Will SGA be the 1st ball-dominator to win w/ "normal" roster of 1 franchise player

[3ba11]

* BALL-DOMINATOR = high-scoring primary ballhandler, aka Luka, Lebron, Harden, Westbrook, etc.

* FRANCHISE PLAYER = elite producers that were asked to build a lottery team from scratch, aka they're being "built around".


It's statistical fact that ball-dominators have a skillset of mostly unassisted buckets (low assisted rates), and this high volume of unassisted buckets leaves teammates standing around in spot-up roles (more assisted buckets, higher assisted rates).. The spot-up roles lower teammates' APG and produces low assist teams over time.. This weaker brand of ball has never won with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player or produced "great teams" such as dynasties (3 in 5), or dominant title russ (4 loses max).

The reason that a ball-dominator like SGA might finally break through with a regular roster is because it's become a league of ball-dominators, so one of them is bound to win.. Ball-dominators are characterized by unassisted buckets (low assisted rates) - anyone with a career assisted rate below 40% is a primary ballhandler, and today's players are all below 40% or barely straddling 40% like Ant... The ball-domination of today's players is why they would lose to the ball movement dynasties of previous eras, such as the dynasty Warriors, Spurs or Bulls.. Dynasties have always required ball movement systems, which require elite off-ball players, thus precluding today's ball-dominators from ever having a dynasty.. Unfortunately, Curry is the last great off-ball player.

[Neal Romer]

To your point, if he keeps playing mid and they still win, people are going to call it some legendary run by him due to the absence of any other marquee players.

Context isnt gonna be remembered. It will just be "Shai carried one of the youngest and weakest casts everrrrrr!!!!! No other hall of famers!!!!!!!!"

Thats the level of discussion that surrounds these things.

[3ba11]

To your point, if he keeps playing mid and they still win, people are going to call it some legendary run by him due to the absence of any other marquee players.

Context isnt gonna be remembered. It will just be "Shai carried one of the youngest and weakest casts everrrrrr!!!!! No other hall of famers!!!!!!!!"

Thats the level of discussion that surrounds these things.


Agreed.. The analysis is junior-high level...

The reason that a ball-dominator like SGA might finally break through with a regular roster is because it's become a league of ball-dominators, so one of them is bound to win.. Ball-dominators are characterized by unassisted buckets (low assisted rates) - anyone with a career assisted rate below 40% is a primary ballhandler, and today's players are all below 40% or barely straddling 40% like Ant... The ball-domination of today's players is why they would lose to the ball movement dynasties of previous eras, such as the dynasty Warriors, Spurs or Bulls.. Dynasties have always required ball movement systems, which require elite off-ball players, thus precluding today's ball-dominators from ever having a dynasty.

[ImKobe]

To your point, if he keeps playing mid and they still win, people are going to call it some legendary run by him due to the absence of any other marquee players.

Context isnt gonna be remembered. It will just be "Shai carried one of the youngest and weakest casts everrrrrr!!!!! No other hall of famers!!!!!!!!"

Thats the level of discussion that surrounds these things.

He's putting up 29/6/7 w just 2 TOs he's not doing bad and yes, he's carrying the team. No one else has a 20 PER and he's averaging ~10 ppg more than the 2nd option. Better numbers than Tatum in any of his Playoff runs and thriving with a less talented cast vs. better teams.

[3ba11]

He's putting up 29/6/7 w just 2 TOs he's not doing bad and yes, he's carrying the team. No one else has a 20 PER and he's averaging ~10 ppg more than the 2nd option. Better numbers than Tatum in any of his Playoff runs and thriving with a less talented cast vs. better teams.


Yes not too shabby for a ball-dominator, I must admit.. They typically struggle with turnovers and carrying the scoring load vs top teams (too ball-dominant)... It doesn't hurt that the top 5 SRS teams are all eliminated already

[Manny98]

I'd say this OKC team has more talent top to bottom than all of LeBrons championship teams

Williams and Holmgren are both stars, and then you have guys like Dort,Caruso, Hartenstein and Wallace

[j3lademaster]

Okc has a solid big 3 that complements Shai. Jdub is a smaller, shiftier Pippen with better shooting and Chet is one of the best shotblockers/ at the rim defenders ever who can also defend on the perimeter. Then you have a team full of guys who affect the game beyond the stat sheet: Dort, Caruso, Hartenstein, Cason Wallace. The ‘stacked team-ups’ are overrated and only work if they include elite shooting like Ray Allen or… Curry, Klay and KD; you’re much better off with lunch pail guys who can take pressure off your superstar and while also playing for him. Also see: 2024 Celtics.

Outside of game 5 against Denver, Shia’s playoff stats only look ok because of two blowouts where his elite production wasn’t even needed. He’s had plenty of stinkers where his team was able to flat out win in spite of him or kept it close in spite of him only for him to never actually show up. Where and when the stats come matters, context needs to matter,

[SouBeachTalents]

Okc has a solid big 3 that complements Shai. Jdub is a smaller, shiftier Pippen with better shooting and Chet is one of the best shotblockers/ at the rim defenders ever who can also defend on the perimeter. Then you have a team full of guys who affect the game beyond the stat sheet: Dort, Caruso, Hartenstein, Cason Wallace. The ‘stacked team-ups’ are overrated and only work if they include elite shooting like Ray Allen or… Curry, Klay and KD; you’re much better off with lunch pail guys who can take pressure off your superstar and while also playing for him. Also see: 2024 Celtics.

Outside of game 5 against Denver, Shia’s playoff stats only look ok because of two blowouts where his elite production wasn’t even needed. He’s had plenty of stinkers where his team was able to flat out win in spite of him or kept it close in spite of him only for him to never actually show up. Where and when the stats come matters, context needs to matter,
Based off eye test, Shai honestly hasn't been as impressive to me as his statline would indicate. It would put him in the Wade/Kawhi/Kobe tier of playoff runs, and imo he hasn't performed at that level. Just the last couple of games he stat padded big time in Game 7, and he really didn't play that well last night.

[ShawkFactory]

Based off eye test, Shai honestly hasn't been as impressive to me as his statline would indicate. It would put him in the Wade/Kawhi/Kobe tier of playoff runs, and imo he hasn't performed at that level. Just the last couple of games he stat padded big time in Game 7, and he really didn't play that well last night.

He was awful shooting in the first half but played a huge part in the avalanche that put the game away in the 3rd. Overall a pretty average game for him I'd say.

[Wardell Curry]

FTA = Gay

[90sgoat]

Shai is a ball dominator, but he is unique in that he uses his ball domination to get midrange shots, which he shoots at a very high percentage.

Other ball dominators like Lebron or Luka go for 3s or layups, but Shai can hit the midrange which makes him able to "get buckets" more than Lebron or Luka with lower variance.

[AlternativeAcc.]

He's putting up 29/6/7 w just 2 TOs he's not doing bad and yes, he's carrying the team. No one else has a 20 PER and he's averaging ~10 ppg more than the 2nd option. Better numbers than Tatum in any of his Playoff runs and thriving with a less talented cast vs. better teams.

He's carrying them at times on offense, but "carrying" in the traditional sense (LeBron early Cleveland years)... no

Similar to 2019 Raptors and 2022 Warriors, Thunder simply have well-rounded production and defense from a litney of players, 90s Bulls are another good example.

The notion that your 2nd option has to average a bunch of points or you have no help is cringe level analysis and this entire thread undermines 3balls entire philosophy of basketball.

I said for years KD never had a championship roster in OKC, but people pointed to Westbricks stats as to why he did. You guys just don't know basketball and that great help can show itself in many different forms and roster constructions.

[Neal Romer]

He's putting up 29/6/7 w just 2 TOs he's not doing bad and yes, he's carrying the team. No one else has a 20 PER and he's averaging ~10 ppg more than the 2nd option. Better numbers than Tatum in any of his Playoff runs and thriving with a less talented cast vs. better teams.

If you've watched the games and think he hasnt been mid by star-player standards... well... I guess you're entitled to that opinion.

[Neal Romer]

Okc has a solid big 3 that complements Shai. Jdub is a smaller, shiftier Pippen with better shooting and Chet is one of the best shotblockers/ at the rim defenders ever who can also defend on the perimeter. Then you have a team full of guys who affect the game beyond the stat sheet: Dort, Caruso, Hartenstein, Cason Wallace. The ‘stacked team-ups’ are overrated and only work if they include elite shooting like Ray Allen or… Curry, Klay and KD; you’re much better off with lunch pail guys who can take pressure off your superstar and while also playing for him. Also see: 2024 Celtics.

Outside of game 5 against Denver, Shia’s playoff stats only look ok because of two blowouts where his elite production wasn’t even needed. He’s had plenty of stinkers where his team was able to flat out win in spite of him or kept it close in spite of him only for him to never actually show up. Where and when the stats come matters, context needs to matter,

Bruh he's a poor man's Jaylen Brown. He aint no Scottie "12 inch" Pippen.

Also, people are predictably falling into the "sum of the parts" trap here.

"Well if it isnt this individual thats making them win, then its that individual. Oh its not that individual? Well then which is it?? Because so and so only has 9 points in the box score!"

OKC plays like a damn team. They can win even if nobody is individually dominating. Shai has been mid by his standards, and nobody else has been a dominant scorer. But they're a team. They play great defense and they lift each other up and they battle for 48 minutes.

Trying to assign pie-chart shares of credit is useless. OKC is playing great as a team. Period.

[Neal Romer]

He's carrying them at times on offense, but "carrying" in the traditional sense (LeBron early Cleveland years)... no

Similar to 2019 Raptors and 2022 Warriors, Thunder simply have well-rounded production and defense from a litney of players, 90s Bulls are another good example.

The notion that your 2nd option has to average a bunch of points or you have no help is cringe level analysis and this entire thread undermines 3balls entire philosophy of basketball.

I said for years KD never had a championship roster in OKC, but people pointed to Westbricks stats as to why he did. You guys just don't know basketball and that great help can show itself in many different forms and roster constructions.

I hadnt seen this comment when I typed mine, but yeah... it's basically this.

[ImKobe]

He's carrying them at times on offense, but "carrying" in the traditional sense (LeBron early Cleveland years)... no

Similar to 2019 Raptors and 2022 Warriors, Thunder simply have well-rounded production and defense from a litney of players, 90s Bulls are another good example.

The notion that your 2nd option has to average a bunch of points or you have no help is cringe level analysis and this entire thread undermines 3balls entire philosophy of basketball.

I said for years KD never had a championship roster in OKC, but people pointed to Westbricks stats as to why he did. You guys just don't know basketball and that great help can show itself in many different forms and roster constructions.

He's their only consistent scoring option against a set half court defense. Obviously they can generate open looks for others but from game to game it's Shai putting up a consistent 29 a game. He's scored 25 or more in 10 out of their 12 games. He's carrying OKC as much as Lebron carried his Cavs teams BUT he doesn't stat-pad like Bran does. In the RS he absolutely carried the OKC as much as Bran has ever carried any team ever.

OKC with KD were legitimate contenders in 2012, 2014 & 2016. They were favored to win the Finals in 2012 and 2016 they looked like they were going to win the championship up 3 - 1 on GS before both KD and Russ choked in G6.

[Neal Romer]

He's their only consistent scoring option against a set half court defense. Obviously they can generate open looks for others but from game to game it's Shai putting up a consistent 29 a game. He's scored 25 or more in 10 out of their 12 games. He's carrying OKC as much as Lebron carried his Cavs teams BUT he doesn't stat-pad like Bran does. In the RS he absolutely carried the OKC as much as Bran has ever carried any team ever.

OKC with KD were legitimate contenders in 2012, 2014 & 2016. They were favored to win the Finals in 2012 and 2016 they looked like they were going to win the championship up 3 - 1 on GS before both KD and Russ choked in G6.

Nobody's saying he's been bad.

Just that for a superstar, he's been... mid.

And if you go by more than the box score, he has.

So has basically every star in these playoffs. The difference in regular season vs playoff game planning has been pretty clear. Teams are really keyed in on stopping opposing stars. And it's working.

It's gonna be the best team that wins.

People who wanna boil everything down to just 'star vs star'... this is not really their year.

[StrongLurk]

Imagine claiming this Thunder team is a normal roster.

They basically have 5 all-nba level defenders (including Shai to his credit) and tons of depth. The idea of boiling this entire roster down to individual PPG is absurdity.

[Full Court]

Unlike Harden, Westbrook, Luka, Lebron, SGA is an elite defender as well as a scorer. He's simply a better basketball player than those other guys.

[brownmamba00]

SGA is the lead guard not just a "ball dominator" smh

[Mask the Embiid]

https://media.tenor.com/3Vb8gB5h70UAAAAM/zesty.gif
https://i.postimg.cc/j5LPs9x4/NXktw.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbrHusRr5UI&ab_channel=kekilovemusic\



Day 5 of celebrating


I dont care about the zest. Thank you shai. Thank you caruso. LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU DOORTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!





















he's out of hereeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. better than shaq and hakeem lmfaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

the **** is wrong with them shai???

https://media.tenor.com/HW6P4vqxjisAAAAM/shai-gilgeous-alexander-shai-gilgeous-alexander.gif

[SouBeachTalents]

^ This fakkit didn't realize he posted this with his i'm so nba'd out account, deleted it, then posted it on this account :lol

[Im so nba'd out]

^ This fakkit didn't realize he posted this with his i'm so nba'd out account, deleted it, then posted it on this account :lol

I want to keep the jokic hate to one account