Peak GSW or Spurs would be dynasty today & better than OKC or today's ball-dominance

[3ba11]

All dynasties used ball movement systems that required ELITE off-ball players, which means that SGA, Ant and today's ball-dominators aren't capable of producing dynasties... And they produce weaker teams in general than the superior ball movement brands of prior eras

This is how we know that teams from prior eras would demolish today's brand of ball, which already struggles mightily and underperforms against international comp - so this is the actual proof that today's era would get destroyed by prior eras, since they already barely beat the tougher international formats.

[ShawkFactory]

Ahhhhhhhh so I see we might have accepted that SGA is gonna ring? :lol

[3ba11]

Ahhhhhhhh so I see we might have accepted that SGA is gonna ring? :lol


It's a league of ball-dominators, so one of them will win

But they wouldn't win in prior eras - that's the point.

Previous eras would annihilate this era, and the previous eras include the ball movement of the Warriors, Spurs or Bulls... So SGA and today's players would win nothing in prior eras because previous eras played the best brand (ball movement) and today's era doesn't

[ShawkFactory]

Holy shit :lol

I can’t say that this goalpost moving isn’t exactly what I expected. But still crazy :lol

[ralph_i_el]

OKC has great ball movement.

[Im so nba'd out]

what you're saying is the truth. but they dont want to hear the truth

[3ba11]

OKC has great ball movement.


Not compared to dynasties.. Not compared to prior eras

They're also only 12th in team assists, so not even that great for this era

[StrongLurk]

Remember when OP said Denver and Boston would be in the finals this year?

[3ba11]

Remember when OP said Denver and Boston would be in the finals this year?


No one cares or thinks that has any relevance to the thread title

[StrongLurk]

No one cares or thinks that has any relevance to the thread title

Remember when OP said Denver and Boston would be in the finals this year?

[3ba11]

Remember when OP said Denver and Boston would be in the finals this year?


Remember when the NBA lost half it's ratings because the quality of basketball became so much worse than prior eras?

[Phoenix]

That's not exactly going out on a limb. A worse version of the Warriors won 3 years ago without KD. :confusedshrug:

[StrongLurk]

Remember when the NBA lost half it's ratings because the quality of basketball became so much worse than prior eras?

Remember when OP said Denver and Boston would be in the finals this year?

[ShawkFactory]

No one cares or thinks that has any relevance to the thread title

Of course it's relevant. If Denver had beaten OKC like you predicted then this thread wouldn't have been made. That's what moving the goalposts is.

[SouBeachTalents]

Remember when OP said Denver and Boston would be in the finals this year?
That's embarrassing.

[3ba11]

That's not exactly going out on a limb. A worse version of the Warriors won 3 years ago without KD. :confusedshrug:


So you just admitted that the comp is weaker today than just a few years ago, let alone the dynasties of previous eras.. good thread cliffs

[Phoenix]

So you just admitted that the comp is weaker today than just a few years ago, let alone the dynasties of previous eras.. good thread cliffs

I didn't 'admit' anything. I'm calling out your thread as 'no shit Captain Obvious'. The 2017 Warriors are considered one of the GOAT teams. If a worse version of that team without Kevin Durant won three years ago, then logically a much better version of the team would still be elite and a dynasty today. 2017 Steph, Klay, and KD would still be the three best shooters on one team if they were together in 2025. What made them unique in terms of spacing and range firepower would still apply today, they'd just be taking 40 threes like everyone else ( and being better at it).

Like, that's not some grand intellectual point you made saying they'd be a dynasty in today's NBA if they stayed together and were healthy.

[red1]

yeah great observation captain obvious



dude just listed some of the best teams in NBA history :oldlol:

[3ba11]

I didn't 'admit' anything. I'm calling out your thread as 'no shit Captain Obvious'. The 2017 Warriors are considered one of the GOAT teams. If a worse version of that team without Kevin Durant won three years ago, then logically a much better version of the team would still be elite and a dynasty today. 2017 Steph, Klay, and KD would still be the three best shooters on one team if they were together in 2025. What made them unique in terms of spacing and range firepower would still apply today, they'd just be taking 40 threes like everyone else ( and being better at it).

Like, that's not some grand intellectual point you made saying they'd be a dynasty in today's NBA if they stayed together and were healthy.


I'm talking about the peak Warriors in 2016, or the dynasty Spurs, or the dynasty Lakers... Dynasties require a ball movement system and therefore elite off-ball players, which means today's skillsets can't produce dynasties... Ball-dominators like Lebron, Luka and Harden have underwhelming teams, while SGA might beat objectively weak comp (Luka's sidekick) for the title.. Heck, Lebron or Nash's losers from the 2000's would beat SGA this year, let alone the ball movement teams that destroyed them (Warriors, Spurs), or the ball movement system that destroyed the Spurs (Lakers).

[Phoenix]

I'm talking about the peak Warriors in 2016, or the dynasty Spurs, or the dynasty Lakers... Dynasties require a ball movement system and therefore elite off-ball players, which means today's skillsets can't produce dynasties... Ball-dominators like Lebron, Luka and Harden have underwhelming teams, while SGA might beat objectively weak comp (Luka's sidekick) for the title.. Heck, Lebron or Nash's losers from the 2000's would beat SGA this year, let alone the ball movement teams that destroyed them (Warriors, Spurs), or the ball movement system that destroyed the Spurs (Lakers).

Ok. Unless I've missed it somewhere, nobody was arguing 'today's skillsets' over the Warriors, Spurs or Lakers dynasties.

[1987_Lakers]

yeah great observation captain obvious



dude just listed some of the best teams in NBA history :oldlol:

Teams that LeBron beat btw

[Wally450]

Teams that LeBron beat btw

:bowdown: :bowdown:

MJ could never.

[SouBeachTalents]

Teams that LeBron beat btw
https://media.tenor.com/9HafYbpSJz0AAAAM/ow-oooh.gif

Another self inflicted L by OP

[red1]

Teams that LeBron beat btw


https://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2818159/lebronclutch.gif
https://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1811269/pops.gif
https://i0.wp.com/media4.giphy.com/media/xTiTnnF8tWIz6hz4B2/giphy.gif
https://giffiles.alphacoders.com/269/26944.gif

[highwhey]

i mean i don't think anyone would argue against that

[1987_Lakers]

:bowdown: :bowdown:

MJ could never.

:bowdown:

[3ba11]

Ok. Unless I've missed it somewhere, nobody was arguing 'today's skillsets' over the Warriors, Spurs or Lakers dynasties.


Dynasties require a ball movement system and therefore elite off-ball players, which means today's ball-dominant skillsets can't produce dynasties..

[3ba11]

Teams that LeBron beat btw


Lebron has a lottery record against:

Warriors
Spurs
Nuggets
Magic
Mavs
Celtics

He's everyone's b*tch, pinata, punching bag, whatever you want to call it

And we aren't talking about close series - we're talking the biggest margin of loss, record sweeps and record chokes that the game has ever seen.. NO ONE got their doors blown off more than Lebron's teams..

Ultimately, Lebron has a losing record with every type of good team, such as preseason favorites (3-4), all-star teammates (4-8), Finals teams (4-6),, 1 or 2 seeds (4-5), and 4 losses with homecourt. . This is the worst anyone ever did with good rosters

[SouBeachTalents]

Jordan has a lottery record against

Bucks
Celtics
Pistons

And he has a career lottery record without Pippen

[Hey Yo]

Dynasties require a ball movement system and therefore elite off-ball players, which means today's ball-dominant skillsets can't produce dynasties..

LeBron's dynasty with 3 titles in 5yrs didn't require any type of system or elite coach.

[3ba11]

Jordan has a lottery record against

Bucks
Celtics
Pistons

And he has a career lottery record without Pippen


That's it?

That's all you got?

You listed almost nothing in Jordan's prime and nothing with all-star help, while Lebron was a perennial loser in his prime and lost 8 times with all-star teammates.

Lebron has a losing record with preseason favorites (3-4), Finals teams (4-6), all-star teammates (4-8), and 1 or 2 seeds (4-5), while MJ is undefeated in all of these scenarios.. The only exception is "only" going 6-2 with all-star teammates due to the "migraine" and baseball year.

[tpols]

The Spurs would get cooked. They almost lost to the Monta Ellis and old dirk mavs in the 1st round, and the biggest the problem is their 1st option was an end prime Tony Parker. Sorry... thats not cutting it today. They would get dominated by today's contenders.

Golden State would still wreck shop though because they had legit MVP star talent on top of all the depth and teamwork the Spurs had.

[ShawkFactory]

The Spurs would get cooked. They almost lost to the Monta Ellis and old dirk mavs in the 1st round, and the biggest the problem is their 1st option was an end prime Tony Parker. Sorry... thats not cutting it today. They would get dominated by today's contenders.

Golden State would still wreck shop though because they had legit MVP star talent on top of all the depth and teamwork the Spurs had.

They are well equipped offensively and defensively to handle the Thunder. Not saying they'd win but it would be a very good series. Much like OKC, they were very deep and played incredibly well as a team.

[rmt]

Teams that LeBron beat btw

Am I missing something? Doesn't Lebron have a 5-11 record vs the Spurs in Finals games? I guess a miracle 3 by Ray Allen allows this statement.

[SouBeachTalents]

Am I missing something? Doesn't Lebron have a 5-11 record vs the Spurs in Finals games? I guess a miracle 3 by Ray Allen allows this statement.
You're missing the fact that LeBron did beat the Spurs. Jordan lost 3 straight series to the Pistons, this doesn't change the fact that he did beat them.

[rmt]

You're missing the fact that LeBron did beat the Spurs. Jordan lost 3 straight series to the Pistons, this doesn't change the fact that he did beat them.

It was a rhetorical question which I answered myself with my last statement. My point is that Lebron's record against the Spurs (like MJ's vs Pistons) should hardly be a boasting point.

[Hey Yo]

Am I missing something? Doesn't Lebron have a 5-11 record vs the Spurs in Finals games? I guess a miracle 3 by Ray Allen allows this statement.

It was a miracle that the guy who held the record for most 3pt'ers made ... made a corner 3?

Duncan missing the multiple gimme put-backs is what should be considered a miracle for Miami that game.

[SouBeachTalents]

It was a rhetorical question which I answered myself with my last statement. My point is that Lebron's record against the Spurs (like MJ's vs Pistons) should hardly be a boasting point.
Maybe we shouldn't evaluate individual player performance with W-L record against specific teams. LeBron was fvcking terrible against the Spurs in '07, but that doesn't change the fact he went into that series at a colossal disadvantage, I doubt any player is leading that Cavs team over a dynastic one like the Spurs. His teammates were also terrible in the 2014 series.

Ditto Jordan those first 2 series against the Pistons, where he clearly didn't have the supporting cast capable of knocking off a team like the Pistons.

Should I knock Duncan for having a 2-4 record against Kobe when one player had prime Shaq for 5 of those series and the other didn't? It's just not an intelligent way to evaluate basketball.

[Phoenix]

Dynasties require a ball movement system and therefore elite off-ball players, which means today's ball-dominant skillsets can't produce dynasties..

Ok. Unless I've missed it somewhere, nobody was arguing 'today's skillsets' over the Warriors, Spurs or Lakers dynasties.

[FKAri]

Spurs would get cooked. A lot of what they ran was ahead of their time and they were going against defenses that had no idea what to do about it. No such strategic advantage today. Instead we'd be talking about how Duncan needs more shooting around him.

[red1]

Lebron has a lottery record against:

Warriors
Spurs
Nuggets
Magic
Mavs
Celtics

He's everyone's b*tch, pinata, punching bag, whatever you want to call it

And we aren't talking about close series - we're talking the biggest margin of loss, record sweeps and record chokes that the game has ever seen.. NO ONE got their doors blown off more than Lebron's teams..

Ultimately, Lebron has a losing record with every type of good team, such as preseason favorites (3-4), all-star teammates (4-8), Finals teams (4-6),, 1 or 2 seeds (4-5), and 4 losses with homecourt. . This is the worst anyone ever did with good rosters

the dynasty slayer

only player with a finals MVP over the spurs
only player with a finals MVP over a 70+win team


game 7 James


https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExaHFnOTJmYXV5eGhoM21wcHZtaDFjcTd jcDJmcjN6b3ZsaHFva2g2MSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/l0Iy4NNcfabJ3jgNG/giphy.gif

[red1]

It was a rhetorical question which I answered myself with my last statement. My point is that Lebron's record against the Spurs (like MJ's vs Pistons) should hardly be a boasting point.

it's definitely a boasting point

record is 1-0 when lebron had a healthy squad

2007 squad was dogshit and wade's knees were done by 2014 dude couldn't even run

[ralph_i_el]

OKC doesn't have a ball dominator.

SGA was 29th in the league in touches per game. Keyonte George had more touches per game than him.

SGA was 10th in time of possession per game (he is near the top in average time per touch with Jalen Brunson).

He was 10th in points per touch, 6th among players that appeared in at least 40 games (highest points-per-touch for any guard).


I sorted for just the Thunder's "touches" stats, and they have one of the more even distributions of time-of-possession in the league. Their 11th highest ToP player still averages 1 mpg with the ball.

For comparison, the Celtics have 7 guys that average 1 mpg with the ball or more.

Minny has 9

Indiana has 9

Knicks have 9

I started watching OKC a lot back in 22-23, because they started reminding me of the 2014 Spurs in how the coordinated player movement so effectively on offense. Putting players in places that play to their strengths over and over again, getting the most out of your talent by playing real 5 man basketball.