'19 Kawhi, '11 Dirk, '09 Kobe, '06 Wade, '03 Duncan.... Add SGA to the list.

[Carbine]

He would join those guys as the only players post Jordan to win a title while outscoring the #2 option by 10+ points or more.

I remember a certain someone on this forum saying SGA would never win a title.... Well here he is doing something historic while likely winning a title. Yikes.

[SouBeachTalents]

LeBron did it in 2013 too.

I'm not disputing SGA is a great player, but there's just really something about his production that doesn't match the eye test. Granted, it's 2 games, but right now he's averaging a historic 36/5/6 with 4 steals on 60%TS in the Finals, but it just doesn't feel like I'm watching something that's at that level.

And while I wouldn't disagree if you thought otherwise, I don't think he's quite as good as the players mentioned in the OP. It could just be nostalgia, but that's my take away when watching him play.

[Meticode]

He's got to win it first buddy. On the other side of the coin this will be one of the biggest upsets in NBA history if the Thunder don't win it according to Vegas odds.

[ImKobe]

LeBron did it in 2013 too.

I'm not disputing SGA is a great player, but there's just really something about his production that doesn't match the eye test. Granted, it's 2 games, but right now he's averaging a historic 36/5/6 with 4 steals on 60%TS in the Finals, but it just doesn't feel like I'm watching something that's at that level.

And while I wouldn't disagree if you thought otherwise, I don't think he's quite as good as the players mentioned in the OP. It could just be nostalgia, but that's my take away when watching him play.

He doesn't have the same explosiveness as Kobe or Wade but he's just as good tbh. Doesn't have the highlights to match but he's a cold-blooded killer.

[gengiskhan]

'04 Kobe
'08 Kobe
'06 Dirk
'11 LBJ
'12 Durant
'13 Kawhi
'14 LBJ

[tpols]

LeBron did it in 2013 too.

I'm not disputing SGA is a great player, but there's just really something about his production that doesn't match the eye test. Granted, it's 2 games, but right now he's averaging a historic 36/5/6 with 4 steals on 60%TS in the Finals, but it just doesn't feel like I'm watching something that's at that level.

And while I wouldn't disagree if you thought otherwise, I don't think he's quite as good as the players mentioned in the OP. It could just be nostalgia, but that's my take away when watching him play.

Hes super skilled but not a great athlete. Kobe and Wade were two tiers above him in that regard.

The defenses and style of reffing he faces is super soft too. Like to see him vs Detroit or Boston where games ended in the 80s instead of the 110s and 120s.

[3ba11]

LeBron did it in 2013 too.

.


OP is talking about the championship level, aka Finals

Lebron never carried the scoring load on the championship level

you're referencing his Eastern run in 2013 when he faced 49-win teams or worse because he had diluted the conference, aka put the top 3 players in the East on 1 team

Since Finals appearances are conference-dependant in this way, only the championship level matters - you have to dominate the LEAGUE, not just your (manufactured) conference

[SouBeachTalents]

OP is talking about the championship level, aka Finals

Lebron never carried the scoring load on the championship level

you're referencing his Eastern run in 2013 when he faced 49-win teams or worse because he had diluted the conference, aka put the top 3 players in the East on 1 team

Since Finals appearances are conference-dependant in this way, only the championship level matters - you have to dominate the LEAGUE, not just your (manufactured) conference
He is absolutely talking about the playoffs, you just have to try to cherrypick the Finals to maintain your arbitrary, meaningless "criteria" :lol

If you want to specify the Finals, then Dirk & Kawhi get removed from the list since they both failed to outscore their 2nd option by 10 ppg in the Finals.

[3ba11]

He is absolutely talking about the playoffs, you just have to try to cherrypick the Finals to maintain your arbitrary, meaningless "criteria" :lol

If you want to specify the Finals, then Dirk & Kawhi get removed from the list since they both failed to outscore their 2nd option by 10 ppg in the Finals.


No actually, I'm referenced in the OP - I'm the source... I'm the one that came up with the "10 more than teammates", aka carrying the scoring load... 100% of my posts on the topic say "carrying the scoring load for the playoffs and Finals of a title run"

I can go back 10 years and pull posts that say this... It's all about defeating MAX defensive attention, which means championship level (carrying the scoring load on the championship level).

This is set in stone - it's always been championship level because that's the highest level and Finals appearances are conference-dependant.. Specifically, you keep referencing the 2013 Eastern run where the Heat didn't face a 50-win opponent and Lebron only needed 25 ppg to win the conference - the comp was this bad because Lebron diluted the conference by putting the top 3 players on 1 team.. This is why Finals appearances are conference-dependant, i.e. when the Heat faced their first real opponent in the Finals, Lebron needed an equal scoring partner like he always does against the best teams.

Ultimately, Lebron never carried the scoring load on the championship level, and he never carried weak help over top teams (never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring and efficiency from a sidekick.. There are reasons for this ... Specifically, Lebron's ball-dominance can't beat top teams at high scoring levels.. This inability to carry the "star" category of scoring requires GM's to get more stars and limits defensive help.. Accordingly, Lebron's inability to carry the scoring load prevents elite roster construction, while his aforementioned "ball-dominator" skillset of turning everyone into spot-up shooter further hampers roster construction

[ArbitraryWater]

No actually, I'm referenced in the OP - I'm the source... I'm the one that came up with the "10 more than teammates", aka carrying the scoring load...


:roll::roll::roll:


GOAT post

[3ba11]

.
.
Thread Cliffs


Lebron never carried the scoring load on the championship level (never defeated max defensive attention) and he never carried weak help over top teams (never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring and efficiency from a sidekick)..

There are reasons for this ... Specifically, Lebron's ball-dominance can't beat top teams at high scoring levels.. This inability to carry the "star" category of scoring requires GM's to get more stars and limits defensive help.. Accordingly, Lebron's inability to carry the scoring load prevents elite roster construction, while his "ball-dominator" skillset of turning everyone into spot-up shooter further hampers roster construction.

This weaker chemistry and roster construction is why he never produced great teams and has losing records with every type of good roster, such as preseason favorites (3-4), all-star teammates (4-7), 1 or 2 seeds (4-5), and Finals teams (4-6).

[ShawkFactory]

.
.
Thread Cliffs


Lebron

*Thread about SGA*

Thread Cliffs (8 posts in): Lebron!

:roll:

[Phoenix]

*Thread about SGA*

Thread Cliffs (8 posts in): Lebron!

:roll:

Not sure what that's a sign of, either the meds kicked in or he hasn't taken them yet.

[3ba11]

Not sure what that's a sign of, either the meds kicked in or he hasn't taken them yet.


The thread title excludes Lebron, which is why SouBeach first brought up Lebron itt.. He wanted to say that Lebron's Eastern run in 2013 against zero 50-win opponents (49-win Lance Stephenson Pacers) counted as "carrying the scoring load".. So I had to point out that carrying the scoring load only matters on the championship level, since merely making the Finals is conference-dependent - a player could luck out and land in a conference that 1-star teams are routinely winning (00's East), versus a conference that required a super-team and dynasty to win (80's East).

[Phoenix]

The thread title excludes Lebron, which is why SouBeach first brought up Lebron itt.. He wanted to say that Lebron's Eastern run in 2013 against zero 50-win opponents (49-win Lance Stephenson Pacers) counted as "carrying the scoring load".. So I had to point out that carrying the scoring load only matters on the championship level, since merely making the Finals is conference-dependent - a player could luck out and land in a conference that 1-star teams are routinely winning (00's East), versus a conference that required a super-team and dynasty to win (80's East).

He said one sentence 'Lebron did it too in 2013'. The rest of his post dealt with the thread topic...SGA. You're like a fukking bot programmed to respond to every instance the word 'Lebron' is mentioned. This isn't a Lebron topic. SBT's comment didn't make it a Lebron topic. You did, because you can't help yourself.

[ArbitraryWater]

The thread title excludes Lebron, which is why SouBeach first brought up Lebron itt.. He wanted to say that Lebron's Eastern run in 2013 against zero 50-win opponents (49-win Lance Stephenson Pacers) counted as "carrying the scoring load".. So I had to point out that carrying the scoring load only matters on the championship level, since merely making the Finals is conference-dependent - a player could luck out and land in a conference that 1-star teams are routinely winning (00's East), versus a conference that required a super-team and dynasty to win (80's East).

The 49 win Pacers played 1 less game @ Boston due to Marathon bombing.

[3ba11]

The 49 win Pacers played 1 less game @ Boston due to Marathon bombing.


the Pacers won 49 games, so the Heat had the weakest run to the Finals ever, and of course Lebron needed an equal-scoring partner against the first real team they faced in the Finals (20 ppg for Wade and 25 for Lebron)..

And you guys always praise lebron's "closeout games", but you ignore his bed-wetting for the first 4 games that necessitates the 7th game in the first place - this is what happened in the 08' ECSF, 13' Finals and 16' Finals - Lebron was horrific through 4 games each time, which required a 7th game... Accordingly, Lebron was horrible in the 13' Finals based on 16 on 39% for the first 3 games to get a 2-1 deficit, and the Heat not winning when he was on the floor (0 plus/minus for the series and negative net rating).. So who cares what he did against a weak East that he diluted by putting the top 3 players on 1 team.

[1987_Lakers]

the Pacers won 49 games, so the Heat had the weakest run to the Finals ever, and of course Lebron needed an equal-scoring partner against the first real team they faced in the Finals (20 ppg for Wade and 25 for Lebron)..

And you guys always praise lebron's "closeout games", but you ignore his bed-wetting for the first 4 games that necessitates the 7th game in the first place - this is what happened in the 08' ECSF, 13' Finals and 16' Finals - Lebron was horrific through 4 games each time, which required a 7th game... Accordingly, Lebron was horrible in the 13' Finals based on 16 on 39% for the first 3 games to get a 2-1 deficit, and the Heat not winning when he was on the floor (0 plus/minus for the series and negative net rating).. So who cares what he did against a weak East that he diluted by putting the top 3 players on 1 team.

You called that 2013 Indiana team as good as any 90's Knicks team

Back when someone exposed you for posting on another forum saying LeBron = MJ back in 2013

[3ba11]

You called that 2013 Indiana team as good as any 90's Knicks team

Back when someone exposed you for posting on another forum saying LeBron = MJ back in 2013


you can make up whatever you want - the 13' Pacers were a horrible team by every metric and this is public information.. so your deflecting gets you back to the same point - Lebron never carried the scoring load against top teams, such as Finals teams or top 5 SRS teams... Since he's too ball-dominant at high scoring levels and can't carry the scoring load vs top teams, he needs the most scoring help ever, i.e. Lebron is the only player in history that needed 2 franchise players from other teams to play 2nd and 3rd option on his team.

[3ba11]

.
.

09' Mo Will vs #4 SRS Magic'.............. 18 on 38%........ #3 team defense

89' Pippen' vs #1 SRS Cavs'................ 15 on 40%...... #11 team defense
96' Pippen' vs #2 SRS Sonics.............. 16 on 34%........ #1 team defense
97' Pippen' vs #4 SRS Heat'................ 16 on 39%........ #4 team defense
98' Pippen' vs #4 SRS Pacers.............. 17 on 39%........ #9 team defense
98' Pippen' vs #3 SRS Jazz'................. 16 on 41%........ #9 team defense

96-98' Pippen entire playoffs'.............. 18 on 41%........ #1, #4, #9 defenses



TLDR: Jordan always won with "mo williams" scoring and efficiency from Pippen and worse team defenses than the 09' Cavs had because Jordan could effectively carry the scoring load.

Otoh, Lebron never carried weak help over top teams because he never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick... He also never defeated max defensive attention (never carried the scoring load on the championship level).

Lebron is simply too ball-dominant at high scoring levels to beat top teams.. This inability to carry the "star" category of scoring requires GM's to get more stars and limits defensive help.. Accordingly, Lebron's inability to carry the scoring load prevents elite roster construction, while his "ball-dominator" skillset of turning everyone into spot-up shooter further hampers roster construction.

[ArbitraryWater]

the Pacers won 49 games

Yes, but this is because they only played 81 games.

[1987_Lakers]

you can make up whatever you want

You and I both know what I'm talking about.

[Da_Realist]

OP is talking about the championship level, aka Finals

Lebron never carried the scoring load on the championship level

you're referencing his Eastern run in 2013 when he faced 49-win teams or worse because he had diluted the conference, aka put the top 3 players in the East on 1 team

Since Finals appearances are conference-dependant in this way, only the championship level matters - you have to dominate the LEAGUE, not just your (manufactured) conference

:oldlol:

[AlternativeAcc.]

LeBron did it in 2013 too.

I'm not disputing SGA is a great player, but there's just really something about his production that doesn't match the eye test. Granted, it's 2 games, but right now he's averaging a historic 36/5/6 with 4 steals on 60%TS in the Finals, but it just doesn't feel like I'm watching something that's at that level.

And while I wouldn't disagree if you thought otherwise, I don't think he's quite as good as the players mentioned in the OP. It could just be nostalgia, but that's my take away when watching him play.

I think its easy to take for granted how good he is around the rim and midrange. He scores in the flow of the game, and has a calm smoothness to his game without the huge explosiveness or flash. Wade nor Kobe ever shot nearly as well from midrange as SGA, but obviously were much more flashy.

When you watch Chet or Jdub try to create offense you get a better appreciation for how good SGA truly is. He's just light-years better at creating than those guys and carries them in that regard consistently.

[3ba11]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-09-2025/uvWBVA.gif



In addition to being the goat scorer, Jordan is also the goat playmaker:



https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-09-2025/5Ygdnu.gif


Only Jordan won titles while scoring 3k points (except 2000 Shaq), and only Jordan won a title with 3k points and 600 assists.

Given Jordan's singular level of domination, why should anyone be surprised that he won 6 chips as the best player (twice as many as anyone else in 3-pointer history)???.. His caliber of domination is unmatched..

[Full Court]

OP is talking about the championship level, aka Finals

Lebron never carried the scoring load on the championship level

you're referencing his Eastern run in 2013 when he faced 49-win teams or worse because he had diluted the conference, aka put the top 3 players in the East on 1 team

Since Finals appearances are conference-dependant in this way, only the championship level matters - you have to dominate the LEAGUE, not just your (manufactured) conference

Did you know that Lebron has the most post season choke jobs of any player in NBA history? I have documented 45 games in the playoffs and finals in which Lebron pulled a choke job.