"The Lie About Michael Jordan's Left Hand EXPOSED with Real Highlights!"

[2qr3]

https://youtu.be/opIWFz1knKk

[gengiskhan]

How "smooth" is that LEFTY Jumpshot even in his twilight years (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gkknsZbfwvg)

[gengiskhan]

My favorite LEFTY drive & Layup of all time...

I tried this all the time on court and never came close. the gather step for RIGHT handed player off WRONG foot is usually weak. MJ was AMBIDEXTROUS. doing this lefty from "top of the Key" is nearly impossible unless you are lefty.

at 14 secs.......Just from "top of the key"...one lefty dribble...collect with massive LEFT hand...AC Green completely beaten.....MJ's "gather" step for right handed player is other worldly...so quick....so elite...MJ is 2+ feet in air off wrong foot.....easily drops layup on Divac.....watch the "replay" (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wlM21P5dZUA)


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wlM21P5dZUA

[tpols]

I dont think the point was that he couldnt finish with his left hand. Its that he awkwardly palmed /dribbled everything righty usually before finishing whichever way improv style.

Kobe was sort of like the evolution in that sense in that he had MJs game+ and he had handles.

Now that was a sight to behold. The sensei being mastered by his student.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/83693d2725459fd37c7d5e15a624789b/tumblr_mr85crsbvk1rvn2ylo2_r1_400.gifv

[gengiskhan]

I dont think the point was that he couldnt finish with his left hand. Its that he awkwardly palmed /dribbled everything righty usually before finishing whichever way improv style.

Kobe was sort of like the evolution in that sense in that he had MJs game+ and he had handles.

Now that was a sight to behold. The sensei being mastered by his student.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/83693d2725459fd37c7d5e15a624789b/tumblr_mr85crsbvk1rvn2ylo2_r1_400.gifv

Kobe dont even have 50% talent of twlight MJ. let alone mastery of anything.

MJs dribble was "utility" one. minimum dribbles to the maximum results and effects. MJ dribble "moved" the ball unlike midgit handed kobe who had to extra dribble to get in rhythm.

MJ's "set up" dribble before thunderous dunks is something midgit handed, weak kobe cannot even think of.

I wont even mention MJ's post-up, fadeaway game in his peak prime. Kobe only partly 50% copied old, twilight, slow MJs postup fade away game.

MJ was always leagues ahead of Kobe in every aspect. Nobody cares about extra, fancy dribbles.

I only care about MJs long dribbles, as the ball rotated on his massive hands in between those long dribbles as he took long hops while adding escape dribble every now and then.

something Kobe can only dream of after watching MJ VHS tapes of come fly with me or airtime.

[gengiskhan]

I dont think the point was that he couldnt finish with his left hand. Its that he awkwardly palmed /dribbled everything righty usually before finishing whichever way improv style.

Kobe was sort of like the evolution in that sense in that he had MJs game+ and he had handles.

Now that was a sight to behold. The sensei being mastered by his student.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/83693d2725459fd37c7d5e15a624789b/tumblr_mr85crsbvk1rvn2ylo2_r1_400.gifv

Rookie MJ's nasty, full blooded, LEFT handed, in-and-out dribble lightening dribble that froze the defender into a dunk!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW9Zrl0PpW8

[MrFonzworth]

Kobe dont even have 50% talent of twlight MJ. let alone mastery of anything.

MJs dribble was "utility" one. minimum dribbles to the maximum results and effects. MJ dribble "moved" the ball unlike midgit handed kobe who had to extra dribble to get in rhythm.

MJ's "set up" dribble before thunderous dunks is something midgit handed, weak kobe cannot even think of.

I wont even mention MJ's post-up, fadeaway game in his peak prime. Kobe only partly 50% copied old, twilight, slow MJs postup fade away game.

MJ was always leagues ahead of Kobe in every aspect. Nobody cares about extra, fancy dribbles.

I only care about MJs long dribbles, as the ball rotated on his massive hands in between those long dribbles as he took long hops while adding escape dribble every now and then.

something Kobe can only dream of after watching MJ VHS tapes of come fly with me or airtime.

Hilariously awful take. It's pretty sickening knowing people actually believe this shi*!

[gengiskhan]

Hilariously awful take. It's pretty sickening knowing people actually believe this shi*!

Imagine if you were blind....

Imagine if all this wasn't recorded....

now...

Notice the LEFTY dragging slide, than lefty slip before perfect Lefty english off the left hand.... (all this is literally bordering on TRAVEL violation).

MJ studied lefties a lot when resting on bench he said. One of the luxury MJ had in practice and in his later years was to study LEFTY kukoc how he moved in the lane. He mentioned that........Kukoc did a lot of LEFTY dragging slide and cover tons of space.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kBXNOMorVeU

[gengiskhan]

....just outta boredom

....just imagine if you can do this.


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dRz_xwGTw7k

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dRz_xwGTw7k

Had he tried, he could've had a thunderous breakaway dunk.

[tpols]

I only care about MJs long dribbles, as the ball rotated on his massive hands in between those long dribbles

Dude... this is starting to sound like an erotica novel.

We know there were many "long dribbles"... especially off your chin. And "so long as the balls rotated" you were enthused. :lol

Its ok to move on bro.

[Da_Realist]

No exploitable weakness, cat-quick, could jump out of the gym, fundamentally sound, flawless footwork, lethal midrange game, sky high IQ, hyper-competitive, nonstop motor, fearless, driven, clutch. all-court player.

[gengiskhan]

No exploitable weakness, cat-quick, could jump out of the gym, fundamentally sound, flawless footwork, lethal midrange game, sky high IQ, hyper-competitive, nonstop motor, fearless, driven, clutch. all-court player.

Jordan shooting LEFTY 3 Point shots at 3 point contest at Charity Game!......................Very Rare

Notice his form from 3. its not all that smooth as of 1989. He got much smoother in the 90s with his lefty jump shot.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI140hXEN6g

[warriorfan]

I shot right and threw right and could switch hit. Write left handed. My left hand dribble was better than my right and used it most of the time. My right was probably 90% or better in terms to my left. Was very comfortable going left and bringing up the ball strong with both hands while finishing on left side of the hoop with right hand. Gave me a good advantage over a lot of players.

[3ba11]

I dont think the point was that he couldnt finish with his left hand. Its that he awkwardly palmed /dribbled everything righty usually before finishing whichever way improv style.

Kobe was sort of like the evolution in that sense in that he had MJs game+ and he had handles.

Now that was a sight to behold. The sensei being mastered by his student.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/83693d2725459fd37c7d5e15a624789b/tumblr_mr85crsbvk1rvn2ylo2_r1_400.gifv


MJ dribbled everything righty?

Horrible troll and hurts your credibility.. It gives you the same perception that red1 has

The goat left hand drive is the baseline dunk over Ewing, or various others.

MJ had the goat left hand drive and the goat left hand layup/finish, which is part of the reason that he's the unquestioned GOAT scorer - there's nothing in basketball more settled than who the goat scorer is.

[Chick Stern]

He certainly pushed off with his left

[sdot_thadon]

I'm pretty sure the whole narrative is about sending him left being a lower percentage option than allowing him to go right. All those highlights if there are any dribbles left its 1 or 2 max. Plenty of those are him dribbling right and finishing a layup left handed. I'd hope the goat could make a layup with his left hand geez. And this shit about Kobe is ridiculous. I've never really been as big a fan of kobe as I was of Mike but one thing you cant deny Kobe was just as skilled and imo more skilled than Mike. Kobe is one the short list of most skilled ever....above Mike. Reasoning? Mike was blessed with more athletic ability than Kobe and usually one move or sometimes no moves were enough to get by his man. If you watched Kobe he'd sometimes use counters just to beat the 1st defender and definitely use them on the next 3 to 4 in his way. Mike's athleticism gap over his peers allowed him to improvise more than Kobes more methodical approach. Just my 2 cents.

[Phoenix]

Yeah Kobe really had to develop certain counters to make up for the physical gap between himself and MJ. I note with MJ that his counters seemed more instinctive whereas with Kobe, it was like he does certain moves to goad the defender into a particular reaction, so he's already got the counter to that reaction lined up. MJ definitely got more height off the ground on this jumpshot, so he didn't do alot of the shot-pump fakes Kobe needed to get off. Kobe was more skilled using the dribble to get separation, MJ used his body more with head/shoulder fakes and shimmies, and his hand size allowed him to manipulate the ball in ways Kobe simply couldn't.

[3ba11]

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.
The greatest and most advanced left hand drive ever:



https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-11-2015/cxsw7A.gif


^^^ the stop and restart fake was copied by Kyrie and Steph

[tpols]

.
.
The greatest and most advanced left hand drive ever:



https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-11-2015/cxsw7A.gif


^^^ the stop and restart fake was copied by Kyrie and Steph

Another angle of this play as well as your own shows how major a double dribble that was. Dude totally picked the ball up and then just put it back down. Thats why the defenders were so out of place when he specifically did that.

[3ba11]

Another angle of this play as well as your own shows how major a double dribble that was. Dude totally picked the ball up and then just put it back down. Thats why the defenders were so out of place when he specifically did that.


You don't know about basketball and can't play, so be quiet. You have no ideas what you're talking about

The best ball-handlers of all-time copied this move

Case closed.. your "never played" opinion holds no water here .. Maybe stick to the numbers and let real ballers discuss the actual game..

And btw, I could spend all day posting GOAT left hand drives by MJ because he had the goat in left hand (drive or shot-making)

[tpols]

Look when his back is turned. He was literally holding the ball and pausing... and then threw it back down when the defenders saw he picked his dribble up. Curry did that once too I remember Kblaze had a gif of it. That was a double dribble too.

Tell me to be quiet? :lol You a funny one. Would get slapped in person for real boy.

[Hey Yo]

You don't know about basketball and can't play, so be quiet. You have no ideas what you're talking about

The best ball-handlers of all-time copied this move

Case closed.. your "never played" opinion holds no water here .. Maybe stick to the numbers and let real ballers discuss the actual game..

And btw, I could spend all day posting GOAT left hand drives by MJ because he had the goat in left hand (drive or shot-making)
Cliff notes:

:cry: you weren't suppose to mention the double dribble :cry:

[3ba11]

Look when his back is turned. He was literally holding the ball and pausing... and then threw it back down when the defenders saw he picked his dribble up. Curry did that once too I remember Kblaze had a gif of it. That was a double dribble too.

Tell me to be quiet? :lol You a funny one. Would get slapped in person for real boy.


I'm here in Vegas... Let me know when you're here so you can slap me

You've made it obvious that you don't know the game... You didn't make the team and you've been bitter ever since

[diamenz]

Look when his back is turned. He was literally holding the ball and pausing... and then threw it back down when the defenders saw he picked his dribble up. Curry did that once too I remember Kblaze had a gif of it. That was a double dribble too.

Tell me to be quiet? :lol You a funny one. Would get slapped in person for real boy.

you make a play like that though, the refs ain't calling that shit. that type of move is a "let em play, carry on" type of situation.

[tpols]

you make a play like that though, the refs ain't calling that shit. that type of move is a "let em play, carry on" type of situation.

Only if youre Mike. Or another superstar. A scrub would get called for that the second he put the ball back down.

[tpols]

How you want it?

Front hand or back hand...?


https://youtu.be/iGAMbNKcN1U?si=KYTHZwgARVVarqav

I'm just as big as you dude. Your height doesn't mean anything to me.

[3ba11]

.
tpols probably thinks this is the same move as the Ewing dunk.. :oldlol:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-03-2025/zx2Rda.gif


Sorry you got cut dude... Get over it . It's been over 20 years already

[tpols]

Its actually kinda crazy though. How can somebody thats 6'7 and blessed with great athleticism only be a college bench scrub? That is further than I got, but I didn't have those gifts. Your skills must be straight trash. :lol

[3ba11]

Its actually kinda crazy though. How can somebody thats 6'7 and blessed with great athleticism only be a college bench scrub? That is further than I got, but I didn't have those gifts. Your skills must be straight trash. :lol


Yup.. I'm big... A big dude... So I've done things that you can only dream about.. Try not to sound so bitter about it

[tpols]

You're only big on the outside. On the inside youre a tiny little man. I'm big on the outside too though brother. And this ain't about basketball. :lol

[3ba11]

You're only big on the outside. On the inside youre a tiny little man. I'm big on the outside too though brother. And this ain't about basketball. :lol


You sound insecure like you're trying to prove something. I'm going to be the bigger man and let you win this one.. back to basketball talk, but feel better bud

[3ba11]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-11-2015/cxsw7A.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-03-2025/zx2Rda.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-03-2025/AFeDnc.gif

[3ba11]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-03-2025/-JCEKv.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-03-2025/DCDWKE.gif


https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-03-2025/O1nYND.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-03-2025/0U6OAb.gif


https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-03-2025/zkWHIj.gif

[Da_Realist]

Even I was surprised by the "MJ couldn't go left" movement. Surely people aren't that willingly ignorant. Boy was I wrong. Despite MJ's whole career being on video...

[jstern]

I just noticed. Op is 6'10", 3ball is 6'7", and tpols is 6'4". 3 inches difference for each. If only some of those inches could be donated to Lebron23.

[3ba11]

I just noticed. Op is 6'10", 3ball is 6'7", and tpols is 6'4". 3 inches difference for each. If only some of those inches could be donated to Lebron23.


tpols is not 6 feet tall, or he wouldn't be so defensive. No big dude feels the need to defend their size like that. He's 5'10 tops and is pissed every day that he isn't 6 feet

And none of you guys can hoop for shit or understand the game. That's why I had to teach you how ball movement and chemistry affected teammate performance, and therefore mattered more than roster talent among contenders... And how ball-domination/heliocentric is BAD... Actually, you guys still haven't learned these lessons

[jstern]

tpols is not 6 feet tall, or he wouldn't be so defensive. No big dude feels the need to defend their size like that. He's 5'10 tops and is pissed every day that he isn't 6 feet

And none of you guys can hoop for shit or understand the game. That's why I had to teach you how ball movement and chemistry affected teammate performance, and therefore mattered more than roster talent among contenders... And how ball-domination/heliocentric is BAD... Actually, you guys still haven't learned these lessons

I can hoop. I copied Jordan's game. I used to be like Kobe, dissecting it. Some people have called me the best they've ever seen.

[3ba11]

I can hoop. I copied Jordan's game. I used to be like Kobe, dissecting it. Some people have called me the best they've ever seen.


You're a bum or you would've posted a few moves in the "show off your skills thread"

Again, you guys were all cut from the team and don't understand the game because you were never any good

Btw, tpunk thinks the gifs above are MJ "awkwardly palming the ball with his right hand and trying to go left".. he fell for pure Klutch BS, so he has no spine - a mental and physical midget

[jstern]

This is precisely why I don't want RRR3 (and Axe) using my avatar. With the level of hatred that people have for RRR3, it gets rubbed off on me. I also have reason to believe that RRR3 somehow hacked into my computer. The worse is Off the Court using my avatar, due to his low IQ.

[Axe]

^^
Another adderall-induced meltdown.

[diamenz]

Only if youre Mike. Or another superstar. A scrub would get called for that the second he put the ball back down.

oh i agree.

[3ba11]

oh i agree.


I guess you guys have no handle... :confusedshrug:

the elite move that he did, which Curry/Kyrie and others have copied, never turns the ball over in his palm or even to it's side.. It's simply a high-dribble that uses the ball's existing upward momentum from the bounce to simply hold the ball a little longer in place (without turning hand over or to the side).

Hope that helps you guys.

Oh, and he's done it many other times.

[3ba11]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-04-2025/n991Y1.gif


https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-04-2025/uX0vP0.gif


https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-04-2025/m5AFmE.gif


https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-08-2015/lFE09a.gif

[3ba11]

My junior high coach said that you can't make the team if you can't go left, yet many new fans are so clueless that they think the goat scorer didn't have a left hand.. It's a remarkable demonstration of how the world's intellect has cratered.

[gengiskhan]

My junior high coach said that you can't make the team if you can't go left, yet many new fans are so clueless that they think the goat scorer didn't have a left hand.. It's a remarkable demonstration of how the world's intellect has cratered.

This is how this so called "PROJECTION" phylosophy of theirs work!

Because their ESPN created, make believe God in LBJ and Kobe cannot go "left" and finish off with "left" like true, GOAT.

they watch DREXLER and DOMINIQUE over and over again and realize, both look down when dribbling even with "right", they can literally PROJECT that on GOAT.

Since, both DREXLER and DOMINIQUE played in same golden era as GOAT, much of the GenY and GenZ will buy into it as a collective projection fallacy.

Same way, Rookie GOAT did not have Jumper while coming into the NBA was invented.

But no one can explain its GOATs UNC Jumpers that won them crucial NCAA games including 1982 NCAA Championship and also 1984 Gold and 1983 Pan American Games etc etc.

Its being done at all level. ESPN to NBA fake critics to Klutch sports to LAL fans. Just somehow bring GOAT down a notch so that their ATG Kobe and LBJ look not that bad.

But GOAT was that much perfect.

[gengiskhan]

GOAT

Age 32....

How Casually he got at LEFTY layup even in Pick Up games of Jordan Dome, SPACE JAM shooting!

Watch from... 0:38 to 0:43


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck0G2fLZJWE

[jstern]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIPDGCM4pGA


^^
Another adderall-induced meltdown.

I just noticed that Neal Romer hasn't made a single post ever since I speculated that he might be one of your alts. I just don't understand all these "coincidences" when it comes to you.

[Axe]

Always has to be me according to the adderall-induced idiot above me. :facepalm

Rent free, moron.

[sdot_thadon]

The more age and perspective I get away from the Jordan era the more I realize adult Mj stans are complete idiots for the most part. You guys bring all these meme movements upon yourselves then complain about them. Mj wasn't perfect, he walked amongst the greatest of the greats and he just might be the goat depending on criteria. But let's quit being dumb****s. The teams that kicked his ass before he started feasting on inferior squads told you his weaknesses up front.

Take advantage of his lack of toughness

Send him left

Double him at specific points if possible

And make him shoot jumpers out of his comfortable range.

Did any of this shit work 100% of the time? Of course not great players find a way. At a certain level no strategy will work forever against monsters. You guys try way too hard to prove beyond what's already proven and somehow end up working backwards taking away from his greatness.

[Phoenix]

The more age and perspective I get away from the Jordan era the more I realize adult Mj stans are complete idiots for the most part. You guys bring all these meme movements upon yourselves then complain about them. Mj wasn't perfect, he walked amongst the greatest of the greats and he just might be the goat depending on criteria. But let's quit being dumb****s. The teams that kicked his ass before he started feasting on inferior squads told you his weaknesses up front.

Take advantage of his lack of toughness

Send him left

Double him at specific points if possible

And make him shoot jumpers out of his comfortable range.

Did any of this shit work 100% of the time? Of course not great players find a way. At a certain level no strategy will work forever against monsters. You guys try way too hard to prove beyond what's already proven and somehow end up working backwards taking away from his greatness.

I maintain to this day 3ball has done more to damage MJ's legacy than protect it( and I'm not sure he's not some weird Lebron stan doing it to draw heat).

[3ba11]

.
.
Lebron received 4 players that were superior to 1990 Pippen but his "bron-ball" skillset imposed spot-up roles, so he couldn't develop them or win anything with them like MJ did with Pippen:




05' HUGHES (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hughela01.html)............... 21.6 PER... 0.157 WS/48... 3.7 VORP... 4.3 BPM... 22/6/5... 1st Team All-Defense
90' PIPPEN (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html)................. 16.3 PER... 0.087 WS/48... 3.0 VORP... 1.8 BPM... 16/6/5... No All-Defense

09' MO WILLIAMS (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html)....... 17.2 PER... 0.165 WS/48... 3.1 VORP... 2.3 BPM... 17/3/4
90' PIPPEN (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html)................. 16.3 PER... 0.087 WS/48... 3.0 VORP... 1.8 BPM... 16/7/5

09' JAMISON (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamisan01.html).............. 20.6 PER... 0.126 WS/48... 2.8 VORP... 1.6 BPM... 22/9/2
90' PIPPEN (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html)................. 16.3 PER... 0.087 WS/48... 3.0 VORP... 1.8 BPM... 16/7/5

06' ZYDRUNAS (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ilgauzy01.html)'............ 21.9 PER... 0.184 WS/48... 2.1 VORP... 1.6 BPM... 16/8/1 (2 bpg)
90' PIPPEN (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html).................. 16.3 PER... 0.087 WS/48... 3.0 VORP... 1.8 BPM... 16/7/5

[3ba11]

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Early Career Foibles

22 on 36% (6 TO's)............ Lebron 2007 Finals
26 on 36% (5 TO's)............ Lebron 2008 2nd Round
21 on 34% (last 3 gms)...... Lebron 2010 2nd Round
7 TO in 4th of Game 4......... Lebron 2009 ECF (Courtney Lee decision and 12 TO per 48 in clutch-time)
17.8 ppg goat choke........... Lebron 2011 Finals


^^^ that's 5 straight seasons of the getting locked up with worst-ever "chucking" (efficiency/turnovers), or losing as the favorite (with worst-ever clutch play)... :confusedshrug:





The more age and perspective I get away from the Jordan era the more I realize adult Mj stans are complete idiots for the most part. You guys bring all these meme movements upon yourselves then complain about them. Mj wasn't perfect, he walked amongst the greatest of the greats and he just might be the goat depending on criteria. But let's quit being dumb****s. The teams that kicked his ass before he started feasting on inferior squads told you his weaknesses up front.

Take advantage of his lack of toughness

Send him left

Double him at specific points if possible

And make him shoot jumpers out of his comfortable range.

Did any of this shit work 100% of the time? Of course not great players find a way. At a certain level no strategy will work forever against monsters. You guys try way too hard to prove beyond what's already proven and somehow end up working backwards taking away from his greatness.


In contrast to 80's Jordan always dominating despite "accolade-less" baby rosters, young Lebron had many bad series and lost more than Jordan despite veteran-laden casts of all-defensive resumes (Snow, Hughes, Varejao, Ben Wallace), and all-star resumes (Zydrunas, Jamison, Mo).

History shows that the 2007-2010 Cavs maintained better defensive ranking than the 1st three-peat Bulls, while also acquiring a 20k scorer and much better scorer than Pippen to play 3rd option (Jamson).. Jamison outplayed Lebron in the 2007 1st Round (32 to 28 ppg).. So the Cavs had better help on both sides of the ball from 2006-2010 than the 1st three-peat Bulls, especially since that the 06' Cavs made the playoffs by acquiring someone that was better than 1990 Pippen on both sides of the ball (04' and 05' Hughes).. Stats in previous post above.

[sdot_thadon]

I maintain to this day 3ball has done more to damage MJ's legacy than protect it( and I'm not sure he's not some weird Lebron stan doing it to draw heat).

Exactly the worst spokesperson of all time for any brand ive ever seen. He laps the field. Plot twist would be 3ball is Maverick Carter.

[sdot_thadon]

In contrast to 80's Jordan always dominating despite "accolade-less" baby rosters, young Lebron had many bad series and lost more than Jordan despite veteran-laden casts of all-defensive resumes (Snow, Hughes, Varejao, Ben Wallace), and all-star resumes (Zydrunas, Jamison, Mo).

History shows that the 2007-2010 Cavs maintained better defensive ranking than the 1st three-peat Bulls, while also acquiring a 20k scorer and much better scorer than Pippen to play 3rd option (Jamson).. Jamison outplayed Lebron in the 2007 1st Round (32 to 28 ppg).. So the Cavs had better help on both sides of the ball from 2006-2010 than the 1st three-peat Bulls, especially since that the 06' Cavs made the playoffs by acquiring someone that was better than 1990 Pippen on both sides of the ball (04' and 05' Hughes).. Stats in previous post above.
In the .modern era the bolded is often referred to as empty stats, not domination. He was getting smashed immediately upon entering the postseason until his teams were head and shoulders superior to those he faced. I beleive that one is what you always squawk about LeBron doing, well, he had an awesome example to build upon. Oh and just because you need to hear it everytime you post, putting Hughes name in a debate with Pippen as a co-star is lunacy, quit being a dumb****.

[3ba11]

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.
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From Sports Illustrated:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-24-2025/EOpni2.gif

https://vault.si.com/vault/2005/08/15/how-larry-got-to-cleveland




In the .modern era the bolded is often referred to as empty stats, not domination. He was getting smashed immediately upon entering the postseason until his teams were head and shoulders superior to those he faced. I beleive that one is what you always squawk about LeBron doing, well, he had an awesome example to build upon. Oh and just because you need to hear it everytime you post, putting Hughes name in a debate with Pippen as a co-star is lunacy, quit being a dumb****.


It's only "empty stats" if you have reasonable cast and lose.

Otoh, it's just "carrying" if you have no cast and lose.

So Lebron is the empty-stat GOAT by having losing records with every type of good cast, such as preseason favorites (3-4), all-star teammates (4-8), 1 or 2 seeds (4-5), and Finals teams (4-6).

Meanwhile, MJ is undefeated in all of these scenarios.. The only exception is that he's "only" 6-2 with all-star teammates, due to the baseball year and the "migraine" year.

Btw, Hughes was a major free agent that Lebron recruited - he was a 22/6/5 1st team defender with superior PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, scoring, efficiency and assists than 1990 Pippen... He had 2 good years alongside Arenas and was entering his prime... Unfortunately, Lebron's skillset of turning everyone into spot-up shooter simply destroyed Hughes just like Ingram, Westbrook, Jamison, Love and many more were destroyed the same way... I remember you laughing the same way when I said Ingram was an all-star but Lebron was holding him back... You were wrong then too, and it's because you don't understand Lebron's game - he turns everyone into spot-up shooter, which prevents development, elite roster construction, chemistry and great teams.

[RRR3]

Exactly the worst spokesperson of all time for any brand ive ever seen. He laps the field. Plot twist would be 3ball is Maverick Carter.
Or Rich Paul.

[sdot_thadon]

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From Sports Illustrated:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-24-2025/EOpni2.gif

https://vault.si.com/vault/2005/08/15/how-larry-got-to-cleveland






It's only "empty stats" if you have reasonable cast and lose.

Otoh, it's just "carrying" if you have no cast and lose.

So Lebron is the empty-stat GOAT by having losing records with every type of good cast, such as preseason favorites (3-4), all-star teammates (4-8), 1 or 2 seeds (4-5), and Finals teams (4-6).

Meanwhile, MJ is undefeated in all of these scenarios.. The only exception is that he's "only" 6-2 with all-star teammates, due to the baseball year and the "migraine" year.

Btw, Hughes was a major free agent that Lebron recruited - he was a 22/6/5 1st team defender with superior PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, scoring, efficiency and assists than 1990 Pippen... He had 2 good years alongside Arenas and was entering his prime... Unfortunately, Lebron's skillset of turning everyone into spot-up shooter simply destroyed Hughes just like Ingram, Westbrook, Jamison, Love and many more were destroyed the same way... I remember you laughing the same way when I said Ingram was an all-star but Lebron was holding him back... You were wrong then too, and it's because you don't understand Lebron's game - he turns everyone into spot-up shooter, which prevents development, elite roster construction, chemistry and great teams.

That same sports illustrated establishment also put in this in print Jordan's rookie year

"Jordan has even been accorded that most hallowed acknowledgment of NBA stardom: The refs are letting him travel,".:rolleyes:

Honestly whether or not its empty stats just depends on whether you're a crusty ass hater or not. I just brought it up to provoke chapter 1,523,445 of your book you've been writing online all these years.

Lastly nobody is ever giving you a serious reply with this Larry Hughes shit, its ****ing stupid. I have a hard time believing any adult that got to see the 90s live can say the name Larry Hughes in your head and think it sounds good enough to compare him with Pippen, a legend and perennial all nba and all defensive standout....and then have the audacity to post it like it isn't remedial level thinking. All these posts and still trash af.

[3ba11]

That same sports illustrated establishment also put in this in print Jordan's rookie year
:rolleyes:

Honestly whether or not its empty stats just depends on whether you're a crusty ass hater or not. I just brought it up to provoke chapter 1,523,445 of your book you've been writing online all these years.

Lastly nobody is ever giving you a serious reply with this Larry Hughes shit, its ****ing stupid. I have a hard time believing any adult that got to see the 90s live can say the name Larry Hughes in your head and think it sounds good enough to compare him with Pippen, a legend and perennial all nba and all defensive standout....and then have the audacity to post it like it isn't remedial level thinking. All these posts and still trash af.


I've gotten hundreds of responses regarding Larry Hughes because it's a great point - Lebron was gifted a ready-made Pippen but turned him into spot-up shooter just like Ingram, Westbrook, Love and many more.. Heck, people actually think Love wasn't a good player thanks to Lebron.. Ditto Hughes, Bosh, Westbrook and others - Lebron's skillset of making guys stand in the corner made a lot of guys look bad.

And today's player travels legally thanks to Jordan making the gather-step legal in the mid-80's... Literally... My next thread will show gifs of MJ and others to prove that MJ spearheaded all the footwork/traveling that we see today

[sdot_thadon]

I've gotten hundreds of responses regarding Larry Hughes because it's a great point - Lebron was gifted a ready-made Pippen but turned him into spot-up shooter just like Ingram, Westbrook, Love and many more.. Heck, people actually think Love wasn't a good player thanks to Lebron.. Ditto Hughes, Bosh, Westbrook and others - Lebron's skillset of making guys stand in the corner made a lot of guys look bad.

And today's player travels legally thanks to Jordan making the gather-step legal in the mid-80's... Literally... My next thread will show gifs of MJ and others to prove that MJ spearheaded all the footwork/traveling that we see today

You're also the king of misinterpreting responses to your foolishness. Nobody responds because you make great points, they respond because its fun to hit a piñata with a stick. They literally line up in threads just to splatter you and your weak arguments in one or two lines. I guess you get an A for drawing particpation, but tragically pathetic in every other sense.

[3ba11]

You're also the king of misinterpreting responses to your foolishness. Nobody responds because you make great points, they respond because its fun to hit a piñata with a stick. They literally line up in threads just to splatter you and your weak arguments in one or two lines. I guess you get an A for drawing particpation, but tragically pathetic in every other sense.


2005 Hughes was the minimum that Jordan won with:.


05' HUGHES......... 21.6 PER... 4.3 BPM... 0.157 WS/48... 3.7 VORP.... 22/6/5 and 2.9 spg... 1st Team Defense
93' PIPPEN........... 19.2 PER... 4.0 BPM... 0.132 WS/48... 4.7 VORP.... 19/8/6 and 2.1 spg... 1st Team Defense





You're also the king of misinterpreting responses to your foolishness. Nobody responds because you make great points, they respond because its fun to hit a piñata with a stick. They literally line up in threads just to splatter you and your weak arguments in one or two lines. I guess you get an A for drawing particpation, but tragically pathetic in every other sense.


1990 is important because it shows that Lebron started with better help than Jordan on both sides of the ball (below), yet Jordan still beat him to titles:



09' MO WILLIAMS.......... 17.2 PER... 0.165 WS/48... 3.1 VORP... 2.3 BPM...... #3 team defense
90' PIPPEN.................... 16.3 PER... 0.087 WS/48... 3.0 VORP... 1.8 BPM.... #19 team defense

06' ZYDRUNAS'.............. 21.9 PER... 0.184 WS/48... 2.1 VORP... 1.6 BPM.... #11 team defense
90' PIPPEN.................... 16.3 PER... 0.087 WS/48... 3.0 VORP... 1.8 BPM.... #19 team defense



Jamison and the aforementioned Hughes were also better than 1990 Pippen, so Lebron was gifted 4 guys that were better than 1990 Pippen... Unfortunately, his skillset of turning guys into spot-up shooter couldn't develop them into champions like MJ did with Pippen.

To summarize, Lebron had better help on both sides of the ball in 2009 than Jordan did in 1990, yet Jordan still beat him to titles by winning in 91', while Lebron lost as the favorite for 3 straight years (09-11')... By acquiring Hughes, Lebron was gifted his "pippen" but Lebron's skillset turned him into spot-up shooter and destroyed him just like Ingram, Westbrook, Love and others.. For example, most people think Love is a weak player after sacrificing his prime for "bron-ball"... This is what happened to Hughes.