Would you rank Draymond Green higher than Dennis Rodman on the all-time list?

[1987_Lakers]

Draymond
4x NBA Champion
2x All-NBA
4x All-Star
9x All-Defensive Team
2016-17 DPOY
2016-17 Steals Champion
Greatest passing power forward in NBA History

Rodman
5x NBA Champion
2x All-NBA
2x All-Star
8x All-Defensive Team
2x DPOY
7x Rebounding Champion
Greatest rebounder in NBA History

[Baller234]

Not taking anything away from Draymond but I think Rodman in his prime gave your team the greater edge. He was a real hell raiser. A unique kind of crazy. The absolute last guy you want to be up against.

Putting him with Jordan was almost unfair.

[L.Kizzle]

Not a right or wrong answer tho everyone will say Rodman.
Rodman not running no point-forward tho.

[L.Kizzle]

Chicago Bull Rodman was really overrated. Bull would likely have won with Tyrone Hill in his slot.

[Meticode]

Rodman. Greatest rebounder of all time playing in the most physical era against big men that had several inches and pounds on him. For how crazy he was, he was equally as tough.

Rodman was his own entity. No system was needed for him to thrive. Draymond to me is a product of the Warriors system with Curry.

[Full Court]

That's actually a tough one. Impact-wise, they're comparable. However, Draymond isn't the best at anything. Rodman was flat out the best rebounder. I'd have to give Rodman the nod.

[1987_Lakers]

Chicago Bull Rodman was really overrated. Bull would likely have won with Tyrone Hill in his slot.

'96 Rodman was a beast.

'97 & '98 Rodman, not so much. At least in the playoffs. Was coming off the bench alot during those runs. Malone was cooking him in the '97 Finals. Was also benched in '98 for missing practice. It was obvious Rodman didn't take the game that serious after 1996. He was pretty much a disaster for both Finals vs Utah.

[ImKobe]

Draymond had more impact on the outcome of the game IMO. Rodman was a great defender and a rebounder but Dray's also a great defender but in his prime also had a lot of impact on the offense as a playmaker and as a scorer.

Accolades-wise it's really close but I'd take Dray.

[John8204]

Dennis is an all-timer and Draymond isn't. Green is going into the Hall of fame but he's basically Rodman's teammate Joe Dumars. I don't think you would rank either player in the top twenty..so that's the difference.

[1987_Lakers]

I posted this thread on realgm as well, by far the best response I got so far....




Rodman had 2 super powers: man-to-man defense and rebounding. He's a strange player because he is myopically focused on just these two things and tends to ignore the rest of the sport. He wasn't a good off-ball defender. He likely could have been an elite one with his insane physical tools, but he was just so locked into man-to-man defense he didn't care that much about making plays off the ball. On offense, he lived to attack the o-boards and do little else.

Draymond may not have a single superpower on the level of Rodman's man-to-man defense or rebounding, but Draymond is simply... better at everything else. He's a off-ball defense god. Insane defensive awareness and iq, packed into a really strong body with good mobility, elite length, and bear claw hands. On offense, he brings the same toughness and IQ. He has basically no scoring tools. A janky, hunched 3-point shot that he sometimes hits. Very little touch inside the arc. He only scores when he's left open or does something sneaky. Man be sneaky, tho! His strength and hands give him a functional handle, and he's performed excellently as a playmaker collaborating with movement shooters. People diss Draymond's offense because of the weak scoring, but few NBA players could do Draymond's offensive role. His passing is legitimately very good.

Rodman is so much cooler, imo. Wild, eccentric party animal, though sort of anti-social within the NBA. Married Madonna, wore a dress to the wedding. The shenanigans were elite. Draymond's personality is more of an overbearing, bully troll. Draymond is cornier with his obvious attempts to grow his brand.

I have Draymond 42nd and Rodman 67th.

[Meticode]

I posted this thread on realgm as well, by far the best response I got so far....




Rodman had 2 super powers: man-to-man defense and rebounding. He's a strange player because he is myopically focused on just these two things and tends to ignore the rest of the sport. He wasn't a good off-ball defender. He likely could have been an elite one with his insane physical tools, but he was just so locked into man-to-man defense he didn't care that much about making plays off the ball. On offense, he lived to attack the o-boards and do little else.

Draymond may not have a single superpower on the level of Rodman's man-to-man defense or rebounding, but Draymond is simply... better at everything else. He's a off-ball defense god. Insane defensive awareness and iq, packed into a really strong body with good mobility, elite length, and bear claw hands. On offense, he brings the same toughness and IQ. He has basically no scoring tools. A janky, hunched 3-point shot that he sometimes hits. Very little touch inside the arc. He only scores when he's left open or does something sneaky. Man be sneaky, tho! His strength and hands give him a functional handle, and he's performed excellently as a playmaker collaborating with movement shooters. People diss Draymond's offense because of the weak scoring, but few NBA players could do Draymond's offensive role. His passing is legitimately very good.

Rodman is so much cooler, imo. Wild, eccentric party animal, though sort of anti-social within the NBA. Married Madonna, wore a dress to the wedding. The shenanigans were elite. Draymond's personality is more of an overbearing, bully troll. Draymond is cornier with his obvious attempts to grow his brand.

I have Draymond 42nd and Rodman 67th.

The fact he has Draymond and Rodman numerically ranked tells me this man dreams about basketball discussions when he sleeps. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Baller234]

The fact he has Draymond and Rodman numerically ranked tells me this man dreams about basketball discussions when he sleeps. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

The fact that he has Draymond ranked as the 42nd best player of all time could also be an indication he smokes crack.

[Meticode]

The fact that he has Draymond ranked as the 42nd best player of all time could also be an indication he smokes crack.

I could care less about where he ranks players. He could rank him at #1 for all I care. I don't get into those meaningless discussions any longer.

[1987_Lakers]

The fact that he has Draymond ranked as the 42nd best player of all time could also be an indication he smokes crack.

:oldlol:

Anyways, Draymond was ranked #51 and Rodman #78 in a 2023 list from realgm, which is funny because Rodman is currently killing Draymond in my poll on that site.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2301069

I will say Draymond was great defensively this season for the Warriors, seems like he hasn't slowed down at all on that end even though he's in his mid 30's.

[Baller234]

I could care less about where he ranks players. He could rank him at #1 for all I care. I don't get into those meaningless discussions any longer.

Okay fine you don't have to get bogged down in specific number rankings but it's not a stretch to be able to say Draymond is nowhere near the top 50.

[Meticode]

Okay fine you don't have to get bogged down in specific number rankings but it's not a stretch to be able to say Draymond is nowhere near the top 50.

I could care less.

[1987_Lakers]

"Rodman was a terrible foul shooter to the point it hurt his teams. He had almost no offensive game outside of offensive rebounding. Their gap on offense is far too big.

I've been reading through the thread looking for an argument for Rodman and nobody has yet laid out a good one. As others also pointed out, Rodman was laser focused on man defense and as such we never really saw any elite off ball rotations where he offered real rim protections. This alone greatly reduces his advantages on defense from those rebounds.

And we haven't even gotten into that Dray's live dribble is good and when left alone he's fairly decent at driving to the rim, which adds pressure."

[tpols]

Triple single dray or the GOAT rebounder / defensive player. Teams don't guard either of them. Drays left wide open outside all the time, and without Curry as a super elite assist target his performances have been frankly terrible, especially on offense. Rodmans value was portable to multiple championship teams with different styles and players and coaches.

[Baller234]

"Rodman was a terrible foul shooter to the point it hurt his teams. He had almost no offensive game outside of offensive rebounding. Their gap on offense is far too big.

I've been reading through the thread looking for an argument for Rodman and nobody has yet laid out a good one. As others also pointed out, Rodman was laser focused on man defense and as such we never really saw any elite off ball rotations where he offered real rim protections. This alone greatly reduces his advantages on defense from those rebounds.

And we haven't even gotten into that Dray's live dribble is good and when left alone he's fairly decent at driving to the rim, which adds pressure."

You can't compare the way Rodman plays defense to the way Dray plays defense. The spacing on offense is too different. In Rodman's era you had to be focused on man defense because you weren't allowed to play zone. They're not being given the same assignments. So let's just say they were both elite defensive players during their day and leave it at that.

Dray plays in an equal opportunity offense where anyone can be "the guy" on any given night. Wasn't like that in the 90's. Dray is not running point or taking 4 threes a game on the Bulls. He would have to adapt to some other role. Okay granted he's still a better scorer than Rodman but he's not nothing special in the grand scheme of things.

What Rodman brings to the team is special. He led the league in ORPG for 7 straight years. Some years he averaged 6 a game. That means on a good night he could have 10. That's 20 extra possessions created on offense alone.

Dray would probably resemble what we saw with Horace Grant, but everyone knows the Bulls were better with Rodman. He was an X factor and a real 1 of 1.

[1987_Lakers]

You can't compare the way Rodman plays defense to the way Dray plays defense. The spacing on offense is too different. In Rodman's era you had to be focused on man defense because you weren't allowed to play zone. They're not being given the same assignments. So let's just say they were both elite defensive players during their day and leave it at that.

Dray plays in an equal opportunity offense where anyone can be "the guy" on any given night. Wasn't like that in the 90's. Dray is not running point or taking 4 threes a game on the Bulls. He would have to adapt to some other role. Okay granted he's still a better scorer than Rodman but he's not nothing special in the grand scheme of things.

What Rodman brings to the team is special. He led the league in ORPG for 7 straight years. Some years he averaged 6 a game. That means on a good night he could have 10. That's 20 extra possessions created on offense alone.

Dray would probably resemble what we saw with Horace Grant, but everyone knows the Bulls were better with Rodman. He was an X factor and a real 1 of 1.

I see what you are saying, but the fact that there wasn't zone in the 90's doesn't mean you can't provide off-ball/help defense. Jordan himself was known for his off-ball defense, disrupting passing lanes with steals and coming out of nowhere for a block (more so in his early years with a block). The fact that Dennis Rodman is an inch taller and a better athlete than Draymond, yet Draymond is a known rim protector while Rodman wasn't is telling. Rodman was pretty non existent as a shot blocker with his time with the Spurs/Bulls which is kind of surprising, this tells me he wasn't offering much help, just focused on defending his assignment.

And comparing Grant to Draymond is comical. They were two very different players. Grant wishes he had the versatility Draymond had.

[jayfan]

Chicago Bull Rodman was really overrated.


Yet that's the Rodman everyone has in their heads when they write about him on these boards. Folks really need to introduce themselves to Detroit Pistons Rodman before declaring things like, "terrible help defender", "useless on offense other than rebounding". Really cringy stuff. Education is your friend.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNYQrVW3aZQ

[HoopsNY]

This is one of those cases where the team dynamics determine who you would want (or really need). Put it this way, who is a better fit for the Warriors in 2015 or 2016? The answer is Draymond.

But who is a better fit for Chicago in say '96 or '97? The answer is Rodman. One might make the argument that Draymond fit better in '98 when Pippen was out, and I'd be okay with that.

It really just depends on what you need. Rodman on Detroit was probably a better fit than someone like Draymond.

[Baller234]

I see what you are saying, but the fact that there wasn't zone in the 90's doesn't mean you can't provide off-ball/help defense. Jordan himself was known for his off-ball defense, disrupting passing lanes with steals and coming out of nowhere for a block (more so in his early years with a block). The fact that Dennis Rodman is an inch taller and a better athlete than Draymond, yet Draymond is a known rim protector while Rodman wasn't is telling. Rodman was pretty non existent as a shot blocker with his time with the Spurs/Bulls which is kind of surprising, this tells me he wasn't offering much help, just focused on defending his assignment.

And comparing Grant to Draymond is comical. They were two very different players. Grant wishes he had the versatility Draymond had.

Don't get caught up in the style of play comparison. What I'm saying is half the things the Warriors rely on Dray for would not be a factor if he played for the Bulls in the 90's. He's not running point on that team because they have Jordan and Pippen.

He's not really bringing anything special or unique to the table. He's not some exceptional scorer.

[1987_Lakers]

This is one of those cases where the team dynamics determine who you would want (or really need). Put it this way, who is a better fit for the Warriors in 2015 or 2016? The answer is Draymond.

But who is a better fit for Chicago in say '96 or '97? The answer is Rodman. One might make the argument that Draymond fit better in '98 when Pippen was out, and I'd be okay with that.

It really just depends on what you need. Rodman on Detroit was probably a better fit than someone like Draymond.

Peak Draymond would have made the Bulls better in '97 & '98 over Rodman.

[GOBB]

Draymond being considered the greatest passing PF ever is hilarious. Especially when many people say he does nothing great but does everything really good. I guess because Rodman was considered the greatest rebounder ever gotta give Draymond something huh.

Anyway, I’m more or less going to lean to Draymond considering his well rounded game. Whether Rodman had more than meets the eye? I can only go by what he showed. Both are equally impactful however. And I would take Rodman ten times out of ten if I had to pick between the two.

[GOBB]

This is one of those cases where the team dynamics determine who you would want (or really need). Put it this way, who is a better fit for the Warriors in 2015 or 2016? The answer is Draymond.

But who is a better fit for Chicago in say '96 or '97? The answer is Rodman. One might make the argument that Draymond fit better in '98 when Pippen was out, and I'd be okay with that.

It really just depends on what you need. Rodman on Detroit was probably a better fit than someone like Draymond.

Very true. Good post

[StrongLurk]

Draymond is much better for NBA ball over the last 15-20 years. Rodman is better before then.

[1987_Lakers]

Draymond being considered the greatest passing PF ever is hilarious. Especially when many people say he does nothing great but does everything really good. I guess because Rodman was considered the greatest rebounder ever gotta give Draymond

Highest ever APG for a power forward, but it’s “hilarious” for him to be considered the greatest passer. Yea, ok bud.

Draymond had a playoff run where he averaged close to 9 apg, no other power forward came close. And I’m labeling LeBron and Bird as small forwards.

[HoopsNY]

Peak Draymond would have made the Bulls better in '97 & '98 over Rodman.

Yea, possibly. But peak Rodman probably is an upgrade over himself circa '97 and '98, too, is probably a better fit than Draymond.

[GOBB]

Highest ever APG for a power forward, but it’s “hilarious” for him to be considered the greatest passer. Yea, ok bud.

Draymond had a playoff run where he averaged close to 9 apg, no other power forward came close. And I’m labeling LeBron and Bird as small forwards.

Here you go kid. Try the word “arguably”. Might sound better. You proclaiming him as the greatest passing Pf ever? Hilarious as I said. Every sentiment is Draymond didn’t do anything exceptionally well when discussing his all around game. Guess they forgot he’s only the goat passer. Roffles smh

[GOBB]

Yea, possibly. But peak Rodman probably is an upgrade over himself circa '97 and '98, too, is probably a better fit than Draymond.

Exactly

[tpols]

Yet that's the Rodman everyone has in their heads when they write about him on these boards. Folks really need to introduce themselves to Detroit Pistons Rodman before declaring things like, "terrible help defender", "useless on offense other than rebounding". Really cringy stuff. Education is your friend.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNYQrVW3aZQ

I dont think people realize what freak athletic talent Dennis was compared to Dray. Dray averages 1 offensive rebound per game. Rodman used to pull 6 of those down a game and he had some Finals performances where he literally single handedly won his team the game and maybe series with his rebounding.

And hes a better defender. The only thing Dray does better than him really is dribble. Drays passing is totally dependant on Curry being in the game and basically spoonfeeding him while he runs his laps. Dray wouldn't even touch 3 apg in the 90s. He wouldn't have the GOAT shooter to hand the ball off too and create all the action.

And in an iso centric environment his offense would be totally exposed because he has no bag. Rodmans all time best offensive rebounding is more valuable than drays dribbling and passing.

[Carbine]

Rodman is the ultimate player when it comes to non scoring things on the basketball court.

Id consider Draymond top 5 in that list as well, but Rodman is the best.

Rodman was the only guy to take FMVP votes off MJ. Enough said.

[SouBeachTalents]

I dont think people realize what freak athletic talent Dennis was compared to Dray. Dray averages 1 offensive rebound per game. Rodman used to pull 6 of those down a game and he had some Finals performances where he literally single handedly won his team the game and maybe series with his rebounding.

And hes a better defender. The only thing Dray does better than him really is dribble. Drays passing is totally dependant on Curry being in the game and basically spoonfeeding him while he runs his laps. Dray wouldn't even touch 3 apg in the 90s. He wouldn't have the GOAT shooter to hand the ball off too and create all the action.

And in an iso centric environment his offense would be totally exposed because he has no bag. Rodmans all time best offensive rebounding is more valuable than drays dribbling and passing.
From 2015-2019, in games Dray played and Steph didn't, Dray averaged 7.3 assists over 23 regular season games and 8.2 assists over 13 playoff games. You can try to dismiss the number of games, but that's enough of a sample size to show he was still dishing out assists at an elite level for his position without Steph playing.

[GOBB]

Draymond Green has averaged 7.9 points, 6.7 rebounds and 5.9 assists in 126 games for the Warriors without Stephen Curry in his career

Just a little search

[tpols]

^^^

Mr. triple single by those numbers. :oldlol: I don't even want to know what his %s are there too.

The rebounding advantage Rodman has is ridiculous though. Theyre basically the same size physically but its a cataclysmic size gap in ability.

[ImKobe]

Just a little search

But what about when Steph got injured in the 2016 Playoffs and he averaged 19/11/8/1/2 from the 2nd to the 8th game of the POs? Or the Game 7 in the Finals where he had 32/15/9/2 which they would've won if any other starter had an average game?

What about 2019 when KD got injured and he averaged 17/12/9/2/3 in the WCF and 13/11/9/2/1 in the Finals?

What about 2017 when he averaged 13/9/7/2/2 and shot better than Klay from 3 (41% on 4.6 3PA) for that title run?

How many times did Rodman step it up offensively in the POs? He never averaged even 12 ppg for a series. He played 35 series and averaged double-digit points just 4 times. Even rebounding-wise he didn't average 10+ rebounds in 19 out of his 35 series.

Dray gets underrated if anything. A lot of people just hate him because of his antics. There's more moments of him stepping up in the POs than him stinking it up. Even in series where he wasn't that good offensively he'd have a big close-out/elimination game. His production is better across the board from his RS numbers to the POs, raw or advanced.

[1987_Lakers]

People here arguing Draymond benefited from playing with Steph, but ignoring that Rodman wouldn’t be half as remembered if he didn’t play for the Bad Boys and MJ.

Rodman was a damn near cancer for a good chunk of teams after he left Detroit, that includes Chicago towards the end of his run there.

[GOBB]

But what about when Steph got injured in the 2016 Playoffs and he averaged 19/11/8/1/2 from the 2nd to the 8th game of the POs? Or the Game 7 in the Finals where he had 32/15/9/2 which they would've won if any other starter had an average game?

What about 2019 when KD got injured and he averaged 17/12/9/2/3 in the WCF and 13/11/9/2/1 in the Finals? Avg 6apg without Curry is good. Dray is naturally a good passer. Ultimate glue guy, high IQ (imo). And I don’t like Draymond (on the court). Off the court he’s cool

What about 2017 when he averaged 13/9/7/2/2 and shot better than Klay from 3 (41% on 4.6 3PA) for that title run?

How many times did Rodman step it up offensively in the POs? He never averaged even 12 ppg for a series. He played 35 series and averaged double-digit points just 4 times. Even rebounding-wise he didn't average 10+ rebounds in 19 out of his 35 series.

Dray gets underrated if anything. A lot of people just hate him because of his antics. There's more moments of him stepping up in the POs than him stinking it up. Even in series where he wasn't that good offensively he'd have a big close-out/elimination game. His production is better across the board from his RS numbers to the POs, raw or advanced.

I didn’t post those stats to dispute your claim. It was because someone thought Dray benefits greatly passing to curry.

[ImKobe]

I didn’t post those stats to dispute your claim. It was because someone thought Dray benefits greatly passing to curry.

My bad, but for real anyone trying to cite Dray's stats or lack of success without Steph on the court needs to go through all his Playoff runs because he's been an awesome performer.

[diamenz]

rodman was a criminally underrated passer and an invaluable asset to that triangle offense. his iq and awareness was off the charts. not to mention the mind games he'd play to get under his defender's skin. that shit alone was invaluable in the eighties & nineties because he'd be defending legendary pf's and c's.

this doesn't take anything away from dray but i'd take rodman first if i were building a team. both of them transcend their eras. what i wonder is how green well green would have been able to handle shaq, malone, barkley and all of the rest.

[1987_Lakers]

But what about when Steph got injured in the 2016 Playoffs and he averaged 19/11/8/1/2 from the 2nd to the 8th game of the POs? Or the Game 7 in the Finals where he had 32/15/9/2 which they would've won if any other starter had an average game?

What about 2019 when KD got injured and he averaged 17/12/9/2/3 in the WCF and 13/11/9/2/1 in the Finals?

What about 2017 when he averaged 13/9/7/2/2 and shot better than Klay from 3 (41% on 4.6 3PA) for that title run?

How many times did Rodman step it up offensively in the POs? He never averaged even 12 ppg for a series. He played 35 series and averaged double-digit points just 4 times. Even rebounding-wise he didn't average 10+ rebounds in 19 out of his 35 series.

Dray gets underrated if anything. A lot of people just hate him because of his antics. There's more moments of him stepping up in the POs than him stinking it up. Even in series where he wasn't that good offensively he'd have a big close-out/elimination game. His production is better across the board from his RS numbers to the POs, raw or advanced.

Draymond was an absolute menace that series. Best I ever saw him play in his playoff career. Dominant on the defensive end while being the team's point guard while adding 16 PPG to boot.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIKoFxYJsKo

Rodman never had a series as dominant as this, just didn't have the versatility.

[SouBeachTalents]

Draymond was an absolute menace that series. Best I ever saw him play in his playoff career. Dominant on the defensive end while being the team's point guard while adding 16 PPG to boot.

Rodman never had a series as dominant as this, just didn't have the versatility.
Personally, I'd go with the 2016 Portland. Curry misses over half the series, and Dray proceeds to have games of

23/13/11


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kxcg-uq5kUE&ab_channel=NBAHighlights

37/9/8 with 8 3's


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGTvdyByGrY&ab_channel=ZHHighlights

21/9/5/4/7


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pafq2iVgEV4&ab_channel=NBAHighlights

[Axe]

Rodman got a finals mvp vote while green would've gotten his if the warriors didn't blow away their chances of winning the 2016 finals after being up 3-1.


'96 Rodman was a beast.

'97 & '98 Rodman, not so much. At least in the playoffs. Was coming off the bench alot during those runs. Malone was cooking him in the '97 Finals. Was also benched in '98 for missing practice. It was obvious Rodman didn't take the game that serious after 1996. He was pretty much a disaster for both Finals vs Utah.
Interesting. (https://i.ibb.co/gDsySW3/IMG-20230603-203842.jpg)

Just noticed the obsessed psychopath who posted above you never seems to stop his sore crotch from bleeding, which he fully expresses itb by whining about users he's sorely butthurt over the most.

[L.Kizzle]

Shawn Kemp was considered better than Dennis Rodman throughout the 1990's. When did things change?

[GOBB]

My bad, but for real anyone trying to cite Dray's stats or lack of success without Steph on the court needs to go through all his Playoff runs because he's been an awesome performer.

Nah you’re good. I can see how my post could have been mistaken in that way. I always likened Draymond to an ultimate glue guy. High IQ. While he may not stuff the stat sheet he seems to make the right play/plays. You made some really good points about him tho. I’m not a Draymond fan. He irks me (on the court). Off the court he’s likable. But can’t deny some of the things you laid out.

[1987_Lakers]

Here you go kid. Try the word “arguably”.

No

[GOBB]

lThe way my pride is set up I can’t


Oh ok

[1987_Lakers]

Oh ok

https://media1.tenor.com/m/pgqf6BDXADIAAAAd/the-office-steve-carell.gif

[gengiskhan]

Green is 50% of the player Rodman was.
Rodman can guard 1-5.
Rodman is the Top 3 NBA Defensive players ever. (Hakeem, Russell, Dennis, Wilt, Admiral ?)
Rodman is the Top 3 NBA Perimeter Defensive Players Ever. (Dennis, Sidney, MJ)

[1987_Lakers]

Green is 50% of the player Rodman was.
Rodman can guard 1-5.
Rodman is the Top 3 NBA Defensive players ever. (Hakeem, Russell, Dennis, Wilt, Admiral ?)
Rodman is the Top 3 NBA Perimeter Defensive Players Ever. (Dennis, Sidney, MJ)

Draymond is better at guarding 1-5.

[GOBB]

https://media1.tenor.com/m/pgqf6BDXADIAAAAd/the-office-steve-carell.gif

Still didn’t find where I made it a racial thing for Sanders not getting drafted til rd 5? I guess whenever your pride puts its vacation time in that’ll happen.

[1987_Lakers]

https://media.tenor.com/TE4a4jtPdlsAAAAM/old-man-yells-at-cloud-yelling.gif

:lol