's chucking reduced Kukoc to the bench :roll:

[3ba11]

Yeah MJ's chucking reduced Kukoc to the bench :roll:


Actually, it was Pippen's chucking in 94' that put Kukoc on the bench...

MJ actually elevated him to starter again in the 98' Playoffs and made him the secondary "closer" over over Pippen - Kukoc was 2nd on the Bulls in 4th quarter scoring for the 98' Playoffs - he was actually Jordan's true sidekick and Phil's 2nd most trusted player.

Any decent scorer would supplant Pippen as 1st option, so building around Pippen would restrict a team's capacity to add talent.. This is why secondary producers like Pippen, Klay, or Middleton aren't franchise players.

[StrongLurk]

Actually, it was Pippen's chucking in 94' that put Kukoc on the bench...

MJ actually elevated him to starter again in the 98' Playoffs and made him the secondary "closer" over over Pippen - Kukoc was 2nd on the Bulls in 4th quarter scoring for the 98' Playoffs - he was actually Jordan's true sidekick and Phil's 2nd most trusted player.

Any decent scorer would supplant Pippen as 1st option, so building around Pippen would restrict a team's capacity to add talent.. This is why secondary producers like Pippen, Klay, or Middleton aren't franchise players.

Sorry buddy, MJ reduced Kuk. Facts are facts.

[3ba11]

Sorry buddy, MJ reduced Kuk. Facts are facts.


False... MJ won the championship with him at starting PF, while Pippen was destroyed by Ewing in the 2nd Round... Then MJ three-peated again with nothing this time, since Pippen averaged 17 on 41% in the 96-98' Playoffs. This included the worst efficiency ever in 96' and 98', so MJ won with the biggest bricklayer/lane-clogger of all-time.. aka imagine Lebron winning a Finals where Luka makes zero threes - now imagine that this was to 3-peat

[StrongLurk]

False... MJ won the championship with him at starting PF, while Pippen was destroyed by Ewing in the 2nd Round... Then MJ three-peated again with nothing this time, since Pippen averaged 17 on 41% in the 96-98' Playoffs. This included the worst efficiency ever in 96' and 98', so MJ won with the biggest bricklayer/lane-clogger of all-time.. aka imagine Lebron winning a Finals where Luka makes zero threes - now imagine that this was to 3-peat

Kukoc factually averaged more ppg on other teams outside of the Bulls. So by the ppg logic you always use, MJ reduced Kukoc from he peak capacity.

[ShawkFactory]

I don't bet on sports, but OKC should be favored due to having home court in Game 7... So I'm not actually that optimistic about Denver... But I do believe that SGA will lose at some point in these playoffs due to the history of ball-dominators (they can't win with "normal" rosters, aka 1 franchise player), so Ant or an Eastern team could him if Jokic fails to... But hopefully Jokic will get it done because he's in my top 10 and this would justify it.

Must have been that Shai ball-dominance, eh?