[VIDEO] Iverson's Letter to Kobe Tribute (narrated by Iverson himself)

[Meticode]

Listening and watching this makes me realize how important the late 90s and mid-to-late 2000s NBA were to me. I dealt with a lot of personal shit in that timeframe transitioning from a kid to a young man. This era of the NBA helped me escape the those hardships if only for a couple hours to give me a mental break so I could catch my breath and tackle those challenges. I'm glad I got to witness players live on television like Jordan, Kobe, LeBron and Iverson.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH_KRAY_xBY

[1987_Lakers]

Two of the most overrated players in history.

[gengiskhan]

Two of the most overrated players in history.

this I totally agree.

Kobe, imo, is the most OVERRATED ATG if there ever was one.

AI is a lesser overrated version.

both are mirror images of each other. same versions. different height.

[tpols]

Beautiful Ode to the GOAT. :applause:

RIP Kobe.

[gengiskhan]

Beautiful Ode to the GOAT. :applause:

RIP Kobe.

stop celebrating RAPIST.

tomorrow you will have daughters too.

Imagine if they get RAPED.

Have some sympathy towards VICTIMS

[BlackMamba8]

stop celebrating RAPIST.

tomorrow you will have daughters too.

Imagine if they get RAPED.

Have some sympathy towards VICTIMS

you ok? Was in proven in court? So based off that, stop celebrating bron since he uses PEDs.... ya ***** bow down ***** bow down ****** bow down****** if you think you are tough....come meet me in person

[GOBB]

Two of the most overrated players in history.

You’re weird. Can’t help yourself being negative can you?

[Wally450]

Two of the most overrated players in history.

Add Carmelo to that list.

[ImKobe]

Two of the most overrated players in history.

Those two carried the NBA by themselves in the early 2000s.

[SouBeachTalents]

Those two carried the NBA by themselves in the early 2000s.
That's the same time Kobe was being carried by Shaq.

[Axe]

you ok? Was in proven in court? So based off that, stop celebrating bron since he uses PEDs.... ya ***** bow down ***** bow down ****** bow down****** if you think you are tough....come meet me in person
Is that you starface? :coleman:

[ImKobe]

That's the same time Kobe was being carried by Shaq.

The Kobe that was the best 4th quarter/clutch player in the 2001 Playoffs, who carried Shaq vs. their toughest opponents in the WC? The same Kobe both Shaq & Phil said was the best player in the league at the time?

[1987_Lakers]

That's the same time Kobe was being carried by Shaq.

:roll:

[gengiskhan]

That's the same time Kobe was being carried by Shaq.

"Kobe, tell me, how my a55 taste"

Shaq Really Describing how he Bred Kobe in LA (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/oXmSdA1vm3Y)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktDO_LtGSLM


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/oXmSdA1vm3Y

[GOBB]

"Kobe, tell me, how my a55 taste"

Shaq Really Describing how he Bred Kobe in LA (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/oXmSdA1vm3Y)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktDO_LtGSLM


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/oXmSdA1vm3Y

Kobe will always be ranked higher than Shaq all time. Shaq can continue with his weak jokes. Kobe will always be remembered as being better.

[gengiskhan]

Kobe will always be ranked higher than Shaq all time. Shaq can continue with his weak jokes. Kobe will always be remembered as being better.

Shaq NBA ROTY. DeadBe ?
Shaq NBA Dominant Season MVP. RapistBe?
Shaq NBA 3 x FMVP dominant. BitchBe?
Shaq 2000 NBA Season MVP + 2000 NBA Scoring Title + 2000 NBA FMVP! BeanyBe?

exactly.....thats what I thought.

Shaq clearly Top 10 GOATs, Top 8 actually. GOAT, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Russell, Shaq (8).

Kobe is Top 15 at best. LBJ #10 at best.

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe will always be ranked higher than Shaq all time. Shaq can continue with his weak jokes. Kobe will always be remembered as being better.

:oldlol:

Hell no

[1987_Lakers]

GOBB legit has one of the worst takes on this site.

"Iverson > Wade"

"Kobe > Shaq"

:oldlol:

[GOBB]

Shaq NBA ROTY. DeadBe ?
Shaq NBA Dominant Season MVP. RapistBe?
Shaq NBA 3 x FMVP dominant. BitchBe?
Shaq 2000 NBA Season MVP + 2000 NBA Scoring Title + 2000 NBA FMVP! BeanyBe?

exactly.....thats what I thought.

Shaq clearly Top 10 GOATs, Top 8 actually. GOAT, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Russell, Shaq (8).

Kobe is Top 15 at best. LBJ #10 at best.

Doesn’t matter what you think. It’s what the masses think. It’s what Kobe peers think. You don’t have to agree Kobe is over Shaq. But you can’t deny that’s Kobe is viewed more than vice versa. You can sit there and pump out stats, accolades while keeping your boner in your gym shorts. Won’t change the reality of how Kobe is perceived. And having said this doesn’t mean I feel Kobe > Shaq. But for all the nonsense said about Kobe this can’t be denied. When you listen to players speak on Shaq and Kobe? Kobe is revered more. Shaq dominance is stated but Kobe is marveled at. Pick any podcast, interview you want. It’s on to YouTube from the horses mouths.

Does this sway or change your opinion? No. Should it? No. But like i said this can’t be denied so Shaq lame ass who got so many passes for being a scumbag over the years can tell us how Kobe ass taste.

[GOBB]

GOBB legit has one of the worst takes on this site.

"Iverson > Wade"

"Kobe > Shaq"

:oldlol:

You just be talking and not comprehending. I never once said Kobe > Shaq. Show me. But like the coward you are you won’t show it. You’ll ignore like an angry girlfriend.

Iverson > Wade? I’ve made it clear you selective reading d*ckhead my bias and alliance also is with AI. And that will never be denied. You pick and choose what to read. Create a false narrative like a b*tch and when called out? Tuck your tail until the next time you want to throw lame comments. Good job.

[1987_Lakers]

You just be talking and not comprehending. I never once said Kobe > Shaq. Show me. But like the coward you are you won’t show it. You’ll ignore like an angry girlfriend.


Kobe will always be ranked higher than Shaq all time. Shaq can continue with his weak jokes. Kobe will always be remembered as being better.

How the fvck do you expect people to take that? You do this all the time, make statements like this then backtrack later on "I never said that"

Not only that, but you are completely wrong. Shaq is ranked higher on most all-time list I have seen. He's in the top 10, Kobe doesn't even make top 10.

[1987_Lakers]

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2301069

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499632-Top-50-List-Revisited

[ImKobe]

How the fvck do you expect people to take that? You do this all the time, make statements like this then backtrack later on "I never said that"

Not only that, but you are completely wrong. Shaq is ranked higher on most all-time list I have seen. He's in the top 10, Kobe doesn't even make top 10.

Yeah, only on anti-Kobe forums by edgelords who use his rape accusation as an excuse to constantly hate on the guy's career lol.

[1987_Lakers]

Yeah, only on anti-Kobe forums by edgelords who use his rape accusation as an excuse to constantly hate on the guy's career lol.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/w842ok/kobe_or_shaq_who_is_higher_in_the_alltime_list/

Every forum must be anti Kobe then.

[ImKobe]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/w842ok/kobe_or_shaq_who_is_higher_in_the_alltime_list/

Every forum must be anti Kobe then.

Any time there's a kobe-related post on r/NBA the top upvoted comments call him a rapist but ok

[1987_Lakers]

It's a conspiracy. Every major NBA forum is just anti Kobe, that's why he's ranked lower

Ok.

[GOBB]

How the fvck do you expect people to take that? You do this all the time, make statements like this then backtrack later on "I never said that"

Not only that, but you are completely wrong. Shaq is ranked higher on most all-time list I have seen. He's in the top 10, Kobe doesn't even make top 10.

Nothing wrong about what I said. You’re a “let me find Links that support my argument” whore. Since you go so much energy go on YouTube and check out podcast from present and former players discussing Kobe all time ranking. Then come back to me and report your findings. Kobe is revered by his peers. He is looked at the same way a Lil Wayne is in regards to status as an all time great. It’s literally the same thing. But yeah go grab your men’s health all time nba rankings “see you’re wrong look where Shaq is”.

[GOBB]

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2301069

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499632-Top-50-List-Revisited

https://youtu.be/p1t_BTYnJ2s?si=3UMEpU9XCJYTDNaz

https://youtu.be/AGw0mh-xS38?si=808l5lhkaeNMTANi

https://youtu.be/VvcmuUd6CHo?si=wgtlx7Qql2OaiEcw

https://youtu.be/WJOoP6s4KWc?si=uvRb88ac4pcdSbgQ

[1987_Lakers]

Nothing wrong about what I said. You’re a “let me find Links that support my argument” whore. Since you go so much energy go on YouTube and check out podcast from present and former players discussing Kobe all time ranking. Then come back to me and report your findings. Kobe is revered by his peers. He is looked at the same way a Lil Wayne is in regards to status as an all time great. It’s literally the same thing. But yeah go grab your men’s health all time nba rankings “see you’re wrong look where Shaq is”.

You got proven wrong so now you revert to "Go watch some former players podcast". :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CDmhFg0XlQ

This is the type of podcasts you want me to watch? Where a former player has Jason Kidd as his GOAT point guard? (1:40 mark)

How pathetic.

[GOBB]

Doesn’t matter what you think. It’s what the masses think. It’s what Kobe peers think. You don’t have to agree Kobe is over Shaq. But you can’t deny that’s Kobe is viewed more than vice versa. You can sit there and pump out stats, accolades while keeping your boner in your gym shorts. Won’t change the reality of how Kobe is perceived. And having said this doesn’t mean I feel Kobe > Shaq. But for all the nonsense said about Kobe this can’t be denied. When you listen to players speak on Shaq and Kobe? Kobe is revered more. Shaq dominance is stated but Kobe is marveled at. Pick any podcast, interview you want. It’s on to YouTube from the horses mouths.

Does this sway or change your opinion? No. Should it? No. But like i said this can’t be denied so Shaq lame ass who got so many passes for being a scumbag over the years can tell us how Kobe ass taste.

Selective readers in ISH. Clowns addicted to arguing wanting to be “right”, wanting to prove you wrong so bad. They are obsessed. To the point they won’t even comprehend what is said because their entire agenda is to say “you’re wrong you’re wrong I’m right”. Insecurity? Not sure how to diagnose folks here. But even when you explain it to them? The addiction of wanting so bad to be right overcomes logic. It’s weird but that’s ISH. Welcome to the board.

[1987_Lakers]

Selective readers in ISH. Clowns addicted to arguing wanting to be “right”, wanting to prove you wrong so bad. They are obsessed. To the point they won’t even comprehend what is said because their entire agenda is to say “you’re wrong you’re wrong I’m right”. Insecurity? Not sure how to diagnose folks here. But even when you explain it to them? The addiction of wanting so bad to be right overcomes logic. It’s weird but that’s ISH. Welcome to the board.

You're wrong

I'm right


Btw you really just showed a link of Jayson Tatum calling Kobe a top 5 player in history and expect me to take that serious.

Shit like this is why I say he is overrated.

[1987_Lakers]

You got proven wrong so now you revert to "Go watch some former players podcast". :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CDmhFg0XlQ

This is the type of podcasts you want me to watch? Where a former player has Jason Kidd as his GOAT point guard? (1:40 mark)

How pathetic.

And why the hell does Gil have LeBron as a point guard? I know LeBron is a playmaker, but I've never heard anyone label him a full on point guard.

These are the opinions of people that you want me to take serious??

[GOBB]

You got proven wrong so now you revert to "Go watch some former players podcast". :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CDmhFg0XlQ

This is the type of podcasts you want me to watch? Where a former player has Jason Kidd as his GOAT point guard? (1:40 mark)

How pathetic.

See this is the problem with idiots I mean sorry no need for me to insult to prove a point. The problem is this is not what YOU think or feel. You have every right to rank whomever however. You have every right to say that podcast is meaningless. What you don’t have is the ability to chance OTHERS minds and perception. I’m literally showing you Kobe is and will always be ranked over Shaq to the masses. Part and present players? Check. Fans who grew up on Kobe during/after? Check. You can post an elaborate breakdown countering it all. That isn’t the point. So while Shaq asks Kobe how his ass taste? Shaq needs to know he’s not viewed better than Kobe on all time lists by the general public.

Again I have Shaq over Kobe. But what I’m saying holds merit. I can be here all day linking you to how Kobe is viewed whereas Shaq is just called “big fella”. And you nor anyone will chance their minds and the perception.

[1987_Lakers]

See this is the problem with idiots I mean sorry no need for me to insult to prove a point. The problem is this is not what YOU think or feel. You have every right to rank whomever however. You have every right to say that podcast is meaningless. What you don’t have is the ability to chance OTHERS minds and perception. I’m literally showing you Kobe is and will always be ranked over Shaq to the masses. Part and present players? Check. Fans who grew up on Kobe during/after? Check. You can post an elaborate breakdown countering it all. That isn’t the point. So while Shaq asks Kobe how his ass taste? Shaq needs to know he’s not viewed better than Kobe on all time lists by the general public.

Again I have Shaq over Kobe. But what I’m saying holds merit. I can be here all day linking you to how Kobe is viewed whereas Shaq is just called “big fella”. And you nor anyone will chance their minds and the perception.

Hey guys, some former player ranked Jason Kidd as his GOAT point guard, we need to take his opinion serious and forget about what anyone else says. :oldlol:

[GOBB]

You're wrong

I'm right


Btw you really just showed a link of Jayson Tatum calling Kobe a top 5 player in history and expect me to take that serious.

Shit like this is why I say he is overrated.

You’re dense. Stay that way. The fact you whimpered this is why you say Kobe is overrated proves my point. Like literally.


That was easy. Thanks

[1987_Lakers]

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2301069

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499632-Top-50-List-Revisited

It's over.

Shaq > Kobe

[GOBB]

Hey guys, some former player ranked Jason Kidd as his GOAT point guard, we need to take his opinion serious and forget about what anyone else says. :oldlol:

I don’t care about Jason Kidd or where someone ranked him. Not even sure who did it. That has nothing to do with the masses when it comes to Kobe Bryant. Like I said you’re so addicted to wanting to be right. You don’t talk to listen you talk to respond.

Get over yourself homie.

[1987_Lakers]

I don’t care about Jason Kidd or where someone ranked him. Not even sure who did it. That has nothing to do with the masses when it comes to Kobe Bryant. Like I said you’re so addicted to wanting to be right. You don’t talk to listen you talk to respond.

Get over yourself homie.

Casuals will always have Kobe ahead of Shaq

Real fans know Shaq is better.

[GOBB]

It's over.

Shaq > Kobe

What are you going to show people your phone when they say Kobe is better than Shaq?

“Check these links out. Here I’ll send them to you…” hilarious

[1987_Lakers]

What are you going to show people your phone when they say Kobe is better than Shaq?

“Check these links out. Here I’ll send them to you…” hilarious

Not as cringe as you linking someone a former players podcast where one of them has Jason Kidd as his GOAT PG

[GOBB]

Not as cringe as you linking someone a former players podcast where one of them has Jason Kidd as his GOAT PG

Is that what you got out of that? Weird but normal in your case.

You never played hoops at a high level. You’re just a fan who watches and feels entitled they know more than the folks that actually played not only at every level but the highest level of it all. And in your mind “that doesn’t mean they can be right, not sound ridiculous etc etc” which is true. But what’s your excuse for thinking your opinion is any more superior because you spent more time on your butt than actually playing the game you spend all day arguing/discussing? But I know lost in this translation will be “their words isn’t the end all be all” as if that’s what’s being said here. Nah I’m just merely pointing out you think holds more merit than folks that actually played because your opinion differs from theirs lol

You fans got to get over yourselves sometimes man. It’s ok to agree to disagree.

[1987_Lakers]

We also have to point out a lot of former NBA players don’t know what they are talking about. We literally saw arguably the best player ever run a franchise to the ground for 20 years in Charlotte. We see Shaq and Barkley make dumb statements all the time. I literally just saw a vid of a former player call Jason Kidd the GOAT PG. more often than not former players fail when it comes to coaching, evaluating players. Then they are exceptions like Jerry West who was a master at it.

[GOBB]

We also have to point out a lot of former NBA players don’t know what they are talking about. We literally saw arguably the best player ever run a franchise to the ground for 20 years in Charlotte. We see Shaq and Barkley make dumb statements all the time. I literally just saw a vid of a former player call Jason Kidd the GOAT PG. more often than not former players fail when it comes to coaching, evaluating players. Then they are exceptions like Jerry West who was a master at it.

You wouldn’t be able to run an NBA franchise. You’d fail. Be a miracle if you didn’t. A Netflix documentary no less.

[1987_Lakers]

You wouldn’t be able to run an NBA franchise. You’d fail. Be a miracle if you didn’t. A Netflix documentary no less.

I would be the GOAT

[SouBeachTalents]

Is that what you got out of that? Weird but normal in your case.

You never played hoops at a high level. You’re just a fan who watches and feels entitled they know more than the folks that actually played not only at every level but the highest level of it all. And in your mind “that doesn’t mean they can be right, not sound ridiculous etc etc” which is true. But what’s your excuse for thinking your opinion is any more superior because you spent more time on your butt than actually playing the game you spend all day arguing/discussing? But I know lost in this translation will be “their words isn’t the end all be all” as if that’s what’s being said here. Nah I’m just merely pointing out you think holds more merit than folks that actually played because your opinion differs from theirs lol

You fans got to get over yourselves sometimes man. It’s ok to agree to disagree.
Believing players automatically are more knowledgeable than fans is just an appeal to authority. Players have proven conclusively to have some absolutely horrendous takes, I'm not giving those validity just because they used to play. I'll always care more about the substance of the argument than the source it comes from.

Look at how the player widely considered the GOAT analyzes players, this was his breakdown when asked who's better between LeBron & Kobe.


There's something about 5 that beats 3

He gave the same answer my 9 year old nephew would've come up with. Am I really supposed to give that objectively shitty take more credibility than a nuanced, detailed breakdown by someone else just because he used to play?

[Meticode]

Casuals will always have Kobe ahead of Shaq

Real fans know Shaq is better.

I don't usually get into rankings discussions, but what's your personal reasoning for having Shaq over Kobe? I personally don't, but I'm curious what your argument is? They're both Top 10 players to me and Shaq is just below Kobe.

-Kobe has more rings and won more rings without Shaq vs Shaq without Kobe.
-Kobe is 4th all-time scoring, Shaq is 9th
-Kobe has 12 All-Defense Teams, Shaq has 3
-Kobe has 15 All-NBA, Shaq has 14 (Kobe 11 1st, Shaq 8 1st)
-Kobe has 18 all-star games, Shaq has 15
-Kobe has more playoff points, assists, steals and less turnovers, Shaq has more blocks, rebounds and turnovers
-Kobe has 2 Gold Medals, Shaq has 1 gold medal
-Both have 1 MVP
-Shaq has 3 FMVP, Kobe as 2 FMVP
-Kobe is universally agreed to be the 2nd best shooting guard of all time, Shaq isn't universally agreed to be the 2nd best center of all time, he's in the Top 5 though.

...are there any arguments in Shaq's favor minus when him and Kobe played together he won all the FMVP, he was the most unstoppable center of all-time, and he has more blocks and rebounds in his career?

[SouBeachTalents]

I don't usually get into rankings discussions, but what's your personal reasoning for having Shaq over Kobe? I personally don't, but I'm curious what you're argument is? They're both Top 10 players to me and Shaq is just below Kobe.

-Kobe has more rings and won more rings without Shaq vs Shaq without Kobe.
-Kobe is 4th all-time scoring, Shaq is 9th
-Kobe has 12 All-Defense Teams, Shaq has 3
-Kobe is the 2nd best shooting guard of all-time.
-Kobe has 15 All-NBA, Shaq has 14 (Kobe 11 1st, Shaq 8 1st)
-Kobe has 18 all-star games, Shaq has 15
-Kobe has more playoff points, assists, steals and less turnovers, Shaq has more blocks, rebounds and turnovers
-Kobe has 2 Gold Medals, Shaq has 1 gold medal
-Both have 1 MVP
-Shaq has 3 FMVP, Kobe as 2 FMVP
-Kobe is universally agreed to be the 2nd best shooting guard of all time, Shaq isn't universally agreed to be the 2nd best center of all time, he's in the Top 5 though.
-Shaq isn't the 2nd best center of all time.
The bolded are frankly shitty arguments. Titles won as your teams best player are infinitely more important the titles won overall. Kobe got outscored 38-16 in the Finals for one of his rings, why would I put that into consideration for who should be ranked higher.

The won more titles without is imo more due to Shaq playing with Kobe for 8 years of his absolute prime, while Kobe had nearly a decade of All-NBA caliber years to win without Shaq, roughly double the time Shaq did without Kobe.

Kobe' All-Defensive Teams are a known sham, that would indicate he was literally the greatest perimeter defender of all time, which is not even close to being the case.

If Shaq happened to play on more Olympic Teams, he would've won more Gold Medals. Melo has 3, which should tell you how much value we should place on those.

The last one is truly the worst argument, it's completely arbitrary based on other players in history who happened to play their position. Do you see Kobe ever ranked ahead of Kareem/Wilt/Russell? Of course not, which means he wouldn't be top 2 at his position if he happened to play center. Do you ever see West or Wade ranked ahead of Shaq? Of course not, which means Shaq would've been top 2 at his position if he happened to play SG.

I'm not saying you couldn't make an argument for Kobe being ranked higher, but the bolded are just really bad ways to go about it.

[GOBB]

Believing players automatically are more knowledgeable than fans is just an appeal to authority. Players have proven conclusively to have some absolutely horrendous takes, I'm not giving those validity just because they used to play. I'll always care more about the substance of the argument than the source it comes from.

Look at how the player widely considered the GOAT analyzes players, this was his breakdown when asked who's better between LeBron & Kobe.



He gave the same answer my 9 year old nephew would've come up with. Am I really supposed to give that objectively shitty take more credibility than a nuanced, detailed breakdown by someone else just because he used to play?

If MJ was a member of ISH he would give an in depth breakdown to why Kobe is better than Bron in his eyes. I think it’s overly critical over a subjective response because you expected more in the answer. That’s why MJ is where he is and we are here having this convo.

[1987_Lakers]

If MJ was a member of ISH he would give an in depth breakdown to why Kobe is better than Bron in his eyes. I think it’s overly critical over a subjective response because you expected more in the answer. That’s why MJ is where he is and we are here having this convo.
We are talking about the same guy who said he would guard LeBron by making him go left while not realizing LeBron was one of the best players at driving/finishing left.

[red1]

this was beautiful


coming from a vince carter and lebron guy aka their rivals

[GOBB]

We are talking about the same guy who said he would guard LeBron by making him go left while not realizing LeBron was one of the best players at driving/finishing left.


The announcers gush about LeBron, mentioning him in the same sentence with Jordan, who hears every word. Those words have an effect on him. He stares at the TV and points out a flaw in LeBron's game.
"I study him," he says.

When LeBron goes right, he usually drives; when he goes left, he usually shoots a jumper. It has to do with his mechanics and how he loads the ball for release. "So if I have to guard him," Jordan says, "I'm gonna push him left so nine times out of 10, he's gonna shoot a jump shot. If he goes right, he's going to the hole and I can't stop him. So I ain't letting him go right."
For the rest of the game, when LeBron gets the ball and starts his move, Jordan will call out some variation of "drive" or "shoot."


MJ is banking on James being more comfortable pulling up for jumpers going left vs going right where he’s attacking the rim. And MJ feels that’s unstoppable. He rather take his chances on Bron pulling up. He rather dictate that than vice versa. Easier said than done clearly. But here is a basketball player considered for more than physical gifts but mental. This is a guy who studies the game. This is a guy who has implemented what he has said in real time during games vs other great players. But ahhhh yes let’s be the typical average fan who knows more/knows it all. Who has never been in situations like this. Who has never had to manipulate/dictate a players tendencies during a game. Who simply regurgitates data someone else who never played has written. Then take that and say MJ doesn’t know what he’s talking about. The sheer audacity of the average joe bag of doughnuts. Why are you not in coaching sir? Why are you not coaching at a high level on how to defend LeBron James and others? Because you have it ALL figured out moreso than Michael Jordan who was just good at jumping dribbling and scoring. Not much else. And before you leave us you defensive savant you? Drop that mofo realgm thread to further illustrate your genius. As we all collectively sit here and say wow 1987_lakers knows how to guard LeBron James better than MJ. Once again the fan 1 ups the professional without having played. Let’s go boys!


But in a perfect world a fan would simply counter MJ and said I may explore defending him the opposite way and take my chances there instead. And how you feel the idea of forcing him less and dictating he shoots more jumpers than drives may be difficult to pull off. And depending what years we are talking about Bron matter because early bron played different as years progressed and he improved. But nonetheless this all proves how hard it is to guard Bron. That’s what a sensible fan would do. But this ain’t a perfect world so therefore? Let’s go back to option A and question Jordan’s method in guarding LeBron and and chuckle at the idea. While questioning his knowledge which then opens up discussion of him running a franchise.


You fans are full of yourselves. But this messageboard or internet is your playground. Be great in what it is you do….

[Meticode]

The bolded are frankly shitty arguments. Titles won as your teams best player are infinitely more important the titles won overall. Kobe got outscored 38-16 in the Finals for one of his rings, why would I put that into consideration for who should be ranked higher.

The won more titles without is imo more due to Shaq playing with Kobe for 8 years of his absolute prime, while Kobe had nearly a decade of All-NBA caliber years to win without Shaq, roughly double the time Shaq did without Kobe.

Kobe' All-Defensive Teams are a known sham, that would indicate he was literally the greatest perimeter defender of all time, which is not even close to being the case.

If Shaq happened to play on more Olympic Teams, he would've won more Gold Medals. Melo has 3, which should tell you how much value we should place on those.

The last one is truly the worst argument, it's completely arbitrary based on other players in history who happened to play their position. Do you see Kobe ever ranked ahead of Kareem/Wilt/Russell? Of course not, which means he wouldn't be top 2 at his position if he happened to play center. Do you ever see West or Wade ranked ahead of Shaq? Of course not, which means Shaq would've been top 2 at his position if he happened to play SG.

I'm not saying you couldn't make an argument for Kobe being ranked higher, but the bolded are just really bad ways to go about it.

Okay. Why should Shaq be ranked higher. Thanks for replying even tough it wasn't meant for you.

[1987_Lakers]

Okay. Why should Shaq be ranked higher. Thanks for replying even tough it wasn't meant for you.

For me it's his peak. You can make a strong case for Shaq having a top 3-5 peak in NBA history

This is a guy who was having Finals averages of 38/17/2/3 in 2000. 33/16/5/3 in 2001. 36/12/4/3 in 2002.

Kobe simply wasn't on that level. I also believe he didn't transform teams the way Shaq did. Past prime Shaq instantly made Miami a title contender in his first season there when Wade hadn't reached his prime yet.

Lakers record without Shaq from 2001-2004: 24-29
Lakers record without Kobe from 2001-2004: 21-12

I left off 2000 because Kobe wasn't in his prime yet, but when both players were in their prime you could see Shaq was the most valuable player on that team by far.

For what it's worth the Lakers were 6-3 without Kobe from 2008-2010, when the Lakers made the Finals 3 years in a row.

[Meticode]

For me it's his peak. You can make a strong case for Shaq having a top 3-5 peak in NBA history

This is a guy who was having Finals averages of 38/17/2/3 in 2000. 33/16/5/3 in 2001. 36/12/4/3 in 2002.

Kobe simply wasn't on that level. I also believe he didn't transform teams the way Shaq did. Past prime Shaq instantly made Miami a title contender in his first season there when Wade hadn't reached his prime yet.

Lakers record without Shaq from 2001-2004: 24-29
Lakers record without Kobe from 2001-2004: 21-12

I left off 2000 because Kobe wasn't in his prime yet, but when both players were in their prime you could see Shaq was the most valuable player on that team by far.

For what it's worth the Lakers were 6-3 without Kobe from 2008-2010, when the Lakers made the Finals 3 years in a row.

Thanks for your reply and thoughts. I appreciate it.

[gengiskhan]

I don't usually get into rankings discussions, but what's your personal reasoning for having Shaq over Kobe? I personally don't, but I'm curious what your argument is? They're both Top 10 players to me and Shaq is just below Kobe.

-Kobe has more rings and won more rings without Shaq vs Shaq without Kobe.
-Kobe is 4th all-time scoring, Shaq is 9th
-Kobe has 12 All-Defense Teams, Shaq has 3
-Kobe has 15 All-NBA, Shaq has 14 (Kobe 11 1st, Shaq 8 1st)
-Kobe has 18 all-star games, Shaq has 15
-Kobe has more playoff points, assists, steals and less turnovers, Shaq has more blocks, rebounds and turnovers
-Kobe has 2 Gold Medals, Shaq has 1 gold medal
-Both have 1 MVP
-Shaq has 3 FMVP, Kobe as 2 FMVP
-Kobe is universally agreed to be the 2nd best shooting guard of all time, Shaq isn't universally agreed to be the 2nd best center of all time, he's in the Top 5 though.

...are there any arguments in Shaq's favor minus when him and Kobe played together he won all the FMVP, he was the most unstoppable center of all-time, and he has more blocks and rebounds in his career?

bold are all dumb and stupid arguements.

how easy it is to get to All Defensive 1st and 2nd teams as SG!. There is basically ZERO competition. Kobe literally collected All Defensive teams first as a LAL, which is favored and entitled votes got him. 2nd he never CONFIRMED them with steals top 3 finishes or steals titles or 200/100 club. All Kobe 1st D team selections are a joke. Some where literally robbed from Wade because latter is HEAT not an LAL.

SHAQ dont just have 3 FMVPs. He won them DOMINANTLY. 3 Straight. the best since 1991-1993 GOAT FMVPs.
Kobe's 2010 FMVP is highly questionable. belongs to Gasol. 6/24 25%FG 2010 Game 7 is the confirmation of this.
Kobe only has 1 real weak FMVP against garbage 2009 finalist, ORL. or else, Kobe only sabotaged Shaq's 2004 FMVP and Choked away 2008 FMVP.

[jstern]

Is that you starface? :coleman:

Interesting that you're asking someone if they're starface, aka Neal Romer.

[ImKobe]

For me it's his peak. You can make a strong case for Shaq having a top 3-5 peak in NBA history

This is a guy who was having Finals averages of 38/17/2/3 in 2000. 33/16/5/3 in 2001. 36/12/4/3 in 2002.

Kobe simply wasn't on that level. I also believe he didn't transform teams the way Shaq did. Past prime Shaq instantly made Miami a title contender in his first season there when Wade hadn't reached his prime yet.

Lakers record without Shaq from 2001-2004: 24-29
Lakers record without Kobe from 2001-2004: 21-12

I left off 2000 because Kobe wasn't in his prime yet, but when both players were in their prime you could see Shaq was the most valuable player on that team by far.

For what it's worth the Lakers were 6-3 without Kobe from 2008-2010, when the Lakers made the Finals 3 years in a row.

Lol all that and Lakers closed out two pivotal Finals road games with Shaq fouled out (2000 Game 4, 2001 Game 3), and came back on the road against the Spurs in 2001 in Game 2 to basically shut the door on the series with Shaq playing like shit and in foul trouble as well. Kobe wasn't even Kobe yet and was by far the best player on the Lakers in their most important game of the 3-Peat vs Portland in Game 7.

Shaq for years put up dominant numbers in the POs and got swept out of them, that's before KB became the most clutch player in the league and carried them in 4th quarters.

Can't have a top 3-5 peak and be a liability in clutch situations like Shaq was in his prime. Being able to close games is part of the equation and he didn't really have that part. Needed an ATG perimeter player to get him the ball and hit the big shots.

[1987_Lakers]

Can't have a top 3-5 peak and be a liability in clutch situations like Shaq was in his prime. Being able to close games is part of the equation and he didn't really have that part. Needed an ATG perimeter player to get him the ball and hit the big shots.

Speaking of being a liability in the clutch



Here are Kobe's finals stats

2000 - 15.6 ppg | 39 fg%

2001 - 24 ppg | 41.5 fg% | 50 TS%

2002 - 27 ppg | 51 fg% | 62 TS%

2004 - 23 ppg | 38 fg% | 46 TS%

2008 - 26 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 50.5 TS%

2009 - 32 ppg | 43 fg% | 52.5 TS%

2010 - 29 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 52.8 TS%



Here are Kobe's game 7 stats.

44.2 MPG

22.2 points

FG 38.9%

FT 67.3%

8 RPG

5 APG

1 SPG

1.3 BPG






Here are Kobe's stats when facing elimination.


22.3 PPG

5.8 RPG

3.5 APG

1.3 SPG

1.3 BPG

on a 50.3 TS

and his teams went 9-10 in those games.

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4seP2wD_K4&t

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeRrn1Kgj2o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n3SEJnKQKc

Alot of Lakers game winners in the playoffs came off a Kobe brick.

[ImKobe]

Speaking of being a liability in the clutch


Any time you reply with these I know I've won the argument.

[1987_Lakers]

Any time you reply with these I know I've won the argument.

I know I have won because it hurts you so much to read it that you don't even include it in my quote.

You purposely cut it out.

Those stats are major stains to his legacy that many choose to ignore.

And he had the worst game 7 Finals performance ever for a superstar.