23-year old KD was on pace for GOAT but Lebron's decision stole his organic chip

[3ba11]

If KD carries Westbrick to a title in 2012, he would be the next "goat scorer" and the next "Jordan"..

By teaming up with opponents while peers toil away organically, Lebron ruined the competitive environment and stole organic chips from KD, Duncan and Curry

Imagine if Bird destroyed the golden 80's by teaming up with Magic - that's what Lebron did, and that's why he's hated

[John8204]

The 80's were literally about the two best PG's (Archibald/Magic) teaming with two best players (Kareem/Bird) with the only other winning team being a combo of Moses and Dr. J.

[Phoenix]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-05-2017/9djojK.gif

[SouBeachTalents]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9UiKJrV7v8&ab_channel=DreiSkins101

[Phoenix]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/tLBAZi1zVH5RQNDof03oXPIW3w9Jyas984XyHtIaMyPnU6ISe5 PV1Mdu1kN93M0GRFI4wiOAG1HA65VF8BBUFFVAlWcXQQCVGAUz 195o-LCJ2MFVsWm49TIIqa-ZIuQFnw

[3ba11]

Thread title should read that 23-year old KD was on pace for GOAT but Lebron's decision stole his organic chip with Westbrick

The mods are simply children with massive insecurity complex because they're small in stature and fell for a massive fraud in Lebron .. They're embarrassed about being defrauded and don't like it thrown in their face.

But when SGA goes down in flames, it will prove beyond any doubt that ball-dominators are trash players that can't win with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player - they need opposing 1st options and franchise players to play 2nd and 3td option for them.. This is why ball-dominators like Lebron, Luka and SGA can't be in the top 10 all-time - their skillset of turning everyone into spot-up shooter (bad chemistry) needs too much help (and still mostly loses). Carry on in ignorance

[ShawkFactory]

:roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Thread title should read that 23-year old KD was on pace for GOAT but Lebron's decision stole his organic chip with Westbrick

The mods are simply children with massive insecurity complex because they're small in stature and fell for a massive fraud in Lebron .. They're embarrassed about being defrauded and don't like it thrown in their face.

But when SGA goes down in flames, it will prove beyond any doubt that ball-dominators are trash players that can't win with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player - they need opposing 1st options and franchise players to play 2nd and 3td option for them.. This is why ball-dominators like Lebron, Luka and SGA can't be in the top 10 all-time - their skillset of turning everyone into spot-up shooter (bad chemistry) needs too much help (and still mostly loses). Carry on in ignorance

Someone's upset

[3ba11]

Someone's upset


Imagine if Bird destroyed the golden 80's by teaming up with Magic - that's what Lebron did, and that's why he's hated, and that's why I get upset.. It's understandable that when someone like Lebron ruins a sport - people will be upset

[1987_Lakers]

Imagine if Bird destroyed the golden 80's by teaming up with Magic - that's what Lebron did, and that's why he's hated, and that's why I get upset.. It's understandable that when someone like Lebron ruin a sport that people will be upset

You're telling me Bird didn't team up with Magic yet MJ somehow went 1-9 and got swept by Bird twice?

[Phoenix]

https://i.postimg.cc/44Y4VV6C/3nutball1.gif

[3ba11]

You're telling me Bird didn't team up with Magic yet MJ somehow went 1-9 and got swept by Bird twice?


Bird's team was like the 14' Spurs, while Jordan's team was like the 05' Cavs, but without the all-star center... And yet Jordan's lottery cast still played the Celtics closer than Lebron's defending champion super-team played the fossil Spurs in 2014... i.e. the 86' Bulls played the Celtics closer than the 14' Heat played the Spurs

[1987_Lakers]

Bird's team was like the 14' Spurs, while Jordan's team was like the 05' Cavs, but without the all-star center... And yet Jordan's lottery cast still played the Celtics closer than Lebron's defending champion super-team played the fossil Spurs in 2014... i.e. the 86' Bulls played the Celtics closer than the 14' Heat played the Spurs

They were down by 30 at one point in game 3 vs Boston in '86, lost by 19 in game 1. it wasn't close.

They were swept again the next year despite Boston having multiple injuries and MJ choked game 3 away

Game 3 of the 1987 first round.

Bird had 32/14/6 and hit for 15 fourth quarter points. A young MJ though struggled with his shooting and would get 30 points on only 9/30 shooting.

Bulls had a 7 point lead with 11 minutes left in the fourth. Celtics however went on a Bird-led run in the fourth and completed the sweep. Jordan shot 0/8 in the fourth

Thread cliffs: LeBron the GOAT

[SouBeachTalents]

They were down by 30 at one point in game 3 vs Boston in '86, lost by 19 in game 1. it wasn't close.

They were swept again the next year despite Boston having multiple injuries and MJ choked game 3 away

Game 3 of the 1987 first round.

Bird had 32/14/6 and hit for 15 fourth quarter points. A young MJ though struggled with his shooting and would get 30 points on only 9/30 shooting.

Bulls had a 7 point lead with 11 minutes left in the fourth. Celtics however went on a Bird-led run in the fourth and completed the sweep. Jordan shot 0/8 in the fourth

Thread cliffs: LeBron the GOAT
Jordan's career without Pippen is frankly embarrassing.

#notmyGOAT

[3ba11]

.
.
APPLES TO APPLES

Stats at 23 years old vs champion Celtics and #1 defense

LEBRON...... 26 on 35%..... 7-game series = great cast
JORDAN...... 44 on 50%..... blowout sweep = no cast




They were down by 30 at one point in game 3 vs Boston in '86, lost by 19 in game 1. it wasn't close.

They were swept again the next year despite Boston having multiple injuries and MJ choked game 3 away

Game 3 of the 1987 first round.

Bird had 32/14/6 and hit for 15 fourth quarter points. A young MJ though struggled with his shooting and would get 30 points on only 9/30 shooting.

Bulls had a 7 point lead with 11 minutes left in the fourth. Celtics however went on a Bird-led run in the fourth and completed the sweep. Jordan shot 0/8 in the fourth

Thread cliffs: LeBron the GOAT


^^^^ Lebron did that 589 times in his career, and he did it with super-teams and favorites, not 30-win teams during injury years (that no one thought he would return from).

In the history of the NBA, only MJ had to carry a 30-win team in the playoffs.

The cast was so bad that 63 points was required to make overtime in Game 2... Otoh, Lebron averaged 26 on 35% with 5 TO's against the 08' Celtics, but a great cast took the series to 7 games..

It's easy to forget that Lebron and Zydrunas became all-stars in 05', but they needed an acquisition that was better than 1990 Pippen to make the 06' Playoffs, along with a great coach.. To summarize, Lebron's teams needed 3 years of development and decorated veteran cast to make the playoffs, while Jordan made the playoffs in Year 1 with a lottery cast of nobodies - he also won 50 games in 88' with nothing.

[3ba11]

Jordan's career without Pippen is frankly embarrassing.

#notmyGOAT


Everyone's career is embarrassing for their first few years, such as lottery for Jokic, Lebron, Curry, Giannis, KD ,- basically anyone that didn't land on a decent team already

So you have no real critique of Jordan, since he only lost when everyone loses (as a young player)

[SouBeachTalents]

Everyone's career is embarrassing for their first few years, such as lottery for Jokic, Lebron, Curry, Giannis, KD ,- basically anyone that didn't land on a decent team already

So you have no real critique of Jordan, since he only lost when everyone loses (as a young player)
5 seasons without Pippen
5 losing seasons
3 first round exits
2 lotteries

Embarrassing. No other "GOAT" candidate has literally all his success tied to one player like Jordan does Pippen.

[gengiskhan]

Get this thru your head!

KD aint ever winning a ring ever with WestBRICK and his impulsive, choke worthy, clutch, TO and random, ugly, pull up jumpers and wild, out of control drives to the basket to shamlessly show off his athleticism and quickness.

KD did right. Took a page out of LBJs book. Formed his own SUPER TEAM. Beat the carp out of LBJ and won back-2-back rings with 2 FMVPs.

KD again cannot win anything with Harden, another, garbage, ballhog, shot jocking version like Kobe.

only duo, combo thats ever winning rings and probably even defending one with back-2-back titles is LBJ + KD combo. and this possible because both are "unselfish" ATGs despite both having choking habits like Kobe.

[gengiskhan]

5 seasons without Pippen
5 losing seasons
3 first round exits
2 lotteries

Embarrassing. No other "GOAT" candidate has literally all his success tied to one player like Jordan does Pippen.

Just waiting on to get a decent SIDEKICK
that can help, carry some EXTRA BAGGAGE
Pip was perfect Part time EQUIPMENT MANAGER to train right out of central arkansas
GOAT still needed to give some BEAT DOWN time to tome with some MIGRAINES here and there.
that that was needed from a decent SIDEKICK to run the table on the world with 6 Chips
GOAT wanted more. Even his own GM became the biggest opposition to 7th Chip and caused BREAK UP.

This kind of story can only be written in, fictional, Hollywood screenplay for a upcoming, crowd pleasing, blockbuster titled GOAT and his Part Time SIDEKICK.

[3ba11]

5 seasons without Pippen
5 losing seasons
3 first round exits
2 lotteries

Embarrassing. No other "GOAT" candidate has literally all his success tied to one player like Jordan does Pippen.


Jordan's career was always going to be tied to 1 player because he was good enough to be unbeatable with 1 all-star.. He's the only guy in history that never needed more all-stars... Yet you're punishing him for it... You're punishing him for being better than everyone else.. The fact that there's never been a bigger statistical gap between 1st and 2nd option than MJ/Pippen only further drives home the point.

You're also rewarding lesser achievement from every other player in history... No one won 6 titles and 6 FMVP regardless of cast... If no one can reach MJ's accomplishment regardless of cast, then that makes everyone objectively inferior to MJ..

Regardless of whether we look at Magic/Kareem, Lebron/Wade, Bird/McHale, etc, etc - no one could get 6 chips or even 1 three-peat, let alone 2... (I suppose Kobe/Shaq got 1).

You're also punishing MJ for winning with less, i.e. MJ won 6 Finals without a teammate getting FMVP or 25 ppg, while no one else won more than 2 Finals this way.

[gengiskhan]

Jordan's career was always going to be tied to 1 player because he was good enough to be unbeatable with 1 all-star.. He's the only guy in history that never needed more all-stars... Yet you're punishing him for it... You're punishing him for being better than everyone else.. The fact that there's never been a bigger statistical gap between 1st and 2nd option than MJ/Pippen only further drives home the point.

You're also rewarding lesser achievement from every other player in history... No one won 6 titles and 6 FMVP regardless of cast... If no one can reach MJ's accomplishment regardless of cast, then that objectively makes MJ the goat.

Regardless of whether we look at Magic/Kareem, Lebron/Wade, Bird/McHale, etc, etc - no one could get 6 chips or even 1 three-peat, let alone 2... (I suppose Kobe/Shaq got 1).

You're also punishing MJ for winning with less, i.e. MJ won 6 Finals without a teammate getting FMVP or 25 ppg, while no one else won more than 2 Finals this way.

PART TIME EQUIPMENT MANAGER from Central Arkansas was never good enough to even win ROTY let alone Season MVP, FMVP, DPOY.

Its beacuse of GOAT himself that this pathetic, envious, self loathing, wife cucholding to GOAT's son, even got to 50th ATG spot in 1997.

or else, DOMINIQUE has no reason to be out of NBA's Top 50 ATG in 1997 as a face of HAWK Franchise on accomplishments, individual accholades and competitive spirit.

Sidekick snuck in purely because of GOAT.

[dankok8]

"KD was on pace for GOAT"

WTF :facepalm

[3ba11]

"KD was on pace for GOAT"

WTF :facepalm


^^^ that assumes he wins the title with Westbrook in 2012 at 23 years old - it would be among the best young starts to a career ever.

\but unfortunately, his organic chip was stolen by collusion, LeCollude

And the larger point is that we can all imagine if Bird teamed up with Magic and destroyed the great competition of the golden 80's - what a travesty and a robbery of competition that would be... Yet that's what Lebron did, and that's why he's hated

[MrFonzworth]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-05-2017/9djojK.gif


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/tLBAZi1zVH5RQNDof03oXPIW3w9Jyas984XyHtIaMyPnU6ISe5 PV1Mdu1kN93M0GRFI4wiOAG1HA65VF8BBUFFVAlWcXQQCVGAUz 195o-LCJ2MFVsWm49TIIqa-ZIuQFnw

:roll::roll:

[1987_Lakers]

"KD was on pace for GOAT"

WTF :facepalm

:oldlol:

[ImKobe]

"KD was on pace for GOAT"

WTF :facepalm

If he pulled off a chip at that age he was headed towards GOAT trajectory. Coming off 3 scoring titles and averaging 30+ on elite efficiency in the POs it looked like he had a chance at doing something special.

He had a hell of a run, including the numbers he put up in the Finals. Looked absolutely unstoppable and as good as anyone at that age ever. Game 1 he had one of the best 4th quarters in Finals history and it looked like OKC were on their way to winning a title. Refs didn't call the obvious foul on Lebron which gave the Heat the win in Game 2, giving Miami a chance to close out the series at home under the old 2 - 3 - 2 format, and they did thanks to James Harden no-showing and putting up B2B 20%FG stinkers in games that were both winnable.

[ShawkFactory]

If he pulled off a chip at that age he was headed towards GOAT trajectory. Coming off 3 scoring titles and averaging 30+ on elite efficiency in the POs it looked like he had a chance at doing something special.

He had a hell of a run, including the numbers he put up in the Finals. Looked absolutely unstoppable and as good as anyone at that age ever. Game 1 he had one of the best 4th quarters in Finals history and it looked like OKC were on their way to winning a title. Refs didn't call the obvious foul on Lebron which gave the Heat the win in Game 2, giving Miami a chance to close out the series at home under the old 2 - 3 - 2 format, and they did thanks to James Harden no-showing and putting up B2B 20%FG stinkers in games that were both winnable.

Perhaps they could have won the title that year, and if so it would have been impressive but that was an extremely talented team. While young, they literally had 3 MVPS lol.

KD was as dynamic as it possibly gets obviously but he isn’t a leader and didn’t do the intangibles on the court to the same level as some of the other GOATs.

Hes a tough one to rank.

[ImKobe]

Perhaps they could have won the title that year, and if so it would have been impressive but that was an extremely talented team. While young, they literally had 3 MVPS lol.

KD was as dynamic as it possibly gets obviously but he isn’t a leader and didn’t do the intangibles on the court to the same level as some of the other GOATs.

Hes a tough one to rank.

They win a title that year and it probably sets off a domino effect where they keep Harden which means they probably win more with that core, and who knows maybe Harden & Russ never win MVPs as they keep the team together and win more titles.

[ShawkFactory]

They win a title that year and it probably sets off a domino effect where they keep Harden which means they probably win more with that core, and who knows maybe Harden & Russ never win MVPs as they keep the team together and win more titles.

Well no obviously if they’re all 3 on the same team then all 3 aren’t winning MVPs lol. That’s not how hierarchy works.

The point is that there were 3 MVP talents. Literally.

If anything I feel like it proved that having that many guys has diminishing returns.

[Phoenix]

They win a title that year and it probably sets off a domino effect where they keep Harden which means they probably win more with that core, and who knows maybe Harden & Russ never win MVPs as they keep the team together and win more titles.

Harden left because he wanted a bigger role and more money than OKC was willing to give him. Unless winning a title shifts management's perspective on how much to pay him and/or Harden willingly stays in a lesser role and less money to remain with a champion, I don't think this is the likely outcome. If anything winning a title, albeit in a supporting role, may have been even more incentive to see what his value would be on the market and wanting to be the man elsewhere. 'I'm the 6th man on a championship team, pay me!'.

[ImKobe]

Well no obviously if they’re all 3 on the same team then all 3 aren’t winning MVPs lol. That’s not how hierarchy works.

The point is that there were 3 MVP talents. Literally.

If anything I feel like it proved that having that many guys has diminishing returns.

Or that they actually needed each other. Aside from KD's GS years none of the 3 were on teams that had a better chance of winning the title than they did in 2012 really. Look at the lack of spacing in OKC from 2014-16 now imagine Harden on those teams.. they were close to getting there in '14 & '16 with no shooters around Durant. Thunder FO fumbled a potential dynasty.



Harden left because he wanted a bigger role and more money than OKC was willing to give him. Unless winning a title shifts management's perspective on how much to pay him and/or Harden willingly stays in a lesser role and less money to remain with a champion, I don't think this is the likely outcome. If anything winning a title, albeit in a supporting role, may have been even more incentive to see what his value would be on the market and wanting to be the man elsewhere. 'I'm the 6th man on a championship team, pay me!'.

Harden would've still been in OKC in 2013 if the Thunder didn't value Perkins as much as they did at the time. They traded him because they were too cheap to pay him and undervalued him. Obviously he wanted a bigger role but you make Russ and KD sacrifice a little for a better chance at a title and I think they figure that part out like Brooklyn did with the KD-Harden-Kyrie trio before injuries and COVID tore that team apart.


"My fourth year, it's on. Summertime, traded. A couple days before the first game," Harden said. "Two chips at least at the minimum... It was over four million dollars."

The actual number was 4.5 million. OKC straight up fumbled and that's without knowing how great Harden would end up being.

[Phoenix]

Harden would've still been in OKC in 2013 if the Thunder didn't value Perkins as much as they did at the time. They traded him because they were too cheap to pay him and undervalued him. Obviously he wanted a bigger role but you make Russ and KD sacrifice a little for a better chance at a title and I think they figure that part out like Brooklyn did with the KD-Harden-Kyrie trio before injuries and COVID tore that team apart.



The actual number was 4.5 million. OKC straight up fumbled and that's without knowing how great Harden would end up being.

The player you're 'making' sacrifice based on their role and style of play is 24 year old Russ, the same one who often made boneheaded late game decisions calling his own number over KD's. Durant's game and personality would have fit Harden into a bigger role fine, but that's a big ask of Westbrook. For all his flaws as a PG, at his best his effectiveness required that he control the ball and pace, and you're asking him to sacrifice that to satisfy Harden, who would have needed the ball in his hands as well to be effective. I mean there had to be efforts to 'make' Russ play a certain way before KD bounced.

I guess there's some best case scenario where that works out if you ignore the tendencies we saw from the players involved, but there's also the real possibility that young egos, clashing play-styles and personalities crash the entire thing. Like anything else, one will believe whatever concocted scenario fits into their argument.

[Meticode]

KD was on pace for GOAT

https://media.tenor.com/p9gTr-cbRwkAAAAM/cocaine-cocaines-a-hell-of-a-drug.gif

[ImKobe]

The player you're 'making' sacrifice based on their role and style of play is 24 year old Russ, the same one who often made boneheaded late game decisions calling his own number over KD's. Durant's game and personality would have fit Harden into a bigger role fine, but that's a big ask of Westbrook. For all his flaws as a PG, at his best his effectiveness required that he control the ball and pace, and you're asking him to sacrifice that to satisfy Harden, who would have needed the ball in his hands as well to be effective. I mean there had to be efforts to 'make' Russ play a certain way before KD bounced.

I guess there's some best case scenario where that works out if you ignore the tendencies we saw from the players involved, but there's also the real possibility that young egos, clashing play-styles and personalities crash the entire thing. Like anything else, one will believe whatever concocted scenario fits into their argument.

There definitely is a scenario where they figure it out. They didn't even have the chance to get to that point because the FO was cheap. You don't blow that core up over 4.5 million when you're coming off a Finals run. Look at how bad the scoring options were around Russ & KD in 2014 & 2016 when they lost in the WCF.

[Phoenix]

There definitely is a scenario where they figure it out. They didn't even have the chance to get to that point because the FO was cheap. You don't blow that core up over 4.5 million when you're coming off a Finals run. Look at how bad the scoring options were around Russ & KD in 2014 & 2016 when they lost in the WCF.

Sure there is, and there's definitely a scenario where they don't, which is my point and once again, which side of the line you'll fall depends on what argument you are pushing. You say you don't blow up a finals team over 4.5 million but that's what happened. You're pushing the idea that a 2012 title would have put KD onto a GOAT trajectory in line with what 3ball is saying. That's not a talking point I really feel strongly about one way or another to contest, but your complimenting points including the idea that they 'figure it out' and keep the team intact naturally has to fall in line with your core argument. It may be less about the teams willingness to spend the extra money and how much sacrifice Russ( in particular ) would have to make to accommodate a bigger role for Harden without compromising his own game. You have to realize that those guys teaming up at 30 when they were established MVP players is different from thinking those sacrifices are made and work out for the best when they're young players looking to create their own legacies as much as contribute to a team's success.

It's all highly speculative one way or another and not something needing multiple posts to go on about. Some of these 'what ifs' really amount to 'who cares' when they're un-provable hypotheticals. I know that's kind of what we do in sports, but it gets to a point pretty quickly where it becomes a circular conversation.

[ImKobe]

Sure there is, and there's definitely a scenario where they don't, which is my point and once again, which side of the line you'll fall depends on what argument you are pushing. You say you don't blow up a finals team over 4.5 million but that's what happened. You're pushing the idea that a 2012 title would have put KD onto a GOAT trajectory in line with what 3ball is saying. That's not a talking point I really feel strongly about one way or another to contest, but your complimenting points including the idea that they 'figure it out' and keep the team intact naturally has to fall in line with your core argument. It may be less about the teams willingness to spend the extra money and how much sacrifice Russ( in particular ) would have to make to accommodate a bigger role for Harden without compromising his own game. You have to realize that those guys teaming up at 30 when they were established MVP players is different from thinking those sacrifices are made and work out for the best when they're young players looking to create their own legacies as much as contribute to a team's success.

It's all highly speculative one way or another and not something needing multiple posts to go on about. Some of these 'what ifs' really amount to 'who cares' when they're un-provable hypotheticals. I know that's kind of what we do in sports, but it gets to a point pretty quickly where it becomes a circular conversation.


Ok then why even bother with the reply? Sounds like you're just going to go with the opposite take no matter what I post next. If you think someone winning a title & FMVP at 23 while putting up the numbers KD did is not on GOAT trajectory then there's nothing else to discuss really.

[Phoenix]

Ok then why even bother with the reply? Sounds like you're just going to go with the opposite take no matter what I post next. If you think someone winning a title & FMVP at 23 while putting up the numbers KD did is not on GOAT trajectory then there's nothing else to discuss really.

There's a special irony in replying to ask why bother replying when we've both reached the impasse part of the conversation.The obvious retort is why are you bothering to reply? I mean we agree that there's nothing really to discuss so are we at the 'who gets the last word' stage, or you good? Because I am.