Who should've won 2005 MVP? Shaq? Duncan?

[StrongLurk]

Let's be real, Nash was a very good player and helped lead an amazing turnaround for the Suns in 05, but his 2005 MVP is extremely weak.

Granted, the whole 2005 MVP race was weak that year.

Frankly I think Shaq should have won MVP over Nash. Shaq also joined a new team and lead them to the 1 seed out East. Duncan could have won too, although he only played 66 games in 2005.

2005 Nash: 62-20 (1 seed), 75 games played, 22 PER, 60.6 TS%, .203 WS/48, 4.7 BPM, BAD DEFENSE.

2005 Shaq: 59-23 (1 seed), 73 games played, 27 PER, 58.3 TS%, .211 WS/48, 5.3 BPM, ELITE DEFENSE

2005 Duncan: 59-23 (2 seed), 66 games played, 27 PER, 54 TS%, .245 WS/48, 7.6 BPM, ELITE DEFENSE

Nash was better in 2006 and 2007, which makes his 2005 MVP look even worse.

[Nowoco]

Nonsense. Nash was fully deserving of the MVP. He was the best player on the best team who everyone wanted to watch. "He makes everyone better" is one of the most erroneously overused phrases in the NBA but Nash made a lot of players look like all-stars in that system.

Shaq's 2004-05 season is so overrated. Especially by himself.

[StrongLurk]

Nonsense. Nash was fully deserving of the MVP. He was the best player on the best team who everyone wanted to watch. "He makes everyone better" is one of the most erroneously overused phrases in the NBA but Nash made a lot of players look like all-stars in that system.

Shaq's 2004-05 season is so overrated. Especially by himself.

Well Shaq and Duncan were actually better players. And their records were just marginally worse, plus Shaq had the same narrative that Nash had.

Shaq easily could've won, and freaking Duncan was probably the best player in the league and ended up winning a ring/FMVP that year.

It's ridiculous to claim Nash was "fully deserving".

[SouBeachTalents]

None of them, Dirk. He won a comparable amount of games with imo the worst roster of the bunch.

[StrongLurk]

None of them, Dirk. He won a comparable amount of games with imo the worst roster of the bunch.

Dirk had a good argument too. Literally any of Shaq, Duncan, and Dirk could've been voted over Nash.

Dirk's problem is mostly narrative (Nash JUST left the Mavs, also the Mavs ended up the 4th seed to due seeding rules even though the Mavs won 58 games).

[Lakers Legend#32]

Shaq

[Nowoco]

It's ridiculous to claim Nash was "fully deserving".

He was. I will say this though, as we know with MVPs, other factors do take precedent. Narratives etc. Well every once in a while, everyone likes to see a ball dominant little guy win the MVP. Call it position fatigue.

After AI we had 3 years of elite defensive big men winning MVP, Duncan x2 and KG. Nash was a breath of fresh air to the voters. Much like D-Rose was in 2011 and Steph in 2015. They always come around.

Watch LaMelo win MVP next year.

[ArbitraryWater]

None of them, Dirk. He won a comparable amount of games with imo the worst roster of the bunch.

2006 was the bigger miss. I dont understand that one. I guess Nash again had the narrative cause they were without Stoudemire?

Or did it have to do with the strange seeding formula at the time, changed after that post-season?

Because the Mavs were the actual 2nd seed, won 60 games, 6 more than the Suns.

Dirk was a better player (maybe not yet recognized?) having a better season than Nash, with more wins.

Its odd.

[FKAri]

In retrospect, the system deserved a lot of credit. People say stuff like, "Oh Nash was just good in that system or the system made him look good". No, the system itself was really good and Nash was a great pilot of that system. But there's no System of the Year award. Therefore Nash deserved the MVP. The value he provided was real.

[tpols]

Nah... Nash deserved it. And then he topped it off by playing great in the playoffs. Somebody has to lose.

I never realized he had a 30/12/7 series before. And he did that on Dirks Mavs.

[StrongLurk]

Nah... Nash deserved it. And then he topped it off by playing great in the playoffs. Somebody has to lose.

I never realized he had a 30/12/7 series before. And he did that on Dirks Mavs.

Duncan was better than Nash in the regular season and playoffs.

Duncan and Shaq just had a ton of voter fatigue by 2005. Nash was newer and easier to come up with a narrative.

[Meticode]

I felt Shaq deserved it over everyone that year. Just like this season (although for different reasons), I think Jokic deserves it over SGA.

[post]

https://i.ibb.co/Hf8j8G9B/MV5-BYzg1-Zm-Y5-ODgt-Ym-Rl-OC00-MWZi-LThh-Zjgt-Nj-M3-Yj-Zl-NTdj-MWU2-Xk-Ey-Xk-Fqc-Gc-V1.jpg

[ShawkFactory]

Duncan was the best player in the league but missed like 20 games and clearly didn’t value the regular season the same way as before.

[3ba11]

In retrospect, the system deserved a lot of credit. People say stuff like, "Oh Nash was just good in that system or the system made him look good". No, the system itself was really good and Nash was a great pilot of that system. But there's no System of the Year award. Therefore Nash deserved the MVP. The value he provided was real.


Every good PG does what Nash did, so why does Nash get special credit?... The more rare player from a domination and statistical standpoint is Amare - I'm not saying Amare deserved MVP, but neither did Nash, who was more replicable than Amare

Dirk fulfilled all the requirements for MVP, or Shaq, or Duncan except he missed games.. Duncan was easily the best player, but MVP obviously is not a player ranking

[StrongLurk]

Duncan was the best player in the league but missed like 20 games and clearly didn’t value the regular season the same way as before.

2005 Nash: 62-20 (1 seed), 75 games played, 22 PER, 60.6 TS%, .203 WS/48, 4.7 BPM, BAD DEFENSE.

2005 Shaq: 59-23 (1 seed), 73 games played, 27 PER, 58.3 TS%, .211 WS/48, 5.3 BPM, ELITE DEFENSE

2005 Duncan: 59-23 (2 seed), 66 games played, 27 PER, 54 TS%, .245 WS/48, 7.6 BPM, ELITE DEFENSE

2005 Dirk: 58-24 (4 seed), 78 games played, 26.1 PER, 57.8 TS%, .248 WS/48, 7.3 BPM, Mid-defense.

Duncan missed 16 games and still had a higher WS/48. I understand missing 16 total games is kind of a lot, but Shaq and Nash missed some time too.

Frankly Nash was not as good of a player as Dirk, Duncan, and Shaq in 05 in my opinion. I think they all 3 have better MVP arguments too.

It's a similar situation to Derek Rose in 2011. You could argue D.Rose was not even a top 5 player in 2011 (Lebron, Dirk, Dwight, Durant, and Wade were better in my opinion).

[ShawkFactory]

2005 Nash: 62-20 (1 seed), 75 games played, 22 PER, 60.6 TS%, .203 WS/48, 4.7 BPM, BAD DEFENSE.

2005 Shaq: 59-23 (1 seed), 73 games played, 27 PER, 58.3 TS%, .211 WS/48, 5.3 BPM, ELITE DEFENSE

2005 Duncan: 59-23 (2 seed), 66 games played, 27 PER, 54 TS%, .245 WS/48, 7.6 BPM, ELITE DEFENSE

2005 Dirk: 58-24 (4 seed), 78 games played, 26.1 PER, 57.8 TS%, .248 WS/48, 7.3 BPM, Mid-defense.

Duncan missed 16 games and still had a higher WS/48. I understand missing 16 total games is kind of a lot, but Shaq and Nash missed some time too.

Frankly Nash was not as good of a player as Dirk, Duncan, and Shaq in 05 in my opinion. I think they all 3 have better MVP arguments too.

It's a similar situation to Derek Rose in 2011. You could argue D.Rose was not even a top 5 player in 2011 (Lebron, Dirk, Dwight, Durant, and Wade were better in my opinion).

Ws/48 isn’t based on the amount of games or minutes you play.

[04mzwach]

Nash had more to do with his team winning games than the others. AST/TO ratio always elite. Nobody could have run that offense better than Nash. You can say what you want about Nash's defense, but if your team is still playing better offensively you win the game.

[Nowoco]

A better way to phrase it would be if a player like Nash after a season like that with that record in that system, doesnt win MVP then when DO you give him MVP?

[tpols]

2005 Nash: 62-20 (1 seed), 75 games played, 22 PER, 60.6 TS%, .203 WS/48, 4.7 BPM, BAD DEFENSE.

2005 Shaq: 59-23 (1 seed), 73 games played, 27 PER, 58.3 TS%, .211 WS/48, 5.3 BPM, ELITE DEFENSE

2005 Duncan: 59-23 (2 seed), 66 games played, 27 PER, 54 TS%, .245 WS/48, 7.6 BPM, ELITE DEFENSE

2005 Dirk: 58-24 (4 seed), 78 games played, 26.1 PER, 57.8 TS%, .248 WS/48, 7.3 BPM, Mid-defense.

Duncan missed 16 games and still had a higher WS/48. I understand missing 16 total games is kind of a lot, but Shaq and Nash missed some time too.

Frankly Nash was not as good of a player as Dirk, Duncan, and Shaq in 05 in my opinion. I think they all 3 have better MVP arguments too.

It's a similar situation to Derek Rose in 2011. You could argue D.Rose was not even a top 5 player in 2011 (Lebron, Dirk, Dwight, Durant, and Wade were better in my opinion).

The difference between Rose and Nash in their MVP years is Rose game fell of a cliff in the playoffs while Nash balled out and played even better than the RS.

Nash eliminated Dirk that year putting up 30/12/7 on sniper 55/41/96 splits. Doesn't get much better than that.

The Suns ended up losing to Duncan Manu Parker Spurs but they lost Joe Johnson and something happened to Shawn Marion. Dude went from 23 ppg in the series vs Dallas to 7 ppg in the series vs the Spurs. I wonder what happened there because I don't remember but thats an incredible drop off.

[MrFonzworth]

LeBron.

[Nowoco]

something happened to Shawn Marion. Dude went from 23 ppg in the series vs Dallas to 7 ppg in the series vs the Spurs. I wonder what happened there because I don't remember but thats an incredible drop off.

Bruce Bowen happened.

https://i.postimg.cc/D07vMBPT/gettyimages-81448903-2048x2048.jpg

[Baller234]

The Suns were the perfect marriage of coach and player.

You can't give one guy COY but not give the other guy MVP.

Without Nash it doesn't work. He's the other half of the equation.

[Akhenaten]

Shaq wasn't the best player on the 05 Heat

[rmt]

The difference between Rose and Nash in their MVP years is Rose game fell of a cliff in the playoffs while Nash balled out and played even better than the RS.

Nash eliminated Dirk that year putting up 30/12/7 on sniper 55/41/96 splits. Doesn't get much better than that.

The Suns ended up losing to Duncan Manu Parker Spurs but they lost Joe Johnson and something happened to Shawn Marion. Dude went from 23 ppg in the series vs Dallas to 7 ppg in the series vs the Spurs. I wonder what happened there because I don't remember but thats an incredible drop off.

Spurs strategy vs Suns - transition defense, shut down 3 point shooters (this limited Nash's effectiveness) and dare Amare/Nash to score enough.

Duncan sprained ankle in March? and missed bunch of games - not enough for MVP.

[rmt]

The difference between Rose and Nash in their MVP years is Rose game fell of a cliff in the playoffs while Nash balled out and played even better than the RS.

Nash eliminated Dirk that year putting up 30/12/7 on sniper 55/41/96 splits. Doesn't get much better than that.

The Suns ended up losing to Duncan Manu Parker Spurs but they lost Joe Johnson and something happened to Shawn Marion. Dude went from 23 ppg in the series vs Dallas to 7 ppg in the series vs the Spurs. I wonder what happened there because I don't remember but thats an incredible drop off.

Spurs strategy vs Suns - transition defense, shut down 3 point shooters (this limited Nash's effectiveness) and dare Amare/Nash to score enough.

Duncan sprained ankle in March? and missed bunch of games - not enough for MVP.